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Thread #1: 6 Months of MLC
Thread #2: Learning how to stand, hope, and keep moving
Quick recap: H BD in June 2019, started DBing a couple weeks after that. M 10 years, T 16. Still roommates. No apparent OW, but who knows.

Thank you, DnJ, Believe6, and PLC for the support. Believe, I will stop by your thread soon. I haven't had as much time to be here this week, and, honestly, these last few days I've felt like I'm hanging by a thread. Instead of posting when I can reflect and as a way to reflect, I'm posting because I'm losing it and need somewhere to vent. I feel guilty because I haven't been catching up on other threads either.

DnJ, I know I need to set this boundary with H, and I know I'd rather avoid it. It's like suddenly I'm living with a roommate who I never would have thought compatible in an interview. I wouldn't have to confront a roommate about this, because I never would have agreed to live with them in the first place--it's like I've been assigned someone problematic in college again. This is total alien H. It's so disorienting, and the pandemic news is disorienting enough. I am riding huge waves of anger, fear, hurt, sadness and find my center for only brief slices of time. I've been able to disconnect from H but now that he's here all the time, I'm forced to witness the work version of H and the version of H he is with his friends. I miss the days when all of that took place outside the house!

He joked with me today while he worked from home. He was friendly. After work, he immediately started another group call with his friends. Over an hour. Playing trivia games together. I went for a walk even though I had a headache, just to get away. I came back, and he was still on the call. Then he left to get beer. Then back and another group call with games has started up. I feel like I'm going crazy. Is this my life now? H just in his room on the phone all evening? I put headphones on but can still hear him. I crave quiet. Alone time.

It seems that since he can't go out with these people any longer after work, he has this instead. He's not able to be alone with himself for a night. With his thoughts. They're not talking much about how their lives have been turned upside down by the pandemic or about the world; they're playing games. Drinking buddies.

I thought H had matured a little since BD, but now I see that I was probably wrong. He may have regained some control of his drinking, but he's still in this bubble with these people who he considers real friends. They appreciate him. He is happy. Nothing is wrong. They help distract him. It's just I get to see how they interact now, which I'd rather not.

I am trying to figure out how to comfort and protect myself in this new situation. Today was the first full day of it, and it feels like it's been weeks. It's hard for me to imagine more than a week of this. I'm exhausted. Do I take a cue from the way H was after BD and just start wearing my own headphones all the time? I don't feel like interacting with him. I want to pretend he is not here. I want to focus on myself. I'd gotten to the point before where I only thought about our R now and then during the day. Now that he's 100% here, it's at the top of my mind, which starts the cycle of: He doesn't seem to care about me at all, I just happen to be here --> He really doesn't love me --> Then why is he still here? Why hasn't he filed? How long will this go on? How will I get through this? Day by day, minute by minute. But I worry I will blow up at him at some point--either cry or scream, because I'm so on edge, so frustrated with the way he's acting.

VENT VENT VENT. Thank you. No one else is awake at this time for me to text, even though it's not that late here yet.


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Originally Posted by cardinal
I am trying to figure out how to comfort and protect myself in this new situation. Today was the first full day of it, and it feels like it's been weeks. It's hard for me to imagine more than a week of this. I'm exhausted. Do I take a cue from the way H was after BD and just start wearing my own headphones all the time? I don't feel like interacting with him. I want to pretend he is not here. I want to focus on myself.


I should also say I want to be careful here, because right now I'm also motivated by a desire to give H the cold shoulder, to turn away, to shut down.


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And also--the post that keeps going--I am not comfortable with trying to set roommate type agreements right now because I'm not able to work while this shelter in place stuff is all going on, so I'm no longer bringing in much money at all. I feel like H has all the power here. Our finances are not split, so this means I couldn't pay rent or buy groceries without him. I feel pretty vulnerable in that respect.


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Hello cardinal

Vent away!

I do read all your posts. Unfortunately this is not texting, so the cadence of conversation is delayed sometimes.

You put it very well. H is a roommate you would not have chosen.

It’s amazing how they become the opposite, isn’t it? Like an alien took over their body. It is so disorienting!

All the waves of emotions you’re riding are all perfectly normal. Anger, fear, hurt, sadness - it takes time to process these. Grief takes time.

I found rationalizing helps. Our intellect and physical actions are truly the only things is our direct control. Emotions and beliefs are influenced - by intellect and action. (Ok a little simplified but close enough)

Your understanding, your logic, your reason does help. Mental assertiveness - sword and shield. We are not unarmed in this.

Intellect is sans emotions. While in your intellectual car, you have emotional peace and indifference. These times influence your emotional state; uncouple your reactions from H.

Understanding is intellect. Acceptance is emotional. Acceptance is emotional understanding.

Of course one cannot stay in their intellectual car forever. One must feel their emotions. Allow yourself to feel what you feel. Let it wash over you - not rule you. Remember you influence your emotions. They come from within you, therefore you can affect them.

Being accurate in thought and heart is a good method towards detachment. Seeing things as they really are.

Originally Posted by cardinal
I know I need to set this boundary with H, and I know feel I'd rather avoid it.

Boundaries are for you. For your emotional protection and peace of mind.

You know the benefit of a boundary. See that is not intellect that would rather avoid it. No, your reason knows the value of it, it’s your emotions that hinder you. Fear.

Tell me what you fear. And in doing so, you will tell yourself. The first step in letting go.

Rationalizing leads to detachment. See the things you think and the things you feel.

You are doing really good. Hang in there. Day by day, and even minute by minute when needed. (((Hugs)))

DnJ


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He's still on the phone. Going on two hours now. More wine. Maybe edibles. Very giggly. Now I think he's talking to a friend I know. I feel so alone that I can't talk to him. That he doesn't want to talk to me. I want to scream, but I can't. I feel like a prisoner in my own home.

Originally Posted by DnJ
You know the benefit of a boundary. See that is not intellect that would rather avoid it. No, your reason knows the value of it, it’s your emotions that hinder you. Fear.

Tell me what you fear. And in doing so, you will tell yourself. The first step in letting go.


I am afraid that he'll leave me alone somehow--split our finances if he doesn't move out, and I have no money. I wouldn't be able to pay rent here or anywhere without income right now. I don't think my job will return for weeks, maybe months. I am afraid he thinks of me as someone he's just supporting now, how annoying. He's waiting for me to get fed up and yell at him so I'm the bad guy. I'm also afraid that he'll just ignore my boundary. I don't know how likely this is. But I couldn't enforce it.


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Fear that there is no hope for us in the open-ended future—I’ve lost my ability to hope. All this time I’ve made note of little positive exchanges we’ve had, but what are these to the hours and hours he’s spent with basically anyone else but me since BD? He’s still on the phone and I’m done crying, so I’ll probably fall asleep soon. But I find myself wanting to listen just to hear stories of what he’s been up to lately. A little glimpse into the life of this person who has made his thoughts and feelings a mystery to me. What are all the hours he’s spending with these people to the hours we spent building a life together?


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I wish I would have seen your post last night. I was still up.

I totally get the thoughts you have about when at work you don’t think much about the situation. Same here. I do have some distraction with our daughter home, but not much. Where before he would be in and out and I didn’t even give it a thought anymore, I am now so aware of how much he can’t sit still at home.

Thankfully, he is not chatty on the phone like your H is, but I hear constant text pings. Last night, he came home from work, went into the bedroom, stayed there until 7:45 then came into the den to go to bed. 7:45! The suns barely gone down. He’s bored. It’s hard to navigate.

Also, today is our 28th wedding anniversary. We are currently about seven weeks away from the anniversary of the BD. I never thought I’d be here a year later like this. Last year, we had a nice dinner out, just the two of us.

I have a feeling I will be here more as the days go by.

See you soon.

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Good Morning cardinal

Originally Posted by cardinal
Fear that there is no hope for us in the open-ended future—I’ve lost my ability to hope.

Originally Posted by DnJ
Don’t let anyone take away your hope. And don’t worry your hope, like beliefs, does change into something self-affirming and reinforcing; a slightly different version, yet the same intent.

Don’t let anyone, even you and your fear, take away your hope.

Hope does alter as I said. Becomes a belief, a way of life. Seeing the all possibilities and choosing to live towards the good ones while being prepared for the less desirable ones.

You have not lost the ability to hope, it just feels like it for right now. And the focus of your hope and desires is changing a little. All really good things. Detached and indifferent with a good helping of compassion.


Originally Posted by cardinal
I'm exhausted. Do I take a cue from the way H was after BD and just start wearing my own headphones all the time? I don't feel like interacting with him. I want to pretend he is not here. I want to focus on myself. I'd gotten to the point before where I only thought about our R now and then during the day. Now that he's 100% here, it's at the top of my mind, which starts the cycle of: He doesn't seem to care about me at all, I just happen to be here --> He really doesn't love me --> Then why is he still here? Why hasn't he filed? How long will this go on? How will I get through this? Day by day, minute by minute. But I worry I will blow up at him at some point--either cry or scream, because I'm so on edge, so frustrated with the way he's acting.

Yes. Living with a MLCer can be exhausting. Put your focus back onto yourself, your life, your desires (and not desires about R, M or someone else). Let him be. Let him live on his own in your house. It’s like a teenage kid. Let them be alone in their room, on their phone, headphones cranked up, doing whatever it is they do. You might see them at meal time once in a while, or not. smile Then one day they grew up and speak to you again. It’s weird and normal; and MLCers are just big, rebellious, teenagers - like times 10.


Originally Posted by cardinal
I should also say I want to be careful here, because right now I'm also motivated by a desire to give H the cold shoulder, to turn away, to shut down.

There is a difference between cold shoulder and indifference. Cold shoulder has lots of feeling attached to it. Bitter feelings. Choose better not bitter. Seek indifference with compassion. It’s not shutting down, far from it. It’s living fully for you.


Originally Posted by cardinal
I am not comfortable with trying to set roommate type agreements right now because I'm not able to work while this shelter in place stuff is all going on, so I'm no longer bringing in much money at all. I feel like H has all the power here. Our finances are not split, so this means I couldn't pay rent or buy groceries without him. I feel pretty vulnerable in that respect.

This is driven by your fear. H being around all the time right now has triggered your fear. That feeling of vulnerability.

The loss of control; a pretty common fear. And one I have had many conversations about this week with people regarding the current state of the world. Seeing things happen beyond our control triggers something. People react. Primal responses, hidden emotions, driven by fears of death, pain, etc. Rationalizing uncouples the emotion from the possible future, and ceases the reactions. One find emotional understanding which is acceptance.


Originally Posted by cardinal
I am afraid that he'll leave me alone somehow--split our finances if he doesn't move out, and I have no money. I wouldn't be able to pay rent here or anywhere without income right now. I don't think my job will return for weeks, maybe months. I am afraid he thinks of me as someone he's just supporting now, how annoying. He's waiting for me to get fed up and yell at him so I'm the bad guy. I'm also afraid that he'll just ignore my boundary. I don't know how likely this is. But I couldn't enforce it.

All kinds of possibilities have stirred up. Where did you put the more positive ones? Where did you put your hope?

Let’s rationalize some of this together, if that’s ok.

Fear is irrational and real. It is valid. It needs to be acknowledged.

You fear H will leave you alone somehow, and split the finances, leave you without money, and yet not move out. You fear he sees you as someone he is just financially supporting, and becoming more annoyed. Then you can’t pay rent, food, and so on.

When is the rent due? End of the month? Whatever the date - it is not tomorrow. The rent will get paid and you have a month. This is not as dire as you feel it is. I’m not arguing your feelings, for they are true. We are rationalizing thoughts to influence your feelings. Hard to do, people tend to get defensive, even to themselves, when their feelings are being altered. Our automatic response is to reject this effort and rebel against it.

You’ve seen a lawyer (I think you did). You know your rights. You know best case, worst case, and most likely case of a separation / divorce. You will not be left penniless.

Some of the first advice is to let the MLCer do the heavy lifting. Let them push for a divorce or separating assets. Unless you need financial protection and security. Are you needing financial security? I can see you feel that way. How close do you think are to needed it.

Now, rationally, you need security. Half of everything is your’s. You can open an account, in your name only, and transfer half of all joint accounts over to you. That will help alleviate the concern of him doing something to split up assets. It is good advice and hard to put into practice. It kind of feels like giving up. Think business-like. What do you think you should do? Not feel like you should do?

Your job is weeks, maybe months away. True. A valid and wise view. For you sanity and protection you might want to seek some security. Again you’ve spoken to L. You have information. It’s your choice when you want to use it.

Don’t wait out of fear. Don’t act out of fear. Rationally think about this.

I do remember where you are right now. (((cardinal))) I was so lost, frustrated, scared - I couldn’t hardly think straight. So, my personally view knowing only what I know from reading here, get financial protection and security for yourself.

We don’t want to make decisions based solely on feelings. And we don’t want to dismiss our feelings, for they are valid and sometimes precursors to which our thoughts haven’t yet seen.

The fear of all this works against you for any boundaries. Please do not remain powerless. And that is more internal, than having a separate account. Fear robs us of our strength and power. You, my dear girl, are worthy, and strong. Take control of what you can control - you.

Strengthen, power, hope - no one get to takes those from you! They can’t! We just lose them for a while.

As to boundaries. They are for you. They are not to modify H. Nor to punish H. They are for your sanity - emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual health. Boundaries are clear definitions of behaviour you don’t accept. The enforcement is what you will do when confronted with this behaviour. It is not what he has to do.

You cannot make H do anything. You can’t make anyone do anything. You only control you. They have to want to change their behaviour.

H will test your boundaries, your resolve. Teenagers do that. And it is aggravating. We usually end up just nagging, which of course has less then stellar results. Dog training technics are better - reward good behaviour and ignore the negative. People, and dogs, want/need acknowledgement, want/need feedback, want/need attention - even if it is for poor behaviour.

Don’t let H push your buttons. You can have a boundary with out saying a word.

Focus on you.

Get security - in whatever form that takes.

You are a strong and worthy person. Don’t lose sight of her.

Don’t let anyone take away your hope.

DnJ


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HI

Its a difficult time right now and with a live in MLCer, it is also extremely hard..
Everything your saying and feeling is valid and I would continue as you are
venting, going for walks and or doing things that ground and center you

Good days, bad days
We have all had those same fears about money

I remember saying to my friend, well worst comes to worst Ill work at like Macy"s and I accepted that

little did I know what the universe would open up for me as far as work goes

You are doing so good, you are trying to painfully walk through an unbearable loss and situation
during a time in our lives of uncertainty

one step at a time
one breath at a time
one prayer...

you r stronger than u know
not running, not drinking, not ...
your are courageous
and truly powerful and will get through this as we all have

This is just one step in the journey..Eventually the journey at least this painful piece will be complete
and all things fall into place for your best even though you cant see it all now

Trust


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PLC, I wish my H would turn in early! Ha. I'm exhausted this morning and couldn't go back to sleep once I woke up. I'm wishing you peace and love for yourself on this day. Anniversaries are hard. Do you have any activities planned for you or your daughter? I'm hoping to get outside and do some gardening.

DnJ, you are right that my rational thinking ability is near nil at this moment. Please bear with me. When I don't sleep enough, I know everything looks worse than it is, too. I am trying to recognize that and want to lead off by saying I also recognize I'm operating on the assumption that things will only get worse with H home all the time, but I've only made it through one day of this. It seems likely there will be many more days ahead. At least three weeks, according to our order, but I'm sure more. There could be better days ahead. H could settle into a better routine.

And I assume it will get easier to become indifferent to his phonecalls to others, even though right now they make me feel helpless, angry, sad, pessimistic, so many overwhelming feelings that I'm having trouble sitting with and uncoupling. I think the center of my anger and how it relates to the calls is that I can't understand, no matter how much I read or try to rationalize, how he could suddenly drop me as a friend and be okay with it at BD. I know I've said that before. I see it's still bothering me. Rationally: it was not sudden, he went through a process I was not aware of, but from my perspective it is a flipped switch, and I'm not able to fully understand it and so make peace with it. He doesn't love me, he wants a D, those things are bad enough, but okay. But also he's a different person who acts like we are acquaintances most of the time, not people with a whole history?

I'm back to projecting into the future. What worries me is how angry this still makes me. How much I still want to understand how he could stop being friends with me, why it's better to spend hours playing games on the phone with a bunch of drinking buddies than talk to me. I am having a very hard time finding any of the compassion I've worked on building for him.

I try: it's easier for him to talk to them because there is no long history there. They only know him as he is now. But he was also talking to a friend I knew at the end of the night, I think, so I don't know how to rationalize that. Too hard to talk to me because it brings up old feelings/memories? Gotta keep a distance on that part of his life?

I think I just want a hint that he's actually affected by what's going on with us or what's going on in the world right now, that he's struggling with something. That would help me summon compassion again.

As for the financial security part, rent will be paid next month, there is money in our account today and I can buy groceries. I know other people don't even have that security right now. But it is in my best interest for our account not to be split, even moreso now that I don't have income I can rely on. Worst case, even with support payments, I could not pay rent anywhere or buy groceries right now. That is the reality. So protecting myself involves hoping all of that stays status quo. Before it was just until I could get a better job, and I could make it work in the meantime if I had to. Now I could not make it work in the meantime.

Originally Posted by DnJ
.
The fear of all this works against you for any boundaries. Please do not remain powerless. And that is more internal, than having a separate account. Fear robs us of our strength and power. You, my dear girl, are worthy, and strong. Take control of what you can control - you.

Strengthen, power, hope - no one get to takes those from you! They can’t! We just lose them for a while.

As to boundaries. They are for you. They are not to modify H. Nor to punish H. They are for your sanity - emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual health. Boundaries are clear definitions of behaviour you don’t accept. The enforcement is what you will do when confronted with this behaviour. It is not what he has to do.


I struggle with this particular fear--of not being able to afford housing or food--because it may not be something I need to devote my time to worrying about at this moment, since there is nothing I can do about the pandemic, but it is a fear that is not irrational. I don't actually believe H would split things up suddenly or leave me with nothing. None of his behavior has indicated that. But it's the fact that I am not self-sufficient right now that I am not happy with. (The internal part.) I don't like the thought of relying on H or H feeling like I am relying on him financially. But it is just the truth of the situation right now that I am. Many people are struggling financially right now. It just is.

Originally Posted by DnJ


You cannot make H do anything. You can’t make anyone do anything. You only control you. They have to want to change their behaviour.

H will test your boundaries, your resolve. Teenagers do that. And it is aggravating. We usually end up just nagging, which of course has less then stellar results. Dog training technics are better - reward good behaviour and ignore the negative. People, and dogs, want/need acknowledgement, want/need feedback, want/need attention - even if it is for poor behaviour.

Don’t let H push your buttons. You can have a boundary with out saying a word.


If my boundary is that H respects a certain quiet time in the house, does this include phone calls? Or is it on me to just stop letting the phone calls bother me? It's not like he's talking to an AP--then maybe I'd be entitled to ask him to make the calls outside.

If H does start playing music loudly too late, I could say I would appreciate him wearing headphones and respecting certain quiet hours.

If he doesn't, that's where I'm stuck. I can only control me. What could I do at that point? Again, maybe I shouldn't borrow trouble and worry before that happens. But I want to be prepared and understand respectful, calm ways to respond.

I can have a boundary without saying a word. I don't share my emotional states with H. I have that boundary without having to state it. Are there other examples of boundaries I can have right now that I don't have to state?


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