MLC newbie

[CanBird]

Hi Believe6. It's a wild ride of emotions & then add on a pandemic! Geez! We all have moments like the one you described above. Let yourself greive. Let it out. Whatever release works for you. Know that you're not alone here. Lots of ups and downs. And moments when you realize, hey...I WILL be okay.

You sound like a strong woman who can fend for herself. Work on you and the rest will happen in time.

[Believe6]

Thank you, CanBird. It's not fun. Well what about any of this could be fun, right? We were never promised an easy life. God, why couldn't we have an easy life? But then here we are...

So this morning I did the opposite of Dbing. I asked my H how he was doing when his alarm rang and before he got out of bed. It's all a jumble right now so I will do my best to share the story so maybe I can gain clarity or get someone else's perspective.

We talked about how we always promised to stay best friends. But we haven't even been real with each other. I get that we can't believe what an MLCer says. But he says he thinks people may have betrayed his trust because some of the things I've said or done have indicated that others may have shared things he told them in confidence. I asked him what things? He says he doesn't want to talk about it because he doesn't want to know if they did or not. I admitted that over the past few months I have tried to listen in on his conversations and that I have checked his various accounts. We agreed when he was "trying" to work on us that this is what I could do. I even have a tracking device on his phone.

After our talk this morning, he disabled the tracker. I found out and went to tell him I knew he did that. He said it's because he was mad- not sure if he's mad because I admitted I was tiring to listen in on him since this happened or what really. He is so mad about a lot of things.

He never uses the term angry. He hates angry people and believes I have had rage and anger and he is afraid of me. I've never hit him, but I have pounded on the ground or even hit my own self in the past. So I get why that scares him. A little background... his family doesn't express any feelings or talk about anything that may be considered "negative." They don't share problems, even medical history. They like to act as if everything is always perfect and always ok. My Family, we talked about everything growing up. Our angst. Our worries. Our pain. This is actually one reason I think he was attracted to me. I was so open about how I feel, what I think- good and bad, and how I see the world. In the past, that was ok. He loved it. Since this all came out 4+ months ago, now this is something he has a hard time with. It's hard to know how to be.

Anyway, during our talk this morning and before the whole tracker thing, we talked about how he feels I have been "robotic" and fake in at least 50% of our interactions. He feels awkward around me now and neither of us knows how to communicate. I shared that during MC a few weeks ago, he shared that he needs space. He needs to stop being "analyzed." He wants to run away and not have to deal with these feelings. He's confused and doesn't want to be rushed.

So I did the whole dbing thing. And now I'm robotic and fake. I can't really win here. I'm being upbeat. Staying away from any R talks or anything I think may upset him because he's confused, needs space to think on his own, and not have to deal with any of my feelings.

What should I be doing? My instinct tells me the 180 I was doing isn't working. It feels like now he needs to let his feelings out towards me. That the anger is actually getting worse because he's not sharing it. Being trapped at home is actually making things worse in that regard. We've pretended to be civil, but maybe that's not the way anymore?

I am so lost. When I told him I was removing the tracker app (which he installed BTW), I told him that it seems like he has things he wants to tell me. That I am open to hearing all the terrible things I've done. That I know he needs to let it out and I am willing to listen and not judge or blame or defend. I am willing to hear what he has to say. I told him that I want him to know, without a doubt that there is one person who absolutely loves him unconditionally.

I said this not because I am willing to be a doormat. On the contrary. The one thing I am SURE about is that my biggest value is LOVE. And that I am willing to love unconditionally.

This does not mean that I will accept all the blame. I won't. It means that I am willing to see as he sess. I am willing to accept that his perception of me, us and our life is HIS. I can't change it. I can't argue it away. It's his. And loving someone is knowing that they won't always, maybe not even most of the time, see things your way. But it is being willing to hear/listen to them. For them to feel validated, seen and heard if not agreed with.

So although I may not be doing this 180 thing right, right now. I am going with what I think will work. That is once again opening the door to conversation. Because this whole pretending we don't have issues, well it hasn't been working.

We'll see if he wants to share. I won't push it again. I'll let him tell me whatever he's ready to tell me when he's ready.

I will be open. I will prepare myself for the pain and the desire to defend. I am asking God for strength to change me. So that I will have my arms, heart, mind, and spirit wide open. That I will let whatever hurtful words, images, ideas, thoughts flow through me without snagging on my own feelings of denial, betrayal, defensiveness, or anger.

That he will feel heard. He will feel understood. He won't reach out to others. Even when the MC said to. I'm it. He's not even reaching out to the AP. If he was, he wouldn't be this distressed. So there it is. I am going to see where this goes. Praying for a miracle that maybe a little healing may start...

[job]

Believe,

There is an old saying around here, "if something is working, then continue doing it. If something isn't working, then try something else."

Listening and validating are key elements. Listen closely and sift through what he's saying and you just might figure out what is really going on w/him. Sometimes, when they open up, they can't stop talking...so really, really listen.

You are wise beyond your years...only accept 1/2 of the marriage breakdown. It takes two to marry and if one partner has not or will not open up about what they are feeling, how can the other partner know?

You've got this!

[Believe6]

Thanks, Job! But I screwed up. I went downstairs to his office and asked if we could talk sometime. He said sure, but not about this. I am not even sure if he means "this" like the fact that he blocked me from the tracker or "this" like about us or even "this" like the things he thinks about me that are negative.

I know I should back off. He's completely still in MLC land. He switches from seemingly ok to having these assumptions about me and what I'm doing.

He stopped in a few minutes ago while I was applying for a job to get his vitamins. He takes them various times of the day because he needs to take 2 or 3 times a day so he's diligent about spreading it out. And he asks how my interviews are going. I admit I haven't heard anything. Which I haven't. I have a virtual one set up for Wendesday and I am so nervous. It's the job I really want. I know I need to clean up my internal energy so I can get that one.

But my heart and soul are in turmoil. How can I be anything but terrified of so many things right now? I wan this job. I need it. I have worked hard all my life and keep getting laid off, but I know it's not my work ethic or my abilities. I am hoping I'm not missing something and somehow I'm really messed up in my interactions and that's why I keep getting laid off.

There's a huge part that just wishes my life were over. I know that's going against positive thinking, but I am so very lost. I know that we aren't supposed to say that either. We are supposed to say we are finding ourselves or the positive version. That what we think about we bring about... blah blah... I have been doing that for years and I keep getting what I keep getting. Maybe I need a new brain or something.

I am running in circles now.

So here's what I think... when he looked at me, I could see such contempt. I could see him being angry even though he won't admit that he is. He hates anger and says he never gets angry. Our MC asked him if he is really looking at that. I know he won't. He avoids things that he doesn't want to deal with. I think that's why he's actually ok that we are awkward. It's like now he has an excuse to keep me at bay.

I think he is waiting until I get a job to tell me he really wants out. I am trying so hard not to give him that excuse. I am trying to show him I can be the wife he remembers and needs. I know that right now he doesn't want a wife. I know he doesn't even want a friend. He doesn't seem to want any friends. He seems to want to be a hermit and that he would be ok with that. What happened to the happy, social, so very loving and affectionate guy that he was? Where did he go?

When he was still trying a month and a half ago, he was still affectionate. He still said he loved me. Would this have happened to us if I didn't push him to commit? Or was this just waiting because he was already in MLC land and he was spinning? It's baffling and terrifying and so very painful. I just want this to stop.

I finally told my mom (who told my dad because he was listening in) that my marriage is in trouble. I told my mom I didn't trust her because she tends to share secrets with so many people. I didn't tell her about the affair or what he's been doing to me- pushing me away, not wanting to talk, etc. I just needed my mommy. She apologized for not being there for me when I was younger because she was trying to deal with her own abandonment issues (war baby, never met dad until she was 48 as he didn't claim her--- long story). She said she's been holding me in her mind now and that she loves me and is there for me. She surprised me by telling me no matter what happens I will be fine. We're Catholic so I was waiting for her to tell me divorce is a sin and blah... But she didn't. She said she's worried that I've carried the guilt of my prior marriage (which was annulled) to an alcoholic. She's worried that I have not been supported enough and loved enough.

She's a wise soul and has sage advice even if she tends to not be good at secrets. She even said I could move home if I needed to. But how? I can't leave my kids. Not when it's S last year and my D still has 3 more in High School. No, I need to stay. I need to fight for my kids and my own sanity.

I need to find a way to be strong through each torturous moment. Until I find a way that each moment is no longer torture but a way to build my future. This life of a LBS of an MLCer is so very very lonely. So bitterly hard and sad. I am trying and I feel I am failing. But I will get up again. I can only force that one action then I guess I win.

[Grace21]

Believe,

I am so sorry you have a reason to be here. I'm sorry you are hurting. Please continue to write. Journal. Ask questions. Read other threads.

Your emotions are all over the place, and will continue to be. DnJ is correct when he says so many of them are rooted in fear. It took me a long time to let go of that fear, and to detach. I'm 1 1/2 years now with H out of the house and doing well, but I still regress from time to time. It's normal. Don't beat yourself up about it.

You can't control H's moods or actions. But you can choose to not let them be about you. You will hear a lot of advice here about focusing on You. Make this journey about you. Focus on your interviews, exercise, cook, read a good book, meditate, start a new craft. Whatever it is that you want to do. Do it. Take one day at a time. Sometimes we have to take one hour at a time.

Let the answers to your questions come to you. They are often elusive if we chase them.

Grace

[Believe6]

Grace, thank you so much. I have been sitting here holding my rosary. Wanting to pray. Wanting that peace that just comes from doing something repetitive... the rosary has become my meditation.

For the past 8 days, I have said a rosary for the AP and her family. Her spouse doesn't know and I think she is trying to save her marriage. Although she said in one communication with me months ago that she was getting separated, but I drive by her house every day (at least I did) because of dropping D off at her activity. I would see her car and his truck. Anyway, that doesn't mean they aren't separated, but either way, I know she didn't tell him because I asked her not to her H had an affair years ago and she stayed. I told her why tell him now if she isn't sure what he'd do? I don't want her H coming after my family. So she promised she'd tell me. Now she could be a liar, after all she was a friend and lied with my H about this. But I believe she didn't tell her H. So I am praying for their marriage. That if at least their marriage can weather this storm (even if her H doesn't know) then maybe, in my own selfish mind, she won't be coming after my H. I think he would do even crazier things if she did reach back out to him. He wasn't "in love" with her but he says they had a connection that he can't explain.

Part of how he described the affair made me think that he was caught up in the dopamine high. But then, after reading so much about MLC and his comments about wanting to "run away" and "be a hermit" totally reminds me of some of the posts others have shared that Jim Conway says in his book. That the MLCer wants to go off to a desert island.

My H says he doesn't even know if he would want to be with anyone. He just wants to be alone. As I've stated before, I don't think he is in contact with AP. I really don't or this could be worse. Maybe he is and I'm just delusional.

But I am trying to focus on me. Why is that so hard? Why do I find myself thinking and thinking about what i should be doing differently to reach him? I am now almost addicted to this and another MLC board. I am reading so much and devouring everything I can. I have so many forum tabs open. It's like I am still in denial that this is happening. Or maybe because I am someone who needs to be connected, I am looking for connection... I have to be patient with myself. At least I am not hounding him or checking his accounts. That's a win, right?

[Grace21]

Believe -

You echo what so many of us here have said, thought, and gone through.

I devoured this board. I checked his phone records. I did internet searches to see if I could find out more about his secret life. The first one? Absolutely a life saver. The other two? Only hurted myself. Made me obsessive. Kept the wound gaping. Please take another route that doesn't go by her house. This is an action you take for you.

My journey through this ended up being a faith journey. And I have found joy and peace. My story is not over, but I am l joyful and peacful.

Ask you whys. Scream out loud. Cry, a lot. Be angry. All normal feelings, and part of the process. Don't fight it. Move through it.

The MLCr is searching, and running. Of course he had a connection with his OW. They all do. But they realize at some point that the connection didn't make the hurt go away. My H is still talking about running. Wants me to do it with him! Pack up, move elsewhere, and start fresh. They have to find out on their own that no matter what they do, or where they go, the demons will always be there unless they are released.

Give your H the space and time to do this.

Grace

"When anxiety was great within me, your consolation brought me joy." Psalm 94:19

[DnJ]

Hello B

I devoured everything I could as well. We all require a certain amount of understanding to be able to let go.

Thing is, understand and acceptance, those answers come best when you are calm. Sit quietly and the answers will present themselves. Dig for patience. You’ve got time.

Why do I find myself thinking and thinking about what i should be doing differently to reach him?

Be patient.

You need to focus on you, and give him space and time. By all means you can talk to him, just no pressure. Let him lead things.

H has to walk his path. This is his crisis and his journey. Do not manipulate it.

There really isn’t anything you can do to speed him up. Most efforts by the LBS prolongs things; at best our efforts are neutral.

Manipulating the MLCer’s path is troublesome. When we start to manipulate we start taking ownership and responsibility of the MLCer’s path and the crisis’s outcome. You do not want that! The less steering you, the less regrets you will have.

If you actually do interrupt his journey, he will resume it later and it will be much worse the second time around. They need to get through this crisis, on their time.

None of us know what our MLCer spouse is struggling with, so we do not know if our efforts are working for or against their progress. A seemly good intentioned action could push him right out the door. Let him lead his journey.

When he talks to you, validate.

At times he will push your buttons, do not get caught up in an argument, no matter how stupid or obviously wrong what he says is. You’ve seen his anger and contempt. He is projecting upon you. He will look to get you to argue with him, to justify his feelings, so he can blame you. Don’t take the bait. Dig for patience.

(My XW blamed me for the furnace vent blowing air on her. Among a great many other things. SMH. )

Focus on you. Very wise advice. It helps with finding detachment. It also let’s H be on his own, and hopeful realize the Believe6 isn’t interacting and yet he is still angry, sad, upset, etc. - so it can’t be her fault. Then maybe, just maybe, he looks elsewhere... maybe even inside himself.

Only H can change his direction. Only H can control H.

Nothing you do matters and everything you do does.

That paradoxical statement is how one reaches a MLCer. We focus on ourselves and our kids. We heal. Let go. Find our beliefs. Strengthen and alter them. Choose better instead of bitter. Live in the light.

You reach H by becoming the best version of you, you can be. You become a lighthouse.

And you do it all for you.

That last statement is the big one. Everything you do is for you. You are the most important person in this equation. Be a woman only a fool would leave. The rest is up to H.

DnJ

[Believe6]

Grace, thank you so much.
_______
I found another thread from Kansha... she talks about letting God. I was struggling with what that meant and for some reason, I found that thread from back in 12/20/02...

She says, "This morning I started thinking about H as I was driving back from dropping the kids at school and immediately I said, "No, this is not for me to solve, I've turned it over to God, thank you, God." and that was it.
A feeling of lightness came over me and my mind went on to think of more pleasant things.

I'm not even checking to see how God is doing. It doesn't even sound right to "check on God's work" when you hear it but, I know I'm always looking to see if God is working on it. This would be enough to make any human give up. But, God loves me and understands my impatience. But, I love God so I will not continue to be unloving by looking over His shoulder, so to speak.

Letting Go is always a good idea. I forgot that when I had something to "work" on.

I know my H needs lots of space, still . I do get tired and impatient, I know but, this is not in my time and I know I am perfectly welcome to give up at any time. I will know that I have done everything I can (well that's the point, isn't it?)to save my marriage, to make it satisfying. But, I have not trusted God by continuing to let go.

This is a lesson to learn many times over. Each time I get better and better at it."
_______

You are right... he has to see for himself that no matter what he does... push me away, draw me close... talk or not... his demons are inside his mind and heart. I can not do this for him. Heck, we can't do anyone's path... not even our beloved kids for them. I am a professional corp Trainer. I know this stuff. I know that I can share concepts, ideas and even great tactics, but people must do the work.

I must also stop being the "fixer" with him. He is not someone who needs or wants my fixing. I started doing that a long time ago. I don't know when I went from being his partner and his friend to being a "fixer." I believe I fluctuated between those roles. And it must have driven him nuts. I know it changed me.

I am not going to be her. Whether or not he comes back to me, I will not be this "fixer' even if I do it as a job. I need to be me again. The woman who loves life. Who loves people. Who cares and reaches out. Who listens. Who learns. Who is curious about life and others and is willing to admit she doesn't know everything... who is willing to be flexible. Happy. Loving. Open. Kind. Non-judgemental. Compassionate..... The woman I was when he first met me only better, only deeper.

Thanks for the reminder, Grace!

[Believe6]

DnJ, you made me cry... so many wise, wise things you say. Both to me and so many others. I've read so many of your posts. And yes, you are right. I have not believed I could be patient. I use "believe" because it's a word that chose a few years back to guide my year. I was hoping that when things got rough, I could use faith to help me. But I have struggled with faith- real faith- my entire life. I am a control freak. I do want to do things and make this work out.

I prayed for God to show me how to have faith a couple of years ago... and now this? I guess the joke (or the growth) is all on me.

You are also right about not interrupting his journey. He needs to do this in his own time in his own way. He told me this morning he thinks I'm lost about what I want. I think he meant about us. I told him I'm not lost about that. I'm lost about what to do about work. But I'm not lost with what I want my life to be and who I want to be.

I hope that didn't seem to invalidate him. I let him know that I get how hard, confusing and scary this time is. Because he's shared in the past that's how he feels. I hope that at least did validate things.

I will leave him be and stop looking like I am checking in or trying to see how he's doing. I will keep doing what i can for my kids. And I will come here and also connect with my other friends.

It's time I stopped looking at him and started looking at me and those others who could use my love and support right now. Thank you, DnJ. You are a light and an inspiration.