I have moved over from the Newcomers forum because I am divorced and most of my issues surround how to navigate the difficult time following the loss of my marriage and family.
Short Summary
In 2008 my then wife had an affair on me with the husband of a couple we were very close friends with. He decided to work it out with his wife and left my then wife. My wife then put me through pain for four months before miraculously deciding to reconcile. We attended MC for about a year and it appeared we were reconciled for the next ten years. Last May she BD me again but this time denied another affair. D14 witnessed her having the affair with her best friend's dad. I asked my wife if she wanted to be married or if she loved me at all and she said "no". She pulled D14 out of class at her school and told her "I don't love your dad, I want him to raise you, and I will see you sometimes." She then left D14 at the school in my arms screaming school. She came by the next day and picked up all her stuff and has never been back. I asked her what she wanted in the divorce and she said that she wanted D14 every other weekend, I could have the house, and all other financial stuff can be split in half. She didn't want any of her Christmas ornaments, pictures, etc from the house at all. Within two months we were divorced and she never talked about our 22 years together after the BD.
She left and didn't contact D14 all summer while she went to concerts, the lake, and on trips with her new friends. The end of summer she wanted to see D14 but the visitation didn't go well. When official visitations started XW has gaslighted, yelled at, threatened, guilt tripped D14, until finally D14 thought about suicide and gave a half-hearted attempt at it. Their relationship has continued to degrade to the point D14 has hired her own lawyer to understand her rights and have an advocate to protect her legal rights as it pertains to her mom. After being cussed out and threatened in her last visit D14 is seeking to cut all overnight visitation with her mom and limiting it to two days a month.
As I pulled away after the divorce and communicated only through email and only responded to things related to D14 or financial matters, XW started getting more angry in her emails. I didn't respond to the threats or anger and this is when the abuse accusations started. Since I was never in physical contact with her the abuse allegations went away and in started the accusations of manipulating D14 and causing irreparable harm to their relationship. As D14 progressed through IC on her own and XW demanded to see the therapists notes, the accusations that it was my fault their relationship suffering stopped. Now, XW is accusing me of being abusive but this time it was during our 22 years together and that is why she had to leave. Finally she has hired a lawyer to reopen the Divorce Judgement because I have been accused of manipulating and coercing her into signing it when she didn't even know what she was signing.
My goal this year was to "Let it go!" but it appears I am still in survival mode.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Welcome! Your story was difficult to read; it's hard to imagine a mom being so cruel to her own daughter. It can take a long time to let things go so don't be too hard on yourself in the meantime.
What is she looking for in the divorce judgment? In reality, if she got half of all the money except for the house equity, and you are raising your daughter (presumably without financial help from her?) then it doesn't seem like it was that bad a settlement (unless she was a SAHM for the duration of your marriage and would have been entitled to some spousal support).
Truthfully, she probably is mentally ill or addicted but if she had her own lawyer during the divorce proceedings I don't see how she has a case. If she didn't and has some kind of official diagnosis other than midlife crisis, she might have a case. Consult with your lawyer and take his advice on how best to handle it. And if you do have to pay something more, bear in mind the original settlement probably wasn't completely fair because she as in such a rush to get out.
None of that excuses the bullsh!t she has thrown your way, and she might not be mentally ill but just have a personality disorder. What do you think it is? Bipolar mania, drug addiction, or personality disorder? It's definitely more than just garden variety MLC. (You might want to read DnJ's original threads - he's in MLC forum - his wife was similarly crazy).
The worst thing is the effect on your daughter. I'm glad she has her own advocate.
I’m sorry you and your daughter are dealing with this. No child should have to experience this.
I can’t help but think, it’s the reason we shouldn’t try to prevent divorce with cheaters. Eventually they do it again and as everyone gets older - it just becomes more difficult. People like that are entitled and dishonest and irresponsible. You sound like an amazing dad and your daughter is lucky to have you
What is she looking for in the divorce judgment? In reality, if she got half of all the money except for the house equity, and you are raising your daughter (presumably without financial help from her?) then it doesn't seem like it was that bad a settlement (unless she was a SAHM for the duration of your marriage and would have been entitled to some spousal support).
She wants half the equity in the house she originally wanted me to have so I could raise D14 in. She wants her 25% equity in my parents house since we bailed my parents out couple years ago to prevent them from becoming homeless. She wants the difference in the value of her car and my car (I have a Dodge Dart and she has a Hyundai Elantra and the difference is like $2,000). We split the retirement but wants more of it back. I was the stay at home dad for 10 years and get spousal support and so she doesn't want to pay any of it anymore. She now wants full custody and custodial custody (my guess is so she doesn't have to pay child support). She wants me to be charged with fraud, abuse due to forcing her to sign the divorce papers under duress, and usury.
In summary:
Forced liquidation of my house Forced liquidation of my parents house Stop all spousal support and child support payments Full custody of D14 Pay her legal fees My car
Why does this person hate me so much? I loved her with all my heart, D14 loved her, and we were the envy of all our friends. She wanted to leave so I didn't stop her, she wanted a quick divorce so I gave her that, she wanted to never talk about our R so I haven't, she wanted me to raise D14 so I am. All questions I just need to let go and I realize that. Yes I have a lawyer and text and email evidence that show I never committed fraud, abuse, put her under duress, prevented her from seeing D14, or anything else she has accused me of. My lawyer literally laughed when he read the papers served. He is not worried in the slightest. It still hurts though. One night I went to bed with the best family in the world and the next day my family was destroyed
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
I think it may help a bit if you think of this as some kind of sickness on her part - one that you didn't cause and cannot cure. I do not believe it's personal, even though I'm sure it feels very personal. Let your lawyer take the lead. xo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Your situation is eerily similar to my own. There are very few mothers who totally abandon their own children. Illness or crisis or whatever - imagine the inner torment it must take to change someone so much they would throw away their children. It is barely conceivable.
I know how it feels. I cuddled my wife, awoke to Thanksgiving Day, a day of games and family. Enjoyed a wonderful turkey supper, then a surprise announcement from my wife - she stood up at the end of the table and told me, the four kids, and my parents that she was leaving, her affair, and I could have the house, the cars, the money, and the kids, unless I didn’t want them then she would have to take them. She left that night with OM; he came and picked her up. By the way he is my neighbour, living 1 mile away. She ran less than a mile away, but it is worlds apart.
Our divorce require each of us to have legal representation. Her L was flabbergasted at what she was doing. He forced her to see two financial planners, and sign waivers, on top of everything else, to prove that she was knowingly and willingly doing this. She left everything, save most of her clothes, a laundry basket, the bathroom scale, some frozen fruits and vegetables, and a coffee mug. Nothing else, no pictures, no pets, no money, no pension, no gifts from the kids, nothing that would connect her to her past life. She was a stay at home mom who ran a daycare at our house. She raised kids for 24 years.
Most divorce decrees are good and binding. Mine own required being separated for at least one year and then apply for divorce which takes time to grant and then gets enacted 30 days later - lots of time to change one’s mind. XW jumped the gun and actually applied for divorce 3 weeks early. I got served the papers. I never pushed the process, she rushed everything along.
My XW is like your wife. They become different people - completely. There is nothing you can say to her that she will hear or would be willing to hear - at the moment. The future is thankfully unknown and you have being given a gift of time which I suspect you have been using wisely.
Navigating the time after one’s divorce, and the resulting family problems and shifts in dynamics, does take time. Focus on you and your kids. Let go XW. Let go the fear. Discover you and your beliefs. Strengthen the beliefs you desire, alter or discard those that do not serve you. Live those beliefs. Physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual paths do align. One can heal and live in peace and gentle happiness.
Stay strong and live in the light.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you for your words everyone. Letting go of the fear is currently my biggest obstacle. I thought once the divorce was finalized last summer I wouldn't have to worry about all the stuff she wants to go back to court for. I told myself after she signed the papers, "you have a house, job, emergency savings, daughter who loves you, and your health, so you have nothing to fear." Since the divorce I have been gradually piecing a new life back together with D14 and even with the ups and downs we have grown so much closer which I didn't even think was possible. Before I got served papers both D14 and I were even daring to dream of our new life and how great we could make it. We can still dream but it is so difficult with the possible reopening of the divorce decree. I have always been pretty rock solid in my beliefs and through this journey I have learned that they have and will serve me well. Through out this whole process I have never attacked, threatened, or begged my XW. She wanted to go and I said "ok" and watched her leave. It broke my heart but I knew she had to go through whatever it was she needed to without me. I just wish she would leave me alone. She wanted to leave so I didn't stop her, she wanted me to raise D14 so I am, she wanted me to never contact her in person so I haven't, she wanted me to let her go so I did, she wanted me to move on so I am, but the more I do these things the more hostile she becomes.
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Focus on you and your kids. Let go XW. Let go the fear. Discover you and your beliefs. Strengthen the beliefs you desire, alter or discard those that do not serve you. Live those beliefs. Physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual paths do align. One can heal and live in peace and gentle happiness.
This is very similar to the goals I set for myself at the beginning of the year and the closer I reach them the angrier XW seems to become and the more she wants to hurt me and D14.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Letting go of the fear is currently my biggest obstacle. I thought once the divorce was finalized last summer I wouldn't have to worry about all the stuff she wants to go back to court for.
That is a good thought.
You don’t have to worry.
Worrying is praying for something you don’t want.
See the strikeout text ^^^. That is reinforcing your fear.
Letting go of fear and worry isn’t because a possible future event can’t or won’t happen. It comes from the rationalization that you cannot control what she is going to do. You have done all you can do. Papers are signed and things sorted out. Let go. You will deal with stuff if it comes up.
Originally Posted by rooskers
I told myself after she signed the papers, "you have a house, job, emergency savings, daughter who loves you, and your health, so you have nothing to fear."
After D we take stock and see where we are. Fear is gone because divorce and spilt of assets has happened. It is no longer a possible future event. We take stock and figure out how to move forward. We control what we can.
Loss of control is a big part of fear. It feeds that irrational trigger/emotion and reinforces itself. Uncouple that.
The possible future opening of the divorce decree is, as you have stated, a source of worry and fear. Push pass the initial and see what you are afraid of. It is not the opening of the decree, it is changing the decree. It is losing more stuff.
Rationalize this and uncouple it. Let go.
Originally Posted by rooskers
Yes I have a lawyer and text and email evidence that show I never committed fraud, abuse, put her under duress, prevented her from seeing D14, or anything else she has accused me of. My lawyer literally laughed when he read the papers served. He is not worried in the slightest.
Follow your lawyer’s lead. He is not worried.
To further the letting go the fear of loss. Your health - XW can’t take that. You daughter’s love - XW can’t take that. Your spirit, beliefs, honour, loyalty, hope, faith, God - no one can take that away from you!
The very most important things in life, no one can steal away, we give them away, and lose them ourselves. We therefore can also regain them. See that and fear not. Follow your beliefs, and what matters most will always remain.
Originally Posted by rooskers
This is very similar to the goals I set for myself at the beginning of the year and the closer I reach them the angrier XW seems to become and the more she wants to hurt me and D14.
I, of course, do admire and respect those goals.
It is likely XW will lash out the more you heal and move forward. It matters not. Her behaviour and actions do not limit nor steer what you do - focus on you.
Let her waves of anger crash against your strength and beliefs. Weather her storm, be a stanchion, stand for you and D14. All storms eventually blow themselves out. Be stronger than the storm. Be more than the storm.
This is upon you on four fronts, four paths.
The intellectual path, the business side, the divorce decree. Remain logical and intellectual, rational and reasoned, continue to go through your lawyer.
The emotional path, is irrational. The strengthen of logic and reason do exist within this realm. You already possess a compassion towards XW. You have detachment. Compassionate indifference allows one’s heart to remain squishy and flex to the emotional pressures. A rigid and protected heart will shatter under too much pressure and cannot grow encased within it’s calcified cocoon. Compassionate indifference gives you both protection and growth.
The physical path, our behaviours and interactions. These also greatly influences our healing and our other paths. It is often underestimated. I’ve many times recommended, a gentle and peaceful life starts with closing the cupboard door in a gentle and peaceful manner. Our physical actions have an unspoken and yet loud affect upon us. Ensure your actions are leading you where you want to go.
The spiritual path, your beliefs. It is good to read about your rock solid beliefs and how they have served and do serve you. Our beliefs are the underpinnings, the foundation, and the summation of everything we are. Living misaligned with one’s beliefs leads to chaos. It is so important to discover one’s beliefs and ensure they are what you want. Alter and strengthen and live them.
The waves that at first contained so much power, crashed, and threatened to smash everything. Rigidly I stood, trying to be strong, trying to find strength against the forces that rhythmically and ceaselessly pushed. I feared. I weakened. I toppled.
Slowly, I rose up. Strength needs flexibility. Compassion needs indifference. Understanding needs empathy. Acceptance needs forgiveness.
The waves that at first contained so much power, no longer crash, no longer threaten. Was it the wave that crashed against me, or me against the wave? Nowadays the storm is nothing, literally nothing. Whatever blows my way passes through with hardly a disturbance.
Looking back, her storm was cruel, and formidable. But it was my storm that toppled me. My fears were the waves that crashed and almost destroyed me.
We face many storms. It is the one inside us that is most powerful. And is the one we can actual do something about.
I believe you are on an excellent path; all four of them.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I was so excited today for completing my taxes and and filing them electronically. My excitement turned to confusion when I got an email two hours later saying my tax returns were rejected. Apparently my ex has decided to claim D on her tax returns even though the divorce decree says I am to be the one to claim her. Not only does the divorce decree say I get to claim her but since I am the custodial parent and she lives with me the majority of the year the IRS says I get to claim her. Now I have to file my taxes by paper and wait for the letter from the IRS telling me D14 has been claimed by two people and to provide proof that I am the one to be able to claim her. Then it is likely we will both be audited. The end result is I will be able to claim her as a dependent and my EX will have to pay penalties along with losing the deduction to the IRS. Does this type of stupid stuff ever end?
I got an email from my EX saying that she wanted D14 to bring over homework so she could help her with it. D14 had been falling a little behind since classes are all online now and she was a little confused at the beginning. I sent all D14's homework with her and we even made a list on what she needed to accomplish. When D14 got there she went up to her room and didn't leave for the two and a half days. Her mother never asked about her homework, never engaged her and just left food outside her door. D14 said they didn't really communicate at all and then her mother brought her home about a half hour early. D14 feels like she just wastes her life when she is over there. At the beginning of this whole thing I tried to give her ideas and ways she could try to interact with her mother but those have all failed and it caused a backlash against me so I stopped. D14's counselor has tried similar things but this amounted to nothing as well.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
My XW did something similar and I had to discuss the situation and provide the documented proof of our agreement. It took a while to sort out. Just have to roll with it; you know it will be fine.
Kids to need to lash out, they have a lot of frustration and loss to deal with. We, the sane parent, usually get the brunt of it all. We get double, since kids cannot risk losing their other parent. All my kids, at first, vented their anger at me. Yes, when we get in between the relationship of them and their Mom, they do direct their venting at us.
A lot of the kids’ frustration is at the loss of control; just like us. Ensure your daughter it is ok, let her express herself. Demonstrate that she controls herself, and not her Mom or anyone else for that matter. Maybe letting her know she has choices would help. At 14 one of those choices is visiting or not, sleeping over or not.
Things do look different to our children when they are visiting with the knowledge they could leave or say no. They are not just a pawn, or just a kid who has to do whatever is said. Of course that comes with a big helping of responsibility for them too. I tend to believe that is good. Our children are a lot more, than we sometimes give them credit for.
I suspect that your daughter would find her voice and speak up to her Mom. The wasting her life for two and a half days kind of thing. She probably would continue the staying over and visiting, and move forward along her path of healing.
She, you, no one can make her Mom be a better Mom. We can just be better ourselves. We control us. That’s a hard lesson to learn. And really good when learnt at such a young age.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ thanks for the reply. I have done some deep thinking and am trying to realize why it bothered me so much when my tax returns were rejected because of what my EX had done. It will be fine and only really require time and paperwork to get it fixed on my end, so what caused such anxiety in me? I believe it is the acceptance of who my EX is rather than who I thought or wanted her to be. I had this idealistic picture of her for 22 years and trusted my life with her and now I have to let that go. My relationship with D14 grows ever stronger.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
So D14 received a text from her mother yesterday asking her if she would like to meet the mother of the family she will be moving in with on May 1. I don't particularly like or agree with the situation but there is nothing I can do. My EX has decided to move in with a friend. The friend is recently engaged (the fiance lives with her) and has an 11 year old son. They live in a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house and my ex will be taking the spare room. When D14 has visitation she will be living with this family. I can foresee all sorts of problems but I realize I cannot control what my EX does or how she lives. The aggravating part is the texting back and forth between D14 and her mother. D14 said she strongly disagreed with her mother's choice of not finding a more affordable apartment she could live in on her own and even offered to help her find a place. Her mother texted back saying your dad takes all of my money literally every single cent I make each paycheck and that is why I have hired a lawyer to rectify the situation. She went on to say that once I get back everything that is rightfully mine we can have a wonderful place together just the two of us. D14 broke down crying after the texting because she knows it is all a lie. D14 is with me all the time and knows what I spend my money on and how much I make and can also see what her mother spends her money on and how she lives her life. D14 said her mother is mad because she can't afford to live in her townhouse in a million dollar neighborhood anymore because she has gone into so much debt buying things. I am now the scapegoat on her financial problems and if only she didn't have to pay me spousal support and child support the world would be right again.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
someday i hope you are truly rid of this woman and her projections. in the meantime, i hope that you realize with every cell of your being that this is her issue and her problem. stay strong for yourself and your wonderful daughter.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
someday i hope you are truly rid of this woman and her projections.
This is certainly the goal, but I think as long as we share a child I will just have to toughen up emotionally.
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stay strong for yourself and your wonderful daughter.
D14 just got a text message from her mom saying, "would you rather stay with your dad Easter?" So she gave up her time with D14 on Christmas Eve and now she is giving up her time with D14 on Easter. I am still working on not being shocked by this type of behavior. D14 I believe is much further along on this process of acceptance because her only reaction was that of utter joy at being able to stay home and celebrate Easter with me.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
So D14 received a text from her mother yesterday asking her if she would like to meet the mother of the family she will be moving in with on May 1. I don't particularly like or agree with the situation but there is nothing I can do. My EX has decided to move in with a friend.
Keep in mind this may not be true. My H said similar things and in the end he rented a house nicer than mine.
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Her mother texted back saying your dad takes all of my money literally every single cent I make each paycheck and that is why I have hired a lawyer to rectify the situation. She went on to say that once I get back everything that is rightfully mine we can have a wonderful place together just the two of us. D14 broke down crying after the texting because she knows it is all a lie. D14 is with me all the time and knows what I spend my money on and how much I make and can also see what her mother spends her money on and how she lives her life. D14 said her mother is mad because she can't afford to live in her townhouse in a million dollar neighborhood anymore because she has gone into so much debt buying things. I am now the scapegoat on her financial problems and if only she didn't have to pay me spousal support and child support the world would be right again.
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H dabbles in this game every once in a while but the kids know more than he realizes so all he gets from them is blank stares.
D14 has been behind in homework and when I asked her about it she admitted to watching too many YouTube videos. I asked her what she has been watching and she said how to cut hair. She then proceeded to ask me if I would be willing to let her cut my hair. Without a second thought I smiled and said that would be a great idea, while panicking inside. Turns out she has a talent in cutting hair. The best moment of the whole thing was the giant smile on her face when I told her what a great job she did and she could tell I was being honest. I live for those moments.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
D14 came home early again from her visitation. I am not sure exactly what took place before this but D14 said her mom came to her door Saturday around 4PM and asked her "would you rather just go home to be with your dad" in a snippy tone. D14 happily said, "yes I would and packed her stuff up immediately." D14 said this really made her mom mad because she was expecting D14 to feel guilty like she usually gets and try to talk things out with her mother. This time D14 said she was tired of being made to feel guilty and just straight up said yes I would like to leave and packed her stuff up and told her mom she was ready to go. Not a word was said after this or the whole drive.
I was not surprised when the door opened and there was D14. We went for a walk so she could vent and then came home and gardened. I hide most of it from D14 but the anxiety and hurt I see when my daughter is going through so much pain is starting to cause problems with my health. I am working on it in therapy but having to watch D14 go through this is heart wrenching.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
D14 is having a rough time today. Her mother sent her text messages filled with flowers and I love you messages. D14 is so emotionally exhausted with this. One moment her mom loves her more than anything and the next she could care less about her. It has been this way since she was born. She treated me, her mom, her brother, her friends, all the same way. One day she will jump in front of a bus to save you the next she will push you in front to get rid of you. I just let D14 know that I will always be by her side and validate her struggles and feelings. I try to encourage her to talk to her therapist about this as well. What else can I do?
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
roosters you know I don't agree with allowing your ex to terrorize your daughter. Your ex made D14 suicidal and this needs to stop. If you insist on making her do visitation then at least get D14 a psychopath free phone and you monitor the other one. Please rooster please stop this.
I don't understand. I am doing my best in learning to let go of my old dreams and move forward. Twice I have had women who are married try to start a relationship. It is like they see a guy who cares about his daughter and think great he can also raise my children too instead of the drunk I am married to. Screw the guy or his heart as long as he is useful I will pursue him. What the heck, I am not just a dad but a human with a heart.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
It is nice to see D14 tell her Mom that yes, she would like to leave. It takes time for kids to find their voice, and courage to speak it.
Originally Posted by rooskers
I hide most of it from D14 but the anxiety and hurt I see when my daughter is going through so much pain is starting to cause problems with my health.
Yes, there is anxiety and hurt. You can talk to D14, age approximately of course. You don’t need to hide all your feelings or share all your feelings. It is good when Dad is seen as a feeling person too.
Originally Posted by rooskers
I just let D14 know that I will always be by her side and validate her struggles and feelings. I try to encourage her to talk to her therapist about this as well. What else can I do?
Keep listening to your daughter.
Sometimes, to a daughter, you’re supposed to know exactly what to do (or at least appear to), and other times you’re not suppose to know (or at least appear not to). And no, I don’t have a nice cheat sheet for figuring out which time is which.
My daughter is days away from being 18, and Mom left her when she was 15. Looking back (and somewhat forward) I’ll share some thoughts:
These poor hurt daughters have so many changes already happening in their young lives. Their mind, heart, and body are changing. Then heap a crazy Mom on top of all that; the very person she would have looked to for advice and her role model in this time.
Yes, your D14 has struggles and feels. Listen and discuss (not necessarily solve).
Another big thing to do - help and encourage D14 to find her voice. At 14 she gets a say in where, when, and who she visits. There really is no need for forced visits. I think the visits are twice a month and not over night. Ask D14 if she is ok with those arrangements.
Finding their voice and confidence at 14 is a big stretch. The seeds are getting sowed. Nurture. Grow a strong stable young woman.
For what it’s worth. At 16 things change a lot. Driving license provides new freedom. (Oh there is probably a boyfriend somewhere in here too) They really start standing up on their own. 17-18 and beyond, yep young women, birth control, sex, moving out - all happening or soon to be happening.
In four, shorter than you imagine years, D14 is D18. Just think of who she will be. It’s quite amazing how they grow up and heal so well.
That is the road she is on, and you want her upon. What else can you do? Walk with her.
Bra and panty shopping, grad dress shopping, shoe shopping, OMG so much shopping!!! Oh yeah, girls, right.
I love how you immediately allowed her to cut your hair. That was perfect.
Be there for her first broken heart, while she stands in the rain, hair plastered to her face, her tears lost amidst the rain drops flowing down her cheeks.
Be so very patience and kind as she learns to drive your car.
Hold her accountable when she gets a speeding ticket.
Eat the burnt muffins she attempted to make.
Absolutely love the later batch of muffins she perfected.
Hold her hand and head when she is throwing up after drinking too much.
Be kind and love her, as she lashes out and “hates” you.
Be there, always.
Be Dad.
Be a role model.
Walk with her.
And when, at another sooner than you imagine time, you walk with her down the aisle she’ll be so very happy having the best Dad in the world.
What else can you do? Don’t let this rob her of a healthy and full life. Or you either.
Walk with her.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I was raised by parents like your ex which is why your posts trigger me. They did so much damage and even though I moved out at 18 it was too late. Outwardly I seemed fine but I so wasn't.
I spent 22 years trying to figure it out and have literally read or listened to hundreds of books. My final conclusion I came to was, it isn't my problem anymore.
DnJ ~ Thank you, your stopping by and sharing means more than you know. I will look back often on your advice.
kas99 ~ Your strength inspires me. You share so much of yourself on these boards and I am happy I can share in your growth. Thank you for adding your thoughts and advice to my sitch.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Quote Could she have borderline personality disorder?
I spent 22 years trying to figure it out and have literally read or listened to hundreds of books. My final conclusion I came to was, it isn't my problem anymore.
The reason I ask is because she IS your children's problem still. Borderline personality disorders swing between "You're the best thing ever" and "you're the worst person I ever met". It's so confusing and disorienting for people who are involved with them. They have trouble maintaining long-term relationships, friendships, sometimes jobs because of it.
My best friend was raised by a stepmom who is a (relatively benign) borderline. This stepmom did manage a long marriage to my friend's father but he was extremely codependent. My friend says the stepmom can be a lot of fun when she's in a good mood, but can turn on a dime if she perceives some kind of (usually imaginary) slight. Stepmom and dad moved a lot, stepmom either didn't fit in or wore her welcome out with various friends and church groups. When she married the dad stepmom threw away almost all photos of my friend's deceased mother. After the father died she threw out a ton of family photos without asking my friend first if she wanted them. She's finally moved out of state to live near her biological daughter and although my friend misses the good times with her, she realizes how unhealthy the stepmom is and is happy not to be walking on eggshells all the time caretaking her stepmom's "feelings".
From the Mayo clinic: Signs and symptoms may include:
An intense fear of abandonment, even going to extreme measures to avoid real or imagined separation or rejection A pattern of unstable intense relationships, such as idealizing someone one moment and then suddenly believing the person doesn't care enough or is cruel Rapid changes in self-identity and self-image that include shifting goals and values, and seeing yourself as bad or as if you don't exist at all Periods of stress-related paranoia and loss of contact with reality, lasting from a few minutes to a few hours Impulsive and risky behavior, such as gambling, reckless driving, unsafe sex, spending sprees, binge eating or drug abuse, or sabotaging success by suddenly quitting a good job or ending a positive relationship Suicidal threats or behavior or self-injury, often in response to fear of separation or rejection Wide mood swings lasting from a few hours to a few days, which can include intense happiness, irritability, shame or anxiety Ongoing feelings of emptiness Inappropriate, intense anger, such as frequently losing your temper, being sarcastic or bitter, or having physical fights
I spent 22 years trying to figure it out and have literally read or listened to hundreds of books. My final conclusion I came to was, it isn't my problem anymore.
See it helps me to diagnose H because it helps undo all the gaslighting I endured. He convinced me I was crazy, a bad mother, needy, flawed, broken and he was just so much better than me. The thing about gaslighting is over time you become that person. I had 30 years of this.
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kas99 ~ Your strength inspires me. You share so much of yourself on these boards and I am happy I can share in your growth. Thank you for adding your thoughts and advice to my sitch.
I relate to your story because we're kind of on the same timeline only you're divorced already and I'm just getting started. Oh and our ex's are unbelievably cruel to our kids.
Court went very well and the judge said the divorce would not be reopened period. He called all the accusations ridiculous and on the 19th of July it will be one year from the date the judge signed the papers. What a relief. Since the judge ruled on the case ExW has been emailing me to renegotiate the financial aspects of the divorce without using lawyers. I politely say "All negotiations or questions regarding the divorce can go from your lawyer through my lawyer." Another step for me in keeping my boundaries and not getting emotional but keeping it business like. When that didn't work she has started to email me about small talk but I never respond. I just have no desire for any type of connection with her in my life unless absolutely necessary.
D14 has continued modified visits that that they discuss and agree on. Since the divorce her mom has taken her a little less than 20 days even though she was legally entitled to 52. I have used that time to grow closer, go on adventures, and create amazing memories with D14. We went to the top of a mountain to look at the comet Neowise. D14 loved hiking at 1am in the morning.
Life continues.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Nice to see the decree being upheld and XW’s accusations being ruled ridiculous.
Really good keeping a strong healthy boundary with XW regarding outside negotiations and the not so innocent small talk emails tact she is trying.
Love hearing about you and D14 bonding. A mountain top hike at 1:00am to view a comet. Awesome. She’ll never forget that! Or Dad who experienced it with her.
Well done my friend. What a good path you are on.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Ex has now resorted to trying to get me involved in a visitation battle again by saying D14 was ready to do overnights with her on her weekends knowing full well D14 didn't want that. I didn't take the bate by arguing with her about what D14 wants and instead just let her know that she was legally entitled to her full time with D14 from x-time until y-time and I fully supported that and would let D14 know. Visitation came and not only did she not take D14 for the full visitation but will now be cutting her visitation time with D14 from 3 days/2 overnights every other week to only one afternoon every other week. I am realizing the emails sent are just a way of trying to annoy me and really have nothing to do with wanting to spend time with D14. The more I don't respond to her emails or engage in drama the less she wants to do with D14.
~kml~
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The reason I ask is because she IS your children's problem still. Borderline personality disorders swing between "You're the best thing ever" and "you're the worst person I ever met". It's so confusing and disorienting for people who are involved with them. They have trouble maintaining long-term relationships, friendships, sometimes jobs because of it.
This is why I have D14 in therapy and I continue to provide stability in her life. I have also fought and won to be the primary caretaker of D14 for 339 days of the year. I understand what you are saying but BPD, Bipolar, and all the other disorders are not treatable unless the person who has it is willing to get the help they need. My strategy has been to develop D14 into a mentally/emotionally strong individual who has resources and support to navigate the difficulties in life as opposed to trying to analyze and change my EX. It isn't what I wanted for D14. I appreciate you sharing with me kml and it must have been hard to watch your best friend go through that. I am glad your friend had someone like you to help navigate the struggles.
~DnJ~ Raising a teen by oneself isn't always the most pleasant experience especially during this COVID nightmare but I wouldn't trade it for the world.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Oh well it was fun while it lasted. I will be headed back to court. EX has hired a new lawyer and now is going after more stuff. Does this nightmare ever end. What is the point of a signed legal document if she can just take me to court every 6 months on stuff she already signed and agreed on and the judge signed it as well. Just feeling really frustrated. It seems she won't be happy until I am dead in the gutter.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Sorry Rooskers. Seems pretty ridiculous when the judge said last time it would not be reopened. She seems to be really in love with the fight. You would think she was the LBS. I totally get your frustration. Wish I had some words of wisdom or advice but unfortunately I don’t... other than to stay the course and keep your cool. Keep your focus on D14 and building good memories. (((HUGS)))
My parents could not afford their house about 4 years ago so when I was married we helped them out by paying down their house some. Part of the agreement was we refinanced it into all 4 of our names and we each have a 25% ownership and if someone dies the percent ownership gets divided among the other owners. We are not allowed to will it or sell it to anyone else only inherit a larger percentage of equity when someone dies. This asset she says was not put into the divorce settlement and now she is demanding she be bought out of her 25% equity and the house be refinanced without her name on it within 30 days or have the court force the sale of the house. This would leave my parents homeless since the equity they would receive would not be enough to get something around here and they only live off of social security and I do not have the financial means to buy her out or refinance it. It is pretty stupid of her since my parents are in their late 70's and not in good health. If they pass away she immediately gets another 25% of the equity when it is sold but she seems to only care about the now.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
If that agreement is all in a good legal contract you should have no problem - the divorce doesn't change anything about that agreement. (BUT - if you can - buy her out because it's a great investment for you! You get a 100% guaranteed return on the money when your parents pass. How many investments can you make where you are guaranteed to double your money in that time? )
I have the money to buy her out at least most of it but I don't make enough to refinance it. Very frustrating. The thing that hurts the most is the fact she is willing to boot my parents out just so she can get money immediately. They were her mom and dad for 22 years and they treated her like a daughter. It won't happen but still the fact that she is trying is what is so disappointing to me.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
This must be very stressful, worrying about what this could do to your parents.
Just because she's saber-rattling about refinancing doesn't mean she gets her way. This is a complex legal issue - forced house sale, whether or not she waived her right to the 25% equity, etc.
Also... how the heck did she not consider her equity in this house during the D settlement? Crazy...
I guess first you need to determine whether or not she has a legal basis for her claim. If she does then you unfortunately probably have to deal with it at some point. (No judge would order an immediate sale in 30 days, that is nuts).
One thing I notice is you seem to be reacting to your W's black/white offer... buy her out and refinance or bust. The reality is there are likely many options to resolve the issue if she does deserve (legally speaking) all or some of her share of the equity. Perhaps even a good private mediator specializing in this issue would be able to help in a much more cost-effective way.
Regarding the bigger issue of your XW revisiting things... I think this happens often. I fully expect it to happen in my situation.
One friend of mine had an amicable D several years ago. He had his kids 3 weekends a month. Once his XW stopped receiving support, she filed for 100% custody, claimed abuse, and he spent 6 figures clearing his name. He now has 50-50 custody but constantly worries that she may come back with a new claim and drag him back to court.
Another acquaintance of mine, for 15 years, knew that every September his XW was going to file a move-away request or something else that the court would not grant, but would require him to spend legal money and fight.
She won't change her behavior until her narrative changes. It may never change. Maybe she's in love with the fight. You can choose your own rules of engagement, including whether to ignore.
So many people are going through so much right now and I shouldn't complain but I am tired. I still have my house, D14 and I are in good physical health and we are safe at the moment. That being said I hurt and am exhausted in everyway. Divorce, single dad, D14 grieving loss, multiple lawsuits, COVID, fire, friends losing everything to fire, loss of family, job instability, my students who have lost everything in fires. I know I will get through this but at some point I wonder when it will all be too much.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
There's never been a more stressful year than 2020, self care is super important. Whatever works for you - funny movies, exercise, meditation, yoga - make it a priority. (Rewatching Superbad always helps me!).
Regarding the bigger issue of your XW revisiting things... I think this happens often. I fully expect it to happen in my situation.
One friend of mine had an amicable D several years ago. He had his kids 3 weekends a month. Once his XW stopped receiving support, she filed for 100% custody, claimed abuse, and he spent 6 figures clearing his name. He now has 50-50 custody but constantly worries that she may come back with a new claim and drag him back to court.
Another acquaintance of mine, for 15 years, knew that every September his XW was going to file a move-away request or something else that the court would not grant, but would require him to spend legal money and fight.
She won't change her behavior until her narrative changes. It may never change. Maybe she's in love with the fight. You can choose your own rules of engagement, including whether to ignore.
The divorce process is so hateful, so divisive. Too many scumbag lawyers and divorce counselors who advise fight and lie, rather than honesty and decency.
My STBXW was the loveliest woman I'd ever known, gentle and kind and everyone's best friend, trustworthy and dependable and honorable. Yet, 4 weeks after her filing, she accused me (through her scumbag attorney) that I was violent and they needed a restraining order against me. I am a sensitive and gentle man; it almost put in me in the emergency ward as I had chest tightness, a (temporary) heart arrhythmia, and an immediate physical reaction -- as I read that hateful letter from her attorney, I was in a meeting with others, and every pore of my upper body gushed water. I had never had a physical reaction like that.
I refuse to be angry with her about this despicable action; it was so far out of character for the woman I'd known for other 30 years. Still, as per Sandi's rules, I need to judge actions not words, and not the memory of who she was. So I can't trust her.
Unchien thanks for stopping by. [quote]Another acquaintance of mine, for 15 years, knew that every September his XW was going to file a move-away request or something else that the court would not grant, but would require him to spend legal money and fight.
She won't change her behavior until her narrative changes. It may never change. Maybe she's in love with the fight. You can choose your own rules of engagement, including whether to ignore.[\quote]
The rules of engagement are some what dictated by her. She files something in court against me and I have no choice but to respond with my lawyer unless I want a summary judgement against me. I have been taken to court about every 3 months since last February. She has lost every time but the stress and anxiety it causes and the financial strain is horrendous.
Engagement by me has been ignoring attacks or accusations but answering co-parenting questions when they come up. I have never sent her an email criticizing her or attacking her just responses to direct questions as it relates to D14. Example, she said D14 was not responding to her texts about their upcoming visitation and asked me if I would get D14 to respond to her. This was a reasonable request and I replied back that I had talked with D14 and she would respond going forward. She followed up with accusations of me not being a good co-parent to which I did not respond.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Round 1 of the current lawsuit is over and the judge has said she cannot force a buyout or require my parents house to be sold. She has also lowered her visitation to every other Saturday's for a couple hours in the morning. After I gave the judge my retirement balance from an old retirement account and submitted the part of her retirement account she was hiding she has agreed to stop pursuing the matter under advice from her lawyer. Her lawyer did not know about the account she was hiding and now worries I will go after half of that since it was worth considerably more than mine. I won't go after it.
December will determine if she can lower child support and spousal support. It is unlikely since I now take care of D14 365 days a year so the state calculator actually would have child support go up. I am also not pursuing that but just want her to adhere to the dissolution of marriage that she signed and agreed to. I hate the fact that she keeps taking me to court even though I keep winning every time it is emotionally exhausting.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Sometimes between Covid, lawsuits, and raising a teenage daughter alone just, well it just [censored]. I mostly look at the positives but there are days I wonder why all this has to happen. I keep plugging along but every time I feel like I am coming to a good place God seems to throw another obstacle in my way. I read everybody's sitches on here in this forum but never feel like I have much to comment on. I want everyone who reads this to know that I keep up with your posts all the time but just don't say much. Thank you everyone for being you, this place is truly special.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
This year is uber stressful for everyone. I can't wait to move on to 2021! Don't forget to take care of yourself and do some stress reduction. We will get through this.
I won the 4th lawsuit brought by EXW against me. The retirement funds issue is still pending but she lied under oath about her retirement so now my lawyer needs to subpoena her work to get a copy of the retirement and everything should be done. I am really tired emotionally, mentally, and physically from all of this. The signed divorce papers happened well over a year ago and yet every 4 months I have been taken to court. What is good but frustrating is that I have won every single time but still have to pay a lawyer to defend me each and every time.
I have a girlfriend now as well. Not much to say other than she is my best friends, who I have known for 35 years, cousin. I know her entire family already and have known her for years. I am excited about what this new adventure in my life might hold.
1st BD December 26, 2008 PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008
2nd BD May 23, 2019 Daughter confirms EA Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
she is my best friends, who I have known for 35 years, cousin. I know her entire family already and have known her for years
I like the idea that you know her and where she comes from. Not an absolute guarantee, but much more likely that you won't have any nasty surprises.
If possible, keep this quiet until you finalize this last legal thing - exes are known to ramp it up once they realize you are happy with someone else, and your ex isn't exactly super sane.
I never pushed the process, she rushed everything along.