2020 help me please

[job]

Here is the link to the list of abbreviations. The thread is at the top of this forum:

Abbreviations...updated

IC means individual counseling

[sandi2]

Hi Danee, welcome to the community. Reading about your situation is depressing for me, b/c I see a big shift in how a lot of men see themselves and their role in life. Other H's have come with their personal stories of how things went downhill pretty quickly when they (the man) took a financial hit. I think it can be especially difficult if his W convinces him that it is his role/job to stay home......and basically fill the traditional role of the wife/mother/homemaker. I suspect your self esteem has hit an all time low, and at the moment, it's mostly up to you to pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

What are the ages of your children? How long have you been sleeping in the basement? Does her employment require traveling away from the home?

Before you can expect to save your M, I think you need to focus on saving the man. Maybe I am presumptuous, but I sense that you are carrying some shame. You are apologetic, also, May I suggest that you become aware of how often you say, "I"m sorry" or "I'm ashamed". It's just a little exercise to do over the next few days.

On her side of issue I am poor provider (business went down, looking for job, cannot get a good job so sometimes quit or laid off). I am not good father too harsh in punishment or nag too much. She does not agree on punishment or even yelling or nagging. She hates nagging.

Funny, the word nagging was once associated with wives. Look how far we've come!

Would your W have verbal disagreements over your parenting style.....in front of the kids? If a S or D comes, do you think your W will expect you to deal with the kids in her style of parenting? How often did the kids see you relent, thus freeing them of consequences? Kids quickly learn how to play one parent against the other one, don't they?

Since I am home I try to do cooking not very well. Cleaning house is not great according to her.

Do you check with her about how well you are cleaning, or does she complain.........or dare I say, nag?

She has had to help look after finances for years. I would look for job, try to reboot business and look after household as best as I could. For a while I did not realize it she was doing almost all of this herself and I somehow was not aware of it. I am guilty apologized and am trying to cook better do more housework and still rebooting business and looking for job to help out.

Did this experience cause you to feel shame? That last sentence where you say you are still trying to reboot business and are looking for a job.......to help out, is like a flag waving. It is not daddy's job to help out the family. It's his job to provide, protect, lead, and train. If your business is only bringing in $500 monthly, then get out of it and go to work full time at a job that pays you enough salary to support your family. If you can't find one employment to give sufficient salary, then you work at two or three. You don't quit. You don't quietly accept that you will become a homemaker and hand over your b@lls as she goes off to work. You've got to reclaim yourself as a man, in order to have respect.

Just for the record, I'm not saying a husband & father should not help with chores around the house. I'm saying it should not be his main purpose within the family. The problem comes when he stops being the provider......and his W becomes the breadwinner while he stays home. If he's not going out there to make a living, then she expects him to do the work around the house. Everything gets out of whack, b/c the dynamics have changed....the wife's feelings change for him. She resents him 100% and loses respect for him. So, the MR deteriorates.......until he decides he is going to reclaim the role God designed him to have. Danee, I think you have been beaten down, and feel ashamed or guilty, but maybe the sources of those feelings have not been identified correctly. I encourage you to start being true to yourself. Find your own worth. You aren't going to make any brownie points with your W, b/c she has set herself apart.....and is rebelling against the MR. You aren't completely blameless, but neither do I think it's entirely one-sided. She is not going to help you find your way as a man. You have become dependent upon her, and I think that had a lot of negative effect on the relationship. You cannot rely upon her to help you get employment. This is your mountain to climb.

So now she wants to separate then divorce. We cannot even afford that. So she wants me to move to basement until she can make approx 1/2 of house then give me a buy out.

You don't get it. She is making the decision, not you. You are seeing it being a financial burden on the family, but she is not looking at it from the same viewpoint. I suspect she sees you being totally on your own, buddy. Ask yourself why she dictates where you get to sleep, if she's the one wanting out. I'll tell you why. B/c she wears the pants, and maybe that was forced on her......IDK, but she has a sense of entitlement, and believes the woman(just b/c she is a woman) deserves the MBR. Sadly, that is how many men see it, too. MBR should be the acronym for marital bedroom. Kind of gives it a whole new meaning, doesn't it? Easy to decide who leaves, the one who wants out of the M.

I have seen MC, doc, pastor etc.

How many of these positions were held by women? Do you have a group of male friends you spend time with? Did you and W have couple friends? Do either of you have exclusive or secret friendships with the opposite gender?

I have spent more and more time with MC and asking if I am crazy and I a good catch for ladies.MC says yeah not that attractive.

There is a reason you question your sanity, and your level of attractiveness. I hope your MC did more than just tell you that wasn't attractive. Listen, getting older isn't much fun. Most of us have to "work" harder to be attractive. Feeling unloved, unworthy & unsuccessful can take its toll in more ways than just emotionally. Even medication is limited if we don't get our behinds out of the house and purposely interact with people who have an emotionally, positive influence. Decades ago, we saw a lot of what you've described in "housewives". They didn't feel valued, were depressed, etc. Today, we are seeing these ailments in men who have decided to be a SAHD or lost their job, etc. I encourage you to make a plan of activities that will assist you in feeling better and enjoy life more.

Possibly she is having an emotional affair with another guy but he seems to be cool and waiting as far as I know for me to get out of way. Though he is married too (lol).

Why did you laugh?

Not sure but she is always where she says and at home so perhaps the talking to each other is all they are doing. She mentions this other guy alot as friend. Now I am NOT allowed to ask where she goes and turns off any tracking ability which I merely used to see if she is near a store where I need things. IF I CALL HER too much while she is on business calls then she gets mad. If I dont call and need some food item then its hard.

I always thought the H was really out of touch when he said his W didn't have time for an affair. You need to prepare yourself by detaching. If she's not in an affair, she's looking. For women, I think the biggest part of any affair are the emotional accolades.

Can't say everything in a couple of posts, so keep coming and posting.

[hoosjim]

Hi Danee, just wanted to chime in real quick about being the provider and losing that role. I am absolutely familiar with how that feels, man. While I did not lose my job, I did crash our finances badly during the stock market crash... like, badly enough to put us deeply in debt and endanger our house and our future financial well-being for, at that time, the foreseeable future. As a man, I can tell you, there is no deeper feeling of shame and helplessness than the thought that you have failed as the "provider" for your family. That, along with some health problems, threw me into a tailspin that was a major contributor to my marital problems. Lost my confidence.. all of it, in everything. Went from relative comfort to worrying constantly about how to pay for everything... and it was MY fault. I did that to us! It is incredibly hard to come to grips with.. Not until I got BD'd by my W did i get shaken out of my funk enough to do some serious self-reflection, get religion (both figuratively and literally), get some individual therapy, and snap out of my funk. It can be done. I know it is demoralizing and I know that it $uck$, and I know what that feeling is like but here's the good news: you can turn things around! Financially, even, yes... no situation is beyond hope, but more importantly mentally and emotionally. What happened is in the past. What matters is what you do now, going forward. Find some positive, self-affirming activities or endeavors. Start small if you have to but do it! Get into counselling to deal with your feelings on this because it can and will eat you alive if you don't... I know! Finally, if you are so disposed, pray for guidance... faith and prayer were a huge part of my GAL-ing and recovery and, ultimately, the reconciliation of my MR... the man upstairs is always listening if you are willing to talk.

Best of luck. My thoughts and prayers are with you

[sandi2]

Still around?

[danee]

Thanks everyone. I came here to find support and friends. I have to admit some of the advice i got is kind of harsh because i guess i was not clear in my posts. I am at a place where I get medical professional help around 1-3 times a day and all I hear is what I need to improve. Well now I have improved alot with parenting and how to deal with relationship. I was on the right track before but just did not know how to do it exactly. I have improved greatly according to the MC.

I asked because as many of you have noticed I am so LOOOOWWW in self esteem it is really bad. I asked MC am i really a bad person as I am led to believe and parent. MC says actually that once other women finds out what I am like and how I am i am very desirable. I asked her to be honest and she says definitely but with kids and issues its not right time. Like so many here who need help I am "trained" to be with a wife. As God said man and women unite to become one. Half my life has been with her. So now I have to untrain myself. MC has actually asked my wife why do you want to leave me. Usual answers as discussed here. ILYBNILWY and many other reasons.

I am at home because most jobs i get are not money making and if I have to work at a regular job my wife cannot do her business as she is picking up kids. Her one deal WHEN it goes thru usually is 3 months of my regular salary. Her business is cyclic and hard. So while i reboot all of my options, job, certifications, business, etc. I try to help out the family at home. There are the jobs that did not work out or I was not good enough??? Chemistry was not right for alot. Me again lol? I do NOT mind being at home and wife being the provider is not really a big question until just recently. Yes she said that was bothering her to but as I said if I work then no one to look after kids. PS I still do a little business on the side as someone said here. But at one time it was like 20k a month. She loved me then.

My MC is a women, my doctor is a women, pastor is a man. Varies for everyone else. Have not been on since my wife father died then we had a funeral. He was supposed to go for over 1 year so we mostly expected it. On the same day after the funeral and with my one kid with me - the rest with the mother at restaruant - i got rear ended in car accident. Since this car accident have been going to physio 2 times a week and slowing down on helping around house.

It does rain it pours for me. I get it all. After reading so many posts on here I am starting to realize like the stats say, around 50 percent of people get divorced. My other friend also at the divorce stage of papers said to me his wife and my wife are probably possesd by evil. They are friends who talk alot. We are christians. I have read a few posts on the wayward women. Perhaps mine is maybe not.

To answer Sandi and others. Kids 15, 13 and 8. The 15 year said to me a few times she has been waiting for us to divorce for years. She is exceptionally rude and is quite selfish mostly. She is sweet when she wants to be.
13 year old boy has major tantrums and today hit and kicked his mother. Hit me too. Both older kids say they do NOT want me around. Nice huh.8 year old boy also has tantrums but we are trying. 13 yr is borderline ADHD and takes medicine. 8 is borderline autistic. Two older kids make it really kind of hard right now on me as well as they are rude, dont help out and continually are slobs at home. If I say anything I have to be real careful not to NAG etc. Yes yes i can clean the place up all the time but as a father I FIRMLY believe that kids over the age of 10 have got to help out now. Otherwise what have I taught them. And yes discussed in great detail with female MC and she totally agrees now after being with us that the kids should not be spoiled anymore.

For the spoiling i will address here now. My wife feels that since the kids have these issues it was her fault. I always said from the beginning that is not true and we could not pick our medical conditions for our kids. So here is the cycle that caused alot of issues. When our kids are acting badly I would correct them, first talking, explaining, discussing, explaining etc etc. Then the shouting came later and nagging. "Get ready for school, we are going to be late please get ready please stop playing on devices, eat and brush teeth please stop devices etc etc " screaming GET READY NOW.Get the picture. Then wife would spoil the kids saying its ok take your time, eat more, whats the rush etc etc then I would get angrier. Remember reading this I did not say it right. Think circle where i nag, then wife spoils, then I nag more then wife again overrides me etc. It was a vicious circle. For years we fought like this too. NOW I REALIZE with the help of so many professional people talking that actually it may have NOT been me all the time. The wife and the kids blame me for so much unhappiness all the time. What child would NOT want the parent that gives them what they want. What child wants the person who has rules. MC told me that tonight after another big incident.

Here is the part of the kids and mother. Because mother is so good to them giving in all the time I am the bad guy and so kids dont want to be with me. 15 yr old even said so today when i said will you go out with me when i take you to diner etc. she said nope. both older kids refer to me as "hey or hey you".

Today my 13yr old kicked and hit wife and me as she was taking his internet device away.He was verbally abusive to us for 30 minutes and she had enough. I had to call in cops because i was terrified he was going to do more to us. He was screaming the whole time at us before the police came. And yes this is not the first time and yes we are getting help for him but it has been slow. Trying to see if we can get him help at therapy tomorrow police said it would help. 15 yr old thinks that the talk of separation is causing it. All I hear is how bad a father i am from 13yr old as he goes berserk over devices. First time to call police and they want us to handle it first. We are seeking therapy for all kids or at least the 2 boys. Girl does not seem to need it though rude.

i have not been on lately because of this. Living in basement is really the crappiest. I have a light and clock. I get up early to help with lunches while my back hurts. My mattress is crap since we dont have money to buy a new mattress.Room is cold and not even a tv. Yes I almost feel like i am divorced already. If we do go through with it as wife says she still wants even tonight then i need to get money out of house (not dividing as she wants to keep it for kids). so that I can be off. MC told me tonight she really thinks I should not be with wife anymore to wake her up. I have been here 3 weeks in basement doing the detached thing as much as possible. No improvement really except she is not telling me constantly to get out or move to basement.

For the many of you going through what i am going through you are not alone. I am still going through it and if wife would come to her senses we could be so strong together now with our kids. I know let go right. GAL. Trying trying trying. If only our spouses would wake up right? That is the update for now. Sigh

[ovrrnbw]

I know you are in pain, you have my sympathy in that regard. But my sympathy won't do anything for you. Only you can do something for you. Your world sounds quite chaotic. You have the ability to change that. People will treat you how you let them treat you. Tired of living in a basement? Change it. Tired of being yelled at? Don't allow it. There's an old saying that you should never wrestle with pigs. Everyone gets muddy but the pigs like it.

Therapy won't be a replacement for the true foundation your kids need. You have an opportunity to become a better parent that you must seize. Lead by example.

[SteveLW]

Danee,

Please do not take the advice as harsh. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear, no doubt about it. There were a lot of hard truths I had to hear, both from my WAW and from others on this forum, when I was in my sitch. And I was one of the lucky ones that was able to DB and get my sitch turned around.

The truth is sometimes hard to hear. That doesn't mean it is those providing being harsh, but being real. I know when your self-esteem is low you'd prefer if everyone handled you with kid gloves, but coddling never helped anyone.

What I can tell you is that we do support you! We've been through it. We know how low you can get. And how much it hurts. And how you feel like you are not worthy. But please read the sticky thread "You will not die". While this is the most difficult thing you will ever go through, and none of us would wish it on our worst enemy, it is something you can and will come through.

Our frankness in this forum is for your support. We don't want to sugarcoat things and then have reality smack you square in the face. I can tell you that the frank advice and support I got here was made more useful by the 2x4s I also received. Accountability is as important as support and guidance. After all, we need to be called out when our mistakes set us back in our DB journey.

Danee, please continue to post. Feel free to tell us if the advice is "too harsh". The last thing I want to do is to advise someone that doesn't want my advice. I've told other posters here that if you would prefer I not comment on their sitch to please just say so. But if you want me to post or you want my input then please do not tell me how to provide that.

Danee, we've all been where you are. It is horrible. But trust me when I say frank advice and being called out when you set yourself back is your best path forward.

[SteveLW]

Danee, one thing I want to address is your W being possessed with evil. My W and I are very religious. We are Christians that are very active in our congregation. We are very committed and devout. SO it was difficult when my W went wayward. She was still attending church but I could tell she was struggling with her fleshly desires and what she knew to be true and right.

I too was tempted to think of her as possessed. As lost. As being pulled into the world by the devil. But another Christian anti-D author helped me to realize that what my W was trying to do was to be happy. And while her pursuit of happiness was stressful and painful for me, that it was nothing personal. It was simply her doing what she felt she needed to do to be happy.

As a Christian you are well aware of I Cor. 13. And what the Bible says about love. What love does and doesn't do. "Love thinketh no evil." Your W, the mother of your kids, is not evil. She is simply trying to find her way through the darkness like the rest of us. She is reaching out for how to be happy in an imperfect world. She is trying to find a way to survive in a world that pulls her in one direction, and her spiritual beliefs pull her in another.

Love her enough to let her try to find that happiness....no matter what it means for your MR. One other thing this Christian based anti-D author made me realize is that if comes down between the choice of her leaving to be happy, or staying and remaining miserable, do I really want the latter? I had to admit, when I put my fear and anxiety aside, that I really did not want her to stay and be miserable. If those were the only two choices than her leaving to be happy and my moving on, even though it wasn't what I wanted, was really the only way forward.

I can tell you that it is unlikely for your W to "wake up". Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Giving her time and space, removing all pressure and pursuit, over time can have a positive impact. Sometimes it can even save your MR. AS you rightly pointed out, if you DB well you have about a 50/50 chance of saving your MR. What I can also tell you is that if you pressure and pursue then your chances fall to less than 1%.

Hang in there because what I can tell you is that it does get better. You will come through. Rely on your faith in God. You know he has a plan for you and your life. Trust that. Look at poor Job (the man in the OT, not the poster here!). He lost everything, and had a W that told him to curse God and die. Yet he persevered and came out the other side even better than he was before. Trust in God.

[danee]

thanks for all of the different advice. i will have to digest it. I really appreciate it. Yes my life is chaotic and my MC and doctor who both talk to me almost everyday if I can afford it are helping me. I also have the church.

One thing to add about the christian thing. Yes I do realize that wife is doing things to make herself happy. And amazingly as I bet most of you here in trouble, want your spouse to be happy.
My other christian friend going through divorce now and his ex are friends with my wife. Funny huh. Stats show people with similar situations will affect others for divorce.
BUT he told me something funny. He and his wife went through this weird religious event where his wife's voice actually changed to someone else he had never heard of. It was really creepy and she was in middle of exorcism sort of. I dont know whole story but he was scared so badly. Around that time his wife was cleared and wanted to try the marriage again. Around 6 months later, the ex wife had turned into someone he did not recognize again! It was so scary.
That is basis of my statement about possessed wife. take care all and hoping your divorce busting is going better.

[SteveLW]

danee,

I am not sure what you are suggesting. Are you suggesting that this guy's W was actually possessed by a demon?