22 Years Gone Part 3

[rooskers]

22 Years Gone Part 1
22 Years Gone Part 2

Summary:

My XW and I had been together since we met in college back in 1997. We got married in 2002 and had our daughter in 2006. In 2008 she had an affair on me with the husband of a couple we were really good friends with. She was the one who pursued him and he broke it off to save his marriage with his wife. I was in hell for 4 months until she agreed to work on the relationship, which I thought had been going great for the next 10 years. A year ago D14 and myself had noticed she was pulling away but thought it was because of how busy we all were. May 23 XW decided to BD me right before my birthday and a big Hawaii trip we had been planning for 4 years. She said it was not because of a guy but D14 told me she had been seeing her hold hands and spending a lot of time with her best friends dad. XW moved out one day after BD and has never been back or talked about the R or seen me other than at D14 drop off since then. XW had an appointment with a divorce attorney within a week of leaving, so to protect myself financially and to protect my time with D14 I contacted my own lawyer. I had my lawyer draw up the paperwork and when XW got back from the Hawaii trip she was given the papers and she signed them and within a couple weeks it was over.

It has been a little over 8 months now and the relationship between XW and D14 is hostile at best. XW has decided to try to amend the divorce and is trying to change the financial, custody, and visitation agreements that were signed off by the judge in July. As a result of this D14 has retained her own lawyer and will be trying to amend the visitation schedule to the least possible amount of time the judge will allow her to spend with her mom. D14 is also talking to the lawyer about her rights during visitations with her mom. XW has responded to all of this with accusations I have emotionally abused her and has hinted at sexual and physical abuse. I have gone extremely dim only communicating with XW when legally necessary as it relates to D14. I wish my XW well and hope she can move on. Regardless of her decisions I am moving forward and creating new dreams and goals that assume I am a single dad.

[rooskers]

I am a little nervous because my ex mother in law is coming up for a visit. I "won" her in the divorce because my XW has disowned her mom and is accusing her of abuse alongside me. I do not want D14 to lose her grandma because of the divorce so I will learn to navigate a relationship that is fraught with unknowns. D14's grandma has been through a lot and admits that she herself should probably be in therapy. I know that it is a very real possibility that her and my XW will patch things up even if it isn't in a healthy way. I will just be sure to set extremely strong boundaries so I don't get sucked into their possible drama.

On a good note I haven't received any accusatory or threatening emails from my XW in awhile. Poor D14 thinks this is only the calm before the storm. I wonder if XW is finally realizing that her problem is not her relationship with me, that is over, but her relationship with D14. If she can only realize that I am not the enemy and neither is D14. She should look in the mirror if she truly wants to find the source of her problems. It is a difficult thing to look at oneself fully and be willing to see the darkness that exists. I have learned I am capable of anger I never thought possible. It frightened me immensely.

[DS9]

Thinking of you buddy. I'll be back later with some support and thoughts as I'm a little jammed at the moment. Stay strong Roo!

[usc]

Don't we all wish they would just look in the mirror to see their problems lol! Can't agree more brother. Hope you are getting a nice break with the calm at least.

[AnotherStander]

On a good note I haven't received any accusatory or threatening emails from my XW in awhile. Poor D14 thinks this is only the calm before the storm. I wonder if XW is finally realizing that her problem is not her relationship with me, that is over, but her relationship with D14. If she can only realize that I am not the enemy and neither is D14. She should look in the mirror if she truly wants to find the source of her problems. It is a difficult thing to look at oneself fully and be willing to see the darkness that exists. I have learned I am capable of anger I never thought possible. It frightened me immensely.

She's on a roller coaster and will be for quite some time. Don't be fooled into thinking that because she's in a valley right now that she will stay there. Oh no, she will climb to the next peak and be in full "crazy" mode again. You've got to focus on detaching and leave her to figure out her own mess. You said above "on a good note" when in fact it shouldn't matter to you. Who cares if she sends you accusations and threats, file them in a "crazy ex wife" folder and go about your day. I think you're still giving her more control over your life, your PMA and your outlook then you should. Detach, detach, detach!

[kas99]

You're a better person than me by far. I don't wish her well at all.

[rooskers]

Who cares if she sends you accusations and threats, file them in a "crazy ex wife" folder and go about your day. I think you're still giving her more control over your life, your PMA and your outlook then you should. Detach, detach, detach!

You are exactly right AS and that is what I am working on in IC. I think I am just extra triggered right now because my ex mother in law is coming up tomorrow and for some reason it is causing problems in my detaching. In addition to that it is close to Valentine's Day and even though she never got me anything or did anything for me on that day, I always did. I will reflect on why this is happening and try to let the feelings pass. My theme this year is "Let it Go!" Just as she is on a roller coaster, I realize I am on one myself and I need to understand that I have the choice at anytime to get off the ride. Thank you AS for staying with me.

You've got to focus on detaching and leave her to figure out her own mess.

I am very proud of my accomplishment in leaving her to figure out her own mess. I have not engaged her at all and never respond to her emails unless my lawyer tells me to address certain things or it involves D14.

usc thanks for checking in with me.

DS don't worry I know you are going through a lot as well.

kas99 I think this is easy because you are not attached to her in anyway. I loved her with all my heart for 22 years and so I understand that the lens I see her thru is extremely distorted. Logically I see she is not the person I thought she was but my heart wants to see her different. Some day I hope my heart and mind can come to some sort of understanding with each other.

[DS9]

Hey Roo,

Good luck with D's grandma. It's a good thing she's on board and like you said, very important to maintain that for your D.

I think AS nailed what should be your mantra for whether or not XW is nice or not. Keep that even keel irrespective of what she says. She cannot hurt you anymore, and her threats mean nothing unless you give them credence and react to them. All you can control is your reaction, or lack thereof. Look at my sitch with the storage saga and the veiled threats. I didnt react and with the guidance of the forum responded in even tones. It worked - no backlash.

I've been meaning to ask what else you've been doing for GAL? Any particular things you're doing for yourself only? Did you get any bonsai?

Stay strong buddy.

Cheers DS

[rooskers]

Good luck with D's grandma. It's a good thing she's on board and like you said, very important to maintain that for your D.

D14's grandma visited and it helped to gather even more insight to what my XW is feeling. XW accuses her mom in emails of emotionally abusing her, asks her mom "why are you hurting me," and accuses her of physically assaulting her in Hawaii. XW does not feel safe near her mom and is a victim. XW has never done anything wrong in her life and hasn't deserved the abuse everyone has inflicted on her. She did make a small comment in her email that she has made mistakes. XW is glad to have finally met her new friends that understand and accept who she is. She wishes her mom good luck but for her safety can never have a relationship with her. She then tells her mom if you want a relationship you have to admit and agree with me on how you abused me all these years. Her mom replied and countered all the allegations and even apologized to her for some she felt were true. XW just told her mom "those are your perceptions and you are allowed to have them even if they are wrong and mine are right."

She has told her mom she had to leave me because for 22 years she ran and worked out all the time to escape the verbal/emotional/physical/sexual abuse I would inflict on her. She resented the fact she was the primary bread winner and was tired of asking permission to buy things. She felt that since she made the majority of money she should be able to buy anything she wanted. She told her mom the only reason I had stayed in the marriage was because I wanted her money. She doesn't understand what she did wrong to warrant me taking D14 away from her but thinks it was probably to get revenge on her for leaving.

She believes she is healthy and doing great at work. She is even getting more advanced training to be promoted into a position that will require more of her expertise and time. She tells her mom she is depressed, can hardly concentrate at work, afraid of getting fired, has insomnia, has anxiety, faints a lot, has amnesia, and needs D14 to have a reason to live. Yes, all of that was in the same email and to XW is not contradictory at all. She tells her mom how poor she is and that she won't be able to afford her lease without getting a roommate and even then she will most likely have to move out and stay with one of her friends. She also said her new position gave her a very nice raise so she is making more money.

What did I get out of reading all those emails? I am glad my XW left me and I truly hope she can find peace in her life. Almost all of the above was not true and the allegations that had some truth to it were so distorted you couldn't really tell what was true about and what wasn't. In her fantasy world everyone in her life the past 22 years was abusing her. Why would she not want to leave? I can tell her and show her in a million ways I am not mad at her but if she feels I am it doesn't matter. I can tell her I love her and want to be with her for her in a million ways but if she doesn't trust me it does no good. Reality or fantasy she was miserable and didn't want to share any of her pain with her family. So she ran until she couldn't run anymore. She then left and found a new family for a clean slate.

I've been meaning to ask what else you've been doing for GAL? Any particular things you're doing for yourself only? Did you get any bonsai?

GAL is difficult while raising D14 full-time and I am not able to get out and socialize much but I am working on things around the house. The front yard automatic sprinklers need fixing and I am trying to get raised beds to plant a garden next year in the backyard. I have been getting back into cooking and am proud to say D14 and I eat a homemade meal every night at the table for dinner. When the weather permits I like to go hiking. This weekend I decided to get a brand new bed, nightstand, and dresser for my bedroom. So far this has helped my sleep at night tremendously. My room is now mine and not a ghostly presence of my marriage bedroom. I can tell the interior decorating is losing my XW's influence and is taking shape from D14 and my own tastes. It has been fun to see the changes. I am starting to shape some of the plants in my house to practice my bonsai skills.

[rooskers]

So I just got an email from XW. Remember I have been accused of causing extreme distancing, abuse, controlling behavior, parental alienation, manipulation, etc.

"Does D14 want to spend time with me Friday, or this weekend?"

This is XW's visitation time with D14 so technically D14 should go with her. If I ask D14 what she would like and respond to my XW with her answer, which will likely be no, then I will likely get an email accusing me of not following the parenting plan and preventing her from seeing D14. If I don't respond I usually get an email that says I am not being a good co-parent or communicating with her in regards to D14. If I have D14 take care of it since it is her time with her mom then I usually receive an email saying I put D14 in the middle of a parenting decision. If I tell XW this would be a great question for D14 and you should ask her then I get an email telling me visitation is a legal agreement between the two of us and not D14. D14 therapist has asked XW to leave me out of things like this because it causes an unhealthy communication triangle but I still get these emails that either ask me for permission to see her, ask me what the plans are, or something like it. I can't seem to escape being put in a no win situation.

Any help would be appreciated since I have tried all of the above and am running out of ideas.

[AnotherStander]

Roo, it's your XW's legal time with D, correct? Then you should facilitate it. You are legally bound to anyway. Explain to D that you don't have a choice, legally you are obligated to make sure W has her time with D.

As for it being a no-win situation, you should be thick-skinned enough from your XW's behavior by now that you know it's not a reflection on you. If she starts to rant and rave then tell her "we are not married and I am under ZERO obligation to take your abuse and I WILL NOT tolerate it. Then end the convo.

If I ask D14 what she would like and respond to my XW with her answer, which will likely be no, then I will likely get an email accusing me of not following the parenting plan and preventing her from seeing D14.

And she would have a point. It's a legal agreement, it's not about whether D wants to go or not. If you have to make her go against her will then that's what you should do.

If I don't respond I usually get an email that says I am not being a good co-parent or communicating with her in regards to D14.

And she would be right.

If I have D14 take care of it since it is her time with her mom then I usually receive an email saying I put D14 in the middle of a parenting decision.

And she would be right again.

If I tell XW this would be a great question for D14 and you should ask her then I get an email telling me visitation is a legal agreement between the two of us and not D14.

Right again.

Do you see the one option that you DIDN'T list? The correct and legal one. You tell XW that D will be ready at the appointed time, then you tell D that her mother will be picking her up at X time on X day and that she needs to be ready. Period. "Oh but I don't want to blah blah blah!" Validate. "I am sorry, I know this is difficult for you." "So I don't have to go?" "You still have to go, it may be difficult but it is the right thing to do. She is still your mother and she wants to spend time with you."

D14 therapist has asked XW to leave me out of things like this because it causes an unhealthy communication triangle but I still get these emails that either ask me for permission to see her, ask me what the plans are, or something like it. I can't seem to escape being put in a no win situation.

I think she's wrong. But ask your lawyer if you're not sure.

[DS9]

Hey Roo

How are you buddy? I'm glad to hear you splurged and got a new bedroom suite.

Those emails really shed a light on the bizarre thinking patterns of these MLC people don't they.

If the fresh litigation the XW instigated is going ahead, and your D is continuing to resist going to her mum, then i think you need to take some urgent legal advice about the prospects of varying the agreement to take your D's wishes into account, and to tie up this seeming loose end where XW keeps contacting you.

Get advice too on what this children's lawyer's role is for your D, and ask your L to clearly tell you what are your responsibilities under the current agreement if D doesn't want to go.

I see you're struggling mate but I think this is a legal issue outside the scope of what we here in the forum can guide you with.

Keep us posted and good luck Roo

Cheers DS

[rooskers]

I went with my usual reply and said D14 will be ready for pick up at he agreed upon time.

AS this was more of a rant than anything else. You said on almost all the replies that she would have a point and you are right. That was actually my point that if I answered her actual question which was "does D14 want to visit with me" then I was screwed no matter what I did. By doing what I usually do and what you suggested I don't really answer her question I just tell her what I am going to do. More than anything I am realizing this is what completely destroyed our marriage. If she asked me something no matter how I answered or not answered she took offense to it and became the victim. If I just took an action then she felt it abusive in some way. An example would be she wanted to know if she was allowed to buy uniforms for work. If I said yes then she said see I have to ask for approval, if I said no we are tight on budget this week then I was controlling, if I said you don't need my permission then I wasn't husband showing leadership, if I said anything about this question being unfair and putting me in role of a parent rather than a partner then she accused me of being angry. Always love your advice AS and working on becoming thicker skinned but I hate that she always asks questions that seem designed to trap me.

DS I am not worried legally about any of this. I have already talked to my lawyer and he is not concerned about anything. This was more of a rant than anything. We both have our lawyers and D14's lawyers role is to inform and protect her rights as a minor. She is also there to make sure D14's voice is heard in the courtroom. My lawyer informed me my responsibilities are to present D14 at the agreed upon time and encourage D14 to go to the visitation. Both my lawyer and D14 therapist said to never physically force her to go as that can be considered child abuse. The problem is not getting her to go when she doesn't want to, the problem is she never stays for the whole visit and then I am blamed for it. My lawyer said well XW has physical custody and if she brings her back early then you don't need to worry about it as long as you aren't the one picking her up or convincing her to come back early.

I just found out the reason she was asking. She doesn't want D14 over this weekend because she has a roommate moving in who she has never even met. The roommate supposedly passed a background check at her workplace, which means she has a job so that is a bonus. This is a huge blow to D14 since her mother just told her tonight that the roommate will be moved in this Friday. D14 is mad because she felt her mom could have told her she was looking for a roommate awhile ago and felt she deserved more than a day and a half notice. I don't mind because this seems to be a wise financial decision for XW and D14 isn't really over there long enough for it to affect her too much. I just wish XW was more transparent with things. Why would she want to hide something like this until the last second.

[rooskers]

D14 is cautiously optimistic about the new roommate. She went to her room and played video games with her and they talked about the music they liked. XW apparently just stayed downstairs and didn't engage either of them. I think this may be a little help sent from heaven so D14 has a person to talk to when she is over for visitation. That is the good news.

The bad news is XW told D14 that she is going to be moving in with a friend in a couple months. This friend of XW's has a husband and two children. They have a four bedroom house and XW will be staying in the 4th bedroom and when D14 comes over for visitation D14 will sleep in the bedroom and her mom will sleep somewhere else in the house on a futon. D14 is not very happy about this situation because she doesn't want to go live at some strange families house.

D14 did get angry during visitation and talked to her mom about a lot of things but one of them that stood out was when she said "I can't believe you told dad you have been faking your love for him since your last affair 10 years ago." Hearing this D14 said she smirked at her and said "oh, I have been faking it a lot longer than that." Towards the end of their argument she told D14 "I know what is best for you and you are a spoiled little brat." Once again XW dropped off D14 early and once again I got an email blaming me for it.

I continue to work on myself in IC. Both D14's therapist and my own therapist are working on getting us to except XW for who she is. We don't need to agree with her actions, values, morals, beliefs, but accept that this is the person she is and we can't change that. We both need to let go of the idea of who we wanted her to be.

Today D14 is getting a Rotary Youth Leadership award for her leadership and hard work at school and in the community. She will have to give a speech and it will be at a fancy hotel with lots of guests so she is kind of nervous. I know she will do great. Her mom has chosen not to attend the event. It will be alright because I will be there to support her, show her how proud I am, and most importantly that she is loved.

[AnotherStander]

By doing what I usually do and what you suggested I don't really answer her question I just tell her what I am going to do. More than anything I am realizing this is what completely destroyed our marriage. If she asked me something no matter how I answered or not answered she took offense to it and became the victim. If I just took an action then she felt it abusive in some way. An example would be she wanted to know if she was allowed to buy uniforms for work. If I said yes then she said see I have to ask for approval, if I said no we are tight on budget this week then I was controlling, if I said you don't need my permission then I wasn't husband showing leadership, if I said anything about this question being unfair and putting me in role of a parent rather than a partner then she accused me of being angry. Always love your advice AS and working on becoming thicker skinned but I hate that she always asks questions that seem designed to trap me.

I 100% get what you are saying, even though you know it's not about you it still hurts to be treated like she treats you. It is frankly emotional and mental abuse. You are handling things really well, I definitely respect your ability to keep cool and calm and collected in the face of her behavior.

the problem is she never stays for the whole visit and then I am blamed for it. My lawyer said well XW has physical custody and if she brings her back early then you don't need to worry about it as long as you aren't the one picking her up or convincing her to come back early.

That's exactly what I was going to say. If W brings her back early then so be it (assuming it doesn't mess with your schedule). If she wants to blame you for HER bringing D back early, well that's just laughable.

It sure sounds like she has some very real mental issues. I do some work in a mental hospital, as an architect but I am around the patients a lot and observe their behavior. The really scary ones are the ones that have a very normal outward middle upper class appearance and can engage you with very normal conversation. Then they hit you with the "crazy". It's so weird and unexpected that it could easily make you think you're the crazy one, that you are hearing wrong or interpreting wrong. It's one thing being in a mental hospital because you know who the patients are, but these people out in the real world could really cause some havoc. What you describe about your W reminds me of some of those patients. I'm sure she's not in IC either, but man she sure could use it.

D14 did get angry during visitation and talked to her mom about a lot of things but one of them that stood out was when she said "I can't believe you told dad you have been faking your love for him since your last affair 10 years ago." Hearing this D14 said she smirked at her and said "oh, I have been faking it a lot longer than that." Towards the end of their argument she told D14 "I know what is best for you and you are a spoiled little brat." Once again XW dropped off D14 early and once again I got an email blaming me for it.

That is borderline abusive behavior. I really feel for your D, I mean this is her mother and how sad to be treated that way by someone she wants to admire and respect and aspire to. It's terrible.

Both D14's therapist and my own therapist are working on getting us to except XW for who she is. We don't need to agree with her actions, values, morals, beliefs, but accept that this is the person she is and we can't change that. We both need to let go of the idea of who we wanted her to be.

She sounds like poison to me. My personal experience with toxic relatives is that they can't be changed and the best approach is to cut them out of your life. Do your and D's ICs tell you to accept her and welcome her, or are they saying to accept that she is a toxic person and move to cut her out of your lives?

Today D14 is getting a Rotary Youth Leadership award for her leadership and hard work at school and in the community. She will have to give a speech and it will be at a fancy hotel with lots of guests so she is kind of nervous. I know she will do great.

That's fantastic! Proud daddy moment for sure!

Her mom has chosen not to attend the event.

Wow you have absolutely got to be kidding me. Could she be any worse of a mother.

[rooskers]

I'm sure she's not in IC either, but man she sure could use it. Do your and D's ICs tell you to accept her and welcome her, or are they saying to accept that she is a toxic person and move to cut her out of your lives?

She tells D14 she is in therapy and working through the abuse she has been put through by everyone in her life. Parents, college friends, high school friends, boyfriends, girlfriends, ex-husband and everyone else connected to her past. IC can only help if you are being honest on what the problems are. I was told that her previous therapist will not work with her anymore after she lied to him repeatedly and put him in a position that put his license at risk.

My therapist is working on me accepting that XW has some deep issues that she needs to work on alone and with a professional. I need to accept that the divorce was the right decision given the circumstances and the most loving thing I can do for myself, my daughter and my XW is to cut XW out of my life as much as possible and give XW the space to work on healing if she so chooses. I am also continuing to be a pillar of strength and consistency in D14's life.

D14 has to accept the fact that she will have to have her mom in her life until she is 18 and then can make her own decisions on whether she would be better cutting all ties or not. Her IC is working on D14 accepting that her mom has issues that have nothing to do with her. She is working on D14 learning how to set up strong boundaries, being assertive but respectful in her communication and finally to learning to live with someone who may have a serious mental disorder. D14's mom requested the therapy notes from D14's counseling sessions which the therapist was legally obligated to provide her. I can't tell you what was in the notes but rest assured her mom has read them all and has been using D14's pain, fears, and hurt as a weapon against D14 during visitations. In response D14's therapist and lawyer have told D14 her rights in this state allow D14 to consent to her own mental health which will enable her to fill out her own paperwork as if she were an emancipated minor. D14 felt she needed this because her mom told her she was going to seek legal action to prevent D14 from seeing her current therapist and also so D14 can keep her therapy sessions private.

[AnotherStander]

Wow!!!! Well I'm glad you and D are getting some good help but frankly the more you say about XW the more scary she sounds. It sounds like the therapists don't see her as a danger to anyone? People who have mental health issues can have extremely violent outbursts with zero warning, that's how most of them end up institutionalized. I would be extremely concerned! Originally I said you should do what you can to facilitate visits between her and D, but now I'm not so sure. I mean legally you have to, but maybe you should petition to allow only supervised visitation.

I can't tell you what was in the notes but rest assured her mom has read them all and has been using D14's pain, fears, and hurt as a weapon against D14 during visitations.

That is really disturbing. Are you sure you can't go back to court with D and petition for emancipation? She sounds very mature, I would think the court would be inclined to back her up on this.

[rooskers]

Yesterday was 10 months to the day she said "I don't love you, your a negative person, I don't want to be married, I have been faking it for years, take care of D14" and left. Since that time she has never brought up our relationship or has even asked to talk about it. She called up my mom and my best friend for 35 years the morning after BD and told them I am leaving him, it isn't because of a guy, and I want a clean slate. It still shocks me that after 22 years she just up and left one day. The only communication between us has been emails about D14. It still seems so weird that the week before she left she was talking about our future and the Hawaii trip we had planned and then the next thing I new she left.

[rooskers]

I would like some opinions on this one. I have said before that XW has decided she would like to move in with a friend on May 1. This friend has been divorced and recently just got married to another guy. She has children one of which is a teenage boy who is similar in age as D14. The friend, new husband, children all live in a 4 bedroom house and wife plans on taking one of the rooms. This is not a living situation like a separate living space downstairs or in a completely separate part of the house. The friend is also a counselor that has been coaching XW for a year on how to leave me, on the language to use for abuse, extreme distancing, and things like that. D14 told her mom last August that she had no wish to see or hang out with this person at all. This will force D14 to not only see her but live in her house with her her family and under her rules.

Questions/Concerns so you know where I am coming from ~

1) If D14 and the son fight who is in charge of the discipline? Friend, Husband, or XW
2) If son does something inappropriate who can D14 turn to in this case? Her mom has absolute trust in her friend.
3) If D14 wants to get something to eat who does she ask since it isn't her mom's house but her friends?
4) Will the friend and her husband have the right to discipline her since it is their house.
5) D14 will have absolutely no private space since she will be sharing a room with her mom and the other part of the house is her friends family space.

I have so many other concerns but I am trying to see if this is due to anger at my XW or if these are legitimate concerns. I truly feel that this is not personal but truly what is in the best interest of D14. Having her own place with a roommate seems reasonable, if she gets married while I wouldn't like it that would be my own issue to work through, but moving in with a newly married couple with children from a previous marriage and one being a teenage son? Please let me know what you think.

[DS9]

Hey Roo,

I think the very first enquiry you might want to make is with your L to see if these changes to XW's living circumstances justify revisiting the agreement, or making visits subject to them not taking place at the new house, given your concerns. You might need hard evidence to justify your concerns, but I'd definitely relay all this to your L and get proper advice.

As to your queries, I think these touch on legal rights and responsibilities, so please talk to your L about this and get the right advice the first time so you can plan your actions or mitigating steps properly on a solid base.

I'm sorry if that 10 month anniversary was tough for you mate. You know though all that BS she spouted is just a history rewrite in justification for leaving. I think the more extreme the allegations and stories in the rewrite, the more we can be sure the LBS was a great person - kind of an exponentially inverse paradox or something! Mate, your XW's rewrite was pretty extreme so the only inference we can draw is you were one helluva AMOAFWL!

Keep that chin up DB brother! You're doing so well mate!

Cheers DS