Core I’m of the opinion if you’re going to D it’s better to do it when the kids are young. They could care less about a normal marriage as long as there isn’t screaming fights. I think kids adjust better the younger they are. My kids had the rug pulled out from them right in the middle of high school. Instead of thinking about prom, graduation, and choosing where to go to college they are full of anxiety and sadness. Their grades dropped and their future doesn’t look so bright. Sad because S19 is brilliant (32 on the ACT) and now barely puts in an effort in college.
With regards to the "illusion of action" analogy and your thoughts on pulling the D trigger-
I have been in limbo for 17 months. I spent the first 5-6 months (before I found this site) flailing and not understanding what was going on, nearly leaving home twice, that's how bad it was. I was an emotional and mental wreck, close to the edge of not wanting to continue on.
The people here speak from experience. They see these situations unfold countless times. Please listen to them. They know what they are talking about.
If you want to have a shot at saving your marriage, if you want to stand, and I think you do - slow down. Please. Realize that your emotions are all over the place, and that making a decision when you are in a highly emotional state might be something you regret later when you have calmed down and the emotion has passed.
Some of the decisions you may have to make will have significant consequences. I highly advise taking time to stop and assess before doing so.
Why not take the time you've been given and work on yourself? D or not, your situation is going to take a long time to resolve.
The pain won't go away overnight. It really is a marathon.
Very true LH and Ironwill, and the illusion of action thing is one of the biggest struggles.
As an example, wife wants space now, after asking to reconcile and is no longer talking of D. So I feel like I should be the H that I want to be or a least act friendly. Is complimenting looks, doing small things like helping with groceries, asking about her day a bad thing at this point or the right thing? If no one is telling her she's pretty, she'll find someone to tell her. Maybe she needs a man of action to take charge and fix our sitch. I gotta do something, the time and space took my love mostly away. If both of us are out of love, there is 0 chance.
Sitting at home at times in the same room not talking would only prove to her that she's making the right choice. If I'm the man I want to be, I'd be happier and maybe more attractive. I'm not saying pursue and get flowers and such but i can't see us going from not chatting and avoiding each other to her suddenly saying "I want to make this work".
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core, you are in a tricky situation, as was I. My W had "Stepped out" but was not completely gone. I, too, had been in a SSM where there was a lot of neglect and where there was not even really friendship anymore. Forget about intimacy, we didn't even really like each other. Talk about a challenge!
The problem is, is that she probably, like most WAWs/WWs, not only has no positive feelings for you, but her feelings/reactions towards you are likely actually negative. As such, it may not be helpful to "pursue" her or do things like initiate touch/intimacy at this point as it may actually tend to drive her away. My own W used to talk about wanting to recoil when I made my first attempts to start touching her. It is a delicate situation. This is why DB-ing teaches detachment and improvement of ones' self until the WAS is ready to come back and attempt reconciliation. You also need to be aware of the "pursuit and distance" dichotomy. We want what we cannot have. Be a little mysterious and dont always be so available. Worried about "sitting around in the same room not saying anything"?... Then get out of the house and go do something fun, for you! You don't even necessarily have to tell her where you are going... I understand you have small children so there are some parental overlays and responsibilities, here, but you can just say "I'm going out"... If she asks where, be elusive. You can tell her when you are coming back (and be punctual), but let her wonder a little... and let her see you cheerful and smiling! don't be somber and sulky. When your W is ready... and at the point she truly wants to commit to saving the MR, you can stop being so mysterious, and start inviting her to come along when you go places... "W, I am going out to grab a bit to eat and have a drink at _____________, would you like to come along?" But you have to be careful... a recovering WAW/WW can be easily spooked. They will show signs of warming up to you but if you come on too strong they will got spooked and shut you out again. Go slowly! Pursuit, Distance! Do what works!
If she IS truly interested in R-ing, and has shown such signs, and you know she is no longer contacting any OM, you have to read the tea leaves a little bit to see where you are. DB-ing is great at coaching you to journal and use trial and error to see what works. Pay attention to what actions/behaviors get a positive response and what ones dont (and, again, the metric here is different if she is wayward-- sometimes doing the RIGHT thing will make a WW angrier and more contrary.) At any rate, confidence is key, as is being gradual and only moving forward when you get a positive response. DB coaching (If it is still available) and IC/MC-ing can be invaluable guides in this regard. Additionally, and it seems kind of cheesy/silly, but the "pick up" community actually has a lot of good insight into attracting women if you cut through the BS and focus on the basics of establishing intimacy. Google "art of touch with women" or "kino" for insight on the progression of touch-- it is ingrained in us and there is a pattern that is natural and applies with most folks. In my own case, it took all of these resources, and the grace of God, for my W and i to re-establish intimacy and attraction. I was first, as the BD really shook me out of my fog and made me realize i still had deep feelings for my W, but my W eventually came around as well... but it was slow. We had to start liking each other first... which meant doing some fun things together, had to re-establish trust (which is crucial for true intimacy) and, of course, had to get comfortable touching each other and being intimate physically (not just sex) again.
Hope this is helpful to you... I would advise you to get some outside support... either DB coaching if it is still available and/or some IC (and MC, when the time comes and your W is willing) with a good, pro-marriage MC (preferably one who is also a sex therapist or specialist in intimacy issues). And don't be afraid to seek out resources on the internet as well, as i have indicated.
My own threads might be useful to you as well, as i do see some similarities with your sitch... but I would note that i myself relied heavily on my outside support/counselors/coaches.
Last edited by hoosjim; 02/03/2004:48 PM.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Lol. We just explained to you the illusion of action and right in your next post you say “I gotta do something”.
I wouldn’t strictly compliment her looks but you can certainly compliment her. Her parenting, how clean the house looks etc. Nobody said to sit in the same room and not talk. If you’re giving her space you shouldn’t be in the same room very often.
When she said she wanted to make it work. That is how she felt AT THAT MOMENT. If you are not seeing it in her actions then most likely she doesn’t feel that way anymore.
Uchen early on hung on dearly to his wife’s words only to realize later they didn’t mean anything. How did he realize? When they weren’t congruent with her actions.
You’re new and your learning and will be an expert years down the road.
So glad for you both HJ and LH. Really got me thinking and yes, I've fairly quiet around her, I thought that was DBing. She rarely initiates a chat so I don't either.
We seem to talk more and more each day, not too much about ourselves and a lot about the kids. So I'm glad to see its ok to chat in general if its kept light here. Going to Google the "Art of Touch" you mentioned HJ and read more on your sitch. Besides her touching me once and accidental contact when passing a baby, its been non existant.
I'm still all over the map on what to do and other sites and people have so much different advice.
I am going to IC which is helping a bit personally. She's all for me having R chats with W based on Ws history so it is tough to ignore that advice from him.
You've both rekindled some hope for me here. Physical ailments are setting in from my stress here which is making me want to rush this in either direction.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core I’m of the opinion if you’re going to D it’s better to do it when the kids are young. They could care less about a normal marriage as long as there isn’t screaming fights. I think kids adjust better the younger they are. My kids had the rug pulled out from them right in the middle of high school. Instead of thinking about prom, graduation, and choosing where to go to college they are full of anxiety and sadness. Their grades dropped and their future doesn’t look so bright. Sad because S19 is brilliant (32 on the ACT) and now barely puts in an effort in college.
This is why I am trying to keep the peace during our in-house separation, I have a teenage daughter and the other one turns 13 soon. They're at an age where a lot can go wrong and they need stability.
Right now with your anxiety you are in flight or fight mode with flight being your dominant emotion. When that happens try to take a walk.
Stay off the other websites and commit and stick with DB. Print of Sandis 37 rules and use them as a guide. There is no quick and easy way out of your situation.
Before you have a relationship talk let’s play it out here on the board. I’m your W, what would you say to me?
When I hit my breaking point, I'm thinking along the lines of:
W, I no longer wish to continue pretending to be a family for the kids. Living behind closed doors, sleeping in separate rooms. I don't think its healthy for any of us. I believe it is best for us to split up time at home with the kids and start discussing our go forward plan. I think reconciling through counseling and creating a new and better marriage is the best option but its up to both parties to agree and succeed. You asked for D and I want you to be happy. If thats what you want then please let me know and I'll arrange mediation so we can move forward with our lives.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
