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#2883715 02/03/20 04:02 AM
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Privious thread:
Standing our ground - together as a family


my first thread from the beginning for those just joining.

Wife gone deep into the tunnel?

As you might know my XW is poking her head out of her hole once again. She just had a birthday so i'm sure it stings a little not seeing her girls. Not fun having her blame and point the finger and not look inside but it's part of the process. Also Part of my recovery. Seeing the irational thinking she has only confirms to me she is lost. Not my fault, not my circus and I'm happy to be off the train.

thanks to you all for the support. ANd i hope those quiet readers gain some insight to this horrible thing called midlife.
thanks for the hugs and well wishes.

GERDA: the denial she has for her past actions is incredible but it's so her. If I look back she had that trait long before her running away into crisis. She would always brush things off. Not face anything and act like yesterdays disagreement never happened. Many red flags that I see so clear today.

OWNIT: oh mine to were called many names, not only thieves. Crazy talk from a mother who who never say anything negative to them.

She did write the girls . I'll go into that down below.

KML: yes its unbelievable how it can affect people in diffeerent ways. i know so many now that my eyes are open to this crisis. People who don't see their mom or dad. They would rather avoid the person who caused them so much pain as children.

DNJ: yes I too think she has made progress. She said she can remember some things but not all. What she remembers is screaming at them and driving dangerousely. Slaming on the brakes and my daughters in the back seat flying forward hitting themselves on the back of the front seats. In her mind it was because they made her mad. They questioned her about the hickies on her neck. They provocked her. Again she would have not done that if they had just minded their own business. In the past I would mention this and she would say it never happened or can't remember. Now its coming back to her in pockets. Progress

PEACE : Yes rock bottom I think is needed. SHe did say her BF hit rock bottom when she met him. Saving him from his own MLCr was her priority. He was an LBS. It for sure made her feel better about her own actions.

JOB: you are right on the money. The email was short. no warmth. No real meaning. I'll explain below.

BUTTRFLY: Yes her conversation was painful at first. I did brush it off very quick. Then my thoughts turned to pity for her. She will sadly have to deal with reality if she ever does come face to face with the girls. They won't be as nice as I was.

DEJAVU6: Yes it is all up to them. they are adults now and they will chose what they want to accept or not. They have told me if she bad mouths me in any way they will walk away. If she blames them they will walk. Maybe as they get older they will soften up or maybe as this goes on. They will just accept it that their mom is no more.

So after my conversation with my XW. after hearing her tell me about how she saved her current BF from rock bottom. I think it pushed me to another level. Not of forgiveness. More of thank god I am where I am.

I didn't need anyone to save me. I saved myself from the LBS. It wasn't easy. I had a lot of help and guidence from this site. But I didn't need 1 person to save me.

him however.

He was a LBS. She felt sorry for what he went through. His wife of 18 years leaving him with his kids. Now this was 16 years ago. During those 16 years he became an alcoholic and a pig towards all women. I know this because the town he lived inabout an hour from my house is small and I know many people there. Also my GF friend lived acrossed the street from him. She shared more than what i wanted to hear.

a perfect candidate for her to save and feel good about her own horrible actions.

Now onto the email..

I briefed the girls on the phone call. They both asked how do I do it. How I put up with her poking. How i stay calm. I said simple. I do it for them. If I didnt have kids with my XW. I would not entertain her calls or emails.

so a day later a single email comes in addressed to both girls.

Hi girls.
I think its about time we talk. You should both call me.
I can't explain what I did and why via email.

I think it would be good for both of you if you could tell me what’s on your mind.

I want reconnect with you both and start from fresh .
I’m here and will always be.

Love
Mom


so the girls read this and rolled their eyes. My D17 got mad. Questioning the part of starting fresh. I told her that she can't assume her mom will not discuss the past and want to just move forward with acceptance.
D19 said she's not ready. Deleted the email and said I bet she won't try again for a while.

I guess she wants to see more attempts. I think she is right.

Now I could email XW and tell her to keep trying. Soften up a little and maybe start the conversation with a little explanation. But i won't . I don't think that will help anyone. It needs to come naturally from her. For the girls to accept it as real it has to be real.


I will stand back and support my girls. It's been a few days since the email. They seem fine and haven't talked about this since. Let's see how XW plays this.


have a good week :-) hugs to you all.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
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Irish, I came late to your story so I just read the first post you made. WOW. I always liked reading your posts not only because it's great to get to know a great person/dad is out there but because your posts make it particularly clear that it's not about you. I see many similarities in our spouses. Our MIL's were similar as well -- mine didn't encourage my H at all but she stopped seeing me and the kids and hardened her heart, told me that he was her blood and she didn't want to hear from me anymore, that I had ruined everything by choosing to live in the city!!!! Amazing that anyone would choose their version of righteousness over getting to see their grandkids! And like you, we seemed like such a close family before; but yes, looking back, some flags. However, I think that the flags could have gone either way. Our spouses could have been healed by devoting themselves to the marriage rather than destroying themselves and all the rest of us by destroying the marriage. I do think marriage offers us an amazing opportunity to become our highest selves because of the unconditional love it teaches. But in our cases, we had to cut that journey short when our spouses cut it short.

Anyway I just wanted to support your choice to do nothing. Doing nothing is doing something. It is not only not yours to fix, but I think that fixing it only extends the MLCers lack of responsibility. It would be like apologizing and cleaning up the glass and putting in a new window for your neighbor when your kid is the one who broke it. Except much worse, since it's broken people, not windows.

And also I think that my son is much healthier than my daughter right now precisely because he chose to go no contact. My daughter gets tortured once a week on Wednesday afternoons and then every other weekend for a night-- supposed to be two nights but we always say she has a sleepover so it's only one and H of course is happy enough to surrender his time. My D comes home totally distraught, reeking of vape, conflicted, anxious, takes days to come down off of it. And of course the effect on me of having to hear about the OW and other tasty tidbits is just awful, so then I also struggle to be a loving kind patient present mom when I am hurting.

So I think you should feel free to see the no contact as a very healthy choice for your kids, not as something that you are choosing not to help with. You ARE helping with it, by letting them take all the time they need.

Last edited by Gerda; 02/03/20 06:42 PM.

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Irish,

I'm glad I was wrong and that she contacted them. That is such a dramatic change. For years she has been trying to bully, manipulate and threaten you into easing that transition for her. I imagine this took a tremendous amount of courage on her part. While yes, it is very cold and impersonal, I think it could have been substantially worse given how she tends to communicate with you.

I didn't have a parent leave, so I don't how that feels personally. But I have watched both of my children struggle in different ways. I have to believe that getting occasional glimpses of the crazy has to help the children better comprehend that this is not about them and not about them not being good enough. That she is not living a happy life somewhere having forgotten all about them. Also, I think that she has had such a hard time reaching out to them has to hurt. It is one thing to not feel up to responding to your mother or wanting more effort before you do, and entirely another to not even have her try to contact you.

Thank goodness for you Irish. Thank goodness your daughters have you. And thank goodness that you are still able to respond to her and take her calls after what she has done. Your strength has been the linchpin to enable all of you to continue moving forward; even her. Very, very slowly, but she is moving forward.

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that email seemed a tad less peremptory than usual. minuscule progress is still progress. i predict the next contact will be mother's day.

Yes, detachment is key.

Good job and echoing OwnIt - thank God the girls have you. How are your folks Irish? How goes the new house search?

xoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
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Originally Posted by Gerda
I think that the flags could have gone either way. Our spouses could have been healed by devoting themselves to the marriage rather than destroying themselves and all the rest of us by destroying the marriage. I do think marriage offers us an amazing opportunity to become our highest selves because of the unconditional love it teaches. But in our cases, we had to cut that journey short when our spouses cut it short.


Hi Gerda, I 200% agree with that statement. They could have put all the energy they used detroying lives and put it all into something worth building. Marriage is sacred to me and I am not a guy that just gives up. In this case I had no choice.

Hi Ownit.
Not sure its a sign of courage her reaching out. I am thinking more it's an attempt to temp check and see if I am still cold to her. I am neither cold nor warm. I am indifferent. If she showed any remorse at all I might have become less indifferent to her a little.
Also she is nowhere ready to face the girls. They are teenagers still 17-19. Yes young adults but teens just the same. To be challenged by the girls questions and possible attitude . She would have to be in a better place to handle it. Not in avoindance and blame.


Hi Bttrfly ((hugs))


So to update you all. XW messaged me today.

Asking : Hi Irish , did the girls see my email?

I was honest and said yes they did. Did you get a reply?

No Irish. nothing from them. You sure they read it?

Yes, they read it. Maybe they are not ready to answer just yet.

ok then Irish , I guess I will give up too. I will respect their choices as well and just stop trying.

XW? You misunderstood my reply. Where did I say that they are giving up? You have just started to try and you are are ready to give up all ready. XW, do what you want, unless your attempt was only to make you feel good about yourself. Now you are saying you will give up because the girls are not reacting just yet. If anyone asks you about your girls you can tell them you tried but the girls are not wanting anything from you.

I am sure you will figure it out one day. I pray you will. Until then take care of yourself.


she of course won't reply to that. So i think for a while she will be quiet. After all mothers day is around the corner, that can't be fun for her.


So Bttrfly to answer your questions. My parents are doing well. They are a bit stubborn because in my house hunting |I was thinking of having them move as well. I saw a few houses that have side apatments , intergeneration houses where my parents could move into. They keep telling me it will be too much trouble for me. I say it will give me peace of mind having them close. I am looking to buy about 45mins out. Not a far distance but still far enough. My mom is set in her ways. I need to respect that

so house hunting is still going on. I saw a few. had inspections done to 2 of them and pulled out after the report. The type of home I am looking for is an older home. Lots of wood. On a minimum 1/2 acre lot. I'll find it i know. just need to be patient.

D17 is graduating this summer. So we will soon go dress shopping. I did it with D19 when she graduated. I wouldn't miss it for the world. Also she has rescheduled her driving exam as she didnt feel ready to drive in the snow. Lots of exciting things for her this year. Her anxiety is under control and health is back to normal. So I am crossing my fingers.

D19 is in her last session of jr college then off to university. We are moving to an area that has better access to downtown via a train. Much better commute than the traffic she drives in now.

have good week everyone.
Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
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it is very difficult for older people to leave their routines and friends. The loneliness that I've seen accompany old age is heartbreaking .I know you want them with you but it might be better for them to be in their routines and with people with whom they have strong and longterm relationships. its still early for the spring market, re house hunting .I'm sure you'll find just what you're looking for. glad d17 has her health back and the anxiety under control.. I can't believe d19 will be off to university next year already. wow.. time flies, doesn't it? {{{Irish}}}

Last edited by bttrfly; 02/04/20 03:39 AM.

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Your XW probably feels the rejection from them and due to her past programming from childhood may get stuck for a while until
she tries again..


I think it is difficult for many MLCers to figure it out because they don't get any good advice from the people they speak with or they don't listen to the suggestions of a good therapist if they have one

I like thew way you respond to her and your compassions and patience..really you have tried to make her see the truth here-

and after a bit of reflection...I believe she will come back around


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She's going to come back around very, very soon. She's got to mull over what you said. She still can't or won't accept her part in the breakdown of communication w/her girls. So very sad.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
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Good evening everyone.

Well the saga continues

She did take a few days to get back to the conversation. You were right on that Job.

So this monday. She of course messages me and not the girls.

Irish, so what can i do the help. there is surely something.

I waited for a few hours to answer her. Well XW, financially would be a good start.

The 100$ a month isnt going to far.

100$ ??? what are you talking about. I give way more than that. The government must be scamming us.

XW, the gov't takes it off your pay and deposits it to mine. They deduct it from your salary before taxes. And at the end of the year its a tax deduction for you. The dont scam of the top.

Oh. either way. I have 20$ left to my name at the end of each month.

Are you still smoking? ( she started up when she left. this is after a 15 year no smoking)

Yes.

Well we all have our priorities I guess. So I guess the only think you can do is email the girls. Your last message was that you are giving up

You know i really think you should get me in to talk to D17 psychologist. Me and D17 can both go together. We can all go together.

XW, we had this conversation already. It's not a good thing at this point. D17 needs the individual therapy. I'm sure if she sees that you are really commited to being in her life she will include you. I can't help you.

I was looking at some pictures. we really had some good times.

Yes we did. The girls have good memories. take care XW. I have to go.

Tuesday she was quite. Also her texting is still during work hours. In the first year she said she wont email the girls from the home to not interfere with her life at her new apartment. So I guess this is the same. 8-5pm only.

this morning .. was something else.

Irish, we need to talk more. And over text is not the best way. It's up to you but we should call. Also I don't have internet so I can't message.

XW, I'm confused. What's going on in your head right now? I need to be honest with you. You are trying hard yes, but I havent once heard how are the girls. Or I am sorry for hurting them. Maybe you are not there yet. Maybe you are trying to be nice in hopes that I force the girls to meet up or call you. Try to be honest with me and you will maybe gain some respect and I'll be more open to hearing you out. |Right now I will just repeat. Email the girls. It's between you and them.

Irish. How are the girls?

Well since you ask. D19 is doing good in school. It's her focus. She does have anger still about what you did and it's normal. It's part of her healing. D17 has a harder time. Axiety and therapy still. Her overall health has improved. Her episodes have stopped. As long as she keeps her stress down she is good. They have come a long way and have been through a trauma that I never planned for . I am sure didn't plan for this to be the girls reality.

Irish, you have no idea. I have been through so much. I actually don't see a thearapist at all. I have a help line if needed. I was on sleeping pills for a long time but I am off them now. I try to meditate or just scream outloud. I have pain. I didn't let it take over my soul though.


Sorry about all that . Gald you are coping. A lot of "I" in your reply. Not one comment on the girls. You see what I mean. It seems still to be about you.


I am a good mother . The girls need a mother.

definition of mother is - female who gives birth to offspring. Easy enough if you are blessed to have children.
What you were supposed to be was a parent. You lost that quality. Anyone can be a mother. Not everyone can be a parent. A parent puts their kids first.



So she is waking up in some sort of way. more communication that ever before. We will see where it goes. The gilrs havent mentioned any emails or text from her to them so i figure xw is still hoping I will make a bridge between them.
I am not ready to. I havent seen enpough of real remorse to want to help her.

I also won't reply the same day anymore. I feel my emotional side shines through in my messages to her and I need to be more neutral.


not where I want to be. I am still moving on.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
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Irish - thanks for sharing as it’s a fascinating glimpse at touches of waking up.

I have to say I think your responses to her are neutral and quite measured though I am sure you feel very emotional during and after contact with her; and justifiably so. It was hard to read that she remembers there were good times given the way she burned bridges. The parent definition/comment you made was quite a 2x4 for her I think.

As I always said, you are a tank!


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Good Morning Irish

Wow, what an interesting turn. XW certainly is showing a much longer time and resolve of being out of the tunnel this time. Waking up is a slow and confusing process, just as when they tumbled down after their triggering event. That time is 18-24 months (more or less), I suspect this waking would be a similar timeframe.

I do like the mother/parent statement you made. That will sting her a bit, and she needed to hear it. I also believe she needs some support, and you are a beacon in her awakening mind. Perhaps a little validation of yes we had good times. You were a very good mother. I think you could be again. Nothing leading for you two, just support of her; a hurt person.

Waiting 24 hours before responding is a good strategy. Your messages to her do sound thoughtful and you are remaining neutral, even though I suspect it is rather emotional. Remember just feelings which do flit away. Stay calm and neutral, for you.

Originally Posted by Irish
not where I want to be. I am still moving on.


Irish, do you forgive her?

Forgiveness is absolutely for you.

It’s freeing.

DnJ


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I think it would be weird if you were totally neutral. Your heart is made of flesh and you love your girls with that flesh heart. I mean, are you trying to be a saint or a robot or a just a man who lived through a trial? Either way, I think that's a lot of pressure on you to say you aren't where you want to be.

I think it's amazing that you are even replying. I wouldn't reply at all. That's where I am now. Not because I don't forgive my H but because it is the only way I can set him free and the only way I can take care of myself too. Mine is still pillaging via divorce court so I am very very tired.


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Irish,

She will contact you again, but she needs to mull over what you posted. I know you aren't where you want to be in the scheme of things w/your xw, but she's opening the door for more communication w/you. I find it interesting that she actually wants to speak to you on the phone. I wonder how she would react if you said, no, we will meet and discuss the situation in person. I know you probably won't want to do that, but it just might jar her a bit and make her step back a bit.

Your girls are old enough to determine whether they want to communicate w/their mother or not. I would step back and allow your xw figure out how to mend the fences w/her daughters. It's not your job to fix what she broke. You've had to do all of the hard, necessary work to heal yourself and work on helping your daughters heal.

Now, it's time your xw figure out how to heal herself and reconnect w/her daughters.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
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Originally Posted by Irish M


definition of mother is - female who gives birth to offspring. Easy enough if you are blessed to have children.
What you were supposed to be was a parent. You lost that quality. Anyone can be a mother. Not everyone can be a parent. A parent puts their kids first.



ouch. truth dart but ouch.

Originally Posted by Irish M

So she is waking up in some sort of way. more communication that ever before. We will see where it goes. The gilrs havent mentioned any emails or text from her to them so i figure xw is still hoping I will make a bridge between them.
I am not ready to. I havent seen enpough of real remorse to want to help her.

I also won't reply the same day anymore. I feel my emotional side shines through in my messages to her and I need to be more neutral.


not where I want to be. I am still moving on.




{{{{{{{Irish}}}}}}}

She's trying to co-parent with you. It's really triangulation at this point, but in her MLC mind, it's co-parenting.Yeah, I know. She's still very much in her MLC, but she's waking up, little by slow.

The relationship between the girls and their mother is theirs to figure out. You know this. You are good at being there for the girls and good at stepping back to let them find their own way.

You absolutely need to put some time between responses. I know you don't want to add more hurt to someone who is already in a good deal of pain. You're a kind and compassionate person, Irish. I'm glad you're stepping back before responding. These triggers she's setting off in you are for your healing, my friend. Think about it. xoxoxo


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

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Just saying hi to Everyone. Hope you are all in good health and washing your hands a lot more. Life as it was is different. Many restrictions and closures.

We had an open house and lost a few that were interested. They all are holding off because of the virus.
They want to wait to see how their jobs and economy hold up.

For myself . I'm not too worried. Things will come back to the norm. I did however lock my parents up since last week and i'm making sure they don't leave their house.

As for XW. I did get a message about her being ok. Hi Irish just to let you know I'm fine. It was weird because I did wonder about her situation a day or so before that. I didn't reply because sadly she couldn't add the expected.. "how are the girls?"

The girls are under quarantine as some classmates returned from a trip to Italy on Friday. So now the girls live in a seperate part of the house. They have their own bathroom and seperate living area. The only room we share is the kitchen. I prepare the food and leave it on the table. We don't eat at the table at all. Myself i eat in my office. They don't cook or do dishes. So a win for them. lol . yes i wear gloves.

Well it was in the local news so it should have got to XW. Guess no concern to her.

wishing you all a great St Patricks day tomorrow. I know i'll avoid the pubs. Well they are all closed. So I will raise a pint to you all.

Slainte
Irish

May good luck be with you Wherever you go, and your blessings outnumber the shamrocks that grow.
May your days be many and your troubles be few,
May all God's blessings descend upon you,
May peace be within you,
May your heart be strong,
May you find what you're seeking wherever you roam


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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Good Morning Irish

Happy St.Patrick’s Day!

Glad to read how levelheaded you still are. Even with locking your parent in their house. smile Lol. I’m sure you are bring them supplies if they need them.

Too bad about the waning interest in the house. I agree that people will be a bit skittish about the economy and their income streams to make any current large purchases. Things will return to normal in time.

Sounds like the daughter’s quarantine isn’t too big a hardship for them. Haha. No cooking, no dishes. It’s a couple of weeks and you guys are riding it out in style. Well done!

The XW’s text is her typical view. She let you know she is alright and no query of you or the girls. It’s her normal right now. I do hope she moves towards more empathy, of course she is still on her time.

Do avoid the pubs, lol, and have a great day.

DnJ


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good to hear from you Irish. Glad you are taking all precautions and glad the girls are currently well - let us hope that continues.

Happy St. P's to you as well!
xo


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Happy St. Patrick's Day to all!

You are doing all the proper things to get through the next few weeks. Your daughters will be just fine and are probably enjoying not having to do the dishes, etc.

I also think you did the right thing by "locking your parents up". It's better to have them safely in their own home and having others bring them supplies if they need them.

Please stay safe and healthy!


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Yeah, about locking the parents up - look for the cute PSA video Max and Mel Brooks made.

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Hi Everyone. Hope you are all safe and practicing social distancing. I fear in Canada and the USA, we will hit a very large amount of cases and a high death rate. Too many people moving around still and not keeping a distance. Canada is a week behind the US. People are still not taking this as serious as it is. My business is hazmat and infection control. This is a bad one.

My girls are respecting the rules of no going out and no visitors. My girlfriend and her son will not come back to my house until they stay in for 14 days. If all goes as planned she and her son can come over saturday to stay . If she needs to go back to work then she goes back home. I know it's not easy but it's a must.

On a MLC side. My XW is writing me daily since the 23rd of March. tells me she's worried for the girls then in the same sentence says she trusts me to protect them and they are in good hands. She even wrote to them , telling them she loves them and she is missing them. She wished she was home with us all.

The girls told me that last one. With us all. Now i know in times of fear some people reflect on their life and choices the have made. I feel this is all that is.

My D19 whos studying psychology said her mother is for sure hurting . She see's that family is the most important thing and she doesn't have it anymore. Poor her she said. They chose not to answer.

me however. I did answer her concerns. I reassured her that they are safe and staying in. That if she needs to talk I am here to listen.

that is all I can do. If this is the push to get her to do more attempts to connect to the girls than so be it. A blessing out of a scary time.

Today is the first day she didn't write. I won't reach out first. No point . This is her time not mine.

stay safe everyone. Protect your famillies. things will settle down in a 6-8 weeks and we will celebrate with the world.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
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Stay strong buddy. These are trying times...

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Please stay safe and healthy. I'm glad to see someone is taking this situation seriously. There are some people in the lower 50 aren't taking this seriously and it is only going to make things worse and prolong the process of the virus dying off.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Keep shining there Irish. The lighthouse at the safe harbour. Glad to see what you are.

Stay strong and taking good care of your Ds, as usual.


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Wishing to health and safety. Blessings


W (me): 50 H: 46
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Originally Posted by Irish M


Today is the first day she didn't write. I won't reach out first. No point . This is her time not mine.

stay safe everyone. Protect your famillies. things will settle down in a 6-8 weeks and we will celebrate with the world.


I'm worried about her.. I hope she is well and safe..
Thank you for the update - just seeing this now. I know this must be a very busy time for you with work. Wishing you continued good health and wellbeing, as always xo


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Happy Mother’s day to all the amazing moms here who put your kids first and made sure they are all safe.

An amazing bunch of strong women here.

:-)

Irish


M51
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And to all the dads who have had to become moms too!

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thx Irish. Happy mother's day to the guy who stepped up big time to do double duty. really proud of you and your girls. hope all is well. i'm sure you're swamped at work right now given current events. stay safe !
xo


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thanks Kml and Bttrfly, I usually say happy mothers day to a few dads who I know personnal who pull double duty. I don't want to take anything away from the moms. Besides fathers day is around the corner. Maybe there should merge the two and call it parents day.. or a parents week :-)

Just a quick update. I sold my house this week. The real estate market had shut down for a few weeks since this covid started. It only opened up last week. Had 3 visits and 3 offers. So i am very happy for the sell price. Move out date is june 24.

The challenge is, the house i intended to buy and move into. it's no longer available. The home owners lost their jobs and the purchase of their new home got derailled.

So this week i am visiting a few more houses , hopfully we find our dream home. I am in no panic even though the days are flying by. My cousin has an airBnB she can't rent so I can use that temporally. Pretty good deal. Inground pool and lake front.

As for the girls. Keeping teeenage girls sane and inside isn't easy. As i'm sure you are all experiencing tough times.

for the MLC XW. well she wrote me a few times. Talking about good times, mistakes she's made and regret. She oppened up on her poor choice of boyfriends. I listened and didn't add anything to stick her with the "I told you so" or "AH HA... i'm not the crazy one after all."

It was emails, texts and even a phone calls. She seemed as if a few more lights came on.

Sadly it didn't last and I am so happy i didn't feed into it and I didn't fall for it. Maybe just before our last email exchange something happened in her life that made her slip back into the whole.

Last weekend I get a message. Telling me I am no good, ruined her life. ruining the girls lives and that they need her.
I reminded her " Yes, they did need you. In the past when we seperated , the girls deffinitely needed a mom for love and support during the hardest time of their lives. You chose not too."


Irish, that's not what I said. They need me know. It's mothers day, don't you think the girls need a mother.


I guess another mothers day explaining to people in her entourage why she dosnt see her girls is hard.

XW, you can ask them what they need. You might not get an answer but if you do nothing then expect nothing

Irish, when we split up, you should of forced them to see me.


XW, maybe you don't remember. When you split us up, your life plan was no kids and no responsibilities. You gave them up like an old pair of shoes. You ran and they had no place in your life. Now we can't go back in the past, what's done is done. But, what you do with the next few days, weeks, months and years is all on you. I can't help you. If ever you remember and want to discuss it with me or them you have everyones emails. If you want to still lie and twist the facts , then I don't have time.

with that it went quiet.

On the job front. Its been 80 hour weeks. Business is great, I have a job still and to buy a new house I am not stressed out. I do wish the Covid was gone and life returned to normal. I miss social interaction.

Hope you are all practicing social distancing and protecting your families and your self.

take care

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
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Seems she is continuing to pin ball from lucid moments to the blame game. Five years without seeing her kids must be quite an extraordinary thing to face.

It is interesting how she seems stuck in a time warp. She says they need a mother and yet she can’t act on it. Instead she just keeps looking to the lost time which can, as you say, can never be replaced.

And if she is recognizing her past boyfriends were bad choices and that’s where she opted to double down at the full expense of her girls, well, ouch.

Roll on you tank.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
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Often sad to see them waking up. Must be painful to wake up and see the wreckage they caused.

I’m actually grateful my ex doesn’t seem like he’ll ever reach that point. Last thing I’d want from him now is for him to show up with regrets. I just want him to become a better father, but his narcissism is unlikely to change.

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I have no words on eew. She made her bed and I pity her.

I like your positive attitude and think the move will be good for all. Try to get as much rest as you can given your current workload. Good luck - I know the right home will appear at just the right time. xoxo happy birthday a tad early!!

Last edited by bttrfly; 05/15/20 11:22 AM.

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HI everyone

hope you are all fine. Time flies when you are busy and the last few months it's been nuts.
Sold my house and moved to the other side of the city. So from southshore to west island.

Girls are so happy, nature and horses is the theme here. A huge change from the town we were in last.

We have an addition to the household. My girlfriend and her son. They are living with us and so far its good. Some minor adjustments but eveyone is happy.

XW did message me not long ago. Congratulating me on the new house. I'm still trying to see who shared the info with her but does it really matter. She also moved again. Still with the town drunk. Says my new house is a mansion and she is stuck living in a run down dump. They have no money as he doesn't work . Their house needs insulation before winter or they will freeze to death.

boo hoo hoo .. She still needs to make me pity her. Sorry but I can't. I used to feel sorry for her but that died a while back

She says shes stuck in a low paying job. I told her she is capable of so much more. That her potential is there just she is settling. Then it started.

Irish, NO ONE needs to tell me what I am capable of or not. I know what i can do and I actually enjoy it here.

sorry, that is not what I meant.

And my boyfriend is a hard worker. We are just fine the way it is. I don't need anything else.

ok. anyway we all make choices we need to accept. Take care.

about 20 mins past then i get this.

Irish, we should of did things different. Like therapy. we didn't try hard enough. The time we went and you said no more. we should of found another one.

XW, even if we found the best one. You were set on leaving. I was sitting there and you wanted the therapist to convince me it was over. I told him privately that it takes 2 to work at a marriage and you were there to get out.

Still, we should of tried another one. take care Irish

that was 2 weeks ago. i didn't reply and she didn't write back.

now need to plan a backyard cabana before winter.


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
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moved out Aug 2 2015
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Wow that’s painful to hear. Sounds like on some level in her addled mind she’s realizing how badly she blew it and how much she’s lost (although she also might just be trying to milk you for some money, who knows?) . I am actually grateful that my ex has never looked back, because I would never want him back and it would just be awkward.

I often think of your ex and DNJ’s in a slightly different category - drugs and/or some serious mental illness, beyond ordinary MLC. My ex had his concussions but also I see clearly now, he had narcissistic issues from the start.

I’m glad you’re doing well with your girls and the girlfriend and son. Life does go on after our exes fire us from the job of caring for them. You’ve done a fantastic job under difficult circumstances. Congrats on the new house.

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Good Morning Irish

Congratulations on the new house. Nature and horses sounds great. Your girls must be in seventh heaven.

Glad to hear GF and son have moved in. Congratulations on that as well.

XW sounds like she did, and has, for the past years. So very little progress for her.

These crisis people do tend to keep tabs on their old lives and their discarded partner. Not too surprising she knew where you moved. And yes, she still needs to play the victim; and apparently still blame you. SMH. Her choices, her consequences.

A backyard cabana sounds great. How many acres is your yard?

It’s so nice to hear from you. Have a wonderful day Irish.

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It almost like whatever you would say to her...she would not agree, and come back with some form of a fight

still in a teen mindset-

She seems somewhat regretful, but she still does not take any responsibility for the D or the outcome
and has to defend her life as a good and right one

I think internally they do realize they blew it- she gave up everything really for nothing
Probably never admit it


I would guess many will have to remain clouded by drugs, alcohol, relationships or whatever their addiction is
for some time or the remainder of their lives
very sad indeed

Glad you are doing great and this seems like a typical MLC story

The LBS builds a great new life...The Mlcer continues to gets worse.... until/unless they seek serious help


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Irish,

I am so happy that you returned and provided an update. Congratulations on selling your home and moving into a new one. New memories to be made and they will be happy ones. Glad everyone has settled in and the adjustment period is going along nicely.

As for your xw, she has realized for quite some time that she messed up and appears to be a bit jealous of what you have accomplished since she left. I think she was look for pity and maybe an offer of funding to help w/the place that they are living in. She is still out there in space. It's okay for her to admit she's not doing as well as she should be, but she sure doesn't want you to say anything to her about it.

I agree, it wouldn't have mattered which IC you went to, she was going to leave.

Continue moving forward and live your life to the fullest.


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First, and focusing on the important things:
Congrats on the new home
Congrats on things moving forward in your present relationship in a positive way for all concerned.

Everything else is BS

Re: eew... nothing has changed there. Nice to know some things in life are dependable, like the sun rising in the east, death, taxes, and her being stuck and blaming you.

Now, on to the rest of your life mon ami !!!

xoxo

P.S. Hope mom and dad are well!


Last edited by bttrfly; 09/09/20 06:24 PM.

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Irish,

Kudos to you on the success of rebuilding a beautiful life for you and your girls. You all deserve much peace and happiness.

You were such a tank through it all.


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Hi Everyone

Originally Posted by kml

I often think of your ex and DNJ’s in a slightly different category - drugs and/or some serious mental illness, beyond ordinary MLC. My ex had his concussions but also I see clearly now, he had narcissistic issues from the start.


I agree they are extreme. I see it as a higher level of MLC. Not sure if I could of handled it if she was more involved with the kids. Not seeing her destroy her life is a godsend for the girls.


Originally Posted by DnJ

XW sounds like she did, and has, for the past years. So very little progress for her.D


I think she has progressed . More and more regret in her messages. Seems to be every few weeks and not only a yearly event.

Originally Posted by job

I think she was look for pity and maybe an offer of funding to help w/the place that they are living in. She is still out there in space. It's okay for her to admit she's not doing as well as she should be, but she sure doesn't want you to say anything to her about it.


you are dead on. Was a cry for pity. She is still the victim, as you will read in my update below. Scary times for her.

Originally Posted by bttrfly


Now, on to the rest of your life mon ami !!!
xoxo
P.S. Hope mom and dad are well!


my mom and dad are doing good, they made it through the first phase of covid, we are starting the 2nd wave and they are playing it safe. My mom has a heart condition and 79 so we have her in a bubble. Was sad not seeing them for thanksgiving. My turkey was not as good as hers.[/quote]

Originally Posted by HaWho

You were such a tank through it all.


Tank with fatigued armour and wear and tear. But still rollling.

so to update my situation. Thanks giving weekend just past. Mostly all households are in isolation as the covid virus is taken off. Was it the opening of schools with no masks or just a result of a summer that was full of backyard parties.

XW did reach out. At some point in the conversation I felt like she needed to just empty some old held in feelings.
the text messages started with her wishing me a good thanksgiving. I replied thanks .

I presume she was expecting more than just a thanks but that was all that i could give.

Irish, i really mean it. You deserve a great thanksgiving with the girls.


Hi XW, thanks i really mean that too. have great weekend and happy thanksgiving.

Irish, i miss the girls. Working from home now because of covid I at least don't have to pretend. I put on the happy face at work. I don't sleep and some days don't eat.
I never thought I'd be in this position. You probably don't care so i won't take up your time.


XW, I can only imagine what is going on with you. I do understand the happy face mask. we all use it sometimes

a few hours past and I tought that was it. Just before supper i get the long one.

Irish, I use it all the time. But I am tired of hiding. No one knows how i feel. I have lost all trust in people and I won't show them how I really am feeling. I am a pro at hiding it but it is just so painful. I need to keep myself busy to keep my mind from spinning. I hid it from you in the end because i was tired of asking to talk. I felt i couldnt share my feelings with you. And i never felt like i was part of the family. The girls are Irish. I felt like you all were against me.
My friends I lost took your side and weren't listening to what I was saying. They twisted it to please you.
Besides you never accepted me . I wish we got better help to talk maybe then you would know me better and accept me. I had so much pain and it was going to push me to end my life if I stuck around. I had to leave . I needed to feel. I felt nothing with you 3. I know now that i can't expect anyone to love me. I need to love myself, that is all that matters. I'll stop now. I feel such negative energy here now. I need to ground myself. Have a happy thanksgiving Irish.


I don't know what to reply on that. I can say that I am sorry for your pain. Believe me when i say this , you meant a lot to us 3. We were a strong 4. It's true we didn't talk much in the last year because you avoided it all. I would raise a concern and you would down play it. You'd say goodnight and the next day wake up like nothing is wrong. Well it hit us hard. We would argue and I'd push to talk and get the wall you put up. There was nothing I could do to help you. I do hope you are talking to someone. Someone that can guide you better than I did. If you need to ask me anyting that can help you, let me know. take care .

Not sure how she can say we didnt talk and it was I who avoided. I'd sit at the foot of the bed asking to talk and I'd get the no reply, need to be up early reply. I look back and she avoided discussions all our life together. Wasn't one to face anything.

With that the weekend ended and no more communication. She is clearly in a dark place. Depression is a horrible thing. The wearing of their masks is a reminder to us all. We might think and see our MLCr happy but deep down they can't look at themselves in the mirror, they can't face what they have done and they are very unhappy.

Not what I expected from a thanksgiving weekend. The girls are not aware of this exchange. Not sure I will share it. They are adults now, 18 and 20. I figure they will have their own discussions with their mom. Hopefully XW doesn't do something stupid. She clearly needs better help. Something I can't do. All I can do is listen.


stay safe everyone.

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
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I found this very touching and heart breaking, Irish. She still can't see the truth but she sees glimmers. As a woman, I can definitely feel how much she is longing for you in those lines you included. Sorry if that's is not how we are supposed to think as LBS's, but as a woman reading that, I must say it was palpable to me that she is longing for you in a visceral way -- I don't mean sexually (I mean, I don't know about that in her case of course), but I mean in a soul-way, and that some part of her knows your Goodness and wants to connect with that, even if most of her is still nutty and mean or all the other things she is. My H also often said he didn't fit in but saw it as me controlling everything. It was so ridiculous because all we wanted was him to be our man/dad. I am seven years in and mine still hates me, can't imagine him ever saying those things yours is saying. I think it's strong of you not to tell your girls, I would be tempted but I think you're right not to.


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Hi Irish,

I feel bad for your W. She's in a sad place. But from that place she does seem to be progressing on her path and may just be on a path to recovery. Obviously she isn't there yet and it surely isn't your concern at this stage. She has shown glimpses in the past but I think she is in a better place.

Maybe her anger will reappear. She'll get through that too.

To me her first part is like a teenager trying to figure out if someone likes them too, without having to ask directly. I read "you probably don't care" as being "do you care?"

She regrets not being closer to you and the girls. She regrets ye not having done enough to save your M. She probably doesn't fully see her part in the breakdown but she does appear to see some of it. The rest is clouded by her perception of things based on where she was at at the time. Your side too is probably clouded by assumptions and preconceptions you had at the time. That's ok, normal and at this stage not overly important.

There's no point in crying over spilt milk or bolting the barn door after the horse has fled. The past is done and cannot be undone. It can be understood better. It cannot be changed but our perception of it can.but after this many years that truly isn't worth focusing on. Your W is still focusing on it because it's all she sees. She is lost and can't see the next real step.

But she does appear to be looking. Looking inwards. She seems to have a good insight on herself and what she's been through. She cannot see too far beyond herself yet but that breakthrough could be coming. She needs to drop the "woe is me" mentality and she just might get there. You can show her signposts if inclined but this path is her responsibility. You know that.

But maybe you could stop defending your part of the breakdown. You've been clear, honest and consistent in letting her know your truth about what the end of your M was like. She's heard it all before and knows it. Please resist continuing to do so. Now don't accept her half truths or lies just let it go. Each time she makes contact the ball gets thrown back into her court. The ball belongs there but she probably sees your defense as an attack and focuses on that instead of herself and what she should do. By not responding defensively the ball still finds it's way back to her court.

Again my words are just a friendly outsiders viewpoint and as always not a critic.

Best wishes Irish


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sad

but your message back to her was very warm and heartfelt and kind
I hear your forgiveness and acceptance

hopefully that may help her find her way


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you can do one other thing mon ami - you can pray for her, and i'm sure you do. xo happy thanksgiving.


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Hi everyone

Gerda, it is heart breaking. From day one that she stopped seeing the girls my heart broke. I know i can't make everyone happy but to fill the hole she made. Impossible. Time does heal but in MLC the pain just fades.

I have had more texts from her these past few days. The most vivid she has been in a long while. As for not telling the kids, i held back until they approached me and asked what’s going on with mom.

They revoiced similar messages from her. Detailing more of the past events and her justification of it. They too are direct with her and defend their integrity and their side of the story. XW tries but gets shut down fast.

Roist, I agree, she is in a bad place. I truly fear for her not being able to deal with the damage she has caused.

I also agree the past can not be undone. That’s where i hope the tools I have given these past 5 years help connect them in a healthy way and one of forgiveness.

Hi peace and bttrfly . thanks for your prayers. I think we all need it from time to time. The positive energy we share here is so good and heart felt.

So, XW has continued to message me. I was going to tell her to stop trashing our relationship. Her opinion isn't my own.

instead I didn't have to. She never went back to that in her next texts. It's like her too is tired and drained of trying to convince me.

Early morning ext. 3am. I see it when i get up to get ready for work

Irish, I keep waking up thinking of the girls. Thinking of what I had. That I ruined so much.
I don't think I was myself. Depressive, feeling lost, not loved, not wanted.. I told you I needed to find myself and I left. I thought I could have done it with the girls in my life but they chose to not be with me. My Bf at the time had nothing to do with it. They shouldn't of denied me as their mother because I had a BF, and if they would have talked to me maybe my relationship with him would have been over sooner. I would have realized they needed me. I couldn't be alone, i needed to feel something. I know now that’s not the way it's supposed to be but at that time it's how I felt. I was scared and alone. Today i feel I am a different person. I know I can be alone and I’m good with that.
I have a lot of pictures and I look at them all the time. I wish I can create new memories with them.


Now I could have pointed out that she went manic, abandoned them and her Bf was a drug dealer but I held back, There is no point to that now.

I do remember you saying you needed to find yourself. Remember I offered to hep set up your apartment. I understood you needed time. This isn't the first time we went through this. 15 years ago you did the same.

I truly believe one day you will connect. I am in your corner. Even with all the bad i kept you in the loop with their health and updates. Yes, the last 2 years I stopped, only because I never got the " How are the girls message from you. not once.


Life certainly doesn't taste the same... I don’t know if it's the same for you but me \I don’t enjoy it as much as before... and |I try hard but I'm kind of disconnected. All the small things now it's like ok whatever get over it... I'd say everything is boring... my therapist told me that I put my feelings on hold. She said it's not good but I don't care.

I don't know if you understand me... old pictures... past presents... years I missed. heavy heart and regrets.

Hope you have a good day; you are lucky to have them in your life. Cherise those moments.

I do understand and I am happy you are talking to someone. Have a good day too

thanks Irish, you were always a good listener. I just need to learn to talk.


Clearly her mind is spinning with the old memories. Is this a temporary thing like I’ve seen in the past with her? Or is this the start of a wake up.
Time will tell. I’m in no rush.

The girls had received messages, at first, she was attacking them. How could they and so on. But she changed her toon when she got direct replies putting her in her place. Her last message to them was heart felt and warm. It was actually asking about them and her missing them. Misses the closeness she had with them pre-MLC.

They seemed a little more curious but didn’t ask about her life or how she was. They, XW and the girls have a long road in front of them. I’ll support both teams the best I can. I’m here to listen and nudge where I can as long as it’s a healthy reunion. I’ll be happy.


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BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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maybe she will find her way. I hope so, for her sake, and the girls' as well. xo


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D 12/23/16

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HI Bttrfly, I hope so for the girls sake.

my youngest D18 , crazy she is 18. she was 12 going on 13 when all this happened. She brought up XW last night on our drive home from her job.

She said: dad, I had a facebook notification for suggested friend. Not a request but just facebook suggesting a friend based on my current friends. It was moms name and her picture. Not the same one the uses now.

I said no clue, maybe she is cleaning up her old one. She has changed it 2 times already when she does a new start.

She then said, you know it's weird. I never blocked her on facebook . I know my sister did. But i never did. She unfriended but didn't block me. She can still see my public posts and I can see hers. Now she has a new facebook page.
She's up to something.

I told D18 not to read too much into it.

D18 then said something that I know stirred up some hurt. Mom could have messaged me at anytime via facebook. Why hasn't she if she says she misses us as much as she says she does.

I replied that their mom is in a bad place still. Positive note, she seems to expres herself more with less blame. If she is honest she might make that move to contact you more. You can always reach out to her if you want. That door works both ways

She replied like any teenager would ... no she has to make a real effort. I don't want to go up and down with her of be disappointed.


so i turned up the music and did a little car singing to change the mood.

I'm happy that D18 is open. not much anger just wants a true effort. Can't blame her .

have a great week. and get those xmas decorations up . we all need some cheer.
Stay safe

Irish


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BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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You know, FB suggests people as friends if they are peeping at your FB page. Perhaps ExW was using her old FB page to look at D's FB page for some reason?

It's good that she's speaking to you. It's possible your ex is too messed up to have realized that D18 hadn't blocked her. Or simply, more likely, still too scared to actually contact them and have to deal directly with the consequences on her behavior.

Either way, you're a good dad.

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Interesting how she spins. Out of one side of her mouth she said no one ever listened to her and out the other she says you were always a good listener. She even says she never really tried to talk about it all. So much flip flopping. She must be dizzy by all that yo-yoing her mind does.

Thank you for sharing any peek outs she has. It is helpful to us all.

As for a fatigued tank, remember, they can take a shot from a cannon and weather on! : )


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
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Happy New year everyone. Hope you are all doing well and are safe and healthy.

So a very quiet MLCr these past few weeks . Last contact from her was mid October. I guess her opening up as much as she did was a little hard on herself. She retreated into her dark hole. Her birthday is coming up, that is always a mess as her entitled self is very present.

Christmas and New years as weird and isolated as it was went by pretty ok. We've been in our new home since July and is all but done in renos. We have settled in very nicely. Also finally got my game/movie room set up, with projector, screen,. air hockey, darts and a modded Arcade stand up game with multiple old school games running on it.

one thing that surprised me was a message that popped up in my facebook messenger. I didnt see it at first and only noticed it when the person unsent the message. It leaves that trace. So I didn't get to read the message before they pulled it back.

Who might have sent it you ask.. we'll good old ex mother in law. Not sure what she wanted to share with me but the last time I spoke to her was when I asked her for help because her daughter was acting up and neglecting the girls. I was told to let her go only to never hear from the woman again.

All this time she never even asked to see the girls who she told off on their last call to her 5 years ago. They called her in a panic after their mom recklessly drove and braked hard a few times shaking them about in the back seat of the car with no seatbelts. My oldest face smashed against the back of XW seat all the while XW was yelling at them and punching the stearing wheel.

I won't inquire. It was probably a late night thought, she messaged something then next morning saw that i didn't read it and deleted it.

hope you all are doing well. I do read the situations from time to time. Hoping we all find that peace we so ache to have.

Irish


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
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Happy New Year Irish, to you and yours. Good to "see" you - I just happened by because I was going to post an update on my sitch and was happy to see your name.

I hope your parents are well, and your game room sounds like a lot of fun! put a guinness tap on the bar and you'll never have to leave the house, lol!


M 20+ T25+
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BD 4/6/15
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Hello Irish

Wonderful to hear from you.

The entertainment room sounds great. Look at that, we both got stand up arcade machines. smile Oh, those are so much fun.

Awesome life Irish. Looks good on you!

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Hi everyone, hoping you are all safe and healthy. Working with Health Canada, hospitals and infection control units my days go buy so very fast.

a small update. After the no message from Mother-in-law. Her message to me via FB that she recalled and deleted before I could read. Well, their must be a lot of chatter at the MLC side of that family.

I get a call from dear old sister-in-law. I first was nervous to answer. Thought something horrible might have happened to XW.

Hi Irish. I've been wanting to ask you something for a while. I finally got the courage to do it so here it goes.
Aren't you tired of having hate and anger tie you down? The weight you carry on your shoulders must be draining.
Why can't you forget what happened? I know it was awful and I was not one to agree what my sister did but time has past and we should all just move forward. My sister should see her kids.


Hi Xsister in law. I'm doing well thank you. They never ask how we are. This anger you speak of, who said I'm angry.
I'm well past that long ago. I might be disappointed in your sister but not angry.
I have no weight holding me down. I moved on and still making sure the girls are supported.
If their mom wants to talk to them all she has to do is call, write . message. She has many ways to do so. If she choses not to that is on her.


Well maybe they should call her. She would want that.

Sorry can't help. God knows I tried over the years but I have given up. They are after all adults know.
Have you tried to reach out to them? You are godmother to D20.


I tried 2 years ago and no answer.

Oh, 2 years ago. Tried once. I guess once in 5.5 years , the girls decided why bother.
Your mom hasn’t tried once. and finally messaged me but deleted it. You can tell her that she can reach out to me at any time
e.

Irish, I think you should do the right thing.

I have been doing the right thing. Giving 200% of myself to them . Making happy memories. Your family have failed them. Don't put that on me. I get enough of that from your sister.
take care. I wish you and your family a healthy year . stay safe. good bye .

They have nerve I tell you.

Next day. XW messages me. Irish. stop trashing my family. You should be an adult and help. This is not right and you talking crap to my sister. It's not right.

Crap ? I spoke the truth . Sorry if it hurts. Giving me hell because I don't force the girls. You know very well you need to make an effort. I won't try to guide or help you, that door is closed. Your sister messaged them once. your mother zero times and you maybe 20 times in the past 5 years and more than half of those was to give them hell. Not one of you ever asked how the girls are. I've updatted you in the past and stopped when you asked me.

I did nothing wrong. As for connecting to the girls. You'll figure it out one day.


Oh Irish , you are pathetic. You should be an adult and tell them what is right.


Sorry XW, the girls will when they are ready. You however have the chance to message them or call them . You chose not to. When you are ready make a true effort. If they hang up well try again. Be honest with them, listen to them, if they give you crap well take it. They will need to vent their anger. Once that clears you can tell them how you feel. Without these steps you will get nowhere. I've raised the girls to talk about their feelings, not hold them in and ignore them .

Well, if its to trash me and call me names I won’t call or email them

your choice XW , not mine. So, take my advice as this is the last time, I’ll tell you. This is what needs to happen .
take care



so that happened last week. Hope she figures it out. She was not the same person I was messaging in October.

keeping you all up to date. Hope you can get what you can from it. Not an easy road for anyone.

Irish


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BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
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WOW, Irish. That is astonishing. It's like you lifted it all out of a really well-written novel about a crazy family. (Hers, not yours).

And it is so true. I knew my MIL for 20 years. She even told me at the start of MLC that if H was cheating, well, his father had always said he was rotten to the core, and then I'd know he wasn't worth waiting for.

Six years later, she won't speak to me and hasn't seen or really talked to my son, her favorite person in the world who she really helped raise the first few years.

This dialogue is an amazing portrait of how people who don't have ears to hear can't hear. Everything you say is so clear, so simple, so obviously true. Yet each response is more absurdly unhearing than the next, from both the sister and XW. If I wasn't a survivor of the same thing, I would think you must be leaving something out!

I'm not sure they'll ever see the truth or see even a fraction of what a great man and father you are.

Learning to accept that I couldn't justify myself and shouldn't try was a big hurdle for me. I think it helped me in other parts of my life though, as realizing it made me realize that I have always been tortured by the need to be understood, to explain myself, to be the good one. With these people, even when you are, you aren't. So it's humbling. And I guess humbling is good.


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{{{{{{{Irish and the girls}}}}}}}

Geez, the lot of them! WTH?

Someone is sure stuck but it isn't you, mon ami.

Hey - guess what? Exh called me two weeks ago to tell me that he got married last month and I hadn't had any health insurance for two weeks. He was just getting around to telling me. Kind of him, eh? in a pandemic no less. I know it wasn't an elopement so guess that advance notice was too much for him, what with his busy schedule and all.

So much other stuff I wish to share, but I've pulled my threads here.

Five years out - soon to be six - and they still don't understand the basic concept of personal responsibility. Glad neither of us held our breaths waiting for sanity to emerge.

Sorry you had to deal with the trifecta from H-E-double hockey sticks. xoxoxo


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Wow. Feeling really grateful for my XMIL right now. Sorry you have to deal with that. What a bunch of jerks. Gerda’s right. People who don’t have ears can’t hear. The good news is that your kids know that you are a great man and that’s all that matters. Good for you for holding your ground. (((HUGS)))

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Irish,

I am so sorry to read about the communications. Your xw has rewritten history and, of course, blood is thicker than water, when it comes to what her family will believe.

As for your girls reaching out to their mother, it is up to them. They are grown and they can make their own decisions and it's good that you have pointed this out. Your xw is a grown woman who is stuck and is afraid of what the girls would say to her. She needs to put her big girl panties on and reach out to them one more time. Unfortunately, the girls may never reach out to her.

You can do what you want, but I wouldn't have any more conversations w/any of that side of the family unless their conversations sound like they are rational and ready to hear the truth.

God bless you for having the patience to deal w/them.


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Hi Irish! Glad you took the time to stop by.

A couple of things that struck me that are perhaps common albeit a bit more extreme in your case.

The first is that doing the "work" of reaching out isn't something that your ex is willing to do. She needs you to do the adulting for her. Well - she fired you from that job a long time ago. The anger towards you and the girls for you not doing all the work to keep the relationship going is something that I saw myself even long before "bomb-day". My son is not good at all on reaching out - just part of his personality. I recall his mother cursing and swearing at him for not responding immediately to texts and for not reaching out in between.

Your ex has tried to force you to force the girls and now she's getting an army of relatives to brow-beat you for not doing her work for her.

The second is the refusal to accept the consequences of their actions. Again - everyone else should do the work and they do none. I saw this - again for years and years and just accepted it and picked up the slack. Any time there was work to be done to make things better from a mistake, my ex would just walk away.

Makes me wonder if this is a common personality trait among those who go off dancing with the fairies in a "MLC". It certainly seems to be.

Stay safe.


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Good Morning Irish

Yes, the nerve of some people. XW is enlisting her family to help her fight her imaginary battles with you and the girls. She’s still running and not facing her consequences, her pain, her past. Depressed and desperate these lost souls are, and unable to hear the compassionate advice over their blame-filled projections and justifications.

You are a good man Irish. You have done wonderfully raising your girls and leading your life.

Unfortunately, hurt people, hurt people. Rare are those who aspire to follow a great example. Common is the practice of attempting to tear that example down. XW and her entourage fall into the latter category - for the moment.

Keep doing your thing. It is very much good for you. And as begrudgingly as XW would be to admit this, she notices. She see the relationship you have with your girls. Perhaps, someday, she will grow enough to see how to work towards bettering her own relationship with them.

The lighthouse. A stanchion of strengthen and stability, a beacon for those would choose to look and follow. Just shines and keeps doing its thing.

Much respect my friend.

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Irish, Im a newbie here but not a newbie in life. I disagree with every response you have received so far. Here is how I would have handled it:

You were worried XV was horribly injured so you answered.

[Ex SIL: Hi Irish. I've been wanting to ask you something for a while[/i]...[/i][/i]

Irish: Interupting-OMG, is XW OK, is she injured or dying?

ExSIL:Well, no but...

Irish: OK, call me if XW is injured or being. Thanks for calling

Then hang up.

Your stated purpose for answering of the call was to find out if something horrible happened to XW. When you found it it didnt the purpose for the call was over. End it.

What are they going to say, that you're rude. They hate you already, why would your waste your time?

That was telemarketing call. Nothing they said was going to be in your best interests. So stop it.

As for the texts, what are you saying that has not been said before?

Here's I read it:

XW:Irish, you are a poopy head

Irish: I can prove with irrefutable logic that I am not a poopy head. Exhibit A...

XW: I still think you are a poopy head.

Irish: Here are more scientific reasons why I'm not.

And so on and so forth.

Here is how I would have responded.

XW: Irish. stop trashing my family. You should be an adult and help. This is not right and you talking crap to my sister. It's not right.

Irish:(Crickets)

XW didnt ask a question, she made a factually incorrect statement. she is mentally unbalanced. Why would you argue with her.

Example. Irish is in the park, acosted by a crazy person, and gets into a argument. People do not say, hey thats the smart guy Irish arguing with a crazy person. They say, look at those 2 crazty people arguing.

How did you being polite beyond all reason benefit you. It didnt it just wasted your time. You are working to save lives, you need to conserve your energy for that.

PS: Here is a hint. If your XW or her family says you "should" do something, your should probably do the opposite.


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Hi Everyone

Gerda, nice hearing from you,
Quote
This dialogue is an amazing portrait of how people who don't have ears to hear can't hear


yes, its amazing what people what to hear. I'm sure they are aware ; they just don't have the tools to deal with it.
Sorry that your son pays the price of ignorance.

Quote
I think it helped me in other parts of my life though, as realizing it made me realize that I have always been tortured by the need to be understood, to explain myself, to be the good one.

totally agree with this. It took me a long time to finally let it go. NOt easy and sometimes I slip but I do come back from it faster now that in the beginning.

Hi Bttrfly xxhugsxx
Unbelievable about your XH. married. I presume your son had no clue either. My XW I think she is remarried not sure. Someone said the heard she got married on a row boat in the river lol. Not sure it counts.

I agree, so happy we didn't hold our breaths for them to come back to reality. Sad some stay stuck.

Dejavue, If your XMIL is in the picture you are lucky. If mine had shown some support for the girls at least I would have kept them involved. My XSIL is my oldest god mother to boot. Nada from her. Their loss because my girls are amazing.


HI Job,

Blood is thicker than water. way thicker. But my D's are Xmil blood too , I guess they don't see that.

I think as my girls get older; they will one day reach out to her. Maybe when they become mothers themselves. Who knows. Completely agree on the only talk to them if its rational one.


Hi Andrew,

Yes my XW never was the one to start a conversation to deal with something, Every argument we had it was silence from her. The next day she'd wake up like nothing ever happened. It was draining on me because I am a fixer. My girls thank god love to talk about everything. If something is bothering them we discuss and solve.

HI DnJ
I was surprised they played along with it. Especially XSil. she in the beginning told me she was happy the girls were with me. Seeing first hand the type of men XW was with. I guess time changed that thinking .
Yes, Hurt people do hurt others. Sad when one side knows what the other side should do. In her case i know if she'd start slow, open up to the girls, listen to them and accept the attacks. They could build from that.

Hi Nickwing
Sorry you are in this MLC circus.

I read your comments and yes, I should be cold and cut it off if I hear what I don't want to hear.

I was worried because it was out normal that XMIL or XSIL would try to reach me. I wasn't going to hang up.
I don't hate these people. They chose their own paths. Me hanging up is anger and I don't have any. Anymore at least. I am disappointed in them all. Curious to why they do what they do.

I'll will defend myself to the end. So, if they challenge me I won't just hang up.

More than 5 years into this . I have moved on.

If MIL would call me or write. I'd answer each and every time. I have nothing to hide, I did no wrong. If they ask me something I don’t want to do like force or trick the girls , I'll just say no with the reasons why.

Why should i hang up and ignore.

I trully hope XW figures it out. I want her to be in their lives if it is a healthy relationship.

you say she’s crazy and i agree she does have a mental illness. I could just say nothing to her remarks and hang up. My remarks probably are unheard.

Or I can stay the course. Stay consistent in my replies.

Trust me , I'm not going on a 3 day back and forth text and email battle with these touches. I state my point. I repeat what I have been saying all along and i go on with my day.

Nickwing, we will all do this it our own way. Sure, this site gives us input and suggestions. No 2 stories are the same even though we share a lot of similarities.

All I know is I sleep well, my girls are well and healthy. They are in college and are communacative on all levels.
I will always answer a call in a calm and rational manner. If the MLC circus decides one day to join into rational conversation then it's good. If XW, XMIL and XSIL want to avoid, blame and hate, it's their choice. I will respond with the same responses i've given for 5 years. Then walk away from that conversation with a smile.

have a great week, stay safe everyone


M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
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son knew it was going to happen, just didn't know when. it was postponed from earlier in the year due to Corona, as were so many others.

yours remarried in a rowboat? good grief.

have to admit mon ami I am struggling with this a bit. some days are really hard, others I don't give it a thought.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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I haven’t been on for a while. Hope you all are doing good.

Covid hit my family hard

I know this site isn’t about Covid but my MLC’r ex-wife has proven to me that there is no hope for her because of it.

My parents in their 80’s end of march came down with Covid. First my mom thought it was her seasonal allergies. As days progressed my dad fell ill as well. Myself and my brother do from time to time drop in on them. Bringing them food etc.
Always distancing and wearing a mask.

My parents are autonomous. Very healthy, well as healthy as an 80+ year old can be. This virus hit them hard. It was the UK variant . A very high level of infection

I brought my mom to get tested and was feeling off as well with a weird feeling in my throat that day. well I got tested too.

Both results positive for Covid.

Rush my parents to the hospital with myself as well. Asked my brother to go get tested.

My parents were put into the ICU. I was kept in emergency for 24hrs and sent home to self-isolate and rest. My parents were doing fine for the first 3 days then it all went south. Both had to be put in comas and on ventilators. 4 days after they were gone. Passed away 3 minutes from each other.

My brother who tested positive as well. Was home until he got very ill and since I had Covid as well I brought him to the hospital. He was in the ICU for 3 days. Oxygen support and multiple drugs to help him fight it.

The stress of being home , sick, isolated, losing my parents in one sweep and the thought of maybe losing my brother made me sicker. I was in and out of Covid clinics dealing with heart rates over 160 while laying down, fevers, pains, low oxygen and extreme fatigue. My family here at home did great. Avoided me and dropped food and water at my door. Luckily I have an joining bathroom so Isolation was 100% . they were all tested and all negative.

21 days of h*ll for me. How I managed to get up to get food, no apetite, lost 10 pounds and handle it all is beyond me.

The turnaround for me was when my brother was released from the hospital. 7 days he was there. Now recovering nicely.

It’s been 5 weeks now. I am doing much better. Slowly getting back to work. Coping with the loss of my parents who for sure had several good years left of enjoying life stolen from them.

My girls were so lucky having them in their lives. The trips we did with them each year and seeing them every 2 weekends before Covid hit was so amazing.

I’m comforted that my parents are together and one didn’t survive without the other. They celebrated their 59th wedding anniversary the day before they died in the ICU. Always together in life and now in death.

Now for my Ex-Wife. I heard she was aware of all this . Also my D18 who has reached out to her updated her on the passing of my parents.

D18 got no comment, no sorrow , no condolences from her MLC mother.
I got nothing either.

It just shows me that she is nowhere close to the person I once knew. She is now to me nothing. A faded memory.

My D’s have also expressed their hatred in the coldness of their birthmother . That is all they see her as now.


Sorry for the long and sad post. As you see even Covid and the loss of people that supporter her for 20 years means nothing to a lost soul to MLC.

Take care everyone. Stay safe and hopefully get vaccinated.



Last edited by job; 05/05/21 06:38 PM. Reason: edited a word

M51
XW43 (38 at bd)
BD1 MAY 30 2015
BD2 JUNE 25 2015 by text
moved out Aug 2 2015
left both Daughters 13 and 15 (now 18-20)
Her divorce Final July 26 2016
Last time she saw her kids Aug 2 2015
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My condolences to you and your family on the loss of your parents. It broke my heart to read your posting. I hope that you and your family (brother) are doing better now. Covid has taken a toll on a lot of families in the last year and half. It just makes us more aware of how we must live each day to the fullest and your parents were there for each other to the end. Just know that they are together and looking down on all of you and are there to listen whenever you need to talk.

Irish, your xw's empathy chip is broken and I do not think that she'll ever realize just how precious life is and how quickly we can lose our loved ones.

Again, I am so very sorry on your loss. We are all here for you and your family.


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Dang Irish... I am so sorry to hear. What a heartbreaking story. You have been through so much. Sending positive energy your way.

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I am so sorry for this great sudden loss, Irish. It’s so strange reading it all summarized in a post—there is so much loss packed into such a small space that it’s breathtaking, wrenching to read, but there is also love and survival and hope for you and your brother and your family in your words too. Wishing you strength and comfort and space to grieve too.


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So sorry to hear of your tragic loss Irish. There are no words really. Very glad your brother made it out of the ICU and no one else in the family was infected. Hard to believe there are still people out there who think CV19 is a hoax and/or overblown and think mask-wearing is somehow denying them their rights when there are so many people with similar stories to yours. My sincerest condolences. (((HUGS)))

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I'm so sorry Irish. This is awful. How terrible to lose both parents.
To everyone else on here - GET VACCINATED. Don't hesitate, don't wait any longer - DO IT. You do not want this.

Irish - please take care and pace yourself. Returning to doing too much too fast is a mistake with Covid. In Long Covid patients, alcohol and sugar trigger relapses, antihistamines (both regular claritin or Zyrtec and H2 blockers like Pepcid) seem to help for some reason.

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(((((((Irish))))))))

I was struck reading your post that you most certainly can know a person by how s/he faces loss, devastation, death of loved ones, death of the loved ones of someone s/he used to love. Your XW handled it in a way that made who she is very clear to you. But your light shone through this post too -- the way you faced this terrible journey and loss with love and courage and hope and sorrow -- even your sorrow and despair is a light to us reading this story. Your parents lived love all the way to the end, and you are the son anyone would want there at the end of life, even if it came in this way that seems so unfair. What do we really have in this life but to love each other as hard as we can while we can, to enjoy every moment, and to stand by each other when we are sad or sick -- or dying. Your story shows this at each stage, how to live with this kind of love and grace. You always inspire me as to what a man and a father can be, and now also I see that you are equally wonderful as a son and a brother.

Love to you and your family, so glad your daughters had that model of love in their grandparents, and from their dad before, now and always. They have suffered so much loss, your girls, but I am sure that all the love they have had from you and their grandparents has given them a real foundation, they will be the wisest girls in the world, hard-earned for sure.

Last edited by Gerda; 05/06/21 04:48 AM.

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OMG, I am so sorry for your loss Irish.

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Irish, I've never tuned into your situation, but I am now. I am so, so sorry for your loss. Take care.

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My condolences Irish.

Having both your parents pass is heart wrenching. Yet to pass within minutes of each other does have a level of comfort. Together in this life and now on to next, together.

I am glad you and your brother are on the mend. My goodness, what a hellish time to endure. And you sound like much more than just enduring it. You my dear Irish will pick up the pieces and continue. You are that kind of man.

My thoughts have been with you since reading your post. I suspect much of the needed efforts when love ones leave this mortal realm have been completed or are underway. The following steps, the leading, continuing to live and move forward will ease from its present struggle.

I imagine your daughters were quite worried with all falling ill. Their sadness, joy, relief, sorrow will be confusing for a while I suspect. I know they are strong and stable and capable. For I know their Dad and he is quite a role model.

Their Mom, XW, is a very lost soul. Still, she is incapable of empathy or reaching out. It is little wonder that she could not console or comfort the girls during this time. She is running. She cannot even console herself, never mind anyone else. Such a sad and lost woman.

I do understand and empathize with the bitterness and hatred towards XW expressed by the girls. Their feelings are valid, necessary, healthy, and a very needed part of their grief and loss. Irish, it falls to you, to inspire them to let go and be better not bitter. Forgiving and compassionate.

That is nothing new. You are an amazing Dad. And you and the girls will (and still) flourish; I have no doubt.

My deepest condolences to you and your’s.

D


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Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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my dear friend I am so very deeply sorry to read this post from you! yes, your parents are together and that is the only blessing here. What a horrible, horrible tragedy for your family. I am happy that you and your brother are recovering well and that everyone else in your household is ok.

as for your MLCr ... no words.


M 20+ T25+
S ~15.5 (BD)
BD 4/6/15
D 12/23/16

"Someone I loved once gave me
A box full of darkness.
It took me years to understand,
That this too, was a gift."
~ Mary Oliver
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So very sorry for your loss, Irish. This is truly heartbreaking news. Thank goodness you, your brother and your kids are okay.


Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced
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I’m so sorry for your loss, Irish. This is such a tragic and heartbreaking story. I hope you and the girls are doing ok in processing this grief.


Me- 30's H- 40's
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Dear Irish,

You don't know me but I just wanted to express my deepest respect and condolences
for the recent loss of your parents.

Take care...


Me(45)EXH(44)
M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16
04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1
12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child)
03/22-Divorce official
06/22-08/23 Reconnecting
09/23-possible back with OW2
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So sorry buddy.

Take care.

Tad


Currently:
M 56 XW 57
Sons 38,33,31,29

The Sitch:
Married 26 years
EA w/ OM 9/10
Bomb 10/10 (5 weeks after 25th anniversary)
Sep 12/10
She wants D 1/11
W files 5/11
D final 10/11
XW marries OM 6/13
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