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OK, I *think* we've reached a new stage. W promises she has removed OM from her life and hasn’t talked to him for a few weeks now. She says she separated from me for a different reason though - unhappiness. And she maintains the A was a mistake that was over before I found out and was going to stay swept under the rug when she was ready to try again. She says she is trying to feel happy and ‘get the spark back’. She’s still quite defensive and feels bad about being monitored/checked up on and we haven’t got to the stage of formal R requirements yet. She turned on a phone tracker after the A came out but I’ve removed that as it wasn’t helpful and I think she saw it as me being needy and obsessed with tracking her (wasn’t the case). After turning it off she said I instantly became more desirable. It was perhaps too soon for sharing to that level without any/enough healing. She said she would look at MC but hasn't materialised yet.
We’ve been having more communication and she’s been checking in with me with what she’s doing/where she is etc, I think in an attempt to build trust but also get our communication back. She would be messaging OM all the time so I feel like she could be plugging that hole with me to some extent (as well as other friends). She’s stayed over a few nights but says she is finding all the emotion overwhelming and she’s wondering whether we can ‘get the spark back’. I think she will want to stay over every couple of nights for a while, like when we were dating. I’ve detached and am giving her space to sort her feelings out. I also feel I’m being too available and being unavailable breeds desire right? She says she wants us to feel ‘together’ more than anything. I think I need to detach more.
I know that I know nothing, and she could have taken OM underground which is keeping her stressed, highly strung and emotional; which would explain everything. On the other hand she could be just going through guilt, withdrawal, coming to terms with everything from the last month and putting pressure on herself to make our M work which would also explain everything. I think right now I need to continue GAL, being attractive and apply no pressure. Right now she can come and go as she pleases, which I have let happen because I think it’s better for her to be at home. Part of me thinks it’s a waiting game, I think I need to exercise the idea someone said on the prev thread - keep the driveway clear but don’t go down to the bottom of the drive and pick her up.
Asked W to see her messages and prove she isn’t still in contact with OM. She said she didn’t like the precedent it set and said she could just delete messages so wouldn’t prove anything anyway. Also said I’d probably figure it out anyway if something was still going on. W said I would keep asking too and she doesn’t want to share her private messages to/from her friends with me. W maintains she isn’t talking to OM. W says she is trying to get things back on track but that I should trust her. Had a long conv about it where she broke down in tears and repeatedly said how sorry she was for what she did and wished she hadn’t. Said she continues to feel so bad and has suffered with her decisions and she doesn’t want to make life anymore miserable for herself.
Don’t know what the next steps are because she seems quite firm about it. I could blindly trust or stick to my guns and make it a condition of any further R. Can’t help but feel if I did that (and she was still in contact) she could just clean up her IM for a bit and there’d be no evidence anyway. Want to trust but haven’t got much to go on.
Keep reminding myself that I know nothing for sure. My hunch is that the PA is over but EA maybe not, although she says otherwise.
This is all textbook walkway BS we tried to tell you about that is very predictable. Next step is going to be her telling you she tried and can't get the spark back. Truly remorseful WWs will offer up all passwords and do whatever it takes to make the relationship work.
Whatever you do make sure she doesn't move home until she meets your conditions.
M:51 W:46 T:22 M:16 S:15 D:11
“Don't chase people. Be yourself, do your own thing and work hard. The right people - the ones who really belong in your life - will come to you and stay.”- Will Smith
I'm a big fan of actions over words. I've had a year to think about this. Nobody wants a slave, and wish people would stay on their own volition and be willing to work torwards earn your trust back rather then rebel against it. I have yet to be put in a situation like that.
If I was put in a reconciliation scenario here is my list of requirements, and here is the behaviors torwards R I would look for.
Requirements: Joint counciling weekly to work torwards healing from infidelity. W would have to initiate such voluntarily at H request. Complete and total access to all computers, phones, passwords, messages, emails, to all accounts on demand. (Do your diligence to make sure none are hidden.) Whereabouts at all times. Total control and access over all financial situations, spending, and statements. Access to all journaling and privacy related things. Access to all medical records and all Dr related appointments. (Think birth control on the sneak.) Definately want a panel of STD tests done on her too. Aware of all gym memberships, rec activities, work collegues, hobbies, errands, appointments, shopping, group meetings, friends, etc.
Behaviors to watch for. Is she getting closer and more affectionate, or pulling away and distant. Does she open herself and communicate and make herself more vulnerable? Or does she harbor resentment? Is quiet, removed, distracted or preoccupied? Does she willingly go out of her way to please you, volunteer her time, her effort, and her sincerity with resolve and commitment? Or does she look for more avenues of escape away from M and a different life? Here is an important one. Agency, culpability, and accountability. Does she admit her wrong doings with sincerity, or does she blame shift them onto you about why she feels a certain way? People do change, but watch for changes in dress, music tastes, hobbies, makeup, intimate apparel, shopping habits, and who it is for.
Sounds very controlling abusive and demanding doesn't it? Let me ask you this question? Who cheated? Who betrayed your trust and the trust of the M? How hard are they willing to work, how many hoops are they willing to jump through to earn back your trust? How much effort and work are they willing to provide? How much action are they willing to take to earn back your love trust and respect when they were the ones that stepped out? Here is the best part. How much are you willing to respect yourself to enforce these boundaries, and compliance of conditions. Add or modify them as you like to suit your needs. There is no one size fits all. But bottom line. You are the prize, and trust is earned not given and actions speak louder than words.
I agree with LH19...it appears as though she's hiding things from you and is trying to make you feel bad for wanting to see her text messages. IF she was truly remorseful and wanted to R, she'd be doing what it takes to EARN your trust back.
You need to detach and focus on yourself. Remember the pursuit/distance relationship...it's your time to distance yourself and let her pursue you. She needs to show you with her ACTIONS and be CONSISTENT over TIME.
H 37 W 31 S 2
T: 7 M: 4
BD 12/18 Separated 2/19 Living back together 04/06/2019 W Moved out again 07/15/2019
If she's not agreeable to transparency then she is not ready to reconcile... at least not all the way. My own WW made baby steps towards reconciling and we had a couple of false starts but things didn't really get rolling in earnest until she completely broke down, begged for forgiveness, and offered up all of her passwords, phone, etc.
Why would a spouse in a committed M have any reason to keep passwords and social media website access and the like from their spouse... or hide their phone?! No one should want or expect that kind of "privacy"... from their SPOUSE! Anyway, when a WW says this, she's not talking about privacy, she's talking about secrecy... which are two completely different things. She doesn't want privacy... what is she afraid of or what does she need protecting from that would require "privacy"?... What she wants is secrecy so she can carry on carrying on with OM behind her spouse's back without him knowing.
You'll know when she's ready... sounds like she's not.
Last edited by hoosjim; 02/03/2004:18 PM.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Just wanted to check in although not a lot has changed really. W has stayed over a few times and communication still good (and relationship getting better) but physical side hasn't really improved very far. Still suspect there is ongoing contact with OM that hasn't properly broken off yet although she says it has. W maintains it was all over a long time ago now but if I found out the PA is still active I think I'd have to call it a day as hard as that would be. W still has him on some social media although says communication has stopped. It's just not good enough. Feel a bit in stalemate really but so worn out from everything. I think I need to be stronger and reset some boundaries. W says she is scared of coming home and going back to our previous M incase it doesn't work out.
I think she's scared of getting back and truly getting rid of OM though I don't want to admit that. I worry she's taken OM underground now. Considering all the conversation etc we've had I don't know what I'd do if I found out she's still in contact. Feel I need closure either way. Lots of positive progress regarding our general relationship, but the important part to me is still a big fat no change. W has put up a barrier and said that she doesn't feel right about sharing messages etc as she thinks that's not a healthy restart to the relationship. I think I'm going to have to set it out as an expectation. A small part of me wants to snoop and find out for myself so she isn't in a position to hide or clean it but I know that's probably not healthy. Should I just turn round and give her an ultimatum/set of expectations before she can come home? Should I just demand full access?
Should also add that W says she is so broken about what has happened and is struggling to get by day to day. She’s turned herself into a victim and says while she’s to blame (and has broken down crying a few times now saying how awful she's been, saying she couldn't possibly do this again, saying how much she regrets everything) she is considering antidepressants and says she just feels awful every day. To me I fear that it is because the OM is still on the scene and she’s playing both now. My honest guess is she still has EA but not PA. The optimist in me would like to believe that she just wants to refind the relationship and needs me to be a better partner but if that’s all true it wouldn’t explain why she won’t be entirely transparent.
OS2, my guess? OM is moving on from her. I've seen this twice with both of my W's EAs. They are addicts. They go through withdrawals. While it hurts to see your W broken up over another man, it is an important step in the process.
This would also explain why she isn't ready to give full transparency. She is hoping he'll come back.
M(51), W(52),D(16) M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018