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unchien #2883965 02/04/20 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FlySolo
Think of this as a god send, these are little windows into your W's thinking. It will show you what's important to her - so you know what you are in for and better prepared. I am not saying be mercenary. Just like any other negotiation, it is good to know what things the other party values.

We have spent a lot of time on the fence, waiting, watching, hoping. This is when all that meditation, all those breathing excercises will come to the fore. The discussions will be emotional. It will help if you are not.

I completely agree on the little windows. Her reasoning may be convoluted but I think I understand what her stance will be. It also helps me detach further, realizing she has such little respect for my role as a father. It paints a lot of our marital history with a gray tinge -- fair or not -- but that's how I feel right now.

I am definitely more worked up the last few days than I have been in months. It is not a good feeling. It reminds me how I used to feel. It feels a bit like regressing. But I know I am better equipped to breathe, stay calm, and focus on the big picture. I'm sure it's normal to get stirred up at a time like this.

Originally Posted by FlySolo
Oh, and be fair, she is the mother of your children and you will be in each others lives FOREVER but also don't take any crap.

I intend to be fair but firm. Whether or not it makes her life harder, I cannot accept the status quo, nor do I think it is best for the kids.

Originally Posted by may22
My friend did the L-assisted mediation in CA. It worked well for her, and her exH is a controlling, narcissistic d*ck. She didn't love the process but believes it was better than going to court, and having the L help with the mediation cut out a lot of the garbage he was trying to pull. And they had a number of relatively complicated assets and debts.

I'm open to trying without L's first but I have a short leash on it... I think L assistance may save us both time and money in the end (provided of course that we both have L's who support mediation).

My W is controlling for sure. I don't think she will play games (who knows?) but I think she feels entitled to certain things that are not realistic. Once that fantasy bubble pops, I have no clue how she will react. I also don't know if the bubble will pop immediately.

unchien #2884234 02/06/20 02:05 AM
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Rough day today. The start of mediation.

I'm trying to step back and realize the mediator just makes suggestions. No decisions. Suggesting all kinds of options, some of which are completely unpalatable. It feels like trudging through quicksand.

It's hard to sit and negotiate your entire life -- time with your kids, assets, money. All of it. With the one person you thought would be there for you.

Emotionally I'm sucked back into the anxiety vortex and it s*cks. It feels like moving out and working FT are suddenly bad things... reasons to have less time with the kids, reasons to pay more support money. I understand my W probably has her own anxieties. I also feel taken advantage of. I'm sure she feels screwed over by moving here and our lives falling apart due to UC's issues.

As always in these situations, Option C was the result today. Not Option A (Mediation is working!) or Option B (Mediation is not working!). Just Option C - I guess we are mediating now and it feels like no progress was made.

Why do I keep posting on a DB website at this point? I have no clue. I feel better prepared to handle my emotions due to this place, and it has been a major support network for me. I know I've stated these feelings in the past and people encourage me to keep posting. It's probably time for me to ramp down and consider moving to D support networks, and check in here from time to time like many others do.

unchien #2884238 02/06/20 02:26 AM
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Hey... I was just reflecting on what I just wrote on my own thread, and that maybe I should add a caveat to any newbies out there-- red alert, I'm not really DBing right now, don't do this at home. Maybe you're thinking the same thing now that you have started mediation and want to move over to D networks because you're not really DBing. I totally respect that and you should probably check it out.

But in terms of still posting here-- for me, I still see so much value in learning from others and hearing their experiences and perspectives no matter where they are on the path. D or R or limbo forever, I really appreciate hearing where folks are along the journey. In your case, know that hearing what it is like to go through mediation is helpful for those of us for whom it is a strong likelihood on the horizon. So I hope you do keep posting.

Also, FWIW, you have a lot of people here who support you and are rooting for YOU, not for your M but for YOU.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
unchien #2884243 02/06/20 03:28 AM
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Well unchien, you've posted some very insightful things to me, and for that I'm grateful. I vote that as a reason you might consider staying, as long as it is beneficial in some way to you.

Most folks here talk about DB as if it's this cut and dry thing and I am of the mind it is NOT. It's a few guidelines to help you retain your sense of self with the hopes of improving your R. I posted a rant a long time ago about how there are some here who imply that if you don't DB "correctly" (according to????) you have a lower chance of reconciling. Hogwash. Maybe the real value of these boards is not to adhere to a specific set of rules, but to simply have a live sounding board of folks who have lived it along side you.

I stayed on the boards despite my disagreement with many here. Because there are some really cool folks, and hopefully you've identified a poster or two that just kind of gels with you and the approach you choose to take. Some people who can help you talk through your emotions which change every two seconds. It's way cheaper than therapy (though that's important in many cases as well).

Some might say this is a marriage-saving board. It is. Until it isn't. There are times when stepping away is the best thing to do. I honestly believe the reason I don't hate my XW is because I walked away relatively early when I saw that was her choice. I wasn't going to chase her. If I kept fighting the inevitable I think I would have grown to resent her. Now she's just someone who isn't in my life anymore. But the future? Who knows. It is 100% unwritten. I loved her once, who knows what I might feel for her 5 years from now, but honestly that doesn't take up my brain-space. Right now I only care about 2020 and all the amazing things I'm going to bust my behind to accomplish.

All this to say...this online space is what you want it to be. Make the choice that resonates with you.

unchien #2884254 02/06/20 05:37 AM
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Unchien I am already divorced and have thought the exact same thing as you. I don't usually chime in or offer much advice on your sitch but I do read it each time it is updated and for some reason it helps. It helps knowing that I am not alone in this world of pain and confusion. I have gone over to divorce type forums and have left most of them because the ones I found were filled with a lot of bitterness. This forum seems to concentrate on personal growth which is exactly what you are going to need post divorce.

Unchien know that even though we have never met, I Care.


1st BD December 26, 2008
PA admitted to by XW December 29, 2008

2nd BD May 23, 2019
Daughter confirms EA
Divorce Finalized July 18, 2019
Yail #2884273 02/06/20 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by unchien
It's hard to sit and negotiate your entire life -- time with your kids, assets, money. All of it. With the one person you thought would be there for you.


Yeah it is downright unpleasant. I'm sorry you have to go through this. It does get better once you get everything nailed down though. Not knowing the outcome is what ate me up. How much will I owe? How much custody will I get? How long is this going to drag on? Once it's all on paper, even if it's not exactly what you want at least it's known, defined, unambiguous. And that gives you power over your life again. Just try to remember that no one is "made whole" in D. Both sides want to be made whole, but both have to compromise, and both typically feel they got screwed in the end.

Quote
Why do I keep posting on a DB website at this point? I have no clue. I feel better prepared to handle my emotions due to this place, and it has been a major support network for me.


Sounds like you answered your own question smile

Originally Posted by may22
Also, FWIW, you have a lot of people here who support you and are rooting for YOU, not for your M but for YOU.


Exactly right. A lot of broken marriages do end up reconciling, but that's not really the point of these forums. The point is to take broken PEOPLE and make them better, stronger and more resilient. To turn them into the best version of themselves, and into spouses only a fool would leave. Then if their spouse leaves anyway, well then they are a fool and who wants to be married to a fool?

Originally Posted by Yail
Some might say this is a marriage-saving board. It is. Until it isn't. There are times when stepping away is the best thing to do. I honestly believe the reason I don't hate my XW is because I walked away relatively early when I saw that was her choice. I wasn't going to chase her. If I kept fighting the inevitable I think I would have grown to resent her. Now she's just someone who isn't in my life anymore. But the future? Who knows. It is 100% unwritten. I loved her once, who knows what I might feel for her 5 years from now, but honestly that doesn't take up my brain-space. Right now I only care about 2020 and all the amazing things I'm going to bust my behind to accomplish.

All this to say...this online space is what you want it to be. Make the choice that resonates with you.


Well said. What does it mean to "reconcile" anyway? My XW despised being around me, had nothing good to say about me, said terrible things about me to others. Now we do things together, she asks me for help around her house, she tells others what a great man I am. We're not intimate and we're still divorced, but our relationship is vastly improved over what it was and a lot of that is due to DB'ing. And I tackled many demons I struggled with towards the end of our M. My NGS tendencies, the passive-aggressive habits, the lack of respect I showed towards others, the selfishness. The people here on the DB boards helped me navigate all of that. So I didn't reconcile my marriage, but I did reconcile my relationship with my XW, and I reconciled my life. And that, to me, is the definition of successful DB'ing.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
unchien #2884287 02/06/20 02:49 PM
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It's probably time for me to ramp down and consider moving to D support networks, and check in here from time to time like many others do.


I'm not divorced yet and I'm ready to move to a D support network I just haven't had time to find an active one. Some D forums are geared towards those who wanted the D. That would make me worse.

Last edited by kas99; 02/06/20 02:50 PM.
unchien #2884292 02/06/20 02:59 PM
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Thanks may, Yail, rooskers, AS ~ You've all pointed out in different ways about the allure of DB'ing. It truly is about saving myself. And the lack of bitterness is refreshing.

The first mediation session was frustrating. I don't think it's wise to share many details here. My take was that the mediator talks through the options, and will gently nudge one of us in a certain direction as needed. It was hard to tell, and sometimes I felt completely unsupported. Maybe I'm reacting too emotionally. I don't know.

I didn't come in overly strong. This is private mediation... the point is not to get the mediator to agree with me, it's for my W and I to work towards agreements. My W (predictably) wants to stay in the house and have maximal time with the kids. I (predictably) want more time with the kids, and to stop effectively over-paying support. I felt like the burden was on me to prove (with my FT job) that I can work a schedule where the kids can stay in their after-school activities. I

The details of the house situation make it frustrating but I don't really want to share. There are ways she could keep it, but I take some risk. I do think the kids staying there is just fine, and would be better for them, if she could swing it on her own at no risk to me. But realistically I am going to have to bend quite a bit to help make that happen.

On the flip side, I felt very little willingness by my W to agree to give me extra time with the kids. She offered an after-school time slot (no over night) on a weekday.

My anxiety has been a steady 8 to 9/10 the last 2 days. Last time I felt anxiety this high was 7 months ago when I thought my W was going to withhold the children from overnights at my house. 9/10 means forget meditation or exercise. I went for a walk when I got home last night which helped some. I'm waking up in the middle of the night for good, and appetite has fallen to zero.

One of my friends last night told me, "I wonder how long you can keep going like this." (Meaning, trying to mediate F2F). This was only the first session, but it has the potentially to eat me alive. My work performance suffers. My self-care suffers. Part of it is the situation, and part of it is my own anxiety and my own difficulties working through things.

My thoughts easily spiral into doom and gloom. Example train of thought: I'm still operating in NGS mode. I still want an agreement where we maximize our joint happiness. I want to be pleasant. I want to fight for myself too. But I can't figure out where to draw that line, because of my NGS and upbringing. Kids are involved. How will this impact them? What is best for them? What sort of man am I? What is the "right" thing to do? If I hand this off to a L, am I escaping my own demons by not handling my things like AMOAFWL? Am I a coward? Am I a bully? Am I too stuck in my head? (yes, obviously).

I understand now why many fathers in the FT/SAH dynamic give up on the process (not here at DB forums, but in general). It would be easy to accept an "every other weekend" set up. It's easy to start doubting myself... am I really capable of being a 50/50 dad while working FT? Can I handle that? Is that better for the children? Is their mother going to be able to handle this? They need her to be strong too.

Ugh...

unchien #2884380 02/06/20 10:32 PM
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Hey U -

Just wanted to chime in with some words of support. I cannot offer much in the way of wisdom as I am feeling low at the moment and I've decided for once to let myself feel that way instead of ignoring it.

I'll say that I think the others are right - posting here has helped you greatly.

So why stop?

I'm right there with you on the anxiety and obsessive thinking. It's my greatest 180 challenge. It's a helluva challenge too. It takes everything I've got sometimes, so I understand what you are talking about.

Take care of yourself, man. smile

unchien #2884388 02/06/20 11:58 PM
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Thanks IW ~ I'm pretty sure I'll keep on posting. Let's not kid anyone, I can't help myself laugh

I notice the swirling thoughts and emotions, and then notice when they start to settle. The swirl is a familiar feeling. I don't want to eat, I'm jittery and tired, exhausted yet wide awake.

Awareness is the one thing that seems to reduce my anxiety. The one skill I've worked on that seems to matter more than anything right now. Those little sliver moments of recognition that I'm repeating an old pattern, exaggerating, catastrophizing, trying to solve problems that are unsolvable. I feel the momentary dip from a 9/10 to a 7/10. It is a relief.

The thoughts come wave after wave like an all-out brain assault. It takes a relentless awareness to disposition them or they worm their way right back into the familiar old grooves.

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