One of the complaints WW brought to me recently is the reason we stopped fighting for so long is because after we moved house I still kept my job but the commute became 1.5 hrs each way.
I would come home and we'd both be tired and end up watching something on Netflix. So although there were no arguments, she felt disconnected from me and I thought things were ok because no one was fighting.
I also wanted to mention that I did all the finances for WW. She doesn't even open her own mail unless it's a card or an invitation. I've been paying the bills and keeping the lights on since we were married as she wasn't very good at that before we met.
I don't know if I did the right thing - she was happy for me to take care of it - but I see I created someone wholly dependent on me to do everything. She does work f/t and makes average wage. I did her car inspection, topped the fluids up, renewed her registration. Even now she doesn't check the oil level and will tell me if the low oil pressure light comes on. I planned all our vacations - literally all of them. She rarely had an idea about where to take the kids and I regret the few times that she did I didn't take her seriously. Wish I had done otherwise.
Last edited by Cadet; 02/05/2002:38 PM. Reason: combine posts
Sorry you're here buddy. You've got some fantastic vets on your side though.
Re your last post, try not to second guess what you did or did not do right.
I too did the car stuff for my XW - all of it. Heck, I even painted her nails for her! She chose the vacations - I organised them. You see, it seems like you took the lead on big things and did the organising and implementation of the big things and the little things. My XW took the lead on the big things, I mainly took the lead on small day to day things, as well as most of the implementation and organising. Yet, here we still both are.
If she wants you to change the oil and continue to look after her car, next time she asks tell her "I'm busy. I think it's best you take it to Joe's Garage. Here's their number".
Or, if you're content doing it, think about something you can ask her to do in return. There needs to be reciprocity. Do it early. I endured months of giving and accommodating, til I decided give and take is mutual, and there's nothing wrong with asking without offering something immediately in return, and there's nothing wrong with politely and neutrally indicating you wont be doing something they want you to do.
Have you joined the gym yet? Better still, get a home gym, put it in a favourite corner of your home, and create your sanctuary. Get a new stylish age appropriate wardrobe, cut your hair, wear cologne and eat right. Emotional changes are hard to make short term - your appearance can change drastically in the short term though.
I'd also find RobX's threads and posts and read them all. I was inspired by what he did. He's in R2C's quotes thread if you cant search him. Someone suggested you have NGS. Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover too.
Good luck mate!
Cheers DS
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
How can you change the dynamic of your situation?
Truth darts from LH here. Drh, as a certain bald TV counselor likes to say: how is what you are doing working for you? Doesn't sound like it is. If you ask 100 women what they want in a guy, 90 of them would talk about sweetness, sensitivity, chivlary. Yet if you look at the kinds of guys that the same 100 women go after in a social setting it is the tough, bad guy that has some mystery, and even some danger, surrounding him.
Maybe you aren't tough or a bad guy or even dangerous. But can you be mysterious? "Sorry, I know your car needs maintenance, but you will have to take it to the shop. I am too busy to do that for you..........."
LH is giving you a formula here to help you change your thinking. I do a lot of things for my friends, both male and femal, without any "attraction" involved. If you are happy being her friend, then keep doing what you are doing. But Google "The friend zone" and decide if that is where you want to reside in your soon-to-be ex-wife's life.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Sorry you're here buddy. You've got some fantastic vets on your side though.
Re your last post, try not to second guess what you did or did not do right.
I too did the car stuff for my XW - all of it. Heck, I even painted her nails for her! She chose the vacations - I organised them. You see, it seems like you took the lead on big things and did the organising and implementation of the big things and the little things. My XW took the lead on the big things, I mainly took the lead on small day to day things, as well as most of the implementation and organising. Yet, here we still both are.
If she wants you to change the oil and continue to look after her car, next time she asks tell her "I'm busy. I think it's best you take it to Joe's Garage. Here's their number".
Or, if you're content doing it, think about something you can ask her to do in return. There needs to be reciprocity. Do it early. I endured months of giving and accommodating, til I decided give and take is mutual, and there's nothing wrong with asking without offering something immediately in return, and there's nothing wrong with politely and neutrally indicating you wont be doing something they want you to do.
Have you joined the gym yet? Better still, get a home gym, put it in a favourite corner of your home, and create your sanctuary. Get a new stylish age appropriate wardrobe, cut your hair, wear cologne and eat right. Emotional changes are hard to make short term - your appearance can change drastically in the short term though.
I'd also find RobX's threads and posts and read them all. I was inspired by what he did. He's in R2C's quotes thread if you cant search him. Someone suggested you have NGS. Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover too.
Good luck mate!
Cheers DS
I've decided to stop doing all those things I used to do - as it is I don't take her anywhere with me and the kids since she decided to separate. As for the car, she can change her own oil and top up fluids.
There was almost no reciprocity from her now that I think about it. She took me for granted with the expectation I would always do those things.
I am going to join a gym. This month I have been working on 180s. Next month time to work on me.
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
How can you change the dynamic of your situation?
You raise a good question. Is it appreciated or reciprocated? I think no to the second. I never asked her for a favor - and she never offered to return my gesture of goodwill.
I get a sense from you that you are the cliche that women say they want in a man. The problem is most women don't even know what they want in a man. It's great that you do all those things for your W but the important question is whether or not it is appreciated or reciprocated? My guess it isn't and that is why she wants to sleep with other man. She wants a man she can't have her way with. BS right? Yep but that's exactly what is happening right now. The beauty for her is she knows if it doesn't work out she has good old fluid topper DRH to fall back on.
How can you change the dynamic of your situation?
Truth darts from LH here. Drh, as a certain bald TV counselor likes to say: how is what you are doing working for you? Doesn't sound like it is. If you ask 100 women what they want in a guy, 90 of them would talk about sweetness, sensitivity, chivlary. Yet if you look at the kinds of guys that the same 100 women go after in a social setting it is the tough, bad guy that has some mystery, and even some danger, surrounding him.
Maybe you aren't tough or a bad guy or even dangerous. But can you be mysterious? "Sorry, I know your car needs maintenance, but you will have to take it to the shop. I am too busy to do that for you..........."
LH is giving you a formula here to help you change your thinking. I do a lot of things for my friends, both male and femal, without any "attraction" involved. If you are happy being her friend, then keep doing what you are doing. But Google "The friend zone" and decide if that is where you want to reside in your soon-to-be ex-wife's life.
Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. Yes, they are truth darts. Am I a tough guy? I don't come across as one. I'm a nice guy but am working on this. I can be mysterious I just need to learn how.
I am not happy being her friend and have told her we cannot be friends - ever. I'm not interested in being in the friend zone and made that very clear to her.
Hey, Doc... Did you move back into the MBR yet?...
Me: 38 W:31 Kids: S16(mine from previous R), D10, S9, S4 M: 10 years T:12 years BD:Jan 3, 2018 W moved out: Apr 13,2018 Filed for D: Jun 2018 D final: Sep 2019
Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. Yes, they are truth darts. Am I a tough guy? I don't come across as one. I'm a nice guy but am working on this. I can be mysterious I just need to learn how.
Another important point to all of this, is that it doesn't have to be "fake" or just a persona you "put on". I see comments here and there on these forums about how some of the advice like this looks like "a bunch of beta guys trying to act alpha" or that adopting some of these behaviors is "fake" or "manipulative". I really take issue with those characterizations. Anyone can change how they behave, and any behavior can become habitual/ingrained (i.e. "who you are"). What's more, alot of these behaviors, I am convinced, synch up very well with who we are primally as men. In my case, I was never a hugely outgoing, super-talkative person, or one who was "easy to get to know" or who would banter alot with people I didn't know well, although i wasn't a wallflower, either. (I actually almost always test around 50/50 on introvert/extrovert on those "personality type" tests.) The thing is, I found out that bantering/flirting is fun... so is being a little mysterious. Quite simply, it's part of being playful... which every person, not just men... need. The feedback you get from engaging folks that way is almost universally positive... which makes it even more fun.
Similar dynamic with confidence... it's a self-enforcing feedback loop. It feeds who we really are, who we want to be, and the feedback you get from others, implicit or explicit, validates that and helps it become part of who you are.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by hoosjim; 01/30/2004:22 PM.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Steve, I appreciate your thoughts. Yes, they are truth darts. Am I a tough guy? I don't come across as one. I'm a nice guy but am working on this. I can be mysterious I just need to learn how.
Another important point to all of this, is that it doesn't have to be "fake" or just a persona you "put on". I see comments here and there on these forums about how some of the advice like this looks like "a bunch of beta guys trying to act alpha" or that adopting some of these behaviors is "fake" or "manipulative". I really take issue with those characterizations. Anyone can change how they behave, and any behavior can become habitual/ingrained (i.e. "who you are"). What's more, alot of these behaviors, I am convinced, synch up very well with who we are primally as men. In my case, I was never a hugely outgoing, super-talkative person, or one who was "easy to get to know" or who would banter alot with people I didn't know well, although i wasn't a wallflower, either. (I actually almost always test around 50/50 on introvert/extrovert on those "personality type" tests.) The thing is, I found out that bantering/flirting is fun... so is being a little mysterious. Quite simply, it's part of being playful... which every person, not just men... need. The feedback you get from engaging folks that way is almost universally positive... which makes it even more fun.
Similar dynamic with confidence... it's a self-enforcing feedback loop. It feeds who we really are, who we want to be, and the feedback you get from others, implicit or explicit, validates that and helps it become part of who you are.
Hope this helps.
WELL SAID! Just responded in another thread where people were talking about it as if they were actors. Act....until it becomes the new norm. Once you get there then you'll be surprised at how natural it becomes, even if it wasn't at first.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
