Hi there, I'm new here and I'm not fully sure what info you're in need of. I'm in my late 30s, husband is early 40s. We've been together for 17 years and have two kids - 4 and 6. In those years, I've lost my job, went to university and got 2 degrees, he went back to college and graduated, we've bought two houses, he had an affair, entered recovery for alcohol, dealt with the death of his mom and we've dealt with infertility. We haven't communicated well in the past and both became complacent in our marriage. Things have been rough for the last couple of months. Before Christmas, he told me he wanted to get through Christmas and then talk about our marriage. January 4th he told he wanted to separate. Jan 7th I told him I wanted to work on our marriage and wasn't ready to give up, that I had been hopeful this whole time that things would work out. That when he did little things for me (specific example I gave was buying me the little surprise bags of candy that my corner store sells) it makes me believe that he still loves me. Jan 8th I bought the book and started devouring it. I'm trying not to pursue, not to let his moods affect me etc. In the past 2 weeks, he invited me out for breakfast, texted to pick me up coffee on his way home (hasn't happened in over 6 months) and bought me a bag of candy. I was trying so hard not to get my hopes up.
Last night he told me that nothing has changed and he's going to start apartment hunting.
I am gutted.
I don't know what to do.
I don't want my marriage to end. We have been through so much [censored], I can't just give up.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I need a new cross-stitch to do (the one I'm currently working on was for him) and I think it will be this quote "Believe none of what he says and half of what he does." I was looking for clues and hints in every action and word that he still loves me. I honestly believe he is depressed.
Hi there, I'm new here and I'm not fully sure what info you're in need of. I'm in my late 30s, husband is early 40s. We've been together for 17 years and have two kids - 4 and 6. In those years, I've lost my job, went to university and got 2 degrees, he went back to college and graduated, we've bought two houses, he had an affair, entered recovery for alcohol, dealt with the death of his mom and we've dealt with infertility. We haven't communicated well in the past and both became complacent in our marriage. Things have been rough for the last couple of months. Before Christmas, he told me he wanted to get through Christmas and then talk about our marriage. January 4th he told he wanted to separate. Jan 7th I told him I wanted to work on our marriage and wasn't ready to give up, that I had been hopeful this whole time that things would work out. That when he did little things for me (specific example I gave was buying me the little surprise bags of candy that my corner store sells) it makes me believe that he still loves me. Jan 8th I bought the book and started devouring it. I'm trying not to pursue, not to let his moods affect me etc. In the past 2 weeks, he invited me out for breakfast, texted to pick me up coffee on his way home (hasn't happened in over 6 months) and bought me a bag of candy. I was trying so hard not to get my hopes up.
Last night he told me that nothing has changed and he's going to start apartment hunting.
I am gutted.
I don't know what to do.
I don't want my marriage to end. We have been through so much [censored], I can't just give up.
Help.
SOrry you are here. But I think many of the posters here can help you find some clarity.
You've read the book so you are already further ahead than the majority of newcomers here. However, I can see you are still hyper-focused on him looking for any signs of a turnaround. You you detach well by not pursuing and not letting his moods (I would challenge you to change that to not letting his words and actions affect your mood!), then he feels a loss of control over you and starts with the breakfasts, coffees, and candies. It is typical WAS behavior. He wants you as his Plan B. And as long as he feels he can come back to you anytime that he wants, he will continue to look at his walkaway plan as Plan A.
He's had an affair in the past so likely he is already working on another, if not already in another. However, none of that changes what you need to do. What you need to is remove yourself as Plan B. YOu don't do that through words, you do that through actions. GAL like crazy. Be busy busy busy. 180 on the bad behavior you might have engaged in the past. Become a woman only a fool would leave. And keep working on detachment. I know you said you are trying to not pursue or let his moods affect you, but guess what. A few breakfasts, coffees and candies later you start to have expectations, and set yourself up for being gutted when he tells you he still wants what he told you he wants. Your goal should be that he could come to you and tell you he had a orgy with 50 women, and you would be all: "Ok." and go right back to whatever you were doing without batting an eye. Difficult? Yes. But not impossible.
Expect the worst, hope for the best.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Went to order the DR book and realized I forgot my wallet at home, but it's in my cart!! I don't want to order it through amazon since we share an account and I don't want him to see
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
My DB book is hidden under my bed and I am only accessing this from a laptop he doesn't have the password for and has never once used. I'm not even going to log onto this site with my phone. I ordered the book and then archived the order with amazon (Thank you Google!) I also created a filter on the junk email we use for amazon so that any emails with amazon in it will be redirected to my personal email
hi there. Oh man I know what those gut punches feel like....that really stinks. But trust me, he isn't sure about what he's doing or he'd have done it and cut you out of his life already.
Here are the basics that most people ignore for 6 to 12 months post bomb drop:
1. Detach. What he says doesn't affect the way you feel, your judgement, your words or actions. 2. Don't believe anything he says and only half of what he does. 3. GAL. Do things that you like to do. Tell us what this looks like. 4. Be patient. Be a good listener. Don't pursue someone who is stating they don't want you. 5. Be attractive.
Not giving up is going to seem like giving up at first. But putting pressure on him to change his mind is not going to work either.
Stay on incognito mode for this website, that's what I do.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
So sorry that you are here. However, you have come to a very supportive place. I am a newcomer too and have found so much helpful information. I come here to vent a lot and it helps me get out of a funk. Keep posting. There is a lot of support and understanding here.
Originally Posted by Steve85
[/quote] ...Your goal should be that he could come to you and tell you he had a orgy with 50 women, and you would be all: "Ok." and go right back to whatever you were doing without batting an eye. Difficult? Yes. But not impossible.
Expect the worst, hope for the best.
Steve85, this is the BEST advice. I am working hard to get to this place in detachment!
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
So sorry that you are here. However, you have come to a very supportive place. I am a newcomer too and have found so much helpful information. I come here to vent a lot and it helps me get out of a funk. Keep posting. There is a lot of support and understanding here.
Originally Posted by Steve85
...Your goal should be that he could come to you and tell you he had a orgy with 50 women, and you would be all: "Ok." and go right back to whatever you were doing without batting an eye. Difficult? Yes. But not impossible.
Expect the worst, hope for the best.
Steve85, this is the BEST advice. I am working hard to get to this place in detachment!
[/quote] Steve was making a point here and exaggerating. He is getting at the idea that our spouses will do crazy things when we are in our situations and we have to prepare for this, and not let them get to us.
I think if someone's spouse told them they just slept with 50 people it would be OK to be angry and get out of that marriage. I'd also be wondering what was going on with myself that I found a person who was capable of these things. How would that not disgust anyone?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
ovrrnbw: Yes, I knew it was an exaggeration, but it is a helpful one for sure. In other words, expect crazy, crazy things. If my H came home with this confession, I would be filing for divorce the next day because I would know for sure that H had gone mentally ill to the point of no return if he did something like this. LOL
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
Focus on what you can control. Your behavior and your interactions. Things that work are so counter-intuitive. Every part of your being wants to pursue, but pulling away works better.
Change your bad habits. Be attractive. Be seductive. Know the difference. Fix you. Let him fix him.
Google "stockdale paradox" and apply it to your life.
Quote
Stockdale explained this idea as the following: "You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end — which you can never afford to lose — with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Lots of folks do. In fact, I am dealing with an issue at work right now where one team assumed another team's silence was agreeance (yes I know that is an old English word, but I like it!).
But again, in these sitches we really don't care what the WAS thinks. That is what detachment is all about!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve, help me understand what you are saying by, "Not reacting is NOT acceptance".
Quote
Originally Posted by Cest_Moi
Quote
Originally Posted by Steve85
Note: Not reacting is NOT acceptance.
I really struggle with this!!
FWIW, I was taught that there is a difference in reacting and responding. A reaction is associated with a negative act, whereas, a response is associated with a positive act.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Steve, help me understand what you are saying by, "Not reacting is NOT acceptance".
Quote
Originally Posted by Cest_Moi
Quote
Originally Posted by Steve85
Note: Not reacting is NOT acceptance.
I really struggle with this!!
FWIW, I was taught that there is a difference in reacting and responding. A reaction is associated with a negative act, whereas, a response is associated with a positive act.
What I mean is that when you do not react to what someone says or does it doesn't mean you agree with what they've said or done. But what you said is also true. It is always better to respond than react.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So my book should be here Tuesday! I went out and got a haircut and a new cross stitch to keep me busy.
I am being cordial, but not chasing after him for conversation or finding reasons to talk to him like I usually would.
I am being vague about plans and he is actually asking follow up questions to them "I won't be home after work, I have an appt" - Usually I would tell him when and where and what time I'd be home. Now, I just leave it at that.
I'm trying hard to do the 180, but it is a struggle.
I'm not sure where the lines are - do I tell him about the cute things the kids did/said? Or just things that concern him as a parent.
It's so hard living together and going to bed together as we deal with this but we are trying to keep things as normal as possible for the kids until he saves up enough for an apartment.
I am such a planner and control person - I have a home planner, work one and a personal one. The fact that all of this is out of my control and I don't have a checklist or plan is really difficult for me. I always loved math because 1 + 1 = 2. I hated science because of all the variables - and this is all such a science!
To recap: I am not initiating conversation I am doing things for me I am giving limited details of what I'm doing I'm trying to GAL but I also don't want to leave my kids a lot I've got one book and the other on the way I'm trying not to look for hope when he initiates conversation or does nice things for me I'm dressing nice and doing my hair and makeup I'm always smiley and upbeat
It's so hard living together and going to bed together as we deal with this but we are trying to keep things as normal as possible for the kids until he saves up enough for an apartment.
I am such a planner and control person - I have a home planner, work one and a personal one. The fact that all of this is out of my control and I don't have a checklist or plan is really difficult for me. I always loved math because 1 + 1 = 2. I hated science because of all the variables - and this is all such a science!
To recap: I am not initiating conversation I am doing things for me I am giving limited details of what I'm doing I'm trying to GAL but I also don't want to leave my kids a lot I've got one book and the other on the way I'm trying not to look for hope when he initiates conversation or does nice things for me I'm dressing nice and doing my hair and makeup I'm always smiley and upbeat
What else? What am I missing?
Sorry you are here CM. You're feeling the loss of control and uncertainty which is driven by fear. Its hard, unbelievably hard.
For the sleeping arrangements, the vets may have a better take.
Your planning and control...it's good you recognise this about yourself. Question for you...did you control him? Did he ever complain about either. If so, relinquishing the control should be one of your 180s. He may feel like he's walking on eggshells, cant be himself, criticized, not treated equally. I'm controlling as well so I can understand how hard yet how freeing it is to let go.
Talking about the kids will need to happen but the recommendation here is to usually keep it business. "Im going out tomorrow, please watch them till I'm back". The fun, loving things they do, tell a grandparent or relative. Missing the family unit at times can clear the fog the spouse is in.
If you're missing them, GAL with the kids. Take them to an indoor pool, the mall, museum. Read up hard on validation. For you and everyone in your life. Validate your own feelings, not just others.
For 180s...what are behaviors your spouse disliked the most? If you agree these things are issues worth correcting for YOU, then 180 them.
No matter the outcome, build a better you. For yourself and the kids. Be the foundation those kids need.
Last edited by Core; 01/26/2003:51 AM.
H37, W37 D4, S2 ILYBNILWY 9/19 BD 9/19 EA discovered 10/19 Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Work on being a good listener when he talks . If your a planner and control person this can be hard . I started with learning to be quiet and not giving my opinion on much . I always got pull back when I gave too much.
I found my H love language and built on that . His was clear though I didn’t have to even ask him . He did something I just said thank you softly . Grew from there .
Be mysterious. Dressing nice is great but how are you being mysterious. I came home with sunburn often . He would dig to see how I got it . Always just said too much sun . I think recently i told him I went out boating with my friends a lot he was still wondering!
Enjoy your kids . GAL with them . I bought $6 concert tickets and went out on a Friday night . Found free things to do . Dress nice just to go to the mall . Be a better you . Don’t include him or even tell him .
You will get stronger. My H still says how did you not cry during all of it . Guess what I did I just never let him know .
My control with him is pretty mild - I believe a lot of it is due to his past affair - when he goes out, I 'casually' ask where he's going, with who, etc. Same with phone calls - I don't always ask outright, sometimes I just look. Now, when he heads out, I smile and say "Have fun!" and he will sometimes tell me where he's going.
My control is very much present in my house and my kids - my towels are folded and put away a certain way, I hate to be away from my kids (I believe a lot of that stems from my infertility), everything has a place etc (although I'm not necessarily a neat freak)
I will switch to filling in my friends on my amazing kids - we have kids all the same age, so it's not out of the ordinary haha
He disliked my lack of affection, not allowing the girls to have sleepovers at my moms (that's a whole other can of worms. They are safe with her, it's just friction with her and me), my need to discuss things (I'm opinionated and will respectfully defend my opinion), my checking in. Those are all things that I am willing to change (to a degree, I can't roll over and agree with every opinion he has, but I don't have to argue about it. We're not the UN, we don't have to agree or debate) and am trying to!
Another question as I navigate these waters - He wants to move out, so should I suggest separating our funds now and we each contribute half to the household?
If he's moving out, you need to take half of the funds from the accounts and place them in your new separate account. If you don't do this, he will most likely take all of the funds or leave you w/just a little bit left in the account. I think it's time that you make a spreadsheet that indicates what funds are coming in each month and what is going out on household expenses and then, hopefully, come to an agreement on what he will pay in child custody and the household.
Do not believe anything he promises/tells you. They like to tell us what we want to hear and then they do the exact opposite in most cases. You will now need to look at your situation as a business deal gone south and protect yourself, your children and your assets as much as possible.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Do not believe anything he promises/tells you. They like to tell us what we want to hear and then they do the exact opposite in most cases. You will now need to look at your situation as a business deal gone south and protect yourself, your children and your assets as much as possible.
That's the hard part - he's sworn to me that he won't come for his equity in the house (we've only been in it for 3 years), that I can keep all the monthly child tax, he won't come for my pension, he only wants a tv and dresser. He said he doesn't hate me and wants the house to stay as normal as possible for the kids. We both work jobs where we see the results of kids being used as pawns in divorces and have always sworn that that would never be us. Even before the talk of splitting happened, when it happened with friends, he swore he would work two jobs to ensure the kids could stay in their home. He knew what it was like to constantly move and hated it.
Get to a lawyer as soon as possible and have papers drawn up that stipulate exactly what will be done when you separate. They will promise you the moon and when they are out of the house for a bit, all of those promises go away. Now is the time to get something in writing because he wants to leave so badly and will most likely sign anything you put in front of him... do it the legal way and be sure that you ask your lawyer about direct deposit of all funds from him to your new bank account. That way, you aren't waiting around for late checks, etc.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
We were hoping to do this simply with a mediator when the time comes. Where I live you have to be separated for a min of a year prior to filing for divorce, so it wasn't on my immediate list. I can't afford a lawyer at this stage.
I could email H about all the finances and then at least if he responds, I have it in 'writing'
I know I'm not supposed to initiate conversations about the relationship - would discussing finances qualify?
Just because you have something in writing doesn't mean that he will stick with it. Promises can be broken and that's why it's better to have something written up by a lawyer and signed by both of you. What you need to find out is if there is something called "separation papers" in your area. Also, you need to find out about having the monthly funds from his check direct deposited into your account.
Finances are something that definitely need to be discussed. It is very important that you take care of you and your family because once he's out the door, he's not really going to be there for you and your family. I may be wrong about that, but you need to protect your financial assets as much as possible.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you! I will look those up - it will be hard as it seems so permanent to put it in writing, but I need to be proactive and take care of my girls.
I just wrote up a budget and am going to ask him to start using his own bank account and cancel his card for the one we have jointly since I'm keeping the house, I need to keep the bank account with the mortgage attached and I will change the passwords on all my financial stuff.
Then he can deposit his half for everything in there every two weeks. I don't think his work can do split direct deposit. Then I can no longer obsess about what he's spending money on cause I won't know.
The financial bubble burst pretty quick sometimes after they move out . Once reality sets in that he now has to support himself along with the W he left and kids . My H has never been involved in paying bills . Keeps certain amount of money from each check . He continued to try to pay his share of my household and live outside the home . He constantly ran out of money from not managing it properly while living on his rollercoaster. I left no more than a $100 in our joint account and every pay he moved money in and texted me . Within minutes I moved it to my single account . They promise the world but Never trust it . Yes separate your funds if he’s moving out .
FWIW, I was taught that there is a difference in reacting and responding. A reaction is associated with a negative act, whereas, a response is associated with a positive act.
My believe is reacting is responding uncontrolled while responding is a controlled response.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
So I brought up the finances to him - despite him taking over the bills this past year, he is clueless. He told me even if I keep the house, I was in a good spot financially. Ha! I'm left with $120 every two weeks to pay for incidentals and gas.
He's calmly talking about all this as if I asked him what the weather was going to be like tomorrow meanwhile my soul and heart are crumbling.
He is costing his kids their home - their playroom, backyard, bedrooms etc. and is not willing to even try. There is no major event that brought this BD, it was a slow erosion that can be fixed.
I was calm and non-emotional, only needing to stop him one time when we were talking about filing for divorce and how he doesn't see the need to unless one of us plans on re-marrying (which he said he doesn't). I asked him to stop as it's still a bit too fresh of a wound to think of.
I want to scream and cry and break down. I want to go into hiding and never come out.
Last edited by job; 01/27/2001:29 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
I found my H love language and built on that . His was clear though I didn’t have to even ask him . He did something I just said thank you softly . Grew from there .
His love language is totally physical touch - which I can't do right now
Quote
Be mysterious. Dressing nice is great but how are you being mysterious. I came home with sunburn often . He would dig to see how I got it . Always just said too much sun . I think recently i told him I went out boating with my friends a lot he was still wondering!
I love it! I feel so old - I'm late 30s and we've been together almost 20 years - I don't know how much mystery there is in me!! I need to think on this one
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Enjoy your kids . GAL with them . I bought $6 concert tickets and went out on a Friday night . Found free things to do . Dress nice just to go to the mall . Be a better you . Don’t include him or even tell him .
I'm trying so hard to be a better me. I've started working out, making sure I do my nails (except tonight, it was a bad night)
Quote
You will get stronger. My H still says how did you not cry during all of it . Guess what I did I just never let him know .
I hope so - I need strength right now. He send so many confusing messages IE: helping out with the kids at bedtime whereas before once they were in bed, it was all me, now he's helping. Making lunches and meals, helping with chores etc and then making sure to tell me every week or two that nothing has changed and he still wants out.
He thinks it is ok, so he continues that behavior. It sounds dumb, but this situation, has been he is home and in the bedroom with the door closed. I know where he is and I can continue my GAL and he’s home. It is less anxiety inducing. This is coming from someone who had no idea what he was doing for the three months he was out of the country. When he returned, it was apparent that he was not going to do anything here. So now that it seems as if the OW is over, I am just wondering when the next one will come along and what it will be like.
Divorce Remedy came today and I devoured the chapters on depression and MLC. I swear they were describing my H to a T. I feel like a small weight was lifted - I'm not crazy.
Have you visited the MLC Forum? You should pop over there when you have time and read some of the threads, especially if you think Divorce Remedy was spot in the description of your h.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I haven't yet - (Had to feed the kidlets and get them ready! ) but I will!
This is so hard - H is being so friendly with me, insisting I continue my classes, showing me videos he finds interesting etc. It's all so normal and happy which is a complete contrast to my insides.
He was talking to me about problems at work and I really tried to validate instead of problem-solving. I said things like "That would be frustrating" " I can see why that would upset you" etc
He's talking to me and interacting with me more than before he asked to separate but also brought up separating again.
I have my first IC appt tomorrow - it was a last minute cancellation and I almost didn't take it because of work, but I am putting myself first.
I think the friendliness is usually guilt-induced. Like other posters have said, also because he’s not sure of his own feelings. Anyone can be a grown up and be “nice” to people, but that’s not really what matters in this case, right?
Take it at face value, don’t dwell in his niceness. Do what you have to do to detach, grow, and love yourself again. I’m glad to hear that you’re putting yourself first.
I understand all this is 10 times harder when you have young children. Hang in there!
I haven't been a priority to myself in probably 6+ years. Even before that - I was focused on my H (Can you say co-dependent???)
I'm ok with him not being sure of his own feelings - it gives me a glimmer of hope - not all is lost as long as there is a glimmer.
The person he initially fell in love with was confident, social, happy-go-lucky. Now I'm self-conscious (2 kids and speeding towards 40 will do that for you!), withdrawn and quiet. I have a class tomorrow, plans on Thurs (just me) and Fri (me and kids) and Sunday coffee date with myself (unless I can find a friend to join me). I've stopped walking around the house hunched over with my head down, and apologizing for being in his way. Now I'm head up and doing my own thing. Fake it till you make it right?
I am in no way telling you to lie but my H had this weird pattern . He would take kids . Spend all day with them and then have family watch them and go out to party . They were safe and never really noticed so I let it go on a bit . I noticed a pattern when he was done Partying he would send me messages in the middle of the nite . Some really hurtful ones , sometimes how he missed me . This would go on as I would respond . I don’t know what got into me (probably read something on here) but one night I wrote back . I have big plans in the morning I will talk to you maybe tomorrow and shut my phone off . I had no plans . So yes I faked it but it really was a turning point that he realized I was now my own person . He fired me. He lost access to me then .
Smile as much as you can . You will find your own peace . Really learn to just be nice but short and keep moving .
You can be ok with him not knowing what he wants but what do you want ? Like really want . Every time I felt defeated I went back to this is a marathon not a sprint .
I’m curious... you are left with $120 biweekly.. what is he left with ? Do not let him short change you or your children so he can keep up his lifestyle .
I am in no way telling you to lie but my H had this weird pattern . He would take kids . Spend all day with them and then have family watch them and go out to party . They were safe and never really noticed so I let it go on a bit . I noticed a pattern when he was done Partying he would send me messages in the middle of the nite . Some really hurtful ones , sometimes how he missed me . This would go on as I would respond . I don’t know what got into me (probably read something on here) but one night I wrote back . I have big plans in the morning I will talk to you maybe tomorrow and shut my phone off . I had no plans . So yes I faked it but it really was a turning point that he realized I was now my own person . He fired me. He lost access to me then .
Smile as much as you can . You will find your own peace . Really learn to just be nice but short and keep moving .
You can be ok with him not knowing what he wants but what do you want ? Like really want . Every time I felt defeated I went back to this is a marathon not a sprint .
I’m curious... you are left with $120 biweekly.. what is he left with ? Do not let him short change you or your children so he can keep up his lifestyle .
His going out consists of going to Walmart or the gym, otherwise, he sits at home in the basement. I am being more quiet about what I'm doing - letting him know I'm going out and will be back later (and then just sitting at starbucks ha)
I want my marriage, I want my family. Things have been complacent on both our sides for awhile and I just never had the confidence to make the first move.
He's left with pretty much the same - he will have his truck payment, but I will have the property tax bill, more utilities than him being in an apartment, I am keeping the animals and I told him that we will need to put money into an account for all the girls misc items. Plus what we usually spent in groceries in a month will now be coming from each of us, vs jointly. Daycare will increase with split custody, insurance will go up because we will lose the multi vehicle discount.
I think the friendliness is usually guilt-induced. Like other posters have said, also because he’s not sure of his own feelings. Anyone can be a grown up and be “nice” to people, but that’s not really what matters in this case, right?
Take it at face value, don’t dwell in his niceness. Do what you have to do to detach, grow, and love yourself again. I’m glad to hear that you’re putting yourself first.
I understand all this is 10 times harder when you have young children. Hang in there!
I have to agree with this. Don’t try and read anything into his behaviours and words. I know this is hard to do...I am so guilty of letting my emotions react to the number of kisses on a text message, or the fact he’s done a nice deed for me, or how close he might sit next to me on the sofa. It doesn’t mean anything, especially when interspersed with comments around S/D. You sound like you are doing great at detaching and GAL .
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
You sound like you are doing great at detaching and GAL .
Haha nope - but I'm good at faking it! I smile and head out and try my best to be happy while I'm out, but my heart is breaking on the inside. Then I come home upbeat and happy.
I'm torn, because in reading DR, it talks about looking for the signs that what you're doing is working - he's more engaged with me than he has been in months, so that's a sign. But then he flips the script and talks about S/D. It's almost like when he tells me that he hasn't changed his mind, that he's trying to convince himself of that, not me.
You sound like you are doing great at detaching and GAL .
Haha nope - but I'm good at faking it! I smile and head out and try my best to be happy while I'm out, but my heart is breaking on the inside. Then I come home upbeat and happy.
I'm torn, because in reading DR, it talks about looking for the signs that what you're doing is working - he's more engaged with me than he has been in months, so that's a sign. But then he flips the script and talks about S/D. It's almost like when he tells me that he hasn't changed his mind, that he's trying to convince himself of that, not me.
which is possible. I think he finds you a more safe place now to talk to, etc. So it could be working.
You described what your husband was attracted to in the OW. Yes, my H did the same. She was older than me, frumpier, I have a better body, but she was super confident and active and took control of her life.
So fine, we can do that too. But not for him FOR YOU. For us. Men are attracted in general to confidence, passion (as in being passionate about something in your life), authenticity.
I started with the way I walked. I stopped walking like a sad sack with my eyes on the ground and my shoulders slumped (I don't mean to be hard on myself, my life was freaking hard and I was heartbroken). But I started walking with a confident step, I looked face forward with an open, receptive look on my face, I let my hips move. I started to be back in my body. I tried to stay in the present. As I walked I would focus on things I was happy about. Even the blue sky. It began to ripple in other areas of my life. It had a surprising effect on my husband. He would start to catch my hand. The important thing about detaching is I would think, if he does fine, if he doesn't fine. This is for me. My happiness had to stop being about him. And I did this "walk" whether I was alone or not.
The best thing about this experience CM, is that you have an opportunity to reconnect with yourself. Who are you? What happened to the exciting woman who got lost with kids and the mundanity of life? Find her! I promised to never lose myself again. I began to take long walks/runs in the morning, I found out I like to hike, I started taking way better care of my body. I found out I don't care much about make-up but I like to invest in skincare. Do you know I took a trip to Europe by myself? I would not have done that before.
Focus on you!
I stopped wondering why I wasn't enough and why I wasn't the OW and started telling myself I was awesome and I am a catch. Your brain will believe what you tell it. I told myself my future was mine and it would be happy. It took a while, but I believe it now.
He will either wake up and realize you are a catch, or you will realize you aren't that interested in a guy who isn't faithful when things get hard and goes to walmart and sits in the basement.
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
You sound like you are doing great at detaching and GAL .
Haha nope - but I'm good at faking it! I smile and head out and try my best to be happy while I'm out, but my heart is breaking on the inside. Then I come home upbeat and happy.
I'm torn, because in reading DR, it talks about looking for the signs that what you're doing is working - he's more engaged with me than he has been in months, so that's a sign. But then he flips the script and talks about S/D. It's almost like when he tells me that he hasn't changed his mind, that he's trying to convince himself of that, not me.
Ah yes faking is a good tactic, and as OG says you do start to believe that you are enjoying it. I have gone and sat in wine bars on my own, just so I can come home from work 2 hrs late! And at the same time realised how nice it was to relax on my own, in a bar and get some me time. When he is working away and calls me I pretend I’ve had a great evening even if all I’ve done is stare blankly at the ceiling, feeling numb or torn apart. Keep going!
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Ah yes faking is a good tactic, and as OG says you do start to believe that you are enjoying it. I have gone and sat in wine bars on my own, just so I can come home from work 2 hrs late! And at the same time realised how nice it was to relax on my own, in a bar and get some me time. When he is working away and calls me I pretend I’ve had a great evening even if all I’ve done is stare blankly at the ceiling, feeling numb or torn apart. Keep going!
Honestly, we really do deserve oscars for some of our faking performances!!!
the best apology is changed behavior. *************** me: 45 h: 48 m: 23 T: 26 DD1:19 DD2:16 DS:11 BD1: PA for 2 yrs 08/2016 BD2: OW is one of my closest friends 12/2016 BD3: H wants a D 11/2019
You sound like you are doing great at detaching and GAL .
Haha nope - but I'm good at faking it! I smile and head out and try my best to be happy while I'm out, but my heart is breaking on the inside. Then I come home upbeat and happy.
I'm torn, because in reading DR, it talks about looking for the signs that what you're doing is working - he's more engaged with me than he has been in months, so that's a sign. But then he flips the script and talks about S/D. It's almost like when he tells me that he hasn't changed his mind, that he's trying to convince himself of that, not me.
which is possible. I think he finds you a more safe place now to talk to, etc. So it could be working.
You described what your husband was attracted to in the OW. Yes, my H did the same. She was older than me, frumpier, I have a better body, but she was super confident and active and took control of her life.
So fine, we can do that too. But not for him FOR YOU. For us. Men are attracted in general to confidence, passion (as in being passionate about something in your life), authenticity.
I started with the way I walked. I stopped walking like a sad sack with my eyes on the ground and my shoulders slumped (I don't mean to be hard on myself, my life was freaking hard and I was heartbroken). But I started walking with a confident step, I looked face forward with an open, receptive look on my face, I let my hips move. I started to be back in my body. I tried to stay in the present. As I walked I would focus on things I was happy about. Even the blue sky. It began to ripple in other areas of my life. It had a surprising effect on my husband. He would start to catch my hand. The important thing about detaching is I would think, if he does fine, if he doesn't fine. This is for me. My happiness had to stop being about him. And I did this "walk" whether I was alone or not.
The best thing about this experience CM, is that you have an opportunity to reconnect with yourself. Who are you? What happened to the exciting woman who got lost with kids and the mundanity of life? Find her! I promised to never lose myself again. I began to take long walks/runs in the morning, I found out I like to hike, I started taking way better care of my body. I found out I don't care much about make-up but I like to invest in skincare. Do you know I took a trip to Europe by myself? I would not have done that before.
Focus on you!
I stopped wondering why I wasn't enough and why I wasn't the OW and started telling myself I was awesome and I am a catch. Your brain will believe what you tell it. I told myself my future was mine and it would be happy. It took a while, but I believe it now.
He will either wake up and realize you are a catch, or you will realize you aren't that interested in a guy who isn't faithful when things get hard and goes to walmart and sits in the basement.
You may have mistaken me for someone else My husband had an affair, but it was 7 years ago and she was younger, skinnier but yes, more confident!
I have totally changed the way I walk, and stopped apologizing for everything.
Detaching feels like a full time job - I'm constantly challenging my thoughts and it can be exhausting!
I am taking small steps - going out tonite with friends and tomorrow with friends and kids.
I actually caught him checking me out on Tuesday which was a huge shock and ego boost!
Ah yes faking is a good tactic, and as OG says you do start to believe that you are enjoying it. I have gone and sat in wine bars on my own, just so I can come home from work 2 hrs late! And at the same time realised how nice it was to relax on my own, in a bar and get some me time. When he is working away and calls me I pretend I’ve had a great evening even if all I’ve done is stare blankly at the ceiling, feeling numb or torn apart. Keep going!
Honestly, we really do deserve oscars for some of our faking performances!!!
The key is that eventually it is no longer an act. At first, yes, but then it becomes the new norm. Of course, it doesn't really work until it becomes the new norm. Which is why LBSs need to intestinal fortitude to stick it out until then, and not give up on it while it is still an act.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Yesterday, H had an interview right after work, he said it would be about 90 minutes, so in theory, he should have been home by about 730/8. He didn't get home until 10 pm. Normally I would have texted and asked how it went, or when he was coming home. I didn't. I painted my nails, watched a movie and didn't even pause it when he came home. He initiated a conversation with me, telling me how it went. I didn't ask any follow-up questions and remained detached. Even when he went to bed, and normally I would go at the same time, I finished my movie and then went to bed.
I'm really struggling with the not engaging him in conversation. I know it's persuing, and not detaching, but it feels so cold. On the flip side, he is asking me for a separation which is also cold.
Well done! I bet you feel better today for it! I did the same a couple of weeks ago when H went out for “quick drink” and came home smashed 6 hrs later. It took all of my resolve to refrain from sending sarcastic texts asking where the h3ll he was. When he got in at 1am I asked nicely if he’d had a good night and left it at that. It felt good knowing that I hadn’t picked a fight and had just let him do his thing!
Yes, it does feel hard not engaging in conversation. It takes me back to the lowest point of my marriage 12 months ago where we barely spoke to each other (except to argue). I feel rude sometimes that I’m in the same room but paying more attention to my phone than him (and this has been one of my gripes with him). He did complain the other night that I was ignoring him. I wanted to scream, well you fired me as your wife, what role do you want me to play ! But I kept quiet (didn’t really know if I should validate at that point). Is your H noticing or commenting on the lessened communication?
M:49 H:49 T:20 M:18 D:16 D:14
EA: Feb 2019-May 2020 Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020 H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020 EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020 Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Yesterday, H had an interview right after work, he said it would be about 90 minutes, so in theory, he should have been home by about 730/8. He didn't get home until 10 pm. Normally I would have texted and asked how it went, or when he was coming home. I didn't. I painted my nails, watched a movie and didn't even pause it when he came home. He initiated a conversation with me, telling me how it went. I didn't ask any follow-up questions and remained detached. Even when he went to bed, and normally I would go at the same time, I finished my movie and then went to bed.
I'm really struggling with the not engaging him in conversation. I know it's persuing, and not detaching, but it feels so cold. On the flip side, he is asking me for a separation which is also cold.
Bravo! Ever heard the old saying, how do you swallow an elephant? One bite at a time! Detachment is an elephant, you have to recognize the baby-steps! Well done.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Well done! I bet you feel better today for it! I did the same a couple of weeks ago when H went out for “quick drink” and came home smashed 6 hrs later. It took all of my resolve to refrain from sending sarcastic texts asking where the h3ll he was. When he got in at 1am I asked nicely if he’d had a good night and left it at that. It felt good knowing that I hadn’t picked a fight and had just let him do his thing!
Yes, it does feel hard not engaging in conversation. It takes me back to the lowest point of my marriage 12 months ago where we barely spoke to each other (except to argue). I feel rude sometimes that I’m in the same room but paying more attention to my phone than him (and this has been one of my gripes with him). He did complain the other night that I was ignoring him. I wanted to scream, well you fired me as your wife, what role do you want me to play ! But I kept quiet (didn’t really know if I should validate at that point). Is your H noticing or commenting on the lessened communication?
I think he's noticing because when I went to bed, the decorative pillows were still on my side. Although that could also be me projecting because he was beyond exhausted when he went to bed and even commented this morning that he didn't remember if I went to bed the same time as him or not.
I notice that he initiates conversation more (pursuing?) and is sending me more random things through texts, telling me about his day without me asking, calling me for the smallest reason that could be a text etc
That is the hard part - I feel like I'm fired, but being told I'm an important employee. It's so hard.
Bravo! Ever heard the old saying, how do you swallow an elephant? One bite at a time! Detachment is an elephant, you have to recognize the baby-steps! Well done.
Thank you!! I'm really trying. I really want to get through this and use all that I've learned/am learning about being in a successful relationship to make our marriage what I believe it can be.
I posted this in my MLC thread last night but wanted to share here as well, for those of you that have been helping me.
"I think I'm confusing the heck out of my H. He was taking the kids for supper then to swimming. At the last minute, he (surprisingly) invited me to join them for dinner. I declined, ate by myself at home and went to my volunteer hour. After I told him I was going out (no details) but unbeknownst to him, none of my friends were available. I was going to go get a drink by myself, but I'm just not that brave/strong yet, so I went for a coffee by myself. After that, I went to Walmart and came home - 2 hours later than usual. He actually came upstairs to say hi and talk to me - he hasn't done that in 6 months! hahaha, I'm not thinking by a long shot, that we are out of the woods, or that he's changed his mind, but maybe, just maybe I've got him thinking and I'm ok with that."
He actually called me tonight to let me know he'd be late vs just texting and told me to have fun with the kids tonight. He also said he was looking at a 2nd job to help pay things down (vs saying to move out). Still not thinking we're good, but maybe he really is thinking. I have to keep positive thoughts in my head or I will collapse. So many friends telling me how amazingly strong I am.... 'I'd like to thank the academy......'
Ok, I need guidance. H was distant and stressed this past weekend - I GAL and detached. This morning he panicked over something small with our kids, I calmly helped him through it and moved on. (Go me, I didn't take his mood personally!!) He actually emailed me and apologized. I don't know how to respond. I feel like I'm making progress with him and don't want to ruin it.
Well I feel stupid. I was feeling good and optimistic after his email (I didnt respond or acknowledge it). I did well after work, we had supper, he took the kids to swimming and then my mom was taking them overnight. I was initially waiting for him to come home like always, but instead went for a bath. When he came in, I forced myself to stay in there longer. I went down after to feed the cat and he told me he was mad and that one of my friends told the wife of one of his coworkers/friends that we were separating and that he didnt want anyone at his work to know.
I remained calm and apologized that my friend told someone else. He reiterated that he didnt want work knowing and that he wasnt even planning on telling his counselor tomorrow.
I didnt apologize for telling my friend or try to explain or justify myself.
I did leave the house though. I needed to break down and wouldn't do it there. I knew something was coming because every time the girls sleep out, he reminds me that he still wants out.
I know not to believe what he says and half of what he does, but him saying he wasnt telling his counselor made me feel like I wasnt even worth mentioning Like our almost 2 decades isn't even a blip on his radar.
I keep telling myself that this is a long process, but my mind still dreams of him walking in the door and telling me he loves me. I dont know if I'm strong enough
Thanks for checking in on me. Things have been crazy with work and then all this quarantine business hit and things have been even crazier.
It all came to a head yesterday when he told me he found a place and asked again "You didn't think I changed my mind do you?" like he asks every month. He's able to do sweat equity in order to forgo first and last month's rent and asked to stay here until that happens. I told him I don't know. After thinking about it though, it will give me a bit more time to save up a better nest egg for when he's gone so hopefully I don't have to sell the house.
I think he feels guilty because this morning he offered to make me breakfast, cleared off my car, asked if I needed anything from the store etc
Good.
We still haven't told the kids. I still keep wanting to wake up from this. I didn't actually think he would get a place.
Obviously it's been impossible to get out and have a life, but I've been spending more time doing my hobbies in the house and taking time for me. His laundry is all piled up because I haven't done it in months.
I’m sorry you are here, dealing with this These kinds of mixed messages are insanely confusing and they can REALLY mess with your head. I know from LOTS of experience that reading into them and trying to decipher their meaning only makes it worse. Waaaay easier said than done, but the more you can just notice them and not assign meaning, the easier it will be on you. The way I get through them at this point is to tell myself in my mind “this means nothing”. Because honestly, as far as the LBS is concerned, it usually does mean nothing. That’s not to say that there is no reason he is doing what he’s doing, just that unless it comes with him telling and showing you he wants to reconcile, it’s immaterial.
I do so much self-talk that sometimes I feel like I'm going crazy! I keep reminding myself to only worry about today, and believe nothing he says and half of what he does. He was listening to break up songs in the kitchen last night about not wanting to break up. I kept telling myself that I have been getting mixed messages for months. He knows that I want to work on out marriage so if he he wants to, he just has to talk to me. This is seriously so difficult right now, but I'm trying to take it one day at a time. If I think too far down the road, I will lose it.
I'm trying really hard to project the happy carefree person - I do my hair and my makeup every day despite not leaving the house. I smile and use a calm voice.
I'm struggling with the whole distant but happy part. Do I initiate conversations? How do I respond when he's joking around and being flirty?
I also need help with the 180. I don't argue my opinion on things that don't matter (which I used to defend my position no matter what), I sit in the evenings (by myself) and do my own thing instead of constantly cleaning (easier since I'm home all day now) But his biggest issue with me was that I didn't initiate intimacy. Certainly can't do that now, do I just leave that one alone?
I also need advice - he has found a place and can work on it in lieu of first and last months rent in order to make it affordable. He wants to stay here while he does that. It would help me financially and give me more time to save up. We would split the finances and take him off the now joint account. I told him I needed to think about it. I have and it makes the most sense to do it that way. So do I wait for him to bring it up? Do I tell him? Can I do it in email?
I wouldn't initiate many conversations unless something funny or strange happens right in front of you and you crack a joke for example.
Leave the intimacy alone, but be subtly seductive IMO. You want him to want you, but you can't cave too soon just because he wants a little hanky panky either.
He wants you to move to a new place with him? Is that what you mean?
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
He has switched his paycheque to his own account now and left me his card (which I cut up) and I've changed the online banking password. This keeps getting more and more real and I am sick to my stomach and destroyed. But I am home all day, every day with my girls and still need to work from home and take care of them.
I just want to wake up from this horrible dream.
I keep reminding myself that it isn't over until I decide I'm done. This is not a sprint but a marathon. I am strong. I am capable.
I don't know what is up with him, but he seems really upset. Came home from work yesterday and just buried his head in the pillows - seems down and depressed.
I'm really trying not to examine his behaviour and not to try to guess at what it means. He's avoiding me today which is new and still seems sad.
I did my hair and my makeup and am keeping my head high. I'm enjoying my kids and getting work done.
So he's gone out yesterday and today. I don't ask where only if I can expect him for supper.
My mind is racing with where he could be going, trying to find clues in what he says and wears. I know I shouldn't and I try to stop my mind, but it's so hard.
I think he's going to do work on his new place. It really amps my anxiety that he does not really worry about social distancing or using hand sanitizer and is still going out, but I keep quiet.
I'm reaching out to my family doc next week to see about anxiety medication. I need help dealing with this and can't handle it on my own.
I'm trying hard to keep up a happy front but it is getting harder as his leaving becomes more real.
I'm so conflicted (what else is new right?) We had a good evening as a family yesterday including wrestling around (the kidlets love it) and H kept pinning me and being hands on (in a fun playful way) Then today he pulled a prank on me, so I threatened (in jest) payback. I did, one thing led to another and he initiated intimate time. Now I'm back to being normal - acting happy but distant, not reaching out to touch or thinking everything is peachy. He thanked me for cleaning after dinner, for the first time in I don't know how many months. He also has not reached out in even a casual touch. I've never been one for casual encounters, so I don't even have that to fall back on to know how to act. I realize I probably shouldn't have done it, but one of his chief complaints about me was that I never wanted to, and well, to be honest, I really wanted to. How bad did I mess up? Set myself back?
He actually watched TV with me last night which is odd -it's probably been at least 6 months.
He's flirty and playful with me but still went out today for a couple of hours without saying a word about where he's going. (I don't ask, but it's killing me)
He's bringing me treats and making meals, but then will isolate himself within the house and be all closed off.
I don't know how to act. I'm so confused and scared of doing the wrong thing. I know not to bring up marriage talk, I know not to pursue, but I'm also supposed to 180 and one of his complaints was that I never initiated physical affection. Am I supposed to do casual touches now? Or is that pursuing? I really need the advice of a veteran here.
I don't know how to act. I'm so confused and scared of doing the wrong thing. I know not to bring up marriage talk, I know not to pursue, but I'm also supposed to 180 and one of his complaints was that I never initiated physical affection. Am I supposed to do casual touches now? Or is that pursuing? I really need the advice of a veteran here.
If you are confused, it means your H has not fully come around yet. vets often say, if the WAS is ready to come back, you will know. If they're not, you will be confused.
It sounds like you still need to work on your detachment. Let go of the fear of doing the wrong thing. This is not the time to initiate physical affection because he already wants out. I think doing 180 is more about other things you can work on yourself.....such as if you felt like you haven't done anything for yourself and was codependent in the M, do a 180 on that!!
I totally understand that we are not at piecing, and he is not fully come around. I see this as maybe he is checking his blind spot to possibly turn around. I am trying very hard not to read anything into any gesture, word, text etc or I will drive myself nuts. I do still do it, but I am getting better.
I totally need to work on detachment and it is a lot of self talk every day trying to improve that. I've even gone back to my co-dependent no more book.
I am still not taking care of him - I don't do his laundry, make his lunches, remind him of things etc. It's hard because at times where he's looking for something, and if I find it and hand it to him, I question myself - was that taking care of him or just being a decent human?
I'm enjoying taking my time in the evenings now to do my crafts, watch my shows or just chat with friends vs cleaning and planning etc for the household. I close the curtains, so I don't watch out the window for him to come home from his drives.
The fear of doing the wrong thing is so deeply embedded. Pre-corona, I was working on that with my counsellor. It was interesting, yesterday I forgot to push the thingy in for the shower so when he went to get the kids' bath ready it sprayed on him. Usually, I would be horrified and apologetic and feel awful and get him a towel etc. Yesterday I just burst out laughing and he did the same (and then it started a bit of a water splashing game that the kids thought was hilarious! )
How I react to things can have such an impact - but letting go of my need for perfection and feeling like I need to be the perfect wife and mother all the time, as made things more enjoyable. When he comes home from work and is grumpy, I no longer try to analyze if I said/did something wrong. I tell myself he had a bad day and I am pleasant and don't acknowledge it. I am not responsible for his moods/feelings and that is so very freeing to know.
I've re-read the post on detachment and am trying to implement it! I also re-read the post on the dance of the pursuer and the distancer. Right now it's a bit strange - I used to pursue emotionally but distance physically. He would pursue physically and distance emotionally.
He's initiating more conversations with me, bringing up happy times in the past and is acting flirty about 75% of the time and stand-offish the other 25%.
I noticed yesterday that I'm actually walking around the house now with good posture and my head up, instead of looking down and trying to make myself small and unnoticeable.
We were talking with the kids yesterday and I contradicted him on something small, realized it and let it go. I didn't keep pushing my point or ague it, because I would rather be happy than right. Afterwards, I approached him and apologized for it. (Neither things I would have done before)
We actually laid in bed and talked last night about random things like we used to instead of him just turning his back on me.
I know the possibility of him moving out is still there, but I'd like to hope that if/when he does, maybe we'll use that time to date each other and rekindle, instead of destroying what we have.
Cest_Moi, I just read your whole thread and I feel like I could've written so many of your posts myself!! My H has also struggled with depression and we are in what I think he feels is an in house separation, with my H making comments about moving out. We are doing the same dance as you are with my H being cold and hot, sometimes affectionate and other times withdrawing. And my H's love language is also physical and one of his complaints was that we were never on the same wavelength in terms of frequency. I've wrestled too with wondering if I should try to initiate intimacy, but have received guidance that he likely is only using me for satisfaction.
I don't feel like I'm wise enough to dispense advice but just wanted to let you know I'm in the trenches with you. My H also will tell me he's running an errand and be gone for hours (which is awfully strange at the time since I'm in a state where bars, restaurants, etc are shut down...) and I struggle so much not asking what he's doing. In the past, we've always been transparent with each other so it's tough for me. I'm working on feeling more confident about myself and sometimes it means faking it til I make it. I also find that if I come and go to the house and don't tell him everything I'm doing, it piques his curiosity..
Rosy, I'm sorry you're going through this too! I completely fake it until I make it!!
I've decided to journal the changes that I want to/am making - I started thinking about them in my head and realized that there are a lot of little changes I've made that I can be proud of that I haven't even thought about
H is opening up more to me. He mentioned going to a store tonight (which normally he'd just say "I'm going out after"). Then when he was heading out he said how he was going to x store and then for a drive (which I know is his thinking time). We ended up having a conversation about the kids (my eldest is struggling with all this) and how we parent different and it was really good. I talked about how I'm realizing that the kids can't be my everything and that I can't pour from an empty cup. It was a calm and really good conversation.
It hurts a bit because I wish I had these skills and this mindset pre-BD cause I could envision having the conversation cuddled on the couch or hugging after. Whereas me before would be off to do the cleaning or ensuring that everything was right, or didn't want to snuggle because I hadn't washed my hair or shaved my legs and cuddling might lead to something else and I wouldn't be 'perfect'.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Now that we are where we are, I see so many times I missed the chance for physical affection because of my own issues. Now I just hope I have the chance to one day show him what I've learned.
Not much as changed in the last month. He's still hot and cold with me, but hasn't been going out in the evenings, so I'm not sure if he's not moving out now or what.
I'm not supposed to ask right?
He's out of town during the week for two weeks now, so it's been different adapting to just me and the kids, but I've been making it work.
I'm really hating living in limbo, but I keep doing my thing, taking care of me (and the kids) and not worrying about him or what he's doing/going.
I don't know if I'm doing the right thing by not asking questions about the future. I keep reminding myself everyday that he's leaving, but it's been a month and a half since he said he found a place and has made no movement towards moving out.
Not much as changed in the last month. He's still hot and cold with me, but hasn't been going out in the evenings, so I'm not sure if he's not moving out now or what.
I'm not supposed to ask right?
He's out of town during the week for two weeks now, so it's been different adapting to just me and the kids, but I've been making it work.
I'm really hating living in limbo, but I keep doing my thing, taking care of me (and the kids) and not worrying about him or what he's doing/going.
I don't know if I'm doing the right thing by not asking questions about the future. I keep reminding myself everyday that he's leaving, but it's been a month and a half since he said he found a place and has made no movement towards moving out.
Its got to be rough... hanging in a stagnant state like that.
All I can offer is keep doing what you are doing. He hasn't left yet. That has to say something. Continue to not apply pressure. But, continue to look like you are living your own life independent of him. Start working on that mystery of who you are and what you are up too.
Thank you! It really is! It has been like this since the BD in the beginning of January, although he has slowly warmed up to me and started communicating more.
I may be smiling and laughing when reading texts (even if they are just funny memes). I've stopped worrying that anything I do or say can push him either way. I'm just me -take it or leave it (literally I guess....)
Cest_Moi, your feeling on "I don't know what to do. I want the marriage, but I also don't feel like I deserve to be strung along like this." is completely legitimate and common too. Some of the best advice I got in my sitch was to set a date. If my W wasn't committed back to the marriage by that date then I would go file for D myself.
The suggestion was one year post BD. Since my BD was 12/23, I picked the first business day after, which that year I believe was 1/3/2019. I cannot tell you how scary and yet freeing that was. Scary because when I set it there was a real possibility that I would be filing for D on that date. Freeing because it gave me something to look forward to. It gave me a sense of control in an uncontrollable situation. And it felt good to know that, by my own choice, limbo was not going to last forever!
As far as what he told you on April 4th. There is a reason we say believe nothing they say,and only half of what hey do. WAS are notorious for grand pronouncements. "I have a place!" Likely he had place identified, and to keep you off kilter he made it sound like it was secured. When he is moving out, then you can believe him.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Cest_Moi, your feeling on "I don't know what to do. I want the marriage, but I also don't feel like I deserve to be strung along like this." is completely legitimate and common too. Some of the best advice I got in my sitch was to set a date. If my W wasn't committed back to the marriage by that date then I would go file for D myself.
The suggestion was one year post BD.
That's a great idea! Looks like my poop or get off the pot date is going to be Jan 5th.
I pissed him off today. We have separated the finances, for the most part, each have our own accounts and he would send me money for half the groceries, half the mortgage, half our loan and half the insurance. Mortgage and loan are not an issue - he sends it every payday. Groceries I usually remind him on payday of what his half is, insurance when it comes out. Two weeks ago he was talking about having money tied up from work travel and I said that I could hold off on the groceries so he wasn't short. He said he was still good, but didn't offer anything. So this payday, I reminded him of the groceries from the last month, plus the insurance. I offered to deduct money he spent on our kids and household stuff, I just didn't know how much he had spent.
He got extremely pissed off at me over email about it and how he won't take that off cause he's not nickle and diming me and doesn't keep track of everything he spends.
This got me pissed off because those are the only things he pays for the house. I take care of the other bills (I know I shouldn't but it's helped me see that I can do this on my own and will be ok). I buy all the kids clothes, shoes etc. I don't count every penny.
So now what was a peaceful environment is now the silent treatment from him. I'm actually anxious to go grocery shopping this weekend.
C'est. the other thing the setting a date did for me was gave me something to look forward too. Limbo stinks. There is no question about it. When a WAS/WS has a LBS twisting in the wind, the minutes feel like hours, hours, like days, days like weeks. Once I set a date, I knew there was an end date to my limbo. That one way or another I would be moving forward and not be stuck. It was one of the best things I did in my sitch.
And I actually started looking forward to it! If she didn't reommit to the MR and help me create MR 2.0 with her, I was going to be free. It actually was exciting. It took a lot of the dread out of the impending end of my marriage.
The other thing I did that was really freeing was to get a consult with a lawyer. Once all of the unknowns started to become knowns I started to feel empowered in my sitch.
I honestly think the changes these two actions endeared in me, where I really started to let go, was sensed by my WW and started to make her question what she was doing and losing. One reason it worked was because I was genuinely starting to move on. Not faking it to engender a change in her, but I actually started looking forward to a new life on my own, what that looked like, and the possibilities that opened up for me.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
This has been a hard month for me. We had to put our pet down this week, that we got together when we first moved in together, almost 20 years ago. I loved that little guy and it broke my heart. He has been off and on this past month - which I know to expect, but it's really starting to take a toll on me. Usually we'd be camping together, doing things as a family etc. This summer, there's none of that, no camps for the kids to give me a break. I am home all day with the kids, he comes home, hangs in the living room with the kids, but not interacting, just on his phone. Comes up, eats the supper I make, chills for 20 minutes and then goes back to hide in the living room all night or goes out.
Some weeks he tells me when he's going and where, asks if I need anything, etc. Buys me the special treat that I told him before to stop buying because to me, it's his way of saying I love you (Which he did stop for awhile, but then started again)
Other weeks, like tonight, he just tells the kids to hurry up and brush their teeth cause he's going out. Then tells me he'll be back later and leaves.
I try not to obsess and I was doing so well for awhile. But now? For some reason I'm really struggling. I check to see if he has his work stuff to try to determine where he's going and what he's doing. I analyze what he's wearing etc.
I need to figure out how to stop this. I try to tell myself to stop but it's about effective as telling the rain to stop. I know part of it is that I'm mad cause I want to go out. But the only way to get out of the house first is to literally run out the door before he says something, which he usually does as soon as he gets in the door.
How can I stop obsessing and worrying and over analyzing and wondering?
This stuff is hard. I would lie if I didn't say I didn't obsess for much of my sitch. I can remember going to work and all I did was try to find her online presences. Whether it was Facebook, or dating sites or the online singing app she was spending so much time on. And then when I found them, tracking her activity on them. It was exhausting. And on top of it I was sleeping terribly. So I was mentally exhausted. Physically exhausted. Emotionally exhausted. Yet still obsessed with it.
It wasn't until I got myself to a place where I just didn't care anymore. I didn't care what she was doing online and on apps. I got to a point where I could lay my head down at night not only not caring what she did but excited for my future when I had this person that was taking up so much of my headspace as peripheral to my life.
Here is the thing....he can feel your obsession. He can feel you worrying and analyzing and wondering. And that gives him a sense of power over you. And it gives him a sense of security.....knowing his safety net is securely in place.
So how do you start to remove yourself as that safety net? Because I can tell you, that as long as he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and still come home to you as his safety net, he will continue to do what he is doing.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So how do you start to remove yourself as that safety net? Because I can tell you, that as long as he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants and still come home to you as his safety net, he will continue to do what he is doing.
I have to admit, I'm still struggling with this a bit. But I do notice that the more I manage to have an I don't care attitude with him, the more he keeps reaching out to me. He hasn't said anything more about moving out still. He asked if my mom could take the kids one weekend because he got invited out to his buddy's camp. I actually got excited for 30 seconds until he continued that he knows I will probably be getting stuff ready for school that weekend. (I work in the schools) I felt so stupid.
I notice that he makes little digs at me and I used to laugh or dish it back. Now I just look at him straight faced and repeat what he said. It's no wonder my self-esteem is shot.
I'm mad that I'm the only one changing and improving myself, so I've started a list in my journal about what *I* want in a relationship and what that looks like to me. I'm spending more of my evenings doing what I want within the house instead of cleaning. I'm apologizing less for basically existing. I'm posting more selfies. I'm making meals that I feel like cooking/eating vs what he wasnts/expects He told me to go out the other day for some peace and quiet. Typically I would rush back. I took my time and even got myself a coffee. I have my good days and my bad days. I'm really leaning on my friends a lot.
C'est, I am seeing some good signs here. I am seeing an awakening in you that you deserve more than he is giving you right now. And you are 100% right, you do. No matter what your past mistakes were, you certainly deserve a H who is leaning into the MR, matching your effort and energy, instead of leaning out.
I have to say, the little digs trouble me. As a former "little digger" of my W, that is behavior that is indicative of a selfish, angry, resentful person. When my W started to categorize it as verbal abuse it really opened my eyes (as well as the fact that she wanted a D and wanted to find someone new). Please stand up for yourself. I like the tactic of: "I refuse to be spoken down to like that." calmly and firmly, and then walking away.
You mentioned the IDC attitude and the effect it has on him. Go read the pursuit-distance thread. It is a real psychological phenomenon most of us experienced through our sitch. WASs are like cats. Go for them and they will run from you. Sit still and act like you don't care if they jump up on you or not, and they will usually jump on up.
Keep up your list! Also, are you in IC? Self-esteem being affected by other people is something you need to work through. You should know your own worth, regardless of what he says or does.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Non-update, update. Back to school time is a crazy time in my house, this year more than most, so I haven't had much downtime to get on.
I am still living in limbo. I am still not pursuing and acting like I'm just living my life for me and my kids. I did get off track a bit with doing things for me, but I am getting back on track! It's just a matter of finding that balance again.
We got into one argument about a month ago, and I kept my cool and didn't get taken in by his usual tactics and I think it threw him off. He tried his usual one-upmanship techniques and I didn't bow down to them. He said to me that he knew I hadn't really changed (Which to me, says that I have and that he's noticed. Cool. Doing it for me, not you buddy) Then he realized the mistake that caused the fight was actually his. He also threw in that the apt from the first quarter of the year was still available to him.
Christmas was brought up today and I broached gifts because he wanted to buy the kids the gift they want the most (When I'm the one that sleuthed it out) He said they'd be from both of us and why wouldn't we. I said I didn't know if he'd be here. He said that if he was or wasn't he'd hoped he could still be here for xmas. (Not sure how I feel about that). He said it was a conversation for another time. So I suggested later this week when the kids aren't home and he agreed.
I was cool as a cucumber on the outside, but my fitness tracker says my heartrate was 105. I'm scared now. I don't know how to handle the conversation. I don't want to pursue, but I am interested in making the relationship work. I need help. I need advice. I need guidance. I don't want to mess up the progress I've made and the person I'm becoming. I want to stay strong. I need chapters to read or mantras or anything really. I know I haven't been here lately, but I'm still hoping someone can help.
Hi C’est! I am not sure if we have ‘met’ before, but I have read your thread in the past. I don’t have your full story in my mind, but I do have some thoughts about your Christmas conversation. Firstly, Christmas is still a long ways away in terms of DB and R status. So anything you decide now can change. With that in mind, can you go along with the joint gift and make the assumption H will be around? Act ‘as-if’ for the moment.
And then if things change, you can pivot in the future as needed.
Don’t let Christmas be a deal-breaker or an opportunity to set an ultimatum or start a R talk. So much can change in two months’ time, so let this be just another conversation, nothing abnormal.
My husband had an affair, but it was 7 years ago and she was younger, skinnier but yes, more confident!