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True detachment is the hardest thing ever. I can fake the hell out of it. There are days, and more in a row every week, where I really am detached. But really getting my head and heart out of his wake has been a struggle. KristinG pretty much told me the same thing because I've been struggling with it. I deactivated my facebook since I couldn't even stop myself when I took him out of my feed. I've talked to him about paying for his own phone since I'm not really feeling like bank rolling his way of communicating to his OW. I know logically and in my gut where he's going and what he's doing when he does it. But it's so much easier to say eff it. You do you I'm going to do me when I don't have to look the evidence in the eye so to speak. And my worst days are the day after I see the old H peeking out. Because I know it's just a fallacy right now.

But to your point of why should you put up with this and accept it; is what my H (and your H) doing abso-effing-lutely pathetic and soooo disrespectful? Hell yes. Before DBing I told him exactly how I felt about that. He got the tears, and begging at first and then a WHOLE lot of anger. He knows he's being a terrible person. He just doesn't care. So there's no point in arguing. There's no point at all in drawing a line in the sand. I've tried and I learned. He'll run right through it while making eye contact with me and then lie about it. But I've only been at this a couple of months. I found out about the affair in November. He BD'd in December. You've been at this a long time. You have every right to throw in the towel, but I agree with the lot of the other posters. You have to do that from a place of peace. You need to be in the head space of ambivalence first, then you know your choice is a choice from a place of logic not emotion. When you're really done, you know. I know this from my daughter's father not my current H. It was like "oh, ok. well we're done then." No anger. No sadness. Just ok, we're done. I'm done. This is done. You having your heart and emotions so rocked by him means you're not there. You're not done. So you gotta keep DBing and working on really detaching. We got this.

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Hi Pommy,

Wow, I just still see soooooo many similarities between our two sitches. I have so much empathy for you!

A couple of months ago (when I still thought it was just an EA, not a PA) I did the exact same thing you just did-- entered into an R talk out of anger, brought up the kids and how much this will hurt them, etc. My H probably responded exactly the same as yours. A vet here told me don't worry about it, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and carry on with doing what you need to do. Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see... there just is no point in asking about what he's doing with OW because, as you said, there is no way to know what is a lie and what is the truth. So why bother getting yourself into the discussion?

Another thing a vet told me is that everything my H is saying is following the exact same WS script. ILYB, the romantic feelings just aren't there, they can never come back, I deserve to be happy, the kids will be fine, we can stay friends after we D... blah blah blah. That helped me to realize this is a thing HE is going through and really has very little to do with me. Maybe that helps you too? You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. Feelings can change-- you know this and obviously they can because he was madly in love with you once-- but right now he doesn't feel those feelings towards you, and can't as long as he has his thoughts occupied by OW.

Hang in there. Just like the wise vet (sorry I can't remember who it was!) told me-- don't waste time worrying about it. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and carry on with doing what you need to do-- detaching, 180s, GAL, validating, and avoiding R talks.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Originally Posted by may22
Hi Pommy,

Wow, I just still see soooooo many similarities between our two sitches. I have so much empathy for you!

A couple of months ago (when I still thought it was just an EA, not a PA) I did the exact same thing you just did-- entered into an R talk out of anger, brought up the kids and how much this will hurt them, etc. My H probably responded exactly the same as yours. A vet here told me don't worry about it, pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and carry on with doing what you need to do. Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see... there just is no point in asking about what he's doing with OW because, as you said, there is no way to know what is a lie and what is the truth. So why bother getting yourself into the discussion?

Another thing a vet told me is that everything my H is saying is following the exact same WS script. ILYB, the romantic feelings just aren't there, they can never come back, I deserve to be happy, the kids will be fine, we can stay friends after we D... blah blah blah. That helped me to realize this is a thing HE is going through and really has very little to do with me. Maybe that helps you too? You didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. Feelings can change-- you know this and obviously they can because he was madly in love with you once-- but right now he doesn't feel those feelings towards you, and can't as long as he has his thoughts occupied by OW.

Hang in there. Just like the wise vet (sorry I can't remember who it was!) told me-- don't waste time worrying about it. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and carry on with doing what you need to do-- detaching, 180s, GAL, validating, and avoiding R talks.

Hi May, I’m getting increasingly p1$$ed off with his behaviour. I know I can’t fix him and just need to fix myself. But after Thursday night’s decision to leave, yesterday he was back with the full-on biggest, longest hugs, stroking my hair, kissing my head etc. I need that so much but I have learnt that it doesn’t mean he suddenly wants me. Last night I was getting ready to go out and he said “that’s nice underwear, have I seen that before?” .Wtf, he’s not interested in me in my underwear so why comment?

As for the OW, he’s in a group chat with her and she’s arranged a night out next week while he’s in the city which he’s accepted. (Yes I checked his phone after he handed it to me to look at something so I had a sneaky look at his msg.) I’ll just be right home looking after his children while he’s out with her!

I feel it would be easier if he moved out because I am struggling with paranoia about her and I’m struggling to not get into arguments about her, which I know isn’t helping me. I know I need to rein in my reactions and just keep my mouth shut!

May, remind me again why your H doesn’t want to leave? Is he like mine - doesn’t know what he wants, even though he talks about leaving all the time? X


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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So H has come back from his 2nd IC appt and announced he wants to separate (he came back from the first one and announced he wanted to fix his marriage. I knew that wasn’t sitting comfortably with him and in the 2 weeks since the last appt nothing has changed, in fact he’s been more distant and erratic with his emotions).

I listened to him talk about what he felt, what was discussed in the session, validated when I could but otherwise kept very quiet. I then had a little cry then composed myself and said it wasn’t what I wanted but wouldn’t stand in his way. So then he said when I talk like that it makes him feel guilty and doubt everything again. However , it is still very much the case that he sees no future for us as he is looking for romantic love, etc. From what he described about his IC appt, the therapist suggests that when he married me he was looking for a companion, a ‘safe’ bet, someone who would be a good mother, and now his needs have changed. So this ties in with his belief that we’ve never had a good sexual connection. So I feel pretty low that all I have been for the last 15 yrs is a mother to his kids and nothing more, and now he wants to find a woman with whom he can have passion as he no longer needs to factor in the child/mother part.

I’m 50/50 on whether to let this go or whether to fight. I don’t see how we can reignite a passion that he doesn’t think was ever there. He again has said he’s worried that he will never find that level of friendship that he has with me, that the grass isn’t greener etc. I just had to ponder and say well the grass might be a different shade of green...or it might be brown. I said whatever happens we will both be ok, everyone comes out the other side.

I just don’t know whether to try and accept this or to keep battling on...11 months we’ve been in this limbo


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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Assuming I do want to continue in a marriage, do I change what I have been doing ? Or is if business as usual? (Detach, validate etc)?

He says he will look for somewhere to live? Do I help him with that and be supportive, or do I refuse to support on the basis I don’t believe it is right?


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
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Hi Pommy,

Here's a big HUG. I am so sorry you are going through this. It is awful and unfair and BS. Here are a few thoughts for you:

-- His IC sounds like an idiot. Just saying.

-- Your H is very, very confused. He's grabbing onto straws. Last week he wants to work on the M, this week he wants to S. Don't let yourself get drawn into the maelstrom in his head.

-- What do you mean by "supporting" your H in looking for somewhere to live? I think I've read here over and over that vets recommend saying something along the lines of "this isn't what I want, but I'm not going to stop you" etc. (Sounds like that is exactly what you did. Kudos!!) You can simply validate what he thinks at this exact moment he wants (moving out) and then move on with whatever you were going to be doing anyway. You don't need to lift a finger to actually help him find a place, unless you decide that is what YOU want.

-- You are so much more than just a mother to his kids... write all those things down. What makes Pommy the amazing, special person you are? Do NOT get sucked into his redefinition of your lives together. it is total BS and from reading on these boards something every WS does. It helps them to justify their own behaviors-- the M was always doomed, we never really connected, I can never feel like this again with my spouse, my situation is unique and different because this is true love, blah blah blah. For me, it really helped to understand that all this is a basic script all these WSs follow.

-- I recommend not talking about her at all. BluWave said to me and I repeat it in my head like a mantra-- she is NOTHING to me. I am the wife, I am the mother of these amazing children, and this is MY family. I am the queen of my castle. Always. (If you want I will find in my thread and repost. I have it saved on my phone to walk through when I need it.)

Originally Posted by Pommy99
I feel it would be easier if he moved out because I am struggling with paranoia about her and I’m struggling to not get into arguments about her, which I know isn’t helping me. I know I need to rein in my reactions and just keep my mouth shut!

May, remind me again why your H doesn’t want to leave? Is he like mine - doesn’t know what he wants, even though he talks about leaving all the time? X

He is scared of all that a S/D would entail-- hurting the kids as his primary fear. His recent convo with my MIL has I think also made real a lot more potential fears he was dismissing-- financial, shame and disappointment among friends and family, a lot more around hurting me and the kids, etc. He has been saying since he gave me the final BD a couple of weeks ago (confessing to the 2 year PA instead of a much shorter EA) us to come to a decision "together" and I think in his mind all along once we got to this position I would be the one to tell him to go (but also somehow in the end would be happy for him and we'd still be best friends? Just another example of the fantastical storm of what is happening inside his head). Last night he said his two biggest fears are that I won't really be able to forgive him and that he won't ever really get over AP.

My DB coach said the grass is greener where you water it.

I 100% understand that it would be so, so much easier if he was gone to stop struggling with the paranoia and deal with this whiplash of a H. (Yours totally sounds like that-- one day checking out your underwear and the next day he married a mother figure? Give me a break.) I have been spending this time trying to get more and more OK with the idea that it is really over, he will move out, how can I protect myself and my children through that process? I do feel like I'm starting to detach more and more. Can you work on that? The good thing about being detached is that then it doesn't matter if he is in your house or not-- his behavior, mood swings, new announcements, text threads, etc don't affect YOU. You do you and let his craziness stay outside of your bubble.

Hang in there. I know exactly how awful this all is. I'm there too if it helps. Hugs.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Most IC's are just there to listen and validate. Your H came out of the first session wanting to work on the M, and the 2nd wanting a divorce. That's not a reflection on the IC, it's his scrambled mind. He's confused and in turmoil. The IC probably just validates whether crazy stuff is coming out of his mouth. LBS's often think that if the WAS gets in IC then they will "talk some sense" into them and save the M. It never, ever happens. They listen. They validate. They tell the client/ patient what they want to hear. They collect their money. That's it.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by may22
.

-- Your H is very, very confused. He's grabbing onto straws. Last week he wants to work on the M, this week he wants to S. Don't let yourself get drawn into the maelstrom in his head.

I’m learning that he’s all over the place. I’ve had everything in the last two weeks from fixing marriage to divorce, to loving EAP to not loving EAP; offering transparency to concealing correspondence. Within an hour of him being home today, he was already expressing his uncertainty about separation.

Quote

-- You are so much more than just a mother to his kids... write all those things down. What makes Pommy the amazing, special person you are? Do NOT get sucked into his redefinition of your lives together. it is total BS and from reading on these boards something every WS does. It helps them to justify their own behaviors-- the M was always doomed, we never really connected, I can never feel like this again with my spouse, my situation is unique and different because this is true love, blah blah blah. For me, it really helped to understand that all this is a basic script all these WSs follow.

I feel like - and have for many years- that I was never enough for him, like he always wanted more. Well fact is, he chose me, he pursued me for a year, he told his mum he’d met the girl he was going to marry, but it took him a year to get me on a date after he’d told his mum about me. He says life with me was exciting - adventurous - I opened his eyes to travel, we lived overseas for a couple of years, and lived the dream. Then we had kids...you probably know the rest. So I don’t completely buy into this theory that we never connected...but we did neglect our marriage, putting kids and work first, that’s for sure. Today he’s told me he’s always felt like he was my protector, he never felt like that with other GFs. I asked if that was a good thing and he said yes, of course, a man always wants to protect his partner, and that what is making it so hard for him to walk away.

Quote

-- I recommend not talking about her at all. BluWave said to me and I repeat it in my head like a mantra-- she is NOTHING to me. I am the wife, I am the mother of these amazing children, and this is MY family. I am the queen of my castle. Always. (If you want I will find in my thread and repost. I have it saved on my phone to walk through when I need it.)


Yes please repost as she is taking up far too much of my time!

Today, before he went to therapy, I discovered that in Dec he took an entire day off work to spend with her while he was working away in the city. He sacrificed a whole day’s pay to be with her - i’m SO angry (not just this but he swore he hadn’t seen her since August...no wait, it was November...nope, it was December) . I confronted him and told him to FO out of my life. I know it was non-DB behaviour but I am absolutely sick of being drip-fed lies. Of course he’s played down the extent of their meet and I’ll probably never know the truth. As for us, I’d asked him if he would come home a day early that week as it was the week before Christmas and there were things on with the kids. But he said he couldn’t come home early because of a team meeting. What a load of BS. It was that night that I woke up at 3 am and trawled through his iPad....talk about female intuition.

Quote

He is scared of all that a S/D would entail-- hurting the kids as his primary fear. His recent convo with my MIL has I think also made real a lot more potential fears he was dismissing-- financial, shame and disappointment among friends and family, a lot more around hurting me and the kids, etc. He has been saying since he gave me the final BD a couple of weeks ago (confessing to the 2 year PA instead of a much shorter EA) us to come to a decision "together" and I think in his mind all along once we got to this position I would be the one to tell him to go (but also somehow in the end would be happy for him and we'd still be best friends? Just another example of the fantastical storm of what is happening inside his head). Last night he said his two biggest fears are that I won't really be able to forgive him and that he won't ever really get over AP.

Sounds identical to my H a couple of weeks ago. Hadn’t considered financial impact or impact on kids until I presented the research and sums.Assumed they’d be ok as kids are resilient and adapt well!

His therapist told him today that he hadn’t been very good at covering up his lies, and that he had probably subconsciously intended for me to find out and kick him out- so that he wouldn’t be the one forced to make a decision to go. I read this a lot, that men want someone to make the decision for them. After I found out about the day off, he asked me what now, I said what do you mean, and he responded “well you can kick me out now”. So yes, looking for me to make the call.

Quote

I 100% understand that it would be so, so much easier if he was gone to stop struggling with the paranoia and deal with this whiplash of a H. (Yours totally sounds like that-- one day checking out your underwear and the next day he married a mother figure? Give me a break.) I have been spending this time trying to get more and more OK with the idea that it is really over, he will move out, how can I protect myself and my children through that process? I do feel like I'm starting to detach more and more. Can you work on that? The good thing about being detached is that then it doesn't matter if he is in your house or not-- his behavior, mood swings, new announcements, text threads, etc don't affect YOU. You do you and let his craziness stay outside of your bubble.

Hang in there. I know exactly how awful this all is. I'm there too if it helps. Hugs.

We had a long talk this evening, he is still confused, but he said when he’s not with me, it becomes clear he needs to leave, then when he sees me, he gets confused again. This is what tends to happen when he goes away - he’ll leave me saying he’s not sure what he wants, then when he gets back he wants to leave. repeat every week. So tomorrow he’ll go away and I don’t know whether he’s staying or leaving, but by Thursday I’m sure he’ll be planning his exit again. I wish something would break the cycle, but that’s out of my control. I just need to focus on me and kids.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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This is something BluWave posted on my thread and I refer to it often. It has been incredibly helpful for me.

You are the queen of your castle. Always.
You are the wife, you are the mother of these children, and this is YOUR family.
This is your home and you have a right to feel comfortable and safe there.
These M problems are not your fault alone.
The SSM was not your fault alone.
His A is not your fault and will never be your fault. This is HIS doing and his problem alone.
Right now, he is in the wrong and there is no justifying this selfish behavior. No more taking the blame.
OW is nothing and means nothing to you.
It is okay to feel angry, jealous, hurt, furious and anything you need to feel! Feel it and own those feelings -- they are your feelings!
There are safe people you can share your feelings with that won't judge you. Find them and cherish them.
You never have to compete with OW
There is no competition.
She is nothing to you.
It is not your job to convince him to stay.
You do not have to compromise your own needs or wants for him or any man.
You can take all the time and space you need.
You don't have to make any decisions or changes today.
There is always more time.
You do not have to share a bed with a liar and a cheater.
If he wants to leave for her, that is his choice and you can let him go.
He can own that decision and he can own the consequences of it.
He can break up his family if he chooses and you can still protect your castle and children. They will be okay.
You can still hold your head up high and you are still the queen.
I promise you will be okay with or without him there.
In time, this will work out for the best, eventually.
If over time you allow him back, or don't want him back, that is your own choice and no one elses opinion matters that much.
Life is long and complicated. Things will change for the bad, but also for the good.
In time, you can learn to love again and you will come out of this stronger.
You deserve love and respect.
Start by being the one to give that to yourself.
You can do this.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
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Thank you May for sharing. I will read and re-read that every time I feel a wobble. (Probably several times over next fe days.)The SSM resonates with me, and I do agree that there is no one person to blame.

H has departed for the city. We hugged and held each other close a lot yesterday, all initiated by him, including at bed time. I think this was largely down to guilt in relation to his decision to leave. He also initiated R talks earlier, as always being tormented over the contented life and friendship he has with me versus that desire for a deeper connection. He is struggling to understand -and asked me - why I don’t feel the need to go and find it, knowing that he can’t give me what I need. I didn’t have time to respond before he had to leave. But it is something for me to think about, because I am starting to question what I want, and whether my vision of us being happily married is as much of a fantasy as his idealised view of divorce.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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