WAW - is it too late?

[RVM]

IC recommended that I casually let her know that I am to plant a seed in her mind.

OK well then it seems your IC is trying to get a reaction out of your W.

I think you have to decide whether or not YOU want to tell her (regardless of how she takes it). Just don't tell her because you want to show her you are working on yourself - that's not a good reason.

Completely agree. I only plan to casually mention it if there ever is a reason to in a conversation.

[sandi2]

No, not at all. And, this only started when she became wayward. It's not a daily occurrence. My W also has had a history of making these judgy/bossy/petty-critical types of comments to all people who've become really close to her - the kids, her family. They all recognize it as one of her traits.

Unfortunately, it can get worse. Maybe she tends to be pessimistic, and she doesn't really try to absorb that which would give her a more positive attitude. IMHO, resentment/bitterness feeds the negative attitude. (If she suffers from depression then that just adds to it.) That is probably why you saw it becoming more obvious when she became wayward. I believe getting all that negative attitude out of her heart/mind, is one of the hardest jobs the WW faces when she reconciles with her H. If she's authentic in wanting to do the work, then she must have surgery on that rotten attitude. It's not easy, b/c her negative mental attitude produces verbal disrespect, as well as overtly disrespecting her H. In other words, it turns into her common every day behavior pattern, and the longer she is allowed to get away with that type of behavior, the more she'll produce it.

I've never had a problem with quick, witty comebacks. In fact, that's one thing I've always been really good at.

Okay, great. Just one thing I want to point out here. When I speak about a quick comeback.......I'm not talking about witty comebacks. Separate funny playing from put-downs, jabs, etc. It's not helpful, or right, for the WW to make a snide remark and if you call her out about it.......she claims she was just joking. You have to distinguish between what is acceptable when verbally joking/playing..........and where to draw the line. I've seen couples start out smack talking each other.......and eventually, one is going to go too far. That is a behavior that should cease immediately, when you have a WW. I mean, the H needs to stop his funny jabs or bantering. You have a WW who is disrespecting you, so nothing is funny about it, and she can't be given slack. Since it feels natural for you to respond with something witty........you may need to be extra careful. FWIW, I think you were referring to when she's not saying something disrespectful. Still, I urge you to not engage in smack talk.........b/c that is an invitation for verbal disrespect, and what can you say if she claims it wasn't serious? It's about drawing lines, and respecting those lines.

While talking about bantering, how do the two of you interact around your couple friends, relatives, or when you are out in public? Let's say the two of you are attending a cook-out and there are several people there. Do the two of you banter with each other there? I mean, you see it as all being good fun, right? At whose expense? Does it ever hit below the belt? Do you ever feel as if she tries to make you the butt of her jokes......then you have to one up? This is important, so I hope you will answer.

But, when all the red flags were raised about a possible A, plus all the spewing that seemingly came out of nowhere, I was thrown back and not sure how to respond.

For sure, you don't respond the same way you would do if she wasn't behaving suspiciously or saying something snide. If you've already told her you aren't going to tolerate being spoken to in that manner, then you need to practice various scenarios, and how you would respond. When I say practice, I mean you get somewhere nobody else will be able to observe, and if there is a mirror......even better. You know some of her snide remarks directed at you, so practice how you would call her out on it. I don't think you should call her out in front of anyone. As soon as you are alone with her after the offense, you tell her she showed disrespect. You speak calmly, slowly, and seriously. You don't threaten or give an ultimatum. (Boundaries are not ultimatums.) Be sure you are standing and your body language reflects strength & confidence. This has been an on-going behavior, and you want it stopped. If she apologizes, sincerely, (not one of those mad, sulky apologies, or where she tries to make it your fault), then you can accept her apology, but it doesn't change your stand. Don't accidentally say, "Oh, that's okay".

I don't recommend waiting to the end of a long, stressful day to approach her. Don't wait until bedtime or late at night.
You try to start another conversation and ease in the part about disrespect. You don't want her distracted about why you called her out. So, as soon as she apologizes, or not, you need to leave the room to do something else. The most important thing is not her apology, it's her action (stopping the offensive).

I think there are some examples on the boundaries link that might be helpful. Look for the poster named Coach.

Let's talk about her spewing. Is she spewing about you to you? Is she spewing about the kids, in front of the kids? Give me a little more information here. If she is not cussing out her H, screaming to the top of her lungs........then, sure, I could see him calmly listening......even validating her feelings, as long he understands what validation is and what it isn't. I think most women have times they need to vent about their day or a particular situation. Personally, I'm not what you would consider-----passive. So, when I am venting, I usually show a lot of---passion.
However, I don't swear, threaten, resort to name calling, throw things, yell/scream, or any of that type of behavior. Listening to your W vent her frustration, is not an excuse for you to put up with her ugly treatment. Know the difference? She can vent without getting angry out of control, etc.

Since this is my W and mother of my children and not just some friend or family member I could more easily distance myself from physically and emotionally, I've struggled on how to deal with these situations.

Okay, I see a lot of H's who have NGS want to just walk away whenever his WW is obviously disrespecting him in front of his kids or others. That's how nice-guys deal with bad behavior. If a discussion doesn't work, their next step is to walk away. Sometimes, that is the only thing you can do....at the moment. Let's break this down and maybe clarify.

(1) Don't confuse the issue of respect with the subject of detaching. We aren't talking about detaching here.

(2) The appropriate action is to disengage from the WW, who is out of control, or trying to fight you. The goal is to prevent a physical altercation, a loud verbal fight, and scaring the kids to death. You don't want the cops called. We have seen a couple wayward wife cases where the WW called the cops on her H, with bogus allegations, and the cops arrested the H in those particular cases. If it is a case of she said----he said, I think they take the woman's word over the man's, if there are no witnesses. Now, my question to you......is this the type of situation you were referring to when you said walk away?

(3) When the issue is less about avoiding a fight, and more about addressing the WW's obvious disrespect, the goal should be to command (not demand) respect under his own roof, and to teach his children to be respectful. If they see mom showing disrespect for daddy, then they will do it, too. Before there is another incident, he can calmly approach his WW about how her disrespectful comments (and/or behavior) make him feel. If she apologizes and says she will try to be more respectful, the H can respond by saying thanks, and end it. However, if it happens the second time, then he needs to firmly inform her that he will not tolerate disrespect in front of his children (or other people). By the third offense, he should be prepared to enforce an effective boundary.

You said you wanted examples of consequences. It's not that simple to give a blanket answer. We need YOU to give us some examples of things she says, or something she does that is a direct show of a lack of respect. Then, we can weigh in with our ideas, suggestions, or experiences in how to handle it. OK?

[RVM]

When I speak about a quick comeback.......I'm not talking about witty comebacks. Separate funny playing from put-downs, jabs, etc. It's not helpful, or right, for the WW to make a snide remark and if you call her out about it.......she claims she was just joking. You have to distinguish between what is acceptable when verbally joking/playing..........and where to draw the line. I've seen couples start out smack talking each other.......and eventually, one is going to go too far. That is a behavior that should cease immediately, when you have a WW. I mean, the H needs to stop his funny jabs or bantering. You have a WW who is disrespecting you, so nothing is funny about it, and she can't be given slack. Since it feels natural for you to respond with something witty........you may need to be extra careful. FWIW, I think you were referring to when she's not saying something disrespectful. Still, I urge you to not engage in smack talk.........b/c that is an invitation for verbal disrespect, and what can you say if she claims it wasn't serious? It's about drawing lines, and respecting those lines.

While talking about bantering, how do the two of you interact around your couple friends, relatives, or when you are out in public? Let's say the two of you are attending a cook-out and there are several people there. Do the two of you banter with each other there? I mean, you see it as all being good fun, right? At whose expense? Does it ever hit below the belt? Do you ever feel as if she tries to make you the butt of her jokes......then you have to one up? This is important, so I hope you will answer.

Since the BD, I’ve only made witty, jokey comebacks when we are both clearly joking. However, in those early months post-BD, when she would make some kind of unprovoked snide remark or slightly under her breath personal attack, I would respond with a biting comeback and sometimes my comebacks were nasty. Once I started reading about WWS, coming to this forum, etc I changed that tactic and stifled (for the most part), some of my nasty comebacks. Occasionally, I’ll make mistakes and get drawn in.

I also don’t always just let her get away with her under the breath comments. When I’m in a good mindset, I can just quietly and confidently squash it. And, sometimes in her presence – when she’s acting smug or arrogant, I’m like a frayed live wire and just try to physically get out of her sight so I don’t make a really nasty comment or call her out on everything she’s done. It’s just I don’t know when she’ll do this, and it will sometimes catch me off my guard and I emotionally react rather than stoically respond.

As far as interacting together around others – we are generally respectful and occasionally act as if everything’s normal. It does make me seethe under the surface at times. Mostly, because it just illustrates how good she is at lying and leading a double-life. She’ll occasionally make a personal jab at me in front of others, which prior to BD, I might have laughed off more and not taken it seriously. But, since BD and flags being raised, it’s been a bit more of a challenge to accept these jabs from someone who has clearly disrespected our M in the worst possible way.

The one thing that has increased from her is her possessiveness she displays in front of others with me in earshot: i.e. calling our kids – “her kids” or our house “her house” etc. I’ve called her out on this a few times. But, it still comes out occasionally.

For sure, you don't respond the same way you would do if she wasn't behaving suspiciously or saying something snide. If you've already told her you aren't going to tolerate being spoken to in that manner, then you need to practice various scenarios, and how you would respond. When I say practice, I mean you get somewhere nobody else will be able to observe, and if there is a mirror......even better.

You know some of her snide remarks directed at you, so practice how you would call her out on it. I don't think you should call her out in front of anyone. As soon as you are alone with her after the offense, you tell her she showed disrespect. You speak calmly, slowly, and seriously. You don't threaten or give an ultimatum. (Boundaries are not ultimatums.) Be sure you are standing and your body language reflects strength & confidence.

This has been an on-going behavior, and you want it stopped. If she apologizes, sincerely, (not one of those mad, sulky apologies, or where she tries to make it your fault), then you can accept her apology, but it doesn't change your stand. Don't accidentally say, "Oh, that's okay".

I’ll try this out.

Let's talk about her spewing. Is she spewing about you to you? Is she spewing about the kids, in front of the kids? Give me a little more information here. If she is not cussing out her H, screaming to the top of her lungs........then, sure, I could see him calmly listening......even validating her feelings, as long he understands what validation is and what it isn't. I think most women have times they need to vent about their day or a particular situation. Personally, I'm not what you would consider-----passive. So, when I am venting, I usually show a lot of---passion.

However, I don't swear, threaten, resort to name calling, throw things, yell/scream, or any of that type of behavior. Listening to your W vent her frustration, is not an excuse for you to put up with her ugly treatment. Know the difference? She can vent without getting angry out of control, etc.

Her outright spewing at me has quieted down recently. She doesn’t yell at me. But, it was really bad in early months post-BD as I was super emotional and accusatory and argumentative with her.

Now, her nastiness is mostly under her breath, snide remarks about me or how I do things – either directly at me or within earshot of me to others. Or she’ll just stonewall me. She’s always been OCD about how things are done around the house or things involving the kids. But, they’ve become magnified and made more as personal attacks of me since BD.

Pre-BD, I had no problem arguing with her about these things as I never appreciated someone watching over my shoulder as I’m loading the effing dishwasher or taking out the garbage too soon (“there’s still a little space in there, don’t it out yet”). Pre-BD, I would still do it 90% of the time my way.

Early days, post-BD, I did EVERYTHING her way. And, now, I’m almost 100% back to my way again. But, it’s the snide comments that I haven’t had a good strategy for stifling as my emotions will occasionally run hot now because of our sitch. It has become a million times more difficult to accept petty criticisms from someone who may be cheating on you, than someone who is commited to you.

Post-BD, her spewing at the kids when they misbehave has gotten much worse too. I’ve heard her calling them “brats”, “acting like jerks”, or telling them “they are worst behaved people she’s ever met.” She is a yeller too. And, a nasty yeller at that. And, it has gotten worse when it comes out.

I did confront her after a recent episode where the kids were talking back to her, she blew up at them, and stormed out of the room. Both of the girls were crying and told me “she is so mean to us”, “she hates us”, etc. I went to our MBR and without any emotion told her how bad their reaction was and asked her to go talk to them separately and explain why she was so upset. I didn’t want the kids going to bed without a resolution. She accepted my concern and later did so.

The weird thing is, when she’s not yelling at them, she is so “schmoopy-schmoopy” with them. Like telling them in a weird tone and facial expression how much she loves them and showering them with hugs. This is a daily occurrence now. It’s very awkward for me to witness, but I guess that’s part of her WWS script now. She must have some guilt about what’s happened to our F.

Okay, I see a lot of H's who have NGS want to just walk away whenever his WW is obviously disrespecting him in front of his kids or others. That's how nice-guys deal with bad behavior. If a discussion doesn't work, their next step is to walk away. Sometimes, that is the only thing you can do....at the moment. Let's break this down and maybe clarify.

(1) Don't confuse the issue of respect with the subject of detaching. We aren't talking about detaching here.

(2) The appropriate action is to disengage from the WW, who is out of control, or trying to fight you. The goal is to prevent a physical altercation, a loud verbal fight, and scaring the kids to death. You don't want the cops called. We have seen a couple wayward wife cases where the WW called the cops on her H, with bogus allegations, and the cops arrested the H in those particular cases. If it is a case of she said----he said, I think they take the woman's word over the man's, if there are no witnesses. Now, my question to you......is this the type of situation you were referring to when you said walk away?

(3) When the issue is less about avoiding a fight, and more about addressing the WW's obvious disrespect, the goal should be to command (not demand) respect under his own roof, and to teach his children to be respectful. If they see mom showing disrespect for daddy, then they will do it, too. Before there is another incident, he can calmly approach his WW about how her disrespectful comments (and/or behavior) make him feel. If she apologizes and says she will try to be more respectful, the H can respond by saying thanks, and end it. However, if it happens the second time, then he needs to firmly inform her that he will not tolerate disrespect in front of his children (or other people). By the third offense, he should be prepared to enforce an effective boundary.

Yes, this is the situation I was referring to when I will just walk away. I realize it isn’t necessarily a long term effective strategy, and based on her expressions I can picture her smugly giggling to herself when I walk away.

I don’t always do it, but I am trying to when she touches a nerve. I’ve gotten better about detaching as I look at her differently now, so these situations dosn’t always get me emotional, but sometimes they do. And, rather than react with a nasty putdown comeback, I’m working on removing myself from the situation and responding to her in a detached manner later.

[RVM]

Not looking forward to my gym closing.

Time to go buy some kettle balls and also dust off the yoga mat.

[sandi2]

However, in those early months post-BD, when she would make some kind of unprovoked snide remark or slightly under her breath personal attack, I would respond with a biting comeback and sometimes my comebacks were nasty. Once I started reading about WWS, coming to this forum, etc I changed that tactic and stifled (for the most part), some of my nasty comebacks. Occasionally, I’ll make mistakes and get drawn in.

You have to emotionally detach from the drama in that moment, in order for you to calmly handle the real issue at hand.....which is her lack of respect. How are you going to address her lack of respect if you are acting just as badly? You have this WW who operates strictly from her emotions, so if she disrespects you, are you going to operate from your emotions, too? That's pretty much going to guarantee digging the marriage grave deeper. Emotions are not designed to think. Google defines emotions as a natural instinctive state of mind deriving from one's circumstances, mood, or relationships with others. Emotions are designed to feel……... not think. As you've pointed out, when you have a good mindset, you feel confident, which goes to show how important it is to maintain a healthy, balanced mental attitude.

So, how do you keep your emotions under control, when your W says/acts disrespectful? Practice! Remind yourself emotions can’t think. You mentally shift gears, so you can think properly and have discernment. Look at it as putting on your adult hat, b/c she is behaving like a rude, disrespectful, mouthy, rebellious teenager. If you are going to be the adult in the situation, then you cannot react with similar behavior seen in her. You have to put your emotions in check, so you can draw from the logical side of your brain. In order to be respected, you have to conduct yourself in a respectful manner.

I also don’t always just let her get away with her under the breath comments. When I’m in a good mindset, I can just quietly and confidently squash it. And, sometimes in her presence – when she’s acting smug or arrogant, I’m like a frayed live wire and just try to physically get out of her sight so I don’t make a really nasty comment or call her out on everything she’s done. It’s just I don’t know when she’ll do this, and it will sometimes catch me off my guard and I emotionally react rather than stoically respond.

So, one time you are feeling like a confident man, and "squash it", while another time you aren't feeling like a confident man, which leaves you vulnerable. Know why? B/c when you are vulnerable, the format is set for your emotions to jump in to respond/react. Every day you have to have to practice with whatever happens in your surroundings. You are vulnerable when you don’t feel confident and in charge of yourself. That’s what you work on. Who is responsible for your emotions? YOU! Who controls your emotions? YOU!

You never know when she's going to act smug or arrogant and it catches you off guard? Okay………….let’s try this. By the power invested in me as a former WW, I now declare you on guard, as long as you both shall live.

Seriously, nobody gets "to know" beforehand, and that's why we tell LBH's they need to work on themselves. Every day you work on being a confident man. You can't feel great 100% of the time, but you can learn how to use your logical thinking, and not run in the opposite direction b/c your emotions are overwhelming. She has a WW mindset, so know that she's going to continue this behavior until she learns it isn't worth the consequences. You've been warned.

As far as interacting together around others – we are generally respectful and occasionally act as if everything’s normal. It does make me seethe under the surface at times. Mostly, because it just illustrates how good she is at lying and leading a double-life.
The one thing that has increased from her is her possessiveness she displays in front of others with me in earshot: i.e. calling our kids – “her kids” or our house “her house” etc.

I could be missing how you mean the second part ^^^^^^^^^. Are you sure you aren't being a bit over-sensitive? It’s understandable that you are sensitive to most everything she says or does. You take it personally. IMHO, you need some discernment before you can set effective boundaries. You need to understand how a wife shows her H disrespect, and we can help if you’ll continue giving us examples. FWIW, when I'm talking with other women, I say "my kids" and "my house", but it is not to show possessiveness. Are you suggesting she emphasizes “my” or repeats several times, while looking side-eyed at you? Does she brag to your friends (men & women) to make you look bad? IDK, I hope you'll explain.

Her outright spewing at me has quieted down recently. She doesn’t yell at me. But, it was really bad in early months post-BD as I was super emotional and accusatory and argumentative with her.

I don't know what she said in her spewing, but yelling is disrespectful. The above quote is a perfect example where both people are reacting from negative emotions. Based on what I read from nice-guy H's, they experience a lot of fear after the bomb drops. Just between you and me, they all do, but the other guys don't let their WW see their fear. It's important that she doesn't sense you are intimated, threatened, scared, etc. Your job is to be the head of your family. Who wants a husband/father to lead & protect them if he's crying or afraid? I'm not saying you can never feel those things, but don't show it in front of the troops. They need to feel confident that their General is up for the job.

Early days, post-BD, I did EVERYTHING her way. And, now, I’m almost 100% back to my way again. But, it’s the snide comments that I haven’t had a good strategy for stifling as my emotions will occasionally run hot now because of our sitch. It has become a million times more difficult to accept petty criticisms from someone who may be cheating on you, than someone who is commited to you.

I'm going to pick up here in the next post, since this one is so long.

[sandi2]

Part 2...........from previous post

Early days, post-BD, I did EVERYTHING her way. And, now, I’m almost 100% back to my way again.

What do you mean "her way" and "your way"?

It has become a million times more difficult to accept petty criticisms from someone who may be cheating on you, than someone who is commited to you.

You make a valid point. It won't be easy, for the fact you suspect she's cheating, and for the fact, you've let her get away with a certain amount of snide remarks under her breath, etc., for a while. Now, your nerves are jumping over every thing said......which works against your ability to determine fairly if she's out of line. Let me ask you, does she criticize you in front of others? Is it more like in everyday interaction, like she's frustrated you don't remember to carry the trash out? It's one thing for her to feel frustration over having to remind/ask you every time. It's quite another if she uses words that are condescending, yelling, cursing, etc. If she's doing that.......then, IMHO, she crosses the line of respect. I mean, I could write forever on this subject and may not hit exactly what you need. Sometimes, a wife can develop unattractive habitual behavior, (and H's do, too), where she can't tell him to pick up his clothes without accusing him of being dim-witted, or worse. If he just brushes it off, then the next time she's going to speak harsher. First thing he knows, she's screaming to the top of her lungs, threatening, cursing, etc. It goes from "petty" to hard core. If the MR is on the rocks, and especially if he suspects her of cheating, then his antenna is on high alert.

Post-BD, her spewing at the kids when they misbehave has gotten much worse too. I’ve heard her calling them “brats”, “acting like jerks”, or telling them “they are worst behaved people she’s ever met.” She is a yeller too. And, a nasty yeller at that. And, it has gotten worse when it comes out.

Well, it may not be as bad in real life as it sounds on paper, but if it is.........that is verbal abuse. Maybe she needs better parenting and coping skills, but look at the affect it has on the kids. She operates on emotions with everyone, no exceptions. Everything is about her. Maybe she was treated the same way when she was growing up. Here's the thing. As the protector, it's your responsibility to protect those little girls from a mother (or anyone else) who is yelling, name calling, and verbally bashing them. Parents should present a united front, but if she has a wayward mindset, she might not be so cooperative.

[RVMer]

I'm the OP of this thread, but cannot recall my login info and password resets have been fruitless. It has been months since I was last active here, so I had to create a new profile.

If the mods could assist, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll create a new thread to continue this.

[Cadet]

I'm the OP of this thread, but cannot recall my login info and password resets have been fruitless. It has been months since I was last active here, so I had to create a new profile.

If the mods could assist, that would be great. Otherwise, I'll create a new thread to continue this.

We have no power to do anything about username and passwords.
If you can not reset then use this username to continue this thread here until 100 posts

[RVMer]

It’s been several months since I posted here. And, only recently really got back into reading this forum. I’m glad I did though. Because, I think I’ve let my guard down a bit too much. I chalk a lot of that up to the quarantine.

So, I’ve been in this limbo state since the quasi-BD occurred in Sept 19. There has been no reconciliation of our R. At best, there’s been a softening of the huge disconnect we’ve had. But, that’s fleeting. And, there’s been no affection of any kind. I think the last time we even had a peck of a kiss was on New Year’s Eve. There’s been no talks of our MR. It’s now been almost 10 months of this situation – though, I started to have some serious concerns about my wife’s behavior several months before that.

Other than suspicious behavior and suspicious phone records, I still don’t have concrete proof of her A. But, I’d be a fool to believe one hadn’t or isn’t currently happening. The quarantine may have stifled the PA a bit. But, a cheater will find a way to get their fix. And, I’m guessing the odd trips to the grocery store a day after a grocery store trip was already made; or the extra-long early morning walks are opportunities to meet with OM.

The quarantine has made it a challenge to be a ghost. With my 2 D’s remote learnin, and both of us working from home, we’re around each other a lot. Most of it has been fine – cordial. Though we rarely talk, and if we do, it is very basic and logistical. As before, once the girls go to bed, we go to separate areas of the house. We are still sharing a bed, but there’s not even any good-nights or good-mornings anymore. She’s usually asleep in bed an hour before I go to bed. And, she usually gets up at least 30 min before I do.

But, I have been GAL’ing as best as one can do during the quarantine. I’ve done a million home improvement projects, tons of gardening/landscaping projects, and spending as much time as possible with my D’s. I've also continued taking guitar lessons. Absolutely loving that. I've been working out like a madman at home. And, my attitude in general is much more positive.

And, I do not pursue my W at all. I never initiate conversations unless it’s something logistical. I will crack a joke. But, I honestly try to avoid her as much as possible. My W has softened her communications with me a bit more. By softening – I mean she doesn’t lead conversations with spewing anymore. I don’t know if I just attribute this to the quarantine situation we’re in or what. I try not to read much into it. But, I have made mistakes when she’s been making pleasant, fun conversations with me and I’ll get too comfortable and joke around with her. And, then BAM, within an instant, she’ll make some unprovoked insult. And, I have to mentally reset.

I am getting to the point where I really don’t like her anymore though. I feel like I’m able to step outside of myself more often and just see how she’s behaved, and her outright arrogance. It is difficult to now imagine a future with this person.

I’ll write more as I have time. But, I would like some advice. We have a vacation planned to her family’s place by a lake this Saturday for a week. This is a place that many members of her extended family share for visits. We agreed on this earlier this year. I was reluctant to agree with our situation, but did so for the kids. And, we generally get along once we’re away from our home life.

Anyway, my W and I were having a really nice convo rehashing previous trips to this place. And, out of the blue, she mentioned that one of the hiking trail guide books was missing from the house. And, she said that I took it years ago and never returned it. And, I should put it back when we go back. I was flabbergasted at this accusation. I never took anything from this place. This was the first time I’ve ever heard of this. I immediately said (in a nice tone), “no, I never took that. I’ve never taken anything from the house.” She was adamant that I did in an accusatory tone. I held my stance. And, the convo ended and we just went on as normal.

It really baffled me at the time. I’ve always respected personal property. I later chalked it up to spewing. But, it really pissed me off because one of my D’s heard the whole conversation. I don’t want to bring it up with my W again because it’s pointless. I’ll hold my stance if she or anyone else does.

But, I also really don’t want to drive in the car with her on this trip. I’m seriously considering taking my own car and packing up some things: bikes, etc, that wouldn’t fit in our other car. I can easily diffuse the idea with kids with the extra items I want to bring. Just curious what people may think here.

Does this look too passive-aggressive, even though once that conversation ended it was never discussed again?

[RVMer]

So, I decided last night that I didn’t want to deal with the potential drama of taking a separate car, so I travelled with my W and D’s in her car. It was fine, we were cordial for the long ride. I kept it light and simple.

So we get to the house and her parents arrive as well. And, as she does in these situations,
my W changes her mask. She’s now acting mostly like my W again in front of her parents. She’s even been semi-flirtatious. I forgot what this felt like. But, I also don’t make much of it. I know what mask she’ll put back on as soon as we are back home. I plan to keep our interactions light. I’m making a lot of lighthearted jokes and having fun. I won’t pursue. And, I will keep my focus on my kids.

Oh, and that trail guide book that I supposedly took years ago is here, on the bookshelf, in the exact location where one would expect it to be. I don’t know if my W saw it, or even looked for that matter. Hell, she might not even remember her spewing at me about it just a few days ago. It wouldn’t be the first time she spewed and forgot about it almost immediately.

I don’t plan to even bring it up either. There’s no point. She wouldn’t apologize anyway. If she does mention it, I’ll just stoically acknowledge what she said at the time, but won’t ask for apology or anything.