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Some more thoughts...

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As mentioned in previous post W makes a lot of passive-aggressive, argument-baiting judgy comments towards me - often done low-key in front of the kids. I’ve been mostly good about responding with nods or “okay” type of comments. But, overall I am struggling with this and mostly it is because it just feels like she’s potentially poisoning my kids’ minds.
Any suggestions on how to handle these situations? Should I bring this issue up with my W? Or just validate or ignore and move on?

Another question in regards to GAL. So, besides the things I’ve mentioned earlier, I have gotten dressed up nicely after the kids have gone to bed and just said, “I’m going out tonight” and left.

I’m not concerned about going out and not giving her details of what I’m doing. But, I am concerned that 1) Since these things happen without giving W any real advance notice, W may think I’m just avoiding parental responsibility (if kids wake up, etc).

2) W may also think I’m being reckless or spiteful – i.e. going out to bars and drinking. She knows I go to the gym almost every weeknight. But, the weekend nights, she really has no idea what I’ve been up to.

She did make a comment a few weeks ago – “are you going to go out every night now?” in a disapproving/angry tone. But, hasn’t said anything since then about my GAL activities and does not show any emotion regarding my activities.

We are not currently S or D. But, she has said a few times over the past few months, that "if we ever get D, I want it to be amicable."

Sandi, et al. I'd like some feedback on my past few posts.

Last edited by RVM; 03/06/20 04:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by RVM
Some more thoughts...

------------------------

As mentioned in previous post W makes a lot of passive-aggressive, argument-baiting judgy comments towards me - often done low-key in front of the kids. I’ve been mostly good about responding with nods or “okay” type of comments. But, overall I am struggling with this and mostly it is because it just feels like she’s potentially poisoning my kids’ minds.
Any suggestions on how to handle these situations? Should I bring this issue up with my W? Or just validate or ignore and move on?


Stop nodding, or saying okay to them. IGNORE THEM. Your kids minds aren't going to be poisoned to you based on what your W says, they will be based on what you do. So give them no reason to think of you as anything other than an awesome dad.

Originally Posted by RVM

Another question in regards to GAL. So, besides the things I’ve mentioned earlier, I have gotten dressed up nicely after the kids have gone to bed and just said, “I’m going out tonight” and left.

I’m not concerned about going out and not giving her details of what I’m doing. But, I am concerned that 1) Since these things happen without giving W any real advance notice, W may think I’m just avoiding parental responsibility (if kids wake up, etc).


I really wouldn't care what she thinks. Work on your detachment.

Originally Posted by RVM


2) W may also think I’m being reckless or spiteful – i.e. going out to bars and drinking. She knows I go to the gym almost every weeknight. But, the weekend nights, she really has no idea what I’ve been up to.


See answer above.

Originally Posted by RVM

She did make a comment a few weeks ago – “are you going to go out every night now?” in a disapproving/angry tone. But, hasn’t said anything since then about my GAL activities and does not show any emotion regarding my activities.


If it comes up again simply say: "I am trying to stay busy to deal with everything that has happened." And then shutup and listen and validate. "Well, you going out all the time makes me feel like you are avoiding your parental duties." You: 'I can understand how you'd feel that, way. The kids are already in bed before I go out. If they wake up and you need assistance, just text me."



Originally Posted by RVM

We are not currently S or D. But, she has said a few times over the past few months, that "if we ever get D, I want it to be amicable."

Sandi, et al. I'd like some feedback on my past few posts.


They all say that. "I understand how you feel, and I agree that we should do so amicably with a focus on the our kids."

As far as feedback, I'd like to know what you are doing about dinner with your friends?


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Originally Posted by Steve85

As far as feedback, I'd like to know what you are doing about dinner with your friends?


I'm not going out with them. I'm also not excited about now giving your response as a reason as too much time has passed, that saying that now isn't a good look. These friends I would say are closer to her than me. But, I liked your response and should have used that immediately. And, I believe I will still go out as W has given the okay (without us ever discussing the topic.)


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Remember: You cannot nice her back.


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As mentioned in previous post W makes a lot of passive-aggressive, argument-baiting judgy comments towards me - often done low-key in front of the kids. I’ve been mostly good about responding with nods or “okay” type of comments. But, overall I am struggling with this and mostly it is because it just feels like she’s potentially poisoning my kids’ minds.
Any suggestions on how to handle these situations? Should I bring this issue up with my W? Or just validate or ignore and move on?
[/quote]

Originally Posted by Steve85
Stop nodding, or saying okay to them. IGNORE THEM. Your kids minds aren't going to be poisoned to you based on what your W says, they will be based on what you do. So give them no reason to think of you as anything other than an awesome dad.


Agreed. And, this is what I do almost all of the time.

Originally Posted by RVM

She did make a comment a few weeks ago – “are you going to go out every night now?” in a disapproving/angry tone. But, hasn’t said anything since then about my GAL activities and does not show any emotion regarding my activities.


Originally Posted by Steve85
If it comes up again simply say: "I am trying to stay busy to deal with everything that has happened." And then shutup and listen and validate. "Well, you going out all the time makes me feel like you are avoiding your parental duties." You: 'I can understand how you'd feel that, way. The kids are already in bed before I go out. If they wake up and you need assistance, just text me."


Good replies, thanks.

Originally Posted by RVM

We are not currently S or D. But, she has said a few times over the past few months, that "if we ever get D, I want it to be amicable."

Sandi, et al. I'd like some feedback on my past few posts.


Originally Posted by Steve85
They all say that. "I understand how you feel, and I agree that we should do so amicably with a focus on the our kids."


Good to know. I've done this. I think the one mistake I kept making was bringing that topic up when I was really in my depressed fog a few months ago.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Remember: You cannot nice her back.

Agreed. I tried that and failed miserably for months after BD. Once my depression-fog lifted, I've been better about this - albeit with plenty of mistakes.

I'm at a stage right now, that I'm not even sure I want her back. If my kids were older I might have more conviction to file for D. She is so far removed from the person I knew and loved. Looking back at the 1+ years, I see where all the deception and lies were made. And, her outright gas lighting of me with friends and family had me reeling for a long time. I'm not sure how I'll get past that.


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Quote
W sways from being smiley and nice to me, to making passive-aggressive comments/judgments, or acting really smug and dismissive – almost as if she’s flaunting her A with OM. I’ve mostly done a good job at not reacting to these tests. It’s tough, as that’s one of things I failed miserably at in the past.


Is that how you see her passive-aggressive comments/judgments and behaving smug and dismissive...........as "tests"? In the past, how did you respond or react to this type of behavior?

Quote
As mentioned in previous post W makes a lot of passive-aggressive, argument-baiting judgy comments towards me - often done low-key in front of the kids. I’ve been mostly good about responding with nods or “okay” type of comments. But, overall I am struggling with this and mostly it is because it just feels like she’s potentially poisoning my kids’ minds.


RVM, these are disrespectful behavior patterns a WW uses. They might be seen as a test, in the sense the WW will always test her H's manhood. The more she loathes him, the more she'll put him down in front of his children, relatives, friends, etc. She is teaching her daughters how to verbally reduce the man to a pathetic doormat. If the H lets it slide, then he is showing his daughters that men are inferior and must endure the cruel tongue of his WW. That's harshly stated, but you get the idea. I think it becomes a pattern, and the H with NGS tells himself not to make a big deal of it and ignore. Kids take in everything their parents say/do to each other, so we are constantly painting a picture for them, about their future role in a MR, and the role of their partner.

I don't believe spouses should argue/fight in front of their children.......nor make put-downs, snide remarks, etc. I think there are men who know how to respond to this type of disrespect, and thereby, teach the children that the H should not tolerate such disrespect....especially, under his own roof. However, if he is a nice-guy and has never called his W's hand on how she speaks disrespectfully.......it might not be the wisest thing to make the first attempt in front of the kids, or anyone else....... b/c the war would be on! And, RVM, you never validate disrespectful behavior. To "ignore and move on", IMHO, is an invitation for more to come. The WW's verbal disrespect toward her H, should first be addressed privately, to let her know he is not going to roll over & play dead the next time it happens. That's why H's find themselves being treated like a doormat, b/c they would not stand up for themselves.

I want you to think about what you would do if you told her not to speak to you that way, and she responded by asking what you'd do if she chose not to stop. These are the things you need to consider. That's why you need to understand how to use effective boundaries. Boundaries are put in place to protect your feelings. If the other person chooses to ignore your boundary, then you need to have a plan of action. In other words, if you privately tell your WW that you will no longer tolerate her passive-aggressive, snide, disrespectful comments in front of the children........what action are you prepared to take, if she challenges you? I can guarantee she'll challenge you the first time, just to see if you have the guts to stand up to her. There is no point in speaking a boundary, if you aren't prepared to back it up with action.

If you have not read on the subject of personal & relationship boundaries, please do it ASAP. Maybe you can draw us a picture of her saying things you felt were passive-aggressive, smug or dismissive? Pl,ease don't even mention the word "boundary" until you have it down solid and know what you're doing. Don't be like some men in past times, who dug a deeper hole b/c they didn't do their homework.

Quote
Another question in regards to GAL. So, besides the things I’ve mentioned earlier, I have gotten dressed up nicely after the kids have gone to bed and just said, “I’m going out tonight” and left.


Great!

Quote
I’m not concerned about going out and not giving her details of what I’m doing. But, I am concerned that 1) Since these things happen without giving W any real advance notice, W may think I’m just avoiding parental responsibility (if kids wake up, etc).


No, you're just thinking like a nice-guy.

I don't want to contradict something previous stated on the subject of GAL, but if both spouses are GAL, then some advance notice may be necessary. If not, she'll beat you out the door. She'll plan ways of sticking you with the kids. You don't have to give details, but in order to make sure someone will be there with the kids, you may need to tell her you plan to go out on such & such night.

Quote
2) W may also think I’m being reckless or spiteful – i.e. going out to bars and drinking. She knows I go to the gym almost every weeknight. But, the weekend nights, she really has no idea what I’ve been up to.


She's not worried about her nice-guy H being reckless, going out to bars and drinking.

Quote
She did make a comment a few weeks ago – “are you going to go out every night now?” in a disapproving/angry tone.


Coming from a WW, that's rich (sarcasm intended). Don't fear her disapproval or angry mood. It's not your trustworthiness in question here, it's your WW's.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Quote
W sways from being smiley and nice to me, to making passive-aggressive comments/judgments, or acting really smug and dismissive – almost as if she’s flaunting her A with OM. I’ve mostly done a good job at not reacting to these tests. It’s tough, as that’s one of things I failed miserably at in the past.


Originally Posted by sandi2
Is that how you see her passive-aggressive comments/judgments and behaving smug and dismissive...........as "tests"? In the past, how did you respond or react to this type of behavior?


I'm not sure if tests is the correct word. But, they do feel like tests of my manhood. I'll have to start gathering examples so I can get some good feedback from you. However, in the past, I reacted almost immediately with defensive arguments back in not such a nice demeanor. Unfortunately, this happened in front of the kids sometimes. So, my wife would make snide comments under her breath, and I would snap back. And, we never had any follow up to whatever the argument was. We'd either both give the silent treatment for awhile (or moreso I would), and there would be tension in the air for awhile.

Quote
As mentioned in previous post W makes a lot of passive-aggressive, argument-baiting judgy comments towards me - often done low-key in front of the kids. I’ve been mostly good about responding with nods or “okay” type of comments. But, overall I am struggling with this and mostly it is because it just feels like she’s potentially poisoning my kids’ minds.


Originally Posted by sandi2
RVM, these are disrespectful behavior patterns a WW uses. They might be seen as a test, in the sense the WW will always test her H's manhood. The more she loathes him, the more she'll put him down in front of his children, relatives, friends, etc. She is teaching her daughters how to verbally reduce the man to a pathetic doormat. If the H lets it slide, then he is showing his daughters that men are inferior and must endure the cruel tongue of his WW. That's harshly stated, but you get the idea. I think it becomes a pattern, and the H with NGS tells himself not to make a big deal of it and ignore. Kids take in everything their parents say/do to each other, so we are constantly painting a picture for them, about their future role in a MR, and the role of their partner.

I don't believe spouses should argue/fight in front of their children.......nor make put-downs, snide remarks, etc. I think there are men who know how to respond to this type of disrespect, and thereby, teach the children that the H should not tolerate such disrespect....especially, under his own roof. However, if he is a nice-guy and has never called his W's hand on how she speaks disrespectfully.......it might not be the wisest thing to make the first attempt in front of the kids, or anyone else....... b/c the war would be on! And, RVM, you never validate disrespectful behavior. To "ignore and move on", IMHO, is an invitation for more to come. The WW's verbal disrespect toward her H, should first be addressed privately, to let her know he is not going to roll over & play dead the next time it happens. That's why H's find themselves being treated like a doormat, b/c they would not stand up for themselves.

I want you to think about what you would do if you told her not to speak to you that way, and she responded by asking what you'd do if she chose not to stop. These are the things you need to consider. That's why you need to understand how to use effective boundaries. Boundaries are put in place to protect your feelings. If the other person chooses to ignore your boundary, then you need to have a plan of action. In other words, if you privately tell your WW that you will no longer tolerate her passive-aggressive, snide, disrespectful comments in front of the children........what action are you prepared to take, if she challenges you? I can guarantee she'll challenge you the first time, just to see if you have the guts to stand up to her. There is no point in speaking a boundary, if you aren't prepared to back it up with action.

If you have not read on the subject of personal & relationship boundaries, please do it ASAP. Maybe you can draw us a picture of her saying things you felt were passive-aggressive, smug or dismissive? Pl,ease don't even mention the word "boundary" until you have it down solid and know what you're doing. Don't be like some men in past times, who dug a deeper hole b/c they didn't do their homework.


The fear of arguing in front of my kids is what has driven me to mostly just ignore her comments. And, I don't have consequences set up if she violates my internal boundaries on this type of disrepect. I have discussed this with her before in private and told her I wouldn't tolerate her low-key putdowns or emasculating types of comments. But, I didn't offer any real consequences. Do you have any recommended reading on the personal/relationship boundaries? Right now, we don't have any real relationship to speak of other than essentially co-parenting from the same house.

Quote
2) W may also think I’m being reckless or spiteful – i.e. going out to bars and drinking. She knows I go to the gym almost every weeknight. But, the weekend nights, she really has no idea what I’ve been up to.


Originally Posted by sandi2
She's not worried about her nice-guy H being reckless, going out to bars and drinking.


I should qualify this - I'm more concerned that she will paint a bad picture of me to others (family, friends) because she doesn't know what I'm doing at night. I've already witnessed what she's capable of saying when I'm right there in the room. She knows I'm extremely suspicious of her behavior and has been on the defense (or attack) ever since I confronted her about it months ago. My mysterious nighttime GAL'ing might be more ammunition for her to paint a bad picture of me.

As always, thanks again for all your insights, they're really appreciated! I will try to get some better examples of her disrespectful behavior towards me.


Last edited by RVM; 03/06/20 08:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by RVM
I should qualify this - I'm more concerned that she will paint a bad picture of me to others (family, friends) because she doesn't know what I'm doing at night. I've already witnessed what she's capable of saying when I'm right there in the room. She knows I'm extremely suspicious of her behavior and has been on the defense (or attack) ever since I confronted her about it months ago. My mysterious nighttime GAL'ing might be more ammunition for her to paint a bad picture of me.


For example - and this has happened a couple of times - when I've told her I'm going out with no details, she's directly asked me:

"what do I tell the kids because they'll ask?" or

"what do we tell our friends, they'll ask?" (if in a situation when we were all invited to friend's)

Since some friends sense there's issues in our R and likely my oldest D does to - I'm a bit sensitive to how I may be portrayed in this sitch. These people don't know about her awful behavior, yet.


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Originally Posted by RVM
she's directly asked me:

"what do I tell the kids because they'll ask?" or

"what do we tell our friends, they'll ask?" (if in a situation when we were all invited to friend's)

Since some friends sense there's issues in our R and likely my oldest D does to - I'm a bit sensitive to how I may be portrayed in this sitch. These people don't know about her awful behavior, yet.

Why give someone who portrays you negatively, the responsibility and control of relaying your message? "I'll talk to D", "I already talked to D", "I'll talk to our friend", "I already talked to our friend." If in some case the message doesn't matter to you at all--she's like "What do I tell the Barista?", then just "Up to you. :)"

It is kinda important that your D feel comfortable with your comings and goings. When I go somewhere when my D is home, she knows how to reach me, and when I'll return. She often asks where I'm going.

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