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Ten years ago, I started collection and posting links to wise words from the Divorce Busting forums while reading. All the threads are linked below. I am not spending as much time these days reading, but others are free to post quotes here as well. If you do, please put a link to the original thread so others can dig deeper if needed.

Best regards, R2C

Quotes found on Divorcebusting (9)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (8)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (7)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (6)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (5)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (4)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (3)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (2)
Quotes found on Divorcebusting (1)


Link to a recap of my sitch and books I found useful


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879333#Post2879333

Originally Posted by Steve85
If you are getting similar advice from a lot of the vets here, I'd heed it. There will always be desenters. Some do it because they really believe it. Some just like to troll because, I don't know, they have nothing better to do.


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Thank you for starting a new thread.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Originally Posted by Oceangrl
The best apology is changed behavior.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879984#Post2879984

Originally Posted by LH19


One of the best quotes I read on here was from Accuray who said he read The only way any healthy relationship can last long term is that both partners are willing to walk away if their needs aren’t being met and both partners have to believe the other is willing to walk.

Something to think about.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879993#Post2879993

Originally Posted by Steve85


One thing I do want to challenge you on. I see you've claimed that you've tried everything in trying to improve. That is a dangerous attitude. We can ALWAYS improve. Self-improvement is not an item on a checklist that we check off. "Okay, done with that!" It is something we are constantly working. And another aspect is the motivation behind our self-improvement. If we are just self-improving to see if our spouse responds favorably, or to see if frequency of sex will go up, or for any other reason than wanting to be the best self we can be, well then we probably haven't really improved, have we?

So work on you......FOR YOU. Not for her. If she recognizes the positive changes and improves herself, great. But the goal should be to be the best you can be! Regardless of how others respond.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2880517#Post2880517

Quote
I noticed W took off her wedding ring and has never worn it ever since the BD. I still wear mine occasionally, should I keep my ring on? Or does it send the wrong signal to W?
Originally Posted by Steve85
I believe that as long as you are married, you wear your ring. Regardless of what the WAS does. I have lots of reasons for this, and will be glad to share them if you are interested.

Note, not everyone here agrees. So there is no consensus on this. For me it boils down to personal integrity. And you should never give up your personal integrity just because she has.



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2880704#Post2880704

Originally Posted by scout12
Gerda was absolutely right in saying it is pointless to try and dialogue with him. Not because he is in a fog, or hurting, or confused, but because THIS IS WHO HE IS at his core, and he has shown no willingness to examine HIS contribution to the marriage failure.

Originally Posted by Gerda
Scout, I just want to comment on your quotin' me since I know that a lot of people read these things long after posters move off from the forum and I think we need to make sure that we all have left the right breadcrumbs in the dark MLC forest.

I do believe it is pointless to dialogue with the MLCer. I wish I had understood that long before, and I keep looking for ways to say it in a way that a new LBS will be able to understand, because it takes most of us so long to get to that point. I understand now that it is the only way to stay sane, because you train yourself to stop hearing the lies and to focus on your own life by having no contact or as little contact as possible.

But I say that in the service of restoration.

I wanted to be clear that I wrote that as a way to offer a tip for someone who does want to stand. I never understood what dropping the rope and going no contact really meant, all these years. I thought I was letting go, and I most certainly did build a life for myself during my H's MLC. But I continued to engage with far too much of his insanity even though compared to a marriage, I rarely engaged him at all. It was hard because we had a business together and lived together. But I didn't set the right boundaries. I never understood that a loving boundary actually is as much no contact as is possible within whatever your circumstances are. I always thought I had to keep being loving and open as a way of showing him the door was open. Now I know he can't even see that there is a door there. If he ever comes out of MLC, he will see the door, whether it's open or shut. And even if it's shut, a truly woken-up MLCer will knock on it. So there is no point in standing near the door, watching the door, painting the door yellow or boarding up the door. The MLCer can't see the door or you behind it.

But for those who want to stand, to outlast the MLC, I just want to say that no contact, an end to engagement, is loving too.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2880866#Post2880866

Originally Posted by oceangrl
This morning, I felt like not getting out of bed. Limbo, being unwanted for so long, is hard. It is draining and exhausting. But I sat and looked out the window and started "talking" to myself. That I would be okay. That I will be happy. That I cannot see my worth based on his view of my worth. That I cannot validate myself through him. I try to use words like "empower" and "opportunity." I pray a lot. It is a constant fight right now. It's nice to see here that I am not the only one doing the same thing every day, although I am sorry we all have to do it!


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Original post

Originally Posted by AnotherStander


OK well that's a step in the right direction but keep in mind that validating is NOT accepting blame. It is seeking to understand and acknowledge her feelings. It's not agreeing/ disagreeing/ negotiating/ reasoning/ explaining/ etc. So she says she doesn't think you can stop your controlling behavior, you say something like "you sound frustrated about this, is that how you feel?" (seek to understand her feelings) "Yes it's been very frustrating and it makes me angry, it's been going on for years." "I hear you saying you've been frustrated and angry (mirror back) for years, I am sorry you've been struggling with this." Note that you're not saying you're sorry that you did something wrong, you are simply acknowledging her feelings and allowing her to have them. Most husbands spend so much time trying to argue and convince their wife their feelings are wrong that validation will seem like a shocking change to the wife and she won't trust that it's genuine for quite some time.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2881491#Post2881491

Originally Posted by FlySolo
There was a poster who collected all the stories which ended up in R (I can't remember who though).
Originally Posted by AnotherStander


I've tried to keep a list but unfortunately I haven't been very diligent about it so the list is nowhere near complete. These are just sitches I've read, they don't include the recon stories outside of the forums that Michele hears about.

Hoosjim
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2861030&page=5

Adam04
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2880774&#Post2880774

Miler
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...at&Number=2864381&gonew=1#UNREAD

Jim1234 (wife wants to recon):
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...&Number=2815862&nt=10&page=9

Joe2017 (not yet success but shows how a WAS can turn around):
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...at&Number=2775397&gonew=1#UNREAD

Steve85
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...at&Number=2820005&gonew=1#UNREAD

PsySara
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2821853&#Post2821853

Hero18
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2821032&page=7

BinNC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...at&Number=2812820&gonew=1#UNREAD

endofit
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...at&Number=2788874&gonew=1#UNREAD

Benito
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=60874&Number=2761432#Post2761432

Txhubby
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=60640&Number=2748478#Post2748478

Joejoe1
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2758010#Post2758010

dday101798
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1781811&page=74

Notlikingthis
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2515648&page=1

upside
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2260170#Post2260170

Freckle
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2735806#Post2735806


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2881889#Post2881889


Originally Posted by oceangrl
I have been working hard on this. And when I get discouraged and hopeless, instead of pursuing him and wanting reassurances like the sad sack I used to be, I go in the bathroom and pull myself together instead. I take a minute and breathe and cry if i need to. Sometimes I've done jumping jacks haha.

I also don't change in front of him. I change in the bathroom. It just helps me feel more empowered and more mysterious. He doesn't get that part of me right now. No cake and eating it too, buddy. He has told me he has noticed I am a different person in the past year. I have been working on my 180s. But before this site I was still pursuing and pressuring so he knew I was always an option. Needy and desperate fit me to the core.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2881915#Post2881915

Originally Posted by LITB
One of the most common and damaging emotions that we experience when we find ourselves in these situations, is FEAR. I’ll share some of the things that I feared and the consequences of those fears while I navigated through my sitch.

Perhaps you will find this to be helpful.

Below are things that I feared.
-Pushing my W further away(The reality was that she was pushed far enough to BD me)
-The Unknown
-Embarrassment
-Being Judged
-Someone else raising my children
-Financially Supporting my W to live her fantasy
-Raising my children on my own without any support
-financial struggle
-Losing a large amount of my retirement
-legal cost

The consequences of fear/Negative Effects of Fear
-I was progressively incapacitated(paralyzed).
-Poor decision making/appeasement (My biggest regret)
-Lack of confidence
-Worry/Anxiety
-Health Issues
-Regret/Guilt

All the above became more costly when something wasn’t done about it. Especially don’t appease. You will get steamrolled. The WAS will likely use the threat of legal action or divorce as a tool to keep you in fear and their appeasement. That is the biggest reason to seek legal advice. Once you know your rights, you have just armed yourself with important knowledge. I can assure you, it will alleviate some unnecessary anxiety.

It is like a bully dynamic. Until the person getting bullied takes a stand, it will continue, and your fear will allow you to be taken advantage of. Ultimately, it will slow down your growth and your healing.

So, head up, shoulders back. Start making the best of life. Don’t be afraid of making mistakes along your journey. Trying to be perfect is all too consuming. Besides, the most beautiful and rewarding parts are life, can be the result of overcoming some of the most challenging obstacles.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2881803#Post2881803

Quote
I know MC has mixed reviews on here but we spoke about this last night and she is keen to book this is asap, I don't know if is this a good thing or a bad thing.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander

It's definitely a bad thing. It is her way to escalate separation/ divorce using a 3rd party "professional" as a shield. Here is how it will play out:

C- so can anything be done to save this?
You- YES I am willing to do anything!
C- Great, what about you?
W- No, I'm done, it's over and I want him to know and accept it.
C- Aaaah, well it sounds like perhaps a trial separation would be a good idea so the two of you can think about things.
W- YES YES YES how soon can we do this? When can he move out?

Look at the timeline in my signature. I've been here a while. I've seen ^^^this^^^ happen more times than I can count, including in my own sitch.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2881803#Post2881803

Originally Posted by AnotherStander


So you want to force what you want on her? THAT NEEDS TO STOP RIGHT AWAY. How much do you love her? Enough to give her what she wants? Enough to let her go? Enough to put her needs ahead of yours? YOU want to save the M. SHE DOES NOT. You need to set your wants aside and start respecting hers. Why? Because if you don't fight her on this then she'll stop seeing you as the pressuring, manipulating, controlling bad guy that she desperately needs out of her life. And THAT is what it will take to possibly change her mind about you and about the M.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2882131#Post2882131

Originally Posted by Cest_Moi
Went to order the DR book and realized I forgot my wallet at home, but it's in my cart!! I don't want to order it through amazon since we share an account and I don't want him to see

Originally Posted by Cest_Moi
My DB book is hidden under my bed and I am only accessing this from a laptop he doesn't have the password for and has never once used.
I'm not even going to log onto this site with my phone.
I ordered the book and then archived the order with amazon (Thank you Google!)
I also created a filter on the junk email we use for amazon so that any emails with amazon in it will be redirected to my personal email


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2581617

Originally Posted by Mozza


DBing
I accept responsibility for what I did in the M, by being too critical and dismissive of my W's feelings. I understand that my W was looking for something she wasn't finding in the M. I sometimes understand why she left, since she was miserable, and sometimes think leaving was too strong a reaction for the situation. I tend to blame her flight reflex and unrealistic expectations for love and family life. My heart wants to R, but my head tells me that it's a pattern with her and that I better not expose myself to it again.

My stance at the moment is to let her live her life while I reflect and try to focus on me. In January, I told her I didn't want to interact beyond the practicalities of the kids because I need to move on. I'm good at being silent and distant so the "no pursuing" rule is easy to apply for me. After nine months and little contact, I can say that detachment is taking hold. I see a therapist since BD and I've also started dating in May (8 months after BD).
_________________________________________________

SUCCESS STORIES
I update this list every time I start a new thread. Please make suggestions, especially with links to threads. I wish we had room in our profile to tell our story so that the vets and other successes could give us a quick summary.

MLC Success Stories

Reconciliation
Thornton (M) - May to July 2014
Train (W) - Reconciled in 2014
Labug (W) - March 2011 to December 2013
HopefulStill - reconciled in 2012
minkerman (M) - Reconciled after 4 months in 2008
25yearsmlc (W) - 2005 to August 2008
FaithfulH - Reconciled in 2007
sandi2 (W) - 2007
Coach (M) - 2008
MrBond (M) - Used to have another screen name
Starsky309 (M) - (ChocolateEyes, Puppy Dog Tails) - Aug 2007 to 2009. Exposed his W's A.
Butterflymom127 and FavoriteWeirdo - Thread
LITB (M) - December 2010 to May 2012
Raine (W) - Dec 2012 to November 2014 (MLC)
ReachingHigher (W) - April 2012 to May 2014
SM34 (M) - December 2012 to December 2013
AliSuddenly (W) - H left in January 2008, moved out, had OW. Piecing May 2009, married July 2010
kalni (W) - BD on November 2007, piecing in January 2010
Angel61 (W)- BD June 2010, H had EA, Retrouvailles November 2011

Piecing as of 2014-2015
(newly added) Kramer (M)
(newly added) edz (M)
Jefe (M)
T0324 (W) H leaves in Febr 2014, filed for D, had OW, piecing fails in Aug 2014, piecing again in Mar 2015
Crimson (M)
Heart14 (W) Signs 2014-02, DB 2014-07, Piecing since 2014-07
Nitty - BD in December 2013, piecing as of September 2014

Letting go
Love2Surf (M) - March 2010 to 2012
pearlharbr (W) - November 2008 to June 2010 (19 months)
Snow White (W) - 2008-2009. Let go when her H wanted back in.
Drew (M) - 2008
BigMac (M) - June 2014 to February 2015 WAW offered R at the last minute and he turned it down
Underdog (Betsey) D final in May 2005

Resources
Validation | Boundaries | Detachment | Dance of Pursuit and Distance | Acronyms | Stockdale paradox
The sandi2 collection: The Wayward Wife | It takes time | Letting back too easy
Wonka: The Starter kit / Post-BD plan of action


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551733#Post2551733

Originally Posted by Wonka
Sandi2,

Thank you for articulating the main point for LBHs whose WAW is in an Affair: stop being such a wet noodle and grab the bull by the horns from the get-go. It starts with dropping the rabid FEAR in you. Your WAW is a paper tigeress.

In summary, the action list should be something like this upon arriving at the DB forum in short order:

1-Keep DB to yourself and hide the DR book. You don't give away the playbook to the opponent. ERASE all browsing history on your computer.
2-LOSE YOUR FEAR of WAW. Reclaim your balls back from her purse.
3-Pull out the "not willing to live in an open M/no-OM boundary" script.
4-Stop sharing the same MBR with your WAW. You are not willing to share her with another man. Tell WAW that "you have decided that you prefer she sleep in another room."
5-Sex? Forget it. It all stops right now. Same as above.
6-DO NOT have convos with WAW about the OM. You are not her gay boyfriend. You are her H. Do not acknowledge or speak about the OM at all.
7- Move all of your FINANCIAL assets into a new banking account with just your name on it (no more joint $$ with WAW) and cancel joint credit cards. Be sure to inform bank officers that your WAW is not to get a loan or open a card with your name ...they must call you first to alert of this.
8-Cut off all joint cell phone plans (you are not financing W's affair by paying for her smartphone to continue conducting her A on the family's money)
9-Only pay expenses related to children (if you have any) and other praticalities
10-Consult with a Lawyer to know your rights. Go in for an informational meeting with 3 to 4 attorneys. Keep it to yourself. Knowledge is power.
11-Cancel all MC sessions. It is ineffective as long as your WAW is in an A and just going there for appearance's sake to claim that "they tried." Pshaw!
12-Don't drive or pick her up from the airport. She can figure this out herself.
12-Make your own GAL plans. Don't drop them if WAW cries to you that she needs you to "babysit" the kids or threatens you.
13-Stop going into an overdrive cleaning the house or doing the laundry. Makes you look like the gay housekeeper from La Cage aux Folles movie.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2881491#Post2881491

Originally Posted by FlySolo
There was a poster who collected all the stories which ended up in R (I can't remember who though).
Originally Posted by AnotherStander


I've tried to keep a list but unfortunately I haven't been very diligent about it so the list is nowhere near complete. These are just sitches I've read, they don't include the recon stories outside of the forums that Michele hears about.

Hoosjim
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2861030&page=5

Adam04
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2880774&#Post2880774

Miler
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...at&Number=2864381&gonew=1#UNREAD

Jim1234 (wife wants to recon):
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...&Number=2815862&nt=10&page=9

Joe2017 (not yet success but shows how a WAS can turn around):
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...at&Number=2775397&gonew=1#UNREAD

Steve85
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...at&Number=2820005&gonew=1#UNREAD

PsySara
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2821853&#Post2821853

Hero18
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Vets, based on your experience, what percentage of couples do reconcile ?

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Jason,

That is a tough question to answer without specifics.

Has your W checked out already?

What kind of a timeframe are you talking about?

If your W has checked out you have about a 5% chance of turning it around in less then 2 years. Maybe as high as 20% if you DB almost flawlessly.

From 2-5 years you probably have a 50% chance to get another shot if you do the work and make the changes. Most likely by then you won't be interested.

Please tell us your story.

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Originally Posted by CT1118

All of you reading Sandi's posts, Cadet's, Job's etc. listen to them...not to be better at your marriage, but to become a better you. Only by knowing how to improve the relationship you have been in the longest, the one with yourself, can your relationship with others reach its fullest potential. I am a better father, professional, and partner to my former WAS from having listened. These hard lessons we learn here come with heartfelt results.


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Originally Posted by Caligirl
I wanted to give an update a few months into piecing. What I have learned :

When someone is truly ready to reconcile you will know . I heard this many times and a few times I thought H was heading that way then he would run back into craziness . You will know when actions are solid . They stay solid.

Let go of every possible outcome . The good , the bad or the unknown . You can’t predict what is going to happen . You can only control you and how you handle you . This was a hard balance “the unknown “

GAL - this for me is still one of my number ones . There are times you just have to take a break and find you . GAL does not have to be sky diving or running a marathon . Sometimes I just go shopping alone and buy house items to decorate . It what I like to do .


Take most of the advice on here not all . I really took time to process what others said to do and applied what worked .


Do not be scared to be you . Be the best you . I spent close to a year walking on egg shells in my house before my husband walked out the door . Why ? Because I didn’t want him to walk out the door . Guess what he did anyway . He also walked back in it because I stopped walking on eggshells and was just a better version of me . I never once asked him to come home . I did make him ask to move home .

So a few months in I can say I do not know how much he has changed but more how I have changed . Minimal disagreements between us but mainly because I have learned not to fuel anything . It’s not that I am a punching bag or he can walk all over me either . I learned to accept some of him . He likes more time out with his friends ... the more I pay no mind to it an odd thing happened he actually invites me to go now . Sometimes I go , sometimes I don’t.

The hurt doesn’t just go away . It’s still there . H has apologized for it more than once it’s just going to take some time . It does get better but sometimes I still look at him and think you destroyed me and now look .

The fog does clear sometimes . My H laid in bed and said I never thought I could be so happy with my wife months ago .

I still plan things without H . Funny thing now is he tends to invite himself . I planned a vacation without him just me and the kids . I have done this before not unusual. He looked at me and said I really wanna go . After I picked myself up off the floor , I actually laughed at him . When he moved out he berated me saying how he hates the vacations I dragged him on for years . He listed every single one in rage .I made sure to point that one out .

I’m not on here as much as I would like but this site didn’t save my marriage . It saved me which then played a big part in saving my marriage . It made me strong . My own person . It was my journal with tears in my eyes some nights .



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Just posting a reply to bump this thread back up because it's so valuable.


the best apology is changed behavior.
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R2C,

what is that link for the daily stoic? Google qmnsomethingsomething... I can't find that post you made a few weeks ago but I'd like to.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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It was the one where he discuss amor fati and memento mori.


H 34
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BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
It was the one where he discuss amor fati and memento mori.


If you look a couple pages down, it's in the thread I posted about "What DB approaches are right for me?"


the best apology is changed behavior.
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Originally Posted by oceangrl
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
It was the one where he discuss amor fati and memento mori.


If you look a couple pages down, it's in the thread I posted about "What DB approaches are right for me?"


https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2880699#Post2880699

Last edited by job; 02/02/20 03:39 PM. Reason: Removed referenced outside link title not related to DB

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Originally Posted by hoosjim


And let me add: IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO DB!!! Or even to implement any particular step/concept of DB.

You want to know what MY low point/nadir/ball-less point was? I'll tell you: Desperate as I was to get back in her good graces, and also completely willingly accepting of the advice of my well-meaning (but woefully misinformed and misguided) buddy... I basically sat my WW down for a relationship talk and, in order to avoid "pressuring" her and in fact take as much pressure as possible off her, told her that I would "release her from her wedding vows." YIKES! This same friend of mine had done just that and said it was "freeing" for him and "opened a new chapter in his relationship with his W" and urged me to do the same! (For those of you who followed my sitch in detail, this is my friend who was a GAL champ, but fell flat on his face in terms of demanding the respect of and properly dealing with his own WW, which WW also happened to be MY ww's bff--- and boy did it blow up in his face: His WW ended up running off with HIS best friend to live on the beach over 1000 miles away and ended up with primary custody of the kids to boot.) At any rate, this "loving, non-controlling" move of mine did NOTHING for my MR. Thankfully, it was not long after that I found this site (or more accurately "returned to" it after my first visit proved confusing and I failed to find the proper "newcomer's" forum) and started to get things turned around. I somewhat shortly thereafter began setting boundaries, one of which was that I would not live in an open MR or share my W with another man. My WW's first objection to this was "but you released me from our vows!" To which I replied: 1) "Such a thing is beyond my power to do and fully in the hands of the almighty" (she is Catholic) and 2) "I wasn't thinking clearly in the immediate aftermath of your betrayal but I am thinking MUCH more clearly, now, thank you!" And that shut that down right damned quick. And we eventually reconciled... but only after she had fully regained her respect for me which required not only the above but, eventually, me completely cutting the cord and walking away from the relationship.

So, look... if I can recover from telling my W she is released from her vows, then you can sure as heck recover from telling her you are leaving the MBR.

Get it together, man! We're all pulling for you but you've got to do the heavy lifting yourself.


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Originally Posted by 25yearsmlc
If you are making progress as a man, that is progress. I doubt the marriage could make real progress without someone moving forward on their own, first.

And you are.

It's hard to measure progress when it's you, other than bigger gaps between anxious moments, and maybe not as intense. And it's not linear.

I have said that ^^ a million times but it's really sinking in more now. We turn corners and then realize there is another corner to get past, b/c this really truly is a marathon.

But it's not endless, and at some point you'll look around and see how far you've come.

Keep at it.


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Originally Posted by wayfarer
I just want to mention a few things: this is your journey. You want to throw in the towel you do that. You want to stand do that. But it seems like you're still on the fence. When you have a decision, you'll know it. It's pretty clear detaching is not working for you, or you're not working it, his behavior should not have this much control over your day to day emotions, no matter how poor his behavior is. I think more IC is a good idea but you'll have to make it a point to focus on detachment skills and ways to combat your anxiety over this. Also, you may also want to ask your IC about situational depression and anxiety and if you should be talking to your GP or a psychiatrist about maybe getting some help during this time in your life.

I am not perfect at this. None of us are, but you seem to really be struggling keeping your emotions in check with him. You can't make a solid decision from a place of chaos. And you can't get out of chaos if you keep obsessing over him and his behavior. He's a garbage person right now. You can't expect him to behave like a saint and lament in your unmet expectations. You wouldn't expect a known thief to not take your things. You can't expect anything from him this includes model husband and father behavior. No matter how much you are owed and deserve that. In fact you shouldn't have any expectations regarding him and his behavior. You need to start living in the space that one day he's just not going to come home any more. The whole point of DBing is getting the LBS to a point where they can live life with or with out their spouse. So they can be a whole healthy person who can lead and control an R with a not so whole healthy person, or move the hell on. If you're not ready to make the decision to stick this out or end this then you need to be ready to at least live your life AS IF he's never going to be him again, AS IF he is no longer a member of that family, AS IF you are over him and his BS behavior. Your mental health can't take staying on this roller coaster. Your health can't take you at this stress level forever. Your kids need an anchor. You need peace. Take it, make it, because your H will never in a million years give it to you.


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Originally Posted by wayfarer


I can't tell you how to live your life. You gotta do what's right for you but please hear me out. I have zero judgement on casual sex. Zero judgement on you doing you as far as it comes to intimacy. Zero judgments on separated folks / divorced folks, banging one out here and there. But for me, my husband isn't casual sex. While i understand In my sitch I have an apparent OW so things are a bit different. And trust me when I say I would give anything to hate F my husband right now. He hasn't touched me since November. But... and this is a big but, the day I excused him from our bed and it became MY bed was the day the muffin shop closed until further notice. That's the love of my life who looked me in the eye and said our marriage is unsalvageable. His love for me is gone. There is no way in hell the person who devastated me like that is getting in my bed when he wants, much less between my thighs. Maybe some day when he's out of the house and he sends an "are you up?" text to me late on a Friday night, months from now and I'm desperate for touch, there's a remote chance that can be a thing. But there is no way I'm letting him live both his married life and his single life under the roof we share AND give it up. He's already getting the comfort of our kids, and a house that's always stocked with food and toilet paper, he's not getting more from me. He wants that single life so bad that includes that single life WORK to get laid. Easy, simple, I know exactly what you like, married sex is for married men that wanna be married. I get that you have needs. Dear lord in heaven, I get the needs part. But you need to really ask yourself if filling that need is worth your mental health. And to be honest possibly your physical health, because he is gone a lot, there are things you might not know.


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Originally Posted by wayfarer
I’ve made a plan. I’m going to a rage room and breaking some crap. And then polishing off a bottle of wine in the bathtub and going to bed.


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Originally Posted by wayfarer
True detachment is the hardest thing ever. I can fake the hell out of it. There are days, and more in a row every week, where I really am detached. But really getting my head and heart out of his wake has been a struggle. ...I deactivated my facebook since I couldn't even stop myself when I took him out of my feed. I've talked to him about paying for his own phone since I'm not really feeling like bank rolling his way of communicating to his OW. I know logically and in my gut where he's going and what he's doing when he does it. But it's so much easier to say eff it. You do you I'm going to do me when I don't have to look the evidence in the eye so to speak. And my worst days are the day after I see the old H peeking out. Because I know it's just a fallacy right now.

But to your point of why should you put up with this and accept it; is what my H (and your H) doing abso-effing-lutely pathetic and soooo disrespectful? Hell yes. Before DBing I told him exactly how I felt about that. He got the tears, and begging at first and then a WHOLE lot of anger. He knows he's being a terrible person. He just doesn't care. So there's no point in arguing. There's no point at all in drawing a line in the sand. I've tried and I learned. He'll run right through it while making eye contact with me and then lie about it. But I've only been at this a couple of months. I found out about the affair in November. He BD'd in December. You've been at this a long time. You have every right to throw in the towel, but I agree with the lot of the other posters. You have to do that from a place of peace. You need to be in the head space of ambivalence first, then you know your choice is a choice from a place of logic not emotion. When you're really done, you know. I know this from my daughter's father not my current H. It was like "oh, ok. well we're done then." No anger. No sadness. Just ok, we're done. I'm done. This is done. You having your heart and emotions so rocked by him means you're not there. You're not done. So you gotta keep DBing and working on really detaching. We got this.


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Originally Posted by sandi2

The next important, and I think the most misunderstood technique, is DB detaching. The link in the homework is pretty wordy, and if I can remember, I'll send a copy of DB detaching that is a shorter form, to get you started. I think it is hard for the newcomer b/c they are usually the ones who want to save the MR, and their emotions have been traumatized. IMHO, it seems most LBS's have difficulty maintaining even keel. Most LBS's will dramatically shift too far up or down, east or west, left or right. It's like driving a vehicle on the street. You have to stay between the lines, or take a big chance of making things much, much worse.

Your H has made it pretty clear that he is not interested in you or the MR. The more you try to persuade him to see things differently, or the more you try to vocally convince him the M can change for the better..........the more he is going to resist, He is in an emotional battle with life. He will drag down and/or fight anyone who tries to tell him what he doesn't want to hear. He cannot learn through hearing words. He has to learn visually and experiential. Anything else is useless. This is one reason facing the consequences from dishonoring boundaries works well. Boundaries are not an opportunity to lecture. He is tone deaf. He can't read anything you might suggest, nor watch a video or listen to a tape about marriage. Those features have died. smirk Therefore, you have to discipline yourself when you have the desire to explode on him, or try once more to just have a relationship discussion. It only sets you back to square one.

I said all that ^^^^^ to introduce the action I believe works best. Based on the mindset he has, he sees you as another source of emotional pressure. Maybe he sees it as the main source of unhappiness, or whatever. He sees himself happier if only he were free. His life is passing by too quickly and he will resist anything that gets in his way of grabbing for the gusto that awaits him. Ugh! Unfortunately, that includes having other women. If he had high morals, they seem to be gone, and currently, he is suggesting an open M. That tells me he is willing to put not only his M, but his W at risk......by inviting others to be intimate. mad He is so wrapped up in himself that he doesn't see anything else. He may have an unmet emotional need, but he is currently unwilling to "do the right thing" like a logical, sane adult. To cut to the chase, I am suggesting you become the dump-er, instead of the dump-ee. Let your attitude, GAL, personal attention, one-on-one time, home environment, family activity, etc., paint a picture for him. He sees he is losing his W of seven yrs. He no longer gets text messages from her throughout the day/night, checking in with him. If he wants to spend the night out, he has to get a babysitter, b/c his W is out getting her own life. He doesn't know what she's doing, b/c she doesn't care to share anything. In fact, there are several things about his W that tells him she is moving on. She doesn't ask him anything about his life, their MR, his future plans........nothing. She doesn't complain, preach, get revenge, nor act like a victim. He doesn't know what is going on in her head, but she looks and acts differently. He wonders if she wants a divorce. He wonders if he has lost her.

I can almost read your mind. "Isn't this exactly what he wants?" I can explain more, later. Just let me assure you that I am not telling you to do any action that goes against your personal belief system. I'm not telling you to do anything with revenge or hatred. You need to let him go. I mean, you behave as if you have emotionally let go of him. That's what he needs to feel. No pressure from you. Another thing you have to do is let go of the anger. Okay, so that will be tough, but don't show anger to him. You can be spunky, but not angry.

Got to close this long post. Hope I have not thrown too much into one post. If you have questions, please ask.




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Originally Posted by Steve85
Any way to make plans? Get a sitter for the kids, make plans. Then inform him something came up and you can't talk tonight. That will buy you time to study validation. To mentally and emotionally prepare.


Originally Posted by Steve85
Even statements like: "I do not think you should move out. Ever. But I can't stop you from doing so." Are better than saying "Yes I agree" to something that you do not agree to.



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Originally Posted by wayfarer
H just IM'd me at work asking when we're going to tell the girls about him and his daughter moving out and our divorce. When I said I'd rather not talk about this at work he kept pushing.
Originally Posted by Steve85

I would have continued to avoid the messages.

"Sorry, very busy, can't discuss now." Then ignore him.

Tonight, when he talks, listen and validate. Study the validation thread. Remember, you can deflect too when he tries to pin you down.

"So when are we telling the girls I am moving out?"

"I really need some time to consider everything, this is a lot to think about."

Listen. Validate. Deflect. Do not get into back and forths. Do not get into specifics.


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Originally Posted by Cadet

Its your job to make things exciting for yourself.

Its not your job to make her feel happy - that is up to her.

We are all responsible for our own happiness and mental health.

We can only change ourselves not others.

Make yourself into a person only a fool would leave.


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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Learn to validate better, my favorites:

"I get that"
"I can understand that"
"I'd be upset too"
"That's really annoying/frustrating/etc"

Read the validation thread often, tailor it to your style:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566


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Last edited by job; 02/02/20 03:37 PM. Reason: Removed outside reference link title not related to DB

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Originally Posted by LH19
Until you are able to be happy alone you are always going to be a prisoner in a relationship.

Focus on kids, work, exercising and self help.



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883035#Post2883035

Originally Posted by DS9
Hi all,

I recently was inspired by DnJ to write a poem on his thread, and threatened to write another one if I took inspiration.

I'm a little rusty as I last wrote substantive poetry in high school over 25 years ago, apart from the short poems of love I used to write for my XW. Maybe I'll take it up again for GAL

I hope this one inspires us to remember that whilst the world crashes around us, the centre of our world is not what we thought, despite what we once felt it to be...


The winds of change echoed overhead,
Faint rustling in the trees.
We had some disquiet about the wind,
But misheard what it said.

As the wind slowly gathered pace,
We held their hand more tightly.
Signs of love emanated still, so we thought quite rightly.
That our love for them, would conquer all -
this wind is just a phase -
a passing breeze,
among the trees,
and our tree will never fall.

So we walk the path we've walked before,
Continuing arm in arm.
The wind picks pace, we shield their face,
never contemplating harm.

But trees with rotten cores do fall,
And love does not shield the heart,
Where in the moment of splitting wood,
everything falls apart.

We turn to look at our true love,
But our true love isn't there.
A different path they've taken,
whilst we were unaware.

The lightning struck whilst we had faith,
In a love that seemed eternal.
Vows of love mean nothing now,
be damned to hell, eternal.

But as we fall unto our knees,
Cursing at the wind,
We fail to see, what seems to be,
the forest for the trees.

See the forest lives, despite the tree,
'pon which we carved our love,
The splintered remains of promised vows,
crashed low from high above.

Yet as we labour with broken wood,
Whilst our true love wanders free.
We glimpse a truth eternal -
Our forest is not the tree.

Cheers, DS


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883158#Post2883158


Originally Posted by Steve85
Focus on what you can control. Hint: It is you! Married. D'd. None of that changes that you get control over you! Life is 10% what happens to us and 90% how we react and our attitude towards it. So let your attitude be that you are awesome, great, phenomenal even, no matter what OTHER people decide. See what I said above. Once you get to the place where you realize that you are going to make your life great, no matter what, then you will be able to move past the hurt and the pain.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883178#Post2883178


Originally Posted by rooskers
DS I like the poem and found it interesting how you used a tree to represent your relationship. I used something similar with D14 about our family being a forest and D14 said "she burned the entire forest to the ground and it is gone." I told her the death of one forest is the nutrients and soil for a new one.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883290#Post2883290


Originally Posted by DS9
One of the excellent things about this forum is it allows you to come here with ongoing issues and seek guidance before you take action. I would recommend actively seeking advice here before you plan to do anything if you are concerned.

Even something as seemingly minor as that email your XW sent and you responded to. I think its better to come and get advice beforehand, than to come after and say this is what happened and this is what I did, especially when things are early and you're getting the hang of DB.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883308#Post2883308

Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Im in a similar boat with the whole contact/no contact thing. I think a lot of us are, because despite the erosion of trust and breakdown of communications, we want to still keep giving small chances to see if our humor, our GAL, our healing, and our demeanor starts to evoke just a little vulnerability in the other person.

It kind of feels like a game of give and take where at moments its very business like, and other moments where the X will ask inquisitive questions about you, about your family, about what is going on in your current life, where they offer nothing about there's and their changes, but want to know what's going on with you. You have to gauge it on the fly every single time. They offer nothing. You give them nothing. They offer you a little something you give them a little something. Its going to go back and forth and feel like a game after months and months of not communicating, only communicating on child or business related stuff, them opening up a little, then retreating and you doing the same. I would think there is nothing attractive about being guarded on both parties, but if they pull away, you should pull away harder, if they cone a little closer then you do the same.

I don't know how effective all this is in the long run, but on one hand you want to show your best self that is moving forward, doing good, focused, and on center. On the other hand. They're business is none of yours and vice versa. The person that used to miss us is no longer attracted to us in that sense. Essentially you don't need to be married, you don't need a relationship, you don't need another person to do the things you want to do or to be happy, you don't need another person in your life to have a good one. You just need... Well? You....

The fact that our SO has gone through great lengths and measure to somewhat remove us, but yet still keep us in their lives goes to show ITS ALL ABOUT THEM, THEIR PERCEPTIONS, THEIR FEELINGS, THEIR WANTS AND NEEDS, THEIR DESIRES, AND THEIR LIVES. Its short sighted. They are most likely thinking 5 years out at best, and willing to take a chance based off of their current experiences, feelings, plans, and fantasies. Doesn't matter if its another lover, traveling like it was Eat Love Pray, a few wellness and yoga classes, or whatever else they GAL with or seek. They are willing to take a chance for a new life without us. There is absolutely nothing we can do to control, act, or manipulate the situation, but be patient, focus on ourselves, regroup, and rebuild.

Even I myself in the midst of all this have been asking myself as of lately. "Where do I want to go without XW? What do I want to see? How do I want my life to look? Is there more freedom, choice, and experience and potential that life has to offer with or without them? Will my imagined experiences be similar to reality when I experience them?" Some of these situations work out for the better because people realize how much the other is improving, and realize the loss. Some don't and take a gamble with starting over. We marry on promises based on potential, and we also divorce based on that potential as well. A lot of people aren't patient enough to wait it out for 3 to 5 years. Feelings changes, trust changes, habits change, people change. There is nothing you can do, say, or think to sway another person to stay or recommit. The heart wants what it wants, when it wants it. Doesn't always make it right or sound. Just human nature I guess.

But the best thing you can do is position yourself to take daily action to improving yourself. Just keep in mind. Stand up for your self your morals and principles. Command respect. Be pleasant, and don't do anything to further worsen the situation. If something whether it be an email, text message, phone call, doesn't require a response. Let it go. Keep interactions to a minimum. Keep responses to a minimum. If someone wants out. Let them go. They have to return on their own volition, and we have no control over that. That is why the losses that they get, they must feel over 2-5 years. Because the grass could be greener to them once they experience it. Or? It may not be. They might come running back with bread crumbs to bait us. You might be done by then? Their loss, your gain. You re gain of peace, improvement, travel, growth, comfort, independence, etc. A lot of people aren't willing to tolerate the good the bad and the ugly in M, most just want the good. In their world everything is supposed to be on the up and up. That is why they walk. So let them live it and find out for themselves.



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883329#Post2883329


Originally Posted by Steve85
What I can tell you is that when you do the what seems counter-intuitive it has amazing effects on you the DBer. And sometimes it has positive effects on the WAS She EXPECTS you to respond to her. She EXPECTS you to try to hold on for dear life. When you do the opposite of that she will wonder why. Curiosity is big attractant. I can remember my W writing in her journals when we first met that she was so curious to get to know more about me. That is a powerful tool in our arsenal as LBSs. Trigger that curiousity. "Why haven't I heard from him?" "Why did he delete his FB account?" "Why hasn't he asked about the cats?" "Why does everyone say he is so busy?"



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2883337#Post2883337


Originally Posted by Wolfman
Listen to the vets on here. There advice is golden. At times like they said it will feel like the advice is wrong but it isn’t. It works I didn’t listen to the advice and I got divorced.
You spoke of depression. I never experienced it until my situation too. Get an IC, lean on people you trust and feel comfortable with, if you feel like crying, do it in a private space, let it out it actually helps. If necessary go on AD I did for 6 months just to get me on track. Use this place for advice or to vent. This forum has helped me so much. Just know you are not alone and from what it sounds like you did nothing wrong. This is her journey and only she can work though it.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884281#Post2884281

DETACHMENT

Originally Posted by AnotherStander


As for detachment, usually when someone becomes detached they don't talk about it, they just -are-. It comes through in their posts because they will go on and on about their GAL activities and their kids but you almost have to pry info out of them about their spouse. Usually when someone says they are detached it's more like they are trying to convince themselves that they are, that posting it will make it reality. So just be mindful that perhaps you're not as detached as you think just yet.... You may not be detached just yet. At some point I just quit worrying about my M and my XW and just got about the business of living life. After a while I no longer wanted to remain married, and I was the one that ended up pushing the D through. But I was in a place where there was no anger or resentment or anything attached to the decision, it just felt like it was time to move on.

I get the sense that you're not there yet, you're more of the attitude that you want to "punish" W for her poor behavior by depriving her of you and all you have to offer that you feel she doesn't appreciate. If you think this has any ring of truth to it then just give yourself more time. There's no urgency.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884343#Post2884343

RESPECT

Originally Posted by hoosjim
"Traditional Values are long gone and for instance "traditional" values between men and women don't really exist here anymore. We are equal in society."

Being "equal in society" has absolutely nothing to do with the importance, impact, and effectiveness of traditional gender roles. Men and men and women are women... Our bodies, brains, and biochemical makeup are fundamentally different and we react in different ways to different stimuli. Doesn't matter one whit if you don't believe in God because it is science... based on millions of years of evolution and the survival and mating instincts that are indelibly ingrained in each sex. Whether or not you believe that women can and should vote, run for public office and hold positions of political leadership, preside in the board room, and have every opportunity a man does in society is completely irrelevant in terms of how men and women treat each other socially, maritally, and sexually.

Each has a role to play and each is equally important, BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT ROLES. Repeat after me: MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT! Learn it. Live it. Love it. You can cry and scream and pontificate all you want about "Strong women" and "not being submissive to men" but, at the end of the day, it is quite simply ingrained in the female psyche and libido that she respects a strong man. Note that I did not say "controlling man" or "domineering man" (though some undoubtedly like that as well) but "Strong" man... as in confident, in control of himself, self-assured, capable in a pinch. I don't care what your society teaches you or what tripe you get on television or radio or whatever over there, but... if your W does not respect you she will not be attracted to you and you have zero... I repeat ZERO chance of saving your MR.

And part of that is not lying down for her when she is wayward and cheating on you. I applaud your plan to get back into the MBR by first making a room for your daughter... but I would not delay in doing it. Don't find excuses but ACT.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884359#Post2884359


Originally Posted by Steve85
He should give it until HE is ready to be divorced, with no emotional baggage, and can move on healthy and happy. He certainly shouldn't go file just to have an effect on her.

I don't get into time with these sitches. Some sitches should be resolved by the LBS saying "SEE YA" in 5 minutes. Some could take 5 years. Time is meaningless to me in these things. But clearly he is not ready to move on, and until he is....he shouldn't. I believe that to my core even if its been 40 years.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884361#Post2884361

Quote
If I stay in the house......I can't see any path to reconciliation.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

The aerial view is clearer than the ground view, but even from up here it is hard to tell if such a path exists. This is why you forge your own path using you brain and heart to do what is right, to be strong, to be patient, and to learn and grow.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884375#Post2884375

GAINING RESPECT

Originally Posted by Steve85
These sitches are not easy. DBing is tough. Detachment is hard. That is why we call it a process. Just keep working at it.

But please do not let her talk to you that way. "Are you white trash?" respond with "I refuse to discuss anything with you when you are being disrespectful."


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2880732#Post2880732

Keep Sitch Private

Originally Posted by ScottB
This is really tough to go through and I’m trying not to take all my friends and family through it so i appreciate you taking time to write.
Originally Posted by Steve85
yeah, I can understand that. In my sitch I told no one. There are good reasons for not sharing everything with people, especially if R is ever a possibility. Telling everyone how horrible she is, then trying to get them to accept her again if you get back together becomes problematic.


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Discipline is doing what you know you should do when you don't want to do it.


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Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Discipline is doing what you know you should do when you don't want to do it.


This!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2884973#Post2884973

Originally Posted by Wolfman
It’s not about my happiness all the time, sometimes it’s about doing what’s right. I read a quote the other day and it just keeps playing out in my head. The quote I read was, “Don’t do what’s easy, do what’s right.” I wish I would have done that early on in my situation when a lot of you were telling me what I should have done, but I didn’t because my way was the easy way not the right way.


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Originally Posted by Newbie20
Oh boy. Such a familiar story.

You've got a lot of reading and learning to do. Your husband is rewriting history to justify to himself what he is doing. Common. Mine did that too. I think they all do.

Your first move is to stay calm. Don't take any of what he said personally. Don't demean yourself by begging, pleading or trying to reason with him. If he wants to file for divorce, tell him you disagree but will not stop him, but are not going to do anything to help. And drag it out as long as you can. Get an attorney and tell the attorney you want him/her to slow walk and delay everything. Then you start your divorcebusting (get the book). Especially read about the Last Resort Technique. The more you can follow those steps precisely the better you will do.

Really, stay calm. I just went through this ordeal myself and I won. Mine was pretty gone too at BD but time has a way of turning things around.

There's one thing I heard over and over: "people don't leave what they have unless they think what they're going to is better." Most of the time, "better" is a fantasy. Half the battle is to wait out the fantasy.



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885234#Post2885234

BE AWARE THERE MAY BE OTHER REASONS THAN WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD

Originally Posted by Steve85
You need to brace yourself for the other shoe to drop: There is a strong possibility of another woman. Be prepared. AnotherStander is a very wise poster here and he says there are two kinds of sitches: those that involve another person, and those that haven't found out yet that there is another person.

I do not tell you this to freak you out, but to prepare you. We've seen many DBers that do a great job at starting to DB well, and then let it all go by the wayside the minute they find out there is an A.

A or no A, your job is the same. Give him time and space. Focus on you. Go out and GAL. 180 on any bad behavior. And work on detachment.

Buckle in, this is a marathon, not a sprint.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885258#Post2885258

Originally Posted by oceangrl
The OP has already said there are inappropriate text messages and she believes there's an EA on the table. EA's are dangerous things just as MWD explains in her books. People leave marriages over the fantasy they promise. My husband was a leader in the community. He was a leader at church. A family man. I was floored that he was capable of having an affair (I was naive). Looking back, the signs were everywhere. But I didn't know what to look for, and didn't see anything.

In my opinion, I wish someone would have been as brutally honest with me at the beginning. I didn't have a place like this. So instead, I made excuses for his behavior and wanted to believe it wasn't a long term A or that he didn't really love her, and accepted him rewriting history and placing the blame on me. What I would have given for someone to open my eyes to reality. To show me the patterns. I would advise the OP to take Steve's advice and if it is wrong and there is no OW, then fantastic! That's a relief.

Preparation is a gift.


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Originally Posted by may22
Steve said the same thing to me-- brace yourself for a PA. I thought, no way, 99.9% it is not a PA. And then... surprise! it was.

Honestly, I was and am very grateful to Steve and others on this board for helping prepare me for the other shoe to drop. Dovegirl, even if it isn't a PA, I do think it is helpful to be prepared. And once you start thinking about the possibility, I think it can also help with detaching and focusing on you.


Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Steve is right, pretty much every situation involves a PA, EA or IA. In the absence of a physical or emotional affair, there's inevitably an imaginary one and those are the most difficult of all to compete with because the affair can be whatever fantasy the WAS wants to imagine. I can't remember who the poster was but there was a guy here whose wife was engaged in an IA with a celebrity. She actually planned to move closer to him and was trying to engineer ways to get herself in front of him thinking they were soulmates and he would immediately swoon if only he could see her!

I was one of the many here who was convinced there was no OP. Then I had to take some mail over to W's place and swung by at 6am before work to put them in her mailbox and there was a truck in the drive belonging to a "close friend" (someone I knew) she worked with. Yeah.




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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885409#Post2885409


Originally Posted by Steve85
That is what he is saying......now. But guilt has a tendency to fade. Take the time to get consults from lawyers. Make sure you are protected legally. Lots of LBSs thought their spouse would just do the right thing. If he can break sacred wedding vows he certainly can break a verbal agreement.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885436#Post2885436


Originally Posted by Steve85
I had to have her. I had to have her stay. I felt I would die if she ended up leaving. Then something strange happened. I actually started to look at the possibilities if we did S and D. That, darn it, I am quite a catch myself. Any woman would be lucky to have a guy that was hardworking, kept himself in shape, cared about others, and that had values. Sure I would be sad at losing her, but my life would go on, I would thrive, and I would have endless possibilities at female companionship if that was something that I chose to pursue.

So flip this script. HE is a fool for leaving you. Yeah, you aren't perfect.....NEITHER IS HE! He is walking away from the best thing that ever happened to him, and if he doesn't see that then he deserves what he gets. Seriously, if he is all that why is he about to be twice D'd?

And there is no reason why you have to honor his "He has a free legal service through work that can draw up separation agreement. Once we come to terms on things and its drawn up I will take and get advice of atty." SCREW THAT. Go talk to an attorney.....TODAY. Next time S agreement comes up your response: "Great, I will have my attorney look it over." It will stop him dead in his tracks.

YOU take control of this situation. Don't sit back and allow it to be dictated to you. He'll either wake up to what he is losing, or he won't. But there is no reason for you to be a doormat here.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885509#Post2885509

Originally Posted by Steve85
You are putting way too much into what he says. Remember, believe NOTHING he says. Nothing. For all you know he was in bed with someone else last night. All of his "complaints" could must be an excuse to be with an OW. Please do not think I am saying that is the case, but at this point, who really knows??

You worry about the separation, the distance, the lack of contact. Except....that is exactly what your sitch needs right now. Whether you know it or not. Whether he says it or not. If you stopped calling and texting him right now, he'd wonder why. It would get his curiosity going. "Is she moving on? Has she met someone?" Etc. Curiosity on his part is your friend! When your H BD'd you and left, he expected you to react....EXACTLY THE WAY YOU HAVE. Imagine the impact it would have on him to wonder a little bit "why is she not crying and sad? Why is she not contacting me non-stop? Why is she not begging and pleading with me to return and try again?"

In my sitch one of the biggest impacts on my W was when I started to DB really well. And she started to get curious about what was going on. At first, she pretended not to care. At first she pretended that it was none of her business. But as I GAL. As I 180'd on my bad behavior. As I detached. She started to wonder what was going on. "Why is he embracing this plan of mine to get a job, get an apartment, and get a divorce?" "Why is he so busy, and not home?" "Why is he not starting discussions about the R?" "Why is he not begging and pleading with me to change my mind?" "Why is suggesting we should sit down and talk to our D about what is going on?"

That curiosity turned into interest. Interest turned into caring. Caring turned into feelings. Feelings turned into desire. We had had a SSM for years. And suddenly she couldn't keep her hands off of me!

Flip the script. Make him curious. Heck, even frighten him a little. Can it really make things worse?


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885653#Post2885653


Originally Posted by wooba
I’m telling you.....I’m way past the “show him your best and leave him wondering what you’re up to” kind of DBing. I don’t give two sh1ts about what he thinks of me now. Some days I like to be pretty, some days I just don’t care. But once in awhile I will be petty and wear something I know is irresistible to him but he can’t do anything. Like our last episode. He was talking D but I knew he was checking me out. In the end he couldn’t help it but to hug me by my waist from behind. In return, I handed him a bag of trash to take out on his way out.

The small talk- I still enjoy somewhat of our small talk when it doesn’t loop back to craziness. I feel a sight in-authenticity, but I choose to receive it as a positive interaction. Not towards recon or anything, just sort of having a nice chat with a neighbor kind of thing. I welcome the few mins of pleasantry. But just like talking to a neighbor, sometimes I rather be left alone. And you can find ways to politely exit the conversation just as you’d with your neighbor.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885677#Post2885677

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Here is what needs to be clear to you- your goal is 50-50 custody and agreeable terms on support. That's it. Don't let bitterness creep into this. Don't let your judgment be clouded by what you think she may be doing. Maybe she's being vindictive, maybe not. It doesn't matter because she can't control you anymore! Unless you let her of course....

Try to keep emotions out of it and look at this all as a business transaction. The romance part of the R is over and now you are unwinding things. She doesn't "have to realize" anything, and probably won't. She's still stuck in blame mode and will be for a very long time. That is HER problem. Don't let her drag you down there!


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885729#Post2885729

Originally Posted by Steve85
Learn and move forward. No one had more regrets than I. If you read my sitch you can see I was one, mean, ornery, jerk of H. My W had every right to leave me. But here is the thing, we can't change the past. We can ask for forgiveness but we can't change what we've done. We can however resolve to do better from this point forward.

There is a line from a Bon Jovi song called I'll Be There For You. It is: "I can promise you tomorrow, but I can't buy back yesterday."

Regrets are like anything else. You can let them paralyze you, or you can use them to better yourself and move forward a better person. THAT is 180ing. Becoming a woman, and a wife, only a fool would leave.

You are constantly worrying about your sins of the past. You are constantly taking your H's temperature. You are constantly worried about what may come (S and/or D). You can't change the past. You have no control over your H. And you certainly cannon prevent S or D if he is intent on going through with all of that.

So focus on what you can control! What are your GAL plans for tonight? For tomorrow? For Sunday? How are you going to be better today than you were yesterday? You mentioned exercise, better eating, losing weight. Put that plan together. Get into IC. Read books like there is no tomorrow. And the work on detachment. I tried to mention this to you earlier. Become cool as a cucumber. You need to get to a place where he could come to you and confess having an orgy with 10 women, and you would go: "Oh. Ok." and go back to what you are doing. (Detachment doesn't happen overnight so work at it!)

Focus on you. On being busy. On learning and improving. On not letting his crazy affect you. Become the best you can be!


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885893#Post2885893


Originally Posted by job
Why are you taking on the burden of him being broken? You do realize that you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. You can only fix yourself...so please stop thinking that you broke him.

Long before you met him, he had issues, lots of issues and they weren't resolve when he married you. He brought a lot of baggage into your marriage and there is no way in hades that you can fix that mess. He didn't do the necessary work to heal himself before he involved with you. So, listen...he's got a lot of stuff to work on himself and you need to stop listening to all of his gaslighting. He's blaming you for the situation when, in fact, both of you own up to 50/50 of the marriage.

You can't control what he says, does or thinks, but by granny you can control how you react to his nonsense. If you continue to think the way that you do at this time, you are going to drive yourself nuts.

Go to a mirror and stand in front of it. Say to yourself, I am a good person, I try to do what is right and no one, and I mean no one has the right to tear me down. Say that every time you even think you broke him....you didn't.

Keep the focus on you and what you need to do to heal yourself.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886044#Post2886044



Originally Posted by job

We all have been where you are at and we all had to learn to let go, let God have that wheel of the bus. Your h has fired you as his wife and you have to accept that. You can't "nice" him back into the relationship. You have to get to that mirror and tell yourself "that today is the day that I'm taking back my self respect and independence and no more being a mouse. I am going to be that woman that I use to be even if it hurts". Woman, take back your life! Do not be afraid! What is the worst that can happen? He move away? His discussions w/you already have you walking on eggshells and if he's determined to move, no matter what you say or do is going to keep him there.

Nothing is going to change in your situation until you change yourself and how you are dealing w/the situation. We can spend our lives trying to be whatever we think others want us to be, but what we really need is to be ourselves. We must be who we are and not shy away from it.


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Pommy99 Thread

Originally Posted by Pommy99

He has a problem in his marriage ....<<<deathly silence>>>... there is nothing that can fix it except burying head in sand and walking away. And maybe he’s right, maybe nothing can fix his marriage, just like nothing may fix his sports injury...but the contrast in the approach is remarkable. To me it’s like saying I have an injury, the only thing I can do is amputate my limb.


LBW 32 - me
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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2885026#Post2885026

Originally Posted by arkham21

Look, I get it. I'm supposed to GAL and ignore this. The books say I should go out, find friends, have fun. My problem is that I'm an introvert and going out clubbing, drinking, or socializing has never appealed to me at all. I don't have many friends and I'm not particularly close to family. Socializing is a bit of a nightmare for me, and I don't enjoy it. It sounds crazy, but I think I love working, learning, and being productive. I love doing something that's meaningful or fulfilling to me, which gives me a feeling of accomplishment. Work now is our business, so I have a hard time loving it because it's marred by the problems in our relationship.

Originally Posted by oceangrl

I read some good advice here one time that GAL-ing looks different for everyone. I LOVE to learn, so for me, I started taking a bunch of online courses. I started reading books again that interested me. I looked up a class I could take to learn something I wanted to that didn't require teamwork. There is a way to GAL that looks interesting to you. I am not a clubber and I don't drink, so bars are out for me. I had lost connection to myself for so long I seriously had to figure out what I wanted to do and what I was interested in. If you read or take courses, you could always do it outside or in a park. I live near the ocean, so I like to take a blanket down to the beach and sit and try to think positive thoughts and feel the wind and watch people and smell the ocean breeze. Just taking a walk can recharge my batteries.

As far as your relationship, I would just accept that for right now you aren't sure what you are going to do, and that's okay. You're right, your H isn't particularly attractive right now. I would have anger build up in me and I finally am learning how to listen to it. Last night, I felt so angry at my husband that I had to go sit in the bathroom before I said something angry or dumb. I had to really think about where my anger was coming from. I realized I was so hurt because he ignored me and focused on the kids. We sat in the same house and he never had a conversation with me, and I am a words person. I sat and put my hand on my heart and sent love to myself. I try to remember he may not choose me or he may abandon me, but I can choose myself and decide not to abandon myself. That's why I am working so hard on detaching. It's the hardest thing for me. When I feel pain and want to lash out at him, I know I still haven't detached. Its hard because it can be so lonely, I want affection so much. But I also know I cannot be dependent on him for my happiness.

I've noticed when I get better at detaching, I usually have a few days where I regress. I think this is because it can be so hard to go out of our comfort zone, so hard to create new habits. We have this old habit of going to them for fulfillment, and I have read that our brains don't actually like to think, they like patterns. So I have to realize what my pattern is and create new "wagon ruts" in my brain for it to follow. It is not easy!

Best of luck. We are all here for you.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886170#Post2886170

Originally Posted by CWarrior
The answers to these are pretty straightforward from a DB perspective. Do YOU want to divide up finances or not? If no, then don't bring it up. If yes, then bring it up. With the DB approach you detach, make decisions for you, and take control of your life. Before you do anything dramatic, try to give yourself a few days to think about it, and consider posting here for feedback.

If he wants something, let him ask for it, and/or do the work, especially when that something is at odds with what you want for the future.

If you don't want separation, it's his problem to figure out the challenges. You just need to ensure you cover yourself. E.g., if he moves out, what will you do to ensure you get your $x/month in alimony the court would award you, and how are you going to make ends meet on that amount of alimony?

In all things, take away the HIM focus, and replace it with a healthier YOU focus.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886174#Post2886174

Originally Posted by oceangrl
I had to tell myself what I am going to tell you. You have basically trained him to dump things on you. Like the puppy and you will accept it hoping he will drop a crumb of love on you. Are you worth more than crumbs of love? Yes, you made mistakes. So did he. Figure out who you want to be and work on yourself. Fix your mistakes for you. If you do it for him and the R works out, the changes won't stick. You can't change out of fear. It has to be for you. If not this R, than the next.

As for you, I want you to visualize who you are at your best self. How do you look? How do you walk? Does your face look relaxed and happy? What does your laugh sound like? Now, find that woman. Fake it until you make it. This is your single best mission. It will affect your R, but more importantly you! Connect with yourself.

Stop pain shopping. Don't look at his FB. You can change your settings so that you do not see what he posts. Ask yourself if what you are going to do will bring you closer to detachment and happiness or farther. Make new habits.




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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886153#Post2886153


Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
If they want you, you'll know it. If they don't want you, you'll be confused.

Good job avoiding the touch. Realize that it is our minds fooling us into wanting the touch, wanting the emotional connection so intensely once we realize we can't have it. Then once we get it again, it's not so special. Just like sex in the beginning of a R vs sex 5 years in. It's different because we think about it differently. It's an unconscious drift. Consciousness changes it all around.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886155#Post2886155

Originally Posted by JoeDredd
During the conversation with my wife, she said that her father can't judge the situation because she hasn't told him all the facts why she left me, which were that I put my job before her, that I abandoned her in doing so, that I put money before her, that I put possessions before her, that I stopped her from having friends over, etc.

I didn't know what to say to this so didn't say anything. My mind was saying "I must validate her feelings and not argue" but I couldn't think of anything to say that didn't sound patronizing or twee or glib.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
That's better than putting your foot in your mouth.

I like simple validation:

I get that.
I can see that.
Or if you can try relate say "Yea he really doesn't know everything that went on does he?"

In reality, only the 2 people in a R know everything that happened. But kinda not since we can't remember everything anyways.

You need to read DB basics and hammer them home. When she states her feelings, her reality, her perspective of the situation you validate it. For now, you keep your own thoughts and feelings to yourself.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886214#Post2886214

Be Catnip

Originally Posted by Steve85


I was never S. Yet I implemented those rules even in person. I was there. I was present. I was upbeat. I always had a song or a whistle on my lip. When she asked me something I answered cheerfully. I didn't initiate conversation. When she did I listened and validated.

The idea here is that he is like a cat. You know how cats are, right? They want to approach you...on their terms. Our cat can be walking towards me. Obviously wanting to jump up and lay on the recliner with me. But if I make a motion towards here, bend down and put my arms out, reach for her, etc....she will run the other direction. But if I just keep doing what I am doing. Watching TV, reading on my phone, etc. She will slowly make her way to me and jump up onto my lap when she is ready.

Let him approach and jump in your lap. And even then, play it cool.............


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886218#Post2886218

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
You need to GAL but that doesn't mean shirking your parental responsibilities... double down on being the best parent possible. THEN DO IT. My XW and I had 50-50 custody. On the weeks I had the kids I was Superdad. On the weeks I didn't then I GAL'd like a madman. Split custody bites, there's no two ways about it. But you can make the best of it by focusing like a laser beam on being Parent of the Century on the weeks you have the kids.


[quote=AnotherStander]She fired you as husband, friend, mate and financial adviser. Her financial issues are not your problem anymore except as mandated by the court. Unless it endangers the kids. And if it does, then go back and get full custody. Focus on you and the kids, leave your W to the mess she's making.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886381#Post2886381

DBing with style

Originally Posted by oceangrl
Reporting back...

He is out of town. I initiated no contact. I did not check his email. I did not look at the location finder on my phone to try and figure out where he is, etc. He did call me right before he went to bed, and I let it go to VM.

I did end up talking to him though as I picked my daughter up from rehearsal and she was talking to him on the car's bluetooth. I kept it light and casual. When he says, "just wanted to see how your day was'" I want to tell him EXACTLY how my day went thanks to his sorry butt but instead I said, "Great, thanks!" I kept it short. He was obviously tired and wanted to go to bed. I ended the call first. I said, "well, hope you have a good day tomorrow. Bye!"



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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886409#Post2886409


Originally Posted by BluWave
I also find myself triggered by reading here and want to be mindful of what I post or how I react. After I read, I try and step away and reflect on how things affect me and why, rather than just dish out more advice. There has also been some conflict arising in some threads, and it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I don't want to create space for that in my life, and especially with strangers. I will try my best to not engage and be mindful of what I post, but I really do not like reading negativity from others.

My sitch is coming up on 5 years since my H ended his A and did a rather quick 180. I don't think about OW or the A much anymore, because it doesn't serve me. He did everything he could do to be remorseful, transparent and commit to piecing. I try and look forward now because the wounds do heal in time.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886513#Post2886513

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
The biggest problem is you want him back NOW.....The real question is do you have the patience to let him go for now and see how things play out later.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886916#Post2886916

Originally Posted by oceangrl
It takes such tremendous energy to rewire your brain and do things differently. I am constantly reminding myself of my goals and long term perspective. My worth. Constantly asking myself what would be a 180 for me, or am I doing something different, or is this more of the same. I am always trying to be self-aware and it is exhausting!!


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886932#Post2886932


Originally Posted by oceangrl
This site has saved my sanity and dignity. When feeling discouraged or hopeless I have often come here and just read other threads or the statements R2C posts. They pick me up and remind me I will be okay.


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https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2886856#Post2886856



Originally Posted by Thornton
How do you fight for your H? You fight for him by letting him go. Again, DBing is counter intuitive. It goes against your natural instincts to chase and convince him to stay.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Here is your problem. As the LBS, no matter what you do, he'll say it's the wrong thing. If you fight and chase he'll accuse you of smothering him and being controlling. If you DB he'll claim he wants to be chased and fought for. You're darned if you do and darned if you don't..... According to his words.

But if you let him go, give him time and space, then all these other dynamics we've talked about could eventually come into play. He'll get curious why you aren't chasing, calling, hounding. As you distance, he'll get the urge to pursue. Whether he does or not, none of us know.

What I can't tell you is I've seen dozens, maybe hundreds of these sitches, and pressure and pursuit work in less than 1% of the cases. DBing only gives you a 50/50 chance, less the worse you are at it. As you can see, the best chance you have is to DB the best you can. But it isn't up to you or anyone else other than him ultimately.


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Originally Posted by OceanGrl
You've already told him you want to be with him.

You've already told him you don't want divorce and you feel you can change. Don't tell him anymore. That's not working. As it says in DR, don't do more of the same.

Now show him. But show him by doing it for you.

Stop asking his permission to do things. Stop asking him if it's okay to leave the dogs inside or if he can help you with them. Instead, say something like, "I'm heading out. Dogs in or out?" or "I'm heading out. Put the dogs out when you leave."
"We will have to make arrangements for dogs in March. How can you help?"

As far as an AP goes, I asked my husband straight out if he had one and he said no. He had been with someone for a year already. Integrity and affairs don't go together.

Make a playlist of awesome songs that make you happy and feel empowered.

When he looks at your stomach, instead of feeling less than, think "what a jerk. I can do better."

Flip the script. Think of something he did unkind to you today and realize he doesn't treat you very well.

Yes, you made mistakes. Well, he's not exactly a knight in shining armor right now either. Because you haven't forgiven yourself yet you keep beating yourself up. He is acting like a big fat victim and you definitely want to stop playing into that.

You've got this. Start telling yourself you do.


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Originally Posted by CWarrior
"on the spot" often means someone wants to pressure you to make a choice. The best go-to answers are, "I'll need some time to think about this before I make a decision." If asked for an ETA, "I'll get back to you on that." If the offer is a fair one, they should have no problem giving you time to consider it.


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Originally Posted by KitCat
he said he has felt X for a long time and he tried to tell me....

Originally Posted by CWarrior
Good ways to validate his feelings might be "You felt X for a long time, but you couldn't tell me?" or "You felt X for a long time, but you didn't think I heard you?" To me, your statement starts by validating his feelings, but then shifts towards you and apologizing and expressing your critical inner voice.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Nothing you do will save this M. This M will be saved if and when he decides he wants to save the M.

You shouldn't be doing anything as a "wake up call". He will see right through the manipulation and it will push him further away. You let go and detach. FOR YOU. Move on. FOR YOU. Let him live life without you. FOR YOU.

Doing that MIGHT wake him up. It might not. But it will allow you to move forward with dignity, self-respect, and a healthy outlook on life.


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Originally Posted by Thornton
Everything he tells you is BS. It's projection.

He's the one cheating. But he sure loves to provide you with a laundry list of everything you did wrong and then punish you for it.

I would call his bluff. If he wants out so badly because you are such an awful, horrible human being, who didn't listen, or wake him up on time, or forgot to take his clothes out of the dryer, or because you don't have the body of a 20 year old anymore, then he can leave. Show him the door.


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Originally Posted by CWarrior
Bringing in your own attorney only means a "fight" if one of you wants one. The result of most fights doesn't change the outcome much---you should get 50% of the assets, and then whomever makes more money pays the person who makes less money a good chunk of that for a number of years relative to the length of the marriage in spousal support. Your attorney should be able to tell you the norm in your state.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Filing for separation or divorce changes NOTHING. With him in an active PA it is just a legal procedure. Nothing more nothing less. He is no more your H with S as he is with D. S is no less final, or more final, than D.

I see LBS get fixated on avoiding D at all costs. First, it is out of your control. If he wants a D he doesn't need your consent, nor does he need you to know the truth on assets, etc. D is not a finality. Lots of couples get D'd and then end up getting back together. Drop your fear of D, it is causing you to focus on the wrong things and do the wrong things. Stop trying to control him and the sitch. You can't.


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Originally Posted by Steve85
If you had a bad experience with a car, would you stop driving all together? Or would you get a new car?Throwing the baby out with the bath water is rarely a good decision. ICs are human-beings. Which means there are good ones and bad ones. Which means there are some that are right for one person, but completely wrong for another. I don't know why people get into IC, don't like, and they make a blanket decision to never do IC again. You should never settle for an IC that is bad or not a good fit. Shop around. Just like you would for a masseuse. Or a physical therapist. Or a doctor. When one doesn't work for you find another!

IC helps millions of people everyday. Don't let one bad experience sour you on IC as a concept.


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DBing skills also help improve relationship with your kids

Originally Posted by Steve85
Update on my D's and my relationship:

Over the last few months, I've been noticing that our relationship has been much much better. I just kept being the best dad and father that I could. As I've stated before, my W was much more quick to embrace my changes than my D was. It is important to remember that I was as bad of a father as I was a husband. I could make excuses (stressful job working 90-100 hours a week, etc), but none of that matters. The fact was I was absent. And when I was there I was surly and grumpy. I did some things right (never missed her school and sporting events, etc, always took care of her monetarily), but in general I was a bad father. Half of being a father is being there and being engaged. And in a positive, supportive way. I wasn't even doing that.

So after BD 2017, I started instituting my changes. I went to IC. I read self-help books. I learned the art of empathy and validation. I 180'd on bad behavior. I remained emotionally consistent no matter what the problem or behavior.

As I said, by about May 18, my W was fully trusting and embracing of my changes. It took my D way longer.

Last night we went to her varsity girls' basketball team playoff game. She chose not to play this year for a lot of reasons.

Anyway, I met her and my W halfway, then we rode to the game together. D wanted to sit up front (never does that!) Then at the game we walked single file down to a bleacher seat, me, my D, then my W. She walked to the other side of me and sat down (so it went her, me and my W, me in the middle). NO WAY does she choose to sit there a year ago. Then when we stopped on the way home (after eating) to get my W's car, D hopped out of the back and hopped in the front of the truck with me. Again, a while back no way does she choose to ride home with me instead of my W.

I was so emotional thinking about this week. People, make small changes in your life today! The dividends will eventually pay off.



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Originally Posted by Ahkuei
and she said trust is broken (it's my fault; shouldn't be snooping on her phone)


Originally Posted by Steve85
So snooping on her phone (which should be completely open and unlocked to you BTW) is worse than having intimate discussions with an OM. DO NOT LET HER GET AWAY WITH THIS.

I told my WW in the thick of my sitch: "Nope, you aren't turning this around. Snooping on your device is no where near as bad as there being something for me to find."

Stand your ground. Command respect.


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Originally Posted by OverTheRainbow
Stop playing into your ex's arguments, there's not benefit to you. Do the right thing even when it's hard (it will never be the easier option).


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Originally Posted by wolfman
For all you newbies read this. For a long time I thought of suicide. I just wanted the pain to stop. It was unbearable, it followed me everywhere. I kept thinking my life will never get better. And I felt so sorry for myself. But like everyone says here you have to go through the pain to come out a stronger person. I felt worthless, like no one would care about me or love me. Even though I have a GF, I had to love myself. No one can love me more than me. Don’t let “these” people take your confidence, your worth, or how you felt before BD. There is a life out there, there is a bright future for you. It will not seem that way. And it may not seem that way for a long time, but that’s ok. You will be better, you will be stronger. Trust me I know, I cried for almost 16 months. But just like a broken leg. It won’t heal over night, it won’t heal in a weak. So don’t expect your “heart “ to heal any faster. This board is an amazing place and I want all of you to know. You saved this mans life many times!!! LITERALLY. Thank you for this board. For you newbies stay the course, just like the broken leg, it takes time, a lot of time!!! I hope this helps anyone who is really hurting.
Thank you to so many!!!!


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Originally Posted by Steve85
Detachment = not letting his words or deeds affect you emotionally.

How would you say you are doing in that regard?

I see LBWs in particular all the time give lip service to detachment, and even recognize "I am still not detached". Almost as if not being detached is a badge of honor. Sorry, but detachment is not for your sitch or to affect your WAH. IT IS FOR YOU! It is impossible to move forward without detaching.

Detachment is freeing. It helps ebb the pain. It will give you a new perspective. Detachment makes you go from thinking your life is over unless he comes back, to realizing that the world is your oyster REGARDLESS OF WHAT HE DECIDES.

When I started to detach well, the affect it had on me was profound. OH and in my sitch it also happened to help her see that she was standing to lose everything important in her life, and woke her up. NOTE: That second part is not guaranteed in anyone else's sitch. HOWEVER, that is not the reason for detachment. See my previous paragraph for why detachment is so important. TO THE LBS!! Sometimes it has the side-effect that it has an affect on the WAS.

Detach. Detach. Detach. You are happy. Upbeat. Fulfilled. Pleased. Looking forward to an awesome life. NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS OR DOES.


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Originally Posted by BluWave
I am really sorry you find yourself in this situation. When I think back to the pain of my H being with OW and it being right in my face, I just shutter. It actually feels surreal and at the time I didn't think I could get through it. Of course I did, and you will too, even if our outcomes are different. I decided to post to offer you empathy because I understand the agony of knowing your H is with OW and also infatuated with her. It is like someone ripping you apart from the inside out and you might begin to question who you are, if your life as you knew it was ever real, and it can cause you to ruminate and spin with fear and pain. The advice here is often technique and goal driven, but I found that very hard to execute given the amount of depression and anxiety that was building up as things got worse.

I am saying all of this to you because I am reading that you are being hard on yourself. You are regretting engaging with him in too much conversation and texting and you are trying to validate more. From my perspective, you don't need to focus on any of that. I think you might be better off protecting yourself emotionally by creating as much space and distance as you can. I don't see anything good coming from your interactions with him. They are causing you more anxiety and self-doubt. You don't need that right now. Can you take the DB rules and principles of validating and put them on the back shelf for the time being? I also happen to think that when a person is abusing us (and I define adultery as a type of mental abuse) then validating does not serve a purpose and it anything it demonstrates weakness. When someone is all out harming you, first and foremost should come self protection and self preservation. Stay away from danger.

I recall in my sitch trying to follow the DB principles and then failing and ultimately feeling worse about myself. They became self defeating. I had too much fear, anxiety and depression. There is a lot of cookie cutter advice here, but some of our sitches are much more extreme than others. Ie, if your S picks up and leaves you for OP and then boasts about it, then that is different then them just saying they are unhappy in the M. The more extreme the behavior from them, the more difficult it can be to accept and deal with. The times I felt better about myself were when I just stayed away from him entirely and learned to drop the rope. You don't have to pretend to be strong and detached if you don't feel that way. You don't have to validate cr-p attitude and behavior from him. IMO, right now your focus should be on you and on your self protection and self preservation. You don't have to have conversations with him about anything other than logistics and that can be done in matter of fact emails. You do not have to validate anything. He does not have to know where you are at or how you feel about anything. He is not a safe person for you. You have the right to put up strong boundaries and protect yourself. He is not a safe person to have in your life at all.

I am truly sorry this is so hard right now. Please take care of yourself as best you can. Create space away from a person that is no longer safe for you. Surround yourself with people that you trust and that love you and care for you. Build new relationships with people that are supportive and strong. Celebrate yourself and your own strengths. Find GAL that are therapeutic and help you work through the grief. Just grieve. Have faith that in time, you will come out on the other side, and perhaps a stronger version of yourself.



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Original post

Originally Posted by Core

If I could pass anything over to you, its to not Google about her problems, rather, work on your own. I learned things like Anxious/avoidant attachments, covert narcissists, BPD, passive aggressive behavior and so on. All it does is increase anxiety, remove hope and build resentment. All time I wish I devoted more to boundaries and validation.


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Originally Posted by oceangrl
My therapist gave me some sad but real advice: Going into a marriage is a fairy tale. Ending a marriage is a business deal. Cover your booty. Keep your eyes open. Know your rights and options. Hope for the best but expect the worst.


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Originally Posted by funbun
Journaling

Things I appreciate or bring happiness:

(1) Off work today. A lot of free time. I basically slept the whole morning. Feeling refreshed. I'll just Netflix and chill the whole day.

(2) I ran for 3 km yesterday while listening to music. Some songs hit me hard in the feels, I ran faster. It's quite
therapeutic. I plan to run regularly, probably twice a week. My go-to gym is closed so running is a good substitute for working out. Need to let a bit of sweat out to get them endorphins up.

(3) Most of my family members are working at home because of the pandemic. The virus situation $ucks but I'm glad they are here. I'm less lonely.

Since a lot of places are closed off nowadays, I go to YouTube, make sure I learn something daily. Last night I watched a video on the Art of War and how it can be applied to daily life. Two principles that caught my attention:

(1) Do not ignore the signs for war = red flags in the R.

(2) Pick your battles - learn to rest and fight battles you prepared for and have a higher chances of wining. NC with W on days I am tired, do not meet unless I am ready, and make sure to have a plan when I do contact W.

I'm pretty sure you can extract even deeper interpretations for these principles, but no time for that, gotta shower and start my day.

Carpe Diem wink


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Originally Posted by CaptainN
Had my first session today. He definitely gave me some suggestions on some 180s I could do. They're not necessarily huge undertakings, but are definitely things that I would have to get outside my comfort zone to do, so they feel huge to me. They involve skills I need to develop at some point, anyway. I'm going to have to think on it, come up with a plan of action, and prepare/practice.


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Time for a new thread.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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