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Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Hi Scott,

I can not emphasis strongly enough about changing your behavior and the way you interact with her.

There are sub-conscience and primal things at work here. Do your homework and understand what woman are attracted to. Understand what turns them on. At the same time, understand the difference between attraction and seduction.

What you have been doing is not working.


Time to reinvent yourself. She may like what she sees.


What is a good book or resource to learn about that?

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"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
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Hi Scott--

I haven't seen any mention of it so I assume the answer is "no", but do you have any indications or suspicions that she is still engaging in any kind of affair? You mentioned briefly a previous EA, but I haven't seen you mention anything else.


H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
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No, there are no indications or suspicions that she is still engaging in any kind of affair.

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I just needed to find a place to vent. I am so frustrated and angry. From the last BD, which was probably the fifth one in the last 4 years, things have gotten better. She is no longer making a move to separate. There is plenty of peace in the home. We are nice to one another. When I leave for work in the morning she gives me a quick hug and kiss goodbye. When we go to sleep at night she gives me a kiss good night and she says "I love you."

But there is no intimacy beyond that and its been that way for 4 months. Prior to the BD its not like there was a lot of intimacy either, there really hasn't been much in 4 years (surprise!) since she had an emotional (as far as I know that's all it was) affair.

I'm angry though. And I'm kind of sick of putting my life on hold. And I'm ticked that I'm the one that has to be patient. In marriage counseling this last time the counselor asked her if she was in and she said she didn't know. She says we have big issues we have to deal with before she can commit but the reality is the issues can't be worked on if she doesn't freaking commit.

I never thought I would be where I'm at. I was committed. For me, marriage was a lifetime commitment. So because of my values and my faith I'm trapped and have to wait until she figures it out. I'm also so worried about my kids. I really think a divorce would destroy the foundation of their lives.

The marriage functions in a way that isn't detrimental to them, it is a positive for them. The family has a good life. It's just that I don't have a wife.

I don't think I'm capable of pulling the plug and I don't know if I'm capable of stepping further back to put more pressure on the situation either. I feel very stuck, stuck in a bad marriage where I can't do anything to fix or improve it (trust me I've tried. I've done it all. Our first marriage counselor said "Scott, I've never seen a husband do so much work to change and improve, its really incredible. Unfortunately, its just not enough.") Well, we didn't go back to him and that was 2 years ago.

There is no magic to this.

I know GAL. Detach. I'm working to detach and I've done pretty well. Do I reject the last kiss of the night and the hug and kiss in the morning when I walk out the door to completely detach?

My marriage counselor wants me to do the opposite. She wants me to give my wife a hug when I want a hug, to ask for what I want. What I want is no more of this BS.

I'm fit, I've got a good job, I'm a great dad, I don't gamble or drink. I just can't understand why I have to continue to go through this. It makes me want to have a good cry.

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Hi ScottB. I would love to have what you have. How long did it take? Be thankful for the little things.

Do you have date nights? Maybe plan something special. I know, as a woman, I need to be warmed up before we go beyond the small stuff.

Sending cupid arrows your way.


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
Living MY Happiest Life Ever
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Scotty B,

Unfortunately I know your situation to well and I was gonna comment before on your thread but then you disappeared. I had a feeling you would be back.

I will give you my opinion. Your W is emotionally immature. She had the EA 4 years ago and got addicted to the high. After coming down from the high and as time goes by she is looking for that high again. She can’t get it from you because she’s been with you for so long and it’s not secretive or dangerous. She’s too emotionally immature to know where your relationship is at right now. Secure, safe, predictable stable. That’s not exciting.

My ex did the same thing after her brief ea. We reconciled for two years where things looked normal on the outside but internally she was still looking for the high. She eventually filed and a year and a half later she’s still doing the same thing. Started dated a loser friend of my friend and hid it from me for awhile probably to feed off the secretive rush. It’s pathetic really because he’s half the man that I am. Everyone has lost respect for her including myself.

Only you can decide how long you’ll put up with it. I can tell you there are lots of woman out there who would give anything to date a guy like you if your honest about your assessment of yourself. It’s tough man I know I lived it for almost as long as you.

There’s an old poster “Accuray” who went through the same thing. His posts are pure gold and should be sold in a book.

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Originally Posted by ScottB

I just needed to find a place to vent. I am so frustrated and angry. From the last BD, which was probably the fifth one in the last 4 years, things have gotten better. She is no longer making a move to separate. There is plenty of peace in the home. We are nice to one another. When I leave for work in the morning she gives me a quick hug and kiss goodbye. When we go to sleep at night she gives me a kiss good night and she says "I love you."

But there is no intimacy beyond that and its been that way for 4 months. Prior to the BD its not like there was a lot of intimacy either, there really hasn't been much in 4 years (surprise!) since she had an emotional (as far as I know that's all it was) affair.

I'm angry though. And I'm kind of sick of putting my life on hold. And I'm ticked that I'm the one that has to be patient. In marriage counseling this last time the counselor asked her if she was in and she said she didn't know. She says we have big issues we have to deal with before she can commit but the reality is the issues can't be worked on if she doesn't freaking commit.

I never thought I would be where I'm at. I was committed. For me, marriage was a lifetime commitment. So because of my values and my faith I'm trapped and have to wait until she figures it out. I'm also so worried about my kids. I really think a divorce would destroy the foundation of their lives.

The marriage functions in a way that isn't detrimental to them, it is a positive for them. The family has a good life. It's just that I don't have a wife.

I don't think I'm capable of pulling the plug and I don't know if I'm capable of stepping further back to put more pressure on the situation either. I feel very stuck, stuck in a bad marriage where I can't do anything to fix or improve it (trust me I've tried. I've done it all. Our first marriage counselor said "Scott, I've never seen a husband do so much work to change and improve, its really incredible. Unfortunately, its just not enough.") Well, we didn't go back to him and that was 2 years ago.

There is no magic to this.

I know GAL. Detach. I'm working to detach and I've done pretty well. Do I reject the last kiss of the night and the hug and kiss in the morning when I walk out the door to completely detach?

My marriage counselor wants me to do the opposite. She wants me to give my wife a hug when I want a hug, to ask for what I want. What I want is no more of this BS.

I'm fit, I've got a good job, I'm a great dad, I don't gamble or drink. I just can't understand why I have to continue to go through this. It makes me want to have a good cry.


Scott, have you read the book No Mr. Nice Guy? I highly recommend it. The book literally changed my life, and was, along with DR, a book I credit with saving my marriage.

I am seeing a lot of NGS in this post. Your MC is correct. You NEED to ask for what you want. Nice guys think that if they are fit, have a good job, are a great dad, don't gamble and drink, then they should just magically get what they want. It is called a covert contract. Your W can't be expected to read your mind any more than you can read hers!

So get NMMNG. Learn to express your needs explicitly. Learn to let go of anger and resentment. Learn to stop being passive-aggressive. (BTW, that's what "Do I reject the last kiss of the night and the hug and kiss in the morning when I walk out the door to completely detach?" is, passive-aggressiveness, and it will not get you what you want!)

Also, your sitch doesn't call for detachment in the traditional DB sense as much as it calls for self-differentiation in marriage. Google: self-differentiation in marriage.

You say "I know GAL" like it is a chore. GAL is about rediscovering that enjoyment in life, that fun side of yourself as individual. Healthy MR are not two needy, overly dependent (codependent) people coming together. Healthy MR as two happy, healthy, self-differentiated people coming together. Our society has too much of the first and not enough of the last, which is why are D rates are so high.

You should also start researching MWD's video and writings on the Sex Starved Marriage. She has excellent resources to help couples in that situation!

You are in a good place. You have a loving W, that appears to be over her EA, that is still affectionate with you. Are you filling her love tank? Another book to read is The 5 Love Languages. Most people try to love their spouse the way that they themselves want to be loved. You have to love your spouse according to her love languages, not yours.

You got this. Keep progressing and growing. Things can get better, just keep working. Oh, and stop FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELF. That is what a Nice Guy does.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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P.S. Go back and read my sitch. It sounds sooooooo much like yours! It is as if Steve85 and ScottB are the same guys.

The pattern I gave you in my last email is the pattern I used to turn my sitch around.

- I stopped being a Nice Guy and started expressing my needs
- I stopped loving my W in my love language and started loving her in hers
- I stopped having unrealistic expectations of hot, passionate sex every night, and started meeting her half way (good sex a few times a month)

I say all that to say that my last post was directed directly to you and your sitch based on what I learned in mine. The above does not apply in general to sitches in this forum, but I think yours is similar enough to mine that a similar pattern might work.

The biggest change I made to change my sitch was to fix my own attitude. That is where GAL, 180ing, and being differentiated (loving detachment if you will) focused on me.

One last story. About 3 months into our sitch, I came to my W, who was very similar to yours even telling our MC that she wasn't sure if she wanted to stay or wanted to go, one night saying: "I am really horny tonight and would really like to have sex with you. No pressure if you aren't feeling up to it, but I do really want you tonight." She looked at me, saw that this wasn't the same NGS dude that had demanded sex in the past because he felt he EARNED it, and said; "Ok, I will be in there in a few minutes."

We had some of the best sex of our life together that night.


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So Steve just to clarify you our advising someone who has been threatened with D four times to pursue and ask for sex?

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