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Pommy99 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Newbie20
Mine has been in contact with me the entire time, has had no OW, and supposedly the reason for the separation was from him to have space from my controlling behavior which has since been eradicated. He has offered reconciliation twice during this period but didn't follow through. Then he filed for D which is not final yet. He still isn't completely gone IMO but I'm stuck in limbo land until he either does it or I give up in m own mind.

I feel for you, limbo is such a hard place to be, for so long. I’m still faltering over whether I want him or don’t want him. It’s so hard knowing when to give up. I don’t think I’m there yet, but I also think I’m not that far off.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Jan 2020
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Pommy99 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by may22
hi Pommy,

I'm so sorry. I know that s*cks.

I don't know if this helps or hurts, but my H maintained through all of this-- until he finally revealed the true extent and depth of his A three weeks ago-- that the AP had nothing to do with any of this, that our troubles were between the two of us and totally separate from her. (Just like yours! So funny/sad we have WH twins.) I might just discount him saying that. He might even believe it himself right now because he HAS to in order to do what he's doing, but it is BS and you shouldn't buy it.

Also, just like my sorry H, claiming to be "trying" to get the feelings back whilst still in an EA/PA/infatuation/whatever with an OW-- is simply not trying! It is impossible. Imagine if you had some hot fun side guy in the city who was stroking your ego, telling you how beautiful you are, your husband doesn't understand or appreciate you, even if you aren't in a PA you are sharing romantic dinners and long talks and whatever... he listens to you, he wants your advice, he is always happy to see you. And then you go home to your H. Your "friend" is texting you, calling you, making you feel beautiful and wanted and special. Your H is someone you know backwards and forwards and no matter what, there just isn't going to be that level of excitement and energy and what-ifs with him. Your H has all the baggage of real life, kids, mortgage, housework, bills.

Think about that. How could you POSSIBLY imagine that the excitement and fun you see with your "friend" can come back into your R with your H? It is like a drug. I mean... I get it! It probably *does* feel like a missing puzzle piece. It just isn't real.
I totally agree with what you have written above and in your own thread - it’s about how she makes him feel, and it is like an addiction. Both my and his IC have said the same. His IC said that he might not actually want a proper R with her, and that it’s more to do with the addiction of feeling wanted. My IC has talked to me about secondary gains...why does he keep the status quo? He has TWO women desiring him, wanting his attention, his time. Why would he change that?. He has these two lives, and a woman in each. If he makes a decision to end one of these Rs then he has to go cold turkey, and no addict wants to be in that place. As mentioned before, H managed 4 days of cold turkey from EAP following declaration of NC.

Originally Posted by may22

The good side of him walking (if he actually does... saying he wants to and actually doing it are two different things) is now you're out of limbo. Now you can DB like a champ. It is HARD to do it when he's in your house. Now he gets to realize that his fantasy of still being best friends with you is not going to happen, and losing you as his best friend is going to hurt.

Hang in there.
he phoned up about a rental yesterday. I cried. Ugly cry. I tried to do it out of earshot, in my bathroom, but he heard me. Maybe I wanted him to hear me, IDK.But after I realised I do want him to go, I don’t want to be in a R like this. He comes home every week, under the excitement of the city, he concludes he wants to leave. After a few hours at home, he remembers he has children who want and need him in their lives, he realises that he stands to lose a lot financially, his lifestyle will change dramatically, and he starts to waiver on his decision to leave, and he tries to reel me in again. It’s the same cycle every week. And I do not want that any more. Because his decision to stay is not about me.

I have had 4 sessions with an IC and she now firmly has him as narcissistic personality disorder. This is something that my family has picked up on over a number of years, but the term ‘narcissist ‘ is bandied about a lot in the media, and I’ve taken it all with a pinch of salt. However, she recommended a book to me, which arrived yesterday: Should I Stay or Should I Go - surviving a relationship with a narcissist . Everything I’ve read so far rings so true about how he has treated me throughout our marriage. It’s jaw-droppingly accurate. And it makes me realise that this isn’t all my fault, and that he will take all these traits into his next relationship. I can fix me, but I can’t fix him. And whilst he’s the way he is, I don’t know if I want to be in a relationship with him. This isn’t about the way he’s treated me in the last year, it’s all the years prior to that. I feel that this separation might be as much my way of escaping as it is his.

It’s just scary that I might have to admit all that to myself.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 310
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Pommy99 Offline OP
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So u-turn of sorts from both of us in last 24 hrs. I’d like some advice please!
1. I’m not ready for this marriage to end

2. H suggested that moving out is a bad idea right now as D15 has final year exams in May, and separation could impact her studies.

He suggested separating but co-habiting. We would both live as single people. I should instinctively want to put my daughter first. But I am struggling to see how I will cope. I feel,our relationship would deteriorate even further, as would my mental state, under the stress of him working away 3 days in the week, and then coming home - close but unavailable; knowing he has freedom to see/do what he wants, stay out all night etc and I’d suck it up. I’d rathe he see/do what he wants and I’d remain oblivious. I feel deterioration of our relationship in front of the children could be as damaging as him leaving.

I am completely at a loss here.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Jan 2020
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Pommy99 Offline OP
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As an addendum to the above, I guess I’m trying to understand, is this really about D15 and exams? Her having exams is not new information!

For someone who seems adamant there is no future in the M, why would they not want to leave?

He has told me on so many occasions that he wants to leave, but each time stalls on actually taking real action.

I’d like opinions on whether, in terms of hoping to save the marriage, S is better than him staying and not having the space to figure out what he wants.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Aug 2019
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No it is not about D15. He wants more time to see how green the grass is without having to give up his “family” life . If you agree to this he just got another 6 months of doing exactly what he’s been doing with you saying ok to it . I like how they throw in we both will be living single - trying to get you to participate.

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I don't know, Pommy... I agree with CG. Sounds like you'd be signing up for six more months of the same with your OK. *Are* you OK with this? Because if you are, and can truly detach and not GAF then I think what MWD would say is that in-house separation gives you more chances to interact and show your 180s, GAL, etc. My DB coach told me that she always prefers IHS to moving out, if you can handle it.

But if you aren't OK with it, then don't do it. You need to decide what you want and what you are OK with and not OK with and then work from there. You already have decided you aren't ready for this M to end.... now you need to decide what else are your pillars that reflect your values and supports your own mental and physical health.

Have you read MWD's Healing From Infidelity? There is a chapter on when your spouse won't end the affair and I'm going to quote a little from it (hope that is OK):

"I know it is a lot to ask of you to avoid putting pressure on your spouse to end the affair if your spouse has chosen unfaithfulness. You may feel like you're a doormat or that your spouse is "having his cake and eating it too." After all, your spouse has all the comforts of home -- you, the kids, (if you have them), your home and a secure lifestyle-- and an affair. How unfair this feels, and is. I get it.

"But you are not a doormat. You are not a pushover. You are simply fighting for your marriage and you're trying to do it in the smartest way possible. You are giving your spouse the time and space they need to sort their emotions out and do the right thing. You are very courageous. You're a warrior. Don't let anyone tell you differently."

She then goes on to talk about boundary drawing and when you're ready to do it, to do it... but you have to be prepared to follow through. So if you do decide to go with an IHS, maybe the above will help. If you decide to say no and he decides to move out, there are plenty of stories on here (CG is one) where letting them go and DBing like a champ seems like the best and fastest road to R, or to a better life anyway without your WS.

And: do NOT let him guilt you into letting him stay but date other people because it would be best for D15. That is BS. Does he think him dating other people while living at home is going to be peachy for D15? If he really prioritized the kids above his own selfishness, this wouldn't be happening. (this is me talking to myself too lol.)

Also, if he's in the same place as my H, he hasn't taken actual steps to leave because he's scared. He may be just as scared as you are of ending the M and actually separating-- he also just has this other big driver that is pushing him to leave that you don't have (the OW), whether she's actually encouraging him to do so or he just wants the freedom to pursue the highs of the A.

Finally... do you think he really does have NPD? Because if that is the case, I just want to gently push you on why you want to stay married to him... I have known a couple of people with NPD, one married to my very good friend (now Ded) and I worked for one... I'm wondering if in the long term it makes sense to stay married to someone who has such difficulties with empathy. I just want you to re-read this post of yours from a couple of days ago:

Originally Posted by Pommy99
[Everything I’ve read so far rings so true about how he has treated me throughout our marriage. It’s jaw-droppingly accurate. And it makes me realise that this isn’t all my fault, and that he will take all these traits into his next relationship. I can fix me, but I can’t fix him. And whilst he’s the way he is, I don’t know if I want to be in a relationship with him. This isn’t about the way he’s treated me in the last year, it’s all the years prior to that. I feel that this separation might be as much my way of escaping as it is his.

I would spend some time on this.

I know this is awful. I will probably be in a very similar situation myself shortly as H is most likely to want to move to the basement rather than get his own place and I'm trying to think through how to keep that separate enough so that we can actually be separated, not just him sleeping in the basement but still spending time up here.

Hang in there.


Me (46) H (42)
M:14 T:18, D9 & D11
4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs
9/20 - present: R and piecing
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Originally Posted by Caligirl
No it is not about D15. He wants more time to see how green the grass is without having to give up his “family” life . If you agree to this he just got another 6 months of doing exactly what he’s been doing with you saying ok to it . I like how they throw in we both will be living single - trying to get you to participate.

Thanks for your thoughts Caligirl. This is really hard. I feel I know what his game is. However, I also feel that 5 months of my life at 49 is pretty insignificant - 5 months of h3ll wont really impact my future, my educational or career opportunities. I can keep the status quo at work, I can tick over and do my job. But for her, these 5 months are critical and could have so much impact on her future.

I am recognising that part of the reason I want him to leave now is so that he can experience what will initially be an ugly reality of what he is creating, that he won’t have the luxury of waiting patiently for a better rental property to come up; that when he says he wants to leave us, he doesn’t then get to choose if that’s in 6 days or 6 months. I know all of this is an emotional reaction, and it’s a bitter one. I probably need to step back.

Some days I feel more detached and numb than others. Some days I think I could handle this for a few more months and some days I can’t. It’s really hard.


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Jan 2020
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Pommy99 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by may22
Also, if he's in the same place as my H, he hasn't taken actual steps to leave because he's scared. He may be just as scared as you are of ending the M and actually separating-- he also just has this other big driver that is pushing him to leave that you don't have (the OW), whether she's actually encouraging him to do so or he just wants the freedom to pursue the highs of the A.

May I’m so sorry once again you are in this. Yes, I think there is fear, I am all he’s known for 19years. And there is guilt about the devastation he will cause. I’m not even sure if the EAP is an issue any more. I don’t ask and it’s really because I feel we are way beyond her being an influence. He’s leaving, and that’s that.

Quote
Finally... do you think he really does have NPD? Because if that is the case, I just want to gently push you on why you want to stay married to him... I have known a couple of people with NPD, one married to my very good friend (now Ded) and I worked for one... I'm wondering if in the long term it makes sense to stay married to someone who has such difficulties with empathy

I’m struggling with this. He ticks so many boxes of NPD. However, there can be a fine line between some of what is considered narcissistic and what is self-confidence. I also wonder if some of the traits are simply as a result of the dynamics in our marriage... it’s difficult to differentiate between cause and effect: does he act in such a way because of how I have treated him, or vice-versa. Empathy is one thing he lacks....but is it because our emotional connection has been eroded so badly that we sought to,protect ourselves from each other and blocked each other out? Whatever it is/ was, historically we have been in a bad place. His current behaviours are toxic ....but really no different to many other WAS on here.

He is away now, but I have had affectionate texts today expressing his sadness, fear, pain. I try not to read anything into them...has he changed his mind etc. I know that after a year, that is not going to happen. But again, he is talking about needing time to think, and worrying about the children. For once I feel quite detached and have not let the emotional pull from him bring me down. I have validated like mad. He’s asking me over and over if I’m ok! I’m not sure if he wants me to admit I feel terrible or if he’s worried that I might actually be ok and ready to move on. (He did catch me on my laptop yesterday on a divorce calculator website, and I think he overheard me on the phone arranging a house valuation. I also saw a solicitor yesterday, which I haven’t told him about, but he may have guessed)


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
Joined: Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by may22

Think about that. How could you POSSIBLY imagine that the excitement and fun you see with your "friend" can come back into your R with your H? It is like a drug. I mean... I get it! It probably *does* feel like a missing puzzle piece. It just isn't real.


Very well said on all of that post, and this part in particular is spot-on. He's in a fog. He will hopefully emerge from it some day, but it could be a year, or even several years before it happens. Google "limerence", he is heavily in it right now and it will take quite some time for that to wear off and reality to set in. When it does he will still have a ways to go before hitting bottom, and THEN he may start to do the hard work on himself. Only after that will genuine recon possibly be an option.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Quick question please if someone can advise. I have not been initiating R talks. I’m finding now that H is approaching me far more, wanting to talk about it. I am trying to listen and validate like mad. He tells me he is feeling low, mixed up, full of doubt [about leaving], or alternatively that he knows leaving is the right thing to do, and why. He is being more open and honest with me than he has been for years. But when he asks me “how are you feeling”, what approach should I take? Do i be honest and tell him I feel like sh1t most of the time, or do I say I’m ok and feeling good? I just don’t know what the best response is. When he is working away he always txts me and asks how I am, and it’s easy to be upbeat and pretend I’m doing good . But when we have the “proper” talks, should I be honest and share my true feelings?


M:49 H:49
T:20 M:18
D:16 D:14

EA: Feb 2019-May 2020
Separated: Mar-early Aug 2020
H asked to reconcile: Jun 2020
EA relapse: Oct/Nov 2020
Recon #2: since Nov 2020
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