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Battling Forward Part2

Where I am - Reflecting on all the recent comments, gyming hard and doing things I wasn't even comfortable with as a PT, reading books recommended by R2C.

New events, my Apple books auto shared to all devices so W knows what I've been reading....thankfully DB I read a paper version. W was disrespectful again during an innocent chat, I didn't get deep in an R chat however I let her know its not acceptable. I received an excuse for the behavior. W talked about her feelings, I validated. Comments from W in terms of D, reconcile, future, being out of love, etc. were not brought up sans one saying we arent even friends right now.

I'm backing off. Focusing back inward and on the kids.

Last edited by job; 01/05/20 04:24 PM. Reason: Posters link did not work...replaced with proper link

H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
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C,

So your C wants you to let your W know that her feelings are invalid and wrong.

Let me tell you a story that happen to me 15 years ago.

My ex and I were having a difficult time having children after trying for years. During this time my sister announced she was pregnant. I was happy for my sister but my wife was actually mad about it. We got into a big argument with me telling her she shouldn't feel that way and it was wrong. Anyway fast forward 15 years and every version told to someone of why she wanted a D (and there are several versions) includes that story.

Something to think about.

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Interesting to hear the perspective of your IC relating to DB. Mine is anti DB in their opinion and experience, I should have R chats to clear up W's festering resentments and to set the record straight on things that didnt happen (rewriting of the past stuff, or miscommunications).


Do you think those R chats will clear up her resentments? I suggest reading more. Resentments take a long time to build, and a long time to heal in a way that weakens the emotional response that comes with it.

"Setting the record straight" haha oh lord!!! Don't try this unless you are a glutton for punishment. Now is certainly not the time. The time for this talk may never come. Are you ok with that? Will it bug you forever? Can the right....attitude...overcome that? Up to you....

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How long did it take to rebuild your PMA? I'm there with you, I had that and confidence in spades before I shifted focus and lost the alpha.


I'm still doing it. Every day I have to prove it to myself.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Ovr, great point on resentment. And the point applies to people's sitches in general. Sitches don't happen over night, it takes a long time to build to BD. Then we want to just do a few things to fix it, overnight. It doesn't happen like that.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Oh man oh man oh man! Let's clear up wife's resentments by pointing out to her that they are all wrong, LOL! That is just some REALLY bad advice there. Even in a healthy relationship that would be a terrible thing to do! Your W's resentments, whatever they are, are very real to her. Let me give an example that I have read many times on these forums over the years:

Situation: Husband works late every night.

Husband's view: He's sacrificing the home life he would prefer to have to provide for the family and he feels his wife should appreciate him for that. He gets home and she's cranky from watching the kids. She "throws" the kids at him at a time he is ready to kick back and relax. He resents that she doesn't seem to appreciate how hard he is working to provide for the family. He expresses his resentment by complaining about how dirty the house is, how cold the food is, how he has to do everything when he gets home. On top of everything else she never wants to have sex!

Wife's view: Husband is "never home". He works all the time, doesn't help with the kids, expects her to take care of EVERYTHING at home PLUS have food on the table whenever he decides to show up. Then he gets angry when she tries to take a break once he finally does get home. On top of everything else, he expects her to drop everything and have sex when he doesn't even bother to tell her she looks pretty or even send her any kind of a nice text all day because he's "too busy". He says he does it to provide, but who cares? Does he really think money is more important than a loving family?

OK so now that you know how both of them are feeling, answer these questions:

1. Who is right and who is wrong?
2. Is the answer for one of them to point out to the other how their perception is wrong?

^^^THIS is how marriages fall apart. Resentment builds on both sides, and both feel like the other doesn't understand their side. Often the only difference between a WAS and LBS is who dropped the bomb first. Almost always, both have been thinking about it for a long time. But once one drops the bomb, it triggers regret in the other and then they end up here telling their story.

What each of us should strive for is to never let it get to this point to begin with. COMMUNICATION is the solution. The two should sit down together and make a JOINT decision on these matters without blame.

W: Can we talk about your work hours? It is putting a huge strain on me that you are working late all the time.
H: You are right, I feel the pressure as well. I would rather be home, but felt like I had to do this to provide for us.
W: I understand you feel the need to provide and I appreciate that about you. But maybe there's a compromise we can make.
H: I could insist on working less OT, but it may hurt my chances for a promotion.
W: I feel our family life should be more important than the promotion, how do you feel?
H: Hmmm, maybe you're right. All these hours are killing me anyway, what point is getting a promotion if I am never home and am miserable all the time.
W: I fully support you in this. If I need to quit my part time job and take a full time job so you can spend more time at home then I think that would benefit us all.
H: You don't know how much I appreciate that, but first let me cut back on my hours and we will see how things go.

THIS is how they taught us to communicate in Retrouvaille. Listen, validate, communicate, negotiate. I really wish I had been taught it 30 years ago, I would have been a much more effective husband.

Bottom line- respect your W's feelings even if you don't agree with them. She sees things differently than you, but that doesn't make her version of events wrong.

LH's example really hits home, I can think of a few such examples from my marriage as well and man do I wish I could get a redo on that. Instead of telling my XW how "wrong" her feelings were I would have listened, validated and supported her.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander

LH's example really hits home, I can think of a few such examples from my marriage as well and man do I wish I could get a redo on that. Instead of telling my XW how "wrong" her feelings were I would have listened, validated and supported her.


Yes, we've all made this mistake! Either in the marriage, or in our sitch, especially at the beginning. I know that in my sitch, for those two days were I hadn't remembered DBing at the beginning, I did quite a bit of this. You vets are right.....it did nothing but confirm to my W that I was the jerk H she thought I was, and that she was right to want out and to move on.

Core, listen to this advice. Perception is reality. Those resentments are her perception. Whether they are truly accurate or not doesn't matter because it is her reality.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
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Oh the irony floating around here. I've been told several times that my perceptions were wrong and it just served to cheese me off. it actually proves AS and Steve's point though.

But no one is immune to doing it. We all do it (even now) We as humans tend to dismiss others perspectives. However, you have to be mindful of when it come up so you can disengage from that pattern.

I question your IC's advice and would start looking around for someone else. You can, of course, do what you want, but you also aren't stuck with the first IC you see. You are free to try someone else who's view fits in with yours better.

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Originally Posted by Mario
Oh the irony floating around here. I've been told several times that my perceptions were wrong and it just served to cheese me off. it actually proves AS and Steve's point though.


There is a big difference in being told by strangers on the internet that your perception is skewed, as opposed to a LBS that is trying to reconcile telling that to their WAS. That is why people come here, to get their thinking, their thoughts, their perceptions, their perspective adjusted.

But a WAS does not want to here from their LBS that their feelings are wrong. If you could get the WAS to listen to an objective third party there might be a chance, but even then they'd probably buck it.


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Disagree. it doesn't matter if its a friend, spouse, enemy or stranger. If you get into the habit of dismissing people's perceptions, you are more likely to do it to everyone. The business world is full of talk of emotional intelligence these days. This is right in line with that idea.

Most people don't want to hear that their perceptions are wrong. It's not just a WAS. Don't believe me. Try it on your W tonight. tell us how it goes.

My message to Core would be this is something that he can work on with this W and other people. This is a skill that we all need to develop regardless of what happens in our M.

I'm not to proud to admit my own mistake with this with my W. My W didn't like my brothers fiancé. I kept telling her she was wrong to not like her and that she needed to get over it. How do you think that went? I have since apologized for minimizing her feelings (Well before the BD) but I know she still remembers it.

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Again, I am not disagreeing with you. At all. But when someone goes to people for objectivity, that is what they should be given. LBSs come here all the time wanting to pressure and pursue. Feeling like they need to be talking to their WAS about the situation all the time. We could tell them what they want to hear and watch them walk right into a D, or we can tell them what gives them a better chance at eventually Ring.

I was not advocating any married person doing "It's not just a WAS. Don't believe me. Try it on your W tonight. tell us how it goes." That is how you end up with a WAS!

I agree that Core should be practicing validation of feelings...in all walks of life, to exercise that muscle. But if he comes here thinking he won't get objectivity himself then I don't know why he would post here.

"I'm not to proud to admit my own mistake with this with my W. My W didn't like my brothers fiancé. I kept telling her she was wrong to not like her and that she needed to get over it. How do you think that went? I have since apologized for minimizing her feelings (Well before the BD) but I know she still remembers it."

Yep. Did similar stuff. It is not the right approach at all for a S. However, if your W went to a forum online and said "I don't like my BiL's fiance, how should i deal with it." I see no problem with that forum giving her a dose of objectivity. That is what we are. My point was that when you said:

"Oh the irony floating around here. I've been told several times that my perceptions were wrong and it just served to cheese me off. it actually proves AS and Steve's point though."

Getting told HERE that your perceptions are skewed is not the same as a S telling their S they are. Or a coworker telling a coworker that. Or -insert any real life example you want here-. But on this forum we tend to give 2x4s to help a LBS get their thinking right. Some don't like the bluntness. I've often told the posters here in their threads, if you don't like what I say tell me to kick rocks and I will move on to the threads that do appreciate it.

But one thing I will NOT tolerate is someone else telling me in another poster's thread not to be blunt. Being blunt, straight-forward and objective is for the OP's benefit. And if another poster doesn't like it...tough. (Unless that other poster is job or cadet! LOL)


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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