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Originally Posted by wayfarer
I feel like every damn day it's something new with him. And once I've learned how to ignore one behavior he starts a new weird one that makes me feel like a detachment failure.

It's like they know when you've mastered some small aspect of internal calm and have to mix it up right away—can't have that!

Originally Posted by wayfarer
But sometimes I feel like what’s the point of standing at all. So few people reconcile. And from what I can see anecdotally it looks like WW seem to come back far more often than a WH.


Seems like one day I read about more WH's returning than WW, then the opposite. And I cycle through these thoughts too. I think I would be questioning my decision a LOT more if I knew there was an OW in my sitch. I imagine I would be detaching big time because I would be so angry. It's hard to know, of course, what I would do. As you say, some days your feelings are all over the place. That seems completely normal, though not pleasant. I can imagine a vet stepping in and saying time will reveal your own answers to these questions you're asking. Not sure if I have that right, though!

Sending hugs, wayfarer.


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Originally Posted by cardinal
Seems like one day I read about more WH's returning than WW, then the opposite. And I cycle through these thoughts too. I think I would be questioning my decision a LOT more if I knew there was an OW in my sitch. I imagine I would be detaching big time because I would be so angry.

OW or not, you should be detaching big time! I love what Steve85 once said, you want to reach that place where you wouldn’t even be shocked if your H comes home and tells you that they’ve had an orgy with 10 women. For some reason that line stuck with me. Lol!!!!

Last edited by wooba; 01/22/20 04:58 AM.

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Originally Posted by cardinal
I think I would be questioning my decision a LOT more if I knew there was an OW in my sitch. I imagine I would be detaching big time because I would be so angry. It's hard to know, of course, what I would do. As you say, some days your feelings are all over the place. That seems completely normal, though not pleasant. I can imagine a vet stepping in and saying time will reveal your own answers to these questions you're asking. Not sure if I have that right, though!

Sending hugs, wayfarer.



As this isn't my first rodeo with a less than stellar partner, I can tell you from experience detachment can't come from a place of anger. If there's anger there, you aren't detached. The last one's mistress was booze and pills. But he was a walking giant red flag, from day one, that in my teen hormone addled, not fully formed frontal lobe brain thought I could save and he could save me. And that was a vastly different story than the one I'm in now.

The truth is OW doesn't bother me. The affair really truly doesn't bother me. Infidelity was never a deal breaker for me. H wasn't privy to that info but that's the truth of the matter. Infidelity happens all the time. People get past it all the time. With and without DBing or other methods. I was a cheater. Granted my ex was a pretty awful person. But the LBS is hardly ever the real reason behind the cheating. It's always trying to fill holes with another person. It's resting hope in a physical form, while in the back of your mind knowing damn well you don't have a chance in hell of this ending with hope.

I've been my H. Hell I've been OW. Not in this marriage. But I've been them. And all I have for them both is empathy. And to continue with my frankness I told both of them that at one point or another. For better or worse. These things die. And they don't die quietly. And they don't die easily. And it's awful to have to mourn something you thought was the world, the light at the end of your tunnel only to realize that light was you setting you're whole world on fire and your tunnel vision let you ignore that you burnt it all to the ground. It's awful to mourn what you thought was your life raft and watching the dinghy and the ship going down in front of you knowing it was you that sunk both. My H is lost. He's been lost. He will continue to be lost. He has so much he's shoved down being the "good vibes only" guy. The holes he's filling are chasms. OW is a sad girl, who is my age, no kids, never married, no degree, and so insecure that she has to chase after a married man. I have nothing but empathy and maybe condescendingly a little pity for them both.

What drives my anger, my sadness, my hurt, my swings, my inability to detach, is the stranger that I'm living with. He engages my fear, my insecurities, my childhood and past relationship issues. He took the one thing in my life I thought was safe. The first home in my whole life I've felt completely secure in and burnt it to ashes, and has the audacity to look me in the face and say "I just don't think we can make each other happy. I just want us both to be happy." When only a few months ago we were half naked on a beach drunk and couldn't get enough of each other. What's killing me is him making me feel like the last 7 years of my life were a complete lie. Like our entire relationship up to BD was all in my head, like a silly little school girl.With that his vilification of me, his rewriting of history, his constant pendulous swing from her to us, living his life as if he isn't married but when I say "hey just let me know if you're coming back tonight don't want to not set the alarm and leave the lights on if you're not" and his response is "I'll be home." Home. HOME. He'll be home. How are you out there living like I don't exist? Like I'm not home with a child that I didn't birth while you do as you please, but still call the place we sleep your home? That right there is why I struggle to detach.

That being said, I've had a few good days. His date night Tuesday. Great night with the kids, and I fell sound asleep before he came home. Yesterday enjoyed his company while he gave it to me. I have plans all weekend. My old goals when I first read DR were to communicate better, to be open and honest with each other, to keep my emotions in check with him. At this point we are so far beyond any of that being a long sustaining option, my little goals are now not analyzing every "good" thing he's doing, keeping him guessing, and letting him be open and honest about where he's going and what he's doing with out reacting. With a bigger goal of going a whole week with out him throwing me into turmoil. I've been struggling with trying to be perfectly detached and an amazing DBer. I realized after reading Stages for the LBS it's a process, and in reality this is all very very new. Only like 2 months. It's a marathon not a sprint. I gotta feel those feelings and move through them not around them. I need to work through my grief over this MR, and who H used to be. I need to accept that's gotta happen before perfection at detachment and none of this comes overnight. But I'm still in this. And messy emotions and confusion are ok. I love him, even this broken selfish version of himself. I still want to fight for my family and my marriage. And battered and broken as I feel some days I'm still standing, perfectly imperfect.

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That post was profound, Wayfarer.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Let me echo sandi, wayfarer—I found this post so insightful. (And thought—if only our H's could reach this kind of insight! smile )

Originally Posted by wayfarer
What's killing me is him making me feel like the last 7 years of my life were a complete lie. Like our entire relationship up to BD was all in my head, like a silly little school girl.

This is what I come back to as well. The questioning and doubting of what I thought I knew.

Originally Posted by wayfarer
I need to work through my grief over this MR, and who H used to be. I need to accept that's gotta happen before perfection at detachment and none of this comes overnight. But I'm still in this. And messy emotions and confusion are ok. I love him, even this broken selfish version of himself. I still want to fight for my family and my marriage. And battered and broken as I feel some days I'm still standing, perfectly imperfect.


Yes, yes, you are. Thank you for sharing these words, wayfarer.


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Just journaling: I don’t miss him when he’s not here. I don’t panic when he’s gone any more. It’s like snow in January. It just is. What’s rough now is missing him when he’s here. I hate seeing him within an arms length of me and knowing he won’t reach out to touch me, and I couldn’t possibly reach out to him. Not when he makes us dinner. Not when he helps around the house, because I know it’s just part of the at home show. I do wonder how long I’ll be able to not be bothered by the comings and goings. I’ll find out I guess. If nothing else all of this is going to drill patience into me.

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Oh I feel you. I miss my H when he’s here. Even though I know it’s the shell of him. The inside is different somehow. I refrain myself from touching him, holding him, giving him lovey googly eyes.

It’s like looking at my children’s baby pictures. I wish I could go back there but I can’t.


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I have said this before, but I think it bears repeating. I am astounded at what some of the LBWs in this forum are willing to put up with and still hold on to dear life to their WAHs! If I pulled some of the things these WAHs have I would be out of my butt so fast it would make my head spin.

Which is probably a big reason I don't. Something to think about.

Last edited by Steve85; 01/27/20 02:10 PM.

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Originally Posted by Steve85
I have said this before, but I think it bears repeating. I am astounded at what some of the LBWs in this forum are willing to put up with and still hold on to dear life to their WAHs! If I pulled some of the things these WAHs have I would be out of my butt so fast it would make my head spin.

Which is probably a big reason I don't. Something to think about.


The fact is I had a traumatic childhood, so my threshold for crappy behavior is incredibly high. Then you know I had an addict in my life for years and years, so my ability to forgive those who don't deserve it or haven't asked for it tends to also be a higher threshold than most.

If his daughter didn't live with us full time he would be out. Either by my choice or his. But he can't afford to set up a 2nd household yet, and I won't make her couch surf. He's using that to his advantage. He knows no matter what happens I'll put the kids first. Even if it means him coming and going as he pleases. I can't legally remove him. I won't help him with moving costs. And his so deep in his own $hit that any boundaries I set he'll walk right through.

I'm not chasing after his crumbs any more and while everyday I'm just about ready to give up on him, I'm not ready to give up on this marriage. We've only been in this place a few months. And that in the grand scheme of a lifetime is a blip. If this is just a blip or who he is now only time will tell. So I have to be patient, and put up with more than most people probably would so I can figure it out.

Last edited by wayfarer; 01/27/20 02:42 PM.
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wayfarer, saw this quote recently. Think it might be appropriate here. Don't know who to attribute it to:

"The road to failure is paved with excuses."


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