I've been lurking for a while. Picked up DR at the suggestion of a couples counselor we saw for discernment counseling. I've been working my way through. But a little history. H 37, I'm 36. We've been together almost 7 years, married almost 3. We each have one D from previous relationships my D 17 his D 15. Both are with us full time. All of this happened so fast and so furious I've been in a whirlwind of crisis and grief. On Oct 5 of this year we were in the Caribbean for a wedding and our lives, our sex life, and our marriage seemed great. By Nov 5th I already knew we were in trouble. He had changed his hair. Decided to run a marathon. Started hitting the gym hard. We stopped being intimate physically and emotionally. He kept meeting w/ a friend I had never met before for lunch. Stopped contacting me during the work day. And then the phone bill came. Confronted him twice about his EA with proof. After weeks of trying to make me think I was crazy, insecure, if there was anything going on it would be my fault, blah, blah, blah, the usual cheaters check list. He finally admitted it after Thanksgiving, but flat out told me he wasn't going to stop. Things had been tense, but I had been able to keep home life fairly normal. We had a calm talk about our options after this. He was leaning toward divorce. I was leaning toward trying to save our marriage and keeping our family in tact. He was vehemently opposed to the suggestion of a structured open marriage (apparently he's allowed to do things I am not). But in the end he said he wanted to at least try and would agree to IC and MC. Then I caught him trying to meet OW in a very public place during Xmas shopping time. I definitely raged a bit. Not my finest hour, I'll admit that, but screaming at him how the bleep he thinks they're going to skip off into the sunset hand in hand when she's got someone at home waiting for her too was cathartic none the less. Things got much worse after that. I completely went dark and he just mirrored the behavior. I changed our counseling appointment to a discernment appointment. We didn't speak a work to each other until that day. Then fought over the session and everything else ever for 2 1/2 hours after. Tension was definitely increasing day by day. Dec 23rd, I broke down and gave in. After a lot of thinking told him I'll give him the space and time he needs, but he's on the couch until the OW stuff is over. And I won't be waiting him out forever. That I want my marriage and my family, but I'm done talking to a brick wall, he wants me he can let me know. That I didn't want to do another discernment appointment as we were both rushing to two different finish lines and neither one of us had really sat in our grief, anger, or this mess for very long for either of us to know what we really wanted. He would have to tell me where he was even if he was with her because him disappearing for hours when our kids aren't babies is difficult to explain away, and we could at least agree on a lie for the girls for now. He agreed with all of it. And we set a date to revisit our mess on Mar 1 if he doesn't engage a R talk before then.
Through some individual counseling and a really strong support system and, soooo much reading and research have been able to work on GAL like crazy, which was super hard as I've been dealing with clinical depression and grief for about a year. But it's helped so much with the anxiety this was causing. Through trial and error I've learned 'lovingly detaching' vs full on shut down has better results. As a pursuer I thought that kind of 180 is what needed to be done but I was so wrong. Being a cordial roommate thus far has been what's been working best. He was wonderful during Christmas week. Home. Kind. Engaged. Called me pet names. But Dec 30th he went completely silent again. Was unaccounted for 5ish hours. No clue where he was or who he was with on NYE but he came home. He always comes home. NYD he wanted to go to brunch as a family. Wanted to watch a movie and have a nice dinner at home as a family. They are talking less from what I can see. He switched from text to FB messaging at some point, because he thought that meant I won't know. But he doesn't realize I can see data usage in real time. If you use 68,000kb at work you're not streaming, it's pretty obvious what you're doing. Since the day after Christmas his data usage dropped dramatically. I've been able to be more clear headed and better at being receptive vs reactive when he does want to chat like we're pals. But honestly riding this roller coaster with him is exhausting. I don't know if this is like an early MLC, or a mental break, him just being selfish, or his immature way of acting out because of needs that weren't being met that I didn't know about. He over the course of this has said, he loves me but isn't in love with me, loves both me and the OW, has no romantic feelings for either of us, and will always love me but doesn't deserve me right now. I struggle daily with convincing myself that none of this is my fault, when I know my mother's passing and depression prior and post that death was hard for him. I know we didn't have a perfect marriage prior, but I thought it was good. Right now he's with my D shopping at the outlets, and they had lunch. He stopped by my mother's grave to see if they finally put in the head stone. I didn't ask him to do that. Yesterday he took the kids for dinner while I was at IC and was incredibly concerned if I had eaten or not. Every single day he's a different person and it's exhausting to know how high I need to make my walls that day. How long I need to keep the kids out of the house because I don't know where he is. If attempting to wait him out makes me seem like a doormat. GAL and a crap ton of self care keeps me out of my head most of the time. But man, lying in bed at night after a good day I start panicking about the next bad one. After a bad one I panicking that we'll never have another good one. I've told my best friend that this is like when I'm having a bad time with one of the girls. You know the hormonally charged teenagers. I don't know what will set him off that makes him check out, much less what makes him check back in. I don't know what kind of energy I'm going to get back no matter how measured I am. I feel like I'm white knuckling every day. And it's all so new I don't know what the new normal for us is, or if any of the decisions, actions and reactions I'm making are the right ones.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Every single day he's a different person and it's exhausting to know how high I need to make my walls that day. How long I need to keep the kids out of the house because I don't know where he is. If attempting to wait him out makes me seem like a doormat.
First off, I'm sorry that you are here. But you do have a great support system here so yes, do come here to vent!
I don't even know how you're doing it, because my sons are much younger and I already feel like it's sooo hard sometimes to keep up the front... yet your daughters are much older and I'm sure much more perceptive to the new dynamic in your M.
Keep your walls the same height. That's what detaching is all about, doesn't matter what kind of person he is today, you behave the same way. If he's being a good H and father today, be lovingly detached. If he's being an a**hole the next day, be lovingly detached. Aim at keeping your PMA everyday. Stay strong.
I don't even know how you're doing it, because my sons are much younger and I already feel like it's sooo hard sometimes to keep up the front... yet your daughters are much older and I'm sure much more perceptive to the new dynamic in your M.
Keep your walls the same height. That's what detaching is all about, doesn't matter what kind of person he is today, you behave the same way. If he's being a good H and father today, be lovingly detached. If he's being an a**hole the next day, be lovingly detached. Aim at keeping your PMA everyday. Stay strong.
The 17yo knows some. She has a super high EQ and was asking what was up before I was ready. She knows we are struggling and he’s more to blame which is why he’s on the couch. She’s confident we’re having a rough patch and we’ll get through it. The 15yo is, bless her heart, in her own little world most of the time (think Luna Lovegood) and hasn’t even noticed him sleeping on the couch. Explaining where he is when he’s gone for hours upon hours or rolls in at 4 am more than once a week is a little harder.
As far as the walls go. Logically I know. Protect my head and my heart first. But I struggle when I see the person he was just a few short months ago.
And thank you Woosa. I appreciate the encouragement
He disappeared for roughly 12 hours yesterday. His D was with her mom for the weekend. Mine was with me part of the day, but then off with her best friend. He was completely dark on social media which is not like him at all. I went from distraught, to livid, to calm but never contacted him. I could see him popping on and off FB so I knew he wasn’t dead or injured. My friend came to get me. Forced me out if the house so I wouldn’t sit in this. Or wait for him. I got home after bar close and he was home. Car hood was cool. He didn’t hear me come in and was in the bathroom. He had to work at 4am today. He came out and nearly had a heart attack. With a couple drinks in me I just laughed, said good night and went to bed. The genuine shock in his face after that was priceless. I’m stuck with wondering if I should pick the boundary fight since he agreed specifically to not disappearing for hours, with the consideration that the last time I brought it up the conversation immediately became a conversation about how controlling and nit picky I am, or do I let it be and refuse to acknowledge his ridiculous adolescent boundary pushing? I don’t know that I want him to have the satisfaction of knowing it got under my skin or give him another opportunity to use how controlling I am. But then am I a doormat?
I would sleep on it Wayfarer and think about what your goals are. What do you hope to achieve by “picking the boundary fight”? Personally, if I were you, I wouldn’t even let on that I had noticed he was gone. And I would double down on my GAL activities and stop checking to see what he is doing or not doing on SM. Honestly...why drive yourself crazy like that? And why should you have to explain where he is? I think he can explain that himself if your Ds want to know. If they ask you, you can be honest and just say he went out and didn’t tell you where he was going.
That look of shock on his face when he saw you and you just laughed and went to bed? THAT’s what you want. You want to challenge his ideas about you. Remember...he’s not doing this to get under your skin or expose you as a controlling person. He’s just doing what he feels like doing.
You set a March 1st date to revisit things. What can you do between now and then to GAL and do the 180s you need to do for you so that if he decides to ask you for a D, you will be in a better place to deal with it. That’s what you should be focusing on right now.
Sorry. I know this is hard. The more you can keep the focus on you and your Ds, the better off you will be. (((HUGS)))
I would sleep on it Wayfarer and think about what your goals are. What do you hope to achieve by “picking the boundary fight”? Personally, if I were you, I wouldn’t even let on that I had noticed he was gone. And I would double down on my GAL activities and stop checking to see what he is doing or not doing on SM. Honestly...why drive yourself crazy like that? And why should you have to explain where he is? I think he can explain that himself if your Ds want to know. If they ask you, you can be honest and just say he went out and didn’t tell you where he was going.
I did sleep on it, twice, I left it alone yesterday, and I'm not bringing up his crappy behavior, because that's exactly what he wants me to do. I'd rather him wonder why I didn't set his crap on fire on the front lawn and am acting like nothing happened. The only thing I hoped to achieve is not coming off like he can do anything he wants and I'm ok with it. Because I'm not. His MLC is BS, and his behavior is deplorable.The other point is he made an agreement to tell me where he's going even if he's not coming home, even if he's with the OW, or at the very least lie, so I'm not the one explaining his crappy behavior. So letting him explain himself to the girls is probably the best compromise to creating a boundary here, "If you can't abide by our agreement and try to keep things calm and predictable for the girls then you will have to explain where you are. I'm not lying or making excuses for you," kind of thing.
I stayed away from social media and phone records for about 8 hours of no contact. After that point it was more if seeing if he was alive. He is a social media wh**e. Always has been. The fact that he posted absolutely nothing in the last 48-72 hours is completely and totally out of character for him even in this fun new phase of life. He's the type to post like 4 or 5 times a day on multiple platforms. He loves the attention.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
That look of shock on his face when he saw you and you just laughed and went to bed? THAT’s what you want. You want to challenge his ideas about you. Remember...he’s not doing this to get under your skin or expose you as a controlling person. He’s just doing what he feels like doing.
He is doing what he feels like doing, but a lot of his behavior is to goad me into being the person he's presented me as to OW. There have been a lot of "you always" " you never" accusations pointed at me. If I question literally anything it's me being controlling. I'd love to say this is solely him just doing whatever he wants to do, but it's not. He's been trying to bait me in fights, bait me into kicking him out, and the behavior he thinks he has me pegged for, so he can prove I'm the bad guy here. As unkind as this is he's a coward by nature, even before all this, he never wanted to deal with looking like the problem. At this point anything I do that will make him look justified and not like the bad guy here is exactly what he wants.
I am working hard on GAL and 180 but as I've said coming out of depression none of this is easy or quick. I do have plenty to do. I have 2 teenagers that don't drive. I'm working on getting into a master's program, started a dance class, started running again. But I'm a homebody by nature. I would love to just be home and read my book and that really may be part of why I'm struggling. Keeping the girls out, and going, going, going, drains me and makes it difficult for me to detach appropriately. Honestly I'd be fine with either the D or R. I know that sounds unreasonable, because I see lot of people are super resistant to moving on. Don't get me wrong, I love him and want to save my marriage, but I know I can't, and won't live like this forever. I deserve more than this. At the very least D or R is definitive. It's living in limbo like this and wondering if he'll snap out of this or if this time period and that last 7 years of my life have been a complete waste is what's awful.
He is doing what he feels like doing, but a lot of his behavior is to goad me into being the person he's presented me as to OW. There have been a lot of "you always" " you never" accusations pointed at me. If I question literally anything it's me being controlling. I'd love to say this is solely him just doing whatever he wants to do, but it's not. He's been trying to bait me in fights, bait me into kicking him out, and the behavior he thinks he has me pegged for, so he can prove I'm the bad guy here. As unkind as this is he's a coward by nature, even before all this, he never wanted to deal with looking like the problem. At this point anything I do that will make him look justified and not like the bad guy here is exactly what he wants.
This paragraph is troubling because none of it matters. He is going to tell OW awful stuff about you, whether or not you give into his goading! You could be Mother Teresa.....but to her he will present you as Jezebel. You can't worry about that, or what he tells OW.
However, you are right in that any bad behavior on your part is going to justify, in his mind, that he is right in wanting to leave. That is why DBing is about NOT doing that. You mention GAL and 180s. Those are great. But the real money is in detachment. Because then you will not react emotionally to what he says or does.
I've put it this way to other posters: The goal with detachment is that he could come to you and tell you "Please stop what you are doing, I need to tell you something. Last night I had an orgy with 10 women." and your reaction would be "Oh...ok." And then to go back to what you are doing. As Deja said, NOT reacting the way you normally do is what will really get him to wonder what is going on. That is why detachment is brilliant. You don't react. He starts to question things. And you get peace of mind no matter what he says or does!
Now GAL and 180ing can help with that. Be busy! Be improving! Be working on yourself! Think about it this way. #1 rule in DBing: do not start R talks....if he does, listen and validate and end it as soon as you can.
He comes to you and says: "We need to discuss what to do with the dogs. I feel I should get them after the D." You: "So you feel the dogs should go with you?" Him: "Correct." You: "Ok, I need some time to consider that. In the meantime, I have some where to be, I'll have to get back to you on this later." Then go be busy!!
See? You listened. You validated. You didn't give him a definite answer, then you went and GAL.DBING!
Last edited by Steve85; 01/06/2005:04 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve I appreciate the feedback. You hit the nail on the head when you said the real money is in detachment. I know I'm really, really struggling there. He's in the home. He in fact, always comes home. He's on the couch. Not allowed any where near the MBR. But home. And I think the physical proximity makes it difficult. We're not exactly working with 3000 sq ft. On top of that he seems to have no intention of moving out any time soon, and a, frankly, vague interest in actually pursuing and filing a damn thing.
I just need to just buckle down and work at it everyday.
As far as relationship talks, made an agreement to not say a word about about the relationship until March 1st. Even if he can't be held accountable, I can. So mum's the word. I don't anticipate having any kind of conversation with him about that stuff any time soon. It's always business with the kids and the household when we do actually talk. And I've had a lot of chances to exercise validation and restraint because on his good days he likes to pretend we're friends and that I care about what ever work/friend/kid story he wants to tell me that day.
Lastly, the worrying about what he's saying. I'm trying very hard. And I'm failing. While I know I shouldn't care, my depression being ramped up starts to ramp up my anxiety and I worry what the ENTIRE world is thinking of me. When I'm balanced I'm the kind of girl who could give a flying flip about anyone else's opinion. Which brings us back to the detachment I guess. I've had my meds up, but it takes time. All of it takes time I guess.
Question, is it normal for the the GALing to piss the wayward spouse off? I've noticed he's been making some really snotty/passive aggressive comments about my running, my diet changes, and social media posts where I'm tagged out with friends (I am not like hanging on randos at the bar, I've mostly been 3rd wheeling with married friends, being in larger groups of married people, or with just my girl friends). I've been ignoring it. But yesterday he walked into the MBR and said "you bought a new scale?" (this thing was like $15 so it clearly wasn't about the money) I said "yup," and just kept eye contact. As much as I wanted to ask why I knew I shouldn't. After an uncomfortable amount of eye contact he finally broke gaze and said "oh" and turned around and walked out. It was a super weird interaction. I didn't think GAL would irritate him.
