Questions from a LBS 5 months in

[Kindly]

Thank you so much both ownit and peacetoday! Your reassurance and words of advice are right in line with my thinking and my heart. This is so calming for me in such a place of misalignment.

How you navigate depends on what you want and whether you risk anything by not acting now (which I now assume the LBS does in most cases).
If you don't want to help with the divorce or move it along and not doing so doesn't hurt you, then just respond and say hey I noticed you left a bunch of stuff off. Why don't you send me a complete form and when I get it, I'll go see a lawyer and respond. If it is serious, he should fill it out and send it to you. If it isn't you won't hear anything.

The above is exactly what I want to do...but a conversation took place a couple months ago where he was dumbfounded and angry that I would even bring up his business as an asset!!! And then to completely leave that off of discovery yet mention my pension ?? What the heck! I feel like I’m in for a nasty battle of words if I try to address this “amicably”.

Don't assume that because it is not complete that a lawyer didn't do it. Could be a sloppy lawyer or an untruthful husband (my vote is on the untruthful husband). Or to save costs the lawyer could have given him the form and said fill this out and give it to her. Unless you want no communication with him and you want to pay lawyers to talk to lawyers (something that makes me chill to the bone, but some prefer this), then don't care whether he drafted it or the lawyer did because you will never know. As 25yearmlc always quoted, constant wondering is constant suffering.

I like to do things that leave the ball in his court so he can't accuse me of stalling (even though he still does) or think I'm trying to hold onto him (which makes him feel safe and happy to stay in his mess). It also tells me when he is really committed to doing something.

I agree and vote untruthful H as well however I asked again and he responded with yes it’s the lawyers final draft and nothing should change but then said he’s certain it will go back and forth between lawyers what the heck does that mean? Why would he say that unless he knows it’s not accurate...? Anyway, the only reason I’m giving this my time is because I too cringe at the thought of not sorting this first stage out by ourselves and the $$$ for L...but how do I even approach that with the reaction I got 2 months ago? I’m trying to predict what I’m in for as soon as I say “hey you left some major assets off”...just for some further insight he also told OW In EA that I will get vindictive and come after the B. Am I best to bite the bullet and involve the lawyers now? Or how can I do this effectively and with the ball still in his court which I’m also a huge fan of cause I too am not being accused of moving this along!!

[Kindly]

Hi Kindly,

My vote...Untruthful MLC H...

My friend trusted her MLC H, and he made the papers himself to save money
she signed
She did lose everything including her home

This is awful!!

You may notice alcohol, later hours, spending, secretive calls and texts ect

get a free consult asap
stay calm as own said
don't be surprised if he tried to pressure you to agree or if he gets crazy or angry..

MLC are on their own plan right now and little concern for spouse or kids

Noticed all of the above behaviour. I’m on it, consulting now and realize staying calm is soooo important. Thanks for the warnings this all helps with what to possibly expect so I can prepare myself at least a little.
Sometimes when I read this stuff back the disbelief that this is happening overpowers....how can this alien not be awoken when S**t starts to get real? Sorry for the swear.
Thank you all so much.

[OwnIt]

I'm not saying not to see a lawyer, you absolutely should. But if you guys can be civil you can each talk to your own and deal with each other rather than adding to the cost and moving it along faster (unless that is what you want). His business is very likely an asset and should be included. Just get him to complete it. You don't need to say anything to him about the contents. When he comes back, if he does, take what he gives you to your lawyer and tell your lawyer about the business and anything else that should be there. Then, after your lawyer blesses it, take it back to him and say your lawyer made these changes.

[job]

Don't forget any IRA's, CD's, stocks and bonds that he has or you both have need to be addressed. Won't he have a pension when he is of retirement age? Your pension shouldn't be the only one addressed in discovery.

OwnIt has given you some very good advice. Give him the paperwork and have him complete it. If things are missing that should be addressed, point that out to your lawyer and let him/her address that with his lawyer.

I remember when I went through this and the minute my xh realized that he wasn't going to bully me into giving him everything he wanted...he went into major monster mode. He tried to everything from bullying to then switching to nice guy and when that didn't work...back to bullying. I'm not trying to scare you, but they usually do not wake up when the situation gets real. I haven't seen too many of them play nice when they realize that their wallet is being affect in a major way.

Stay strong and positive, and do not allow him to bully and/or threaten you with anything just to get his way. When speaking to him, stay on point, calm and look him in the eye.

[DS9]

Hi Kindly

Sorry you're going through all this.

Even though you're in the USA I assume (I'm in Oz), I'd be willing to bet the business is an asset. I'm positive your legislation would set out what are included as assets, financial resources and liabilities etc. A L can tell you straight away, so you dont have to try and guess.

Here in Oz it is clear if you know where to look. There are even fact sheets prepared by the relevant courts that set out these things, and set out how the spouses have duties to the COurt and one another to actively disclose their financial situation, as opposed to being chased and followed up by their spouse to reveal.

There may be similar fact sheets for your locale. I dont know. If there are, these can be used as an objective reference for your H, so rather than questions or comments coming from you, they are objective and what the law requires and more readily accepted.

I assume in USA you need to ascribe value to each asset? Businesses are hard to value. Here we have forensic accountants or business valuers. Your L may not be qualified to assess whether the business is worth what H says. You may wish to have the business properly valued for peace of mind. To me, your comment that he was dumbfounded and angry you even brought it up is telling - he likely wouldnt care if it wasnt worth anything.

Get L advice and get it early. Weigh up the potential $ cost for your L communicating everything on your behalf as against the cost to your emotional wellbeing and sanity in doing it yourself.

Good luck!

[Kindly]

Just get him to complete it. You don't need to say anything to him about the contents. When he comes back, if he does, take what he gives you to your lawyer and tell your lawyer about the business and anything else that should be there. Then, after your lawyer blesses it, take it back to him and say your lawyer made these changes.

Thx OwnIt...so I still have not actually retained anyone but in my consults I have been told that the B is definitely an asset. I’m wondering if I can bluff here as H knows I’m looking for a L ....could I just say I’ve been in consult with some lawyers and your form is incomplete? Then it’s back in his court and I’m not paying yet for this confusing mess? Or do I engage a lawyer to talk to his lawyer and get this worked out to protect myself should this keep rolling forward, then the lawyer is the bad guy kinda and not as much me ....I’m sooooo torn. Anyone been in a similar sitch? Sorry for the overthinking.

[Kindly]

Job...thank you. I feel like my H will react the same as how you describe your situation. I’ve already seen glimpses of that up and down manipulative nice then biting behaviour. I will prepare for monster mode and hope for the best.

[Kindly]

Thx for adding to my thread DS9...sorry you find yourself here as well.

Hi Kindly

Sorry you're going through all this.

Here in Oz it is clear if you know where to look. There are even fact sheets prepared by the relevant courts that set out these things, and set out how the spouses have duties to the COurt and one another to actively disclose their financial situation, as opposed to being chased and followed up by their spouse to reveal.

There may be similar fact sheets for your locale. I dont know. If there are, these can be used as an objective reference for your H, so rather than questions or comments coming from you, they are objective and what the law requires and more readily accepted.

You are bang on. I did a bunch more research over the last day and have found some legit documents stating that you can be charged for not disclosing accurate financial info or that doc will be void...this puts me in an awkward position. Do I continue to take the high road of kindness and point this out (from the law standpoint) and brace for Hs monster mode as well as potentially tipping him off to hide assets or react in any other negative way? Or hand over to L and potentially let him step in it for fraudulent claims on official doc? This is why my gut tells me his L did not fill this out. I know I can’t avoid it but I DO NOT want to be tricked into being the one that starts S/D process. He is the guy with a plan after all ....trying to be smart with a very clouded head. Thx for letting me lay it all out here.

I assume in USA you need to ascribe value to each asset? Businesses are hard to value. Here we have forensic accountants or business valuers. Your L may not be qualified to assess whether the business is worth what H says. You may wish to have the business properly valued for peace of mind. To me, your comment that he was dumbfounded and angry you even brought it up is telling - he likely wouldnt care if it wasnt worth anything.

Get L advice and get it early. Weigh up the potential $ cost for your L communicating everything on your behalf as against the cost to your emotional wellbeing and sanity in doing it yourself.

Good luck!

Currently researching more about forensic accountants because it’s $$$$$$ to get B evaluated. But if it must be done then it must be done. I have another consult and will now have some new questions to explore. It’s stressful but empowering and you make an excellent point about also considering sanity/ emotional well-being somewhere in this mix.

Thank you all as always.

[DS9]

Hey kindly

No worries my pleasure!

Frankly I’d hand the reins to your L to follow up with the disclosure, valuations etc. Your L can set out the obligations your h has and give a cordial reminder about the law. That gives a better level of separation between you and h and takes the pressure off you.

I get what you’re saying about keeping on the high road. But this is about your financial security and frankly it’s not your call whether or not he chooses to be open and frank with his financial position. Seriously, if you’re worried about undervalued assets, hidden assets etc tell your L now so they can take immediate steps to safeguard your position

I get it about saving costs with diy legal stuff but sometimes that’s false economy. Why not ask your L what groundwork you can actually do to save costs?

Cheers ds

[DnJ]

Good Morning Kindly

You are received some very good advice; the business side of this is something most of us have never experienced either.

Do I continue to take the high road of kindness and point this out (from the law standpoint) and brace for Hs monster mode as well as potentially tipping him off to hide assets or react in any other negative way? Or hand over to L and potentially let him step in it for fraudulent claims on official doc? This is why my gut tells me his L did not fill this out.

I know it’s hard to do; keep business as business and your healing path as your path.

Taking the high road, remaining kind, is an admirable and achievable goal. Pointing out H’s errors in separation/divorce documentation or flaws in his strategies or his life choices or etc... has nothing to do with you walking your path in a kind and high road manner.

H controls H. You control you. He’s going to do what he wants.

Hand stuff over to your lawyer and let your L analyze and tell you what your options are. You can make your informed decisions then, and for the most part - listen to your lawyer’s advice, you paid for it.

This puts space, a buffer, between H’s antics / possible monstering and you. Something you need; no point fighting H. That is the high road. Not fighting H. He wants this, remember? He just wants it his way, and that is not how it works.

Focus on you and your financial security and protection. That is the business of what you are currently embroiled in. Keep emotions out if this by utilizing your lawyer. Your emotions will change, however this deal will not. Make sure you are protected. I remember how bad this all felt going through it; feelings really do change. Do not base decisions upon temporary emotions.

I would consider letting your L do most of the work; your sanity and well-being is much more important than a few bucks. And as perviously stated it buffers you, somewhat removing you from the pushing of this separation forward, letting H decide when he wants to stop. You, well actually your L, is just responding to H’s demands.

Stay strong.

DnJ