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Originally Posted by unchien

Sometimes there is a repressed hostility towards women on these threads. It has happened on my thread. I wish this didn't happen, it drives women away from giving valuable feedback. Also, one of the main points of the book is how NGs often end up having repressed hostility towards women because they don't know how to meet their needs in a healthy way. So it's a little bit ironic...


From my perspective you hit the nail on the head unchien. Thank you for weighing in.

I suppose in some ways it can be the chicken or the egg question, can't it? So, if you have a WAS it is understandable to feel powerless in that situation, and powerlessness often feeds anger. So this anger becomes hostility towards your situation. To remedy it, you focus on being Alpha and taking your power back, and perhaps swing a bit too much in the other direction, and have a lack of empathy or understanding of the other side.

Flip that around, and perhaps you just always had a lack of understanding for the "other side", so you have a WAS in response. Same feelings, same outcome, but which came first? Maybe they were simultaneous, and a lack of speaking up for what you want was always there.

Anyway - that's exactly what you just said, but I had to write it out to digest it for myself.

****************
However, power is an interesting thing to examine in our sitches. And how we all feel powerless when our spouses leave, and that leads to a range of reactions.

This is going to be a gendered response - so I welcome feedback here - but hoping I don't start a heated discussion.

I think in our (western, patriarchal) society we see many more women feeling powerless in our every day lives. I'm not looking for a political discussion, but in a sweeping generalization I would say it is much more the norm for a woman to work through her own lack of power in the world.

So if a WAS situation happens, we have a range of experiences from which to draw. This isn't the first time we've been put aside with no regard to the outcome or our own desires.

If this is the first time someone's wishes are set aside with ZERO regard for their feelings - what does that feel like? For such a monumental and hurtful thing to be thrown, and this sudden realization that you can do NOTHING to stop it?

Anyone who has faced any adversity has a different skill set to draw from. I think it really does come down to personal experiences, and those of us who have had to practice working through powerlessness have a vastly different experience than those who have not yet encountered it.

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Originally Posted by Yail
I suppose in some ways it can be the chicken or the egg question, can't it? So, if you have a WAS it is understandable to feel powerless in that situation, and powerlessness often feeds anger. So this anger becomes hostility towards your situation. To remedy it, you focus on being Alpha and taking your power back, and perhaps swing a bit too much in the other direction, and have a lack of empathy or understanding of the other side.

Flip that around, and perhaps you just always had a lack of understanding for the "other side", so you have a WAS in response. Same feelings, same outcome, but which came first? Maybe they were simultaneous, and a lack of speaking up for what you want was always there.

Anyway - that's exactly what you just said, but I had to write it out to digest it for myself.

Yail ~ There is a degree of powerlessness in NGS. The (wrong) quick fix is to become more alpha and take back power. That shortcuts all the hard work that needs to be done. The problem for me is not that I gave my WAW too much power. The problem is that I placed all my self-worth in her hands, then thought I was a great H for doing so, and she should love me for that. I didn't even have my own version of the truth - if she expressed a strong feeling or emotion, well, that must be the truth then. I was completely out of touch with my own emotions. I figured if I just made her happy, WE would be happy. What an incredibly lonely feeling that must have been for her. It is an unhealthy dynamic.

I'm not suggesting I was a great H for acting in that way. For example, I would buy her flowers and hope it would make her happy, instead of just buying her flowers as an act of love. NGs think they are great guys when in fact they are complete doofuses much of the time.

Part of addressing all of this is to get back in touch with one's core values, stop acting passive aggressively, stop finding self-worth in another person's approval, and own your life. Sounds like DB, right? The side effect is one becomes more confident and assertive and learns to own their own happiness. Yes, that sounds a lot like more "alpha" behavior, which is more attractive (in general), etc. But just jumping straight to being more "alpha" doesn't address the core issues.

Unfortunately I'm too late addressing many of these issues. But it will serve me well as my life unfolds from now forward.

We all feel anger at times towards our WAS, and the powerlessness of the situation, and I think that is normal regardless of gender. When that anger drives our actions and behaviors and words -- then it is a problem.

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So well stated unchien. A lot of my understanding of NGS had been around being passive-aggressive and covert contracts. I wasn't aware of the piece about placing self-worth in someone else's hands. Thank you for probably one of the best explanations I've seen on the board.

I'm right there with you on the feelings of it being too late for some of our discovered issues, but knowing we will be better moving forward. I unearthed many, many of my own shortcomings this past year. I wish I learned these lessons sooner while still in my M. But I didn't, so instead I will take them with me and try my hardest to keep learning along the way.

************
Journaling:

It's NYE! I'm a little disappointed in that it seems a farmer I had connected with isn't able to get me the specific product I had inquired about. I don't blame her, as it was something kind of custom that she hadn't planned on making this year. But also part of me was excited for a food challenge (I LOVE cooking new things!)

I had hoped she could make me cotechino, which is an Italian sausage that is cooked on NYE with lentils to bring prosperity. In all honesty, it's probably best if I don't make it. I told her I'd need the product for "6 - 8 people" because part of me wondered if I'd throw together a dinner party. Nope - just me - and I really don't need sausage for 8 people.

In thinking about this farmer, I feel the need to connect with her in 2020. I think her size farm is something I'm very interested in learning more about, and perhaps I can study with her a bit. She doesn't have goats, but something is drawing me to her.

I'm really examining my budget and decided I need to quit drinking because it's expensive, and also slash my grocery bill because I like nice food. I'm thinking January will be a challenge to see how low I can get the bill with meal planning while still eating wholesome, real food. I hope to make bread and yogurt weekly, and baked oatmeal for breakfasts. Perhaps several soups since my family got me a crock pot for my birthday a few weeks ago.

OH and I got a Kitchenaid mixer for Christmas! I'm no longer without!

I plan on reconnecting with "The Artists Way" next weekend, which I let slide. I plan on studying my PHP skills to prepare for my March class (*insert swearing at PHP*). I hope to take the very best care of myself in January and February before my classes start up again, and I find myself busy. If I make good habits the first two months I think I can continue them throughout the year.

And I will somehow pull together a new life plan in 2020. I will keep my vision of a small home and bit of land for homesteading in my minds eye, and figure out how to get there. It won't be in 2020, but I hope I can lay the groundwork by saving and/or studying.

A year of groundwork. That sounds appropriate. Time for Yail to dig-in and take charge. My Year of Risks. Just writing this makes me so excited.

Ok. No more lazing about. Time to get ready for the day, get a biga for bread started, and hit the town. Fresh air is needed.

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Happy New Year to all. In my timezone we are now just after midnight.

A quiet and successful evening here at Casa di Yail. I made two huge and delicious loaves of bread so it smelled delicious. I don't think I've made bread in at least a year, and it felt really good. I made a gallon of milk's worth of fresh ricotta and saved the whey for a future use (TBD - suggestions welcomed!).

Last time I worked with whey I was feeding it to the pigs. I know there are a million uses for human consumption, but I'm not sure what. The homesteader in me wants to learn!

I dyed my blond section of my hair a beautiful bright purple and I love it. It was previously bright pink which had faded to bubblegum. I accidentally stained my sink in the rinsing process, so it looks like a unicorn vomited in my bathroom. Oops.

I'm wearing my gorgeous new Fenty lipstick I got for Christmas and look Fancy AF. YAY FANCY YAIL

A nice cheeseboard for dinner with good olives/nuts/cheeses/meats/grissini/dates. A bottle of Prosecco over the past 3 hours, and just popped a second that I'll drink much faster. 2019 ended with me behaving. 2020 will likely start with me a weeeee bit passed out in about an hour. Year of Risks? (JK)

I'm 3 minutes into Michelle Wolf's new Netflix special and I'm already crying laughing, so that's a good way to bring in the year!

Lots of folks on my social media are being reflective and introspective about their past decade. I feel that way too in some ways, but with a separation/divorce it's not something I really feel like posting. It's not really appropriate or wanted.

What I actually am reflecting on is where I'm at now. As in, in this past month. In a very non-heavy way. I'm newly discovering what I can do with makeup (thanks to my SIL), and consider lipstick my gateway make-up. I didn't know it could be so FUN! I see 2020 as a year I get to play around with my aesthetic in makeup, jewelry, and clothing. I can present myself in any way I choose. Every day is a new, fresh day!

Ok, 7 minutes into this comedy special and I'm literally wiping away tears. Apparently this mascara is waterproof.

2020 can be my year of saying "yes" to whatever i please, because I have nothing holding me. If I got swept up in a dumb love saga I could move in with my lover tomorrow. (note: ewww. Just...ewww.). But realistically, I have a lot of free time. I can learn SO much if I set my mind to it. I can accomplish whatever I want. I always could, but now I just have the drive to do so. I have clarity.

But with...heels...and Fenty...and a really intense killer Femme vibe.

(Yail's wine is kicking in)

(18 minutes in to Michelle's special and I'm officially snorting when I laugh. I have not laughed this hard or this long in FOREVER.)

Ok I'm losing my focus.

Ummmm 2020. It's gonna be great y'all. For all of us. In varied ways. The important takeaways are:
1) Find colors that work for you
2) Watch a ton of stand-up comedy, and apparently Netflix's selection is great
C) Eat good food. It's good for your soul.
D) Drink your water, get enough sleep, wash your sheets often so you can sleep to that awesome fresh clean smell and not be gross.
E) Buy good quality and cute undergarments so you always have a top secret reason to feel like you're on your game when you leave the house


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is Yail's not very impressive advice for 2020. In all seriousness I wish you well and hope that the new year brings you a fresh breath and feelings of newness.

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A happy new year to you also Ms Yail.

I don't think anyone has ever made staying in sound so so glamourous. Go you. And the food sounds excellent.

Your 2020 advice reminds me of the "Everybody's Free (to wear sunscreen)" speech from the Romeo and Juliet soundtrack.

"Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't, maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't, maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary. Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself, either. Your choices are half chance, so are everybody else's. Enjoy your body, use it every way you can. Don't be afraid of it, or what other people think of it, it's the greatest instrument you'll ever own.

Dance . Even if you have nowhere to do it but in your own living room.


I find YouTube a good place to find make-up tips. I suspect I'm not as out there as you so tend to go for more subdued 'natural' looks but I do like watching the more dramatic tutorials.

Uh, and totally with you on the undergarments thing. I've been a bit lazy of late, but there is nothing like a cute set under boring work clothes to remind myself that I am more than one thing. I can be sexy and corporate.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

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That's a brilliant speech, and so appropriate for all of us here! Thanks for sharing FS!

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In addition to 2020 being the year of :

"Do no harm. Take not $hit"

It will also be:

"F#(*ing right I'm relentless"

which is from The Hamilton Mix Tapes (Lin Manuel Miranda, in "Wrote my way out")

Boy, I'd better get going on my cross stitch. I'm still working on my "QUEER" piece I started last spring because I'm sloooowwww

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I spent the morning on a goat farm for the first time since my time in Italy. It was a short farm visit (community event) and I went with my SIL. I returned home after smelling quite strongly of goat.

It was great. My love of these creatures hasn't diminished despite the fact I haven't had the opportunity to work with them since June. This farm was new to me, and they have a bunch of volunteer opportunities, so I think I may start seeing if I can volunteer there.

I also reached out about a potential part time job that would be in addition to my full time work. I'm not sure if it will be a good match or not, but I'll be having the conversation.

I was having a conversation with SIL this morning about how/when I might be able to buy a house. My situation is that I am not currently able to save money in my apartment. It's at my budget. But if I were to put in some hustle and get another job I could do it. It just depends where I want to focus my energy. Working on my Masters degree and building my social circle? Or working really hard at two jobs PLUS grad school with less time for social growth? It will likely end up being a choice, and something I need to be very intentional about.

Right now I'm leaning towards the hustle, but I'm still working through it. Today my time on the farm really helped assure me that's the life i want, and if that's what I want I need to WORK for it.

So, we will see.

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Not much to update over here at Casa di Yail. Still waiting on official D word, and still not sure if it will be tomorrow or May.

Since the New Year I'm finding myself to be much calmer and steady. For a while I was flying super high with an abundance of energy and a mindset of "Go! Go! Go!". It was great, and it was needed to get me through a really intense crunch-time. Now I still have a great deal of energy but I'm also feeling a bit more normal and grounded with a focus on making some solid plans and slow-steady work to achieve these goals. I'm feeling productive in my life.

I'm on time or ahead on my projects at work, which is a place I've never really been able to be. I guess I just feel like I've really got my head "in the game" these days, and the months and months of being distracted with a memory of a goldfish seem to have passed. There was such a long time when I couldn't remember anything due to my distraction over my sitch.

I think it will be a good transition. It has put me in a good space mentally. I'm taking better care of myself with making home cooked meals every day, and I cut way, way back on drinking. It was a budget-based decision but my body also thanks me for being sober most nights. I'm trying to be consistent with my sleep and waking up earlier to be productive. Overall I'm feeling calm and present. I'm also crafting a lot which for me is a major source of therapy. I feel my best and grounded when I'm knitting or doing cross stitch or sewing. It's also the time I consciously or subconsciously work out my emotions towards XW because my mind can wander while I work. I'm feeling less anger again.

I find myself listening to my friends/colleagues discuss their own relationships in a different way. I see the subtly toxic behaviors, or avoidance of issues, or ambivalence towards a partner. I never caught on to these clues before I had my own experience. And I'm not trying to think that I know better than they do, but I feel sometimes that my experience would lead me down such a different path if I were in their shoes. I don't step in to give advice unless asked. But I find myself worrying about a few of these folks and what the future of their R is. In these moments I see just how different I am now than I was 2 years ago while in a R, and 1 year when I was dealing with the post BD effects.

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I love reading your updates these days. Even this update, which is more subdued and talks to cutting back on social activities in favour of spending time on personal projects. They are so full of optimism. Not in an overcompensating kind of way, but an accepting things as they are and looking at the positive.

I am fairly crafty - but not a finisher. My home is full of half finished paintings. I get all excited, paint for days, and then stop. Cycle repeats every 3 months or so. I have an oil painting of cherry blossoms which is now only missing the sky - and has been since about July last year.

I cut back a lot on the socialising (read drinking) in Dec and I mean to keep it up now that I am back at work. The problem has always been the heavy drinking culture in my industry (I was able to side step it for years due to being happily married and having young kids) but once he moved out (and started having the kids overnight) the temptation to stay out "sure, but just one more drink" became a lot harder to say no to. Why go home when there is no-one to go home too. But it wasn't good for my pocket or my well being.


W40 (me), H40
M14, Together 16
D12, D9

BD Oct 17
Moved out Mar 18

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