Thank-you in advance to anyone who reads this post I have ordered the book and am waiting eagerly. We have been together for 5 years, married for 3.5, with a 3.5 year old. We met while travelling, as he is from another country we did not spend much time together the first year. So, we went into a completely stressful situation - pregnancy, him moving from Europe, me starting a business and then going back work as well full time. Then we bought and rennovated a house. We did alllll the stressful things in the 3.5 years. Everything now is just settling out - or so I thought.
My H asked for divorce (separation?) Nov 10. I did not react well. I was already under a lot of stress (my business needs to be sold as its sucking the life out of me). We went through lots of rollercoasters - he was half living elsewhere. Since the breakup, we are communicating more deeply than we ever have, and even were able to sit through each others anger - something we never really did before. We started having sex about a week after we broke up - the sex just got better and better. We laugh more, we connect better than ever. He does everything he can to help with the house and our family responsibilities, including my business. And he still insists that we are over. He wants to live in our house - in the basement - and help finsih the renos. We just signed the mortgage in August. We are splitting out our expenses so that is more separated. And we talk about getting a dog together - he wants to be best friends and economic partners. We still love each other and we are still attracted to each other.
And he still insists that we are over.
I was not present a lot for those 3.5 years... I was too stressed. I recognize that. I know I am not to blame 100%, but I do know that I was barely surviving. I am on leave now to recover from all this.
I am just not sure what to do next. Let him stay here even though he insists we are over and he says he will eventually start dating someone new? See how this goes? Tell him if he wants to separated, he should really get his own house?
I am at a loss.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D33,S32
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Trust his actions more than his words. Focus on what you can control: YOU and your behavior. He has his story to tell you. You listen to understand the story. Don't argue with it.
H:"I am leaving you forever" W:"I understand". or "OK" or "I am sorry you feel that way"
I see sitting together though each others anger is good. As long as you don't feed each other. Let him express his anger unless you believe it will become unsafe, then separate to calm down.
Let us know how we can help.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Hi. I am new too so I do not have advice. Just reaching out to provide support, to let you know you are not alone and that you have to come to a place that will help you through this journey. My H's BD was also in November and he stays in the basement. We have split out our finances too so they are more separated.
It seems like a good sign to me that you all are communicating more, having better intimacy and sharing household responsibilities. Hang in there.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
Thanks so much HesAble. We've had a few ups and downs and haven't been intimate since a few days before Christmas. We are in a really nice place though of friendly caring energy, lots of flexibility and working on the house together.
How are things going for you? Does it feel good to split the finances? I make more money than he does... so we are trying to split it out in a ratio that makes sense for our incomes and his physical labour around the house.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
Hi ReadytoChange - thank you for this advice. I dont think I was able to get to a place to just listen, even though I heard his pain a number of times - I will still so hurt that I often still reacted and didn't give him space to talk through it all. While we both have sat through our anger a number of times and mostly have allowed each other to talk... I still feel I could have done a lot better to have him feel truly heard.
My question now is, do I bring it up so that I can hear him - or do I let him come back to me?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
I would allow him to come to you when he is ready to talk.
If you haven't done so already, I would have a chat w/a lawyer to see what you are options are, if it comes down to a legal separation/divorce. Whatever you learn, do not discuss it w/him.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hello everyone - I have another thread but this is a more direct question regarding keepign distnace.
Husband's BD on Nov 10. His complaints were that I was not there for him emotionally, and not really physically as well - we were having sex - about 2-3 month - I had finsihed breast feeding only a year ago. Since the break up, we have had better than ever sex.
Not being there for him emotionally and often behaving very distant as I was too stressed out from having a full time job and a start up business - all my energy went to my son first. I realize how wrong that was now - my H shoudl have been first. I know I am not totally to blame. There was lots he didn't do, could have done better, should not have done. But that's not my focus.
I understand I should focus on myself and I am. I've taken time off to get healthy.
I feel that I also need to be completely open to him and what he needs - I need to show him that I can hear him and sit through his anger without reacting, but I don't want to instigate a situation... should I say anything at all? Tell him that I understand that I haven't heard him well?
We still live together and get along really well... he continually insists its over.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
So, just proceed as is until he is ready to come to me and talk...
I have an appointment with a lawyer on Jan 22. I am in Canada so we don't have legal separation. Just no fault divorce. Mediation is the cheapest option.
I am worried about the house in some ways... we only signed the mortgage in August. There is no value in it yet. So, forcing me to sell the house would just hurt all of us.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
I have merged your two threads together. The general policy here is to stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. You can change your thread title at any time within your thread.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
HI - just wondeirng if anyone has had experience with being the one who had too many other things going on in their life outside of spouse. GAL doesnt make a lot of sense to me as I have such a full life outside of my family. What I need to do is be with my husband or available to him... does that make sense to anyone?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
I have merged your two threads together. The general policy here is to stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. You can change your thread title at any time within your thread.
I am not sure why this wasn’t clear, I did the same thing
Thank-you in advance to anyone who reads this post I have ordered the book and am waiting eagerly. We have been together for 5 years, married for 3.5, with a 3.5 year old. We met while travelling, as he is from another country we did not spend much time together the first year. So, we went into a completely stressful situation - pregnancy, him moving from Europe, me starting a business and then going back work as well full time. Then we bought and rennovated a house. We did alllll the stressful things in the 3.5 years. Everything now is just settling out - or so I thought.
My H asked for divorce (separation?) Nov 10. I did not react well. I was already under a lot of stress (my business needs to be sold as its sucking the life out of me). We went through lots of rollercoasters - he was half living elsewhere. Since the breakup, we are communicating more deeply than we ever have, and even were able to sit through each others anger - something we never really did before. We started having sex about a week after we broke up - the sex just got better and better. We laugh more, we connect better than ever. He does everything he can to help with the house and our family responsibilities, including my business. And he still insists that we are over. He wants to live in our house - in the basement - and help finsih the renos. We just signed the mortgage in August. We are splitting out our expenses so that is more separated. And we talk about getting a dog together - he wants to be best friends and economic partners. We still love each other and we are still attracted to each other.
And he still insists that we are over.
I was not present a lot for those 3.5 years... I was too stressed. I recognize that. I know I am not to blame 100%, but I do know that I was barely surviving. I am on leave now to recover from all this.
I am just not sure what to do next. Let him stay here even though he insists we are over and he says he will eventually start dating someone new? See how this goes? Tell him if he wants to separated, he should really get his own house?
I am at a loss.
Hi West. Welcome and sorry you find yourself here. Many of us have been through this. To the question in your thread title, my answer is a thread I wrote a while back:
Yep, this is typical WAS script stuff. Mine was insistent on this....even after she would initiate a night (and I am not too far off from saying the entire night) of passion.
Keep your chin up, focus on you. Remember you cannot control him, but you have full control over you, your reactions and your actions. GAL....like crazy. Be a busy busy woman. 180 on your bad behaviors. Use this as an opportunity to become the best version of yourself that you can. And detach. This means to become emotionally stable no matter what he says or does. Tough? Yes. Doable, also yes!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks so much for the read and reply. You are so right about becoming emotionally stable no matter what he says or does. That is certainley my goal right now. And a 180 on my bad behaviours...
Did you reconcile with your W?
I wondered about GAL - because I already had such a full life without him... that was part of the reason we grew so distant and disconnected. He's very much a quieter person and I am very much an ideas person... growing community, meeting people, developing ideas. I don't want to recreate the situation by continuing to grow my life without him.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
Thanks so much for the read and reply. You are so right about becoming emotionally stable no matter what he says or does. That is certainley my goal right now. And a 180 on my bad behaviours...
Did you reconcile with your W?
I wondered about GAL - because I already had such a full life without him... that was part of the reason we grew so distant and disconnected. He's very much a quieter person and I am very much an ideas person... growing community, meeting people, developing ideas. I don't want to recreate the situation by continuing to grow my life without him.
Yes. But I like to caution newcomers, Ring isn't what you think it is. If you think Ring is going back to the way things were then you are doomed to be disappointed. You have to look at it as MR 2.0 with who your S is NOW.
It is also a heck of a lot of hard work. And you will doubt if it was the right decision. I still have moments of doubt, if I wouldn't have been better off using it as an opportunity to move on.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
That is very interesting... I do have moments of those doubts even now. But the thing is that he is a really good man - and we do work well together when I am happy. ANd we have passion.
Funny that you say that... I do not want to go back to the way things were... we didn't start the same way most people did. We met in central America, I live in Canada and he lived in Europe. We long distance dated for 10 months, then I got pregnant on our last visit - found out the day I got back to Canada. That forced our hand - we had been togehter 3 times in 10 months... and we were launched into a stressfull situation immediately. He didn't want to leave Europe. But we tried hard to make it work... so stressful... a baby, a new business, we both eventually worked full time (as well as business), bought and renovated a house. Just now everything has settled out but the distance had already developed between us and the poor communication patterns.
Since we broke up, we have been better at communicating, more aware, more present and when we are intimate, more passionate. A friend recently asked me if I reminisce about how it used to be and if that's what I am sad about... I said no. What I want is the relationship we have now. THis is the relationship I have always wanted... except we aren't sleeping in the same bed and I have to hold back from touching him or initiating sex.
I think I would have moments of doubt with anyone (that I was well enough matched to).
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
HI - just wondering if anyone has had experience with being the one who had too many other things going on in their life outside of spouse. GAL doesn't make a lot of sense to me as I have such a full life outside of my family. What I need to do is be with my husband or available to him... does that make sense to anyone?
Originally Posted by WestM
I wondered about GAL - because I already had such a full life without him... that was part of the reason we grew so distant and disconnected. He's very much a quieter person and I am very much an ideas person... growing community, meeting people, developing ideas. I don't want to recreate the situation by continuing to grow my life without him.
I was full GAL at bomb drop.So was W.
Absolutely be available to him, but do not do this in a needy way. Do not do it in a pursuing way.
Learn as much as you can about attractions and seduction. There is a big difference. During this stage of the process, you really want to be seductive. Seduction is very counter-intuitive if you are not already skilled in this area.
Hi job.... I just went through a tense conversation with H. I am completely at a loss as to what to do about our finances... we are living together and getting along really well... and he just brought up separating our finances... we had intitially agreed on sharing all costs and renovations, etc. I make twice as much money as he does but he also is able to do most of the labour on the renovations. When he was very admanant about us being separate people eventually, and talking about dating others eventually, I said then we shoudln't be so financially emeshed. We need to seperate out our bills and he can then contribute an protion of the mortgage that makes sense for his income compared to mine. That way we are paying our own bills and make our own financial decisions. This will also make it easier when/if he moves out. This was a week ago. I thought we were on the same page. Tonight it seems we are not.
He;s upset now because I wanted to follow his lead on separating our finances and he wants to go back to the finances as if we are married. And then he says no, it's fine we will separate it.
At this point I am not sure if him living here is a good idea or not! Of course I want us to be together and to work well together... maybe at some point in the future we could share the hsoue and be effective coparents/economic partners. But I am doubtful.
Any help?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
First.... Doesn't matter who makes more, the agreement should be 50/50 on everything house related. Each pay for their own car. Of course he's upset as he is trying to have his cake (being single) and eat it too (enjoy the additional income you provide). One of my favorite DBing tactics is to call the WAS' bluff, which is what you did. "You want to be separate, then we separate finances." You gave him a huge dose of reality.
In my sitch my W had a plan that she hadn't thought all the way through. "I want to get a job, get an apartment, and get a divorce." On day 3 after I heard this plan I remembered DBing. She had an EA in 2005 which is where I found MWD. I started to embrace her plan though I was clear my preference was staying together and working on things. She would ask questions about the costs of things (I do all the bills). I told her I'd buy her anything she needed. Resume writing books. Interviewing technique books. (She hadn't worked since 2004.) Slowly she started to back away from her "plan". She worked on her resume one night and most the next day, never finished it. That's how I knew she wasn't serious about her plan.
Reality is the only thing that can shake them free of their delusions. But here's the thing.. You cannot do things purposely to try to shake them free. You have to really move on and do the things to move on. Sometimes they wake up in time, some times not. If you try to manipulate him he will see through it.
So this long diatribe is to say that you need to move on this finance splitting. He will continue to cake eat if you let him. I'd highly consider having a lawyer draw up the agreement so he knows you're serious about it.
As far as not wanting him to live there, you can ask him to leave but you can't make him at least in most cases. Consult a lawyer on that as well.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Thanks so much HesAble. We've had a few ups and downs and haven't been intimate since a few days before Christmas. We are in a really nice place though of friendly caring energy, lots of flexibility and working on the house together.
How are things going for you? Does it feel good to split the finances? I make more money than he does... so we are trying to split it out in a ratio that makes sense for our incomes and his physical labour around the house.
I also make considerably more than my H so we split ours up based on that. Because he spends a LOT and saves essentially nothing, I am feeling better now that our finances are split. I am able to save more and I don't have to stress about whether he is overspending.
H and Me - Both 45; S13 and D9 BD - 11/2019 Married 14 years; Together 20 years
Do you also split the mortgage/rent and all household bills 50/50? Do you have kids? I really don't think my H undestands the financial impacts of what he is doing. Conisdering there were no bad thigns in our marriage, just poor communication patterns and I had a high level of stress for a while... I also asked, periodically to do marriage counselling, couples retreats and other ways to connect together, most of which he declined.
And we still get along are still attracted to each other. He wasn't getting his emotional needs met - I get that. We also had a baby and a business and bought and renovated a house in 3 years. Everything is just settling out now... and he wants to pull the plug.
I think he's having an early MLC. He's 34. And immigrated here from Europe 4 years ago.
How is your H handling the financial split?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
Thanks so much Steve85... did you W move out at all after that?
I stayed very clear about my financial boundaries last night and he went on to dividing the house and debt - we only got the mortgage in August 2019, with financial help from my dad, so there is zero equity and we have about 40K in debt. The only logical solution is for him to sign the house over to me and I look after the debt. If we sold now, we'd probably have to pay the bank due to our mortgage insurance etc. He agreed but was obviously unhappy.
This morning he was back on our three month trial of him living in the basement suite, but still dividing our expenses.
For someone who wants to eventually get divorced, he sure wants to hang on as much as possible. And besides when we talk about separating/divorce, we truly do get a long. We smile, have fun, joke and enjoy each other.
But you are right... he needs to get on with his "separate life". It is not what I want - and when I say that - he gets agitated. But I say it calmly and lovingly, this isn't what I want, but I support your desire to make this happen.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
So, he moved out this morming. We argued a bit about our finances and our 3 month trial living together and I ultimatley said, its time for him to move out, I can't support him anymore. He wanted to stay to be best friends and coparents and I wanted to eventually get back together. So, I pulled the plug. I will keep the house.
I think that was the right thing to do. I am looking for reassurance...
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
So, he moved out this morming. We argued a bit about our finances and our 3 month trial living together and I ultimatley said, its time for him to move out, I can't support him anymore. He wanted to stay to be best friends and coparents and I wanted to eventually get back together. So, I pulled the plug. I will keep the house.
I think that was the right thing to do. I am looking for reassurance...
If you are really done, then it was. If you still want to get back together, then probably not.
Did you really want him to move out, or did you just tell him that hoping he'd change his mind? Manipulation attempts almost always backfire.
Understand that 3 months is a small amount of time in these sitches. Patrice Lack of patience is usually what ends up hurting you in DBing. We typically encourage posters to come here for feedback before making a decision on these kinds of things.
Ànother thing that happens is that LBSs that are IHS think physical separation would be easier. Those that are in physical separation think it would be easier to show their changes if they still lived together. It is a conundrum.
West, the thing is that most LBS are in pain, so they think they can do things that will eliminate the pain. It hardly ever a good thing to react trying to avoid pain. You will have regrets.
I say all this not to make you feel bad, but to warn you that you'll likely regret this decision. But it is done, so just start DBing hard. Come here for feedback before making big decisions. GAL, keep improving, and keep working to detach.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Now I've let him go. I don't think I can just be super happy around him right now. Is it appropriate to take space? I am still waitign for the book. I just need space to collect myself for a while.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
Now I've let him go. I don't think I can just be super happy around him right now. Is it appropriate to take space? I am still waitign for the book. I just need space to collect myself for a while.
I’ve been NC for 5 months now and it’s helped a lot. He’s with OW and it’s highly unlikely he’s coming back anytime soon if ever. My focus now is on me and my kids. I couldn’t do this while he dates so I filed for D.
Physical space helps. It is still very hard but not seeing him will help you start to move forward without him. I don’t blame you for asking him to move out although I’m not sure how many women would be okay with dating a guy who still lives with his wife. I suppose they are out there though. Hopefully he finds out the grass isn’t exactly greener on the other side. Regardless...focus on you and GAL. It will help. (((HUGS)))
He's still helping - still at the house right now while I spend time away. He is going to find a way to work his schedule so I can do a 10 day silent mediation program next week. He's still doing firewood. Wants to maybe move back in in 6 months when we've had a chance to heal. Is signing over the house to me and walkng away with only the car. And says he will always have space for us and will always help when he can. I make more money than he does but he is also willing to pay extra child support.
I feel overwhlemed with all the changes... I am still left with 5 acres of land and an unfinsihed basement suite that needs to be finished so I can rent it out... all the bills and having my son the majority of the time, still trying to sell my business and am on medical leave as I can't fathom going back to work at this point - we live on a small island meaning that I commute to work on a 30 min trip ferry each day - I am too overwhelemed to be back at work just yet.
ALthough I still feel conflicted about having him move out - we were both angry and hurt in that moment... we have hurt between us that hasn't healed... and we were trying to live together in the same space while we worked on the basement suite... I still feel very conflicted.
I hope that by him living elsewhere he can do his "single" life and I can heal my own life and figure out how to do this mostly without him. Maybe that will actually enable us to find true healing.
With a heavy heart, but hopeful for the changes to come all around...
WestM
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
Physical space helps. It is still very hard but not seeing him will help you start to move forward without him. I don’t blame you for asking him to move out although I’m not sure how many women would be okay with dating a guy who still lives with his wife. I suppose they are out there though. Hopefully he finds out the grass isn’t exactly greener on the other side. Regardless...focus on you and GAL. It will help. (((HUGS)))
Hi there - I actuallly am starting to feel way better in many ways. There was so much confusion for me in his actions... he says the reason we don't live together now is because we reacted to each other... I am firm that the reason we don't live together is because he was very clear he does not want to be married or to have any of those commitments. Our tension revolved around his desire to be free to date and trying to separate our bills.
Now that he is out, although I feel very sad in many ways, I also feel like I am finally able to process my feelings and move on with GAL. I do miss him. But I do NOT miss the tension - the tension between me wanting to work on the marriage and he being extremely firm that we are over... and us behaving as if we were married.
I do not think he would have started dating anyone any time soon - but it was my one ask - my one boundary if we were going to continue to live togehter, was to have 3 months of no dating. He did not want boundaries.
I am now reading the Divorce Remedy. It makes a ton of sense... especially the stages of connecting. We seem to be extremely text book, just like most people. There was no violence or cheating... or anything. Just poor communication patterns.
I finally understand my boundaries and should have done this before Christmas.
I can only control (of course) what I am able to do, which is take care of me and my son. Fortunately, I have the means to do that.
As far as contact goes, I don't think I am ready to spend time with him. I still need to go through my anger and healing process for a while. Does anyone else have experience with this? Taking time away for themselves to heal and GAL, limiting contact and things working out in the long run?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
We live on a small island - just off the main city. It's a 20 min ferry ride or so with gettting on/off. My H wants me to pick up and drop off from the ferry, both him and our son so that he can save $. I don't really feel like doing this.
Is it fair to make him to drive over since it was his choice to move off island?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
That’s a tough one West. If it were me, I would consider what the needs of my son are apart from H in this scenario. I’m not sure it is a question of fairness. If your H is spending money on the ferry, is that going to impact you and/or your son in a negative way? My XH and I have made it a priority to put our kids first and coparent in a way that impacts them as little as possible. For instance...my D12 wants to act in a play which involves going to a rehearsal every Thursday really close to my home but far from his. She already does quite a few activities (all of them close to my house and far from his) and he is tired of all the driving so didn’t want her to do it this time. I totally get it. But I really wanted my daughter to have the opportunity so every other Thursday, when she is at his house, I offered to pick her up from rehearsal and drive her to his place. Not my preference but I’m okay with it. Anyway...that’s just my two cents. I obviously don’t know the ins and outs of your situation. My advice would be to try to make your decisions based on logic and reason and not on emotion. When your hurt eventually fades, you will be glad you did. (((HUGS)))
Thanks DejaVu - are you glad you are your husband divorced? I honestly don't know how to feel about all this. I do know that I don't want to be with someone who won't tell me how he feels and what he really wants - especially when it really matters the most.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
So, after all that and one virus later... my H is living back in the house... but downstairs which is fine. We’ve had lots of ups and downs. I need to try different things... stop focusing on the relationship and thinking somehow I’ll fix it. The advice is, not to bring up issues... not react? Let him bring it up?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
So, after all that and one virus later... my H is living back in the house... but downstairs which is fine. We’ve had lots of ups and downs. I need to try different things... stop focusing on the relationship and thinking somehow I’ll fix it. The advice is, not to bring up issues... not react? Let him bring it up?
How is he treating you? I think the friendly roommate analogy applies to this scenario....continue to work on yourself and let him talk when he’s ready. At the same time don’t be a doormat if he’s showing you disrespect.
It's alternating wildly really. What I am confused about is how to address items such as division of labour in the house and who looks after our son and how we ask each other for support.
He just agreed of his own freewill to accept a 20K loan from my dad to pay off our business credit cards and our personal credit cards. I gave him space to do so and said it was up to him... he took his time and answered my dad via email that we would accept. Then two days later he came home with a TV that he purchased on credit - I was shocked and said why didn't you talk to me about this - which of course set him off into a tyraid of the usual blame, most of which is simply not true. He blames me from not standing up for himself and always supporting my decisions throughout our marriage. He has not been able to be true to himself most of his life and tended towards being a people pleaser and avoiding conflict by not expressing himself. Whereas I am not like that for the most part, I enjoy helping people but I likely will tell you if I am not happy or don't want to do something. I can be fiery for sure, but I am also always willing to talk through things.
The interesting thing is he vacillates so wildly. One day (or even half a day) he wants to be here, help, be supportive, work together, pay of our debt together, then literally the next hour or day he's supremely angry about his needs being violated (any sort of ask is a violation of his needs/boundaries - Ive checked this out with my counsellor who has met him a few times - she likens it to someone who is just learnign to have boundaries for the first time who goes over board and assures me that my asks are just that - asks, not violations of his boundaries). He even said one morning he would be willing to read a book on relationships and work through it together... which also is hard for me because he's also stated he never ever wants to get back together. Then another day he will be intently connected to me during an argument to the point where we almost have sex, but settle for a cuddle in bed. Then two days later he completely blows up because I "asked" for him to be there after work when we first went through the business shutting down and working from home (I have another job that allows me to work from home) and losing day care all in the same day. He told me that even asking him was a violation of his needs/boundaries - and my exact words were: "hey, since things are so intense, would you consider coming home after work this evening?", that was after two days of supportive talks and connecting where we almost had sex.
I feel that we have to address how we are going to continue contributing to this household scenario in a productive way. But I don't want to go into "relationship talk". I just want clarity on what we are doing, but maybe even that is too much?
Is this normal? I am having a lot of trouble trying to stay positive.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
It’s too late now that he already got a loan from your dad, but I think given the circumstances there needs to be a boundary regarding money. It sounds like he is not responsible with money and you have to be careful to not get sucked into his bad decisions regarding finances. Anyway you could protect yourself on that front?
Don’t get on his rollercoaster. Observe his actions and do not believe his words.
What exactly do you need him to contribute? Are we talking about chores? It will be hard for you for sure, but part of dropping expectations is expecting him to behave like a normal husband who will chip in without throwing a tantrum. He sounds too emotional right now for you to discuss anything with him.
I just read your thread from beginning to end. I'm sorry you're going through this.
If by "address" you mean to get fiery, argue, complain, etc. then I'd say it's probably best not to if your aim is to reconcile. If by "address" you mean to set boundaries to ensure your own healthy and sanity, I'd say definitely! There's a thread on boundaries here. Most read it only after they good their first attempts. Think about banks and creditors. They don't get angry. They take steps to protect themselves.
Consider splitting your finances--then you don't have to worry about overspending.
I understand about letting your spouse vent and be the safe place however there is a major issue that has been sticking between us for years.
I started a business while on maternity leave just over 3 years ago. I thought I would not be able to go back to my job. My husband didn’t think it was a good idea and said so in a couple of passing conversations. I decided to do it anyway, as I really thought I would not be able to go back to my old job. He eventually supported it and even worked with at first. He wasn’t super happy about it, but always told me he made his peace with it and did everything he could to support me with it. The hard part was that I did get to go back to my original job - so I had a business and a full time job and a young child. I’d always tell everyone how much of an amazing and supportive husband I had to be able to do all this.
About a year and a half in I realized it was way too much. I apologized profusely to my husband and said it was ok, he made his peace. I tried desperately hard to get the business to a profitable place so we could sell it worth out incurring a huge debt. Eventually it grew and was a very welcome part of our community. But still had a ton of stress with it, as I was over capacity leaving little time for me to be present with my husband.
My husband was always very angry about the business, he just chose told tell me what I wanted to hear because he wanted to avoid an argument. I was devastated that he hadn’t been honest with me as I was totally and completely burnt out by the time he broke up with me - making my ability to handle anything emotional at the time impossible, meaning I way overreacted to the break up making it worse. I was so incredibly burnt out before he broke it off. I am still recovering.
In the weeks after we broke up, I showed him my remorse, apologized completely and totally for the state of our marriage and what the business did to us (although it was a lot more than that – we got married when I was 8 months pregnant, he moved to Canada to be with me from the Netherlands, I started a business, worked full time to support us as he was not yet able to work until 2 years ago, we bought a house and renovated it all in the space of 4 years and we have a 4 year old).
Fast forward to now. The business is completely shut down because of the virus. It forced our hand and now it is shut permanently. That is a good thing. My husband is still so very angry about the business. He says he is not responsible for it and he should have said no and made it clear to me at the beginning. And I said yes, that would have been good. A few hours of me being angry versus 4 years. Instead of telling me he supported it.
What my ask is now – how do I get this to stop? The anger continues, and continues and continues. He directs at me every time we have a talk about where we are at with finances. Yes, we have about 30k in debt now because of the closure. And I am paying far more towards that than he is.
Is it reasonable for me to ask him to stop directing so much anger towards me? I am tired of it and I can’t apologize any more for my part in it. He says I am choosing to take offence to his anger and I am choosing to take it personally and I should just let him rage at me. Which I have done – but enough is enough. It is not productive. He is also responsible for where we are at. The business was built to help our family, not an individual pursuit of my own interest.
The law in BC does say we are 50/50 responsible for debt incurred during the marriage (there are some exceptions to the rules here). He disagrees with this, but that is the law. Credit card/finance companies can’t legally go after the other spouse who didn’t sign for it, but that’s different than what happens in a divorce.
Do I have to continue listening to the anger in order to be a safe place?
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
No. You've validated and apologized. He has to work through his anger on his own without lashing out at you. Plus like you said, it's not 100% your fault (not even close IMO). You tried to find a way to support the family when he couldn't. The business is shut down because of the pandemic, which is completely out of your control!!!
This is another boundary you need to create for yourself - exit the conversation when he's raging at you. "I understand how you feel, but if we cannot have a civilized conversation about finances, I will exit the conversation." or "I know how you feel, but I will not be talked to this way." Other vets may have better suggestions on how to respond.
I'll assume no OM/OW and you want to repair this relationship.
Originally Posted by West
Is it reasonable for me to ask him to stop directing so much anger towards me?
It is a great idea to set boundaries to protect yourself if he "rages" (the dictionary says that term implies a threat of physical force), becomes verbally abusive, calls you names, etc.
If he's simply upset, e.g., "This is so darn unfair! I didn't start this business. Now I'm saddled with $30,000 in debt!" Then, well, do you want to repair the relationship? Listening to and validating his feelings is probably a good step in that direction. "Wow--you sound really upset. I get it must feel unfair to be saddled with $30,000 in debt for a business you didn't start." It's okay to set a time limit on it, or even on occasion "I'm interested to hear more, but I'm tired, could we finish this later?"
Originally Posted by West
I am tired of it and I can’t apologize any more for my part in it.
Good, stop apologizing. 1-2 sincere apologies are plenty. Validation doesn't even require agreement.
Originally Posted by West
The law in BC does say we are 50/50 responsible for debt incurred during the marriage (there are some exceptions to the rules here). He disagrees with this, but that is the law.
When validating, don't "defend" your perspective.
(Of course, if he chooses to divorce, protect yourself to the full extent of the law.)
It's late. I should have written, "Wow--you sound really upset." or "Wow--you sound really upset. I get you think it's unfair to be saddled with $30,000 in debt for a business you didn't start."
Yes you are correct - no affairs. Thank-you for weighing in. This is very helpful. I have to think about this in terms of reconciling - yes, have strong boundaries, but also validate validate validate. I would like to tattoo "validation doesn't mean agreement" on my forearm or somewhere I will see it every time I open my mouth HA!
Yes, the definition of rage does not apply here - that was an exaggeration, according to the definition - he does become aggressive in his speech and manner, but he does not threaten my well being.
Thank-you. It is SO helpful to have this reflected back to me. Thank-you.
I ordered one of Michele's older books on how to talk to your husband so he will listen and have read the Divorce busting latest book a number of times now! It's so interesting how I can easily fall back into certain behaviour patterns.
Me 41 H 34 Son 3.5 Married almost 4 years West Coast of Canada
1-2 sincere apologies are plenty. Validation doesn't even require agreement.