So about a week has gone by since I sent H the pension analysis. Now, as a reminder, he is the one that wanted something specific in the MSA about what happens to alimony payments when he retires.
I messaged him today to ask if he has had a chance to review it, and to remind him that he still needs to complete a financial affidavit (which I sent him many months ago).
He responded that he did see it, but "I would need to see how your lawyer is using it in the context of a settlement." He also had a few comments disputing something in it, but ended the message:
"Don’t be so fast to push this. I still want to talk to you".
Well, as expected, stall tactics.
I just responded that I wasn't pushing fast, and that he was the one who asked for this to be done and wanted to include something in the MSA about alimony when he retires. That this was done specifically at his request, and I wanted to give him every opportunity to weigh in on it prior to the attorney drafting something. I also said that as he knows, I have always said I'm available to talk at any time.
I will wait 2 more days before I work out a proposal with my attorney without his input.
Well, I wonder what he wants to talk to me about? If he does, why not talk to me now?
No need for answers to my questions. It's all just stall tactics to try to keep me on the hook.
Stall tactics that won't work!
But, it has caused me to consider what I would do if he came to me tomorrow and specifically asked me to not file right now.
Not my fantasy, mind you. Just something that came to mind.
Something to mull over to help move through this process, perhaps.
As you know, I have a lot of experience with the reluctant resolver. I can tell you that you are closer to a resolution than I am 3 years in. I don't think you want this to be dragging out years from now. His desire to delay is about him, and him alone.
I think you know he wants to find a way to get you to hold off without actually committing to anything. Returners quite often point to the OW as making demands for the divorce that they were facially trying to comply with. I suspect there is a lot of that in my case. He feels safe that I won't file so he tries to look like he is being aggressive.
I think your idea to go forward without him is a good one. I would have done so long ago if there weren't compelling financial and visitation issues involved in my situation. While anything can happen, I expect to have to be the one to file and push it through when my S graduates.
Life keeps chugging along. I’ve been doing lots of re-organizing. Taking a hard look at all the junk we’ve hauled around from house to house that’s in our garage. Will I ever use a belt sander again? Or a circular saw? No. So, they will be sold. Purging, cleaning, re-organizing. Feels good.
Boxed up more of H’s stuff too. He hasn’t been at the house since several weeks before Christmas. Maybe not even since early November. I think he came once while I was at work, but I couldn’t be sure. He will be in for a big shock when he realizes how many “personal items” he has. Boxes, and boxes, and boxes.
Anyway…..On Wednesday, H messaged me saying when he changed phone services he lost his contacts, and asked me for the number of our therapist we saw before he moved out. Adding that he won’t necessarily see her, but maybe she has a referral. Now, you all know darn well he could have looked up that number himself. I guess he just wanted me to know he was going to seek out counseling. Or make me think he was. In any event, I gave him the information and did not add anything else.
He e-mailed me today and said “maybe we could meet near where you work, Friday after work? (same place as last time) again? To chat about this pension thing and anything else?
I haven’t responded yet. Last week he wanted me to discuss the pension with my attorney and make an offer. But also added that he didn’t want me to move so fast, that he still wanted to talk to me. He still doesn’t know what he wants. Each e-mail contradicts the next. We’ll see what unfolds on Friday. I will do my very best to let him drive the conversation. I will be clear, however, that the agreement is still in the cards, and he should have a draft soon.
I’m making a couple of loaves of bread today. It reminded me of my goals I wrote here 1 year ago. Learning how to make artisan bread (surprisingly easy!), and cleaning out a closet a month. Well, I did neither regularly, but I just now realized that this week I’ve done both of those things that I put down on paper a year ago. It struck me as a bit funny. Weird.
Feels good to be busy with just regular life activities. Just finished a nice steak lunch (grilled at home, rare), with roasted potatoes (using my new air fryer, which I love), and grilled zucchini with D20. Now off the run errands.
Looks like he definitely wanted you to know he's seeing a therapist. It's interesting the various methods he uses to deliver messages to you in addition to all the talking he seems to do.
I wouldn't necessarily assume the pension talk represents a contradiction, but rather just a safe topic to make an excuse to meet up.
I admire your baking goal. I want on a big cooking kick a year or more ago for my son's benefit, but with my diet I've gotten lazy about making him good meals for a growing athletic boy and am trying to get back to that.
I've been doing lots of praying, soul searching, praying, rationalizing, praying, talking with trusted friends, praying....all in preparation for my meeting with H Friday after work. Had a chat with my attorney today, too. I am putting too much energy into thinking about it, I know. But, I'm human after all, and sometimes I just can't help it!
I am going to let H initiate any R talk.
But, there is no R right now.
Do I want one?
Even if he moved out on his own today, would that change anything?
How does one begin to ever recover any trust after all that's occurred.
Is it possible?
So many questions.
I need to wait for the answers to come.
He said in an e-mail about the pension that I shouldn't push so fast. That he still wanted to talk to me.
The meeting is suppose to be about his pension.
He called the meeting, but I'll bet he will be looking to me to do the talking.
He will be in for a big surprise.
The old me would have done all the talking.
The new (refreshed old) me, is getting good sitting in silence with a smile on her face.
Loaves of bread and clean closets. Hurray on the goals!
I understand you preparing and analyzing for Friday’s meeting with H.
Breathe Grace. You’re going to burn out before the meeting.
Originally Posted by Grace21
I am going to let H initiate any R talk.
- This is a good idea. Let him talk and see what he is feeling.
But, there is no R right now.
Do I want one?
- A good question. I suspect the answer is maybe. So if it is not “no” then... Be patient, treat maybe as a small yes.
Even if he moved out on his own today, would that change anything?
How does one begin to ever recover any trust after all that's occurred.
Is it possible?
- Yes one can find trust again. To learn to trust again. It is possible. It requires consistent sincere honest demonstrated behaviours from H and a willingness on your part to see them.
So many questions.
I need to wait for the answers to come.
- Have faith. Answers do present themselves.
I believe this meeting is not just about pension. There is more H would like to discuss. Whether he will or not remains to be seen. He did make these arrangements; so that’s encouraging.
Dial down the expectations and be calm. Don’t worry new (refreshed old) you has got this.
And best of luck!
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
There are two big reasons why I love this board (among many). First for the sage advice, perspectives, and support. Second, it helps me organize my thoughts about events as they unfold.
Meeting with H is in the books. We spent about 1 hr 15 min together. Had a glass of wine and shared an appetizer.
We never talked about the details of the pension. But talked about plenty of other things.
I prayed a lot in the days, and even minutes, up to the meeting for God’s guidance in what words to say, knowing when to just listen, and to have events unfold as He would have them. I’m not sure I didn’t try to take that control away from Him here and there. But, I won’t beat myself up about it.
A few weeks ago, H said that I shouldn’t push so fast (for the agreement), that he wanted to talk to me. So, I reminded him of that and said “so, here I am”.
So much was said. I can’t remember the sequence. But, here goes:
1. H once again went into how he was pushed into his current sitch. That he was relieved when OWs house wasn’t selling, so he didn’t have to deal with it. I stopped him and said very clearly that ultimately he made his own decisions, put pen to paper, said to himself that he was going to buy a place with OW, and he chose to sign. Simple as that.
2. He said that even then, and still now, he was not happy. That things with OW are getting bad, real bad, and he has walked out a few times. That it’s getting ready to implode.
3. I asked him to consider whether it’s time for him to make his own decisions for him, instead of waiting for events to happen so he can avoid those decisions. That if he didn’t like his current sitch, he (I might have said we) had plenty of money for him to get a nice place on his own. To choose for himself what he wanted to do.
4. He asked whether I would consider letting him move into our spare bedroom, with no expectations to (I think he said), “touch or anything”. Just to let him use the room. I said no. I didn’t think that would be a good idea. That he needed to figure things out on his own, live on his own, and we can’t go back to the way things were. D20 is home now too, and they aren’t even speaking. She seems to hate him, and is glad he’s miserable (I didn’t say this).
A part of me (small part) wants me to allow it, but I know it will solve nothing, and in fact maybe even sanction H's indecisiveness and deceitful behaviors. I could see me falling into the role of trying to fix, turning a blind eye on all the bad behavior, and falling into all the old patterns. But, if I am truthful, I might have been a tad more tempted if D20 wasn't living here.
5. He talked about how over the course of the last year, he learned a lot about himself, and reflected on us. How he didn’t give me the attention and respect I deserved, that there are so many good things about me he never appreciated. I have no idea whether it was during this time, or at some other during the convo, but I told him that I wanted to be paid attention to, courted, and he hadn’t done that in over 10 years, probably more. He agreed. And cried a bit. I didn’t say this as a request. Just an observation about how my needs in that area were not met for so very long.
6. H said he didn’t understand why the current sitch (without me filing for D) isn’t o.k, that I’m provided for, live well, have his health insurance, etc. I told H that even now, I am not 100% sure I want a divorce, but that he’s given me no reason not to. That I don’t need status quo just for his insurance, etc. That the fact is, he is still choosing to live with, and share a life with, someone else. I asked him what he would do if the roles were reversed. I don’t think he answered.
7. He talked about how he wants to just move with me elsewhere, retire early, and start a new life together. I told him that would not solve anything, because what’s inside of him will go with him wherever he goes. I asked him whether he has contacted a therapist. He said not yet, but has a name. That he would call Monday. I told him that it won’t be easy, that it might be brutal. He said he know this.
8. He mentioned that I was probably thinking he wants me to wait around to be his fall back. I said that’s exactly what I believe, but I won’t be Plan B. I have a full, good life, and he needs to figure himself out for himself. Not for me, the kids, or OW.
9. He talked about “disappearing” for a while (still running, isn’t he?). I told him that while disappearing didn’t seem a good idea, he could consider taking 2 weeks off of work and do something different. I mentioned a dude ranch, or something along those lines. (that’s on my bucket list). He said he’s always wanted to go on a dude ranch vacation, and he contemplated it for a few moments.
Well, that’s a jumbled mess. I have no idea about the sequence of events. But, a lot came out in bits, all mixed up. Looking back, I hope I didn’t give the impression that I was going to wait around for him to figure himself out. But, I think I did leave the door open for reconciliation some day (with no guarantees, of course). I believe it would be a long shot, but I also believe in God’s power to heal, and change people. I need to allow God to do things in his own time, while getting on with life.
We never did discuss the marriage settlement agreement in specifics, just how he doesn’t understand why we can’t go on as we are. I think in a few days, I will send an e-mail I need to move clarifying I plan to still move forward with it.
When we left (we parked next to each other), he hugged me, and said “Talk soon”?”
I said “I have always told you I would talk with you at any time.”
Then I left.
I then met up with a friend. While there, H texted me and said “I was glad to see you”.
Some time later, I responded “I was glad to see you too”.
I’ve got a lot to think about, but for now, I will just get on with life, and allow H to figure out his life.
First thing on the agenda this morning, an extended bike ride with a friend, with breakfast following. Movie planned with another friend today or tomorrow, cooking a Vietnamese meal with D20, and a full morning of church activities tomorrow. I need regular 3 day weekends to fit in all my activities!
Life is good.
Grace
P.S. as I finished this (it's 6:15 a.m.), H messaged me and said "Poor sleep. Awake since 2. I will be following up on our meeting with a summary of what I think I heard withint the next 2 days".
I responded: "I look forward to hearing what you have to say".
Well done. I had a feeling he wasn't going to talk about the pension. He's avoiding that talk because it makes it very real as to what he's done and continues to do.
You handled the conversation perfectly and you are absolutely right...he needs to live on his own and figure things out. You can't rescue him from his current mess.
He's got a lot of work ahead of him and only he can do it. I think he was hoping you would allow him to move back home and hopefully he could sweep some of the stuff under the rug and pretend it never happened. I'm glad you didn't jump on that proposal.
Grace, you are doing very, very well. Continue as you have been. He's slowly but surely pulling the curtains back to see the light of day.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
