OwnIt. - Thanks for the reference for first awakening. I did find an article, and I can see H in it. I have decided to still move forward with everything.
DnJ - Good insight as always, and prompted me to mull over a few things.
Originally Posted by DnJ
How far did you come to forgiveness? How much empathy? I have a pretty good idea my good friend, however I think it would be really good for you to actually write it down.
If you know the answer, I'd like you to write it down for me! Just when I really believe I've forgiven, I get a mean streak and want terrible things to happen to H. I dwell on all the wrongs against me. That doesn't sound like forgiveness to me. Empathy and compassion I have, I believe. Heck. That is ME to the core for almost anyone. But forgiveness? Not sure about that one.
I have been starting to look at my reasons to push the D along. The piece of paper I do not believe will change my path. However, it would be freeing financially. Get the house paid off, change my investments, be able to spend as I want without worrying if it would come back to bite me if H decides to not play nice any more. Anyway. I want it all done for the right reasons, with no regrets.
Perhaps the D isn't really my choice, but it's necessary to finalize something H put into play so long ago. H divorced himself from our marriage long ago without my consent. Perhaps I'm only just making it legal.
If it's any consolation, as someone who missed the window to do it when she could (lawyer got sick and didn't get me the separation contract until he and OW1 broke up, then he wouldn't play ball), I think it is the right decision to protect the finances. Resolving the finances (whether through separation/divorce/etc) is the legal split and it doesn't have to be a forever thing. You get to decide when to have the emotional split. They don't have to be together. You seem like an "ifer" at this point. Like there is a certain set of circumstances where you could conceivably reinvest, but it changes moment-to-moment. Very reasonable and understandable position.
Don't feel bad about the mean streak. Grief is complex and anger comes in waves. Sometimes I feel compassion, other times rage, but more and more often, nothing. It is why I try not to think about the good or bad things about him or what he has done. If I think about the kids, I tend to get very angry. I'm a big girl. I've learned a lot of things about myself that I couldn't in that relationship. I am grateful to him for that.
I like what you wrote about your level of forgiveness. And I am very happy to see you sharing it with me. Oh and everyone else reading along. Boy, I sure do tend to forget and write as if I’m speaking to just the one person.
Originally Posted by Grave21
I really believe I've forgiven
Excellent.
Then what happens?
Originally Posted by Grace21
I get a mean streak and want terrible things to happen to H.
Why?
Originally Posted by Grace21
I dwell on all the wrongs against me.
(((Grace)))
The mean streak is understandable. Caused by dwelling upon the wrongs H did to you.
Forgiveness takes practice. What gets in the way is our ego. Our need to be right. Our need to judge others. Our kingship or queenship that we perceive as all controlling in our lives. Our need to rebalanced the scales. Our desire for fair play. Our need to achieve all this. Our being defined by that need.
Ego is a good thing. It is our sense of self-importance. It is our self-esteem. It is the “I’ in our book of life.
Ego also likes to write in big bold letters.
The wrongs H did to me. Let that go. Alter your ego. Define yourself differently.
You have compassion and empathy. To your core, for almost anyone. Anyone but H. Because your ego can’t let him be right. You need to be right. Give ego a different pen.
My friend, there is no right or wrong. There is only perception of the beholder.
You get your ego to see that and forgiveness will remain much longer and longer. You are getting there, you believe in compassion and empathy, you are walking the path. I see it. I have faith in you.
Originally Posted by Grave21
I really believe I've forgiven
Excellent.
Your need to be right alters your beliefs. Our situations are highly charged on a personal level. This make the ego in direct competition with our empathy. Alter the ego, and allow forgiveness to win.
Imagine when you don’t dwell on the wrongs because there aren’t any wrongs. Just things that a very hurting person did.
That is forgiveness.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
A follow up. This forgiveness is very near and dear to me.
My need to be right was adjusted.
Our default in confrontations seems to be competition. Our need to be right is also a need for the other to be wrong. That’s not a big surprise, we’re programmed that way - right/wrong, pass/fail, true/false, and such.
To defuse my “need” to be right started with just “be right”. That’s not quite as it sounds. I mean live right. Live in the light. Be honest, sincere, open, compassionate, empathetic - like you are doing.
With that living and some effort I change my views, my beliefs about right and wrong; perceptions and truths and realities.
Being right, our ego’s need, doesn’t require our spouse to fail or be wrong; it’s not a requisite.
Change right to valid.
Both views can be valid. Both views are valid.
Have a great day.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Resolving the finances (whether through separation/divorce/etc) is the legal split and it doesn't have to be a forever thing. You get to decide when to have the emotional split. They don't have to be together. You seem like an "ifer" at this point. Like there is a certain set of circumstances where you could conceivably reinvest, but it changes moment-to-moment. Very reasonable and understandable position.
This is a very good reminder. Thank you. The agreement and/or D is a business transaction. I think part of my problem is I still think D will allow me to totally move on. But, of course it’s not true. I can do that with or without the piece of paper. I will proceed carefully and thoughtfully.
Originally Posted by DnJ
Imagine when you don’t dwell on the wrongs because there aren’t any wrongs. Just things that a very hurting person did. That is forgiveness.
I believe I mostly recognize and believe the latter. But, as people of faith know, satan is always looking for an opportunity to bring people down. Whether it be to sin, despair, anxiety or ruin (of the soul). I’m beginning to see my regression as those attacks. Once recognized, we can fight and overcome them. That’s what I need to focus on to come to the place of full forgiveness, I think.
Our dialogue on forgiveness, DnJ, has prompted me to read and research a bit about it. This is from a theologian. I thought of you because long ago you wrote about being in a prison and what that release looks like. I used that analogy with H some time ago. I think it struck a chord with him.
“Forgiveness is to set a prisoner free, and to discover that prisoner was you.”
I want to be free.
I will be free.
Grace
Last edited by job; 01/08/2009:44 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
I think you are doing very well. You are thinking with your head and know that the finances are a totally separate issue from what your heart is telling you. You do not need a piece of paper to move on, but it is necessary to have that piece of paper to ensure that your assets/finances are safe and secure.
It is true that "forgiveness is to set a prisoner free, and to discover that the prisoner was you". Forgiveness is very difficult to come by after being hit w/a BD and then the behavior of our spouses tends to make us question ourselves and the marriages that have been destroyed. However, as we travel our on paths to discovery, we learn more about ourselves because we have to become independent again, learn how to deal w/life as a single person/parent and yes, be both parents while our spouses are out in La La Land.
Along the way, we encourage the posters to release that anger and try not to hold on to it because it takes far more energy than to release it. It takes time to do this and then slowly, but surely, we learn that the only way to release all of those feelings is to forgive. Forgiveness does set us free just as the truth will set you free. No one says that you will forget the experiences that we have encountered...just forgive.
Grace, I look forward to reading your postings because each and every time I do, I see growth and you are becoming wiser by the day... and the one thing that I am impressed about you is that you are willing to lay it all out there in your postings. Grace, you are a survivor and I am very proud of you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
“Forgiveness is to set a prisoner free, and to discover that prisoner was you.”
I want to be free.
I will be free.
I have no doubt you will be free.
And I love the wording. Minds are listening, and you speak really well.
I do remember my prison and my musings. Nice to hear you remembered.
Fear and un-forgiveness hold us prisoner. The two keys are within one’s self. We are both prisoner and jailer.
Satan is always ready to attack; insidiously through the cracks of doubt, fear, sin, ruin, etc... Live in the light and push back the dark.
Yep, recognize and defend against it. God will strengthen you. I look back at my forgiveness of before and compare to now. It is much stronger now. Forgiveness grows.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
A good weekend so far. Last night I went to a smallish party at some good friends. Nice time.
This morning, my daily bible reading while listening to the birds wake up. Themn off to boot camp at 9 a.m
Came home, retrieved D20, and off we went to a preserve for a hike. Just about an hour, but anytime I am outdoors, particularly in such a quiet, peaceful place, I'm happy. Nice time spent with D20 too.
Back home, and I worked on a decorative tree that needs to be removed, and started working on the garage. What can I sell? How can I use the space more efficiently? Also boxed up a few things of H.
Now here I am, contemplating my productive day, and thinking about how all these seemingly small things make up a pretty good day so far.
Tonight. Peruvian dinner with a GF.
So on Tuesday, after reviewing with my attorney, I sent H the valuation of his pension that we had another attorney do for us. I simply asked him to review, and let me know his thoughts. I added that I believed that it was the last component for the marriage settlement agreement.
No response. Not even an acknowledgement he received it. I sent him an email about taxes on Friday, and he immediately responded.
So, I wonder if he was not happy with what it said, so he is ignoring it? Waiting to speak with an attorney? (he doesn't have his own that I know of) Just mulling it over? Or just dragging his feet because (as he previosuly told me) he really doesn't want a D.
In any event, I will message him after a week, and see where he stands with it.
It's on my mind a bit, but hasn't stopped me from having a nice weekend so far.
My next project for today? Researching my next trip!
Your h saw your email and the info...but he's choosing to ignore it. He may be like OwnIt's OD when it comes to trying to settle up stuff for a divorce. The tax situation may have something in it for him, i.e., like a little bit of a return. He knows that filing taxes is a must...but he most likely will drag his feet on the pension stuff.
Enjoy your dinner and have fun planning your next trip!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
