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#2877300 12/23/19 07:49 PM
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Hi everyone!

I’m a 38H.
W43
S8, S7
Met/Started Dating 12/2007
Engaged 03/2009
Married 01/2010

For me, started to notice real M difficulty towards end of 2017 when I moved interstate for job related training for four months.

Once back home Mar 2018, things went downhill slowly.

Stayed at my parents’ house for a few nights May 2018, went on work trip for a week, came home to sort it out - got told I was not coming back to the house.

Spent three months working on me and trying to get marriage counselling started.

After three months and on advice of Christian counsellor, moved back in. W refused to see counsellor after this.
Very slow but steady improvement. Great family holidays all over the world with W and S8, S7.

Things settled enough that 06/2019 asked if we could see a different counsellor. Fierce resistance, went to three sessions in 11/2019.

Came home from two day work trip, W gone, S8,S7 gone, and most possessions gone plus a bunch of cash. Lawyer letter the next day.

Spent two weeks begging and pleading and crying. Incredible level of cruelty directed at me.

Have ordered DR, should arrive next day or two.

Praying my butt off, trying to detach a little but finding it incredibly hard.

I suspect MLC and mental health issues, I doubt any EA/PA. I have been so kind through all of this and just keep getting hurt.

S8, S7 really struggling. Help!

Last edited by job; 12/23/19 09:53 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
Kind18 #2877304 12/23/19 08:04 PM
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Welcome to this board.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy book by MWD,
Divorce Busting is also an excellent book.
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)

I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.

This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.

I would start with the going dark link.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post50956

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2537289#Post2537289

Resources thread(last post only)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2592296#Post2592296

Things you should know as the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701017#Post2701017

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Doormat Tactics
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1942444#Post1942444

Standing vs leaving
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

Musings from AmyC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741

MLC Signs
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869

The Final Stages Withdrawal to Acceptance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2074403&page=1

WAS showing you positive signs? WAIT - READ THIS!
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2772942#Post2772942

Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.

I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources.
You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.

Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!

Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you!
Start your homework assignments.
Something to DO while you are on moderation.
GAL.
Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath.
In general take care of your self first.

Detach the single most important thing to DO.

Your H/W has given you a gift
THE GIFT OF TIME
use it wisely

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-70, D37,S36
Kind18 #2877308 12/23/19 08:20 PM
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Hi, Kind. I am pretty new here myself but want to offer my support. Finding your family gone must have been such a horrible shock—I’m so sorry. This board is a good place to be, and I’m sure others will be along soon to post.


T: 16 M:10
BD 6/2019
Kind18 #2877318 12/23/19 09:23 PM
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Sending you lots of love and prayers! Check out Rejoice Ministries, that has helped a lot of us. I have been standing for seven years and faith will help you through the hardest climbs -- but I do think I made a mistake not protecting myself earlier at least by understanding my legal rights. She is not allowed to take your kids from you, so you should start with family court to ensure you have your parenting time with the kids and that they are receiving counseling.

I read here that all you have to do to stand is outlast the MLC. You can't change it, but you can outlast it, or stand until you don't want to outlast it.

I was just thinking today about all the kindness and patience I showed my H and how it was met with evil beyond evil, but how living that is a good way to understand Christ (his story was the same idea!) and to trust that God has a plan. The plan might not be to fix things as you want it. Keep being the good man you are, try not to take anything she says/does personally, be patient in knowing that the truth will come out. But use the law to protect your kids and your right to see them or it will only be used against you later for even less contact. Doing that is another way to stand for your family. They need protection from your W at least for the time you can be with them, and they need a safe landing place. A priest once told me, "If your H was burning down your house, would you just leave your kids inside to try to show your respect for him?" I often remember this whenever I get confused about trying to figure out what is best for the kids, since it will usually contradict the MLCers desires and designs.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Kind18 #2877326 12/23/19 10:30 PM
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Wow. I'm so sorry.

Unless you were an abusive spouse, I'd be pretty confident that she probably DOES have an affair partner. I'm sorry to say that, but most WASs do, and that's pretty extreme behavior that shows she's been planning this for a while. That's probably why she wasn't enthused about marriage counseling - she was already planning this.

Be really careful to document everything you can, because she may try to set you up for false charges. (Such as false charges of abuse - assuming you're not abusive, as I said.) Save every email and text exchange. Think always about how what you say would sound in court.

Seems to me there's only two kinds of spouses that leave like that - victims of abuse or sociopaths. Read the book The Sociopath Next Door and see if you recognize anything that sounds like her. Someone who was just mentally ill - depressed or psychotic - would not have been that deviously organized about it. Or that pathological. (It's also possible that she's being egged on by someone - does she have a man-hating friend or sister who is this devious?)

You need to stop begging her right NOW. Get yourself a lawyer ASAP and collect all the financial records of everything she took. You're going to have to fight for your kids, and for your fair share. Get her off your credit cards. Run a credit check to make sure she hasn't taken out loans or other cards in your name.

Check the phone records - if she's been having an affair there may be a million texts to one number. This won't matter in no-fault states but at least you would be aware of what you're up against.

Look, I'm not saying there's NO chance for reconciliation - there always is. BUT - someone who would treat you - her children's father - like this in the absence of abuse has a very serious character deficit. I think, if you were to look back on your life with her without the rose-colored glasses, you would start to see that there were red flags flying everywhere. NO ONE goes from being a good person, to someone who would do this to their spouse in the absence of abuse.

Kind18 #2877327 12/23/19 10:38 PM
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Oh - and need I point out, the most sociopath part of this, she does it right before the holidays???

Look, Ive been here for years, and seen a LOT of stories. Just picking up and cleaning out the bank accounts and the house happens pretty infrequently - and is a giant red flag that your spouse has a pretty serious personality disorder (or serious drug addiction, but even they usually aren't this organized).

What's your best guess as to what is REALLY going on?

Kind18 #2877497 12/25/19 12:45 AM
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TBH, I don’t know.

We have been getting help from our church minister. He assured me that he doesn’t think there’s anyone else involved. He was absolutely gob-smacked to hear what W had done and has no answers either.

There’s no substance abuse issues, and there’s been no domestic violence at any time.

I have access to the children now through lawyers, but not nearly as much as I’d like.

I still suspect mental health issues and MLC are at work here. That’s the only thing I can put it down to. I (like everyone) haven’t been the perfect spouse, but nothing I’ve done or said could possibly warrant how this has gone down over the last 18 months and particularly the last month.

W has a new therapist as of about six months ago, I imagine she is telling W all the problems in her life are my fault.

W made a new friend two years ago, and has detached from some of her long term friends. The new friend was from interstate, and had left an abusive relationship. She took her son and fled for 9 months before the courts allowed him access. In the space of 12 months she met a new guy (very rich) and had married him. I think she has been a horrible influence on W, projecting her life and circumstances our family.

I wish the postal system would hurry up and deliver DR!!

No-one around me or involved in our situation can understand why W as arrived at this point.

I know I need to just detach and work on me for now, but that’s hard when there’s custody issues and lawyers barking at each other.

Detaching has shown some positive results already in the last few days.

I’m still praying for a miracle - and getting busy on me in the mean time.

Kind18 #2877530 12/25/19 07:01 AM
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Kind, that is brutal how she did it. I'm with KML, doesn't sound like any midlifer I've heard of. I've read lots and lots of accounts over many years. For your sake, I hope it isn't MLC because if it is, you are years and years away from any kind of ending you are looking for in your posts. Can you wait that long? Can you keep yourself on a shelf for 3 years, 5 years, 7-10 years or more hoping she comes back? Can you live with the thought you might do that and she never comes back? What if you make this the best 7-10 years of your life? If she didn't come back, would it matter?

In my own experience, as long as you are praying for a particular outcome, then you are not detached. You really will not know what effect it will have on you or her until you get there. For me, detachment took a long, long time and I think let my H know I was sitting up on the shelf waiting for him. Must be really comfortable knowing you have a nice life you can go back to whenever the fun new one isn't so fun anymore. Guess I can't really blame him for wanting to know he had that Plan B. I could care less what happens now because I have a life I value and the people in my life want to be there. I can't worry any more about the ones who don't want to be.

You may be right about the friend, but does it matter? What is it going to change? DR is helpful, but it isn't a cure-all. That is inside of you.

Cry, scream, run a marathon, do something. Action feels better than inaction. Time goes by much faster when you are busy and focused on other things. That's really what it is about.

Kind18 #2877540 12/25/19 08:04 AM
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Hello K

I am sorry. What a cruel way to have the rug pulled out from under you. I have some experience in that treatment.

Most WAS / MLCers are cruel to an extent. It helps justify what they are doing. And remember, they are doing it. Your W’s actions and behaviours are about her not you.

Her cleaning out the house and accounts demonstrates her intent, and highlights your pressing need. In all of this situation you have the healing side, your path and the business side, the allocation of assets and custody. Sorry for how cold that sounds, but that is the reality of it. The business side is just that - a business deal that went sideways. Keep emotions out of this side of things.

In most cases the advice is to let the spouse do the heavy lifting, and for you to not help or hinder. In this particular case I believe you need to protect you and your kids ASAP. See a lawyer. Get advice, and learn your rights. Information is power.

I agree with the others and encourage a sense of urgency to you. Please look into this - soon. You can then make an informed decision.

It looks like you have been speaking with a L. The lawyers barking at each other and custody issues, for example. If you have hired a lawyer, good for you. Pass the fight to him, your sanity is important. Your L works for you, let him. That’s just some encouragement; as it’s hard to let go of this and trust it to someone else. Don’t worry you always have the final say.

I am glad you are looking towards yourself and willing to heal. And yes keep praying, you will be surprised how those prayers are answered.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Kind18 #2877976 12/29/19 02:38 AM
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Has been a tough few weeks.

Met with my church minister the other day. He indicated she is struggling with living arrangements and finance, and that I should be helping out with that in the best interests of the kids and getting them some security and normality.

My family/friends don’t agree. While I’m being asked to turn the other cheek and be incredibly generous, I’m getting letters from her lawyer about wanting to accelerate financial settlement and she is still giving me minimal access to the kids.

I’m sorry her life is hard, but these decisions are her responsibility. I can’t rescue her any more, I can’t keep rolling over and being the bigger person - because that just perpetuates the problem we’ve had for two years now. No responsibility, bad decisions, hurtful and premeditated abuse. If she wants rescuing from this, she’s going to have to do it herself. I can’t keep trying to save her, because it makes me too vulnerable to getting hurt.

If this is going to have a happy ending, she’s going to have to decide for HERSELF that’s what she wants. Any other solution is just a waste of time. I’ve told her how I feel, I’ve told her what I want and the behaviour is not changing.

I’m not closing the door because my vow was my vow. And I know she’s confused and unwell, but solving her difficulties right now is actually the worst thing I can do for her long term future.

I just need to keep concentrating on me, and leaving everything else to God. One day at a time...

Last edited by job; 12/29/19 01:14 PM. Reason: edited a sentence for the poster
Kind18 #2877993 12/29/19 01:26 PM
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Kind,

I am so very sorry about your situation. Some MLCers can be very nasty and do some terrible things like clean the house out and the bank accounts and then sit back and struggle financially because they have spent all of the money w/o budgeting for things in life and then expect us to jump through hoops to settle up in court.

As for your church minister, he may be a could listener, but he's not the one walking in your shoes and having to deal w/someone who has lost the plot. She is the one that moved out, she is the one now responsible for her own life, living arrangements and yes, even budgeting. She had a nice home and family, but most of all a loving husband and she has chosen to walk away from all of those things and start fresh. The mess she created is of her own making.

I would focus on the welfare of my children and if you have to provide additional money to take care of them, then this is something you will need to discuss w/your lawyer how to go about ensuring that the funding is used appropriately. Your lawyer can guide you on this issue. I suggest that you document as much as you can on the visits w/your children. Don't ask the children questions, but listen because children do tend to talk. If you hear something that isn't right, document it.

Dig deeper for patience and keep the focus on you and your children. Your children need you now more than ever. Leave your wife in God's hands.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Kind18 #2878003 12/29/19 03:31 PM
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Hi so sorry..very tough situsation

I would be fighting to get custody at this point

(I am a mom) so that would be my main and only focus

You are in a different situation being dad and I would follow the advice of the L to secure more custody at least 50/50
so you can provide a stable home for your boys.
saying that, I would help as seems appropriate for the boys
and if the kids are in danger and struggling , I would try to push L for quicker results with custody agreement

We don't really know what happened to your W..
I would guess she had a fantasy life planned (maybe her friend did influence but that is done)
and she thought it would evolve if she left..It may be MLC or Mental illness or both, and if it is a true MLC..it will probably take many years
Many MLCers do have substance abuse issues even if they get a prescription or two for anxiety
I would watch for that..many start drinking or using other drugs as well-
nothing is off limits for a mlcer
she is not the same wife you had and you will see many alarming changes especially if MLC is the issue

BUT
at this time no one can really know what will happen
only time will tell and you will gain clarity in time

Usually a therapist will encourage M and a productive lifestyle and choices
/unless there is abuse and if her therapist cant see her illness, she is probably a pretty bad therapist



What can you do:
Make sure the kids are safe,,be a stable parent for them
Focus on you to heal to get counseling/support and grieve the loss and sudden change in your life

Meditate, pray continue your walk with God
join support group
find a hobby try to keep busy

Patience to wait until the answers and solutions are available

protect your assets and your kids
(the MLCer will take everything and everyone down with them)
they usually become terrible parents as well

time will heal you..and many of the LBS(US) create new lives

Hang in


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Kind18 #2878017 12/29/19 06:45 PM
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Thanks for the support everyone, it’s really helping me to get by one day at a time.

The DR book has arrived and I’m about half way through my first reading of it. A lot of it makes sense.

I’m trying the 180s. Her L has indicated he wants information about financial settlement by Jan 10, so that’s making the whole “be patient” thing fairly difficult.

But yes, she needs to be left in God’s hands atm.

Had a great 48 hours with kids and just about to return them back to her for a whole week. It’s easy to be despondent about that, but I need to focus on the wonderful 48 hours instead of the negative. I’ll be happy, and cheerful, and resilient when I return the children. No more begging/pleading here. I have a life to get on with and I intend to do that - whether or not she wants to be part of it!

Kind18 #2878023 12/29/19 07:31 PM
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The rush to a financial settlement seems very quick. But you do need to produce financial statements. I assume you have your own attorney - if not, you need one ASAP.

What kind of financials are we talking about here? In community property states, a typical settlement would be 1/2 of assets acquired during the course of the marriage, and if she’s not working or earns considerably less than you, alimony for 1/2 the number of years you were married. There are formulas for child support - I’m assuming, if your job involves travel, that you can’t fight for 50% custody?

Do you own your home? Was it bought during your marriage? Do you have equity in it?

Kind18 #2878226 12/31/19 08:44 AM
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Ugh. So frustrated with myself.

I have been employing the 180s fairly well, minimal contact (except for arrangements for the kids). I’ve been feeling stronger in myself and more resolved not to beg/plead/cry and chase. Every time before I go to see her, I read the 180s and Sandi’s 37 to pep me up and toughen my resolve to be kind but assertive.

W just drove past and decided to drop in with the kids and we talked about our R.

Very quickly it became a “you’ve done everything wrong, this is all your fault” type conversation.

And stupid me, I was reduced to a sobbing mess - promising that I loved her (she was asking why I’m so happy and if I have someone else) and that I’d do anything to make it work.

She left having got what she wanted - knowing that she still has me in her back pocket whenever she wants.

And now 30 mins later, I’m so disappointed in myself for having fallen into my old door mat pattern.

I know this will set me back days, or even weeks.

F***.

Kind18 #2878232 12/31/19 11:07 AM
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Hey mate

Sorry to hear about this recent exchange. Don’t beat yourself up though because we’ve all done things we wish we did differently with the benefit of hindsight. I think it important though that you don’t mention it to her at all again. Act as if it didn’t happen and certainly don’t apologise.

Next time you see her be the very best levelled up version of you you can be. Find a good mantra to repeat before any interaction as these calm things as well as breathing exercises.

If she asks about girlfriends just say I’m focusing on myself and the kids. If she asks why you’re happy just say I’m making the best of things. Short vague answers. Read every quote from ready2changes quotes thread then read again. Find robx and read his posts as well.

Good luck buddy keep posting

Cheers ds


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Kind18 #2878234 12/31/19 11:39 AM
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Thanks mate.

Kind18 #2878261 12/31/19 02:18 PM
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Hi Kind

It happens,,,this is a tough road and we forget that the asking, talking, crying stuff works against us
try to let it go
we all go through this especially in the beginning

I think DS9 gave some great advice

hang in friend
It does get better
you will get stronger
the story is not over yet-


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Kind18 #2878265 12/31/19 03:32 PM
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Good Morning K

I’m a pretty big encourager of compassion. And that includes for yourself.

Be kind to yourself. There is no need to beat yourself up over your emotional responses. We’ve all done that - both cried, begged, plead and felt horrible after it.

You are right, she was looking for a fix; to see you still attached and on her hook.

I recall my XW and her smugness when lording over me with her absolute confidence in her story. At one point she was cruelly consoling me. That her and OM are soulmates and that if, and that’s an if not a when, I was to maybe ever find a companion that I would need do a better job and she my ex-wife could tell me all my faults so I would know what to fix but it would take around 2 hours and I was far to weak at the moment.

Bah. Pure garbage they spew. But that smugness is irritating and they seem so sure of their new life.

Breathe. Focus on you.

Of course your W is going to blame you. She cannot blame herself for all this. She’s in an emotional crisis - she cannot be wrong. Her psyche cannot handle reality right now. She will come back looking for justifications for her actions. She will come back to blame you. Do not get drawn into any relationship conversations.

I am glad you see this and your reaction to her. I am also glad you see your response to the aftermath of her; the funk you are currently in. Some people are clouded in denial about this and much else. Since you are not, you are already walking the path.

So what to do?

Think about what W said. I know her words are on loop right now in your mind. Stop that replaying! The big red stop sign, GAL activities, whatever works. Find your way to pause your run away emotions. You can resume them later for processing at your convenience. Yeah, the holy grail of emotional awareness - I know. But you can get there.

Anyhow, I said think - not feel - think about what she said. If there are some parts of truth in there, fine. Work on them. For you. Make yourself the best Kind18 you can be. A man she would be foolish to leave. This is very much for you.

Also limit your interactions with her. These conversations with W show you how, for the moment, she is not going to, nor is ready to, listen to reason. And she won’t be for quite some time, sorry to say.

Do not have a R conversion. When she bring it up, extract yourself from it. Be vague, bring up something else, or just leave the room - any of those is better than being dragged through a “Let’s blame H conversation”.

As I said, don’t beat yourself up. You are gaining valuable experience and will know better next time.

Originally Posted by Kind18
Every time before I go to see her, I read the 180s and Sandi’s 37 to pep me up and toughen my resolve to be kind but assertive.

W just drove past and decided to drop in with the kids and we talked about our R.

Nice to see you prepping before a planned visit with her.

This time appears to be a spontaneous visit from her. That is unlikely, she most likely planned her side and caught you unawares.

MLCer are an emotional mess. However they are driven to get what they feel they need. They will mow down anyone and anything that gets in their way. W needed her fix about blaming you. Her visit was probably planned and orchestrated for her to get it. She had a goal.

What can we maybe do for next time she shows up like that.

- “Oh, Hi W. I was about to go out. Sorry, you should’ve called.” And then go out somewhere. Don’t tell her where or anything about it.

- ”Thanks for bring the kids over for a visit.” When she bring up R talks - “I’m visiting the kids right now.” If she persists - “ We can talk about us later if you like.” Or “I see little point in discussing our relationship.” Whatever works for you.

- Welcoming her in. Paste a smile on your face, act as it. Enjoy the visit. And deflect any and all of her attempts at pulling you in.

It’s tough stuff. She knows all your buttons to push. You need to shut them off, which is more or less impossible - so you take back control from her. Push them yourself and get used to, and control of, your reactions. It amounts to shutting down her access to your inner self.

By the way, set backs happen. And they are forward movement. We need setbacks, as counterintuitive as that sounds.

Focus on you. Work towards detachment.

Your doing fine. Really.

And take it easy on Kind18. He’s a good guy and been through a lot. smile

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
DnJ #2878342 01/01/20 06:39 AM
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Wow DnJ.

You just know all the right things to say

Last edited by Kind18; 01/01/20 06:40 AM.
Kind18 #2878346 01/01/20 08:05 AM
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Hey kind

How you doing today buddy. Hope your internal landscape is a bit calmer.

Yep DnJ is the go to guy to smooth out the very worst peaks and valleys us members go through. He’s a self less legend.

Happy new year 🥳


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Kind18 #2878411 01/01/20 10:57 PM
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Hey mate. I’m going okay - thanks for thinking of me.

Happy new year to you too!

This is such a great community.

Kind18 #2895763 05/24/20 11:49 AM
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Thought I should provide an update...

The divorce has become as ugly as one would expect from a sociopath. But I’m getting better. Slowly. Every day I feel a bit stronger and realise I didn’t deserve this, it’s not my fault. I’ve finally realised that despite my desperate attempts to be nice, you just can’t negotiate with a terrorist - which is exactly what a WAS in MLC is.

I made a completely reasonable financial proposal which she didn’t respond to for several months. When my lawyer asked her for an update - she responded with an application to court for financial settlement. Is refusing any attempt at amicable third party driven mediation. So controlling and narcissistic.

After six months of reasoned, calm and common sense techniques from my lawyer and I, she is still refusing to budge on custody - so we’re off to court for that too. I have no other option to protect the future of my kids with 50:50 access.

She has taken $70k cash in six months and has applied to the court for 4:1 (yeah you read that right) split of our asset pool, plus $400/week alimony, plus $300/week child support, plus me to pay all her court costs. All of this while I’m temporarily unemployed and unpaid from my job due to COVID19. She’s absolutely delusional. How much is from her and how much is from the lawyer I don’t know, but her lawyer is getting paid by the hour and so has no motivation to go to mediation or see an amicable financial or custodial solution. However, she is still responsible for directing her lawyer so it’s still her responsibility. If I told her the sky is blue she would risk her life trying to prove its green with purple polka dots.

Still hasn’t got off her @ss and got a job. I think she expects to remain a stay at home Mum on her old lifestyle of drinking coffee all day with her girlfriends and that I’m going to fund it all. My lawyer is taking the lead now. I spent 10 years as the main bread winner (in a demanding, well paid job) and every minute I was home I was doing all the housework, renovated three houses myself and being a great Dad.

I have to stay patient and indifferent, but part of me just wants it done. I still love her and the person she was when we married, but I’ve realised how toxic it is to be around her. I don’t want to be cruel or adversarial, I just want to get on with building a new life for me and my two little men rather than being a slave and money fountain for a very unwell person that I just can’t help any more. I stuck by her through 12 years of bouts of anorexia and depression and it’s now time I found ways to add energy to my life rather than have it sucked away.

I remember finding a topless photo of her on her phone 18 months ago which she explained as “I took it to send to you but got overwhelmed and changed my mind.” Can’t believe I fell for that. Most responders to my initial post discussed the very real possibility there was an EA/PA. Looking back on this event, it now seems obvious there probably was/still is. Guilt is a powerful motivator to justify treating someone like sh**.

Oh and she ignored every one of my and my lawyer’s multiple requests over the last four months for me to see our dying family pet, and then had him put down without giving me the opportunity to say goodbye first. Rang me from the vet in tears. Did she expect sympathy and comforting from me? Sociopathic behaviour 101.

These MLCs are completely insane, horrrible, manipulative, sick people.

I can’t wait to rebuild a new life without all this cruelty. I deserve it!

Last edited by job; 05/24/20 03:41 PM. Reason: edited language
Kind18 #2895767 05/24/20 02:09 PM
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Good Morning K

It’s nice to hear from you.

Sorry you are so embroiled within the business side of this mess. MLCers, W, will act irrationally. They live with constant emotional pressures. Everything for them is driven from feelings and torment. Months of nothing and then demands of court settlements, a 4 to 1 spilt, an unfair custody arrangement - yeah it’s tough. It’s irrational.

You sound strong and stable. Well done!

Listen to your lawyer and let him secure and protect your and your boys futures. I am sure he has explained your rights and how bizarre her requests are. This is the business side of things. I’m glad to see you keeping your emotions out of it. Well mostly. smile And you are correct - you cannot negotiate with a terrorist.

In my opinion, if an idea or arrangement, no matter how sound and logical, doesn’t come from the MLCer, they will dismiss it. The MLCer just needs to think feel they came up with the idea or the final putting it in to action. It takes some finesse, and luck, to find a way for an irrational person to feel they’ve won and therefore accept something - as I said, regardless of how beneficial it actually is for them.

Another thing, which I figure you already realize, is that MLCers usually talk big but don’t act very quickly. 6 months and still nothing signed or close to being signed. If this pace suits you, let her do the heavy lifting. As long as your boys are safe, you get to see them appropriately, financial matters are ok - then be patient. However, if things are not good, you can push this forward to protect yourself.

I am glad to read about your healing path. You are a great Dad. You want to be compassionate and non adversarial. It’s good to realize that being cruel will do little; it will just bring you regrets later on.

I’m sorry you didn’t, and couldn’t see your dying pet. People in crisis can behave in cruel and horrible manner, they have such a lack of empathy, actually temporarily lack the ability for empathy. Their own emotional torment overrides everything else - rational thought, empathy, sympathy, morality, judgement, decision making, and so on. It’s all about them and their feelings. Case in point, your W called from the vet, crying. She was sad for her loss.

You are doing well K. Detachment and indifference are must haves to get through this mess. I do promote the idea of compassionate indifference; and if I may be so bold I think it would suit you well.

As time progresses your indifference towards W will lessen. Let compassion in. You can feel empathy. You have the ability.

Originally Posted by Kind18
Did she expect sympathy and comforting from me?

Yes. She did.

She didn’t call to torment you. Her being an irrational mess, does not necessarily make her without conscience. MLC just overrides as her emotions are cranked to eleven.

Quote
These MLCs are completely insane irrational, behave horribly, manipulative, and sadly quite sick people.


Separate the behaviour from the person. Seeing behaviour and person separately alters how one defines a person and the choices that persons makes.

This is of course for you. Your path. Your healing. Compassionate indifference, kindness, understanding, empathy, and forgiveness. Good and noble headings to walk towards, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Kind18
I can’t wait to rebuild a new life without all this cruelty. I deserve it!

Yes, you and your boys do deserve and good life.

Start rebuilding now. What is preventing it?

From my experience - it’s you. Yes, W reaches in and stirs things up, behaves cruelly, and is dragging out settling anything. So what, she doesn’t and cannot control you. Focus on you and your boys. Live that good life.

Strong and stable.

You got this.

DnJ


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Kind18 #2895787 05/24/20 09:52 PM
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Thanks DNJ. You’re such a lighthouse for many of us. “No More Mr Nice Guy” has been a good read too.

Quote
Focus on you and your boys. Live that good life. Strong and stable.


Yep

Kind18 #2898331 06/24/20 02:52 PM
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Hi everyone!

It’s time for me to move on. I just want to concentrate 100% on being a great Dad, work a great job so I can provide financially for my family, and get on with the rest of my life. I definitely need to be free of the stress and drama and heartache of always trying to rescue and placate a sociopath.

I still have the odd bad day here and there, but they’re much more infrequent now, and overall I’m at peace that the happiest way forward is without her. That will produce the strongest, most resilient Dad in the long term - so that is what I am doing for my kids.

I hope she gets her **** in a pile, because I’d like to see her happy eventually. I don’t wish anything bad on her, no matter how cruel and manipulative and immoral she chooses to be towards me. Most likely a long journey of discovery and self realisation is beyond her, but I hope for her sake she can climb that mountain. As my IC always tells me “the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior!”

I’m going to head on over to the divorce forum and continue my journey there. Once I start a thread I’ll link from here to there.

I’m still stood down from work, but that’s good! I’m renovating, painting, camping with the kids, bike riding, going out for coffee, and reconnecting with so many great people. I’ve also been hitting the gym hard and have put on 8kg since separation and a six pack has slowly appeared.

When I have custody of my two little men, I still sneak in at night and watch them sleep for a few mins. This strong, rebuilding man is still brought to his knees by their innocence!

I hope everyone is well. This is such a great community... I hope one day to be able to give back and support others as you’ve all supported me.

Kind18 #2898522 06/25/20 09:50 PM
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Hi Kind

That was a very nice read.

Detach, let go, GAL - it does wonders.

Well done!

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
Kind18 #2898658 06/27/20 11:19 AM
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Thanks DNJ.

Onwards and upwards ...

Kind18 #2899665 07/11/20 12:00 PM
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Read this on another thread, and couldn’t believe how succinctly it described my exact situation.

Quote
It starts out with her threatening a divorce when you confront her about her inappropriate behavior. Instead of her apologizing and correcting it, she throws up the D card. How serious she is........nobody knows, but I can tell you that once she starts threatening, it will weigh on her mind more & more. The fact that she blames you for everything, says she doesn't take responsibility for her part in this situation, IMHO. Maybe some of that comes from not being held accountable when she was growing up, or after she became an adult. Perhaps you are the only one she sees to blame, depending on how small her world has become.

Kind18 #2908404 11/13/20 01:10 PM
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Thought I should provide another update.

Financial settlement has been ratified by the court. Alimony claim (it’s called spousal maintenance in Australia) was thrown out. Custody - report from the court found I’m a great Dad, gave me more custody in the interim, and return to court mid next year so I can apply for even more.

Kids are doing great. I’ve never seen them happier. I always praise their Mum despite her treating me worse than ever, but simultaneously they seem to be joining the dots and working things out for themselves. The youngest constantly asks for hugs and gives me shoulder massages (he’s physical touch). The elder one looks at me with quiet respect and knows how hard I’ve been fighting. He’s going to be academic like I was when I was young.

House sells shortly, and that will be another great leap forward.

She came to collect some things last week. Let’s just say I was so incredibly proud of the way I handled it. She completely embarrassed herself and appears to have lost all control of her mental health. I was calm, stable, kind and empathetic. I couldn’t have done that 12 months ago. I think as we move close to being completely disconnected she is struggling with the loss of control over me.

But I’ve realised that I can be simultaneously sad and embarrassed for her, and yet also know it’s not my problem to fix and walk in the complete opposite direction. It’s hard watching someone you used to love tearing their life apart in a maelstrom of self destructive behaviour. I hope she gets some help and finds her happiness - that would make me happy too.

I think she’s got a boyfriend, but don’t really give a s***. I hope he’s got his money locked away grin Maybe if that works out she will finally put down her sword and we can all get on with our lives amicably.

I’m getting fit. Have put on 10kg (22lbs) muscle at the gym since she left. Have rekindled my passion for downhill MTB with some mates from work. Renovated the entire inside of the house over the last six months and increased the value about $100k. She’ll see most of that advantage due to the financial split (and I paid for all the materials myself)... but I don’t really give a s***. It gave me a goal and structure while unemployed due COVID - and if that money ends up giving my kids a better quality of life when they live with her, that’s a good outcome in my mind.

Have been chatting with a few lady friends, but no dates. One is incredibly beautiful, smart, talented, funny and grounded - but we are in completely different phases of our life so I’ll just cultivate it as a friendship only for now. If the right person comes along, I think perhaps in another 6 months or so I might try a date or two and see what happens.

Have strengthened relationships with all of all my family, especially my brother. I feel more self aware, more cognisant of my own worth, less like I have to carry the world on my shoulders... almost like I’m just a passenger on this wild ride around the sun. You never know how many more laps you’re going to get, so make the most of every one!

I also don’t harbour regret despite all her heinous behaviour. I met an incredibly kind, honest, wonderful person and we had the most amazing relationship and made two incredible little boys I’m growing into men. I made the best decision I could at the time and I wouldn’t change it for the world. But I’m also acutely aware that person doesn’t exist any more and my ultimate future is without her in my life (beyond co-parenting). Perhaps in a few more years I’ll realise this was a blessing. Despite her leaving me, I’m getting her served in two weeks time. I imagine that will be hard for her as she loses one of the few things she has left to control me. I feel sorry that it will probably hit her like a ton a bricks.

If you’re new here... it gets better. Not quickly. Not without setbacks. Not without hard work. But it does get better. It’s like climbing an icy mountain. Sometimes you have crap days. Sometimes you lose your footing and slide backwards. But when those days happen, you just have to zoom out and look a the big picture. Three steps forward followed by 2 steps back - and eventually you’ll still reach the summit.

A few veterans on DB told me the 12 month mark was a real turning point for them, and have to agree with their experience.

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Glad things seem to be going ok in the court proceedings. I wonder, as you look back now, do you see any signs that she wasn’t quite who you thought she was earlier in the marriage?

Not to rewrite history, but I came to understand after my divorce that my ex was a narcissist. It just wasn’t obvious to me earlier in the marriage because as long as I was accommodating to his wishes and made him look good everything seemed good.

Kind18 #2908417 11/13/20 03:00 PM
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life is sounding good Kind18! I'm happy for you. Indeed we get stronger and things get better. I think the 12 month mark is right for me as well. There is so much life to live to be stuck entangled with someone unworthy.


BD: Sep 2019
D in progress
Kind18 #2908423 11/13/20 06:12 PM
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Quote
I wonder, as you look back now, do you see any signs that she wasn’t quite who you thought she was earlier in the marriage?


Yes, yes I do.

I used to feel sorry for her. Somehow, she had came from a string (20+) of terrible relationships, where the guy was always a douchebag. She could never seem to get a break, and had weird and wonderful stories about how she had been a victim so many times. Bouts of anorexia, depression and unresolved mental health issues from teenage years with on and off medication.

Enter me. Strong, stable, fixer, good income... and things moved very quickly. I have no doubt she lined me up as a baby-daddy as her clock started ticking early thirties.

Now I look back and realise she wasn’t a victim at all. The string of bad relationships was her fault. Her mental health issues always remained bubbling under the surface, unresolved. They simply simmered away gathering momentum. I was the only guy who actually put up with her crap and kept her on the rails enough to have a marriage and kids.

And as she rounded the corner and hit peri-menopause, those unresolved issues exploded into MLC and subsequently the world’s most acrimonious divorce.

I think the thing she ended up resenting me for the most was that I made her see things about herself that she had run from and hidden her whole life. But she’s completely beyond ever being able to have that level of insight to herself.

I had a huge case of NGS. I used to think I was the luckiest guy in the world and that I’d managed to save her from a world full of arsehole guys. Now I look back and realise I was the only one prepared to put up with her s***.

Anyway, that’s far too much talk about her problems - which are no longer mine to fix or manage!

Kind18 #2908437 11/13/20 09:11 PM
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Good for you! You might want to pay a visit to our friend Andrew in the Surviving the Big D forum. His case of NGS has gotten him mixed up with a hoarder in a post-D relationship. Key for you going forward will be to watch for the red flags and avoid repeating a pattern.

Good job on the sweat equity btw. It’ll benefit your kids. And your skills will be even better for your next home!

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Thanks kml!

Kind18 #2927575 12/21/21 11:13 AM
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Your link has been removed because it is not related to the "Divorce Busting" site. I'm sorry.

Last edited by job; 12/21/21 01:49 PM. Reason: Removed link to another site not related to DB
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