At the end of last thread, W had stalled signing papers, and is still thinking about things.
Since then W and I have had a few phone conversations and they have gone well. She ended R with OM ad began to tell me a list of his faults and why it just did not work out--something she denied so strongly in the past. Kids counselor noticed they have been better this week and they told her it's due to OM not being around.
She is curious about my R and asking many questions. I answered some but kept others to myself. W told me she missed having a family, now regrets the split custody agreement and said I am free to take them back to her if I get tired or fatigued. I declined. W also mentioned she would like co-parenting sessions with she and I to address the future. She also mentioned counseling for us to discuss the past and possibly future between us, but I declined. She has also began reconnecting with family.
She does not miss me but misses the family and having me around for the kids. I am not missed due to "vindictive" behaviors and she continues to throw soft daggers at me. At one point, she asked me why I filed for divorce. This was 1.5 years ago and I cannot imagine why she is bringing it up now.
So it seems she has some clarity. But she continues to blame me for many things and says I must enjoy her suffering. This is far from the truth. I do not know what the future brings but I am hopeful she can restore relationships with everyone, especially our children.
I am in a stable R and hope it moves forward in a strong fashion. W seems to be interested in it and has met with GFs ex husband, after he basically stalked her. She admitted unloading information about our D and how much of a monster I am/was. Not sure what GFs ex will do with it but we are prepared.
Might be worth having some co parenting sessions with her to make sure she is being a responsible parent and keep doors open and civil especially for the kids maybe some of her past actions will come out for resolution
I would guess she wants you back under her thumb and has not really done much work on herself except dumped the loser.
I would also wonder if you don't get back with her if she will opt for therapy and help or find another OM.
She is reconnecting, but this seems like a fast MLC Im sure its possible, but without her getting help..I would wonder is it real recovery
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I am absolutely doing JC with regards to the kids. My hopes are we can keep it civil from here on out.
She avoided stating to wanting me back but said she missed the family and wishes the kids could have us both around. She also wants to keep things "equitable" between the households.....bed time, snack time, activities etc... she has stated several times I should end my R due to GFs ex Kids clearly enjoy time with me and I'm sure W cannot stand it.
She claims to be in IC and says it is helping.
Part of me is selfish.....it was so easy to watch R with OM fall apart. The thought of her with a "normal" person is somewhat scary. I'm not sure why. I just hope there is not several OM introduced to the kids.
She thinks she wants you back. Doesn’t mean she’s serious - but she’s seeing the consequences of her actions, including losing you and another woman being involved in her kids’ lives and it’s freaking her out.
It’s not unusual for the WAS to want us to be waiting on the shelf as their Plan B in case things don’t work out with the OP, and to suddenly get interested when the LBS moves on.
Question for you - would you be interested in reconciliation if you weren’t with new GF?
Yes I agree. She tells me on a daily basis how I need to distance myself due to GFs psychopathic ex.
I think the healing process has begun but she is a long way from a finish line.
On our phone conversations, W has stated that she thinks I want her back. When I asked how she felt, she said "not at this point."
I told her I am moving on with my life and if she gets to a point of interest to let me know, and that I won't be chasing her around like I had done in the past. She then admitted that she missed me.
I am in an incredible R with a wonderful woman. Her ex is a sadistic narcissist and has caused many problems in levels i never imagined. It is tiring and I don't know how much more I can take. Perhaps this is a good point to do some soul searching?
Question for you - would you be interested in reconciliation if you weren’t with new GF?
I was going to ask the same question! Though the way you write about it, it sure looks like you would be but you are scared to imagine starting that long road.
Originally Posted by Hamburg
Her ex is a sadistic narcissist and has caused many problems in levels i never imagined. It is tiring and I don't know how much more I can take. Perhaps this is a good point to do some soul searching?
You are a doctor and know a lot about statistics and prognoses. The rate of divorce for a second marriage is extremely high. I know now more than ever that we marry our spouse's past as well as his/her family. You'd be marrying a new spouse's past, her family, AND many years to come of problems with her ex. If you are already tired 8 months in, soul searching sounds like a great idea.
Maybe Hamburg solo (Hamb Solo?) would be a good path to take for a while. You will be able to see things more clearly if you are coming from a place of reflection and peace instead of feeling like you are choosing between two women.
Also -- if you know your wife is in MLC, I don't understand why you keep being surprised that she is confused or contradicts herself or says she doesn't want to be with you and then implies she misses you. It seems like your W is pretty much following the script.
Last edited by Gerda; 12/19/1904:53 AM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Hello guys. That first question is tough to answer. I do not know how I would feel if my current R never happened/were over. I had checkpoints along the way and it has been quite a while since I told myself I would accept her back (of course, with months-years of counseling and cooperation). I know W is hurting. I don't know how we would overcome the things that were said, actions, the lies, damage to the children, families, etc... I understand W is in a world of hurt. One thing I always told myself was that she made conscious decisions along the way, regardless of her mental issues. So I can answer that in my current situation, I would not go back. I do not know how to answer if things were different.
The healing process seems to be starting, as I have seen a month of consistent behaviors/actions from W. The daggers a slowing, she cooperates with the kids, dipping her toes with family reconnection. At last conversation, W said she is not ready to commit to reconciling the marriage "at this point" , wants to remain single for some time and think about things. Romantic R with OM is supposedly over and he occasionally comes around as a "friend." I assume he is being put on a shelf as plan B. The kids have corroborated this with the counselor. I know it will be a loooooong road, and I hope whatever clarity visible this past month will stick and grow. It is also, perhaps coincidental, that she is not in good financial shape, the kids are starting to speak up and the drama has been at a lull for several months. So I guess the dust is settling and things are not as shiny as she thought.
I understand the issues with GFs ex. We are exclusive with each other but taking things slowly with moving forward. We are open and honest with each other and it is healthy. I cannot exit a R due to an ex. If things get worse, I would give that consideration though.
I am keeping my guard up with all of this stuff and being cautious, particularly with W.
I would trust yourself to know which way is best for you.
Im glad to hear your W is making a shift..It is rare we see a MLCer get to the other side, Im sure many do, but maybe posters dont update..
so this is hopeful at least for her and your kids I hope she continues to thrive and for you... no matter what the situation with your W..you may want to encourage this and buiid a solid coparenting friendship and help her along the way especially if she is in therapy and trying to work her issues out
leave the outcome to a higher source...
good luck
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Christmas was a good day overall. Got the kids in the afternoon and had a chat with W for a bit. She brought some homemade goodies for all of us to enjoy. While chatting, she opened up that she and OM are now back together and she knows its "not what I want to hear." He is again amazing and she wants me to be nice to him. I really do not care about it though, and I am certainly not going to be nice if I encounter him again. She inquired a bit about my R and I said it was going strong despite setbacks from GFs ex. She began to cry and told me to think of the kids, and thinks they are in danger--which is not true. She does not want me to be in a R. She questioned more about past romantic escapades of mine and I said it was none of her business. I also told her I had no interest in having her back in my life romantically. She replied with a smug "yeah, right... you know that's not true."
She called her parents and it was the first time they spoke in months. Kids told her we were going to visit them this week and I was getting many questions about it--mainly about why we are keeping it secret from her. She said it would strain her relationship with her parents if we go again. I informed her that is not the case and we are going later this week.
So, feels like this was a touch and go, coupled with the stress of the holidays. I thought it may be.
At the end of the conversation I called a truce and asked for no more BS. She said all the bad stuff was my fault and the truce would be on my shoulders only. I don't know why I expected anything differently.
Interesting conversation w/your wife. She's in a relationship, but she doesn't want you to be in one. Sounds to me like she wants to ensure that you are right where she left you...but unfortunately, that is not going to happen. How would the children be in danger?
I see she is still not looking within and blaming you for whatever the "bad stuff" is. Projection.
I am glad that you are still planning to take the children to see their grandparents. I'm sure they are already questioning everything she's doing...but she doesn't want them to know everything because she knows that they are watching her and most likely attempting to talk to her about it.
I'm glad Christmas was good otherwise. You sound like you've found your footing and know what you need to do. I hope that the rest of the holiday season will good for you and your children.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Your W and OM getting back together does not surprise me
Only time will tell which way her MLC takes her
On these boards we mostly see the MLC taking a dive into destruction and the years seem to bring them deeper down in the pits. I do think therapy might help someone choose better, even if they are not finished with the crises
she seems civil..yes still blaming and wanting to control you-
hopefully you and her can still find some co parenting partnership- and as time goes on everything else will hopefully fade as long as she can accept your choices- sure--she wants to see you alone and waiting
a bit egotistical of her to think you want her back-
another form of denial of reality im sure
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
W is still walking around in her tunnel, unable to see beyond its emotional walls.
From pride for OM, defending OM, mocking about “this is not what you want to hear”, telling you to be nice, crying, upset that you are in an R, to smug. Then on to worry about what her parents may or may not hear about.
Oh, she sounds like a teenager. The dumping the truce upon your shoulders and only your shoulders allows her to do whatever she wants and to blame you when she feels things went wrong or you broke the truce. Again, such an adolescent outlook. Not much inner growth shown yet. She is still baking.
Good for you taking the kids to see their Grandparents. And if that strains W’s relationship with her parents, so be it. Her actions and decisions have consequences, and the world is not here to make her fantasy a reality.
Originally Posted by Hamburg
She said it would strain her relationship with her parents if we go again. I informed her that is not the case and we are going later this week.
Most definitely keep your visit plans.
When speaking with W, instead of going head to head and trying to get her to see “that is not the case” just say “I’m sorry you feel that way”.
Let her feel right. Who cares. It’s her feelings, they are not permanent nor the truth. Right?
Let her be right. Oh, that one is tougher isn’t it. Ego. Remove your’s from the equation when dealing with her, with conflict. Right and wrong are dependent upon point of view. She will not admit nor be wrong in her mind. No point in fighting her on this. She needs to see her wrongness on her own.
And in actuality the upcoming visit probably will cause further strain between her and her parents. Still - I’m sorry you feel that way, but it is important for the children to see Grandma and Grandpa.
Enjoy the holiday season and the time with your children and GF. You’ve got a pretty wonderful life going on.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I recall Gordie's wife once being upset that he wasn't going to - physically - fight for her. She's trying to set up a triangle with you as one of the nodes. She obviously wants you to see OM as a competitor for her womanly charms so that she can pop popcorn and watch the drama. The fact that you have your own romantic interests are a threat to her centrality.
You are doing well in trying to keep it all business and not get sucked down her rabbit hole. It takes practice and not being in situations where you are obliged to engage with her.
Fortunately "crazy season" is almost over. Generally the ex-spouses go back down whatever rabbit hole they were in when things calm down.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Thanks everyone. Touch and goes prior to this were 2-3 days maximum. This one was almost a month long. When she talked of OM she began to name his faults so many of us pointed out up front, things she defended so strongly at first. It threw all of us for a loop. When we talked she was so clear about many things. I guess that's why a small part of me expected differently. She admits some fault, but cannot name specific examples. I owned up to things I did with examples and stated how I have changed. It was a way for me to get some closure. She has moved on in a "healthy and natural manner" and still throws some soft daggers my way that I ignore.
OM family was involved early on and helped them orchestrate secret meetings while we were married. They were all together for the holiday and it still burns me to this day. I have seen his family out a couple of times and W got mad when they told her I ignored them when they approached me. I am clueless as to why they would expect me to talk to them.
Yes, the crazy season has been over for a while. We have spoken more in the past few weeks than we have in the entire past year.I was going to send her a letter for closure but I feel like I said everything that needed to be said. I am glad the drama is over.....at least for now.
W is financially strained and the last property settlement payment was made. The first few months of the year will be tough and I expect another touch and go then, but will keep my guard up for that one.
Greetings everyone. Its been a while so time for an update.
D has been signed and finalized. Dust has settled and things have been calm.
Her R with OM fizzled slowly and is now over. She also lost her job around that time. We have talked a few times and I gave the typical "sorry for the tough times" . she did come onto me a bit and asked about my R, even asked if she could move in with me if needed. I said no. She surprisingly has not asked for financial help...yet, despite a mound of CC debt. She is attempting to reconnect with her family and I still get blamed for creating a wedge. Also, days after R was over she began dating a neighbor. She has done SOME work on herself but left a marriage into an R, then straight into another R. He is at least stable and seems to be a good guy, opposite of OM 1.
As for me, my R is going strong. Home life with the kids is going well and we are about to start summer. Hopefully we can take a vacation once things open back up.
Things I'm wondering
Why did she run to me when near rock bottom? It lasted about a week and then she put up another wall.
She seems to bounce right back into relationships and hasn't done much work on herself. Still blames others for her problems, unable to accept criticism or responsibility, etc... I don't understand why she just can't be alone. Is this R doomed?
Why did she run to me when near rock bottom? It lasted about a week and then she put up another wall.
Because they like to think the LBS is waiting there as Plan B when their great romance falls apart. Don't worry - if she had been GENUINE in seeing the error of her ways and wanting to reconcile, she would have tried a helluva lot harder than that. She was just looking for an easy handout.
Go about your life. She's nowhere near being able to look inside and grow from this experience.
It’s mice to hear from you. I’m glad to see you doing so well; a strong R, good family times with the kids. And a vacation is an excellent idea.
Like kml said, XW is no where near ready to grow from this, yet.
People in crisis, people who hit rock bottom, or close to it, run to home. Like a wounded animal they seek shelter in that which feels safe. Her old memories are still there, rattling around in her addled mind. Those lost and unrealized feelings of happy times and the pull towards them.
She can’t yet face that though. So after a week up comes another wall, and off she runs again.
Plan B. Intentional or not. The irrational draw and idea that the LBS is, and will be, still available.
Keep living your great life and leave her to her’s.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I continue with my R and it is going strong. Forming blended families is tough but also a blessing. Marriage is likely coming in the next year or so.Â
Ex W still seems to come and go with regards to MLC. Further job loss, mountain of debt, working 24/7 and the kids complain about the stuff they have to deal with on her time. R with affair OM ended a while back and now she is with a more stable person. Once in 2020, she played the victim, tried to seduce me and asked for money and help. After I declined, she quickly went back to the vindictive one. More recently, after ANOTHER job loss and an eviction, once again asked for money and help. No seduction this time but did start crying when she asked to move in with me and just be roommates with no romantic ties (obviously would end my R but not hers). She did mention suicidal thoughts and I think this was for attention and nothing real. I spoke with her for several hours on the phone and calmed her down. I offered some financial assistance but nowhere near the amount she was asking for. In the end, I did not provide any help. Then, wrote her a letter with the "gloves off" telling her things (personality traits) she needs to fix for the betterment of the kids. Since that time she has been very short and has not asked for any help.Â
She is in R for a couple of years now but still cannot stand me being in a stable R. She stated her R is not really that great and they live separate lives, are not close and there is no marriage or plans to do so. After her eviction, I asked why not move in with her R partner and it was not an option for some reason. She was supposed to move in with a family member, but that quickly fell through and now has another rental home--too small for a family of 3. I recently saw her for the first time in about a year, and she looks awful. Stressed, hair not done, no makeup, still nagging the kids about trivial stuff etc... I don't intend to sound mean, but this is a person who would spend 3 hours getting ready for the grocery store. It saddens me.
What worries me (and why I feel guilty) is that I know when she is stressed, the kids are feeling the brunt of it. I do not know of any way I can possibly help but know she is in turmoil, and thus the kids are too. However, she is making no attempts to reduce that stress so it is self inflicted. I know the formula: during her time of duress she spills her guts, wants to know info about me and my situation and is very nice. At all other times, she is short and not interested in anything about my life. I've kept my personal life very private from her but certain the kids are spilling information about it. They frequently ask my GF to be their mom (I discourage this) and tend to cling to females who are not as controlling or demanding as their mom. I am happy and feel confident in my current R, but feel devastated that the kids have to deal with their mother and her drama and turmoil. I wish there were a quick fix to things but alas just keep waiting for things to normalize for them.Â
It’s good to hear from you. Really good to see your relationship is going great. And perhaps wedding bells in a year or two; how wonderful.
Things definitely sound less great for XW. She is still struggling and finding her way.
Originally Posted by Hamburg
What worries me (and why I feel guilty) is that I know when she is stressed, the kids are feeling the brunt of it. I do not know of any way I can possibly help but know she is in turmoil, and thus the kids are too.
Why are you feeling guilty? Something to look into.
You cannot control XW or the kids. You can influence; especially your kids. Gentle steering.
I’m not sure of your kids’ ages, I’m placing them at teenagers by now. At any rate, you can be open to discussing with them, their feelings and absorbing the brunt of Mom’s stress. Pass on some strategies to them for how handle, and not take on, such stress. All age appropriate of course.
Originally Posted by Hamburg
They frequently ask my GF to be their mom (I discourage this) and tend to cling to females who are not as controlling or demanding as their mom.
Seeking a female role model from a more stable and less stress inducing woman is perfectly normal.
I am inferring that when the kids are asking GF to “be their Mom”, they are looking to a possible marriage of you two. GF is nurturing to them, I’d suppose. I’d not discourage (or dismiss) their feelings, nor encourage “new” Mom either; more be who you and GF are, and let the kids express themselves as they will. (You sound kind of blessed with this, as some kids resent a new parental figure entering the picture.)
Originally Posted by Hamburg
I am happy and feel confident in my current R, but feel devastated that the kids have to deal with their mother and her drama and turmoil.
Uncouple these!
You have an irrational tie here, and in my opinion is a factor, or source thereof, in your feelings of guilt.
Be happy and confident in your current relationship. And how it encompasses your kids in this family unit. What you can control - keep your drama and turmoil minimized on your side of the street.
Separate item: The kids have to deal with their Mom and her drama and turmoil regardless of what you do, or do not do. You do not control nor create XW’s stress; you are not that powerful. She creates her own stress. (Same message for the kids as well. I’d guess at times they feel responsible for Mom’s stress and actions and reactions. Control - a good lesson to learn at whatever age.)
Definitely uncouple your feeling of devastated from all this.
Feelings are fleeting, extinguishing after the event or trigger that prompted them is removed, and remain long lasting only when we are reinforcing them. That reinforcement lives within the realm of beliefs and convictions. Think of love, and how it is more a belief than some squishy butterfly in your belly that flits away.
Devastation and guilty - you are reinforcing these within yourself. Seek out how and what. Not why. Not yet. See how and what you are doing. It is an irrational binding you need to sever. Some action, event, or thought inspires and reinforces these feelings. Find it. Then you can alter the chain of reinforcement, and craft a new and better one.
Along that path of uncoupling and crafting you’ll find understanding and the “why” of all of it. This is the landscape of the non rational, and counterintuitive. If you start digging and looking for why you get off track rather quickly. Best to start with how and what. (I wrote plenty of past posts on rationalizing these ties and the uncoupling of them. Not sure if you recall or not. We can discuss more if you like.)
Originally Posted by Hamburg
I wish there were a quick fix to things but alas just keep waiting for things to normalize for them.
Yes, there is no quick fix. The “quick” path is the one that has enduring healing. The example of role model and being a strong stable parent, is being observed and will be emulated. It does take some time.
Have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
