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OwnIt #2876880 12/19/19 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by OwnIt
My personal feeling is that they have to leave to live that exciting life we are keeping them from so they can process what they are doing and stand to lose.


This is how I've felt too, OwnIt. Thanks for your support here.

My H is running as fast as he can toward this new life; from my standpoint, it seems like he's trying to outrun his hurt, anger, and unhappiness.

I don't think there's any stopping him or slowing him down at this point. He let me know he's been to workshops on how to D and I know he's started filling out the paperwork. I think he's waiting until after January 1 because he signed up for legal insurance through his job, and it doesn't go into effect until then. He said he thinks we can save money and work out an agreement on our own, but then when I tried to communicate with him about said agreement, he agreed to talk and then, when the time came, started yelling about how he doesn't have time for this with his new life and new friends.

I'm not sure how he thinks we'll work out an agreement ourselves if he doesn't want to talk about it. I think what he really wants is to not have to do any of the work the D will require and have everything be over and done with.

I think this legal insurance he'll have will cover mediation, which is what I'd like to do. I think it'll be necessary to have that third party, because I can see him getting angry if I try to ask for anything he doesn't think is fair, since he's all about no one asking anything of him right now. The main issue might be our house, which we rent. I'm assuming he'll be leaving, but I'm not sure what he's assuming. I'm feeling very vulnerable right now, because I'm going to have to depend on whatever the alimony is until I can get a higher paying job, which I really hope will be soon.

Can anyone give me advice on where I go from here as far as communicating with him about his plans/whatever he's imagining an agreement will be? Do I just wait until he actually files and then bring up mediation again? In our no-fault state, if I don't contest the filing, it's automatically finalized six months from the date of service.


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If it does not harm you to do so, let him do it. His divorce, let him own it. I have first-hand experience in not being able to push a person where they are unwilling to go.

Unlikely this legal insurance will cover much. Mediation is a voluntary process. There is no harm in going and see what you can resolve. Before you do, take some free consultations with divorce lawyers (ones who only handle domestic issues), get an idea of what the issues are in your case and how the court is likely to resolve matters. Find one you like. Have them attend the mediation or be on standby or review anything before you sign it or agree to it.

Take it one step at a time. Don't do anything that you believe to be wrong or not in your best interest. Don't try to be nice in the hopes it will bring him back. It doesn't work and you don't want to harm yourself.

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Own gave good advice, and I was thinking the same

get a few free consulations with a good Divorce attorney..
MY friend recommended me hers, and he was lifesaving
after the consulktation, you can either stay with that attorney, or choose another-
they will also discuss their cost, if you should choose them

The free consultation will pave a clear path...
what you will get
what is yours...what will be his
how much alimony and child support

The attorney really knows the whole deal..its their specialty and in one hour of free advice
you will know everything
it was empowering for me-

The MLCer will want to split things on their own with little help from an attorney
Make it clear that you wont do that when the time comes.


married 14 years
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Cardinal,

Do not agree to anything w/your runaway h concerning a divorce or splitting up of the assets. As OwnIt and Peace have pointed out, get some good, solid legal advice for a lawyer. Now is the time to start looking around for one that may have a free consultation. If not, pay the for the first hour and trust me, it will be well worth the money to find out what you are entitled to. Once you know what you are entitled to, do not share that info w/your h. This is you ace in pocket that you need to keep to yourself for now.

Sure, he's going to want to do things w/o having a lawyer involved and they all think that we can come to a civil agreement...one that is all for them and little left for us. Just a word of caution, once he realizes that you know the drill and have a good handle or what you are entitled to and you stand your ground, he may very well become angry and nasty. If he does, walk away, do not attempt to reason w/him. He's got to learn he can't have everything his way and he's the reason that a divorce is taking place.

Knowledge is power. Gather as much information as you can so that you know your rights. Stand tall, hold your head up high and be ready for anything at this point.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2876997 12/20/19 08:32 PM
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Thank you so much, Job, OwnIt, and Peace for offering your thoughts. I don't think I would be afraid of negotiating with my "old" H, but now that he's rebelling against the nice guy persona he's apparently lived with his whole life, every decision is driven by this rebellion and a great sense of entitlement, whether rational or not. I'm still not used to this side of him, I guess.

Months ago I did have a consult with a lawyer who also does mediation, and she thought my staying in the house was totally reasonable and even suggested I might want to ask him to leave at some point, if he did or didn't follow through with D. Since we have no major assets or debts (though I have no idea how much his own credit card is running these days), she said it would be a simple D and process. I'm now feeling like I have more questions than I did then, so I'll look into doing a consult with another lawyer or two after the holidays. I do need to feel strong and confident that I know as much as he does about this stuff.

Originally Posted by job
Cardinal,
Just a word of caution, once he realizes that you know the drill and have a good handle or what you are entitled to and you stand your ground, he may very well become angry and nasty. If he does, walk away, do not attempt to reason w/him. He's got to learn he can't have everything his way and he's the reason that a divorce is taking place.


I'm kind of assuming he'll have this reaction, and I need to work on preparing for it. This also has to do with setting boundaries, another thing I'm learning to be better at.

For example, if I say:

"I understand you would like to try to work out an agreement ourselves. But I don't want you to feel like I'm the only one calling the shots, and I don't want to feel like you are, either. I want us both to be able to express our needs, and I would like to try developing this agreement through mediation."

If he would start yelling about how I'm trying to control his life, it would be best not only to stay calm but to exit the situation. I would want to listen and validate but also set a boundary. Something like this?

"I'm sorry you feel that way. I want to really hear you, but it's hard for me to do that when you yell. Maybe we should take a break and try talking more later."

I'm struggling with trying to plan how to respond, because I think he'll
A) resent the fact that I'm being calm while he's yelling and insist he's not yelling (which is something that has happened before in past arguments pre-BD)
B) Get more angry and accuse me of trying to control him/situation & say he doesn't have time to talk later

and I don't want to fall into my old mode of defensiveness and trying to explain/reason with him. I want him to fight with himself if he has to, but I will not participate.


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Cardinal,

I am going to suggest one thing that you need to do...do a credit history report on the two of you. You need to know just what type of expenses on the credit cards and any loans he may have taken that you aren't aware of.

If you do sit down w/him, listen, validate and then tell him you need time to think about what he's proposing and that you will get back to him. Take the data to your lawyer and have him/her look it over. If he gets nasty, just say "I am sorry you feel that way and when you calm down and want to talk further, just let me know" then walk away. You do not need to defend yourself or continue the argument.

You have a good handle on what to do.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2877087 12/21/19 09:41 PM
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Thank you, Job. I'm thinking I'll wait until he actually files and I am served, because I don't really think he's going to sit down and talk with me about his "offer" or working out an agreement beforehand, and then I'll take the papers to a consult with a lawyer. If he does approach me about working out an agreement before he files, then I'll reassess my approach. It's the waiting and uncertainty that's the worst--as I write that, I realize I shouldn't be "waiting; I'm GAL, but I still feel that next step in the D hovering over me, when it will be officially happening.

It's helpful to remember at any time I can say I'll get back to him. Whatever it is, I don't have to engage with him in the moment if I don't want to.

I find I'm very cool and detached during the week for the most part. I barely see him since he's out late pretty much every night after work, and it's easy to focus on myself. The weekends are harder because he's sometimes around doing laundry. He keeps to his room. He hasn't really tried to make light conversation with me for several weeks now, since just before Thanksgiving and the D talk, since his "I have a new life!" outburst. My goal is always to not let his presence affect how I feel in the house, though I do miss how, a couple of months ago, he might have volunteered a few minutes of conversation. Even though I know it's not helpful, I sometimes tend to think, Is it something I did? Is there something I should be doing now?

Last night I was surprised to find him home eating leftover soup he'd made himself Sunday. I said, "Oh, hey!" in a light, cheerful way, and went about greeting the cats. He did his dishes and was gone until midnight or so. He slept in and was going for a run this morning as I left for work. It seems every time he does something I'd consider normal, like running, I start to think, Does X cancel out all the other weird, alien-H stuff? Does this mean he's not having an MLC? But I guess there can be both uncharacteristic behavior AND a intermittent glimpses of normality at the same time.


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Haven’t dreamed about my H in a while, and dreamed he was even colder to me than he already is. What are your go-to threads or mantras to regain perspective/PMA when you’re momentarily stuck on the negative things your spouse has said about your R/you? In my case, the latest ones don’t seem as bad as they could be, which somehow makes their echo more frustrating (I can’t be the kind of happy I want in this R, I don’t know if I could fall in love with you again).


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Hi

Its hard in the beginning
You can create new mantras or a new go to thread....
This will take practice on your part

Something like:
H is in crises..
This is not about me..I cant fix this
while its sad and very painful, I will take care of myself
I will get through this..I am getting stronger day by day
I can set boundaries and create healthy patterns for me
I can still enjoy my life today..I am healing

think about what mantras feel good for you
therapy is so important now for you

I listen to a lot of U tube videos everyday

Positive speakers give free uplifting messages
churches, pastors, motivational speakers, therapists, coaches ect..
there are tons

Also:
You will see normal behavior mixed in
they sometimes may even be extra nice
they have touch and goes..where they come to reality

The thing is they are in a crises..most likely caused by unresolved childhood trauma
unless they are in therapy and even then, they only see the fantasy life as the way out of their pain
They cant understand that they may nede to resolve their pain in a healthy way
they are in DENIAL and cant be reached

You are doing good and as you continue to find support...you will get clearer and stronger

keep in mind:
Most LBS wind up landing on their feet.
Most of us here create a better life with or without them

This is a gift...for you to grow to go inward to resolve your issues and become who you want to be
The pain and the grief fades in time and we can create new either with our current spouse or ..
and if you ask anyone here,,, they will tell you years later how it all worked out..

hang in


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Originally Posted by peacetoday

Its hard in the beginning
You can create new mantras or a new go to thread....
This will take practice on your part


Thank you for your response, peace. I’ve saved bits of other threads that have been helpful in the past and will try to return to them when I need a boost. I think, “It’s not about me and I can’t fix him” is one I need to keep repeating. Also: no expectations.

H left Saturday evening with his dirty laundry and came back at 6 am this morning with clean laundry, then left for work. Honestly, it’s easier for me to relax here when he’s gone, but then there’s the annoying question fluttering in the back of my mind: When will he be back? I fantasized about changing the locks, so that he could more easily live his new life with the friends who appreciate him so much! I think it’s getting to me because, you know, it’s Christmas. We’d normally be leaving on a trip together to go see our families, but he let me know during the D convo a few weeks ago he told his mom he’s not coming this year. I’m a little unsettled about leaving him here in the house with the pets he’s been ignoring.

I assume, if he is here when I leave, he’ll be sleeping. Too much to leave a note that says, “Merry Christmas”?


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