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Curtis,

I've been wondering how you have been getting on.. I read your posts just shaking my head in disbelief...

Nothing to add to what others have said already. You really don't grasp anything that people say. You say you do, but always revert back to pressure and control.

Best of luck.. I hope you manage to sort your life out in 2020, and not just go over the same old ground like you have for the course of 2019.


Previous username - Helpme123.. A name chosen at a desperate time..

Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
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The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Quote of the day. Thought without action is like a car without a transmission. The engine sounds good when you rev it. But the vehicle doesn't go anywhere.

Wow Curtis! I thought I was long winded! Alright. Im going to high five you on changing for the better. Working on communication, being patient, having a huge amount of compassion, being a better version of yourself, etc. You have some serious milestones you have achieved and I congratulate you. (I've barely started on my own inner self work this last year, but have come to a lot of realizations so in a way its healthy. But requires a lot more action on my part.)

We want them to change course, we want them to choose us and the life we idealized of them and with them, we want them to make the right choices. Our right isn't their right, our perception isn't their, And we are not them!!! The sooner you step out of your own views, and try and wrap your head around there's a little while giving them silence and space, the more compassion and understanding you will have for them, the more you see their errors but more importantly the more you see your own and make those changes on them that's just my realization. I get it. A part of me gets it why you are still holding onto hope.

Back to my 2x4. Ill put it plainly. Your words are incongruent with your actions. Here is what most of us are hearing from you in the last year...
"I'm going to end the Marriage if you don't stop cheating.... Wait wait.... I can be better... We can be better if you stop cheating and come to your senses...We can be a family...I've changed...Did you change your mind yet? How about now? I'm filing for divorce if you don't come back to me. I think we could be great together... Let's try counciling... Lets go away to Retroville. If you don't stop cheating, I'm going to file..."  You get the picture.... You keep beating (no pun but absolutely pun intended.) The same dead horse over and over and over for a solid year. You need to be b*th slapped like bugs bunny does with his white glove to his nemesis. Curtis. I feel you I do. We all do. We all hurt. We all want things to be better, our R's to be better, out sich's to be better. But the fact is no one person should be the center of our lives without their commitment and their actions displaying such. P-E-R-I-O-D. It's not worth your self respect, your worth, and your sanity. (Even though we temporarily lie to ourselves every day that eventually they are coming back.)

Im not saying file, Im not saying give anymore ultimatums. Here is a task for you that Im trying to implement in my own life all around it. My problem is my mouth, and how wordy I am to get my point across.

Make it your goal to use as little words as possible. Less is more. Convey all of your intentions through actions.  Sometimes silence is action. Your worth is in your silence and your actions  believe it or not. How much impact do you think you will have consistently in your silence, give them the gift of silence and give them the gift of missing you. You are worth every bit of it my friend, and they are worth every bit of that treatment until they earn your respect back with actions. Talk is cheap.

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Curtis,

I did not go back and read all of your posts, but I did read your recent updates. It was hard to read. I am not sure what I can tell you that these guys have not already said. Is there something different I can offer you? Perhaps you think I did something that made my H come back? I don't think I did. There were many circumstances that led to his return and I didn't do anything to make him. He chose to.

As I see it, you do not follow the DB principals and you continue to search for and hang on to any bit of hope (what you perceive to be hopeful) that you can find. I can't see in your updates where she is showing you any desire to R with you. Can you tell me what she says and does that lead you to think that? Because what I see is that she is afraid of your reactions and of how difficult a D will be with you. Unfortunately that does not translate into her being confused about wanting to be with you. She is saying and acting in ways that prove she does not.

What I am reading is that your actions are cycling between pursuit and pressure. Your words however are conflicting with that and you are waffling between, 1. the same pursuit and pressure, or 2. that you are okay with her walking away, but you just want to know some truth that she is withholding, and then you will be detached and resolved when she tells you said truth. .... I cannot imagine how confusing this must be for her. You are giving her mixed messages and basically trying to control her. I don't think she is hiding any truth from you. She is wanting to move on from you and you are not letting her and she feels guilty about that. Again, that does not mean that she wants to be with you right now.

Although, I am sorry to tell you what you don't want to hear, and that is that I don't think she is really giving you mixed messages. She is showing you and telling you she is done and wants to move on. Please do not confuse her ambivalence with the process to mean that she wants to be with you. If she wants to be with you, you will just know without questions. It's that simple. When she wants to be with you and R, SHE will be the one pursuing you and trying to get YOU back!

I am not sure how to advise you because I see that others are doing that and you are not ready to hear it. All you can do is take a beginners mind set and start over. Drop the rope, go dark, accept that she doesn't want to be with you, and then you focus on you. You don't have to tell her anything, take actions or file. The first priority should be looking inward and letting go of a very unhealthy need you have to be with her and to control this situation. It's going to take a long time I am afraid. Why not just accept that discomfort and loss and start there?

Blu


“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
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Remember when you were so persistent in giving her the Robx speech? It was not effective due to several reasons.....one being that your timing was off. In other words, if you had given her the speech fairly early in the sitch, and actually stuck by it........it would have carried more weight. The end result however, was the same action you've insisted upon using throughout the sitch, which was emotional pressure/pursuit.

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I had been reading another book about affairs and an approach is described that lays out Plan A (ask W to end A) and Plan B (go NC if chooses to continue the A’s). I felt it was appropriate to ask WW to end her A’s, clearly state my requirements for R, and allow her to make the choice.


So now you've discovered MB, and you like the way they lay out Plan A & B. What do you see in the above statement that is so different from the advice you were receiving from the DB vets? How many times have you told her how you felt, and what you wanted......and that she would have to end things with OM, b/c you would not compete with them? I've got news for you, if you can't follow DB, I doubt you'll follow the instructions in the other book/forum. You can't follow that author's instructions, b/c you can't go NC with your WW. You can't detach, and you can't leave her alone.

The pressure, guilt, and shame you put on her is incredible. You know what it tells her? It tells her that you are controlling. You can't even show her how you've changed (b/c you haven't changed), but yet......you expect her to trust that you will be a better H if she'll just give up her affairs and commit to the MR? Why? You don't even know how to meet her emotional needs.

So then, you send her an email, which IMHO, lacked something. Maybe b/c you have already said this stuff, in one way or another. How was this different from the other talks? I don't think it was. You labeled it Plan A, and basically, said the same stuff again.

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This was my version of earning my way out of the MR. My thought process behind taking this action was to remove ambiguity from what it will take to R with me, let W know that we can move beyond the betrayal, and work together to build a new MR that is better for both of us. My intent was not to offer a long period of time for her to make the choice. However, during that time she would experience the best version of me when we did interact.


No offense intended, but ignoring our advice and continuing the pressured R talks and trying to cause her to feel guilt/shame.....has pretty much earned your way out of MR. Why continue doing what hasn't worked? Your thought process hasn't changed. You may label it differently, but at the end of the day......you are still trying to talk her back. If she had asked what it would take for her to reconcile with you, then it would have been fine to expound on the subject. Let me tell you something about the thought process of a WW. The more you press her, the more disgust she feels toward you. You are making a lot of claims, when she is not even interested in going around a second time with you. I mean, the words sound nice, but I don't think you really know what kind of work is in store for either of you, in order to have a fulfilled MR. You just want to win her back, and if one tactic doesn't do the job, you look for another one, and add your own version. All you've shown her is more of the same controlling man, and that cancels all your flowery promises about a future relationship. Like some other LBH's, you have not done the work on yourself, but you want her to trust you to be a better H after she gives up her affairs, etc. What I see happening, is you emotionally wearing her down. That's how some guys work. However, it doesn't cause her to feel desire for him. She may give up, under relentless pressure, and she may go back home.......but IMHO, you are giving her more reason to feel disgust and resentment toward you. You have to stop with these type of talks, and emotional pressure.

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After a short time, I planned to ask for her decision. If she still doesn’t know, then I planned to ask what she wants in the settlement.


You've already given her a list showing divided assets, when you gave the Robx speech. It didn't create the desired results you were hoping to get, so on another occasion, you asked her what she thought about the list........ and you went into another R talk. If you ask her what she wants in the settlement, she's going to give you her default answer........"I don't know". So, what's the next step forward?

Well, you couldn't wait, so you had another R talk the day before Thanksgiving. That really was a short period of time!

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W: “They are not affairs, we are separated. You haven’t let me be separated this whole time. Are you going to keep looking for stuff if we divorce?”


She's right about one thing.......you have not let her be separated this whole time.

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H: “I don’t need to look. (Really?) I had hoped that you ended your affairs. Once I knew that wasn’t the case, I decided that I’m done. Go ahead and don’t call them affairs, but most women move out so they can sleep with OM without interference from their H. I don’t want this separation anymore. I wanted my W and family back. Can you appreciate that? Is that wrong to want my W and family? I feel that you have an addiction and can’t see through the affair fog. It keeps drawing you back. Once you’ve gone NC, I’ve read that it takes 3-4 weeks for the strongest feelings to subside during withdrawal and almost all feelings are gone in 6 months. Every time contact is re-established the clock resets. Do you want to end contact? Have you tried to stop and suffered relapses? Do you need help, I have no problem stepping in and protecting our family.”


Wow! You just kept hammering.

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W: “This is about you keeping up your image with me.”
H: “I make no apologies for trying to save and protect my family. I want you, it’s everything about you, not just the sex like it is for your OM. I want our marriage to last, but if you’ve decided that they can make you happier than I can, it’s time for me to step aside. It comes down to a choice. If you won’t choose to end your affairs, then I can no longer remain married to you. So, what do you want?”


I think your WW may have a good point. I tend to agree with her, after months of reading your posts and seeing your stubbornness to follow advice. I think these affairs have hurt your male ego a lot. I'm sure it would hurt anyone to know their spouse has had an affair. But when she referred to your image, it had a truthful ring. As I previously said, you want to win her back from these OM. Although you told her you couldn't or wouldn't compete with OM, that's exactly what you are doing! If they dumped her and she went crawling back to you......I'd bet you would not be near as interested as when you are challenged.

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H: “This is the biggest decision you’ll have to make for the rest of your life. It is bigger than the two of us. I’ve weighed that out and chosen you. I’m afraid that you are about to make the 2 biggest mistakes of your life. The first when you decide to end our marriage and the second 6 months later when the affair ends and the fantasy wears off.”


I don't know that she is in a particular fantasy, since she's been through three men the past months. I think she is searching for something she hasn't felt in a long time.......maybe never, IDK. You sound close to bullying her. The statement above is your opinion and how you feel. It's not what she thinks & feel. It's on the verge of sounding arrogant. I realize you are trying to reach through her fog, but whenever it becomes pressure.......you lose her. I don't know what it will take for you to finally see. You've been so hellbent on telling her everything you read about WW's, that you've missed getting it yourself.

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W: “I know it’s my choice, but you are going to control me all over again just like you are now by trying to force a decision.”

[Again I sensed all she wants is to continue the cake eating and string me along.]


If it wasn't for the detailed conversations you've shared, I would be inclined to agree.....simply b/c WW's take advantage wherever they can. I have said the reason she hasn't initiated the divorce is b/c she is benefiting from being Mrs. Curtis. After reading this conversation, I think it's b/c she doesn't want to lose the home/ranch. I also believe you know it, and that's the reason you have not sent the horse away. It's your bait. I'm not saying she doesn't do her share of cake eating.....but I don't buy your excuse of loving animals is the reason you didn't let the horses go. You knew what you were doing.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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First of all, I appreciate all of the responses on the board. It does give me a lot to think about and apply to my sitch. I have been fortunate to receive tremendous input from so many people that care about me and want to see me reach a better place.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Curtis, her perception is that the marriage is over, and her perception is her reality. So why are you trying to argue and negotiate the terms of the marriage with her when she's already made it crystal clear to you that it's over? If you get fired from your job do you go back to your ex-boss the next day to discuss a pay raise and fewer working hours?
AS, point taken. I’ve had a tendency to get sucked into these R talks on an almost monthly basis. About halfway through the talk in October and again on Thanksgiving, I realized she doesn’t feel we are married and therefore she has no remorse for her choices. These talks ensued upon me trying to push forward with movement towards some type of decision or D. She has made it crystal clear; however, W is not cooperating on this front, she remains ambivalent.

Originally Posted by LH19
The fact she said you haven’t let her be separated the whole times speaks volumes Curtis. You’re trying to control her.
LH, this is the same rhetoric she has used all along for me discovering and/or attempting to interfere with her A’s. Forgive me for trying to control my W to not cheat on me. What happened to believe nothing WW say? Yes, she was forced into a defensive posture and reverted to her standard response when outed once again. Yes, I tried to maintain some level of control throughout all of this. I haven’t completely let her go for long periods of time, only in spurts. I didn’t stop her from buying a house and moving out. I didn’t expose her A’s. I didn’t cutoff access to her horse. I haven’t filed for D. Those all would have been more extreme versions of control IMO.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Still serving cake to your own detriment, still having R talks, trying tactics and pressure, and talking about moving on instead of moving on.

Your W is telling you everything you need to know and you're clinging hardcore. She has no respect for you.

Are you in IC?
I am not in IC. W went to IC last week. I have not inquired how it went.

I am trying to move on. She did nothing with the asset list. She balked at the D settlement discussion. I feel controlled to some extent.

I wish she would come to me and initiate dates. Maybe that’s just not in her nature, so I have tried to lead on occasion and show her what’s good about us, our MR, and our family. I see this as a very lengthy process if she is to be attracted back. Although, what is more likely to happen is that I become overly frustrated by her lack of effort and push forward with leading the D.

Originally Posted by jac12
I saw a lot of pressure there on your part. I know what it's like to feel like you need to say a lot of things and get things out but I'm not sure it's ever helped in my situation and it doens't seem like the conversation helped in yours either.

If you are ready to move on then just move on. Contact your L and do what you need to do. You don't need to tell her. Actions over words.

One thing I seem to see a lot: If you pressure the WW or WAS to make a decision she's often going to make the one you don't want. And as the vets say, she is going on her FEELINGS at the MOMENT...they are subject to change but they wont' change if you don't give space and focus on yourself.
Jac, hard to say what effect those conversations have on WW. She may be sensing that her time is running out as I’ve dropped hints that I’m walking away since each one inches closer to D. An uncontested D may be preferred which I’ve been attempting to pursue. She may make the decision I don’t want, but after over a year of knowingly being cheated on, many reach a point where they just want a decision...any decision. I’m a bit frustrated here as I’ve reached out to my L a few weeks ago and am awaiting a draft settlement to present to my W. Must be a busy time of year for L’s. W may very well take no action until I file on my own.

Originally Posted by JoeJoe1
Well, I see you are in the same spot doing the same things. Insanity!
JoeJoe, I don’t completely agree. I am preparing myself to move forward. I am not sitting idly by. Sure, I would be open to R and am still trying to find what may help my sitch. W knows that my patience is wearing thin. She has changed as well. She is spending more time with me and the kids together. She has resumed some activities that were shared pre-BD. Has she shown much indication of wanting to come home? Not much. Has she shown any desire for me? Hardly. Still, I hold on to some hope. I question whether she has doubts of staying away for good and if she has thoughts of ending her A’s. If so, then it’s possible her recent contacts and meetings with the OM could be lapses or relapses and not total collapses. I’ve read that these are to be expected when breaking the addiction of infidelity.

Originally Posted by scout12
Everyone else has said what I am thinking already but my main question is: why are you still snooping her messages? She is obviously upset and agitated and knows you are snooping somehow but hasn't caught onto your method. This is an invasion of privacy and a control tactic. Change the passwords, remove access to her accounts or devices, whatever it takes to do the right thing because you obviously can't control yourself. You know this is wrong and it's only hurting you and hurting your chances of genuine reconciliation. Please just stop.
I’ve stopped. W asked me stop 3 weeks ago and I have. For a long time I would see or sense things were improving where I thought she may have ended it with the OM. Time and time again my hopes were dashed when I found out she went back to them. Gathering intel isn’t necessarily wrong depending on the circumstances (i.e. confirming A or NC). It can be helpful at times to find out whether what you are doing works. However, there comes a point where it’s better for my own mental state to stop and just assume that the affairs are continuing until she proves otherwise.

Originally Posted by MrBrside
Nothing to add to what others have said already. You really don't grasp anything that people say. You say you do, but always revert back to pressure and control.

Best of luck.. I hope you manage to sort your life out in 2020, and not just go over the same old ground like you have for the course of 2019.
Mr Brightside, what can I say, I still love the woman. She turns me on. When I have a choice to be around her or enjoy some event with her, I cherish those moments. I don’t know how many I have left with her, so I’m going to enjoy them when I have the opportunity.

I became stronger in 2019, in 2020 I will be happier. W knows that time is running out. This stems from what I have grasped from people here. She sees my 180s and knows what she stands to lose. I have not given her the sense of loss that has caused her to hit rock bottom and end her A’s. Maybe I’m not strong enough to do that. I certainly have lost a ton of respect for her and almost all trust. I can see where avoiding pressure and R talks are advised early in sitches. However, when things cool off and settle down and communication becomes less adversarial, I feel there comes a time to push the envelope. I don’t want to live in a perpetual state of limbo indefinitely.

Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Make it your goal to use as little words as possible. Less is more. Convey all of your intentions through actions.  Sometimes silence is action. Your worth is in your silence and your actions  believe it or not. How much impact do you think you will have consistently in your silence, give them the gift of silence and give them the gift of missing you. You are worth every bit of it my friend, and they are worth every bit of that treatment until they earn your respect back with actions. Talk is cheap.
IHC, great advice. I’m trying to implement less is more in text responses and verbal interaction over the past few weeks. She initiates almost all texts and I don’t respond to several especially if unrelated to the kids.

Originally Posted by BluWave
I am not sure what I can tell you that these guys have not already said. Is there something different I can offer you? Perhaps you think I did something that made my H come back? I don't think I did. There were many circumstances that led to his return and I didn't do anything to make him. He chose to.

I can't see in your updates where she is showing you any desire to R with you. Can you tell me what she says and does that lead you to think that? Because what I see is that she is afraid of your reactions and of how difficult a D will be with you. Unfortunately that does not translate into her being confused about wanting to be with you. She is saying and acting in ways that prove she does not.

When she wants to be with you and R, SHE will be the one pursuing you and trying to get YOU back!
Hi Blu, I don’t know there is anything specific you can offer that is different from what others have perceived. I agree that if my W comes back, I hope it is because it was a choice she made and not something I forced upon her. You’re right that she hasn’t shown any real desire to R with me. I really don’t see her pursuing me anytime soon. W and I have spent more time together in the past couple months. That doesn’t mean she wants to (perhaps it’s just related to the holiday spirit between Halloween and New Year’s). W does not initiate, but has accepted more of my invites. This perturbs me, I feel like all of the effort and energy being put into this MR has been one-sided. This is so mentally draining when it’s all give and no receive.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Originally Posted by Sandi2
You can't follow that author's instructions, b/c you can't go NC with your WW. You can't detach, and you can't leave her alone.
Plan A doesn’t involve NC, which is probably why it’s better suited for me, b/c you’re right, I struggle immensely with NC. Especially when my WW has been more receptive and open to being in my presence over the past few months. I’m sure as you know Plan B is absolute NC.

Originally Posted by Sandi2
So then, you send her an email, which IMHO, lacked something. Maybe b/c you have already said this stuff, in one way or another. How was this different from the other talks? I don't think it was. You labeled it Plan A, and basically, said the same stuff again.
I never shared with her exactly what I would need (NC with APs and honest) in a new MR succinctly. I also never presented a loving view of what it would be like to R where she wouldn’t be shamed and judged as we worked towards forgiveness while rebuilding trust.

Originally Posted by Sandi2
You just want to win her back, and if one tactic doesn't do the job, you look for another one, and add your own version. All you've shown her is more of the same controlling man, and that cancels all your flowery promises about a future relationship. Like some other LBH's, you have not done the work on yourself, but you want her to trust you to be a better H after she gives up her affairs, etc.
I wholly disagree. I have done a tremendous amount of work on myself. I have made enormous strides in being a better husband, father, listener, communicator, and leader. I am grateful, less selfish, more generous, more compassionate. I am able to sense the feelings of others. I am AMOAFWL. Yes, I do want her to trust me to be a better H once she gives up the A’s. WW is a year behind me in doing the work. Can I trust her to come along and be a better W working with me to build a MR that never falls into this level of despair again?

Originally Posted by Sandi2
You've already given her a list showing divided assets, when you gave the Robx speech. It didn't create the desired results you were hoping to get, so on another occasion, you asked her what she thought about the list........ and you went into another R talk. If you ask her what she wants in the settlement, she's going to give you her default answer........"I don't know". So, what's the next step forward?

Well, you couldn't wait, so you had another R talk the day before Thanksgiving. That really was a short period of time!
The next step forward is to present the draft settlement.

Let’s review the timeline:
May 4th: I give her the PuppyDogTails I will not live in an open MR speech late night at her place with no boundary to enforce. This was after S8 told me WW was texting OM3 all day and ignoring him and she was about to send me an email to divide assets.

September 27-29: W says she loves me at Retrouvaille but refuses to end contact with OM.

October 23rd: I give her the RobX speech and asset list after she clearly has little interest in keeping up with the Retrouvaille follow-up work.

November 9th: I’m ready to get on with it and ask if she has the asset list ready after I learn she was arranging a hookup with OM2. R talk occurs and she brings up the idea of dating me while the A’s continue.

November 12th: I send her the Plan A email after she spends the night at OM3’s.

November 28th: Thanksgiving R talk after she sends nude selfies to OM the night before. I ask if she’s ready to come with me and rebuild as stated in the email. I put D fully on the table as the lies continue.

As you can see, my actions and talks have been highly reactionary when I discovered something or my tolerance of bad behavior built up over a period of time.

I feel that I have been in Plan A for a good portion of the past year. So, I wouldn’t say it was a short amount of time. She has been able to see how I’m a much better H in so many ways.

Neffer posted “It’s Enough” on my thread before I gave her the RobX speech. That phrase hit home with me after all of the BS. Also, some very pointed posts from you, JoeJoe, LH, and others in recent months have helped restore my confidence, help me believe that I have value, deserve respect, and can stand up to my WW to share my feelings, wants, needs, and call her out on crap behavior.

Originally Posted by Sandi2
I think these affairs have hurt your male ego a lot. I'm sure it would hurt anyone to know their spouse has had an affair.
You’re probably right. I am very competitive by nature. I often asked myself what do the OM give her that I wasn’t able to. It hurt badly for a long time. I do realize these are affair downs and she will be the one that will hurt more in the long run if we don’t R and she realizes the cruel way she chose to end our MR and destroy our family.

Originally Posted by Sandi2
I realize you are trying to reach through her fog, but whenever it becomes pressure.......you lose her. I don't know what it will take for you to finally see. You've been so hellbent on telling her everything you read about WW's, that you've missed getting it yourself.
I am shining a light back on the MR and trying to reach through the fog and help her see. I know the lighthouse doesn’t go out to sea to pull a WW in. I just feel that she has not done any work to understand why she is making these choices. So, yes I am attempting to give her insight and the resources she needs to find her way. I think it behooves me to provide this to her. Perhaps one day she will listen to the audiobooks on infidelity or visit websites on affairs to truly figure herself out and learn about what she has been unable to escape. I get it, she doesn’t want to hear any of it while she is WW. However, I feel I did a disservice if we D and I didn’t try to point her towards what could help her beak free of her addiction.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
R’ville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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You have an explanation for everything C. AMOAFWL doesn't pursue like this. The best thing you could do is go NC. It is statically the best way to get an ex back. You need a good friend who is a PUA to help you with some basics.

Soon enough I think she is going to be tired of this.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by curtis7
Originally Posted by Sandi2
I realize you are trying to reach through her fog, but whenever it becomes pressure.......you lose her. I don't know what it will take for you to finally see. You've been so hellbent on telling her everything you read about WW's, that you've missed getting it yourself.
I am shining a light back on the MR and trying to reach through the fog and help her see. I know the lighthouse doesn’t go out to sea to pull a WW in. I just feel that she has not done any work to understand why she is making these choices. So, yes I am attempting to give her insight and the resources she needs to find her way. I think it behooves me to provide this to her. Perhaps one day she will listen to the audiobooks on infidelity or visit websites on affairs to truly figure herself out and learn about what she has been unable to escape. I get it, she doesn’t want to hear any of it while she is WW. However, I feel I did a disservice if we D and I didn’t try to point her towards what could help her beak free of her addiction.

I encourage you to read the above closely.

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C,

Oh boy. No sense in critiquing everything you said so I just want touch on some points.

1. You are not a changed man in one year. You just aren't. It's a complete and total Work in Process. You indicated you're a better listener but you do not listen to us or you're wife.

2. She's told you she's not attracted to you. That doesn't mean physically (most likely). She's not attracted to you because you're weak, controlling, passive aggressive etc. These are things you should be working on.

3. Sending her links on affairs is something someone does when they first find out about the affair. Not someone who has been DBing for a year.

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Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
You have an explanation for everything C. AMOAFWL doesn't pursue like this. The best thing you could do is go NC. It is statically the best way to get an ex back. You need a good friend who is a PUA to help you with some basics.

Soon enough I think she is going to be tired of this.


Remember what I said about your actions are in your silence and your actions speak louder than words. You will learn AS YOU BECOME MORE COMFORTABLE WITH YOURSELF that the silence will hurt at first because of attachment, dependency, guilt, past mistakes, etc. But eventually you realize who you are again, what is right FOR YOU. WHAT YOUR STANDARDS AND CONDITIONS ARE AND WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO COMPROMISE AND NOT COMPROMISE. You are slowly detaching and rebuilding worth in yourself. A person of worth and self respect doesn't keep pursuing people who take actions against them and what they stand for. If they want space. Give it to them. If they want a divorce. Grant it to them. If they no longer say they love you. BELIEVE THEM FOR THAT MOMENT. Let them go. You can't be in love with a memory. It is not now. It is was or has. Cut off all communications. Don't answer texts. Don't answer phone calls. Take 4-24 hrs to answer emails unless a priority. . Reject all breadcrumbing, indecisiveness on her part, manipulation, attempts to half heartedly reconcile, attempts to draw you back in, dates, etc. Remember how everyone here said. If she wants to reconcile, YOU WILL KNOW IT. Make her work to earn you trust through actions. There won't be any confusion. She has to choose fully and whole heartedly by her own volition and not by persuasion or manipulation. People are where they are because THEY CHOOSE TO BE THERE. I dont care if you are a rebellious teenager or a fully grown adult. We all make choices and decisions. Sometimes they are healthy. Sometimes they are not. God has to come before you. You have to come before you're XW and your kids have to come before both of you. Stop treating someone like a priority that treats you like an option.
^^^ This right here what ovrrnbw said.

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