It’s ok to be all over the place; this is a mixed up time for the LBS as they find their path. (((Hugs)))
Originally Posted by PLC
I know there really is not ANYTHING I can do, but I do not want to do anything wrong. Do I text him and ask? Do I wait and see?
Realize doing nothing is actually doing something.
Therefore the assertion that there is not anything you can do is inaccurate. You make a choice to leave this alone and not grab the rope. It is doing something. It is you controlling you and taking your power back.
My advice, do not text or otherwise inquire as to his whereabouts or plans. He told you on Monday what he felt like telling you. It does you no good to chase after him.
Do see things not as right or wrong. Everyone and every situation is different. And right and wrong do tend to blur. You do what is “right” for you. Focus on you, the most important person in this!
Also, do not “wait and see”. Live your life. Stand and move forward.
What hobbies are you into? Movies, puzzles, walks, gym, baking? Your time is your’s.
You’ve got the gift of time, use it well and use it wisely.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I did speak with an attorney who looked at our monies and we are house rich and cash poor. He of course tried to convince me that selling the house would be beneficial to me, because I could have a “little condo” and money in the bank. I cannot lose my husband, relationship AND the house. I’m just devastated that this too, could be slipping from my grasp.
I have a worksheet to go back the last 12 months for all of our expenses to see what exactly I need to live on. With H being gone, I will work on that. The attorney echoed what so many here have said, that to get them to put in writing what they want to do while the guilt is fresh. I’m torn because, I feel if I do, I am conceding to a divorce. If I don’t and we still divorce later, my money options could be a lot less.
We owe less on this house than a nice condo and our mortgage payment is the equivalent of a studio apt. So to lose that would be very drastic.
Hobbies? I am in the puzzle game right now with Covid being rampant. Since I will be alone until Weds, I will figure out fun meals to cook for me, shows to watch and books to read.
I was so proud I didn’t cry yesterday and now I just feel hopeless.
Things to consider with the house: (You don’t have to sell it until the last thing in the divorce, if you do end up selling it. )
Positives of keeping the house: Your memories are there You like the neighborhood You could rent a bedroom out for extra income You’re in California so if you kept the house you’d keep your low property tax (I’m assuming you bought your house for considerably less than what it would cost today. )
Negatives of keeping the house: You’re in a community property state so you have to buy him out of his half of the equity. Can you actually afford the payments if you do that? Can you qualify for a new mortgage to cover that? Also you were married 30 years and your payments are low so I’m assuming the house is older - will you have the money it takes to keep up the house? (Right now my house needs a new dishwasher, new fences, replacement of two wooden awnings, some window repair, outside paint, ...... you get the picture).
Property values are high right now so if you trade something for his share of the house equity - say, giving up your claim to his pension - you face the risk of the house depreciating in value in the looming financial crisis. Even bigger is the risk that you might get in a financial jam in the next couple years and have to sell it in a down market and lose some of that equity.
Examples: Scenario 1) imagine there’s $600k in housing equity in a house worth $700k. You sell the house and split it. Costs of selling the house are split between you both (6% realtor fees, repairs etc) so you end up with $280k.You pay capital gains on $30k of that and end up with $275,500. You rollover your share of the house equity into a small condo worth 300k. Your property tax is about the same as it was in the house but your mortgage is small or nonexistent. You do have to pay condo fees. You don’t have to pay for big outside repairs and maintenance though. You also have your share of his pension to help secure your future.
Scenario 2) You trade your $300k interest in his pension for his half of the house. Now you have $600k in house equity. You keep your low property tax bill but have to pay for unexpected repairs and save for large maintenance items like new flooring and a new roof, new water heater etc. You also have to save like heck to try to build up some retirement savings. You offset some of those expenses by renting out a room.
Scenario 3) You trade the pension for the house as above. Two years from now you’re unemployed and can’t make the payments. You sell the house for what it was valued at in the divorce . However now you have to pay all the fees involved in selling, not half, so you only get $560k equity, not 600k. You roll $300k into buying that small condo but have to pay capital gains taxes on the remaining $260k, reducing it to $221,000. You end up where you would have been in scenario 1 except with $79k less in retirement savings.
Scenario 4) You trade the pension for the house as above. The housing market crashes like it did last time and you lose your job so you have to sell the house. It’s now only worth $600k so you only get $465k out if it after selling costs. You buy the condo which now only costs $250k and pay capital gains taxes on the rest so you end up with $172k - worth much less than your share of the pension, which was worth $300k.
Scenario 5) You keep your interest in the pension and take out a mortgage loan to buy him out of the house. Your mortgage payment increases by $1600 a month and you will be paying on your mortgage for the next 30 years. You will have your share of the pension payments at retirement,
Except in an environment of rapidly increasing home values (which is not likely to be the case in the immediate future as homes are so overvalued in So Cal right now) it’s seldom the right move for someone in your age group to keep the house unless you have a high paying job and can easily afford to buy him out.
I know that it’s emotional letting go of it, but also consider whether you’d want to live there with his ghosts if you divorce. I had to agree to sell the house in the divorce because I couldn’t afford to buy him out. I bought a house in a less expensive suburb and have a small mortgage payment. I am receiving my share of his pension now that he’s retired. If I hadn’t had other people I needed to house (over the last 11 years, at various times, I’ve had my mom, two of my adult sons, and a boyfriend with cancer living with me) I could have bought a smaller townhouse and been mortgage free.
Consider running different scenarios with your figures. Ask a math-savvy friend or your accountant for help if it’s not your thing. I also really like the Ultimate Retirement Calculator at the Financial Mentor site to run quick retirement scenarios and see how different decisions would affect my financial future.
He does not have a pension. This is the crux of this. We walk away and I will get half of social security when he’s old enough to take it. I think with my job and alimony I could take care of the house. Maybe a roommate as suggested, possibly even our daughter if she does not move out right away. (She will be living here in the near future while looking for a job)
I just know so cal real estate is crazy. Buying a condo when I have a lovely back yard and privacy right now for less than half the price is brutal.
He just came home. I thought he was gone for the weekend. So he came in said hi, took a shower. I was cooking my dinner when he came out and he asked what I was making, I told him. He then told me he is going to the river to his friends house. He named off all of his friends that will be there. I think they are all divorced, never married, etc. these men were in our wedding party. As happy as I am that he told me, i am so sad that he is going to have a long weekend (he will be back Weds, then leave Thursday for ten days) and he looked relieved. He really doesn’t want to be with me. Maybe there isn’t another woman. Maybe this is all me. I am the cause of his unhappiness.
If not, then why can’t he love me? Why can’t he talk to me? Why not work it out?
What happened to us? I can name many situations and look at how we were raised that can be part of these issues. But ultimately, living in a SSM, money secrets and work over family have caused this spiral. MLC seems evident but then I could see that he was “happy” to be going to be with friends.
I just think that he is too far gone. I know that means take care of me, but I WANT HIM. What is the matter with me? Why am I not enough?
I know these are questions no one can answer, they aren’t him. But I think I’m great, friendly, curious, presentable always waning to learn more. I just don’t understand how someone can blow up their life like this.
My WW is not in a MLC but I understand you’re feelings. She seems to be pretty happy without me and like you I fall into that trap of saying yes I know I need to focus on me but what I really want is her and it’s a crippling pain to think the person you love most seems to be happier without you.
I feel for you and I’m really sorry you’re going through it. I had one of those days yesterday where my heart felt like it breaking and then re breaking every ten minutes. I’m so sorry.
I will say that it won’t last forever. You will have moments of peace. Maybe not many right now but they will come. In those moments try to realize that it’s not your fault. It’s really not.
All the things you mentioned that have contributed to your sitch could have pushed you to do what your husband is doing but guess, what it didn’t. You have remained committed and have stuck to the fact that your marriage was a lifelong commitment. That says something great about you and your character. No one can take that away from you.
You think your great? Know that you are great!
The hardest thing for me is to accept that no matter how much you love someone or how great you are you have no control over what they do and the things they want.
I read a quote on here that said something along the lines of sometimes you can be the person only a fool would leave and your spouse will leave anyways. It doesn’t mean you’re not great. It just means your spouse is a fool that would leave a great person.
That is not on you though.
You’ll get through this one way or the other.
You never know what could happen. He’s shown you he can change his mind once, there’s nothing stopping him from changing it again.
The best thing you can do is to become that person that only a fool would leave. I always try to expect the worse outcome and then imagine what actions can I take now that will allow me to hold my head high even in the worst outcome.
Consider various financial scenarios, as kml suggested. Keep to intellect and logic when comparing; look at the math not the emotion.
Then consider your feelings with the various scenarios. Realizing that feelings do flit. The excitement of a new place will only last so long. As would the sadness of leaving the old place.
We are beings of rational and irrational. Happiness come from balance.
The ghost of the past, living within those walls, is something you need to think about. However, my view is a little different - I like the ghosts and memories.
I have a big house, large yard, and the kids love coming home. None of the ghost/memories haunt me. Absolutely none of them. For a while, before acceptance, that was not so. Do remember feelings change; look to your beliefs.
Consider you, when you are passed this mess. A house is sticks and bricks. A home is within your heart. You’ll find the balance between rational and irrational.
Originally Posted by PLC
He does not have a pension. This is the crux of this. We walk away and I will get half of social security when he’s old enough to take it.
With no pension, no other large assets, it does simplify your scenarios and limit your financial options.
Originally Posted by PLC
I think with my job and alimony I could take care of the house. Maybe a roommate as suggested, possibly even our daughter if she does not move out right away. (She will be living here in the near future while looking for a job)
You think you could. That’s good.
Now, finish your spreadsheet and know that you could or could not. Know if you need a roommate or not. Knowledge is power.
Originally Posted by PLC
The attorney echoed what so many here have said, that to get them to put in writing what they want to do while the guilt is fresh. I’m torn because, I feel if I do, I am conceding to a divorce. If I don’t and we still divorce later, my money options could be a lot less.
Yes, their guilt usually does yield a better offer from them.
Is there separation in your state? Where I live, you have to separate for at least a year before applying for divorce. A financial separation can give you the financial security you need.
Also, do not get too worried and ahead of yourself - ensure you aren’t putting the cart before the horse. MLCers say lots of stuff and have grand ideas, and usually move rather slowly. There are some rare exceptions, my XW for example. Her BD was a nuke.
Originally Posted by PLC
He really doesn’t want to be with me. Maybe there isn’t another woman. Maybe this is all me. I am the cause of his unhappiness.
If not, then why can’t he love me? Why can’t he talk to me? Why not work it out?
The percentage of MLCers that have affairs is staggering. The OW means nothing. She is a bandaid, an escape, a futile attempt to feel better. It will end in ruin.
No one is the cause of anyone else’s happiness or unhappiness. Ever! Happiness, or the lack of, comes from within.
He can’t love you because he can love himself right now; he is in crisis.
He can’t talk to you because he is a complete mix of emotions, torment, and pain. He feels crazy! (My W actual told me she though she was going crazy. Of course she took that as a sign of her being clearly sane since a crazy person wouldn’t think that. Lol. You just can’t reason with a MLCer)
He can’t work it out. “It” being his unknown and unrealized past trauma causing his torment. The “it” you refer to - your marriage and relationship - is not on his radar. He is in crisis and absolutely driven to run. His emotions are out of control and he has no idea why. And you, my dear girl, were in the line of fire, and got blamed.
Originally Posted by PLC
I just think that he is too far gone. I know that means take care of me, but I WANT HIM. What is the matter with me? Why am I not enough?
I know these are questions no one can answer, they aren’t him. But I think I’m great, friendly, curious, presentable always waning to learn more. I just don’t understand how someone can blow up their life like this.
No, he is not too far gone. It is too early to tell. The future is thankfully unknown; let it reveal itself in time.
Ask your self - do you think he is too far gone or do you feel he is? I suspect you were speaking from your feelings. That’s good, by the way. Just be accurate with your thought and heart.
Know your intellect and know your emotions. You will craft and alter each independently and correctly when you see them clearly. They influence your beliefs and convictions. Be accurate, it really helps.
There is nothing wrong with you. Of course you WANT HIM. See accurately - him is H of old. The new H is different.
Realize the emotional feedback and coupling you are reinforcing by your questions of if you’re enough and what’s wrong with me. You are blaming yourself. Perfectly normal. Been there too.
Mental assertiveness comes from remaining accurate. That assertiveness strengthens your focus on you, moves you forward, let’s go, works through fear, and so on.
It’s complete normal for one to want to understand how their spouse can blow up their life. It’s ok, just don’t get caught up in his narrative, don’t fall down the rabbit hole too. We all need a certain amount of understand to let go. Remember focus on you; too much focus on H will drive you bonkers.
Fear. It is paralyzing. It is an irrational response.
Fear lives in the future. It thrives in the obsession over possible future outcomes of events. Fear does not live in the past or present. Once something actually happens, becomes real, there is nothing left to fear. Be accurate. One needs mental assertiveness to see clearly.
To become fearless one must understand fear. See where and when it lives.
Fear is not direct. It is a tangled feedback from an imagined outcome triggered by an event, thought, word, conversation, whatever. It is imagined.
Now, imagined doesn’t mean not real. Oh no, fear is very much real. It is just triggered by your imagined future, and reinforced from emotions irrationally tied to the triggering event.
Example. Fear of the dark. It is not the absence of photons we fear. Consider that. Do you fear the darkness when you close your eyes? No. One fears what lurked unseen in the darkness of night. But do we fear the lurking? No, we fear what those imagined demons and monsters would (will) do to us. We fear hurt, pain, death.
A sudden dark room brings forth these triggered responses. Our unrealized responses to imagined personal harm, pain, or death is irrationally tied and gets reinforced when one is immersed in darkness. We incorrectly fear the dark.
Fighting our fear directly doesn’t work, for it’s not the darkness we fear. You come at this sideways. Uncouple the fear response from the trigger. Go out on dark nights and enjoy the stars, the sounds, the beauty of the cosmos. Create new feedbacks and stop the reinforcement to the imagined idea of personnel harm. Fear is a feeling and will flit when not reinforced.
Find what and how you reinforce your fear and uncouple it.
Consider your list:
1 We will divorce
2 he will remarry
3 he will be happy and realize it WAS me that made him unhappy and it isnt MLC
4 we will not grow old together
5 we will have to move
6 I will be alone and die alone because he left me
7 I will not have someone love me like a husband should
8 people will pity me
9 he will have a great time without me
10 I will never drop the rope
11 he will eventually lie more and not let me keep all he said I could
What do you imagine happening with each of these? The deeper emotion.
I am interested in your response. I did share many of these same fears and would like to hear your views, before just going on with my own uncoupling suggested practices.
Hoping you have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you for your responses. I do need to be the type of person only a fool would leave. I need to remember and continue to GAL as that is how that becomes a reality.
As for doing the math and figuring out the numbers of what can work, I am giving myself a day off. This has been a ongoing issue since the second BD Monday, and after speaking with the attorney yesterday, quite stressful. Instead, I am cleaning out the closet. Purging unnecessary items. It needs to be done and with H gone until Weds, I can work on the numbers before he returns. But today-closet!
I will check back in today, I am going to think about what you asked me, Dnj.
This weekend has been hard. I began getting the numbers of what has been spent for the last twelve months so we can determine what I will need to keep the home and live. This is something an attorney suggested so I will have knowledge. It's a lot of work. I did some today, and will do some tomorrow night and Tuesday.
H told me he was going with his guy friends for a getaway and will be back on Wednesday. I have my doubts about where he is. In the last few weekends he has gone to ride his bike at the beach with a friend that has an open social media page. I have looked to see if this friend has posted anything this weekend and there is nothing. My H has also not posted, when he usually does when he goes to do something. This makes me believe that he went somewhere else with an OW or in search for an OW.
I do not know how this all plays in his need to tell me he wants a divorce. I know, I know, it really does not matter why he asked for one, except I cannot help but wonder why now?
This time last year, he was out of the country going on almost three months with NC except to ask for money twice. Our D25 was across the country and I had not hit my GAL stride. So it is how it is this weekend, with Quarantine now, I am staying home like I did a year ago.
Why is this weekend so hard? I mean no one is here, not unusual. I certainly only knew where he was but had no idea what or who he was doing.
I need some help for me to understand why this seems harder.
Here are the thoughts on my list. I do not know how to quote, so bear with me:
1 We will divorce-
Divorce is a hard thing to view. I married, as most here, for better or worse. I truly believe we can work through this. Yes, I know of people that have divorced and reconciled, but I would prefer to work hard on reconciliation.
2 He will remarry.
He is my husband, I do not want him to marry someone else, to be in love so much that he wants to commit to another person, when he could not hold up his commitment to me.
3 He will be happy and realize it WAS me that made him unhappy not MLC.
I can understand and respect if he is going through MLC, and although I understand that all MLC sufferers do not always come out on the other side of an MLC and can spend the rest of their lives trying to be happy, I am fearful that we divorce, he is happy to be free of the commitment of marriage and I am thought of as the cause of all of this.
4 We will not grow old together
One thing, we have been together longer than a part. I envisioned us traveling together in retirement. Having grandkids together, spending the night and grandmas and grandpas. Now that is a different reality.
5 We will have to move.
I fear that this house, we will have to move from. I do not necessarily have memories that willhurt, it is more of the security. I did not ask for this, I do not deserve to have my marriage blown up and now have to move because of his issues.
6 I will be alone and die alone because he left me I do not want to date anyone. So if I do not date I die alone.
7 I will not have someone love me like a husband should. NOw, this is where I feel that if he could can make it through this MLC with my support, I can have this
8 People will pity me.
This may be why I have not told anyone about this sitch. They can't help. I do not want to see their sadness and not be able to answer questions is too hard.
9 He will have a great time without me.
I do not necessarily think he is having too much fun. I think that he is having fun in the moment, but since he comes home and hides in the room, I think that it is only when he is out.
10 i will never drop the rope.
I know it is counter-in tuitive but I think that if I drop it is over, I do not want to give up
11 He will eventually lie more and not let me keep all he said he would.
I am afraid if I approach and say, "hey, H, last week you suggested I could keep the house and asked what I need to live here, here is the amount, can you sign this now ?" then it is over.
Her BD was a nuke.