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What I meant by Wild Girl being a fluke has nothing to do with how you felt about her. What I actually meant was someone her age who didn't seem bogged down by looking for a commitment and she seemed to kind of flit easily from you to the next guy but then back to you at cruise time. Maybe I'm wrong. I am a woman, but a straight one, so I don't date women so maybe this is typical behavior, but most women I know in her age group are either married or looking for some type of commitment where she seemed a little more footloose and fancy free, so to speak. At least that was MY interpretation of how you described her. My point was that is more atypical of women her age, but since you have labelled yourself love avoidant and don't really want anything serious, it was the perfect situation for you. By your own admission, if she had been clingy and chased you, you would've quickly lost interest. Nothing wrong with any of that...just seems that is not the typical woman in that age group. That is all I meant by fluke.

As far as "branching out" again maybe this is a semantics thing or maybe it is just my interpretation of what I'm reading, but you seem pretty steadfast against even considering dating older women, saying things like you don't want to force yourself to be attracted to someone. By saying "branch out" I was just meaning to maybe open your mind a bit. I get that you don't automatically shut it off if you hear someone is older than you might think just by seeing them, but in a way, it kind of sounds like you do. Like I said, it is likely semantics and my misinterpretation. I'm just saying keep an open mind. You, probably more than a lot on this board, have the opportunity to meet a high volume of women in all different age ranges and income levels and looking or not looking for specific things. Some might say you are in the catbird seat because you have your pick. Maybe you aren't really conscious of age at all IRL and it is just in your writings here where you can be more open that it comes out that you prefer younger. Not really sure. Again, the short answer that I just made really long is in saying "branch out" I really just meant to keep your eyes and your mind open and you might, at some point, find a 60 year old that knocks your socks off. I mean, look at Sam Elliott...he's like 125, but is totally the sexiest man in the whole entire solar system. wink


Me 52, H53
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Originally Posted by DonH
As for branching out - again, how do I do that? What would I do different than I do now?

I think Dawn is suggesting that maybe you should go in a different direction. You know, swing the other way. Catch the other bus. Light, comfortable shoes. Dance to the beat of a different drummer.

As far as how to do that; I really can't help you with that one.

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Originally Posted by doodler


As far as how to do that; I really can't help you with that one.



But rumor is that he may be able to lend you a dress and red fk me pumps.


Don, I agree you only meet who you meet, so maybe the way to do something different is to visit OLD and use a filters to include woman up to 5 or 10 years older than you and see what you find. If what your doing isn't working, then... how does that go again.

Also, someone mentioned guys having ages of interest from 20yrs younger to 2 years older, I just want to add that many woman do the same thing.. I for one will not reach out to them because it leads me to believe that they are looking for short term fun and not a commitment.. So I appreciate when they at least list what they are looking for, it helps me not waste my time. Me personally, I have 10 yrs younger and 5 yrs older as my preferred ages.


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Regarding wild girl.... didn’t she ultimately want another baby? Or am I remembering wrong? If it’s true - Then that would have been the fluke.


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What dawn said is so on point. 40 year olds with kids aren’t usually looking for a very casual no strings attached kind of thing. And if they are it’s a short lived thing they are getting out of their system, it ultimately, they aren’t looking to live their life that way. So, like wild girl, you got her for a summer, where she was all about the fun, but in the end, she wanted a LTR, even if she isn’t faithful in it.

You meet who you meet, yes. But like the others mentioned, maybe finding new venues to meet what you want to attract in. Meetups, different groups, different hobbies. You’ll meet different people

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Wow, lots of good comments - perhaps more feedback and discussion that I've had on my thread in a while. I wish I had firm answers but to much of it I simply do not. Dawn, thanks for clarifying and others thanks for helping. I guess I'm not sure I will ever know what the real truth is. Wild Girl as she would point out herself on more than one occasion said she may not be book smart but she was very street smart. She would sit back and observe and read people and was pretty good at it. So did she read me and simply tell me what she thought I wanted to hear? Perhaps. I got the feeling that she was not looking for serious but perhaps that was her protection mechanism? She clearly went very fast with the current guy she is still with and yes, she may have cheated for a week with me while in international waters, but I don't see any indication she's done that with anyone since - certainly not with me. It's the same with the baby - it was my gut feeling she wanted a baby - she never said as much. Maybe she wanted an R - just not with me. Maybe she wanted an R with me but knew I did not? Maybe she simply felt something with this guy that she never felt before and he is "the one." I really don't know and honestly have no reason to give it all that much thought. She held things very close to the vest. Her mom told me more than once she has always been like that. I am pretty sure that some to many of the things she said were not the full truth - remember, pay attention to what they do, not what they say. About the only thing she told me for sure and said it multiple times, was that the age difference bothered her. Not like she didn't want to be seen with me or anything, just that I was not at all her norm - with her last serious BF being near 10 years younger than her. She even talked with her BFF about that. The rest, I have thoughts but can't be certain.

If Wild Girl was a fluke in the way you guys seem to think, what does that say for me and my dating possibilities? I need another fluke to come along? You may not be wrong as I think the last time I dated the same woman 30 days/30 times (including the 10 days on the cruise) was 5 years ago. If being turned down by, what 6 or 7 women to go on the cruise is another example, yeah, maybe she was a fluke. Those of you who claim 40 year olds with kids only want LTR or mostly want LTR - I guess it could be. I can't help but think and I totally include myself in this statement - that we think most people want the same things that we want - so who knows?

I certainly don't feel like I have as many opportunities as you seem to think I do Dawn. Or maybe I'm missing opportunities? I would say if I'm going to paint with a broad brush and talk in general terms, it's not just women older than me that I am not attracted to - it's most women I meet. Even some that I had an interest in and some cases did ask out, many I've come to clearly determine they were not or are not my match - or I'm not their's. This includes women that I at first thought there could be something there and pursued it - only to find out she's not for me.

As for suggesting I try OLD again... LOL hmmmmm, well, did you happen to see my comments and thoughts on OLD over the years - including some here accusing me of bashing OLD? So I should try it again but set the parameters older? Yeah, I'm not so sure about that one.

I'm mostly just living life. I've not been trying to date, other than the cruise. Maybe I should. If I met someone I was interested in I would pursue her - it's just not really happened, or if it does, there are complications or they are not interested or there are red flags or on and on. I am complex - at least I think I am. I am not a big drinking, party guy - never have been. Yet I don't at all act my age and most people are shocked when they learn my age. I don't think that is just looks I think it's also how I act. I was very mature at 17 and had started my own business by then. I was in many ways 30 or 35 at 17 and am still 30 or 35 now at 56.

But I also have some other life things going on that are shaking me up a bit this week. Perhaps it is time to do some things different with my life. I've been more retired than not for the last 2 years and have not worked full-time now in 10 years. But I'm too young to retire - as I just pointed out in the paragraph above. Finding the right person is a tough order for me. Hmmmmmmm, perhaps Wild Girl was a fluke - in more ways than you or I first thought.


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I guess what I’m seeing is that you would like to have things happen more organically. I don’t get this chauvinistic, player vibe from you. It seems like you are not opposed to monogamy or a partnership - but maybe looking for one that develops naturally. Starting out casually with no forced expectations and then develops into a commitment - but probably not a marriage.

Is that right?

It helps to know what you are looking for but it also helps to know how the world has changed. So what exactly are you looking for? Finding someone the old fashioned way, might be more difficult now a days because of technology. People don’t go out open to meeting people anymore, because we are glued to our phones and apps. So it makes it more challenging if you are. Your pool of opportunities becomes smaller and it takes a longer time.

What also makes it more challenging, is the expectation that a random female you come across is gonna be open to casual encounters - and that it can evolve into a relationship without pressure. A lot of females want the stability moving forward a relationship or future. It might not always work that way - but it’s usually the goal going in. And yeah, it makes it less free spirited but that’s how a lot of women think. If they are ok with casual - that means they are also looking for something more from someone else while they are with you. I know you say that’s ok. But is it?

What exactly do you want?


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I think (correct me if I’m wrong, Don) that Don would like to have a steady girl who likes sex but gives him a lot of space. Not too different from what I’d like, actually. Living with CMM is less than ideal and frankly I have no desire to marry or necessarily live with someone. I do like a steady regular sex life, someone to be a sounding board and say good morning and good night, someone to do things with. But I also need time in my life for all my other activities, friends, family, work, hobbies and time alone.

Since you are semi retired Don, I think an equally retired or semi-retired woman could be a good fit, in that she’d have time for things like cruises, road trips etc. (This is a problem that occurs even in married couples btw where one is retired and one isn’t ).

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You both are pretty much correct. I'm clearly not chauvinistic or a player - those are both terms I've rarely if ever been called. I also have no need to serial date or date multiples of women - in fact I'd rather not. It's not fun anymore. I used to love to date, now while I can't say I "hate" it I certainly can't say I love it. So as KML somewhat spells it out, I'd be fine with dating the same person - and even steady sex is not a deal breaker - at least I don't think it would be. Little or no sex might be a deal breaker but I have to say I had way more sex with Wild Girl than has been typical, at least in recent years so that level is not a must have - but I clearly won't turn it down. LOL

I also don't have to have it happen "organically." I'd be fine if I met someone through OLD - it's just been my experience that I've never even come close. But much worse, I felt like crap after trying. So I finally decided, i'm not getting anywhere, I'm certainly not finding someone and I feel bad about myself afterwards so at least I can get the same results - which was nearly no results - and not feel depressed and used about it. I may have been going after those out of my league as KML says happens. I could see that. But I've very often dated up. I mean I see people, even here, who clearly are dating down, with some I wonder just who are they turning down for dates. But I am picky and I'm not going to settle and it's just been my experience with OLD you are totally settling and the quality people quickly figure out there are not many other quality people there and they bail. That happens in life. Quality attracts quality whether it be in the job market or meetups or clubs or whatever. People want to be part of something happening and successful and that's just not what I've found in OLD but if I somehow did, I'd be fine with it.

What do I want? I'm not sure. I know more of what I don't want. I'd be fine with getting into a LTR but by MY CHOICE and not by force. Again, that's why the book WMLB speaks to me. The author talks about just this - the women gets what she wants and the guy doesn't even know it happened to him. The more I feel pressured the less I'm going to want to do it. But if not pressured and I find a quality woman I'd want to be with her more often than not, I could totally see myself doing that. But I've heard a couple "celebrity" types talk about this recently. One is a local radio talk show host that used to also fill in for Rush. He's now in his 60s. I've been called his "jr." as we are much alike in many ways. He's never been married and at this point doesn't even try to date. He's done with it all. Yet, interesting enough, he talks more and more on the radio about past GFs - almost like longing for years gone by. He's given up and he's totally fine with it - or so he says. I also heard one of the original guys from the band Chicago. He's been married and D'd 3 or 4 times. When asked recently about getting married again he said "I don't know what I would or even could bring to a M." That is totally me. I don't know what I'd bring. I know what I'd get. But I'm not sure I offer as much. I certainly could. I just need a rather strong, self-confident woman who is happy with herself and doesn't need a guy to complete her. Just that right there - not going to find a lot of those OLD where half the profiles seem to be looking for their soulmate!

But maybe it's time to try again, I don't know. I just don't have the ambition and I think that's a lot of it and I think it shows. For whatever reason, I really tried with Wild Girl. Maybe it was needing someone to go on the cruise with me, I don't know. But even friends were like "dude, see, you gave some effort and see what you got?" And I agree. with more than half the dates I've gone on this year, I was pushing myself to go. It wasn't like with WG where I was really looking forward to it - it really was like going grocery shopping or something, I pushed myself to do it. Some of those women I should not even have asked out. A few I'd gone out with in the past and found no spark, why would it be different this time? A few of them I almost wish I could take back the cruise invitation - they didn't deserve to go. One I feel like I almost begged her. Seriously? I'm going to beg someone??? She should have been so flipping lucky and doesn't know what she's missing and should be totally regretting not making it happen. But she too may have sensed I was not all that interested. WG could sense I was. But I can't fake it. I'm just too brutally honest.

Been struggling with some other things but this post is long enough already and I'm not sure I'm ready to try to spell it all out. Tried to flirt with a waitress at a new bar gig on Friday (she's a school teacher and this is her PT gig) but she left before that went anywhere and I also heard complaints she was a terrible waitress LOL. Maybe it's the holidays as well, I don't know. I did finally get a cabin # for the cruise but have not tried to log in or check things out any further yet. Even with the drama, I was so excited and had so much fun last year. I just don't see that happening this year. I will try, I really will, I just hope I don't go from one of the best vacations in the last 10 years to one of the worst.

Anyhow, back to the original topic, I have been told so often how woman hate these guys that come on so strong and want to get married or at least get serious after the 2nd or 3rd date and all of these women who don't' want that, just want someone to do things with. While I know some of them, they don't date ANYONE. Some of you here seem to think they don't exist. Others think they exist but only in the retirement age. Hmmmmm, well I did get an inquiry to see if I could help out a band the day after the cruise in the Villages down in Florida. This place is a notorious sex party in Florida for the 60 and up crowd. Maybe I'll do better there. LMAO


DonH
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Okay, because KML was nice enough to remember and to be interested enough to ask, I am following through on my promise to report on my cruise - even though it's all past and gone and pretty much out of my mind (although it was talked about quite a bit again this past weekend including with Wild Girl's parents and aunt - all because hundreds of interested parties and many dozens of cruisers were together at a weekend event.) So here you go:

The cruise was a month ago this week. All in all it was better than i was anticipating. I'm certain that is greatly because I had pretty low expectations. If anything I found out much more about some of the core group i was with - more than I wanted to know. In all, it was not nearly as much fun as last year - and not just because i was alone and not getting laid smile Without saying anything to the others, they said it themselves - just not as good. Why? Well, it's a long list. We had to work more and harder. There were three less bands this year but the same amount of performance time. The food was not nearly as good, nor the service. I'm not a drinker but the drinks were TERRIBLE. I thought for sure I was drinking a virgin margarita. The cruise for whatever reason skewed really old. The ship was a ghost town by midnight and the number of canes, walkers, wheelchairs, scooters, OMG. Cabins not as large - bathroom by far was smaller and the shower barely fit one person where last year two were tight but fit. Don't ask me how i know that. LMAO.

Moreso however, and I knew this was going to be the case, where we had a core group of 12 or 14 last year for shore excursions and around the pool during the afternoon or bar hopping at night, it was a lot of the time just 5 of us. I did my best to stay out of photos to not look like a loser 5th wheel. It was not too terrible being by myself other than when like the ships photographer or others came around for couples photos - yeah award and then my "friends" would use this to make a comment. Which happened enough, Though you guys clearly know how I dish it out so I can't blame them for taking an opportunity for them to dish it to me. That said, I lost count how many times others said they should have come by themselves like I did. That's yet another of the many posts I could make - perhaps I will. And then, though I guess it really doesn't matter and it's just male pride, the wife of the keyboard player, who also knows Wild Girl's parents evidently told them Don didn't have much fun because Wild Girl didn't go. Really? So this is what it looks like under the bus. She's one to talk as I may do a post on this dysfunction going on with the two couples I was with but there was no reason for her to say that - other than to be a Btch.

There was the girl from out-state NY who I had flirted with last year and I had in my sights. I'll just say mission completed but no we did not have sex - I mean in the literal meaning anyhow. I did have fun with her and I'm glad i pursued her but, like often happens, I feel like I'm trying to force it. I don't want to body shame, but she just is bigger than i'm used to. Yes she does carry it well, but well, I'll just leave it there. She's as sarcastic as me, quick witted and fun, but also seems like perhaps some self esteem issues as well there. She talked bad about herself often, things like "Need to get my fat ass out of this chair" and stuff like that - like why put yourself down, especially since she is very cute, outgoing and fun. Anyhow, we did hang out a bit on my deck and had fun for much of the week - enough that we've kept in touch and are planning to meet up the next time work brings her to Chicago or anywhere within a reasonable drive of my location. We ta;led about me visiting, especially to ride her horses, but I'm not sure I'd risk that until we do a day or two during a work trip together to make sure. It's not a love connection and barely a lust connection. But at least it added to the cruise experience.

On the very last night at like 11:00 PM or later I finally got to talk to someone I had briefly met at the airport. She was friends of another musician i know but not well. Anyhow, we totally hit it off. She's age appropriate (I'm pretty sure very close to my age) a nurse but now works in upper management, very friendly, smart, fun, confident, very good shape and pretty. The total type I'd ask out in a second. We both said too bad we did not talk sooner as we'd have had so much more to talk about. Her husband is somewhat more quiet - yes she's married... of course she's married - all the good ones are. They met nearly 40 years ago - near FORTY FLIPPING YEARS and have been married 32 and seem very happy. Of course who knows, but I didn't see the bickering, etc. with them that I did with other couples I was with. I wrote this the way I did not to hint that something inappropriate went on as it did not - just that the pool of what is left over pales in comparison to those who have stuck by their marriage and don't bail. In other words, once again, the women I would totally date are already taken. I think I'm back to hoping for a widow.

So in the end, it was okay going alone but not near as much fun as last year. Also, as I look back, I almost want to go back and retroactively retract the invitations I made to at least some of the women i asked. They didn't deserve to be asked by me and clearly didn't deserve the extra effort I put into trying to convince a few of them to go. To be honest, there was really no one that I asked that i was as sure about as I was Wild Girl nor that I wanted to go as much. Then again, there was no one that I had dated more than a dozen times and spent like half a dozen weekends with either so it would stand to reason this would be the case. However, this was a true gift to some of these women who sat home and did nothing a month ago. It's their loss, but they can't seem to get out of their own way and now I feel bad for "lowering myself" to their level. I know that may sound harsh and I'm not even saying like I'm all that and they missed some best of their life opportunity - I'm just saying, I wish I would have not tried as hard with some people who didn't deserve it. And I'm not talking about all of the 4 or 5 or 6 or whatever it was just some.

As an aside, it was also interesting, I ran into a couple others this weekend who were on my list of considerations but I never asked. One I had known years ago and had a bit of a hook up with like close to 15 years ago right after my D. Wow, has she changed including she's now a smoker. Very glad I did not roll the dice there. Ran into someone else, and she would have been perfect and I was kicking myself for not checking and told her so. She's got a new job and could not have gone anyhow, so no loss, but it looks like we are going to get together here sometime. She lives about two hours away, however.

It's about 95% certain we will not be back next year - which since they are on the same cruise line, this was Princess BTW, we are sort of happy we are not. I'd say it's at least 50/50 we'll be back again in 2022 or 2023 though so hopefully there will still be a chance for a repeat of 2019.

And that's it, unless I'm missing something and if so, I'll be happy to try to answer. As an aside, there are all sorts of other things going on in my life as well but I've just not been feeling it here lately, although some of my faith has been restored as of late. We'll see if I get back to posting here on this thread more. Then again, I can't even remember the last time I posted on my FB page either, not even a single cruise post, so maybe I'm just posted out in general and it's just me and not the environment or others. Time will tell.


DonH
Midwest
Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
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