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#2875694 12/11/19 06:39 PM
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Link to previous thread:
Is there hope?

Recap: BD 9/19, learned of EA with OM 10/19. Confronted, one counseling session failed. EA rediscovered, discussed 12/19. Currently living together, no known attorneys or mediation at this time. Recently discussed how long we will be in limbo with nothing solid determined. W was told I wont push my boundaries and start mediation however I would go if she sets it up. D4, S1. Daily life has minimal communication, no physical interaction.

Thank you all for the advice and pointing out when I'm off base. I believe in wearing my ring so I will do just that. In my most recent chat with W where I broke half the rules, my W has to know I'm still in pursuit and pretty much have been. If I change my method suddenly, it may seem like a game. W knows I care about her, wont file and that I'm ok living together currently while I work on myself. Do I stop pursuit from here, or give a sign I moved on other than GAL, 180s?

Was forced to talk finances yesterday, kept it brief. From here on out I stick to my plan in the other thread that I broke already. I read that limerence in EAs can last 3m to 3y. Yikes. With W already potentially being convinced to D before EA occurred, I don't have much hope for the relationship but I am battling on for myself and my kids.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 309
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Core, your actions moving forward is what matters. Don't worry about how she interprets you dropping the pursuit.

Your question of giving her a sign that you are moving on doesn't even need to be asked. Just move on and GAL - actions speak louder than words (on your side, as well as hers).

Steve talks often about the importance of GAL. Work on yourself and let her figure out her mess. You guys need space if you're going to have a chance.


H 37
W 31
S 2

T: 7
M: 4

BD 12/18
Separated 2/19
Living back together 04/06/2019
W Moved out again 07/15/2019
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Prior to getting ILYBINILWY and BD, did you know she was ready to leave?


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
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Thank you Jac, thats the thinking that got me here in the first place.

Steve85, we had troubling signs before BD, I just didnt know it was so serious. In 8/19 and part of 9/19 we were looking to buy a new house together. We pulled an offer and thats when this all got really serious. She looked up her ex in 9/19 the day after we pulled our offer.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
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Core,

I am longtime DBer (from more than 10 years ago - I can't remember my old password and changed my email) However, I must offer you a few thoughts. I was in a very similar situation to you.

1. I was once like you, I was told I wasn't good at following DB. I often broke the "rules" I didn't fully commit to the program. Why? Because I knew my wife, marriage and family better than anyone here. Guess what though I'm still married. My marriage is probably as good as ever. You asked a while back of stories of people not exactly following the rules and still being successful. That's me. It can be done.

2. You need to be careful with the advice here. I'm not saying that anyone here is malicious or wrong or doesn't have the best intentions. But I need you to understand that most of the people offering advice here are not trained professionals - either a combination of education/experience nor are they coaches trained by MWD. They just have anecdotal evidence.


3. I know for a fact at least a couple of the people posting here were the OM. That's why the seem to know a lot about the OMs

4.

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Originally Posted by Core
Thank you Jac, thats the thinking that got me here in the first place.

Steve85, we had troubling signs before BD, I just didnt know it was so serious. In 8/19 and part of 9/19 we were looking to buy a new house together. We pulled an offer and thats when this all got really serious. She looked up her ex in 9/19 the day after we pulled our offer.


My point is that she wasn't acting unusual, then you got ILYB and BD. So don't look at "If I change my method suddenly, it may seem like a game." Just like you don't do things to manipulate her, you don't NOT do things out of fear of how she will take it. DBing isn't a game. It is getting right yourself. A healthy spouse in a healthy marriage will have a life of their own (GAL), will be self-improving (180s), and will be self-differentiated (detachment). If not.....then they are headed for a BD.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
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Core,

Actions speak louder than words. There is no need to tell her that you are moving on...just do it, drop the rope and live your life to the fullest.

About the advice given on the forums, we having saying around here, listen and apply what may work for you and your situation. No one has the key to the golden trinket box that says everything we advise will work in your situation. Try different things, when you find something that works, they continue doing it. If something isn't working, drop. No one knows your situation better than yourself.

No one is going to be a perfect DBer. DBing is not just about trying to save your marriage, but it is a technique that is used every day IRL. It is to help you navigate your own journey as well and learn how to react/not react to what others say or do. You can DB people that you work with, family, friends, etc. We are human and we make mistakes all of the time. The beauty of the mistakes is learning from them so that you aren't beating your head up against the brick wall all of the time. The definition of crazymaking/insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and the results are the same.

This is your time to grow and learn about yourself. It is a time to try new GAL activities and to get that old list out of things that you wanted to do and never had the time to do them. Try to remember, you can't fix her, she has to do that herself. The only person you can fix is yourself (if there are changes to be made).

Keep the focus on you as a watched pot never boils. Hang in there!



Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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When it comes to advice here it seems for me that a majority of the time at least the forum is right. The first few months of me posting here, I was nowhere near convinced the recommendations here were the right things to do. I had many reasons but the one that made me post skeptic was that there must be cultural differences. I live in Sweden, surely the mentality and behavior canīt be the same here as in USA.

But every time I went with my intuition it drew her farther away. And every time I listened to the advice here, my W would react almost exactly as predicted. How I wish now that I had listened to the vets. If I knew then what I know now, my situation could perhaps have been different. But I donīt care if itīs too late now, the advice Iīve been given while here has changed me completely as a person. Iīm so enjoying being Ben 2.0 in all my relationships now.

I also lied to myself. I remember posting a few months ago that I couldnīt find ways to GAL because I have the dog to take care of. Now that W moved out, I have tons of things planned all the time. Friends coming over, going to get massages, going on trips etc etc. The truth, I see now, was that I didnīt really want to GAL, I wanted to be near my W when she was home.

Just an example of how we think we ware detaching but the reality is that we tend to hold on to that rope for a long time.


Me: 38
Stbxw: 35
No kids
Mini bd: February 6, 2019
ONS confirmed Sept 7, 2019
Told her to move out: September 8, 2019
W moved out: September 28, 2019
Divorce filed by me: September 23, 2019
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Core,

Sorry you're going through a rough time. Addressing your underlying anxiety issues will probably have a very positive and widespread effect on you and your sitch. Get great help with this and really work at it. Really dig in on this man.

You are struggling with the counter-intuitive nature of the advice you are getting here. I get it. But the reason the vets' advice carries so much weight is that they have seen so many sitches over the years and the same scenarios play out in similar fashion over and over and over. There are exceptions to every rule but the odds are stacked heavily against you that you have an exceptional sitch. You have been referred to Sandi's Rules. You can follow them, or you can do the opposite if you like. Here are the Anti-Sandi's Rules:

1. Pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead and implore! This turns the spouse completely off, but do it anyway!

2. Make frequent phone calls to spouse.......never let him/her be the one to call you. Try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....never say good-bye first.

3. Point out good points in marriage and try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you alone but share it anyway!

4. Follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Encourage talk about the future. Even though they don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, and they want to stay clear of that subject.

6. Ask for help from family members or friends. Discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Ask for reassurances (Show neediness and be clingy.) Don't show self-respect or self confidence.

8. Buy gifts to make "brownie points". (You can't buy his/her love and affection but try to anyway.)

9. Schedule dates together. (Pursuing.) Don't wait for later when the R is much better.

10. Spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse but do it anyway.)

11. Say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it, but say it anyway.)

12. Don't act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a
bad attitude.

13. Don't be cheerful, strong, outgoing or attractive at any time! In other words, be the worst you can be and look the worst you can look at all times.

14. Sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – don't get busy or think of things to do. Don't go to church, or go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself.

15. When at home with your spouse, don't be scarce with your words. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "everything" and have a unpleasant expression on your face. Make it long and complicated. Get into an argument! Don't stay polite. Act like you are pouting. Don't use poise and class. Be overly talkative.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM EVERYTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are NOT giving them space and asking no questions! You don't enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are not getting a life also.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have not had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are not going to move on with your life without your spouse.

18. Be nasty, angry and cold. Don't pull back and wait to see if spouse notices - ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!! This is important! If you don't, then you have blown it.

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse unhappiness and discontentment. This will not confuse them b/c it is what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would not want to be around all the time, somebody that cannot be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see that.

20. All questions about marriage should not be put on hold, even though your spouse doesn't want to talk about it, so don't be patient.

21. Always lose your cool! Let your spouse trap you into a fight. Take her/his bait.....don't leave the room or the house for a while in order to avoid a fight.

22. Be overly enthusiastic, always over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake, and you want to look fake.

23. Argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel but argue anyway!

24. Don't be patient......be very, very impatient. Don't give your spouse space and time. If you pull back, it will draw them towards you, but don't pull back - be impatient anyway.

25. Don't listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Don't look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Interrupt them when they are speaking and don't stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really don't care about what they are saying.

26. Learn to never back off, never shut up and never walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).

27. Don't take care of yourself (don't exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Don't be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Don't read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes.

29. Know that if do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be not be noticed more than any words you can say or write, so say and write lots of words instead.

30. Openly show that you are "desperate" and "needy" when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse, but do it anyway.

31. Focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, do not focus on them.

32. Believe everything they say and 100% of what they do. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared, and believe it all.

33. Give up no matter how dark or light it is or how good or bad you feel. Give up.

34. Ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse, but ask them anyway. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return, but so what.

35. Send several TM's or emails throughout the day. This is absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to get involved in the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Backslide from your hard earned changes.

We are all rooting for you Core. This is tough stuff buddy. You can and will weather the storm and come out of this better than before, it will take some time for you to believe that and then feel that but it's true. Hang in there man!


H: 55 W:43
M: 8 T:12
S(11) D(8)
BD: 10/18 (ILYBINILWY)
IHS: 1/19
Physical Separation: 8/19
D FINAL: 6/21
W filed D: 4/19
Physical Separation 8/19
Joined: Dec 2019
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Originally Posted by BenB
When it comes to advice here it seems for me that a majority of the time at least the forum is right. The first few months of me posting here, I was nowhere near convinced the recommendations here were the right things to do. I had many reasons but the one that made me post skeptic was that there must be cultural differences. I live in Sweden, surely the mentality and behavior canīt be the same here as in USA.

But every time I went with my intuition it drew her farther away. And every time I listened to the advice here, my W would react almost exactly as predicted. How I wish now that I had listened to the vets. If I knew then what I know now, my situation could perhaps have been different. But I donīt care if itīs too late now, the advice Iīve been given while here has changed me completely as a person. Iīm so enjoying being Ben 2.0 in all my relationships now.

I also lied to myself. I remember posting a few months ago that I couldnīt find ways to GAL because I have the dog to take care of. Now that W moved out, I have tons of things planned all the time. Friends coming over, going to get massages, going on trips etc etc. The truth, I see now, was that I didnīt really want to GAL, I wanted to be near my W when she was home.

Just an example of how we think we ware detaching but the reality is that we tend to hold on to that rope for a long time.



I was watching a Roseanne rerun and she said - we can be miserable and nothing will change or we can be happy and nothing will change. I think DB is about trying to be happy while nothing will change.

My point about the advice was that there are number of external factors that the advice never takes into account. I know some may jump on me for saying that you don't have to following the "rules." But that is not what I am saying. Core asked a question and I answered.

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