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Originally Posted by job
I would plan activities and then ask if he would like to tag along. If he says no, then go on and do those fun things and leave him home to mull over his mess. If he says yes, then go and have a good time.

You have to learn how to phrase your requests. You need to give him the option of doing something or not.


^^^^This is critically important.
Another good option is not asking if he want to tag along.

Just a small selection of ways to make the statement:

W:"H, Kids and I are going ice skating tonight. We are leaving at 6 and will be back at 9"
or
W:"H, Kids and I are going ice skating tonight. You are free to join us if you would like"
or
W:"H, Kids and I are going ice skating tonight."
or
W:"H, Kids and I are going ice skating tonight. I would like you join us, but I understand if you don't"
or
W:"H, Kids and I are going ice skating tonight. Would you like to join us?"

If I was in your shoes, I would test the waters using the top method. See how he responds. I would do it for 5 or six events. After that, if you believe he wants to join you, try the second. If he turns down invites, Go back to informing vs inviting.

Remember, no pressure.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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Originally Posted by Steve85
The only way this is successful it to NOT do something to instill fear in him. IE, you really start to move on. If you do really move on he will start to feel that and it COULD.....key word.....COULD instill him with a fear of loss. Or he may be so far gone he doesn't care if he loses you.?
Steve is wise and clarified my belief well.

Most posters do things trying to manipulate their spouse. This does not work.

When you decide that you have had enough of the BS and do things that protect you and your kids, you are on the right path.

Everything is so counter-intuitive. Even at the point in the process when the spouse comes back begging for you to take them back.


This is a big onion that needs to be peeled by you. Get good at peeling off the layers. Read as much as you can here. Cadets links, my quotes, sandi2 posts.

You two know each other better than anyone else on this planet. You now see the real him. He sees the real you. Flaws and all.

This is all about your personal growth and has nothing to do with your spouse. He is on his own path. You fix you. He fixes him. He can't change you. You can't change him.

Best worst thing I ever went through. I am grateful looking back. I am a better person after going through the process.

HUGS


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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He isn't responsible, b/c you would tell him to let you know if he couldn't pay a bill, so you could cover it. I give you credit for being the responsible person in the M, but you kept thinking he would do the right thing and step up to the plate......but does he have the moral integrity to be responsible. Apparently there was no motivation or consequences to change his ways. He is treating you terrible, and he continues to have no consequences! Do you see what I mean? Your H eats cake b/c he can! Why should he change? B/c of his kids, or his marriage? No, b/c that means he would have to stop playing around and act like a responsible father & husband. Stop assuming he will just do the right thing. He sounds as if he's been spoiled rotten. I don't know if he is in a MLC (without more information), but there is no excuse for his behavior. There's a reason, but not an excuse.

Okay, so you are a very hard worker, and probably driven. You probably keep things functioning properly at home. You make sure the kids get their homework, have dinner, bathe, etc. You see what needs to be done.....and you do it. Your H, on the other hand, is not as driven. I'm wondering if his mother made him do chores, and I'm not saying this to be sarcastic. Can you tell us a little about his childhood? How was he in the early years of the M?

How was your sex life? I would think after working all day on your job, and then going home to deal with the children's needs and getting the chores done....you would be exhausted by bedtime. Not to mention you were probably seething, since your H didn't do that much to help around the house. I think most any woman would eventually have a little resentment. If you couldn't find a healthy way to live with a man who seems to be opposite of yourself, then I'd guess that you were pushing more & more resentment down into your heart. While at the same time, maybe he felt neglected. IDK, and that's why you can respond to my statements, so that we will understand the situation better.

Oh, sorry......I just went back to read your first post again, and you were saying pretty much what I just wrote in the paragraph above. As for as I can tell, all the work at home was done when he would go home around 10:00 or so. Was he intentionally going home late every night, or was he getting off his job at that time? When did he ever spend time with his children? He told you he would always be there for the kids, but is he there now? Am I being unfair?

Yes, of course he is trying to force your hand to let him go. (I'm sure the OW is putting pressure on him to divorce.) However, I don't know that it would be considered an exit affair. I mean, it's not his first affair, so did you think the other time was an exit affair? Would it make a difference in your feelings or decisions, to know it was an exit affair?

I was a wayward wife, and had an EA. I doubt anyone gets more riled about wayward spouses when a story of someone cheating or mistreating their spouse. If I could get you to understand how you are enabling the beast, maybe you would stop it........then again, maybe you wouldn't. I bet you are a good woman, and you are obviously a devoted mother. There is no freaking way I could put up with what you've dealt with......but you probably wouldn't want my life, either. Life often dishes things we don't deserve, and it doesn't necessarily depend on whether or not a person is caring, kind, patient, or good. I just said that b/c I don't want you to feel like I am judging what kind of woman/wife/mother/person you are. That's why I told you I had an EA years ago. I'm not in the position to judge anyone.

Quote
I still love him and want our marriage to work for our children, but also because I care for him.


Why do you still love him? It sounds admirable to say you want to work on a M for the sake of your children, but one day those kids will be gone with their own lives, and it will be two strangers left at home. Then what? What's your plan? Don't get me wrong, Hesable. I'm not trying to persuade you to get a divorce. I'm trying to get you to tell us why you love this man. Are you prepared to live the rest of your life, lonely? You have continued to wait on him to change, it seems, and he just goes further the opposite direction. You continue to function like a single parent, and you might need to think about changing up a few things. Maybe I am being too harsh with my comments. Maybe you aren't ready to give a response. But, if it causes you to be honest with yourself and think about what you are prepared/willing to do to have the love and happiness you desire, then maybe this long post is worth it.

My final question (this time) is about boundaries. What are your personal boundaries, when it comes to how others treat you? What about boundaries for the marriage? If you discover your H is in another affair, what will influence you the most in deciding what you will do? I don't expect you to actually write out an answer to all my questions. I do hope you will think on them.

Take good care of yourself.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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Wow sandi, I felt like you were writing to me as well. Thank you for your insights.

Hesable, I don’t have much advice as I’m in the same situation as you. Just know you are not alone.


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Originally Posted by sandi2
...I'm wondering if his mother made him do chores, and I'm not saying this to be sarcastic. Can you tell us a little about his childhood? How was he in the early years of the M? ...

How was your sex life?...Was he intentionally going home late every night, or was he getting off his job at that time? When did he ever spend time with his children? He told you he would always be there for the kids, but is he there now? Am I being unfair?...

Why do you still love him? It sounds admirable to say you want to work on a M for the sake of your children, but one day those kids will be gone with their own lives, and it will be two strangers left at home. Then what? What's your plan?...

What are your personal boundaries, when it comes to how others treat you? What about boundaries for the marriage? If you discover your H is in another affair, what will influence you the most in deciding what you will do?...



Great questions, sandi2. Some I have no idea how to answer yet, but they give me a lot to think about.

First of all, his childhood..his mother passed away this year. She pretty much let him get away with a lot of things and did not make him to do a lot of chores. He is the youngest in his family (but so am I so no excuses there). His father was a poor role model - would come into the house while his mother worked her butt off with the 3 kids and would sit on the sofa watching tv and reading the paper. His father also has been divorced several times and is very moody; to this day, if he does not get his way, he will get in a rage, pack his things and leave the house without saying goodbye to anyone.

Sex life...as I stated earlier, I was just so exhausted from working full time and operating like a single mom (and having no real family support in the area where we live) that we ended up having a lot of quickies. The sex quality was pretty bad a lot of times and was not as frequent as he would have liked. I realize that was a real problem and I wanted to work on it, but I was so depressed, resentful and EXHAUSTED!!!

I love the old him, not the new him. I am also a very spiritual person and believe that our marriage was a covenant between me, him and God - not just between me and him. I took our vows very seriously and do not want to take this whole concept of divorce lightly by any means. Also, I would like to keep our family in tact if possible.

I set good boundaries outside my marriage and do not tolerate toxic behavior well. I have completely cut off contact with friends and family who were acting toxic. As to the other questions, I need to think more about them (e.g., what is my plan after kids leave? what are boundaries in my marriage?)


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One more answer. When he would come home late, it was partly due to work. He attends a lot of evening/weekend social events/coffees/dinners/happy hours to "network" and promote his business. Some he could miss, but I think he intentionally makes lots of social commitments because he is very sociable and to avoid coming home to deal with the drudgery of family life. Hence, my resentment. I take on the bulk of "kid work" and when I ask him for help with something specific (e.g., watch the kids, pick someone up), he is usually too "busy." Sometimes he will help though and this year was actually the best he has done ever.

Part of what led to the BD was me "putting my foot down" and bringing up all the crap he does that I can see through. I have enabled him all along and I realize that, but I finally wanted to get it all out in the open about how I needed more help with the kids and around the house, how he needed to come home earlier, etc. to make our marriage work. He then decided that he actually does not want to work on the marriage and sent me a web link about divorce in our state.


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Oh, and out of fairness..He does do one other thing around the house other than take out trash (sometimes) and wash the dishes he uses. He does his own laundry. Sorry...


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Hi HesA,

Hope you are doing ok! Hang in there. I see a lot of similarities between our two situations-- my H travels a ton for work and so I single parent a lot (a week a month or so) and work full time. I had a lot of resentment about the burdens of all of that plus was totally consumed by being a mom, and was not very interested in sex with him. The last few years he went out on his own and his business the last couple of years hasn't been as successful as it was at first, and I know this was really hard on him (plus I wasn't exactly supportive generally since I was also a little resentful that I had to do the 8-5 gig and as a consultant that worked for himself he had a lot more control over his time-- felt like he should just get a real job). I also think he's struggling somewhat with MLC-- turned 40 this year, went on a dieting binge, stopped going to church, is majorly fighting with his dad.

We finally went to MC a little over a year ago and basically fought about all the above plus his anger management in front of her. Same here, he did not want to commit to working on our M and instead (unbeknownst to me at the time) started a long distance EA which is still going. Finding out about her was really hard and continues to be awful but it does help make more sense about why he's acting the way he is and not interested in working on the R with me. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if there is an OW in your situation.

The main differences are that post-MC (and potentially application of some DBing) my H actually got WAAAY better at doing his part of the household/kid duties, and while he hasn't moved down to the basement yet I know he is thinking seriously about it. I've been attempting to DB for about six months, and he has gone from flinching at my touch and being very uncommunicative to back to being good friends. The DBing has helped tremendously in our day-to-day communication and we rarely fight. However, no magic elixirs from me here since (a) he still is talking to his AP and doesn't know that he wants to be married to me and (b) while I've been good at parts of DBing, like 180s and GAL, I am terrible at detaching and still hold a lot of anxiety and fear over what happens if he walks out the door (or down to the basement). He has this fantasy D in his head where we would still vacation together, eat dinner together, he would just go next door to his house with the AP.

Question-- so your H got way better at helping out and then post-BD has completely stopped? Is he around for the kids at all these days?

And Woosa, if you read this-- he's doing his own laundry!!


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Originally Posted by may22


Question-- so your H got way better at helping out and then post-BD has completely stopped? Is he around for the kids at all these days?!


He got way better at helping out (committed to taking one kid to school certain days a week, was more willing to watch kids for me to run errands alone, helped with one of the kids' laundry, became more involved In school projects/meetings, etc.) After the BD, he does the bare minimum and not even consistently. It is like he got amnesia concerning the commitments he made to step up earlier in the year.

Last edited by HesAble; 12/14/19 06:35 AM.

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Originally Posted by may22
And Woosa, if you read this-- he's doing his own laundry!!

Lol!!! I AM following this thread. the laundry... I’ll see if I can get there. Ha.

Hesable- I’m in a similar situation. H didn’t contribute much & suffers from depression & alcoholism. I was full of resentment and consequently lost respect for him, so our marriage became sex-starved. No wise words for you right now but I’d recommend just work on yourself first. Love yourself, work on yourself, and then love yourself more.


BD: Sep 2019
D in progress
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