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C70 #2877633 12/26/19 03:06 AM
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I can relate 100%. I'm in the middle of an in-house separation that's going on 6 months (3 months in separate bedrooms) and today was tough. I had many of the same thoughts about this being our last Christmas under the same roof etc.

My own thread is here, if it's of any interest to you or others -- I don't want to hijack yours, but it shows you where my perspective is coming from:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2876442&page=1

Don't beat yourself up for your failings. I failed at least 2x this Christmas, in terms of maintaining frame. I tried to give her a hug last night (Christmas Eve) after we'd finished wrapping up the gifts for the kids and were heading to our separate bedrooms around 1am -- she let me hug her but kept it "standoffish." Then tonight, after Christmas Day was over and the kids were in bed, she was heading up to her room for bed while I was in the living room and she said "Goodnight" and I said "Merry Christmas," she replied "Merry Christmas" ... then I stupidly said "I love you" as she turned her back and walked away. Ooosh.

My emotions were also all over the place today. I think it's to be expected with Christmas and children around. Stay strong, brother.

C70 #2877839 12/27/19 07:24 PM
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Hi Chaz,

How are you doing? I am familiar with the difficulty you find yourself in. It is unlike any other pain. Keep putting one foot in front of the other, even when the steps feel uncertain. Be patient with your sitch and with yourself.

As Job mentioned, these feelings are all very normal. Considering the circumstances, you are handling things well.


Me:45 ExW:48
M:04/97
3 Bombs & 2 ReCons
1st BD 11/10
D Finalized 4/20
D-16 S-14
Going in one more round when you don't think you can. That's what makes all the difference in life.~Rocky Balboa
C70 #2878041 12/30/19 12:23 AM
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Hi all,

Have been reflecting on the past few days. Christmas Day was hard, but now I’me feeling ok about it. Once I had journaled my thoughts it was a weight lifted. I was encouraged by the replies that it’s ok to feel these thoughts emotions, it’s what I do with them. Old me would have fixated on them with negative behaviour, thoughts and attitude. I speak to myself everyday, reminding myself to use PMA, be the lighthouse, be the energy for myself and by extension those around me.

This got me thinking though, whilst continuing to stick to LRT and dBing it occurred to me that there is a 180 that I haven’t managed. It seems to be counter intuitive with the above techniques. I think a complaint my W would justifiably level at me is that I was emotionally withdrawn and I wonder how I can express this via action rather than words? For it to be a change, I would need to be calling her or texting first instead of the reactive state I currently and probably always have done. It’s a conundrum I’m stuck for any idea that wont undo any other changes. Could do with some guidance!

Thanks as always





C70 #2878042 12/30/19 01:05 AM
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C,

It’s very common for the lbs to use any excuse possible to try to pursue. It’s also known as the illusion of action. It is never and I mean ever a good idea to pursue someone who is rejecting you. It is a display of low value.

Work on your other 180s.

C70 #2878590 01/03/20 01:55 PM
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Forgive the stream of consciousness, feeling melancholy today.

Have been thinking of the dynamics currently in play and where my sitch is in terms of journey. I think i'm in a bit of a fog, amongst others, feeling weighed down by W family interactions with me, or rather lack of them. I always felt part of her family and would always be included and welcomed to any family event, but ever since BD they have excluded me from practically everything. My W takes the kids to see them, upon invite, but any invite is not extended to me. To be fair as things are i would probably decline a few but not all. I understand they will be naturally siding with my W, but i thought i had a good enough relationship with them to merit at least an enquiring 'how are you doing?'. But nothing. Its like i've been erased.
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I've also noticed that certain mutual friends have also done the same. I wonder whether they are enabling my W, by virtue of what version of our story my W has told them and they are feeding her view of our M. It has made me question whether they are worth my time and thoughts. Which then leads me down the rabbit warren of thoughts of R. Would i be able to accept their friendships and family inclusion, when at the moment i would feel they are two-faced?

Anyway an update on my sitch:

Since Christmas, we have had a lot of family time together, Boxing Day we went to friends and spent the day and evening with them, it was fun and relaxing for everyone, lots of laughs and anyone observing would in no way believe we are leading IHS lives. From my perspective, i didn't really think about the moments of the day, i just enjoyed them and carried myself with PMA, and without probably realizing that i was being the person i'm meant to be. I guess this is a result of adopting DB, and detaching from analyzing every interaction.

NYE passed without incident, we allowed the kids to stay up to see NY in, perhaps this allowed a reduced focus on my W and I to do what we have always done, which is to spend with Friends, enjoy drinks, kiss and hug etc. Instead it was hugs for the kids, but nothing from W. I didn't attempt to hug or embrace my W. And that was that.

New Years Day, my W went into cleaning mode. She has done this in a passive aggressive way before BD, a not so subtle notice to me that she wants things done because my way of doing it wasn't right, or she was taking herself away to re enable distance between us. Who knows?

I'm fairly certain she has questioned her decision to BD me, maybe just through subconsciously absorbing different behavioral patterns,however nothing explicit and am mindful that i shouldn't really read anything into it and this has borne out in the very little interaction we've had since.

All in all i recognise i'm not detaching as much as i should, but happy when i look back at the old me and see how much DBing i've employed since and the differences i notice in myself as i handle this roller coaster. I'm a bit more measured rather reacting on emotions which is a huge step for me.





C70 #2878595 01/03/20 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaz70
Forgive the stream of consciousness, feeling melancholy today.

Have been thinking of the dynamics currently in play and where my sitch is in terms of journey. I think i'm in a bit of a fog, amongst others, feeling weighed down by W family interactions with me, or rather lack of them. I always felt part of her family and would always be included and welcomed to any family event, but ever since BD they have excluded me from practically everything. My W takes the kids to see them, upon invite, but any invite is not extended to me. To be fair as things are i would probably decline a few but not all. I understand they will be naturally siding with my W, but i thought i had a good enough relationship with them to merit at least an enquiring 'how are you doing?'. But nothing. Its like i've been erased.


Understandable. I'd feel the exact same way. However, as someone who was recently on the family side with my niece leaving her husband, it is a tough situation. We loved her husband. He was a great guy, and was mostly innocent in the breakup of their marriage. Was a perfect H? Well, who could be? Let alone a guy in his early 20s? But he was a great guy and we all care for him very much. But are afraid to extend his pain. Maybe he wants to move on and to hear from her family would be difficult. It is a difficult thing. If you had a good relationship then rest assured that you are on their minds. They feel for you. And if they are praying folks they are praying for you.
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Originally Posted by Chaz70

I've also noticed that certain mutual friends have also done the same. I wonder whether they are enabling my W, by virtue of what version of our story my W has told them and they are feeding her view of our M. It has made me question whether they are worth my time and thoughts. Which then leads me down the rabbit warren of thoughts of R. Would i be able to accept their friendships and family inclusion, when at the moment i would feel they are two-faced?


Same dynamic with mutual friends. They are in a bad situation, trying to juggle both sides. Those that were closer to her will lean towards her. Those that were to you will lean towards you. This typically will break along gender lines. Unless a mutual male friend has interest in her, for obvious reasons. Go easy on them, they are doing the best that they can. But yes, I would be very guarded around mutual friends because likely anything you say will go right back to her.

Originally Posted by Chaz70

Anyway an update on my sitch:

Since Christmas, we have had a lot of family time together, Boxing Day we went to friends and spent the day and evening with them, it was fun and relaxing for everyone, lots of laughs and anyone observing would in no way believe we are leading IHS lives. From my perspective, i didn't really think about the moments of the day, i just enjoyed them and carried myself with PMA, and without probably realizing that i was being the person i'm meant to be. I guess this is a result of adopting DB, and detaching from analyzing every interaction.


DBing works....even if not to save your MR! Good job here. My dynamic was very similar to yours. It can be confusing for the LBS and cause you to pursue and pressure. Stay the course and believe in the process.

Originally Posted by Chaz70

NYE passed without incident, we allowed the kids to stay up to see NY in, perhaps this allowed a reduced focus on my W and I to do what we have always done, which is to spend with Friends, enjoy drinks, kiss and hug etc. Instead it was hugs for the kids, but nothing from W. I didn't attempt to hug or embrace my W. And that was that.


Good here again! NO pursuit and pressure means NO pursuit and pressure! In my sitch, my W bowed out at the last minute to going over to some friends. So there was no temptation to lean in. But for obvious reasons that would be the wrong move.

Originally Posted by Chaz70

New Years Day, my W went into cleaning mode. She has done this in a passive aggressive way before BD, a not so subtle notice to me that she wants things done because my way of doing it wasn't right, or she was taking herself away to re enable distance between us. Who knows?


Slight 2x4 here. No mnd reading! She wanted to clean so she cleaned. No need to read more into it.

Originally Posted by Chaz70

I'm fairly certain she has questioned her decision to BD me, maybe just through subconsciously absorbing different behavioral patterns,however nothing explicit and am mindful that i shouldn't really read anything into it and this has borne out in the very little interaction we've had since.


She wouldn't be human, but a robot, if she didn't. But again, mind reading will get you no where. How do you avoid mind reading? Focus on you! Right now you have a microscope hyper focused on her. Take your focus off her and put it on you.

Originally Posted by Chaz70

All in all i recognise i'm not detaching as much as i should, but happy when i look back at the old me and see how much DBing i've employed since and the differences i notice in myself as i handle this roller coaster. I'm a bit more measured rather reacting on emotions which is a huge step for me.


Detachment is a process, not a task. You don't just flip a switch. However, I love this paragraph! This paragraph is all about YOU. And that is what you should be focusing on now.

Last edited by Steve85; 01/03/20 02:36 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
C70 #2878946 01/06/20 11:05 AM
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Thanks Steve, i needed that!!

I can see your sitch turned round relatively quickly. Do you recall any behaviours from your W, that in hindsight led you to believe there was a chance at MR 2.0. The reason i ask, is that in DR book Michelle asks for me to notate DB techniques i'm employing and to record what impact they are having, which i find to be in conflict of changing things just for myself.
How do you maintain detachment and yet seemingly have to engage enough in W behaviour to take note or be aware of potential thoughts/actions from W of R. Or is it simply that we are becoming so attuned to our situations that sub-consciously we are doing it anyway?!

I don't know about anyone else, but i come on here to update myself on everyones sitch, i don't feel i can offer any wise words yet but my support for everyone here is true. I find it cathartic in a way, knowing that we are all feeling the same, we want to better ourselves and we want to be the best people we can be.


Had a small interaction with PIL(first since BD) whilst dropping off kids for the day (last day of Christmas Holidays). In the back of my mind i am thinking they have erased me from their lives, as mentioned in above post, consequently i was painfully aware of my outward demeanor and that i appeared aloof as opposed to being positive, happy. I was annoyed with myself. I guess i need to remember this for the next time!





C70 #2878968 01/06/20 01:48 PM
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No, I saw no behaviors from her to suggest MR 2.0. There were moments where she seemed unsure of herself as far as moving forward with her plan. But words ("I am done!") and actions (starting multiple dating profiles on online dating sites, sending nude photos to EA OM, etc). Through all of January '18, and most of Feb '18, I prepared myself for the worst.

I get questions like this a lot. Two things happened that I think really turned my sitch around. The second one by itself wouldn't have worked, but in concert with the first one it helped reinforce.

The 1st was that a friend of hers at church pushed really hard for us to attend a marriage retreat with them. This friend and her husband had no idea that we were going through a rough patch, it was just a yearly marriage retreat and they really wanted us to go. My W got bombarded for several hours over 2 days about marriage in relation to the teachings in the Bible. At first it made her feel "stuck". But I think it also made her realize that with the changes I had been making she really needed to give the marriage another shot.

The 2nd was she agreed to attend counseling with me. It started as IC, but the IC suggested she come along for the first session. That way if it transitioned into MC she wouldn't feel like it was one-sided with the IC having heard only my side. She ended up going every time I went, though I would characterize the first several sessions as IC for me with her present. I think that showed her that I was serious about making positive changes in myself. The IC with her present really turned into a "what is wrong with Steve85 and how do we fix it", with the exception of one session where my W was the focus and the IC really delved deeply into some emotional territory from my W's past. But other than that it was IC for me with her present. And then it transitioned after the marriage retreat into MC as my W started to say she was wanting to stay.

I wouldn't dwell too much on the taking note of what works and doesn't. To me that is more of an organic thing. Concentrate on DBing well, then when you get to a point where you are GAL, 180ing, and becoming emotionally detached, start taking regular assessments. Say every month.

The problem is that sometimes things are working when it looks like it isn't. "I did a good job being detached and my W is getting angry about it!" Many, if they assessed things on a day-by-day basis would say "detachment isn't working!" When in reality it is. The anger is because the WAW is feeling the loss of control over the LBH that she has become used to. See how easy it is to misread if it is working?

Also, most LBSs struggle with DBing until several weeks or even months have elapsed. Really what GAL, 180s and detachment is meant for is to fix your frame of mind, get you into a place where you aren't smothering and pushing the WAS away, and just to start living your life. Whether a DB technique works or not isn't about how it is affecting your WAW but how it is affecting you! LBSs find that once they start DBing well, the feeling of immediate doom, gloom and hopelessness eases, regardless of what their WAS is doing.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
C70 #2879154 01/07/20 02:14 PM
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Hi all,

We have mediation booked for Jan 20th, which is being driven at my W behest. I'm making her to the leg work on how she wants things to pan out. She has just sent me the below e-mail:

"Hi

I was wondering whether you wanted to have a chat before our mediation appointment about how we can possibly sort things out in terms of house / finances.

I appreciate we need guidance, that is what the mediation is for however the appointments are expensive so whatever we can sort together, amicably without the need of extra appointments would probably benefit both of us….

If you want to leave it to mediation that’s fine – I just thought I would ask the question…."


So far we have split finances 50/50 in terms of household bills/mortgage/insurances etc and pay these from our Joint Account. We have had the House valued and she has indicated that she wishes to buy me out of the house (although i have no idea how she will fund it, but not my problem), however i'm hesitant to agree or even discuss this in view of my wish to R.

My immediate thoughts on responding to this would be leave it until our first mediation, and then discuss after (if at all amicably) what we can to sort as much as we can.
However, i don't want to impede or damage any potential for R by replying from an emotional state just now so would welcome any thoughts, guidance etc that would help me acknowledge, that recognises the path she wishes to follow for now. I'm starting to question whether i should just throw in the towel, give up......but i don't want to.





C70 #2879158 01/07/20 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaz70

So far we have split finances 50/50 in terms of household bills/mortgage/insurances etc and pay these from our Joint Account. We have had the House valued and she has indicated that she wishes to buy me out of the house (although i have no idea how she will fund it, but not my problem), however i'm hesitant to agree or even discuss this in view of my wish to R.


You can't stop the D. Unfortunately it only takes one party to make D happen. Your attitude should be "I don't want this, but I know you do and I'm not going to stand in your way." So you don't help with the process, but you don't impede it either. So if she wants to discuss the settlement then discuss it. The conversation won't be any easier in front of a mediator. A mediator is only there to help you come to an agreement, they are not an MC and they are not going to try and stop the process. So if you can come to an agreement without a mediator then it would be in your best interests to do so.

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However, i don't want to impede or damage any potential for R by replying from an emotional state just now so would welcome any thoughts, guidance etc that would help me acknowledge, that recognises the path she wishes to follow for now. I'm starting to question whether i should just throw in the towel, give up......but i don't want to.


Letting the D happen is not throwing in the towel. You need to take a long-term view. Potential recon is way down the road, possibly years. A lot will happen between now and then, possibly including D. Giving her time and space and allowing her to pursue D is not giving up, it actually may be the most effective thing you can do to help her get in a position where she might start missing you and working on herself.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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