Being angry does not equate to detachment. Nor lead to detachment. Detachment is almost a LACK of emotion, therefore it cannot be gained through emotion. Does that make sense?
Being angry signifies being attached. Being sad. Being upset. Being happy.
I've often put it this way. You are at the stove, cooking dinner. He comes in and says "I have something to tell you." You turn and face him. He says; "Last week I met with 7 women, and had an orgy in a hotel room with them." You, non-chalantly say: "Oh. Okay." Then turn back to stirring your green beans.
You don't react. You don't cry. You don't yell. You don't scream. You don't tell him to leave. Etc. The ability to not react, not let it affect you, not make it make you stop what you are doing, etc....THAT is detachment.
It doesn't mean that there are not consequences for his actions. After dinner, and cleaning up afterward. You can tell him: "Based on what you told me early you will be sleeping somewhere other than the MB for the time-being." Then go on about your evening.
Please go back and read the detachment thread.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Being angry does not equate to detachment. Nor lead to detachment. Detachment is almost a LACK of emotion, therefore it cannot be gained through emotion. Does that make sense?
Being angry signifies being attached. Being sad. Being upset. Being happy.
I've often put it this way. You are at the stove, cooking dinner. He comes in and says "I have something to tell you." You turn and face him. He says; "Last week I met with 7 women, and had an orgy in a hotel room with them." You, non-chalantly say: "Oh. Okay." Then turn back to stirring your green beans.
You don't react. You don't cry. You don't yell. You don't scream. You don't tell him to leave. Etc. The ability to not react, not let it affect you, not make it make you stop what you are doing, etc....THAT is detachment.
It doesn't mean that there are not consequences for his actions. After dinner, and cleaning up afterward. You can tell him: "Based on what you told me early you will be sleeping somewhere other than the MB for the time-being." Then go on about your evening.
Please go back and read the detachment thread.
Hi Steve, Thanks for continuing to help me on this. I think I get what the state of detachment looks like, but am struggling with how to get there. For me, in the past, I've reached that state in previous break-ups by focusing on the bad in the R and the person. Like: (1) This guy is an a-hole and I'm really upset about it, to (2) This guy is an a-hole, why am I bothering to spend my time and energy thinking about him? I'm better off without him ... and that state of mind, at least in the past, has helped me to get to really not caring. The ex BF I was referencing prior was someone I worked with, so I couldn't cut off contact, but I was able to detach to the point that I really didn't give a s**t that he was back with his ex even when I saw him every day and saw the two of them in action (she also worked at the same place, super healthy! We were all young.) I moved on, no big deal.
I know if I focused on all his bad qualities and actions, I could probably convince myself of #2-- he's a jerk and I'm better off without him-- and then go about the process that has worked for me in the past... though maybe it is impossible because being married as long as we have and with the two kids I will just never be able to fully feel I'm better off without him.
I look at that dang detachment thread every day. It isn't happening for me, at least not yet.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
I've often put it this way. You are at the stove, cooking dinner. He comes in and says "I have something to tell you." You turn and face him. He says; "Last week I met with 7 women, and had an orgy in a hotel room with them." You, non-chalantly say: "Oh. Okay." Then turn back to stirring your green beans.
Steve-- so I had a dream last night that H told me he was on a date night with multiple women (weirdly he had borrowed my pants (??) and got a food stain on them, and I'd asked where the stain came from). He told me oh yeah, I was at date night, named random people he had been talking to and spilled something on my pants. I didn't care except about my pants, and then also felt like I *should* care that he was telling me that but didn't.
Does that count as a step in the right direction?
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
Wow may ! I tried to post other night and got error message . H walked in room so I had to put away phone so he doesn’t see DB site .
You are one tough cookie for somehow maintaining your composure with everything . Many hugs !!!!
Distance yourself . When he decided to go to another restaurant . You responded to most of his texts . Put some space in between or cut back . He’s confused . The longer he has you on the hook . The longer limbo is going to be .
H is still in contact with OP . He’s admitted this . You are not his friend when theres OP. You do not have to be angry . Detach and distance . More distance then you think you can do . You are the prize to be chased .He’s playing H most of the time . Sitting on couch with you . Asking about dinner . Messaging frequently. But still seeing and talking to OP.
Look at actions . This goes both ways . Good and bad . This was hard for me to realize . I had to look at bad actions as well .Yes he moved back in master bedroom . Yes he hasn’t moved out . Increased time together . But he also has continued to talk to OP . Meet with OP .
Friday night, H initiated sex (again in the middle of the night, didn't last very long, seemed conflicted about it afterwards (I wasn't planning on reciprocating but got taken by surprise). Saturday night, we went to a party and came home late. He closed the bedroom door (sure sign from the past of wanting sex since we usually sleep with our bedroom door open), then suddenly left and went to sleep on the couch in the office. I said nothing. He left his pillow there in the morning.
Last night, after I went to bed, he came into the room and wanted an R talk. I tried to listen and validate but I did get sucked in somewhat. The gist is:
-- he's anxious and unhappy, this limbo is killing him, his IC says he needs to make a decision -- he is still angry/sad about the past (cried when talking about me rejecting him sexually, angry that *now* I'm wanting to focus on our R after being consumed with the kids and ignoring our emotional/sexual bond for all these years) -- he is in love with the AP and can't imagine having that kind of R with me again -- he feels like if he tried to R with me, why would it be any different than it was before -- he feels like he's been living the life I wanted, not his own life (for 16 years) -- he has tried to cut off contact with the AP but they just can't because their emotional connection is so strong. They have tried several times since he told me about her in August but it doesn't last. --She is really unhappy about what is going on and is basically waiting for him to "get his situation together." He repeated he is actively in love with her and if I could see in his head I would not want to be with him. -- he doesn't understand why I would want to be with him anyway. He really leaned on this a lot. -- he doesn't believe I could ever forgive him (said that a big part of him not wanting to try is because he worries I would hold this over his head for the rest of our R). He also doesn't believe he could forgive himself. He made this bed, our R is irrevocably broken, he doesn't want to miss the opportunity with AP. -- but, he also says that this is not about her, it is about us. -- he repeated his fantasy of him living next door or in a mother-in-law unit WITH AP and us all getting along. He thinks the kids are resilient and we can make this work. (I had a hard time validating this part-- definitely rolled my eyes and said I thought it was impossible and BS rather than saying I understood that is what he wanted. I tried to recover.) -- his IC keeps telling him we get to "do whatever we want" in terms of developing what kind of co-parenting R we have in the future. He wants to go down this path but he isn't saying he is ready to pull the trigger quite yet to actual separation. He wants us to talk about what it might look like.
I listened and validated the best I could to the above. I said: -- I asked him what kind of person did he want to be and what kind of story did he want to tell about his life -- I told him I believed we could get through this and build a better marriage, not like the last one -- For me, I felt I could forgive him with work for what he did to me in our marriage... but that I didn't think I could forgive him-- at least not where I am now-- if he broke up our family and did that to the kids. I could see myself able to be there *if* I felt like we had both truly tried to make the M work. -- I know he feels like he has tried, tried years ago, is even trying now... but I don't think any of this is worthwhile or trying UNTIL the AP is out of the picture. I was very firm in stating my belief that we can't work on our relationship in a meaningful way-- whether towards a new MR or towards his vision of best friends/co-parents-- until his head was on our R and he went NC with AP. -- I said I was not prepared to remain friends with him if he left, especially if I felt he left without actually trying to give our R 100%. I don't think he believes me on this. --If he chose to go NC with AP, I would be willing to help him as I knew it would be very difficult. However, we would need to build in some transparency measures so that I could trust he actually was going NC. --I asked him to think logically about what was going on and his choices, removing emotion from it. (I know I shouldn't have done this. I was definitely arguing for working on the MR, using his usual love of logical solutions as a means to get him to see my side.
Where we left it-- he slept in the office. We talked again this morning, more of the same. He got upset again about what I had done to him in the past (rejecting him sexually) and repeated why should he believe this time would be different, he finally is in a place where that doesn't hurt him and he feels he could move on and I'm opening the cage door to try to make him come back and promising it will be different this time. I said I understood why he felt like that and if he made the choice to R, it would have to be his decision and he would have to have faith that we could build a new MR. He again leaned on why would I want to be with him anyway.
I said (functioning on two nights of very, very little sleep, so forgive me) that he was underestimating the effect on the kids and did he want this to be the story of his life (and theirs if they ended up together)-- that he cheated on his wife with a 33 year old and broke up his marriage and family because of it. I repeated my belief that this wasn't trying until the affair was ended and they went NC, blocked phone numbers, etc., and that I didn't believe we could actually work on any sort of relationship together until he went NC with her and could focus on our R. I also said again that I did not imagine being friends with him after, especially if he was with AP, and that he was not thinking of the leverage he'd lose when he walked away-- things that I'm willing to do for him as my H but that I would have no reason to do once he is not. (This includes a major trip he wants to take with the girls, which I'm open to if we're together but if we are not I don't see a reason to let him take them for more than a week.)
We left it there. He agreed to talk to my coach-- i said it might be helpful for him to get the perspective of someone trained in affairs/infidelity rather than just his IC (he hasn't told anyone about all of this so no-one to talk to about it except for me and the AP, who he says he doesn't talk to about us because he doesn't want to.
HELP.
Me (46) H (42) M:14 T:18, D9 & D11 4/19 - 12/19: series of escalating BDs 9/20 - present: R and piecing
:He knows what he is doing is wrong and all that BS about what you did to him in the past is how he justifies it . The AP is a fantasy. This is something I know about as I once had a long distance EA like that. Once you get in to the reality and logistics of it, it all falls apart.
That said, he has to find this stuff out for himself. I can't even imagine dealing with all that but logically, I would say he needs to feel the consequences of actions, which means you are no longer his friend, and there will be a visitation schedule re the kids. He is going to have to lose a lot before he can let go of the fantasy, and it is a fantasy. It is going to suck hard, but IMO, it's time to call his bluff. You know from DB that debating and reasoning don't work. May, I am so sorry you're going through this. But I would read Bluwave's threads. She dealt with the same thing and it worked out for her. If you haven't read up on love vs. limerence, do so.
You don't deserve to have to put up with a H who lives in your house while claiming to love another woman.
One other thing, re that BS about if you saw what was in his head, you wouldn't want to be with him: he wants YOU to release him so he can walk away guilt free. Don't fall for that. Make HIM make the decision to walk away from his family.
So he said nothing new. And the cockamamie part about living with AP and everyone getting along shows me he is going to try to cake-eat. I am almost 100% certain this is about feeling stuck due to child-support (and possibly alimony), otherwise I think he'd probably already be gone.
Go back to the plan. GAL. 180s. Detach. And just give him time and space to figure his crap out.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Agree with Steve. I know you're too involved to see this but how ridiculous is that. Ask him if he'd be your friend and live next door as a parenting buddy if it were you involved with or living with some 33 year old stud out of state that you were in love with? Seriously, WTF are people thinking.
