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Core #2874595 12/04/19 05:50 PM
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Almost through all the material. Whats blocking me is everyone I've talked to in person says to kill her with kindness. Be the best husband and dad possible. Give gifts and repent. Compliment and build her confidence. I hear this from my counselor as well as someone who was on the brink of divorce themselves. That all seems to be from the heart and DB seems to be tactics. Do we have success stories around people whom did the opposite of some DB rules and pursued, etc? I know someone who met the OM in person and scared them away permanently.

One of the reasons I think W went wayward was the lack of attention, no spontaneity, kids came first. Shouldn't these be my 180s? I have the home court advantage. I see her in person daily, she can see I'm a great dad and I can beat the guy at his own game. I know its all against the DB rules but how do we know which path is better? A coworker I console in got a gift to give W. It feels like the right thing to do.

Lastly, should I confront OM? Anyone else survive this with kids as young as mine (D4, S1). I know being M and with known anxiety, I'll be lucky to get 50/50 custody.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
Core #2874597 12/04/19 06:01 PM
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So when you got married did your vows say “in good times and bad” or did it say “when things get $hitty then you need to compete with OM”?

You can do things like being a great father without pursuit. Pursuit never works and you should consider getting a new counselor.

Most courts will award 50/50 custody.

DB is away of life and no different tactics then pursuing on buying gifts.

Trust the process.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
Core #2874598 12/04/19 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
Literally ever person I've talked to in person says to ... Be the best husband possible. Give gifts
I have never seen that work when there is OM involved. It will be seen as weak and decrease your attraction.

Like I said, the rules have changed.

You have to be a strong, independent man. Facing your fear head on.



Go back to the link I first supplied. There are around 1000 quotes. Read them all. As you do, Ask yourself, do I agree with this? If you say "No", then you really dig deep and question your belief system. I also strongly suggest that you start a personal digital notebook to collect info you want to reference again in the future. Keeping the original posters name with the quote is useful as well. Try to categorize them from the beginning. Big topics like parenting. subtopic like telling the children etc

Pay close attention to the posters names. LH19, AnotherStander, Steve85 are currently posting great advise. Sandi2 has been here forever and she passes out stellar advise. Coach and PuppyDogTails both got their marriages back on track and helped many others do the same. We all should aspire to behaves as these two did. AllenA and RobX saved their marriages. They both did it in completely different ways. Understand the difference in how these four did it. Curtis7 did an excellent job spelling out all his options. It is in quotes9.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Core #2874604 12/04/19 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
I know being M and with known anxiety, I'll be lucky to get 50/50 custody.
What you believe will manifest itself. Challenge and change your limiting beliefs.

Right now, be 100%. Take every opportunity to be a great dad.


What state do you live in?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Core #2874606 12/04/19 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
Almost through all the material. Whats blocking me is everyone I've talked to in person says to kill her with kindness. Be the best husband and dad possible. Give gifts and repent. Compliment and build her confidence. I hear this from my counselor as well as someone who was on the brink of divorce themselves.


I hate to talk like the big tough guy but you need it right now. That is beta b!+ch behavior. She's cheating and rejecting you and you're thinking your repentance or gifts will change that? No. Your behavior got you here and it took a while. It is not going away overnight but you start making positive changes today.

If you have lost 7 pounds and you were light to begin with I'd advise setting up a health plan that involves sports, gym activity (weights), and eating lots of good foods.

DB should be from the head because of the heart. Is it tactics? Maybe. Obviously you had a relationship failure that brought you to this point so I think you, like all of us, are needing to learn new ways of having relationships. At some point in your life someone taught you how to have a relationship, can you tell me where you learned this?

Is buying a gift and killing her with kindness to make her come back to you tactics? Yes.

Do not confront OM. Even if you were 100 lbs heavier and pure muscle, is it worth going to jail over? Is it worth getting hurt over? Is it worth giving OM the satisfaction? No, no, no.

Be the man you want to be. Don't pursue someone who has betrayed you, who has no respect for you (at least at the moment). Be kind to her in a detached way, not in a pandering, pathetic, sucking up to her to win her back way that she will see right through.

Anxiety is nothing you can't control. I'm anxious about the AJ/Ruiz fight this weekend. So what. You're a good dude and everyone deals with some crap in their lives, it's how we deal with it that matters.

I hope R2C drops in and gives you some links to read on attraction, but it definitely doesn't work the way you think it does. You're going to need some growth there.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Core #2874608 12/04/19 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Core
I'm loving all the advice. Here's where I'm stuck before I implement going dark. Literally ever person I've talked to in person says to kill her with kindness.


Believe me, EVERY LAST ONE OF US tried this initially! It doesn't work!

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Be the best husband and dad possible.


You've been BD'd, she fired you as H. But yes, do be the best dad possible.

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Give gifts and repent.


Do not give gifts. Do not apologize over and over again, it just looks weak and pathetic and resolves in her mind that you really are to blame for everything. If you've already apologized for your shortcomings, then let that be it. No need to keep repeating yourself.

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I hear this from my counselor as well as someone who was on the brink of divorce themselves.


Your counselor and friends are probably knowledgeable on fixing problems in a struggling marriage, but they are not experts on a broken, post-BD marriage. We are. You've been BD'd, that puts you in a completely different category. Your W is DONE. She does not want you to "fix things", she wants out. All of the above behavior works in a relationship that is on the rocks but still salvageable, but it does not work when it's broken. Steve has a great analogy- if your car is running bad you can do maintenance on it to get it back in tip-top shape. But if you've blown the engine, then all the maintenance in the world isn't going to do squat. Your marriage has a blown engine.

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Do we have success stories around people whom did the opposite of some DB rules and pursued, etc?


Only if it happened before BD. I don't know of a case where pursuit brought a WAS back after BD.

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One of the reasons I think she went wayward was the lack of attention, no spontaneity, kids came first. Shouldn't these be my 180s?


Again, is your car (marriage) in need of routine maintenance? Or is the motor already blown? 180's like those do not work on the latter. Do you read Sandi's posts much? One of the things she talks about a lot is the utter lack of respect a WW has for her H. Once BD happens, the WW hates her H, and may even find him repulsive. Like she can hardly stand to talk to him or even be in the same room. Every attempt at appeasing her actually disgusts her, she looks at him as weak and pathetic. Zero value, zero respect. How do you get respect back from a WW? You leave her alone, you stand up for yourself, you don't take her sh**. You get out and GAL and that shows her you have value to yourself and to others.

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If she is having an EA, I have the home court advantage. I see her in person daily, she can see I'm a great dad and I can beat the guy at his own game.


You can't compete with an EA. With you comes all of the daily problems and challenges of life. An EA can be whatever she imagines it to be- riding into the sunset on a white stallion with a bare-chested he-man. If you think showing her how awesome you are at cleaning house, taking out the trash, doing laundry and caring for the kids can compete with that, well you're wrong. It's a classic LBS mistake though, doubling down on beta behavior when you should be finding your alpha self.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander

You can't compete with an EA. With you comes all of the daily problems and challenges of life. An EA can be whatever she imagines it to be- riding into the sunset on a white stallion with a bare-chested he-man. If you think showing her how awesome you are at cleaning house, taking out the trash, doing laundry and caring for the kids can compete with that, well you're wrong. It's a classic LBS mistake though, doubling down on beta behavior when you should be finding your alpha self.


This is gold. Core, DBing is counter-intuitive....but it is the only thing that has a chance of working.


M(52), W(53),D(17)
M-20, T-23 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
SteveLW #2874613 12/04/19 07:27 PM
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I would also like to add that you stop discussing your situation w/people. Choose one or two close friends to talk to and do not discuss the situation w/anyone else. The more you talk to people, the harder it will be for her to return to the marriage, if she so desires to do so later on.

Until these real life people walk a mile in your shoes and face what you are facing, then they need to step back. Trust me, right now gift giving from you is a no no. When a family is involved, we suggest purchasing something generic and have the children give it to the wayward spouse.

Until the affair is over and done with, you are on the back burner and you need to realize that you are number one. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start doings things for you and your children. Look at her as a roommate and nothing more and yes, only clean up messes that you or your children make. Don't clean up her messes...after all, she fired you as a husband.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Core #2874633 12/04/19 09:05 PM
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Hey Core-- just want to say i feel what you're going through, and i know it [censored]. However, having been through it myself, i can also tell you that there is hope, and that there is light for you at the end of the tunnel regardless of how your MR turns out. You are being followed here by alot of the savvy veterans on this board, and you are getting some great advice, which i hope you give your fullest consideration. If you DB vigorously and properly, your worst case scenario is you emerge from this single, but, also, as a much stronger, confident, and, indeed, happier person overall. And maybe, just maybe, if your WW comes to see the new you as the real you (and no faking, here, you GAL and make the 180s/changes for you, for real, or else they do you no good AND she will see right through your subterfuge) AND if she also feels the sting of loss of you/family and ultimately comes around to feeling both a) respect for you and b) real remorse and contrition for what she has done... then maybe you will eventually be able to re-build your MR. But even if your MR is not salvageable, following the DB-ing rules and attending to your own self-improvement will yield huge dividends in whatever endeavors and relationships await you going forward.

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One of the reasons I think she went wayward was the lack of attention, no spontaneity, kids came first. Shouldn't these be my 180s? If she is having an EA, I have the home court advantage. I see her in person daily, she can see I'm a great dad and I can beat the guy at his own game. He was sweet talking I'm sure and mailed her a gift. I know its all against the DB rules but how do we know which path is better?


I was exactly where you are. My W and i were in a sex-starved marriage, and she had suffered through years of neglect from me (and no, i wasn't all to blame for our sitch... just owning my side of the street, here). No spontaneity, no flirting, no dating, we were ALL about the kids (even moreso than some other families because we had two with special needs), we weren't even kissing goodbye in the morning as we left for work, were often sleeping in separate beds, and, in fact, it was a stretch to say we were even friends. The marriage was about as dead as it could be. And then sweet-talking OM happens along, showering her with attention, presents, etc, and she EATS. IT. UP. When you are in that situation, when you hear your W say "I feel like i am dying inside", or "I just wanted some love and warmth and to feel cared for", and you realize the harm your neglect has done and see some other guy making time with your wife by providing the attention you had been denying her, it is almost impossible to stop yourself from jumping in and wanting to text, flirt, pursue, buy gifts, etc etc etc, and it seems logical to our male minds that that is the solution to our previous neglect... BUT IT IS NOT! By the time our wives have reached this point, they are done with us... as one poster said above, accurately so, it is likely even to the point that we disgust them, and any advances or pursuit we make disgust them even more (or at least anger them-- "Why did you never do this before?!?!) It is possible, at least for a while, that your 180's and GALs may even meet with this reaction from your WW-- "Why did you never do these things before? Why only now when we are apart?".. which is one of the reasons you need to make sure you are doing them FOR YOURSELF and that you stay committed to doing them FOR YOURSELF no matter what your W, in her waywardness, might say in response. To the extent she ever comes back, or starts to believe your changes are genuine, then her reaction MIGHT change... but you need to be doing them for YOU in order to have any hope that they eventually have some positive effect with her. But in the meantime-- NO PURSUING. My favorite quote from this site: "She will never find you more attractive than when you are walking away."

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Almost through all the material. Whats blocking me is everyone I've talked to in person says to kill her with kindness. Be the best husband and dad possible. Give gifts and repent. Compliment and build her confidence. I hear this from my counselor as well as someone who was on the brink of divorce themselves.


As others have posted, you are in a different situation. The car with the blown engine is a GREAT analogy. You will be hard-pressed to find counselors who are well-versed in this situation and who will counsel anything BUT pursuit. Even my own counselor, who had a VERY good grasp of affair addiction and selfishness and such WRT wayward wives, STILL counseled me to find opportunities to form some happy memories with my W... to go out socially and do fun things. It is tempting to try to compete with OM--- the thinking goes: "How can we ever get back together if we don't do some fun things together or have happy, flirty, moments... our life is all bills and responsibilities and kids, while OM is none of that... How can i compete with that?" To which the answer is: You CANT. You can never compete with the fantasy of life with OM because it IS a fantasy. She will always paint it in her mind to be superior to what she has or can have with you. Now, in my case (and my case was unique, for several reasons), the fits and starts we made into MC, and the socializing we did to try to reconnect was, on some level, beneficial. She did get to see, close-up, that i was a changed man and for the better, and we did have some fun times and she even started to "remember" some of the older fun times we'd had that she (as all WAW's and WWs do) had forgotten. And this did allow us to reconnect and did at least re-establish the "like" in our lives , although I think in this case that the particulars in my W's background and upbringing and faith and such played a role, because I've seen just as many cases where this sort of thing backfires. Either way, however, it was not until I had finally had enough, told her to get out by the end of the week and completely walked away that she finally and completely broke down, cut the cord with OM, and threw herself 100% into repairing our MR. And I am convinced that had I not done that, that we never would have reached the point where we could truly reconcile. And my MC, who is, i am convinced, the best MC on the planet, agreed. So, while, on some level, i think the socializing and cohabitation might have been helpful (and perhaps even necessary, in my case, for a resolution on the timeline that we saw-- about 16 months), the TRULY necessary elements to complete reconcilliation were 1) My own self-improvement and re-discovery of my alpha persona (both of which she eventually came around to understanding were genuine) and 2) My complete detachment and rope-dropping on my part and my walking away. We were blessed to be guided into just about the best timeline-- i still firmly believe by divine providence-- that we could have experienced, but the reconcilliation could still have happened without all of the dating/friendliness/etc, but absolutely could NOT have happened without the GAL, detaching, and rope-dropping on my part. It's even possible that had i dropped my own bomb right away on discovery of the EA, that that could have headed off the A becoming deeper and shortened the time-frame that way as well-- this is one thing Sandi2 believes and has stated multiple times. Unfortunately, we LBHs are almost never in the right frame of mind to respond effectively in that fashion. Which brings me to:

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Lastly, should I confront OM? Anyone else survive this with kids as young as mine (D4, S1). I know being M and with known anxiety, I'll be lucky to get 50/50 custody.


This is a very controversial issue, with widely varying opinions, and is also, obviously, somewhat fact-specific. In your case, with small children, you obviously don't want to do anything that might get you arrested. Only you know what you can handle, and under what situations you can maintain control-- both of which are your primary concerns here. Also of concern is whether or not you think it might "help" in any regard... either you or the situation. For you, what do you hope to achieve by confronting? A confidence boost? Feeling more alpha? For the situation-- is there a lever over the OM (as in, is he already married with a family of his own? Did he take advantage of your wife in a way that would be legally inappropriate/actionable) that might actually scare him off? In my own case, the situation was somewhat peculiar-- the OM had been a good friend of mine, was friends with my boys, and was, like me, a volunteer coach on the HS football team our boys played on. As such, i was determined to confront him, let him know i knew what was going on, what i thought of him, and, in fact, warn him to stay the hell away from my wife (I should add here that my own boys were 17 and 18 at the time, and custody, etc was not going to be a worry). I felt it was important for my growing self- confidence, and also to demonstrate to my W that i wasn't going to back down and, if it came down to it, for my boys to know i stood up for myself. I will tell you this, however-- at the end of the day it did not really help in any significant regard. It did make me feel "better" about myself, as if i was stronger, but, as it turned out, it did not result in OM leaving my W alone (he continued to contact her, and she continued to entertain contact, for months afterward, although unbeknownst to me), and in addition to the few "positive" feelings and emotions i got out of it, it also brought back a whole whole lot of hurtful and dark emotions and feelings that i had worked hard to, by that point, mostly get over. Finally, my W, rather than being impressed by my "stand" for her at that time, was upset that OM might have been "hurt" by the episode, and that i had confronted him in a somewhat public place and that his son (also age 17) had been nearby (she was mistakenly under the presumption that dirtbag's son was not aware of the affair-- which he was). Sandi2, I believe, would voice her belief that confrontation can create an "us against the world" mentality with WW and OM, but I am not sure how much more damaging that is than the existing dynamic, and, obviously, you look less like a wimp if you stand up to the dude. Idk... opinions vary and it is a tricky dynamic, at best. At any rate, in my sitch, not a very productive course of action, aside from the bit of ego boost i got from facing the guy and looking him in the eye, and making him believe that i was more than ready to fight him... and seeing him back down, at least then and there. So, yeah... it's a really tricky issue, not cut and dried on either side, IMO... largely depends on you and your particular sitch. And i know i rambled alot in posting that, but i thought since i had "been there done that" I'd walk you through my own thought process and experience.

Anyway, i tend to write novels for posts... just the way i typically write, puke everything out there and then go back and clean it up if i have time... but it's heartfelt. Hope my experience, and the experiences of the others here, can help you out.

Good luck! Hang in there! My thoughts and prayers go with you!

Last edited by hoosjim; 12/04/19 09:14 PM.

H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18

"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7

"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
job #2874670 12/05/19 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by LH19
So when you got married did your vows say “in good times and bad” or did it say “when things get $hitty then you need to compete with OM”?


Good point!

Originally Posted by Ready2Change


Pay close attention to the posters names. LH19, AnotherStander, Steve85 are currently posting great advise. Sandi2 has been here forever and she passes out stellar advise. Coach and PuppyDogTails both got their marriages back on track and helped many others do the same. We all should aspire to behaves as these two did. AllenA and RobX saved their marriages. They both did it in completely different ways. Understand the difference in how these four did it. Curtis7 did an excellent job spelling out all his options.



Excellent, thank you R2C for continuing to provide support here. I've read about half so far and continuing on.



Originally Posted by ovrrnbw


I hate to talk like the big tough guy but you need it right now. That is beta b!+ch behavior. She's cheating and rejecting you and you're thinking your repentance or gifts will change that? No. Your behavior got you here and it took a while. It is not going away overnight but you start making positive changes today.


This whole post was great. You and the others really got me head to a good place today. Nothing wrong with the direct approach. Helped me get through my job in good shape.

@Anotherstander
I agree with Steve85, this was gold.

Originally Posted by job
I would also like to add that you stop discussing your situation w/people. Choose one or two close friends to talk to and do not discuss the situation w/anyone else. The more you talk to people, the harder it will be for her to return to the marriage, if she so desires to do so later on


That is a good point. Initially she had asked me not to tell anyone. Maybe she had this in her mind as well? Or perhaps she didn't want others to talk her away from her new fantasy.


H37, W37
D4, S2
ILYBNILWY 9/19
BD 9/19
EA discovered 10/19
Currently in limbo, no D or S process initiated
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