hello, I have been reading on this forum for a few months now. my story reads mush like every other LBS on here. so, I wont take up to mush space. BD was 05/09/2019. R33, M28, we are both 48, 5 Kids D23, S21,D15, and adopted D4 and S3. I have an idea what started her MLC. terrible abusive childhood, I discovered online EA one year ago, BD in may, found out she has had multiple PA since. wanted to reconcile in august, but still had PA. she moved out this week. I have never had a PA. I am guilty of online sexually innuendo, but never with the same person. inappropriate, yes I agree, now. but back then, I thought I was just being funny. she says I was having an affair every time I would make a comment on Facebook. I love my Wife dearly, I want her to come home. but, for now I am NC for now. I just don't want to see or talk to her. I know that I will because I want to see our three youngest that she took with her.
my question is this, I have no desire to be with any other women. I do not want to defile our marriage. I haven't been inteminte with her since 02/19. I do miss sex with her. but she is getting somewhere else while I wait for her. what should I do while I stand? I am so confused.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D32,S31
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
my question is this, I have no desire to be with any other women. I do not want to defile our marriage. I haven't been inteminte with her since 02/19. I do miss sex with her. but she is getting somewhere else while I wait for her.
what should I do while I stand? I am so confused.
Welcome & sorry you're here. What do you want to do while you stand? Not literally stand and wait! You've been given your "homework". Read more on what you can do. Definitely do things for YOU. Work on being the best version of YOU. Get back into hobbies you've forgotten about or start new ones. Keep busy!
Best to you.
~Never Give Up ~ 2019 Mar BD June BD Dec Aow/xgf 2020 Jan he wants D Feb he flys2 ow Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn Apr he leaves for work until Nov Oct D FINAL 2020 Living MY Happiest Life Ever
I am new here as well. Do the homework as stated above, focus on improving yourself and look for advice here as you are doing now. With the help of this board I have learned the importance of detachment not only for your own well being but also but also it's the best thing you can do to give your relationship a fighting chance. That's the fuel I use to keep me focused and on track.
As far as the sex thing goes I have been struggling with that as well....I had an opportunity for casual sex and I was going to take it because I said, good for the goose, good for the gander type thing. However when I was confiding in a friend he gave me some wonderful advice. He told me to flip a coin; heads - I have sex and Tails - I reject the sex. So we flipped a coin and it was Tails - reject the sex. My friend asked me how I felt now that the decision was made for me, I told him I was relieved! So obviously I was not ready to take that leap. Whatever you decide make sure you are ready and can live with your decision there is no going back after if you make the wrong decision.
Sorry you are here, I hope you weather her storm till the black clouds break.
Last edited by job; 12/05/1903:11 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
thank you guys for responding with good advise. I cant believe we haven't be sexual for 10 months. she has, but I haven't. that makes it harder to deal with. typically after the WAS moves out, and no contact is followed, does the WAS start to come around, start trying to communicate, etc...
No contact on your part is to help you heal. If she's not been contact w/you, She will contact you when she either needs something or her curiosity gets the better of her. Don't worry too much about the no contact on her part. They all do it at first. They are too busy w/the euphoria of being free and doing all of those "exciting" things that they think that they missed out on as kids and teenagers.
Make a list of those things that you've not found time to start and/or complete and begin doing them one by one. It's a time to do those things that you love to do or even start some new activities. It's a time to focus on you and think back to the person you were prior to marriage. If you liked the person that you were before marriage, maybe it's time to think about making some changes.
Bottom line, leave her to her journey and focus on your journey. Time is on your side. The new year is around the corner and it's time to focus on creating some new memories along the way. Dig deeper for patience and keep that focus on you!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
She could be in a number of stages, anger, replay, depression and withdrawal. Keep in mind, that the stages are not linear. They bounce back and forth for a very long time. I venture to say that she has some anger as well as being in replay. Depression is the main ingredient of MLC and that will be there throughout the crisis. There will come a time when the deep, dark depression hits and that is when withdrawal is more evident.
Right now...focus on you and leave her to crisis. The crisis will take as long as it takes and she's the only one that will determine the length of time it takes.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hello again everyone, first thank you to every one that posts threads and thank you to those with the knowledge to share your wisdom.
My wife moved out two days before Thanksgiving. We have two Children we adopted D4 S3. they are my cousins who lost custody of them. they came to us almost three years ago. we also have three grown children D23, S21, D15. I made a point to hold to NC the minute she left. it has been two weeks and she will text me when she has something to say, or arrange time with the Babies. this past two weeks seems like it has been 2 years. she had to come to the house this morning because we had a home visit from the adoption agency. I stayed away from her, she did not look like herself, she looked worn out and haggard. it kills me to not tell her I love her and I will do what ever I need to get her back. I know that wont work, and only push her away.
up till the point where she made the decision to move out, there was touch and go moments. I know she still loves me and is confused about why she is feeling the way she is. but she will never admit it.
can I get some input on what I should see moving forward. I know I cant have any expectations, or ulterior motives. I know I have to make all the changes for myself. but is it out of line to wonder what other people in my situation seen, as they stood silent?
I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. You can changed your subject line within a thread at any time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
First, you need to keep the focus on you and your children.
Focusing on her, her behavior and trying to figure out what she will or will not do or say now or in the future is going to try you crazy. Each person in crisis will have similar behavior, but you need to remember that each person is unique in their childhood years, personality traits, and of course, what little coping skills that they have. That means, no one can actually predict exactly what your wife will do.
If your wife is doesn't look well, chances are she is burning the candle at both ends or hasn't been sleeping well. Many of them can't sleep at night because that is when the world is quiet and the little elves in their heads are playing reruns of about what they are doing and making her feel guilty and ashamed of the way she is treating you and her family. Also, she may be ill. Many of them tend to be ill quite often during most of the crisis.
She may begin to dress differently, opt to eat different food, play different music, get tattoos, body piercings, change up her appearance completely. She may even begin to talk the latest way that teenagers do. The phone will become a permanent appendage and she may be on it a lot.
She may go completely radio silent on you for a while. If she does, don't worry...she will be back around to touch base w/you when you least expect it. As for her contacting you via text and/or email, don't be too quick to respond back. Give it a couple of hours or the next day if it's not an emergency. If she should ask why you didn't respond back asap, you can simply state that you've been busy. I would suggest that you do not contact her unless it is an emergency or something child related.
You want her to miss you and she can't do that if you are contacting her. Give her plenty of space and time to truly miss you and the family.
As for you, keep that focus on you and your children. Dig deeper for patience and find plenty of GAL activities to help keep your mind focused elsewhere.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
a big adjustment for the LBS...Did the younger kids stay with her?
many MLCers become irresponsible parents
If they are using drugs, prescriptions or alcohol excessively they need to be watched Many get worse over time
as time went on, my XH became more irresponsible He came less to visit
He was once a good father, hard worker and totally sober man- he became an awful parent
They change into a different person they are unreachable
This is the time for you to look within, heal yourself, get spiritual, create a new life for you and the kids MLC takes a long time 2-7 years and some longer Therapy is helpful for LBS as this is a huge adjustment
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I know I am singing to the choir, but this cr@p is just, well....cr@p. I wake up everyday thinking I had a nightmare. this just does not seem fair. we have been through so much, good and bad, the last 30 years. this is not what neither of us had plans for. by nature, I am an analytical-problem solver. but this has me stumped. I want to blame God, but I know that he does not cause things to happen. I just want my d@mn Wife back!!!
Last edited by job; 12/11/1903:19 PM. Reason: edited language
I am sorry you find yourself here. It is really something, isn’t it? 30 years, plans, etc... and then this situation.
I know where you are. My W threw away me, her kids, her life, everything.
You have been forced onto a path you didn’t choose. The journey is difficult and very rewarding. Honest. This does get so much better.
Much of the advice will seem counterintuitive, not sound like the thing you should do. As you progress things will clear and will look brighter and better.
I am a problem solver as well. Most of us here are. This is one problem you cannot fix. You can’t fix her because you didn’t break her.
You can reframe or redefine the problem and fix yourself. Become the best version of you.
Focus on you. That is very sound advice that you’ll hear a lot of. Everything starts there.
You have the gift of time, use it well and use it wisely. Focus on you. Give W lots of space and time.
A MLCer is driven to run to escape from deep unrecognized torment and pain from long ago trauma usually inflicted from a person of authority in their younger years. Once a crisis is entered, it must run its course. The spouse you knew will change becoming the opposite of who you knew, the opposite of who they once were. They are trying to recapture their lost youth, relive those moments, to do all the things they didn’t get to. They will loose so much in the pursuit of their hollow dreams and fantasies.
Focus on you.
This process will take years. Much longer than you will want. I want my wife back too! Hmmm, I haven’t seen her in over two years. Well a couple of glimpses which lasted for a minute or so, and then back to that 18 year old teenager personality.
G, you focus on you. Push back denial. Find detachment and indifference. Work through the withdrawal of your addiction to W and your relationship. Let go of W, fear, attachment, etc... Find forgiveness.
All while choosing better not bitter. Remaining compassionate and gaining empathy. Healing your wounds and growing to the best version of yourself.
It sounds daunting. Really though it is just moving forward on your path, in your time, and in your order. It all starts with focus on you.
I hope we will talk soon.
Stay strong.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi Goonies. No extra words of wisdom except what has already been said by others. Focus on you. Be the best person you can be for you and your kids. Take all of the pressure off your WAS. When you see her, treat her like a neighbour that you like but don’t know well. Polite, upbeat and gracious. You WILL get through this regardless of the outcome and if you do the things that are being suggested, you will be amazed at how much better you will feel in a year. (((HUGS)))
It gets better as the others have said and if you use this time wisely for your growth...you will become happy again with or without her we Have all traveled the road...it gets better..then good..then great
hang in
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
I have been learning and applying the NC. it has been rough for me. it seems when we have to talk about the kids, she is still so vile and negative. last week she got dug in to me and it really affected me. one thing that I don't agree with, W and D15 have become BFF, in turn, I am the Devil. W acts like she is 15. W moved out a month ago and already she is trying to paint me the deadbeat D. she insisted that she keep the adopted babies. I have let her contact me when she wants me to pick them up, and which I do gladly. I keep them for days at a time. in front of D15 she states that I have never ever once called and asked to take them. well, its only been a month. saying that I am a deadbeat dad is something she would have never said. also, she would have never degraded me in front of our children.
she is mad that I do not communicate with her. she says that I am abandoning the family, yet I am all alone in the family home.
I cannot believe the amount of lying she does, for no reason, it baffles me.
Breathe! She needs to paint you as the bad guy in order to justify what she is doing and why she walked.
Call her on it when she degrades you in front of the children. There is no excuse for that behavior. You would call your children, especially teenagers, out if they did something like this. Your wife is acting like a teen and sometimes you have to step up to the plate and call them on their behavior.
They do love to lie. It's all part of the journey and it's their way of covering their tracks and trying to alleviate their guilt and one more thing...she's projecting a lot of BS on to you when, in fact, she is the one that is lying.
Try to remain calm and keep your voice as even as you can when addressing her. Do not get into arguments or screaming matches w/her. When she's doing this kind of stuff, walk away. You do not need to take her BS. Leave her to her own mess and that way the only person she fights w/is herself.
Detaching from the drama will come slowly into play, breathe! Dig deeper for patience and do not take her bait!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hi, Goonies. I am fairly new here myself and don’t have anything to add, other than to offer my support at this difficult time. I used to wake up every day feeling like I was having a nightmare, but it has gotten a bit easier with time. I try to wake up and focus on what I can do in my own life each day. Not to say that some days I don’t wake up and think, How are we here?
Before I address the phase "stirring the pot", I want to point out that the stages for MLC are just a guide. The stages are not linear, nor are the timelines that have been described by others set in stone. Each person is unique, their personalities and childhoods are unique and their coping skills are unique, therefore each person may have some similar traits/behaviors, but each will go through the crisis at their own speed, which is slow, and their behaviors can be totally different. There is no magical potion that will make their crisis go any faster and there is no "one size fits all". The best thing you can do is educate yourself on depression, as this is the main ingredient of MLC, educate yourself as much as possible on MLC by reading the postings here and on our other forums and keeping the focus on yourself by digging deeper for patience, compassion and understanding. This is not a sprint, but a marathon.
I had to go back through the postings to see what you were talking about with regards to stirring the post. "Stirring the post means to get a reaction from someone or something." This particular phrase was used by a former poster when she described the last three stages of a crisis, i.e., depression, withdrawal and acceptance that she used when dealing w/her own spouse's crisis. However, this is only her opinion and may or may not work in every situation. She also stated that "if the LBS allows the MLC'er to run roughshod over them, in this latter half of the crisis, it will turn into a cycle that loops around and around until broken..and each time it loops, it's harder to break...and it takes MORE time and MORE strength to try and break the cycle each time it's allowed to come about." In my opinion, that the "cycle" can happen any time throughout the crisis and that's why we encourage people to focus on themselves, their families and above all else, learn to detach from their behaviors and not over analyze what they say or do. We can break the cycle if we get off the merry-go-round of crazymaking behavior and detach. An example of "stirring the pot" could be that the MLCer is doing something totally unacceptable like lying, taking things from the home or emptying out the bank account, you call them on their behaviors, i.e., just as you would another person doing such things. The reaction could be positive or negative and it all depends on how you address the issues, i.e., in a calm manner versus pointing fingers and using an argumentative tone.
In my opinion by the time the MLCer has begun the final deep, dark depression, withdrawal and hopefully acceptance stages, the LBS has grown by leaps and bounds and has learned to detach and become more self confident and has the final say in whether they will reconcile or move on. When the MLCer gets to the final stage of waking up and beginning to reconnect w/others, they will have a lot of catching up to do because the LBS has already done the heavy lifting of learning how to live and accept themselves and their lives, i.e., they didn't go down into the rabbit hole like the MLCer did many years ago.
Your spouse has many months to go and you should not try to "stir the pot" to get reactions out of her at this time.
BTW, I removed the reference to the former poster's name as she no longer posts here and has her own business/ forum dealing with MLC and marital issues.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
This is more of a rant, but please add any comments for my sanity....please.
First thing is, my D15 has turned so cold and distant towards me during all of this MLC BS. she has latched onto W because they are both the same level age wise right now. I know that I have done really good in controlling emotions. I know that she will come to see the whole picture one day. but it makes me so mad that W seems to have no feelings on the issue.
Also, she did not call S21 on Christmas. I can see he is not sealing well with her cold heartless attitude. her and him always had a good relationship, before all of this.
Lastly, she has been posting those lame meme's on facebook about how 2020 is going to be the best year, how she shedded dead weight...blah blah blah. is all of this to dig at me, see if I will respond?
I feel like I want to let her know that I still want her back and how much I still love her, and will wait. but I know that is the wrong thing to do. I know I need to wait for her to reach out to me during NC.
I have become more aware the past couple weeks during this NC, that has nothing to do with her and everything to do with my personal growth as a LBS. but I hate it, I cant wait to be happy and confident that what the Lord wants to happen, will happen.
I honestly believe that I have reached a point where I have found my emotional center. I am not racked with depression/anxiety , but I don't feel like I see hope. I hope that I start to lean that way real soon.
Breathe buddy. Just breathe. You will get through this.
I’ve got a couple of questions, if you don’t mind.
W moved out three weeks ago, right?
So you live in the house? Where do D23, S21, D15, D4, and S3 all live? I am guessing the three youngest still live with you in the house. Maybe even all the kids do.
MLCers do turn distance and cold. They have to, it allows them to run. Your W is looking for any reasons to further her justifications for leaving and jumping to this new life. Her memes on FB, and her shedding some dead weight could be a shot at you. Most likely it is her talking herself into what she is doing.
She is irrational right now, and will be for some time. She is on full emotional overload. She feels her life is a mess, she doesn’t know why, and she blames you, the kids, the colour of the sky, whatever it takes, so she can run to her new life. My XW blamed me for the furnace blowing air on her. MLCers are irrational, don’t expect her to make rational decisions.
Do as you have been and do not respond to her taunts on FB.
Most MLCers become terrible parents. They also choose a favourite child and it follows they choose a least favourite. The hierarchy of favourite kids does change especially when the child does not do what the MLCer wants or expects.
D15 it would seem is Mom’s favourite at the moment. Both are acting like 15 year old girls. And 15 year old girls will and do fight. Mom and daughter will have fireworks, stay out of it. Both will blame you. One is an actual teenager who is growing up and needs to push against her authority figure, that’s you by the way. The other is your W, who also needs to grow up. Neither is ready to accept their role in any conflicts. You daughter however is behaving just like a teen should and will learn and grow. Your W is unknown.
All the kids will feel responsible for what is going on between you and W, and their Mom’s abandonment. Their level of self blame will be dependent upon them, their emotional understanding, and their ability to cope. D23 and S21 are both old enough to understand what Mom is doing and can express their anger and displeasure of her behaviour. D4 and S3 are young and are more resilient than you probably figure. It’s D15 who is at an age that will be the big challenge.
Provide love and guidance to you children. Be their rock, their stability, what they can rely upon. Discuss the situation with them, age appropriately of course. Don’t worry, they will ask questions if you open the door.
My daughter was 15 when XW left, much like your daughter. My boys were 17, 19, and 21. We are currently two years passed bomb drop and abandonment.
A few things to consider, for all the kids, but right now it seems D15 is your greatest concern. This does apply to the others, with some modifications depending on events.
D15 is going to blame you. It’s irrational. Do not argue the point with her. She needs to blame someone. And she cannot risk loosing her Mom, and since you are the sane and stable parent you are going to get it.
Don’t worry it isn’t forever. D15 has a lot of anger towards her Mom, which she can’t express to her, you know yell at her. So she has to project it onto you. Listen, be kind and calm, and stay rational. D15 will take her cues from you. Your demonstrated behaviour is the light your kids will follow. D15 will open up to you, ensure you are strong and ready.
In my situation S17 was very angry and I got it. I received rebellious attitude that would be for Dad and the attitude that should have been for Mom. Double doses of anger and grief as well. I did get in the middle of S19 and Mom, oh boy, did that go sideways fast. Both blasted me.
Advice - protect your kids, but stay out of their relationship with their Mom. Your job is not to facilitate their relationship. Your job is to not destroy it. Mom and child have to figure out their relationship. You just keep the young ones safe.
My D15 become colder and distance. She at first hung out with Mom. So wanting her Mom in her life. She had no illusions of wanting to actually live with Mom and OM, just wanted a taste of what was ripped away from her. Eventually she saw through Mom, and how she was just a pawn in her Mom’s game. I’ve watch them ignore and fight each other just like teenage girls do. Mom is much worse than daughter. Two years later, D17 has grown much and understands her Mom. XW not so much growth, of course she doesn’t have a role model, nor the desire to grow up. Children are very perceptive and will see through their Mom’s facade in time.
A word on no contact. I am glad to see you realize that NC is for you to heal. NC allows you the space from W to work towards detachment.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
... has nothing to do with her and everything to do with my personal growth as a LBS. but I hate it, I cant wait to be happy and confident that what the Lord wants to happen, will happen.
Breathe.
Dig for patience.
Remember, you have the gift of time, use it well.
I do empathize and remember just how much I hated what I was going through. I also felt that “I can’t wait”. A suggestion/advice for you.
Your mind is always listening. The little things you say accumulate and will make progress or impede progress. For example using the word can’t. Very few things are truly “can’t”. I can’t get pregnant is a valid one. “I can’t wait to be happy” is actually I don’t want to wait...
Your mind makes your reality. When you say you can’t do something, your mind will make that so.
I don’t want to wait - is accurate and shows that waiting is possible although unwanted. The next and better version is “I can wait to be happy and confident again. I know it is coming and I will make it.” Please try that on. Say it out loud right now. Re-read that sentence out loud.
How does that make you feel? How does that make you think?
Words are powerful. Can, can’t, will, won’t, try, do - choose and use well. Try is an interesting word. It allows for, and I would even go so far to say to predisposes, one to fail. Do, is a better choice, a better mindset. Failure can still happen when using the mindset of doing, and that’s ok, we learn from failure. It’s just “try” has to easy a way out, and some of the stuff you need to “do” is difficult and “trying” is not the same as “doing”.
Your mind is listening, all the time. It will make your reality. Be accurate and true in thought and heart.
Do focus on you and your kids.
Be strong G. You can do this.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I'm a believe in the power of positive. It's truly amazing how your entire outlook on a situation can change with the use of empowering words.
Writing down encouraging thoughts really helps me. Thinking the words, writing the words, seeing the words, reading the words out loud, hearing the words and feeling the words.
You got this. Find one word that empowers you to be strong. Repeat it whenever a negative though entires.
Breathe
~Never Give Up ~ 2019 Mar BD June BD Dec Aow/xgf 2020 Jan he wants D Feb he flys2 ow Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn Apr he leaves for work until Nov Oct D FINAL 2020 Living MY Happiest Life Ever
hello, she moved out 2 days before Thanksgiving, D4 and S3 'live' with her, she wants shared custody. D15 lives with SIL 2 hours away. that's a whole other story. that was against my better judgement, and I really didn't seem to have any choice at the time. W goes and picks her up almost every weekend. she does not seem to want to talk to me. I just reaffirm that I love her.
I do believe in positive self talk. my problem is I let myself sink into a pit and not give it any thought. I need more practice.
You should stay the course and leave her be. Well, your description of what happened to her as a small child explains a lot of what she's going through right now. She was stunted emotionally as a child and there was no one there to hear her, to actually listen and validate her feelings of loss, unhappiness, etc. Poor child.
What can you do? You allow her the time and space she needs to find herself. You stay the course and continue giving her that much needed space she requires. She needs to go back in time and face her demons and come to realize that as a child, there was nothing she could do about what happened. From there she will begin to grow up and hopefully be a happier and more individual.
I know you want to hold her and reassure her, but you can't. This is her journey to travel back down memory lane. You were not invited on her journey....but you can be there when she reaches out to you and just listen. Do not offer up advice unless she asks for it. Being a good listener will be what she needs and being a good friend to start out would be best. Keep your expectations at zero at all time.
Her crisis didn't just happen, it has taken years and years for this to begin the bubbling up to the surface. Now, she needs to find her way and the best way to do that is space and time. I know, I am repeating myself over and over about space and time...but those two things are very important. This is not a sprint...but a marathon and it will take as long as it takes for her to get through it. You cannot rush the process.
Keep the focus on you and dig deeper for patience. You cannot rush the process for either of you. One minute at a time, one hour at a time, one day at a time. If you attempt to rush the process, she may pull even further away. It is important that you find things to do and make those changes that you think you need to make and make they a permanent part of your life.
There is a resources thread at the top of the forum that has some valuable info in it as well as the Welcome Posting link. I created a thread many years ago on my thoughts as to why they run away and it might be helpful to you as well. Here is the link to the thread
Last edited by job; 01/04/2003:48 PM. Reason: added a link to another thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Just keep DBing G. You can´t use logic with her, there´s no space for any reasoning. Use the info you are getting to get into a new you. AMOAFWL. That´s where you need to go.
You are getting plenty of really good advice. As Cadet always posts, use the time wisely.
Time, patience, DB. Trust the process. Be strong man.
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Hello all, quick update, I am still deep in NC. W will text with trivial stuff, even wished me luck on a job interview. I try to delay my responses back to her, and that irritates her.
I have been fighting deep anxiety and depression daily. I did find that taking ST Johns Wort really helps me out. got it from Walmart.
how does every one real with being so d@mn lonely? I have no plans on walking, but what to do?
are there any standers here that have dated while standing, is that bad? I am sure I am not the only one that wonders this stuff....
it is coming up on a year since I was last sexual with my W. I really miss the smell of her hair and skin. I miss her so much. I just want someone to hold, if not her. what do I do????
Last edited by job; 01/25/2010:27 PM. Reason: edited language
Of course, your w gets irritated when you don't respond asap. She thinks that you should be sitting by the phone all of the time waiting for her to call and/or text you. She doesn't like it that you may have moved on w/your life. In her mind, she thinks you should be right where she left you.
At this time, are still considering standing and wanting to reconcile w/your wife? Dating is asking for a bit of trouble especially if you are still considering and hoping to reconcile w/your w at some point. What happens if you get involved w/someone and decide that you want to spend more time w/her and then your w wakes up? Adding a third person to the mix...well, someone will get hurt at some point. If you date, then you are giving your w the clear signal that it is okay for her to do it and that you won't have any issue w/her doing it.
Also, you've not had all that much time to work on yourself, grieve and heal from the loss of your marriage/relationship. You don't want to jump into the dating pool until you are feeling better about yourself. All you would be doing is putting a band aid on what is hurting deep within your soul. It is better to work on yourself, find some activities, such as a volley ball/basketball league, bowling, hiking, or take up some of those DYI courses that are offered at Lowes and Home Depot on the weekends.
Check out your local paper for activities that might be of interest to you. Have you completed the list of things that you have put off during the marriage that now can be done? Start making that list of things that you would like to do and get started on them.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Just be yourself and absolutely no expectations if and when she reaches out. Treat her as you would a neighbor.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
As job said you have a huge hurt in your soul. Heal yourself first. Dating will hurt more. There are many stories on this board of people dating too soon and when still married. Many report back that they hurt themselves and the other person and sent themselves backwards on their own healing path. Imagine having that along with everything else to process.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
how does every one deal with being so d@mn lonely? I have no plans on walking, but what to do?
Originally Posted by GOONIES
it is coming up on a year since I was last sexual with my W. I really miss the smell of her hair and skin. I miss her so much. I just want someone to hold, if not her. what do I do????
Loneliness. Let’s discuss that.
The idea I want to get across is being alone is different than feeling alone.
Loneliness (and a great many other issues the LBS deals with) starts as a feeling. This feeling of lonely influences thoughts of a similar nature. These feelings and thought create and reinforce your beliefs. Soon you believe you are alone, which reinforces feeling and thoughts, and a vicious feedback loop tightens upon you.
Beliefs create your reality. If you believe you are alone than you will be.
If you believe you are happy than you will be.
This is not some word play. Beliefs are those deep convictions inside you. An internal force crafted from physical actions, emotions, thoughts, and yes your soul. Beliefs are rational and irrational - more than the sum of all their parts.
Now, loneliness is a troubling belief. It causes pain and sorrow. And fear. It is coupled irrationally to various activities and places in your life. Seeing this is the first step in “dealing with being so d@mn lonely”.
To alter a belief you need to break that feedback loop. Uncouple it. GAL. Physical activities influence thoughts and feelings.
Do this for an demonstration:
Smile. Seriously. Curve up the sides of your mouth and smile. Force it if you have to.
Now.
Frown.
When you smiled you felt it. No matter how deep in darkness you are; and I know just how dark it does get; physical actions like smiling influence feelings associated with that action. You smile, you feel joy and happy.
When you frown you feel sad and alone.
Physical action influences you. The fake it till you make it.
Physical is one of the “cars” you can directly control. I’ll post a link to my “cars” analogy for you. It is basically the four attributes of one’s path - physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual.
As I said physical you can directly control. You did after all smile on command. The other directly controlled “car” is intellectual - your thoughts.
Thoughts are the rational part of you. Logic and reason. Feelings and emotions do not exist in the intellectual realm. Along with physical activity, rationalizing your situation uncoupled the irrational binding of beliefs, fear, attachment, etc... Continued efforts in the intellectual and reasoned path yields influence upon emotions and beliefs. This is a slow process and takes mental assertiveness to achieve. Your sword and shield if you’ve read my postings.
Emotions you cannot directly control. That feeling of loneliness you cannot just “feel” away. Emotions are irrational and born outside of the realm of your direct control. We “control”, and this is not direct, emotions by using intellect and reason. Now emotions need to be expressed and accepted. Loneliness is no exception.
Carve out time, schedule it, to feel your emotions. This is an intellectual pursuit. The scheduling of time to feel is akin to forcing yourself to smile or frown. You are feeling the loneliness without the irrational trigger and attachments. This starts to allow you to rationalize your irrational coupling and break it. It’s the same for fear and a great many other things.
Your belief in being alone and lonely will start to alter. This is slow, so be gentle on yourself it does take time.
This is all well and good and you also need to start to replace that lonely feeling. More accurately, you don’t replace the feeling you let it wither, while reinforcing different and better emotions. Remember thoughts reinforce feelings and emotions. Use your thoughts and reason. Get in your intellectual car.
You have friends, family, work buddies, acquaintances, people here on this board, and so on. You are not alone on your journey.
Yes, there are times when you are by yourself. And you need not be lonely because of that. Turn those alone times into something to look forward to, an activity.
I love the night sky. The dark velvety blackness with thousand and thousands of stars piercing through it. I stand alone looking into the face of creation, the Milky Way splashed across the canvas above. No one around. And I feel so connected and full, definitely not lonely.
Alone - yes.
Lonely - no.
Watch movies, read, post, stargaze, whatever activities you want. I know at the beginning it is difficult to see that path. The GAL, get a life, is very important. You don’t know what you want to do. You’ve not done “alone” for a long time. Do different things, see what fits, what feels good. Not everything is going to be a win. That’s ok. You will learn what you do like and what you do not.
Going out for a fancy steak dinner, alone, for the first time - is such a weird and strange feeling. That is more a dating or couple thing - right? NO WAY! LOL. It took time for me to move passed that. Irrational uncoupling - I’m pretty good at it. And I do like to pass on what I’ve learned.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
it is coming up on a year since I was last sexual with my W. I really miss the smell of her hair and skin. I miss her so much. I just want someone to hold, if not her. what do I do????
I hope you can see why I posted this along with the lonely quote.
What to do????
Heal yourself before holding someone else.
Find the love for your life. Find the love of being by yourself.
I also miss the smell of my W’s hair. The feel of her skin. The return of an embrace. Irrational desires and longings.
Believe me, you get to a place where this is accepted and doesn’t hurt.
Go for a fancy steak diner then watch the night sky. Find peace in the vastness.
Thank you, I will reread this may times. I do love her, and I will wait for her. I wish I could see what was going on in her head, what she is thinking about, what she thinks will make her happy. does she think about me, is she second guessing herself. how close does she come to telling me she want to come home....
I wonder if I had done things different she would have stayed in the house , and I just gave her the time and space, I thought I was giving her then.
You do not want to be in her head. Right now, her brain is a jumbled mess, i.e., like swiss cheese. She's on an emotional journey and believe it or not, she has the memory of a gnat and what she thinks at this time will change in five minutes. She honestly doesn't know what will make her happy. She will try many things...but the bottom line is that happiness comes from within and not from just exterior things or persons.
Sure she thinks about you...but most of that thinking takes place at night, when all is quiet and there are not distractions to keep her from thinking about you. She has a lot of guilt and shame for what she's doing, but she has to complete this journey in order to face her childhood demons and accept the things that she wasn't responsible for at that early age. She will need to grow up and that will take quite some time. The crisis didn't happen over night, it took a very long time to come to the surface and it will take some time before she wakes up.
At this time, no one knows if and when she will wake up. You will be the last person that she will reconnect with. All of the disconnections that are taking place now, will be in reverse when she begins to wake up. For now, focus on today and leave the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
There is no right or wrong way when dealing w/someone in crisis. People in crisis that stay at home tend to drive their spouses to the point of being batty. Some think it is better for the MLCer to remain in the home...but I think it's better to let them go and face the world, make their mistakes and hopefully grown up and better more mature individuals.
Don't even think about the what ifs...just focus on today.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I get there is a certain amount of understanding required to move forward and let go. However, the what if’s, digging around try to figure out what would make her happy, is she thinking about me, etc... will drive you bonkers.
She doesn’t even know. She is a person in crisis. She is a mess right now.
My view, and it has changed since my first steps along this unwanted path I found myself upon, it is better for the crisis person to leave. They can grow up, unimpeded. It is probably also better for the LBS.
Now, at first I was so lost. I totally wished I had a MLCer that stayed in the home. I could show her my 180s and turn her around! Why couldn’t I be one of the lucky ones? Lol. Gosh, I was so naive.
The MLCer will do whatever it is they will do. Stay or go, really isn’t due to the LBS. The MLCer is broken and the LBS didn’t break them.
That is why nothing you do will fix them. Space and time; and lots of each. That’s what the MLCer needs.
You, focus on you. What you need. Your inner work. That’s the path for the LBS. And it is a most rewarding path; even though it does start out rather rocky and painful.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hello, if I may, I need to ramble/vent/let it go...
I am still having a really hard time with all of this.over the past few months I lost my job, and just sat at home mainly in bed, with the covers over my head most of the time. I am not sure why I have to have my head covered all the time, but I do. some how I found the desire to go out and find a new job. before all of this I was good at what I do, and made six figures doing it. now I just seem to barely get through the days. I cant wait to get home to get into bed and cover my head till the next day. I find myself siting in the bathroom at work crying. the pains in my gut just will not go away. I pray and ask for relief from this, I ask for the answers from God, but I have not seem to have heard them yet. I look around at the other people and wonder how come they get to have a normal day, why don't they have these problems too? if they do have these problems how come they seem to have it more together than I do, what made me so weak?? when she moved out I told her that it would be a financial disaster. she did not seem to care. after being out of work for a couple months , I am behind on everything. I try as much as I can not to interact with her. but, she still texts me. I just don't want to hear from her right now. no matter what I walk away feeling worse, every time. yesterday she said she was going to drop the babies off because she had something to do. no problem, any chance I can to see them, I will take it. the evil look and the dark dead eyes were to much. I knew that it was not going to end well. she again told me that she want more money form me, because I am not taking care of her like I should. she berates me in front of our D15. something that she would never have done prior to this. then after she leaves, she texts me and states that I don't know why I would think she has an endless supply of money, that she is stepping up-, and that she wishes I would try as hard as she is to make this work. I know that right now she is trying to hurt me with her cold heartless evil new personality, but she just does not seem to realize what I have and am going through, trying to rebuild myself. I hate to say it but it seems like she is trying to make me really go insane, or commit suicide. can she really be so heartless and hate me so much. I am the father to our 5 children, why does she think this is ok? I just want to learn to hate her they way she does me, but I cannot seem to do it, yet. I want to wish her all the bad, she has given to me. but I am so ignorant that I still believe there is hope. her cold dead eyes seem to say different. never in a million years think that my beautiful wife would turn so dark and evil. I am so lost, there just seems to be no hope for all this, and what kind of future does she think our children have with her new found evil? its like she embraces her new self. no of this makes any sense to me. I sometimes wonder if it is not MLC and she is possesed by some kind of demonic demon. all of this is just not the women I have been with for over 30 years. I am just so damn lost, and feel so hopeless. I was hoping that time would make it more bearable, but it seems to just get worse for me. I want to hate her so much, I know if I could hate her I would not care about her, and I could move on with out remorse, or regret. the past few days I have thought that maybe I need to go have myself committed. I am just at my wits end.....
I dont really know much of your story...but after reading your last post I feel concerned for you...Im sorry for your pain
Breaking up from a long M as yours is very difficult and yes gut wrenching painful I went through it as well and I want to share with you some things that helped me get through the pain I hope you can relate
Individual counseling..I hope you are already going and if not please consider it asap
support groups
sharing with a few trusted friends
GAL..find an activity that helps, reading, gardening, biking, kayaking, walking in nature, instruments, art projects
12 step programs....coda, alanon ect...this is very helpful and there are phone meetings as well
eating healthy
sleeping
Yoga or exercise
Meditation, prayer or some kind of spiritual search
do it for you...yes it hurts but she cant ruin you Only you can and only you can FIX you...
(((Hugs)))
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Goonies. You are not weak...you sound as if you are clinically depressed. You are not alone. Not EVERYONE has a normal life with very few problems. People hide things very, very well. You probably do too even though you think your pain is obvious. Sounds to me like you need professional help. Is there a crisis clinic near you? Adult mental health services? At the very least, go see your doctor and get on some medication. It is not a “fix” but it can really help. I am a pretty strong person but when I was in the depths of my sitch, I had similar feelings to you. Sadness, hopelessness, anxiety, etc... I have never in my life been on any medication for my mental state but I’m a mental health therapist...I know it helps...so I went to my doctor and went on them. After a couple of weeks, I started to notice a difference. It didn’t get rid of my feelings but it definitely helped to make them more manageable. And get yourself an individual counsellor. You need to talk to someone about this. Problems that aren’t shared only get bigger. And keep posting. The people on here will help you through this but you need to listen to us. We have all been where you are. All of us.
I know you want to hate her. Believe me, I know. But hating someone is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. It only hurts you in the end. She doesn’t hate you. In her mind, she is done and she hates that she has to go through all of this. I saw that in my XH’s eyes too. I, like you, thought it was hate which made no sense because I had never done anything to him to deserve that kind of animosity. In hindsight, I know that the look I saw was him shutting off his feelings whenever he was in my presence so he could move forward with his plan and not be deterred by my pain or by his shame. Now that we are divorced, I don’t see that look anymore.
Your wife is not trying to make you insane. She is not focused on you at all. She is trying to make herself happy and right now, she doesn’t think being with you is going to do that. As hard as this is, Goonies, you need to take a page from her book and put the focus on yourself. Stop worrying about what she is doing or not doing. Do what you need to do to get you healthy. What would you do if she died suddenly? How would you be there for your kids? What would you do to move forward? The pain you feel is the pain of rejection. It is awful, no doubt, but it is survivable... Take the focus off of her. Become AMOAFWL (a man only a fool would leave)... not for her but for you...and your kids. Do it for them especially. They need their dad to be okay. (((HUGS)))
Goonies, we've all been there. Your thinking right now is in a way totally right, I feel the same about my H, that disbelief and horror, but it's also just lies from the devil meant to keep you from peace. Your kids need you, especially if your wife is no longer the woman she was. Imagine how your kids feel, losing their mom in that way. Be honest with them that you are struggling but that you will keep putting them first. Do you have a pastor you trust to talk to about this? And/or a counselor? The answer is not hating her -- it's letting this version of her go. Hatred is a slavery for you, let her be the enslaved one and you work on your freedom from those feelings. She is possessed! Let her go and pray for her. The day will come when you feel more detached. It hurts a lot, we know! But you only have to get through today, not tomorrow. And believe me, your confidence will return too. Just keep telling yourself that the way you feel now is not how you will always feel and try to find one thing per day to feel grateful for. Your kids need you -- if you feel like your life is over, okay, go with that and just live for them. Your life is not over but if your brain is feeding you that lie, you can use it to find a reason to use your life for your kids' benefit. Lots of love. When I felt like you are feeling now, I carried Psalm 69 in my purse and read it all day.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
thank you all that replied back with your wisdom , and support. So many days I wake up and before I open my eyes I already feel defeated. I try so hard to talk myself up, but before I know it I am in the mire again. does the physical aspect of this knot of despair in my stomach, feelings of failure, and always on the verge of tears go away? what do I do to rise above all this? all of the reading I have done here and else where, it seems like she is in a time of indifference. how do I navigate this within myself? should I allow myself to be mad at her? will that help me? I just want to know what is ok to feel. I have this urge to tell her out loud that she wins, with any luck I will be broke, homeless and alone as she desires, or what I read from her actions, and words. I am really trying not to focus on any kind of stage, or time line. but, if she is in a time of indifference, is there any insight you guys can offer from practical experience? like where is she at when she makes the move to move out, becomes indifferent to me, has the dark death eyes? you guys have to know where I am coming from, just looking for any form of where I might be. if you guys could just throw me a bone from your experience I think would somehow help me. I will share with you something about myself. over the past few years, I had dreams where she would leave me, divorce me, disappear for a long period of time, I always hated these nightmares of sorts. never would I have thought I would have to live them in real life. but now a lot of what I dreamed has became a reality for me. the past couple weeks, I have started to have dreams that we were reconnecting in some way. weather it be talking, arguing. last night I had a dream that we decided to reconcile, and it was civil. is there anyone that might be able to interpret this? I am not making it up, trying to gain attention, or pity. these are real events that I am so confused about, and need help understanding. the dream I had last night is what prompted me to my post today. I read on here everyday, but do not post a lot, as you can see, because I don't have the words to put down.
something else I want to mention, last night when she picked up the babies and I was giving them hugs good bye, t is hard to separate from them every time, I tried not to cry, but I let a little out, but held it together best I could. she just looked at me with a look of discus, shook her head and walk off. no heart at all. how do I rebound from that kind of action?
It would be expected to feel the hurt and despair that you do
How your wife views it, is not your issue
Thing is we have to turn it around We have to love ourself..forgive self,,be there for youself
therapy is a must for most here to grieve and sort through it all
DB talks about act as if especially around the spouse as as if ...your ok pretend like your an academy award actor
the most important thing is we Have to BE gentle on us you have to shift your thoughts around the way you view yourself and your life
and put the pain on the side lines
easy to say how do we do it practice, faith and action one step at a time
I told you most of the tools above I used to get through it and I learned to play guitar, joined a class to learn to play with others in a band I listened a lot to Utube ...any positive speaker out there..I listened over and over when I could I attended classes and workshops I put a lot of energy in my kids I worked on forgiving xh prayed ect
you have to find what works for you but work it is None of it comes without some/lots of effort
become the man you want to be and see what W does then
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Goonies, I’m sorry that you are feeling this way. Like others have said, you have to start doing things for yourself first. Of course you are allowed to feel all the emotions that you’re feeling...it would be impossible to shut them down. But focus on yourself first. Keep thinking about what she’s doing will drive you nuts.
There was a period when I was really down. I went swimming. And when I was in the water I felt like I was going to drown in a pool of sadness. But I just kept going. Plus I was swimming with friends too, so that helped me a lot. Maybe try channeling all your negative emotions into something. I think exercising regularly is crucial to mental health.
Be strong and piece yourself back together. Do it for yourself, but I think the better you hold up, the less hate/disgust you’ll get from her. As to how to rebound from that when it happens- you make yourself better!!! Make a list of all the little things you can do everyday. Take a walk. Clean up the house. Do something nice for a stranger. Listen to music and dance. Smile even if you don’t want to. Read a book. You can do it.
My wife has not been in crisis to long but I have learned a few important things from this board and from dealing with my son's life threatening disease (which he beat). First of all its OK to have a pity party once and a while, especially at the beginning everything that was normal, isn't anymore. Embrace your new normal, for going back to the way things were yesterday can no longer be. Both you and your wife are different people now, you are not the same as you were yesterday. However, that's OK hopefully if you follow the guidance and wisdom found on this board you may be fortunate enough to try your marriage again 2.0 style. If your marriage does not reconcile you get a second chance at being you, 2.0, a new and improved version. As far as being mad at her, don't. Someone told me (on this board I believe) that anger and jealousy are useless emotions, not just in MLC situations but really in all situations. If you think about when has anger or jealousy solved any of you problems in life? Do the homework as suggested, post often, therapy is a great idea and it will get better.
Hi Goonies, I am right in the middle of a MLC with my H right now. Reread that “the middle” that means we are on the way to an end. Who knows how long? My BD was in May, and the only words that I could repeat every night after I prayed were “I am one day closer to this being over” I also realize I have the power to end it now. I choose not to, as I love my H and we also have been together 30 years this month and married 28 next.
I have moments of extreme distress, I never show him. He walks in from being wherever, and I smile and say hi. Sometimes I get a response, usually I get nothing or a brief “hi”.
I haven’t read your whole sitch, but I’ll say that since May, I have seen a minute thaw. Nothing to write home abiut, but there has been a little conversation. Nothing M related.
I certainly do not have the experience to offer advice, but just a smile and tell you, we are all in this, the middle of something with you. Get out and experience GAL, it was hard for me, but I have learned more about me in the last nine months, one being I am stronger than I thought, and stronger than he knows.
I’m sorry you are going through this...no one deserves this inhumane treatment, but it’s real and it’s happening. Sadly we can’t wish it away. It took me close to 4 months to accept that. I am still horribly hard on myself especially when I have a bad day...but I am settling into a new space day by day sometimes hour by hour. I have taken so much advice from this forum and it really does help. That does not mean it is easy. It is not. The biggest take away I am working on right now is truly believing that this is not my fault and that I can not fix H. As others have said the pain, confusion, hurt, will start to let up...especially the more you GAL. I too have never become angry despite people around me wondering why and much to my own amazement even when H (shark eyes/ dead eyes) does/says something hurtful or with such disdain as you described. My profile name says it all...despite the hopelessness the sadness the confusion I said from the very being of BD (once I realized something very strange was happening) that I would always be kind. I’m treating my H as if he’s sick which I know MLC is not but it helps me remain as peaceful and kind as possible. I will not allow someone else to harden my heart. You got this....day by day sometimes minute by minute. People are here for you. Pls take care.
We all empathize and understand what you are going through.
I will share, and encourage. You will get through this. Honest.
I suffered that ceaseless pain. So much trouble getting out of bed. Something I just could not do - wear long sleeves. Absolutely couldn’t do it. And it was winter and darn cold! I’ll put on a long sleeve shirt or sweater and heart would race, I’d stress out, breathe way too fast, and scramble to get the shirt off. Kind of like you and the covers over your head.
Post trauma stress. It manifests differently for everyone. Long sleeves and no noise - couldn’t stand the TV or radio. Some people need noise. Others darkness, other lights on all the time. Perfectly fine. You’ve been through a lot and it takes time to find your balance again.
Let’s look at some of your questions:
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does the physical aspect of this knot of despair in my stomach, feelings of failure, and always on the verge of tears go away?
Yes. It takes time. Be gentle on yourself. This is part of grieving and the depression you are experiencing.
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what do I do to rise above all this?
Detach. Detach. Detach. This is the most important single thing you can do!
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all of the reading I have done here and else where, it seems like she is in a time of indifference. how do I navigate this within myself?
Detach first then find indifference. Focusing on you is the key.
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should I allow myself to be mad at her?
Allow yourself to feel whatever it is you feel. You do not need to find a way to be angry, but if you are angry that’s ok. Just like it’s ok to not be angry. Your feelings are real and perfectly normal. Don’t worry about them.
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will that help me?
Feeling your emotions is necessary. It is steps along the path. Let them wash over you.
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I just want to know what is ok to feel.
You will feel many different emotions. All are fine.
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is there any insight you guys can offer from practical experience?
Lack of detachment is emotionally dragging you around.
The ceaseless and seemingly unending pain is withdrawal from your addiction to W. When our spouse leaves, our brain cries out for the once plentiful chemicals that flowed so freely before. That absences of those feel good chemicals is the pain - withdrawal symptoms. And from various sources it’s feels like trying to withdrawal from heroin. Tough stuff.
So what can you do?
Focus on you!
Detach!
Go no contact as much as possible. This includes social media, texts, etc...
This is an addiction you’re working through, so every time you reach back it fires up those pathways and pushes back the process a little. This is an emotional torment you are suffering. Your irrational side is clinging to what once was, and doesn’t want to let go. Make no mistake this is probably the biggest fight you have ever faced. However, you are not with out weapons.
Logic and reason. Use them. You control your mind - the rational intellectual side. Slowly logic will influence your emotions. A few things to do:
Block W. Unfriend her on FB and block her. Do not look at old pictures and memories (for a while). Trips down memory lane are very painful right now, and keep you from getting passed this.
Do not snoop. Do not think about her or what she may be doing. Remember you control you. This is completely within your control.
This is part of focus on you.
The plan is for you to regain control of your emotions. Seeing things from a logical view helps with detachment. Actually seeing things logically is pretty detached - so in that regard your goal is well defined.
Detachment comes and goes, so keep at it. Forgive yourself when you fall back and slip up a bit - we all do. It’s ok. Get up dust off and keep moving forward.
And when feelings are rising up, take some time and let them out. Go for a walk, a run, do push ups, something to sweat them out. It’s good for you and you are reattaching those feelings to other actions and thoughts - it’s another how you detach method.
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if you guys could just throw me a bone from your experience I think would somehow help me.
Post your questions. Vent. Let us know how it’s going.
A lot of advice is counterintuitive; it will sound, seem, and feel wrong. Have faith and walk the path. Things do become clear.
A bit of encouragement for you G: I know where and when you are; I openly posted my painful journey. I suffered, like you.
Depression my friend. I do remember. It feels like it will be forever. No one else gets it. No one understands. I don’t want to feel better (that’s a big one to face by the way).
It is so very difficult to hear the advice. And so much more harder to follow it. It just doesn’t feel right.
Now, think about it. You know you can and will be better. Heck, look at me, I’m proof. But it doesn’t feel like it. And there in lay the truth you need to hold on to, listen to, and follow.
It doesn’t feel correct right now - and won’t for some time. Yet it does make sense logically. Listen and hang on to your reason. Let your emotions wash over you. It’s such a hard balance to find.
Hang in there and be strong. You will find your way.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
MAN, I SURE LOVE YOU GUYS!!!! Thank you for the wisdom. I know it is a natural instinct to want to reinforce with her how much I love her, and how much I want her to come home. does she know, does she care, does she worry that I don't? is there anything I can do or say to her to make sure she does know?
It´s not necessary G. You don´t need to do that. Get some more into expectation management and free yourself. You need to detach and GAL. Those are DB basics.
Be strong there
WW H(me): 53 W: 48 T: 27 M: 22 S: 18 Piecing since 03/2016 Saw the light in the storm
Your wife knows how you feel about her and yes, she knows that you want her to come home. Do not say anything to her about this right now. It is and will put undue pressure on her and she does not want to hear it. Continue detaching and taking care of your children.
Set your expectations at zero when it comes to your wife so that you aren't disappointment or get angry when she doesn't do what you "expect" her to do. Dig deeper for patience and keep the focus on YOU and your family.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Seems like you are in a stage of really wanting to express your feelings about her and to her. I suggest keeping a journal where you give yourself ten minutes a day to just go hog wild putting down all your feelings -- speaking to her on the page. Never give it to her. And don't let yourself do it all day. Coming here for advice is different, but I mean in the rest of your day. Just let yourself do it there, then close the journal and try to get some discipline about putting those thoughts out of your mind, tell your brain, "You can't think about that now, it's not the time for that right now!" Come up with something you can do whenever you are tempted to think about it -- e.g., help the old lady next door with her lawn, bake cookies for your kids, clean out a closet, read the Bible, call your mom, go for a walk around the block... And if you do see your wife, just have words at the ready so you can stick to basic hellos and any info about kids, maybe a "have fun!" when she is taking them. You don't have to be cold, just independent. Save your warmth and love for your kids. Giving that to your wife right now would be like daily watering a cactus. It will not have the effect you want.
I assure you this is something that you will slowly be able to do. Just keep trying.
Last edited by Gerda; 02/11/2006:37 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Hi, Goonies! I want to add my support as well. You can get through this day by day, hour by hour, and know in the worst moments, you will feel better eventually. I've found a change of scenery--going outside, noticing what you notice, can help. Some way to get your body moving to re-focus your mind when you feel stuck. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. You can do this--you are doing this!
good morning everyone. thank all of you, for taking the time to respond. I really want to believe that there are better days ahead. I will put all of your ideas into action. never in my wildest imagination would I have ever though that, one, this was real, two, it would land on us, and how much I would be affected by it. you are right I am very addicted to my wife. we met when we were 15. we have been side by side since 1987. we are best friends, did everything together. now, to be alone, and when I do see her, its all negative vile spew. it seems for me, like I am sure all of you feel, it is a two-fold issue. one the love of my life has went off the rails and has no idea, and I cant do anything to help her. two, I lost the love of my life, and my best friend, and right now, there is nothing I can do about it.
There really are better days ahead. It’s hard to see them when your walking that twisting turning path for the first time. Have faith in those that have gone before - you are doing well and making progress. Believe that.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
I am very addicted to my wife. we met when we were 15. we have been side by side since 1987. we are best friends, did everything together. now, to be alone, and when I do see her, its all negative vile spew. it seems for me, like I am sure all of you feel, it is a two-fold issue. one the love of my life has went off the rails and has no idea, and I cant do anything to help her. two, I lost the love of my life, and my best friend, and right now, there is nothing I can do about it.
I was happy to see this.
This is a nice logical reasoned viewpoint. It has understanding and compassion; fore markers of detachment; and still shows empathy. Well done.
I want to encourage you a bit.
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...there is nothing I can do about it.
True, on the surface.
So what can you do something about? What can you control?
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Good morning.... thank you DnJ and Peace, it certainly is a process. lots of emotional ups and downs. while I am trying to keep NC, I try to delay my responses to her texts, she will keep texting the same question over and over, until I answer her. the things she asks seem so trivial. is that normal, am I doing the right thing by not responding right away, if it is not an emergency?
hello, I am still alive and kicking. I am doing much better. I am really integrating positive self talk, and pulling myself out of the ditch when I feel I am stuck.
can I get info on "touch and Go's" and what is an 'anchor check' and possibly some examples?
Touch and go's are very common w/the MLCer. Sometimes, they will come around and have moments of clarity, whereby they may show interest in you or what you are doing and then they disappear again for a period of time. It's their way of checking to see if you are still right where they left you. They can sense when you begin to pull away and begin moving forward and often times, that's when they'll come around a bit. They may actually talk to you like a rational person, show interest in you, etc., of share tidbits of their life w/you...however, once they come to realize that they are warming up to you again...off they go again. We call their actions "temperature checks".
I have never heard the term "anchor check". Sorry.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
But I saw indifference in my xh before Bomb It started when he thought he coulddo whatever, whenever he wanted stay out all night ect His mind was made up then and MLC had already taken him
I have not seen any changes in him but we dont keep in touch Many may use drugs, prescriptions ,alcohol ,affairs, sex ,gambling ,shopping ect to continue to run and hide from their feelings
keep up the good work
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Indifference usually begins about 18-24 months prior to the bomb drop. When a person is depressed, they have no desire to be happy about anything. It's a struggle to get through the day for some. Take some time and read up on depression. If you check out the resources thread that smurf created many years ago, which is one of the threads above and is one of the stickies, it may provide you with a lot of sage advice.
When does indifference start to fade? When the person who is suffering starts to wake up and begin to look around and become curious about life, i.e., children, spouse, parents, pets, friends, co-workers, etc. This generally does not begin until closer to the end of the crisis.
If you don't already know this...depression is the main ingredient of MLC. Depression comes in all shapes and sizes and how it is not a "one size fits all" when it comes to the symptoms.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Good morning, I have been using NC/SC. I do not contact her fo0r anything. She will contact me for things, but it always seems like it is a dig, to get to me. the last couple of times I seen her I was very neutral, and positive. I did not show her how much pain I am in. after that she texts me with things she knows that will hurt me. is this normal, should I be doing something more? another thing is, she left a lot of her clothes in the closet and will come by and take a couple things at a time. she will gather up a few things, and then forget to take them. this has happened on a few occasions. why does she do this. why doesn't she just take everything with her to her new house?
She's in MLC and they do not always take everything w/them. They leave plenty behind, whether it's an excuse to come into the home and see if everything is the same, to see if you've changed anything, to get a sense if you have moved on or whether she just didn't need the items at that time. For whatever reason, they do some whacky stuff and leaving belongings behind is one of those things. Also, when they start their new lives, they don't always want the "old stuff" as reminders of their past. They love to spend money and purchase new things, i.e., this makes them feel better and provides them w/something different.
Is she coming into the home when you aren't there? You may want to take a look around and see what she has actually taken. They tend to "sneak out" things that you won't notice are missing until much later on. They are like kids, if the notion strikes them and they see something, they'll take it. Never mind that is not something that they actually need.
Stay the course, everything she is doing is very normal for someone in MLC. You might want to visit some of the threads because many of the questions that you are asking...have been discussed by others. The resources thread by smurf has a lot of good info threads that may help answer your questions and help you better understand that there is no rhyme or reason for what they do. Why? Because they are emotional stunted individuals, they are emotionally all over the place and you can't rationalize w/some who is emotional. Also, trying to analyze their every action and/or comment will absolutely drive you nuts.
Keep the focus on you!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
In fact, he never took much of it ever I finally threw it out
He did look like he had bought some new stuff... clothes younger people would wear like a tight hoodie His ow was much younger so she may have picked it out
She may want to hurt you to get you to react...so she can validate her choice
I think many a MLCer wants the LBS to sit pining for them let her see you growing , making friends, doing things
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Hello, thank you for the responses. I asked her for her last two check stubs for the mortgage company. she is reluctant, and asked why they needed them. I told her that they needed them. I then texted her the following,
"I am not trying to meddle in your business. if it helps, I have no intentions to pursue you, or thinking that we can fix us. I know that you do not love me anymore, and I accept that. I am past that point now. I just want to get this all behind me at this point. I am glad you found happiness, and truly wish you all the best in life. I have no bad intentions towards you."
Did I do the wrong thing? I was trying to show detachment, in a way she would see. I felt like following up with how much I love her and wish she would come home, but thankfully I did not text anymore than that. surprisingly, she had no response at all.
I, personally wouldn't have sent it. I would have continued to show her that I had moved on. Actions speak louder than words. There is no guarantee that she actually sat down and read what you sent because if it's more than a sentence or two, their attention span is that of a gnat.
Now, leave it alone and don't say another word about moving on. Let's hope that she sends you the check stubs for the mortgage. If she doesn't contact the mortgage company yourself and inquire as to how you can get copies.
Keep the focus on you! Just leave her alone unless it's necessary to contact her about paperwork, etc. Otherwise, she's out there on her own for now.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
And it is amazing how little their attention span becomes. Gnat-like. Really.
You have requested she forward her stubs to the mortgage company. Good. Leave it alone. If she texts back asking why (again) don’t respond. You’ve already told her why.
A lot of times for things like this, financial matters, names on bills, etc., they do not want to cooperate. Give an opportunity and then find a way to look after it yourself. You cannot count on her to follow through or keep her word. MLCer do lie and forget; so it could be non culpable - but that matters little, you would still need to take care of things.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
I was trying to show detachment, in a way she would see. I felt like following up with how much I love her and wish she would come home, but thankfully I did not text anymore than that. surprisingly, she had no response at all.
I agree with you, it is good that you did not text anymore of your feelings.
G, you have made progress with detachment. Keep working on indifference.
I do understand and empathize with how much you love her and wish she would come home.
You are doing well my friend. An LBS’s progress is step by step, and takes time.
A suggestion for you. You need not “try” to show detachment. Do it. Be detached. It will show.
Focus on you.
Keep to your limited contact. And continue delaying responding for 24 to 48 hours. And then only to really important matters.
Did you block her on social media?
Stay strong.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Good morning, when dealing with my own depression, is it normal to think I am doing good, and have some good days where I feel like I am moving in the right direction and then BAM!!! I could not talk myself out of a wet paper bag? Saturday I got home from work and just felt down. I ended up staying in bed until Monday morning. I was just a mess, and could not think of anything positive, and I don't know why...
on the subject of detaching, I have read where they say to live as if they were never coming back. can someone expand on that for me. as to what lengths I should go...
when dealing with my own depression, is it normal to think I am doing good, and have some good days where I feel like I am moving in the right direction and then BAM!!! I could not talk myself out of a wet paper bag?
Oh yes. That is perfectly normal.
Depression is one of the five stages of grief.
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. They are not linear, and one does bounce around between them.
I found depression to be the worst stage. It was dark, crushing, and hard to get through.
It’s our emotions G. You feel good for a bit and then BAM, something from outside your consciousness comes up and you sink again. Those subconscious emotions and feelings are being sorted out. It’s the process to finding acceptance with your emotions. And it takes time.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
Saturday I got home from work and just felt down. I ended up staying in bed until Monday morning. I was just a mess, and could not think of anything positive, and I don't know why...
It is amazing just how much emotions influence, even rule, our lives.
We are both rational and irrational beings. Rational is within our direct control. Irrational we can only influence.
Grief is emotional turmoil and finding our way through it. So it reasons that we are at times beyond our own control or influence. Emotions can, and do, highjack us. Mental assertiveness does help. GAL does help. Focusing on yourself does help.
Detachment is needed. It is the biggest help. We detach from our spouse. We also detach, somewhat, from our own emotions - that’s the indifference part of this.
Through indifference we regain and exercise influence over ourselves. Slowly, step by step, walking our journey and out of the dark ensnaring fog.
I total understand and empathize with your inability to think of anything positive, and not know why. It is the very hallmark of depression. Despondency, low spirits, loss of hope, etc. This is normal. This is temporary, even though it doesn't feel that way.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
on the subject of detaching, I have read where they say to live as if they were never coming back. can someone expand on that for me. as to what lengths I should go...
I admit I was not a fan of this while depressed. In fact, I hated that statement.
It was the “never coming back” part. I focused upon the “never”, which just fed my depression.
What I missed, and I don’t mean didn’t read, I mean I didn’t understand or actually see - “as if”.
Live as if they were never coming back.
“As if” is make-believe. It allows one to find hope. It allows one to get unstuck and move forward.
Those two little words are hard to hear when one’s emotions are screaming and keeping your stuck in bed. Man, those were tough days.
So what lengths to go to?
You live your life as if she is never coming back.
You get up, and make your bed. You go to work.
You love yourself and your family.
You have fun. You have quality time with friends (mostly male at first, temptation is a real thing).
You go on vacations.
You watch movies.
You do projects you want to do. Things you have been putting off.
You try new things and projects. Something you always wanted to do, but could not find the time.
You heal yourself.
You choose better not bitter.
You become the best G you can be.
You focus on yourself and your life.
You let go.
You hope.
You stand.
The unwanted path you find yourself upon is difficult. It is also an incredible opportunity; one very few people ever experience. There are so many blessing upon this path that most LBS eventually consider it to be, and see it as, the gift it truly is.
Like all of us, journeys are travelled one step at a time, no matter where along the our path we are.
Keep moving forward. Keep detaching.
You are doing good.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
on the subject of detaching, I have read where they say to live as if they were never coming back. can someone expand on that for me. as to what lengths I should go...
My thread was titled "Why Keep Hope". For my own sanity I gave up on hope early on, and it allowed me to detach, improve, and rebound faster. This site is about providing hope, but I found that hope kept my focus on the wrong things. I don't know that there is a right way or wrong way to do this, but I like where my life is at.
Just look it up online , read about the 12 step program and decide if it could be useful to you They offer free online or phone meetings and many meetings will revolve around the same topics we discuss here GAL Detach Let go acceptance Heal and grieve
Good luck! Rooting for your full recovery from the depression
meditation is also helpful if you can listen online to learn how to meditate and practice it once -2 daily instead of caving up in bed
Discipline of self is a valuable tool to get through this process
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
You know one of the worst things about this is, she is my best friend. I find my self in a paradox. I have a problem with this MLC, and in my mind I wish I had her to talk to about it. I miss her company, I miss her being there when I get home.
You know one of the worst things about this is, she is my best friend. I find my self in a paradox. I have a problem with this MLC, and in my mind I wish I had her to talk to about it. I miss her company, I miss her being there when I get home.
I completely relate to this too, I don’t know if this will help, but maybe start having an internal dialogue with the “old” version of her. Tell her how you feel, how hard this is etc. and also keep noticing how this old version and current version are different. This was very helpful to me early on to both feel heard and to detach as I really could clearly see the reality of how my wife is not my friend as she is now. It’s all part of grieving and acceptance.
considering the person going through the MLC, does it matter if the person had a pretty strong-mature character prior to entering the tunnel. does this play a factor as to how long, and if they will finish their journey? my wife was always mature, strong, and level headed prior to this, which makes it all the more harder to under stand for me why this happened in the first place. I know she had no choice in the matter, but still hard to fathom.
Goonies, understandable to want answers, but there are none. A brilliant poster here used to quote "constant wondering is constant suffering." Some eventually want to return to their marriages, but most don't. I've been dealing with this for a long time. Mine circles in and circles out again. Doesn't seem to be able to move in any direction. He's highly intelligent and was a very stable person before. He became the opposite of everything he was and now appears to be slowly creeping back toward what he was. At a certain point, you just stop caring what they want and start thinking about you want. That feels like a better place to be.
It really doesn't matter what type of personality that they had pre-crisis. What triggers the crisis and what their childhood issues are. Crisis people have poor coping skills and didn't navigate their early 20's, 30's and even 40's very well and when they don't navigate them well, the major MLC will come around and take over their lives in a major way. A MLC doesn't just happen to married people, it can happen to anyone any where and all walks of life because those individuals were emotionally stunted at a young age by someone in authority. Try to remember that this crisis goes back to a time when she was a young girl and you weren't around to know what happened to her. When the crisis was beginning 18-24 months pre-crisis, the MLC was bubbling under the surface and eventually everything hit the fan. There was nothing you could do to stop it. She needs to go through the entire crisis. If you attempt to pull her back into the real world and she returns to her old self, I can assure you, she will go back into crisis at a later date and it will be far worse than what you are witnessing now.
So, how long does it take? It will take as long as it takes and you are on her clock now, which is slow. She is the one that is driving the bus while she is in crisis. She needs to come to terms w/whatever happened long ago and accept that she was not at fault for what happened, i.e, not good enough in grades, activities, sibling rivalry or abuse. Some will complete their journey and come out the other side more mature and more like themselves pre-crisis, others will return to earth and bring along some of their behaviors from crisis time and then there are others, who remain stuck. No one knows which ones return whole or which ones will remain stuck.
Bottom line, dig deeper for patience and keep the focus on you. You have your own journey to make, i.e., to rediscover Goonies. Leave her to her crisis.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
hello, I have a question. Since all this started she would contact me for things, mostly non-important. it was pretty consistent, that at least once a week she would either want to come by to pick something up, or text me. I have noticed that she has just stopped al together. I haven't heard from her at all. it has been 20 days now. does anyone know what is going on with her, should I be expecting the wrath to be unleashed at some point? because of the quarantine, I haven't been able to see the kids, a decision we both made, because I am still working, and am in contact with the public all day. I don't want to start over analyzing things, but could this be some transition point with her? I believe we are 20 months into her replay stage. any incite would be helpful, thank you.
Goonies, they usually go dark and disappear for long periods of time about the point where you are. Living that fun life and all. At some point, she will probably come forward and contact you again. Just live your life and keep moving forward.
hello, I have a question. Since all this started she would contact me for things, mostly non-important. it was pretty consistent, that at least once a week she would either want to come by to pick something up, or text me. I have noticed that she has just stopped al together. I haven't heard from her at all. it has been 20 days now. does anyone know what is going on with her, should I be expecting the wrath to be unleashed at some point? because of the quarantine, I haven't been able to see the kids, a decision we both made, because I am still working, and am in contact with the public all day. I don't want to start over analyzing things, but could this be some transition point with her? I believe we are 20 months into her replay stage. any incite would be helpful, thank you.
Looks like you are new ... I am the ghost of Christmas future.
So what she was/has been doing is checking to see if you are still holding the rope... she tugs it to see if its still attached, once she knows it is, she keeps on about her day/doings.
About the 20 month thing ... I get you are looking at the timeline and figuring out how to plot an estimate of when this is over ... I was the poster child for this, had an excel spreadsheet and everything and was bound determeined I could cure her and get her to wake up and come back to the marriage. It worked ... she came back after about 3-4 years and then I learned the most brutal of lessons. You can not increase the temperature to bake the cake ... turned out the outside it looked cooked ... but she was a gooey mess on the inside and back into the tunnel she went. All be told mine went into MLC Nov 2011 ish ..... and from what I can tell she came out for the most part Oct-Dec 2019.
I know its not the things you or anyone wants to hear but its her journey and you just have to focus more on you and how you can use this time to become the best version of you that you can be. You are new .. .looking for answers and you will find some of them here, in my experience with this I found most the answers within after I really focused on what I needed to do.
i feel like I am in h*ll. I just cant belive all of this crap. I hadent heard from her in over a month, and then she contacts me wanting to move forward with a divorce. I just cant understand al this. she wants me to meet her a notary Saturday to sign the papers. I don't want to. what am I supposed to do. refuse to sign them, just give up and cave in? I do not know know what to do at this point. I just cant belive the person she is today. I am so broken down. I think I am doing ok, working on me, but I keep getting kicked down. what am I supposed to do????
Last edited by job; 06/04/2006:58 PM. Reason: edited language
The divorce doesn't mean anything in your journey. It is horrible to go through but it changes nothing. Many marriages are restored after divorce, so you can keep standing if you want to stand.
The divorce is the business side of things. It is about how to divide what you own together and how to deal with the kids, etc. Do not sign anything without being sure it is an equitable split or at least exactly what you can live with as far as finances, accounts, property and kids.
Go scream into the forest and cry and pray and do whatever you need to but with her, stay calm. You can say, "I would be glad to look at the papers but I can't sign something so quickly. Please send me the papers and I will take a look and get back to you soon."
Keep in mind that many on these boards, such as DnJ, got a very good business deal by allowing the MLCer to proceed quickly. It is much better to let her finalize things before she realizes that she could "get more," or, as in my case, before she tries to get more and drives you out of your mind for two years doing it, even though she can't actually get more.
No rational person would create a business deal and then call the partner to demand he sign away his share two days later. Don't get sucked into her frenzied mania. But do make sure you get an equitable business deal and proceed as quickly as you can while being clear-headed. Read through the proposal slowly and propose the changes you need and get back to her quickly. Be ready to give way on a lot if it will help you avoid lawyers and judges, as you will waste a lot of time and money that way. Ask yourself how much you are willing to pay for peace and have that in your mind as you compromise. (And in the meantime, pull out half of all your savings and everything and put it in your own account, and block her use of your credit cards.) The love and marriage part will not change even if she ends the business side, if you choose to stand. She can come back with or without the divorce, and she can also not come back. I know how much it hurts, but you have to trust the rest of us who went through it and understand that it doesn't mean anything. Let the pain sweep over you but don't let her see your pain. You will get through it. Put on your business hat and look through everything, or ask a friend to do it with you if you can't think clearly. Take it to a couple lawyers and get their opinions on it as a way of seeing if there is a lawyer you want to work with.
Last edited by Gerda; 06/04/2006:29 PM.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Goonies I completely understand and can still remember feeling the exact same way. The day I received the divorce papers my world just fell apart, something I didn’t think was possible because it already had, so I thought. I couldn’t see anywhere to go and just couldn’t understand how It could every be fixed. How could H ever come out of this? Is there really any point in even trying? How did this even happen? And many many more questions. It still feels like that now at times but I have learnt that the best thing to do is first of all step back and breathe. Don’t sign anything today don’t do anything today just wait for your mind and emotions to catch up so that you can look at this calmly and as objectively as possible. Yes she’s now asking for a D but it won’t happen tomorrow or next week, you have time and it won’t be as bad as you think. Take my H he filed in November 17 and only now are we potentially close to reaching a financial agreement because he has stalled left, right and centre. Just remember not to look beyond tomorrow with her as she will be up and down with the craziness sending you a new curveball. I know that not a nice feeling but work on detachment and in time it will get easier to do.
G, you are on two paths. One of healing and one of business deal gone bad. Each path has their own timelines, constraints, hurdles, accomplishments, etc.
The business side needs to be treated as such - business. Divorce is just a deal gone bad or sideways. Keep your emotions out of any negotiations or dealings. And get a lawyer!
No matter what - DO NOT sign anything without your lawyer looking it over first.
Let me give you some specific suggestions and advice:
Originally Posted by GOONIES
i feel like I am in h*ll.
Yes, it feels like h3ll. It is not h3ll, just feels like it. Feelings do flit away when we stop reinforcing them. Feelings are not permanent.
Let the feelings wash over and through you. Then use your mental assertiveness to re-focus yourself. With practice and time this becomes much much easier. This is from a guy (me) who could barely do more than get through a day minute by minute. Trust me, it gets better!
Something to work on: Accuracy.
Work to see things with accuracy. The more clearly you see something, the better you can deal with it. Accuracy requires rationalizing. It brings whatever it is, into the realm of the rational, the realm of your direct control and influence. The realm of your thoughts and logic. (Less feelings, more thoughts).
For example, the feeling like h3ll. Instead, describe it more precisely. A terrible pain across and through my chest which spreads down each arm. Something like that, makes it more real, less vague, and therefore more within your grasp. And when seeing your feelings more accurately, you can see how you are reinforcing them. It takes time. Be patient and gentle on yourself.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
I just cant belive all of this crap.
Watch out what you say - for your mind is listening.
I know that ^^^ was more an expression than an actually accurate statement. However, your mind makes it real.
“I just can’t believe...” - gets reinforced within your subconscious mind and you won’t believe.
Very few things are accurately “can’t”. It’s actually “won’t”. Or cannot yet. Can’t is permanent and aside from “you can’ t get pregnant”, there isn’t much you can’t do.
Try is another one of those words that sneak in. Try - predestines us to fail. Use do or do not.
Can, can’t, will, won’t, do, don’t, try - they all have a different feeling and thought when you read them and speak them. Your mind is listening. Do use the correct word, and the one you want/need to hear.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
I hadent heard from her in over a month, and then she contacts me wanting to move forward with a divorce. I just cant understand al this. she wants me to meet her a notary Saturday to sign the papers.
Her being in a rush, or not being in a rush, does not dictate your actions.
Business deal gone bad. Keep your emotions out of it. Find detachment.
So what if she is suddenly in a rush. She’s been silent for over a month. Don’t worry about her needing things signed tomorrow.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
I don't want to. what am I supposed to do. refuse to sign them, just give up and cave in? I do not know know what to do at this point.
I suspect you have a lawyer by this point (if not, get one!)
Do not sign anything this quickly. And for sure have your L look it over.
Any paperwork should be sent to your L, not you. Have W send stuff to L. Your L and her L should be hashing this out. That’s what you pay him/her for. It also puts a nice buffer in place which helps with detachment.
Be detached and indifferent when dealing with this business. Yeah, when we are hurting, like you are now, it is very difficult to focus and act in our best interests. Our emotions get in the way. We don’t see all that clearly. A lawyer usually does. Seek legal guidance.
If you need financial security or protection - get it.
If things are financial ok, and you don’t see any huge pending disruption, let her do the heavy lifting.
However, as was said before - I am one of the ones that got a good deal. If your W is offering a good deal - take it. Her path is a long one. She might exit the tunnel and may even want to come back; that is a long time away. She may also never exit the tunnel. It’s her journey.
Point is, usually, the MLCer is more willing to negotiate/offer in your favour early on. The time when they are more guilty feeling. You might want to consider that if she does indeed make a good offer.
Divorce is only paper. It doesn’t preclude future possibilities.
Originally Posted by GOONIES
I just cant belive the person she is today. I am so broken down. I think I am doing ok, working on me, but I keep getting kicked down.
With complete empathy my friend. Who is kicking you down? Who do you feel is? Who do you think is?
Originally Posted by GOONIES
what am I supposed to do????
Keep getting back up.
Continue working on you.
Focus on you.
Detach and find indifference.
Walk the path of healing.
Walk the path of business.
G, this is a hard and horrible road to journey. And I guarantee you, it is much worth all the efforts.
You are doing well. Stay strong. Listen and heed the counterintuitive advice.
DnJ
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
