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A Message from Michele
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Scout's QLC journey #2 #2873824
11/29/19 12:10 PM
11/29/19 12:10 PM
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scout12 Online OP
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Thread #1

To kick off thread #2, here's some relevant reading on adult attachment styles. This excerpt pretty much describes the dynamic between H and I that lead to the breakdown of the R.

Quote
Additional studies have investigated chronic stress—especially the transition to parenthood [39]. Having a baby is a joyful but chronically stressful experience, making it ideal to test stress-diathesis processes, particularly if attachment insecurity makes individuals more vulnerable to personal and interpersonal problems [40]. Indeed, highly anxious women enter the transition to parenthood perceiving lower levels of spousal support, which predicts sharper declines in marital satisfaction [41,42] and increases in depressive symptoms [43,44] across the transition. Their husbands show parallel effects, including declines in both marital satisfaction and support-provision over time. Highly avoidant individuals—especially men—who believe their newborn is interfering with their personal or work lives [41] or who perceive they are doing too much childcare [45] also report steep declines in marital satisfaction. Less avoidant individuals (who tend to be more secure) report much smaller postnatal changes in satisfaction and depressive symptoms.

In sum, specific situations/events during the transition to parenthood tend to activate or exacerbate the cardinal concerns of highly anxious and highly avoidant people—abandonment/loss for anxious persons, and lack of autonomy/independence for avoidant persons—which in turn have negative effects on their marital satisfaction and depressive symptoms over time.


I believe H's attachment style is dismissive-avoidant.
Quote
Avoidant: High on avoidance, low on anxiety. Uncomfortable with closeness and primarily values independence and freedom; not worried about partner’s availability. “I am uncomfortable being close to others. I find it difficult to trust and depend on others and prefer that others do not depend on me. It is very important that I feel independent and self-sufficient. My partner wants me to be more intimate than I am comfortable being.”


Mine might be described as secure with anxious tendencies.
Quote
Secure: Low on avoidance, low on anxiety. Comfortable with intimacy; not worried about rejection or preoccupied with the relationship. “It is easy for me to get close to others, and I am comfortable depending on them and having them depend on me. I don’t worry about being abandoned or about someone getting too close to me.”

Anxious: Low on avoidance, high on anxiety. Crave closeness and intimacy, very insecure about the relationship. “I want to be extremely emotionally close (merge) with others, but others are reluctant to get as close as I would like. I often worry that my partner doesn’t love or value me and will abandon me. My inordinate need for closeness scares people away.


It's possible that we brought out the worst in each other and that this was always doomed to fail; it just needed a trigger point.


W32
X30
S2

June 2019 | Runaway husband
May 2020 | Legal separation
Xmas 2020 | Divorce hearing
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: scout12] #2873841
11/29/19 03:02 PM
11/29/19 03:02 PM
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Relationships are hard and Ive seen it with friends and family
when a baby enters, sometimes the first, many more times the second
A spouse,,,usually the H but we see plenty of wives here, the spouse seems to snap
usually around 40
like MLC,
If it is based on unresolved childhood issues, it probably would have happened no matter what the circumstances
even if a person is single at time of crises
Many cant/wont get therapy to heal the issues from past...crises
I really believe this

so if we M a person with little skills and coping
one who is avoidant and my XH had many characteristics that I overlooked when dating and M
But it is sometimes hard to see clearly when younger and in love

You are doing fabulous
You are right on track, smart and intuitive
as well as very young and you will create a better life with or without Him

I believe many of these MLCer will not fully recover(unless they get hardcore help)
and if we stay with them, this will repeat


married 14 years
H 42
bomb 2/07 IDLYA
D final 3 /09
M ow D ow
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: scout12] #2873855
11/29/19 05:05 PM
11/29/19 05:05 PM
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That avoidant/anxious attachment can be a useful construct. HOWEVER there is a lot more wrong with your H than just an Avoidant attachment style. Seriously, please read The Sociopath Next Door and also consider the possibility of bipolar disorder.

Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: scout12] #2873925
11/30/19 01:55 AM
11/30/19 01:55 AM
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Gerda Offline
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From my post on a couple other threads -- I am reading these now and they are helping me a lot. There are some cheesy or corny parts but it is helping me so much to become aware of my wounds, pre and post H, and to start to heal them. One is called, You Can Thrive After Narcissistic Abuse and the other is called, Whole Again. What I like about them is they are not so focused on diagnosing the abuser, but rather on healing your own wounds -- including those that predated your H and may have led you to him.

I think it's also important not to rewrite history. That's what the MLCer does. You don't have to figure out every bad thing in the past, just heal yourself and find that freedom and peace. (I am the first to admit that that is the hardest thing ever!)


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: kml] #2874009
12/01/19 02:53 AM
12/01/19 02:53 AM
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scout12 Online OP
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Originally Posted by kml
HOWEVER there is a lot more wrong with your H than just an Avoidant attachment style.



This made me chuckle, thank you for keeping it real. Lol.

I went to a pool party with a group of girlfriends and all our kids yesterday. Two of them work with H. I swear I’m not keeping tabs on him through them; we were friends already, and have gotten closer since H left me. We had a great time swimming with the kids then having cocktails, a cheese platter, and chats afterwards.

My friend told us her husband had just returned early from a two-week bachelor party trip to Japan after the groom-to-be spent the night in a red-light district. His wedding is in a couple of weeks and he has a newborn at home with his fiancée. Friend said her husband was so disgusted that that confronted his cheating friend, punched him in the face, and cancelled the rest of the trip. What a guy!

Inevitably, talk did turn to H. They said their workplace is really dysfunctional and the problems come from the top down. He ignores direct requests from his employees, refuses to address problems, won’t look people in the eye when speaking, doesn’t nurture or train his staff, procrastinates on completing basic tasks, sits in the office all day and only comes onto the shop floor when upper management or sales reps are visiting so he can kiss ass. He is draconic about employees using their phones during work hours but apparently never puts his down. He cracks down on rumours about personal relationships at work and accuses his employees of bullying others (including OW before she quit). He is openly applying for every possible job opportunity to try and escape his current situation. In short - he sounds like an absolutely terrible manager. He always made out that he was the company’s golden boy. Hmm.

The week that H left, I received a promotion to management. The leadership training and education I’ve received in the last six months has definitely contributed to my healing. I only manage a small team, but people management takes a lot of time and effort. I know I’m a good manager. A rising tide lifts all boats, as the saying goes, and I try to apply that to my role.

One friend messaged me after she left to say she was so sorry she hadn’t warned me about the OW when she first started to suspect. I assured her there was nothing to be sorry about and that H is the only one who has anything to apologise for. She said if she had concrete proof she would have exposed them to upper management. I just thanked her. She reassured me that I deserve a much better man and that H will get hit by the karma train at some point.

Good friends are priceless.


W32
X30
S2

June 2019 | Runaway husband
May 2020 | Legal separation
Xmas 2020 | Divorce hearing
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: scout12] #2874010
12/01/19 03:08 AM
12/01/19 03:08 AM
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Quote
You are doing fabulous
You are right on track, smart and intuitive
as well as very young and you will create a better life with or without Him


Thank you peacetoday. I am so excited for Christmas this year and I don’t miss H at all. Perhaps as the holidays get closer, more emotions will surface. I’m planning to host an open home every night during Christmas week as a way of thanking my friends and family for their support this year. But also because it just sounds joyful and fun!

My message:

I have never been more thankful for my friends and family than I have this year. My life has been blessed beyond measure with love, fellowship, and good fortune. I want to demonstrate the same generosity of spirit in return. Nobody ought to be alone on Christmas, so let's be alone together!

S1 and I are extending an open invitation to all our family and friends between 22-28 December. If you find yourself lonely or idle in the evenings, we will be getting into the Christmas spirit from 5pm every night. Feel free to join us for food, drinks, music, games, presents, and lots of fun and laughter. Just message me for our address and turn up whenever you feel like some Christmas cheer. S1 and I would love to see you, one and all. Wishing you and yours a joyful holiday season!


W32
X30
S2

June 2019 | Runaway husband
May 2020 | Legal separation
Xmas 2020 | Divorce hearing
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: Gerda] #2874013
12/01/19 03:19 AM
12/01/19 03:19 AM
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scout12 Online OP
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Originally Posted by Gerda

I think it's also important not to rewrite history. That's what the MLCer does. You don't have to figure out every bad thing in the past, just heal yourself and find that freedom and peace. (I am the first to admit that that is the hardest thing ever!)


Chump Lady calls that ‘untangling the skein’. You’re right, it’s not necessary. She says the goal of detachment is ‘meh’ and I think I’m close to that place. I can reflect on the past without getting hung up on it.


W32
X30
S2

June 2019 | Runaway husband
May 2020 | Legal separation
Xmas 2020 | Divorce hearing
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: scout12] #2874018
12/01/19 04:47 AM
12/01/19 04:47 AM
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Gerda Offline
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Originally Posted by scout12
[quote]
My message:

I have never been more thankful for my friends and family than I have this year. My life has been blessed beyond measure with love, fellowship, and good fortune. I want to demonstrate the same generosity of spirit in return. Nobody ought to be alone on Christmas, so let's be alone together!

S1 and I are extending an open invitation to all our family and friends between 22-28 December. If you find yourself lonely or idle in the evenings, we will be getting into the Christmas spirit from 5pm every night. Feel free to join us for food, drinks, music, games, presents, and lots of fun and laughter. Just message me for our address and turn up whenever you feel like some Christmas cheer. S1 and I would love to see you, one and all. Wishing you and yours a joyful holiday season!


That's so funny, I decided to do something really similar at my house! I am doing it every other week on Thursdays all winter.


I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living.
Wait for the Lord with courage.
Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: scout12] #2874110
12/01/19 11:54 PM
12/01/19 11:54 PM
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scout12 Online OP
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Just journalling as the memories come up.

When we decided to start trying for a baby, I went all in. Tracking ovulation, daily temping, fertility windows etc. Having a better understanding of how my body worked, and the miracles it could perform, was empowering. It was like playing the lottery every month knowing that one day you will eventually win. Exciting!

The day before I got a positive pregnancy test result, on our fifth cycle of trying, we had a huge fight. We were driving to dinner and I mentioned how my basal body temperature was still raised which indicated a good chance of pregnancy. I explained the science behind it and said wasn't it just so cool? I was so excited and said I couldn't wait to take a test the following morning because I just had a good feeling about this cycle.

Throughout this conversation H was silent and withdrawn. Eventually he blew up and said I was ruining this experience for him. I had taken something that was supposed to be fun and spontaneous and turned it into a science experiment. He was sick of hearing about my periods and having sex on a schedule. He made me feel like absolute garbage and the evening ended with me crying my eyes out and apologising to him.

He would often use the phrase "There are two people in this relationship" as a trump card in arguments. It would inevitably cut me down in my tracks and bring me so much guilt that I'd fall over myself apologising for being selfish and thoughtless.

The next morning I took the test and it was positive. I was happy, of course, but it was tempered by the ugliness of the previous night. His response was weird. He just said "We're going to have a little one" and tried to initiate celebratory sex. While he was at work that day, I decided to make up for my transgression. I blew up about 100 balloons to fill our bedroom. I hung bunting on the walls. I bought a tiny onesie withe 'my dad rocks' written on it. I also bought a little baby groot figurine because H loved superhero movies and thought that character was really cute. So I put together this nice display to surprise him when he got home.

For his part, he surprised me with a similar display a few days later. A card with a 'bun in the oven' joke, a bottle of my favourite perfume, flowers, and candles. That is a nice memory. He knew that cards meant a lot to me, and always put a lot of effort into them, even though he couldn't care less about receiving them himself. Although that gesture is tainted now after the card I received on our third anniversary, just two weeks before BD. In it, he had written 'love you to the moon and back'. After BD, I asked him what he meant by that message if, as he claimed, he had been unhappy for years. He replied that he just did it because it was expected of him. Phew!


W32
X30
S2

June 2019 | Runaway husband
May 2020 | Legal separation
Xmas 2020 | Divorce hearing
Re: Scout's QLC journey #2 [Re: scout12] #2874118
12/02/19 01:12 AM
12/02/19 01:12 AM
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Hey Scout,

Glad to hear you're killing it with your GAL! Pool party sounds like a blast. Ssssoooo hot here now isnt it!

It seems the goss suggests your H is spiralling. How does that make you feel?

That invitation message you sent to your friends about your open house was really touching. Your friends and family are lucky to have you, and that's going to bring such joy to your little one having so much lovely interaction. It's my first xmas too without family, so we'll see how that goes.

Your memories about conception and pregnancy brought back memories for me too. I'm sorry H's attitude was such that they weren't as good as they could have been for you. You really tried, didn't you, but it seems H's heart wasn't really in it, and it was always just about him. That's sad.

You've come far Scout - good on you and keep going!

Cheers, DS


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
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