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Good Morning Remo

I have four kids as well; three sons ages 22, 21, & 18, and a daughter age 17.

Thank you filling in some of the blanks. A 20 year relationship and then a BD is quite a shock to recover from; it takes some time. Iím glad you see the value in detachment and not to worry we all plead and beg at first. And we all get the same noneffective results.

The removing or wearing of the wedding ring is a personal choice. Either way may or may not affect your MLCer wife. That advice is truth of everything. One doesnít completely know what affect out actions will have on the MLCer or anyone for that matter. That is why everything you do, do it for you. That way no matter what happens, how this all turns out, you will be alright.

You do not want to manipulate her path. I know it is tempting to try to speed things along, at best your efforts would be neutral, the most common and most likely result would be to prolong her journey. She has lots to figure out, and needs space and time. And she will take it.

That is the perspective of advice and suggestions. They are for you and your healing; and give the best chance for your marriage/relationship.

Todayís post on my thread started as a response to you. It got rather deep, rather fast. smile

Your W has unilaterally decided that you two are in house separated and free to do as each of you wish. And that no longer qualifies as cheating. Really?!? You can see how manipulative she is being - right?

The vast majority of MLCers have affairs (sorry). It means nothing to them. The MLCer is running from their pain and sex is fun and therefore viewed as happiness. Of course they are wrong, happiness comes from within oneís self not externally. However, that realization is quite some time from her finding it.

Affair partners are a symptom of MLC. Do not give them any power or hold over you.

With what your W has said, it is pretty likely she is in an affair - emotional or physical. She has given permission for you cheat on your marriage and vows. You were not in an open marriage before, do not start one now.

When she made this decision what did you say? How are you approaching this?

Iím guessing you were meek and timid about rocking the boat. Itís ok.

Advice for you. Do not be a doormat. She can have an affair, she do whatever she wants. However, she cannot treat you like a doormat and walk all over you - unless you allow it.

Find a time to reopen this discussion and let her know your views. By the way, posting here first answers to her questions or what you are planning to say to her allows your to get feedback and tune your response. People here have really good ideas, seek them out.

So reopen this topic and let her know that you do not agree with her. You see either of you having a relationship outside of the marriage as cheating. And if she is cheating you do not want her in the master bedroom.

We do require more information from you as to what and where you actually are to give a more thoughtful and reasoned response. Things like how to get her to leave the master bedroom for example.

That might sound wrong. Thatís ok. This is counterintuitive, it feels wrong, it goes against everything youíve previous done to resolve past conflicts and had success with. Remember she is in crisis, she is not the same person you know. An MLCer is ruled by their emotions in everything they do. Attempting to reason or rationalize with them is pointless.

She is looking to leave. She needs to taste that. To see what that means. Become a roommate - kind not mean, but a roommate relationship.

With that in mind I would take off your wedding ring. She doesnít want to be faithful. She mentioned that maybe in five years she would feel different, maybe regret things. You can see her emotions at work, and she is buying time, leading you along, trying to keep you as Plan B. Do not be her Plan B. You are Plan A.

This is difficult, she needs to come to conclusions and decision on her own. Space and time to see and figure stuff out. You control you and your actions. Boundaries where warranted. If she is with someone else sheís not going to be with you. That is your mindset.

Focus on you and your kids.

As for casual sex. No!

This is cheating. You didnít partake before, do not start now. Keep your side of the street clean, and be true to yourself and your values.

You want to be a lighthouse. Then be a lighthouse.

Again, itís ok. Use the board to vent, to ask questions, gain insights, explore different ideas before you implement them. That is wise use of your time. Be patient.

Something you need to do. Get tested for STD. Yeah, I know. Not a nice feeling. Just about everyone here goes through this. Make sure you are healthy, and realize the possible risks now.

Your description of her past yearís behaviours rings true for MLC. She is running from her age, attempting to relive her youth. Read otherís stories; it is amazing how eerily similar MLCers are.

Remo, you are just at the start of your path. Do take care of yourself, the gym and dance classes are a great ideas. As well as ensuring she does not find and read any of this advice. She will see it in the worse possible light. To an MLCer there is nothing wrong with them - itís everyone elseís fault or problem.

Focus on you and your kids, and keep working towards detachment.

Stay strong.

DnJ


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

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I still struggle with this question. I have decided to keep mine on. I am standing. It is a symbol of our marriage. As far as forming a new relationship, my therapist says it best: "do you really want to bring another human being into this mess?" There was a time not to long ago when I might have said I don't care if I hurt another human being. I want what I want. That isn't the case anymore. I would never want to hurt anyone else in this mess. Since I have decided to stand, I would form a relationship knowing that one day I would throw them to the side if the chance came to reconcile with w. Not for me. Wait... Is that growth? Lol

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Wow, lots to think about! I'm so freaking happy I found this board!

To answer some of the questions,

Thanksgiving was civil, I usually do the cooking and nothing Dramatic happened.

When my wife dropped the bomb it was her suggestion that we sleep in different rooms, with us alternating in the basement. I insisted that I would sleep in the basement so if the kids asked I could blame it on me snoring.

When she spoke of anything going forward would not be considered cheating, my response was; "easy for you to say because you know I don't have a cheating bone in my body and would never take you up on that offer"

Is it wise to try to engage the MLCer to engage in conversations about themselves? Such as "how was your day?" Talk. About events that they have keen interest in...just regular small talk with the focus being on them.

Thanks again everyone.

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Just wanted to add that on occasion I do ask how her day was and it is usually met quite positively by her. Sometimes she talks for a few minutes venting if it has been a trying day. On the other side, I occasionally get a short answer as well, I never pursue further questioning after that.
Thoughts?

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Hi AT, sounds like you're handling things well. I'd say carry on as you are, not pushing things.

Again, I'm not a vet at this. Any thoughts vets?


~Never Give Up ~
2019
Mar BD
June BD
Dec Aow/xgf
2020
Jan he wants D
Feb he flys2 ow
Mar returns stuck here C19 Lckdwn
Apr he leaves for work until Nov
Oct D FINAL 2020
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Good Morning Aurora

Conversing is fine. Letting her talk/vent about her day is good stuff.

Just remember not to push her or pressure her, let her share what she wants. You are to be the safe place for her to land.

Watch out for relationship talks - even ones she brings up - especially those. Until she is demonstrating consistency in her behaviour towards you, kids, sleeping arrangements, life, etc... she isnít ready to delve into that. For the time being R talks are more of a trap and used to further a crisis personís justifications for their actions.

If you pay attention and let her talk she will say lots. As she feels more and more secure she will let slip more and more. Stay non judgement - a tough task, depending on what may be revealed.

Remember - do more of what works and less of what doesnít.

Youíve mentioned that as youíve detached more she is opening up more. Good stuff.

Keep moving forward and see what happens. I am sure more will be revealed in time. Dig for patience and do your inner work.

Inner work. Thatís the successful path. Be the best man you will be.

DnJ


Now: Me54 XW51 S25 S23 S21 D20

Oct 8/17-BD, Moves in w/OM, Leaves Kids
Me49 W46 S20 S19 S16 D15
M26 T29
Dec 9/17-Legal Separation
Oct 3/18-W Files
Apr 6/19-Divorced

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I don't have an answer for the Q regarding sex. But with the ring- my experience was that H took it off first way before BD and he gave me a believable reason (at the time). And after BD I felt extremely hurt and vengeful so I took mine off after a few days as well. But in the last R talk that I initiated, H actually said he wants to file, and commented that I took the ring off and said the ring was his glimmer of hope in us. Basically blaming me for throwing our hope away. Which totally didn't make sense to me because he's had his ring off this whole time!! Which I just added to the many things on the list of things I cannot reason with him right now. But after the D word I actually chose to put my ring back on, and I told H that I'm still in this, I'm not giving up. I said that I will take it off when our M is truly over.


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Hi Aurora

Sorry you're here mate. I just thought I'd chime in and offer some support for you. Some of the aspects of your sitch rang a bell with mine, especially regarding this happening on a milestone birthday. Is your W into horoscopes or numerology by any chance?

It sounds like your W is a lot less aggressive than mine though and I'm glad to hear her anger has abated. I found I could tell how bad it was by looking into my XW's eyes. Do not fight the anger if it comes out of her, just do all you can to validate her feelings (no matter how crazy they are), and leave if it gets bad. Don't try to defend or justify either. Just listen.

FWIW I took my ring off after a few weeks. I didnt want to, but I had this weird feeling of embarassment and shame, like XW was scorning me for leaving it on after the hammerings she gave me.

Anyway, good luck mate.


Me: early 40's
XW: nearly 50
T: 15
M: 5
BD: Jan 19
S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
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Hi everyone,

First let me just say thank you to everyone who has been passing along their words of wisdom not only to me but to all those in need. In time as things progress in my sitch I too hope to pass along some words of encouragement as well.

My sitch is the same at home, generally speaking we are civil but a couple times a day the wife gives me a couple jabs that I take in stride. With four kids and living under the same roof we have a lot to do with another even if it is mainly business with some small talk initiated by her, NO R TALK.

My wife has been talking about getting away for a weekend by herself (whether it's with friends or with a OM I don't know and don't care)there are some small logistics that would have to be worked out with me. I can easily accommodate this so she can go, and to be honest I think I would like to have leave for a spell. From what I have learned on this board, at the end of the day she is going to go if she wants to anyway. I am wondering if it would be wise to offer my help because of how she may perceive it. I figure one of the following scenarios would occur;

1) She takes my offer and of course expresses NO gratitude and has a weekend to reflect or possibly go deeper into the tunnel.

2) she responds negatively to my offer because she doesn't need my help. I somehow think this is the least likeLy to happen.

3) she sees me as a doormat

4) she sees me as being OK with her replay behavior

5) if I make sure to convey to her that I want her to leave so I can have a fun weekend with the kids(which is the truth) perhaps I come across as GALing.

Your thoughts are most welcomed,

Thank you in advance,

AuroraTrout

Last edited by job; 11/24/19 08:44 PM. Reason: added space between paragraphs
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Forgot a sixth scenario:

6) could she view it as supportive

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