Midlife wife crisis12

[Wolfman]

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2872254&page=11

[Wolfman]

Job can you open midlife wife crisis 11 so I can link them. It’s closed.

[Wolfman]

LH I don’t think she will ever have a change of heart. Today I noticed she started to take down our wedding pictures. She has moved on. I am a thing of the past. I just have to accept my new reality. It’s so sad that all of our friends have told me she is crazy for leaving me. But obviously she doesn’t see it. She is living life going out all the time and living it up. Again just aggravates me if she wanted a party life why get married?? I know LH I’m using logic and she is not, I could have been with so many other women and probably been really happy and still married. Instead I found the one who decided married life was not for her and she wants to be 21 again!!

IH I grew up in Smithtown and went to a smithtown HS. That’s where I am living now back at my moms house. There is a bar in Smithtown, Napper Tandy’s. Let me know when you will be in town exactly!! First beer is on me. You are always here for me, it’s the least I could do. Lol

Anyway, I knew eventually the wedding pictures would be coming down, we are not married, it just hurts!!
Ok I’m about to share something that you guys will kick my butt on. I have been dating this one woman for a while and she is younger than me. I am so scared that this MLC could happen again.

[LH19]

W,

How do you think it’s fair to this woman when your still hung up on your ex wife?

[Wolfman]

W,

How do you think it’s fair to this woman when your still hung up on your ex wife?

I know. I think about that all the time. I feel like I will never be fully healed and I just need to move on. I really like this woman she is amazing. Honestly the 2 things that upsets me is leaving my home. LH I know I should have listened to you. And the family dynamic I really miss. I’m hoping once I get my own place and the kids can stay over night I will start to feel whole again. Well partially.

[LH19]

W,

I'll start of with saying absolutely when you get your own place things will start to normalize for you.

Did you really think your W was going to keep your wedding pictures up? After all you have been through your mind decides it's over she has moved on because she took them down.

So in the past you have mentioned that your W has made comments about how you're selfish. You see you discount her claims but what you are now doing to this girl is selfish. I'll say it again. YOU ARE NOT READY TO DATE. You're very needy and insecure and until you learn to stand alone you will struggle in relationships. This is a process and there are no shortcuts.

If you were in a healthy place and you met an amazing woman it would be a amazing experience for you. The last thing you would be doing would be being on a forum upset about someone taking some pictures down.

[Wolfman]

LH you are probably right. That I am not ready. Honestly I am lost. I am trying real hard to just get my act together.

Yesterday my xw had the kids. Usually I would text her twice to ask how the kids were. She would do the same when I have them. But I felt like I need to truly detach. So yesterday I decided I am not going to text her. Around 9pm she text me if I was ok. I didn’t respond. The. About 10 minutes later she called and I didn’t answer. She left a message and it said that she hasn’t heard for me all day and wanted to make sure I was ok. Then about 5 minutes later my d called me. And she asked if I was ok they haven’t heard from me. I said yes everything is fine and I asked how she was. The. I asked to speak with my s. After I was done speaking with him, xw got on the phone and asked if I was ok. I said everything is fine and she said I didn’t hear from you. I responded just been really busy. Then she said I am busy taking care of my mom I have to go. She was annoyed and said fine and hung up. What’s this about??? Please advise.

[LH19]

It’s about your lack of ability to communicate. Wife I need time to heal and move on, I don’t want you contacting me on a daily basis. Get your kids phones if you have to. You have to get a backbone my friend. You are so afraid of her.

[AnotherStander]

I have been dating this one woman for a while and she is younger than me. I am so scared that this MLC could happen again.

It could very well happen again. Here's my attitude as beautifully expressed by Tennyson: "'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." My XW and I, we had a great marriage and 3 amazing kids. The marriage came to an end and it was unfortunate and it was painful, but I choose to look back on the M with fondness. So many great memories. 5 years ago I embarked on a new R, it's been so radically different than my R with XW. Better in some ways, not as good in others maybe. Fulfilling in different ways than my M. Life is a crazy adventure of unpredictable events, these days I roll with it and see where it takes me

[Wolfman]

It’s about your lack of ability to communicate. Wife I need time to heal and move on, I don’t want you contacting me on a daily basis. Get your kids phones if you have to. You have to get a backbone my friend. You are so afraid of her.

Your right I am afraid of her. I wasn’t during our marriage that’s the funny thing. Once things started to fall apart I went into panic mode trying to appease her every wish. What’s your feeling on why she is contacting me? She literally just text me.
I will not bother you anymore... just like you said to me, I’m here...
I did not respond. The nice guy in me feels so bad not responding. But I know its what I have to do.

AS I hate that expression about love. Losing love is very painful. I honestly don’t know what’s better.
Another Stander would you ever get back with your ex? Just asking because you said better in some ways and not in others.

[LH19]

Because WWs are fuching annoying little knats that will be buzzing around your head until you’re children are grown.

Right now you are not emotionally strong enough to handle it so put a stop to it now.

[sandi2]

Today I noticed she started to take down our wedding pictures. She has moved on.

So, you are still going in the house? Remember the long post about why you should stop going into the house? It tears you apart, and you set yourself up for all the cr@p she wants to throw at you about the kids or whatever. It's hard to feel sorry for someone who won't try to follow advice. How do expect to ever detach from all her drama?

She is living life going out all the time and living it up. Again just aggravates me if she wanted a party life why get married??

See what I mean?

I know LH I’m using logic and she is not, I could have been with so many other women and probably been really happy and still married. Instead I found the one who decided married life was not for her and she wants to be 21 again!!

Well.........doesn't sound as if you are being all that logical.

Anyway, I knew eventually the wedding pictures would be coming down, we are not married, it just hurts!!

So, what's your next move? Are you going to continue to go over to her house, so you can look around? Your kids are plenty big enough to go out to the car when you pick them up.

[LovingIt]

I know LH I’m using logic and she is not, I could have been with so many other women and probably been really happy and still married. Instead I found the one who decided married life was not for her and she wants to be 21 again!!

I had the same conversation with my friend about this... reminiscing through all the girls we used to hang out with. Having read all the threads on here... odds are likely that someone else would have turned out the same :P At least that's my view of the world right now.

[LH19]

Try to remember that you wouldn’t have your kids if you were never married to your W. Also did you maybe think quite possibly she’s doing you a favor?

[IHCLACS]

^^^^ This right here. Learned that lesson the hard way 3 GF's ago in my 20's before XW. Mom Dad and brother always said as a matter of loyalists, despite some of our petty divisions in family. "Don't love someone romantically who doesn't love you back. They did you a favor" They would always say. Took me a few tries to experience it to really understand that. Probably why even though in my posts I was spinning a bit for the last year because of attachment, but.. definately handling it and the whole D process a hell of a lot better than my first breakup. First breakup was nightmares, suck stomach, felt like somebody punched me, anxiety far worse then M D bomb last year. Only difference is. This person will never completely go away because of children, and the risks are far greater in dividing a family, CS, etc. So it takes longer to detach. But truthfully? Anyone. And I mean anyone that walks into my life romantically. Doesn't matter if its and ex or a future candidate. When people stay its because they want to, and when they go, its because they want to also. So take it for what it's worth. They are doing you a favor by cutting you loose so you don't have to be miserable with them for the rest of your life.

[ToSmile]

Hi Wolf,

Actually for me myself, I feel my divorce will be a fact really soon when the papers are served. My wife told me that she deliberately held back the serving of the papers to December thus as it is the year end school holidays, it will cause lesser disruption for my kids for our relocation.

Sometimes I will look back and think, if given a chance to walk this path again and the outcome is similar, will I still marry my wife? The answer is yes, because of my 2 beautiful kids.

Till this point, I think that we just have to learn dropping the pain and be selfish, in the manner of self-heal. Apart from the kids and all, it's to start loving ourselves before others, then we are able to love other people in that way again. Until we can see our ex wife like a ex gf that you would be more ready.

Friends tried to cheer me up by telling me that I should start dating and they will help me to babysit my children. It's time to get a new girl. I told them nah I am not ready. Because I do not need a rebound which would be unfair to everyone and taking other party as a substitute or replacement. And Genuinely, I do feel scared and tired as well. If the next one would be similar crap ^_^!

So for now, focus on healing yourself. Focus on the positive gain out of this episode in your life. For now, I am looking at the new found freedom I will soon be having, to do what I'll want to do without being nag, no sudden emotional attack and probably one lesser "kid" to worry after in future ( At times, I felt the responsibility of taking care of 3 kids as my wife was like 1 as well)

[IHCLACS]

What ToSmile says here resonates from a Man's perspective as well Wolf. About being solo, no longer being nagged, bothered with unrealistic demands and expectations, "IM NOT HAPPY!" (Well sweetheart that's not my responsibility. Its yours.) Finding yourself. Doing things on your own merit and independence without co dependency, avoiding rebounding, but still being social and getting to know new people and making new friends (If they and you are willing.) "As if the next one will be similar crap" (Because most men and women typically but not always, follow the same societal imperatives and narratives in general depending on where they are at, and how old they are in life from what I've observed in all this.) More emotional stability. (These sich's bring unwanted drama.) Feeling scared and tired. (Now is a good time to be alone to get your life right.) But I mean if you want some company, have some company. Just don't over promise or commit to something you know you can't deliver on. Looking at the XW as an EX GF as you detach and appreciate what they did offer you in your life rather than what they didn't. (Its a learning experience in a chapter of your life.) Its all true in a sense.

[IronWill]

Hey Wolf -

Sorry to hear you are still struggling. Accepting that your MR is over takes some of us a lot longer than others. In time, you will get there.

I would suggest that you not date. Not yet. You haven't fully grieved what you had. It is a step in the process that cannot be avoided, skipped, or ignored. Otherwise you will end up projecting all of the issues from your MR onto the new R, even though you may not see it right away. This will be very unhealthy for you, and I believe it will be even more difficult for you when you start to see those same problems surface in the new R.

I have few questions I have been asking myself since all this happened. These questions may help you as well -

"Who am I, really?"
"What makes me the individual I am?"
"What do I want out of life?"

And the most important question...

"What am I supposed to be learning from all this?"

Hope some of these help.

Keep strong, man. Take care

[IHCLACS]

All good points IW. Never make the same mistakes twice, learn and grow, and take the time to figure out what you want. Time is precious

[Wolfman]

Thank you everyone for your comments and responses. Haven’t been on in a while. Just been busy. So i decided to go away for thanksgiving. I needed a break from living at home with my handicapped mom, from the ex and just time for me. I have to laugh the other day at 7pm I got a call from my ex. I did not answer it. Then she has my d call. I did not answer it. That is her thing now, when I don’t answer she has my d call me. So I waited 10 minutes and called my d back. My d asked if I was in the house at some time today. I said absolutely not, why? She said when they got home the back door was open and the alarm was going off. She said mom doesn’t know what to do. I said tell mom to call the cops and have them check the house. I said let me know what happens when the cops get there. She said ok.

It’s just funny, anytime something goes down I am the first person she calls. I am not her husband anymore, I am not going to run for her anymore. And realistically if I was there I would have called the cops too. What does she want me to go running into a house when there could be someone with a gun or strung out on drugs? NOPE!!

On a different note I found a house 10 minutes from the kids that I can actually afford and isn’t in bad shape. So I am excited about that!! Hopefully everything with that goes smoothly!!

I’m not going to lie I am going to miss my kids for thanksgiving but I need time away and alone. I will say it amazes me how it seems like nothing phases my ex. If it does, man she is good at hiding it. Honestly it hurts hearing all my workers talk about thanksgiving and how many people they will have over. I know I decided to go away but what was the alternative. Staying at my moms house with her aid and having the kids over for a couple of hours. That’s not a thanksgiving, and I feel bad for my kids then. I guess this is all part of the process. I will be strong and I will make it through the holidays. But they certainly won’t be the same!!!

HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE!!!

[Wolfman]

IH WHEN ARE YOU COMING TO SMITHTOWN???

[LH19]

W,

I think it’s a great idea for you to get away for awhile. I would use this trip to allow yourself to let your w go. I had a business trip in San Diego where I took a day to rehash old memories and then allowed myself to let her go. I was way more detached when I got home. I don’t want you to stop moving forward but I believe in the process and I still think your W will realize she made a big mistake. I predict you will have moved on by then.

Happy Thanksgiving Wolf.

[Ready2Change]

On a different note I found a house 10 minutes from the kids that I can actually afford and isn’t in bad shape. So I am excited about that!! Hopefully everything with that goes smoothly!!

Glad to hear that. I hope it works out.

[IHCLACS]

Hey Wolf I'm turning that up with cousin this week or next week possibly. Was talking with g
her about it last night. XW might be going to see her this weekend I found out. They have sone circumstances they have to work out. I will definitely let you know on here.

[IHCLACS]

Happy Thanksgiving Wolf. Glad you found a place for a piece of mind. Glad you also decided to go away alone too for another piece of mind. I'm sure its going to feel strange at first. Being alone again, and traveling alone, wishing you had your companions there with you. But there is freedom in it. 1.) Saving $$$ for one, 2.) Its only you and your agenda. 3.) You are free to do, go, or spend whatever you want. (No I'm tired, I don't want to do that/eat here/I don't feel well/ I have my period stuff.) 4.) Its still a spontaneous adventure that should be appreciated without having to stick to the tourist agenda, sight seeing whims of another or timetables. Free agent lifestyle baby!

But I would make it a prerogative TO ALWAYS PROTECT YOUR KIDS, AND THEIR MOM FOR THE KIDS SAKE! That is always your problem and responsibility. But yeah do not run for her otherwise. Can go kick rocks. Oh another thing since we are on the subject. Ladies reading this. Better realise that a lot of us men are willing and valiant enough to die for you, lay down our lives for you out of protection. If that isn't unconditional love I don't know what is? Romantic relationships don't work out? Can't stay married or live together? No longer attracted? Fine. We will go our own way too and accept it. But keep it in the back of your minds that most of us will pay the price of our lives for you. H...EX H whatever. I want you's to think about that the next time you want to leave someone because they are not filling your expectations.

[Wolfman]

W,
I still think your W will realize she made a big mistake. I predict you will have moved on by then.

I believe she will eventually too. She is on a journey that only she can go on. I know she is enjoying this freedom right now, eventually it will get old. But I am not going to wait for her any longer, I am going on with my life. When she does “wake up” I will not be around any longer.

I just got back last night from my vacation. It was good and it was hard. I really missed my family at times, but most of the time I just enjoyed doing what I wanted when I wanted. It was tough but I started to get use to it. Never knew how relaxing it is to go away alone. Never experienced that kind of freedom.

I have a question for everyone. Christmas is coming up and I am obviously not getting her a gift: but do I do the gifts from the kids to her. Most of the time it’s me just going out, buying her a gift and putting their name on it? Second she asked me yesterday through text what I wanted the kids to get me for Christmas. So obviously she is going to do it. I really don’t want to buy anything for her “from the kids”. If my kids want me to take them out and they buy their own thing, that is fine. But I doubt they will do that because they are young. My s is 9 and my d is 12. How do I respond to her question?

[Wolfman]

Ladies reading this. Better realise that a lot of us men are willing and valiant enough to die for you, lay down our lives for you out of protection. If that isn't unconditional love I don't know what is? Romantic relationships don't work out? Can't stay married or live together? No longer attracted? Fine. We will go our own way too and accept it. But keep it in the back of your minds that most of us will pay the price of our lives for you. H...EX H whatever. I want you's to think about that the next time you want to leave someone because they are not filling your expectations.

That is so true. I have the biggest fear of death, yet when it came to my xw and kids I would give my life for them. Like you said, they don’t realize what real and true love is. No one is perfect and no relationship is perfect. Marriage is always a work in progress. Put in the work and you will see the progress. Don’t jump ship at the first sign of water on the deck!!

[Ready2Change]

I have a question for everyone. Christmas is coming up and I am obviously not getting her a gift: but do I do the gifts from the kids to her. Most of the time it’s me just going out, buying her a gift and putting their name on it? Second she asked me yesterday through text what I wanted the kids to get me for Christmas. So obviously she is going to do it. I really don’t want to buy anything for her “from the kids”. If my kids want me to take them out and they buy their own thing, that is fine. But I doubt they will do that because they are young. My s is 9 and my d is 12. How do I respond to her question?

I believe it is your job as dad to show your kids how to go buy a gift. Give them each $20 and take them to the mall shopping. You can guide them through the process.

Dad:"What do you think mom would like?" You can give them two or three choices if you get the "I don't know"
Dad:"Do you want to combine your money or buy things individually?"




You can also drop BIG HINTS of inexpensive things they could get you.
Dad "I ran out of fishing line" or "All my socks are boring. I wish I had red socks"


H:"W, I plan on taking the kids shopping for gifts for you. I am giving them a budget of $20 each. As far as gifts for me, I am fine being surprised by what they pick for me."


I am using $20 just for an example. You can decided their real budget.

[Wolfman]

R2C thanks for the tip. I don’t know about anybody else, but Christmas is my favorite holiday and it definitely is not going to be the same. I miss doing elf on a shelf with them and seeing them look every morning. I guess I have no choice this is my new reality. It’s really too bad she never came around, the holidays will never be the same.

[IHCLACS]

Coming out to Smithtown on the 14th. Bud. Turns out XW is meeting with same cousin this weekend out there. She rolled up in a new car tonight to pick up sick S1. I've been silently flipping the f@$! out over here the last few days, Thing is I don't know if its anger I pushed down coming to the surface after months of being detached, or me focusing on her again and not enough on myself? Or me going Jecklyl and Hyde again just because I've been silent for too long? I can't even begin to write in my own sich with the back and forth head can heart $hit that Im feeling. I saved so many paragraphs and held them all back. But been reading KAS99, Scout, You, Uni, IW, DS9. And a few others. I don't get it how I could be fine for months, and then the attachment, the anger and sadness creeps back it, only for us to make time to feel it, explore it, then fight it again, focus, and keep moving. So much stuff I need to explore, write out, and I need to get back into therapy if I am ever going to get a handle on this beast inside me. But I'm getting back on the wagon. Looking forward to hanging with you Wolf and seeing how you are doing, will get back to you with a time for the 14th.

[Wolfman]

IH Looking forward to you coming out here. IH it’s funny you are feeling that way. I feel like I am sliding backwards too. I bet it’s the holidays coming up and the anxiety of it is creeping up. I know it’s bothering me, a lot!!! I no longer go to “my house” because she officially bought me out and it hurts like hell!! Some nights I say to myself (which I know is not good) I just want to go home. But it’s no longer mine. All the work I did in that house for now her to enjoy it. My anger, sadness, and depression are kicking my butt right now. I use to LOVE Christmas and our time off. Now I am not looking forward to it and am anxious about it. IH I am here for you bro. Write on my thread it’s ok. I am here for you.

Yesterday my s had a basketball game. I got there before she did. XW has my son. When they got there my s ran right over to me and gave me a hug. Man did I love that!!! I spoke with him for a little and wished him luck. I then sat in the stands with another father. Evidently XW was texting me to say hello. When I did respond (phone was on vibrate and didn’t feel it) she yelled across the stands to me and says, “I said hi to you like 4 times.” So I said hi back. Was there a need for her to make a scene to just say hello. I sat completely away from her. After the game I went over to my s and d. I walked them out of the school. I have each one a big hug and a kiss. Then they left with xw and I am not going to lie, it really hurt. I just wanted to leave with them. I miss my family so much!!! I miss kissing them in the morning before I went to work. I miss the excitement of my s waking up in the morning to find the elf on the shelf. There is such a sense of loss. My xw, kids and home none of what I want. Being forever to do something I did not want. Meaning d.

IH I truly understand how you are feeling l. Go back to IC it will help. Exercise that helps me a lot. The other morning I woke up so sad I just had to cry and let those emotions out. I felt better afterward. My IC told me that we can’t go around these feelings, we have to go through them. And it’s going to hurt for a while.

[Ready2Change]

....When they got there my s ran right over to me and gave me a hug. Man did I love that!!!..... I gave each one a big hug and a kiss.

Those are the best hugs.....I miss my kids being young.

[AnotherStander]

Wolf, there are going to be tough times like that, very sorry that you have to experience them! You handled things great though. When I went to the kids' events after S and D sometimes I sat with XW and sometimes I didn't. I didn't go out of my way to look for her, but if I walked in and she was waving her arms like a maniac then I went ahead and sat with her. At some point you'll quit caring, it won't matter to you whether you're 2" from her or 5' or across the stadium.

[IHCLACS]

Hey Wolf. Cousin canceled on me for the 14th. House renovations on her part. She canceled XW's visit too this weekend. Good thing too because I accidentally double booked the 14th. Band mates birthday party shindig is on the 14th. Part of it is the holidays. But not entirely. Its the boredom. Its the struggle of head vs. heart again and ideation. I see it for what it is though. It temporarily sent me into a rage.
Not GALing enough is playing a role in it. Im anxious, bored, and restless. Not depressed though. The anger turns to sadness and it passes.
S2 has been so sick the last 2 months. Missed so much work. I have to be a hermit because of financial constraints. Just barely made the rent. So part of its boredom and thoughts run amuck being isolated. Cleaned up my phone and external hd, had videos and pics going back 2 to 3 years. Man did that open up some wounds, that and XW buying a new car despite us both being broke with all the work days we are both missing. She can't afford it and even said so. She's probably tapping the money I never took from her because I won't sign the settlement agreement until I can afford a L to review it, and get my all my stuff out of garage which may take many months. Its not that I'm jealous. I'm much more frugal with $. Always was to get the bigger things in life. My clothes are 15 years old but I still look like a million $ . I guess what it is. Is? Watching her making all the changes and moving on when I can't that angers me. Having more of a social life, etc. Having money. (But not really.) For all the extras like nails, clothes, gifts, going out, new car, therapy, hair, stupid contraptions. Accessories. Underware, makeup, etc. Those pictures were mostly memories of how she was and how I knew her a little over a year ago. The pictures all in the last year were all evidence of all the changes, craziness, red flags. Etc. Having a hard time now moving on and detaching when I thought I did. Just wish I could shift the focus back to myself again. But its coming back slowly. My turn is coming soon though. Its really hard to stay committed to personal development when your mind has too much information in it, that and being ADD. Again I will keep you posted when I am coming out. Hope you are doing better.

[Wolfman]

IH reading that lost makes me feel like I am reading about myself. The anxiety, sadness and the unknown is killing me. I felt like I was doing so well but the holidays are making it hard. I use to love the holidays but not looking forward to it. I know this is my new reality but is $ucks!! Seeing her do all those things makes you wonder a little? Are they hurting, do they care what they did, do they even have a heart or is this something they will eventually regret. Everyday is a struggle I get where you are coming from. The pictures in the cell phone are hard. I don’t know if I could get rid of them all, it’s a part of my history and who I am too.

Ok so I still don’t get some things. My son has a hip hop competition today. I was standing in the lobby and she came over to me and said I will get right to it. I heard you are saying things about me and that we got divorced because I was having an affair. I told her that is not what I said and you need to stop listening to other people. I have no idea what you are talking about. She said, “you tell people that you miss your family.” I said that is true I do miss my family. Then she said you never cared about me. At this point I should have walked away. But she sucked me in. I guess I just wasn’t expecting this now. I told her this is ridiculous, she said if you did care I would have fixed all these things before this happened. I said you are right I should have taken care of those problems. I realize she is just gaslighting me and did not want to argue because it is ridiculous. And she said what affair did she ever have. I said I told you I never said that stop listening to people. She said what about you? You were dating, I said that is not true. She said people have told her, again I said stop listening to people.
I know I should have ended this conversation real early. My question what is she looking to accomplish with this dialogue? We are divorced and why is she listening to other people if that’s even true. Or why is she making this stuff up? Blind sided by this. I am tired of all the accusations.

[LH19]

Well Wolf you have to stop listening to crazy. Also you’re back trying to argue point and not validating her feelings. Throw in you lied to her about dating and she knows your lying seems like you have some things to work on.

[Wolfman]

Well Wolf you have to stop listening to crazy. Also you’re back trying to argue point and not validating her feelings. Throw in you lied to her about dating and she knows your lying seems like you have some things to work on.

I was not dating when she was talking about. She is talking about the beginning of our separation. I am dating now and I told her that. Her response was good. That I need to move on. She is very confusing.
I told her I made mistakes and have worked on those mistakes. And I said to her I understand how she felt with being anxious around me at times. And that I wasn’t always, “happy” around her. I said I understand how that could make her feel and am sorry for making her feel that way. I left out a part of the conversation.
My reality is just coming to grips she is not coming back. It’s a very slow process for me but I am working on it.
I’m tired of her trying to convince herself I am a villain to make herself feel better.

[Ready2Change]

My question what is she looking to accomplish with this dialogue?

She was looking for you to validate her feelings. You decided to argue.

[Wolfman]

My question what is she looking to accomplish with this dialogue?

She was looking for you to validate her feelings. You decided to argue.

Ok but why now? For what reason? I apologized and said I understood some of her things. I argued about what people told her I said. But as far as our relationship I validated and said I worked on those things after we separated and still working on those things today. I understood how that would make her feel. I can’t validate lies.

[LH19]

W,

I have been on this board for 5 years and never once have I saw someone buy their spouse out of a house be divorced for 3 weeks and then out of no where change their mind. It takes time.

[Wolfman]

W,

I have been on this board for 5 years and never once have I saw someone buy their spouse out of a house be divorced for 3 weeks and then out of no where change their mind. It takes time.

What is the point you are trying to make? I know she is not coming back. Not right now and maybe never. It’s just sad how she walked away from this and never gave it another shot, especially now knowing the things that she wanted more of and what was lacking. LH did I make it seem like I was implying that she would change her mind soon?
Just out of curiosity how many times on this board have you see the MLC spouse change their mind and actually want to get back with their LBS? Only reason why is I don’t think she is ever changing her mind. Like I said I just really miss my family and I am going to miss how the holidays were. I am not looking forward to the holidays anymore.

I have read so much about MLC and know she is having one it’s just I don’t think she will ever snap out of it. If she only truly knew how much I love her and the kids. Yeah she can go out there and replace me with someone better looking or wealthier or more calm. But I can promise you she will not find someone who will love her and those kids like I do!! No one can ever love a child more than a parent!!! Listening to her complaints again today and really thinking about it, she can not let go of the past and I validated her feelings of how she did not feel loved and did not like coming home. Maybe one day the fog will lift and she will understand what a great husband I really was to her!! This is not easy dealing with this loss!!! I would rather break ever bone in my body that feel this emotional pain!!

[Ready2Change]

I understood how that would make her feel. I can’t validate lies.

You validate how she feels (not the words she is saying). Frustrated, Angry, Sad, Confused, Happy. Everyone has a story. Their storys are not right or wrong. They are just stories.

Practice this with everyone. Listen and validate.


If my daughter tells me this :
"Everyone hates me at school!!"
Should I validate her feelings or argue about it with her?

My step daughter tells me I am the only one that listens to her. Her friends don't. Her mother doesn't. I have to FORCE myself to validate because it is not natural. I want to FIX.



I assume you want advise. I could validate how you feel instead.

[AnotherStander]

I was standing in the lobby and she came over to me and said I will get right to it. I heard you are saying things about me and that we got divorced because I was having an affair. I told her that is not what I said and you need to stop listening to other people.

Validating response: "Honestly I don't recall saying anything like that, but I'm sure that is very frustrating hearing people tell you those things, I am sorry you're having to deal with that."

She said, “you tell people that you miss your family.” I said that is true I do miss my family. Then she said you never cared about me.

"It sounds like you felt like I didn't care about you, I regret doing things that made you feel that way."

At this point I should have walked away. But she sucked me in. I guess I just wasn’t expecting this now. I told her this is ridiculous, she said if you did care I would have fixed all these things before this happened. I said you are right I should have taken care of those problems. I realize she is just gaslighting me and did not want to argue because it is ridiculous. And she said what affair did she ever have. I said I told you I never said that stop listening to people. She said what about you? You were dating, I said that is not true. She said people have told her, again I said stop listening to people. I know I should have ended this conversation real early.

Yeah you really want to avoid these type of exchanges, it just looks like "more of the same" to her. She doesn't see it as her drawing you into a fight, she sees it as her raising legitimate questions and you being argumentative.

My question what is she looking to accomplish with this dialogue? We are divorced and why is she listening to other people if that’s even true. Or why is she making this stuff up? Blind sided by this. I am tired of all the accusations.

Because someone said something to her and she felt attacked so she felt obliged to say something. You can feed her paranoia like you did, or you can listen and validate which will defuse the situation.

[Wolfman]

Another Stander I wish you were there with me. Those are good phrases to use. It’s funny because I always think about validating but it never comes out and I sometimes feel t know exactly how to say those things. When you say it it looks so good. I need an earpiece with you talking into it for me. Lol. The one thing that has changed at least for me, I. Those exchanges I don’t yell and I keep my cool. In e past I would have blown up and never apologized for anything in the past. I definitely need to do a better job.

Can some explain this for me though. Validating all the time doesn’t feel natural and is not me. I feel like I am changing to accommodate her. When I am I ever really able to express myself? Instead of always trying to make her feel understood. Is that how I am suppose to interact with her the rest of my life. Just understand her feeling and never give my side of a story or explain how I feel?

[Jac12]

Wolf I think you are misunderstanding this...

Everyone wants their feelings validated. To feel like people understand them and how they view the world and their surroundings "at that moment". It's not just your W. People around you - that's why others suggest working on this with everyone you come in contact with. How can you argue with someone else's feelings??? Why don't you want her to feel understood? YES, you should be interacting with her in that way.

This doesn't mean you can't say how you feel and that your feelings aren't important. It's ok to stand up and say how you feel with strength. It doesn't mean you argue with them about how you feel they should feel different, or how what you did shouldn't make them feel like that.

Are you following? I'm sure someone else can explain better but I do think you're missing the point.

You may feel like you are changing but maybe that's a good thing because it can help you build relationships in the future!

[LovingIt]

Another Stander I wish you were there with me. Those are good phrases to use. It’s funny because I always think about validating but it never comes out and I sometimes feel t know exactly how to say those things. When you say it it looks so good. I need an earpiece with you talking into it for me. Lol. The one thing that has changed at least for me, I. Those exchanges I don’t yell and I keep my cool. In e past I would have blown up and never apologized for anything in the past. I definitely need to do a better job.

Can some explain this for me though. Validating all the time doesn’t feel natural and is not me. I feel like I am changing to accommodate her. When I am I ever really able to express myself? Instead of always trying to make her feel understood. Is that how I am suppose to interact with her the rest of my life. Just understand her feeling and never give my side of a story or explain how I feel?

Don't beat yourself up too much for not doing everything perfect in real time. The one thing that I learned from reading all the vets' old threads is that they made the similar mistakes you did in their own sitch. They have the benefit of objectivity and time to read/edit your posts. Just keep learning and improving everyday with each interaction.

[Wolfman]

Thank you Jac and lovingit for your words of wisdom. Every little bit helps. Since sometimes I get stuck or confused on what to say looking for advice.
My xw text me last night that my d was not feeling well. That she might have to stay home from school. Xw said she couldn’t that I would have to stay home with her. If d did stay home sick she wouldn’t leave her at the house she was going to wake her up early and bring her to my moms house where I am staying. I think it’s horrible if my d did stay home that she would wake her up early and take her out in the freezing cold and bring her to my moms instead of me going there. The question I have is how do I respond to her basically insisting on me staying? She is a teacher too and she has the same time off as I do. If I simply tell her I can’t take off either it would start an argument. Obviously I have the right to not stay home, if she is choosing not too. She thinks I am at her becking call all the time. We only have a certain number of sick days and last year anytime the kids were sick I stayed home. She always has an excuse why she can’t. What is the best way to say I don’t want to stay home without it coming off argumentative or as she would say spiteful. She has such a double standard she doesn’t have to stay home but I have to. She doesn’t want to stay home because today is Friday and this is her night to party and go to happy hour and she doesn’t want to miss that. I am so done with this teenage behavior. It’s all about her and doesn’t care about anyone else!!!

[TBSakaJ9]

Hi XW, man, that really stinks that D is sick. I am sorry, I can't stay home tomorrow there is something important going on in class. Please keep me posted on how she is doing. Have a great evening.

[sandi2]

If she only truly knew how much I love her and the kids. Yeah she can go out there and replace me with someone better looking or wealthier or more calm. But I can promise you she will not find someone who will love her and those kids like I do!!

I don't believe her issues developed b/c you failed to love her & the kids. If she is having a MLC, then I don't think it has much, if anything, to do with how much you loved her.

A lot of LBH's try to make up for whatever they didn't provide in the MR.......like, doing acts to show his W how much he loves her. However, the timing is off, b/c she is not receptive to his love at this time. They are living in different time worlds, emotionally.

If you are fully convinced she is in MLC, then why not move to the MLC forum? It's fine if you want to stay here. I'm just thinking maybe you could identify with those supporters and receive suggestions centered around the subject of spouses in MLC. You need to listen to those who have learned how to cope with, or without, a MLCW.

I hear your grief, Wolf, and I agree that the situation is very sad. (((hugs)))

[IHCLACS]

You think taking off for a sick child is argumentative in your sich. XW is a teacher she has taken off at least 25 days this calendar year, and I myself about 20. Surgeries, being sick, Dr's appointments etc.. ALL FOR JUST S2. Take turns. State where and when you can and cannot take off. Always get and anticipate at least 12 hrs notice if child is feeling ill, make the decisions jointly for either one of you to stay home the night prior.

[Ready2Change]

Hi Wolf,

What type of parenting arrangement did you agree to in your divorce decree?

If you have less than 50/50 and desire 50/50, you take every opportunity to "Watch" your kids during her parenting time. You keep records of this.


If you are fine with the current parenting arrangement's, decide if you want to spend the day with your child.


It appears to me that you are still focused on your XW behavior. Focus on your own behavior. Do the right thing for the right reasons for your children.

[Wolfman]

Merry Christmas everyone!!!
I knew this was going to be hard emotionally celebrating Christmas as a broken family. My xw always makes it seem like everything is ok. But she got a little taste of real divorce life. What do I mean by taste, me not running for her and being there for her like I am still her husband. In our agreement for Christmas she gets the kids in the morning and afternoon and then she brings them to me in the early evening and at night I bring them back to her. Usually every Christmas her parents would go to the house and celebrate there. This time they made her bring the kids to their house 30 minutes away. The day before Christmas Eve xw told me she was going to her parents house and that she would bring the kids to me around 6. So I said great. I asked her how come she was going out there and she said her parents didn’t want to go to her house. I said oh ok. Then yesterday We were texting back and forth about how to get the Santa gifts to her house (the ones I wrapped). In those text messages she said she might go out can she let me know when to bring the kids to her, I said sure. She winds up bringing the kids to my moms house and then she starts to pull away. I ran to the car I said what about the gifts I was going to give you now (Santa gifts). She said can’t you just bring them later I’m not happy right now. I said ok, everything ok? She said you know how hard it’s going to be to be alone on Christmas Eve? I said It must be hard I am sorry. Then she took off. The. I get this text:

Sorry but I’m not happy. You get to now enjoy our children while I’m home alone. Once again me making the sacrific to leave my family to bring the kids to you! You could’ve picked them up knowing I would be alone.
I responded with:
Why don’t you go back to your moms? I know this is hard. It’s hard for everyone. I missed my kids all day. I would of asked you to stay here but I know how you feel about my family.
Then more:
Go back to my moms? Lol. So typical of you! Most men would’ve said I will pick them up so you don’t have to leave but all. I would rather be alone than be there to be honest. My kids is the only thing there that interests me.

I responded: I am sorry that you are alone. I know this must be a real difficult time for you it is for all of us.
That was it with communication. It’s not my fault she did t want to go back to her parents. It’s not my fault they didn’t want to go to her house. In our agreement she is suppose to bring them to me. This is divorced life, I am not her husband anymore, or else I would be running around for her like I always did. I hurt me to know that she was alone but there is nothing I can do. This is what she wanted and this come with divorce. She still thinks I am suppose to run for her because I always use to and try real hard to make things easy for her. I don’t know what she wants or what she thinks. This is a different life now. I am not the doting husband anymore.
What does everyone think? Did I handle this well?

[Jac12]

Not terribly but I would have talked less (or so I hope). These are the consequences of her choices, not yours. Let her figure it out.

[Ready2Change]

What does everyone think? Did I handle this well?

There is always room for improvement. I crossed out what I feel was not needed:

I get this text:

Sorry but I’m not happy. You get to now enjoy our children while I’m home alone. Once again me making the sacrifice to leave my family to bring the kids to you! You could’ve picked them up knowing I would be alone.
I responded with:
Why don’t you go back to your moms? I know this is hard. It’s hard for everyone. I missed my kids all day. I would of asked you to stay here but I know how you feel about my family.

There are so many ways to respond to this.

First, what would Steve85 say. Not a direct question. No response needed.
Second, what would AS say. Validate how she feels. "I can understand why you are not happy"

As you go forward, you should really think about how steve85 would respond. How would AS respond.

Other choices:

"I am sorry you feel that way"




The last thing she wants from you is advice. It is important that you stop. "Why don't you go back to your moms" is unsolicited advise. can you see this?

Make it all about her feelings and nothing about you. "I miss my kids everyday" is about you, not her.

This is the OMG, why in the world would he say this??? " I would of asked you to stay here but I know how you feel about my family"


You get huge brownie points for not arguing with her. The first thing that comes to my mind is to argue my point. I have to fight ever erge to say things like this:

"You have no idea about sacrifice."
or
"At least you don't have to sacrifice as much as me"
or
"You wanted this. Not us"




Every time you interact, it is a learning opportunity. Have the goal of always doing better the next time.

This is how I would have responded(Not that I am recommending this):
"I appreciate the sacrifices you make for our children's happiness. I have learned to enjoy my time alone. I hope you find your happiness. "

[IHCLACS]

Anyone ever see the movie The Ref? Kevin Spacey: You know what mom? You know what I’m gonna get you next Christmas? A big wooden cross, so every time you feel unappreciated for all your sacrifices, you can climb up and nail yourself to it."

[ovrrnbw]

Anyone ever see the movie The Ref? Kevin Spacey: You know what mom? You know what I’m gonna get you next Christmas? A big wooden cross, so every time you feel unappreciated for all your sacrifices, you can climb up and nail yourself to it."

The sooner you purge all that pain the sooner you will begin to move on. Let go of that. This is not DB, not healthy at all.

Wolf, I agree with R2C. Be confident, Stay in your good place, don't get dragged into anything. You are in control of you always.

[Wolfman]

R2C you are right i need to stop offering advice. That seemed to only make her more mad. Something else I would like to talk about. You guys tell what I did if it’s wrong and I xw is going off the deep end?

On Christmas Eve I brought the kids back to her house around 11:30pm. My son still believes in Santa and I love seeing the excitement of Christmas for him. So we get back to the house and she was sitting in the couch I. The living room by her self in a real pissy mood. The kids told her a little about what they got with me. Then xw says ok guys go to bed or else Santa won’t come. My d who knows there is no Santa says to her mom, mom there are no stockings up. My xw is so self absorbed she didn’t even put the kids stockings up. So my xw says in a nasty tone to my d go find them and hang them up. My d says where though. Xw yells at her I don’t know look in the bins. There never even put the holiday bins in the basement they were still sitting in the den. Side note when I lived there I can’t tell you how much I deforested the inside and outside of the house. This year 1st year I am not living there all she put up was the tree. It was very sad to see. My d finds the stockings and hangs them up. They were about to go up to bed when I said to the kids what about cookies for Santa. So the kids were like oh yeah. So there was a box of cookies out on the counter in the kitchen we grabbed 2 cookies and put them on a plate and left them in the den. She did t have any milk so it was just the cookies. So then my kids went to bed. But I noticed when I looked upstairs my sons light was on. This whole time xw has not moved from the couch and has a pi$$ed look on her face. So I said to my xw I am going to go upstairs to give the kids a kiss goodnight and turn s light off. Just as I am about to walk up the stairs she said what do you think you are doing? I said I am going to give the kids a kiss and turn s light off. She then proceeded to say you aren’t going to ask me? I said to give my kids a kiss? She then replied, This isn’t your house anymore you can’t just do what you want. You think you can just walk upstairs without asking? The. You go and get cookies without asking. You think you can do whatever you want. This is t your home anymore. I said sorry I was just getting cookies to put out for Santa. I then asked would it be ok if I can go and give my kids a kiss then? With a pi$$ed off attitude she said do whatever you want. You have always done whatever you wanted and nothing has changed. I said if you don’t want me to I won’t. She said no go and give them a kiss. After I kissed them I brought in the Santa gifts I wrapped and some of the stocking stuffers, I did what I had to do and promptly left.
Can someone please enlighten me to what is going on here? She did nothing as far as getting things ready for Santa. I know it’s her house but seriously I have to ask for permission to give my kids a kiss. What happened to my xw? This is certainly not the woman I married. She didn’t do her job, so maybe I should have scolded her about not leaving the stockings out for the kids. Or leaving cookies and milk out for Santa. She has become so self absorbed it’s disgusting. She only cares about herself and will only do things that benefit her.

[LH19]

W,

I hate to be the to tell you this but she’s right it isn’t your house and you should have asked. My ex was over on Christmas and my son wanted to show her something in the basement. She asked me if it was ok. That’s respect.

Look she most likely despises you right now hence the pissed off look because you are the reasons for her problems.

That will likely change if you give her time and space to figure her $hit out.

Right now you keep shooting yourself in the foot because you’re still trying to solve her problems and over stepping your boundaries.

[ovrrnbw]

She's right. Drop kids off and go. Drop expectations.

You are up her butt about everything: the stockings, the cookies, the milk, the bins. Who cares? Do that at your place, she's not your kid.

[Wolfman]

She's right. Drop kids off and go. Drop expectations.

You are up her butt about everything: the stockings, the cookies, the milk, the bins. Who cares? Do that at your place, she's not your kid.

I’m confused here. I didn’t say what I g to her about those things. I just noticed it. My d was the one to say something about the stockings. And I said to my kids about the cookies for Santa. I also had “Santa gifts” and had to wait for son to go to bed.
Ok honestly it’s hard for me to let go that that was my home too. I miss being in my home. If you all want me to just be honest. This is the hardest thing I ever had to do. Give up my w, kids and home. So yes at times I struggle. I appreciate what you all are telling me. I will ask for permission. I didn’t even realize to just give my kids a kiss to ask. I know now that going upstairs it’s no longer my home. It just hurts real bad!!!

I am having a hard time right now with the holidays. I have been feeling depressed because of how I miss the old holidays.

LH you said I am the reason for her problems. What are you referring too? She has gotten everything she wanted. From the d, home, child support, parenting schedule. What else is there?

[LH19]

W,

I understand you are struggling on the holidays and I am sorry you’re going through this I really am. I also struggled on Christmas and a night when I was alone I had a good cry.

As posters we feel a sense to tell you what you’re doing wrong in are opinion so you don’t repeat these mistakes.

When I say you’re the reason for her problems I say that rolling my eyes. That’s what she believes but that most likely isn’t the case. It’s gonna take awhile (years) to figure that out.

My concern for you has always been that you honestly believe your value in the marriage was based on what you could do for her and not as an equal partner. It’s great to do things for another in a relationship but it must be reciprocated.

Be careful not to read into the pissed off look as her not being happy. Again, that look was most likely for you. She’s probably happy and excited to have her new found freedom but that will most likely change at some point too.

How’s things going with your GF?

[Wolfman]

LH I want to thank you for always standing by. I know I need help. Most days I am good but there are some that hit me and when they do they hit me hard. She is definitely enjoying her freedom. I appreciate you always trying to help me out. I just can’t understand I guess still. Part of being stubborn I guess. I try very hard to not argue anymore and validate I try to be upbeat and fun as much as I can.

GF has been good mostly. The only bump we keep hitting is my kids. I haven’t introduced them to her yet. We have been dating for 8 months the last 4 seriously. So she is getting a little ancy when she will meet them. I have to be absolutely sure that she will be around for the long haul. I think she will be. Honestly I feel bad for the kids too. I know this will be hard for them. But I did not want this divorce. I am merely trying to move on in my life. I feel introducing her to the kids is going to be real hard for my kids and I am afraid it will put a strain on my relationship with them. Like I am the bad guy because I am moving on. Yet their mother is the one who did this, I know they don’t see that.

Please I need people to talk to. This holiday season is going to be hard.

[LH19]

Well today’s your lucky day because I’m stuck at the mechanic.

Seems like you have got yourself in a bind being in a relationship when you’re still pining for your W. You’re doing the right thing by not introducing until you’re ready.

This relationship has rebound written all over it.

[ovrrnbw]

Wolf,

Just let her go man. Leave her to herself. Don't call, don't text, don't email. Stick to the kids' schedule and drop em at the door. This will help your attachment to her and the house. You need time away from her and that house to heal and start new growth. I know you're thinking you have to communicate to be good "co-parents". Well I hate that word and I would never let some arbitrary cultural pressure make me do a thing. Some people may think I'm a knucklehead for that, oh well.

I would hold tight on introducing her to the kids. You still have feelings for your XW. Can you update your signature so we can ages and kids, etc? Your GF getting antsy about your kids is just another arbitrary cultural pressure. Is she planning on some relationship with your kids too? Ya I didn't think so. You can do the kids intro if and when you are ready.

What are you doing to learn, grow, heal, GAL?

[Wolfman]

Well today’s your lucky day because I’m stuck at the mechanic.

Seems like you have got yourself in a bind being in a relationship when you’re still pining for your W. You’re doing the right thing by not introducing until you’re ready.

This relationship has rebound written all over it.

You know the more I think about it, I don’t know if it’s my wife I miss or the family dynamic. I know this is going to sound horrible, but with the GF and eventually her meeting the kids I will feel whole. The GF is amazing. She is a bit of an anomoly. She is not into social media and is not addicted to her phone. She loves to cook and is always cleaning and straightening up. Very affectionate loves sports. So at first it might have been a rebound but I am really liking her more and more. I am starting to really feel something for her.

Let me tell you all something about me. I hate change and I get attached to things. I just finally got rid of my 350z it was a 2003. The transmission was going, windows didn’t work, heat didn’t always work. And it was still hard to let it go. But once I got my new car I moved on. Please I am not comparing a relationship with a car. Just giving an example of how I get attached. When my xw and I moved from our first house I cried for 2 days. I missed that home. Again it’s a weird thing I just get attached. Again just giving examples of how I get attached. So moving forward with GF is a real good thing for me. I know I shouldn’t use my GF to get over xw but that has been my life. Get over attachments by replacing with something new and then I am fine.

Wolf,

What are you doing to learn, grow, heal, GAL?

I read a lot of self help books. I read DR, 5 Love languages, No more Mr. Niceguy, and a few others. I go to the gym a lot more. Call a lot of my friends to do things. Try to fund the positive in life. That I am healthy, have beautiful healthy kids. I have a a career and make good money. I guess I just move a lot slower than some of the others on here.

[LH19]

W,

Well something doesn’t sound right your GF sounds amazing and your W sounds like a horrible person. I guess I’m not sure why you just don’t leave your W alone to deal with her $hit. Spend and enjoy the time with your kids when you have them and then spend time with GF and friends when you don’t.

[Wolfman]

W,

Well something doesn’t sound right your GF sounds amazing and your W sounds like a horrible person. I guess I’m not sure why you just don’t leave your W alone to deal with her $hit. Spend and enjoy the time with your kids when you have them and then spend time with GF and friends when you don’t.

You are so right. I ask myself that too. Why am I still hurt when I have this amazing girlfriend. She just asked me to go to Norway with her to go skiing from New Year’s Eve to the 4th. How do I ask my xw about going since some of theirs days my children are suppose to be with me. Help!!!

[LH19]

First you ask your ex if you can borrow your balls from her purse for a minute and the you ask her lol.

You’re still afraid of her?????

[Wolfman]

First you ask your ex if you can borrow your balls from her purse for a minute and the you ask her lol.

You’re still afraid of her?????

Lol. You are so funny. I was asking if there is a certain way since sometimes I can be abrupt.

[LH19]

Ex,

I have an opportunity to go to Norway skiing this weekend. Can you watch the kids?

[LITB]

You know the more I think about it, I don’t know if it’s my wife I miss or the family dynamic. I know this is going to sound horrible, but with the GF and eventually her meeting the kids I will feel whole. The GF is amazing. She is a bit of an anomoly. She is not into social media and is not addicted to her phone. She loves to cook and is always cleaning and straightening up. Very affectionate loves sports. So at first it might have been a rebound but I am really liking her more and more. I am starting to really feel something for her.

Wolfman... I haven't read up on your whole sitch, but I'll chime in on the last few posts in your thread. How much do you like your GF? Not sure she will stick around if you keep stringing her along. Like LH said, you really need to get your balls back from your XW. You allow her to have too much power in your life and in your head.

I am glad you have not introduced your children to her. I didn't either. Anyway, it is important that you figure out if you are gonna continue pining for your XW or build on your relationship with your GF. The longer you kick this down the road doing both, the harder it is gonna be when it comes to a head.

[Wolfman]

You know the more I think about it, I don’t know if it’s my wife I miss or the family dynamic. I know this is going to sound horrible, but with the GF and eventually her meeting the kids I will feel whole. The GF is amazing. She is a bit of an anomoly. She is not into social media and is not addicted to her phone. She loves to cook and is always cleaning and straightening up. Very affectionate loves sports. So at first it might have been a rebound but I am really liking her more and more. I am starting to really feel something for her.

Wolfman... I haven't read up on your whole sitch, but I'll chime in on the last few posts in your thread. How much do you like your GF? Not sure she will stick around if you keep stringing her along. Like LH said, you really need to get your balls back from your XW. You allow her to have too much power in your life and in your head.

I am glad you have not introduced your children to her. I didn't either. Anyway, it is important that you figure out if you are gonna continue pining for your XW or build on your relationship with your GF. The longer you kick this down the road doing both, the harder it is gonna be when it comes to a head.

I am going to continue to build on my relationship with my GF. I am not going to pine over my xw. I really need to just let it go. The last couple of days the GF and I have had some long and very deep conversations about our relationship and what we want and where it is going. I am truly happy with her and don’t want to ruin it. And what’s with the ball$ thing? Asking my ex about going away doesn’t mean I have any ball$? We have a parenting agreement so if I have the kids some of those days I have to ask. There is so many people who help me on here. Lit I hope you continue to stick with me too. If she says no, which I think she will because this is last minute and I am sure she made plans I am going to be so mad!!

[LH19]

W,

Ok so your asking your W last minute and you understand she probably has plans but you’re still going to be mad???? Were you this unreasonable in the marriage? If so maybe you should start being more understanding why your W wanted a D?

The balls joke is because you’re still clearing afraid of her and effected by her moods. Throw in the fact that you seem like you found an amazing woman who wants to build something special with you but you would rather go back to being your Ws butler/chauffeur.

Do you see why we are confused? Something is not adding up?

[Wolfman]

W,

Ok so your asking your W last minute and you understand she probably has plans but you’re still going to be mad???? Were you this unreasonable in the marriage? If so maybe you should start being more understanding why your W wanted a D?

The balls joke is because you’re still clearing afraid of her and effected by her moods. Throw in the fact that you seem like you found an amazing woman who wants to build something special with you but you would rather go back to being your Ws butler/chauffeur.

Do you see why we are confused? Something is not adding up?

I was not that unreasonable. I am more of a spontaneous person. I don’t always have plans so far in advance. So anytime I want to do something not according to schedule I will have to plan it out a month in advance. So it’s frustrating. My w wanted a divorce because according to her she felt I did not love her and did not show her enough love. I have talked about this before. She said because I didn’t run to her everytime she came home to give her a kiss. Or everytime I would run out to go to the store or do something quick I didn’t kiss her. In the 19 years together I walked about and went for a drive because she wouldn’t stop arguing with me. And for her that was devastating. I went for a drive for 2 hours to cool off before i came back home. Even when we did a short stint in marriage counseling the counselor said that was good that I went for a drive to cool off before I said something really mean.
As far as afraid. It’s never easy with her. I am not the type who likes confrontation or arguing. And unless it benefits her then it’s a big problem in her eyes. She is a pessimist so when I can I avoid talk with her. I’m just tired of arguing with someone who only sees their point of view and that I am always wrong. So yes I try to avoid speaking with her.

As far as my GF I have decided to really make this relationship work. LH you are so right, it doesn’t make sense. For me like I said I hate change and letting go. But if I don’t I will lose this amazing woman. I don’t want to lose her. I do not want to go back to being a butler. You are right I was, always catering to my xw needs. I did it for so long I guess I just thought that’s how marriages were. The husband took care of the w’s every need. Boy was I so wrong. It needs to be 50/50. I thought the more I did for her the happier she would be, it backfired, the more she would keep asking for. I am Mr, Niceguy alwasy looking good people please and that behavior needs to stop.!!! Thank you LH for sticking with me and mentoring me. Please keep hitting me with 2x4’s!!! I truly value what you say as well as many others.

[LH19]

No problem W you’re are horrible student but I stick with you anyway lol.

I understand the change thing and the family dynamic I really do and I struggle with that at times too.

You guys are divorced now there should be no arguing. There should be very minimal communication. Unfortunately if you want to make plans when you have the kids and she says no you either cancel your plans or make other arrangements.

You really don’t have to put up with her pessimistic bs anymore. It’s pretty simple, listen, validate, set and enforce boundaries. It’s really that simple so try not to complicate it.

[Rose888]

Wolfman,

You need to stop putting yourself in situations where you are dependent on your ex-wife. Your Santa presents don’t need to be set out at her house. You don’t get to determine if the kids leave milk and cookies for Santa. Santa can come to both houses, and you can leave milk and cookies at your place, if that’s important to you.

If she can’t watch the kids, hire a sitter.

[Ginger1]

I’ve got to say..... I haven’t read your whole witch, but.....

I can’t believe your gf is wanting to be serious with you so enmeshed with your ex. She’s a huge part of your thoughts and actions still. This doesn’t bother her? Is she turning a blind eye to it? Do you hide it really well?

I couldn’t imagine being in her position. She must really really want this work.

[IHCLACS]

Seems like you have got yourself in a bind being in a relationship when you’re still pining for your W. You’re doing the right thing by not introducing until you’re ready.

This relationship has rebound written all over it.

You know the more I think about it, I don’t know if it’s my wife I miss or the family dynamic. I know this is going to sound horrible, but with the GF and eventually her meeting the kids I will feel whole. The GF is amazing. She is a bit of an anomoly. She is not into social media and is not addicted to her phone. She loves to cook and is always cleaning and straightening up. Very affectionate loves sports. So at first it might have been a rebound but I am really liking her more and more. I am starting to really feel something for her.

Let me tell you all something about me. I hate change and I get attached to things. I just finally got rid of my 350z it was a 2003. The transmission was going, windows didn’t work, heat didn’t always work. And it was still hard to let it go. But once I got my new car I moved on. Please I am not comparing a relationship with a car. Just giving an example of how I get attached. When my xw and I moved from our first house I cried for 2 days. I missed that home. Again it’s a weird thing I just get attached. Again just giving examples of how I get attached. So moving forward with GF is a real good thing for me. I know I shouldn’t use my GF to get over xw but that has been my life. Get over attachments by replacing with something new and then I am fine.

Wolf,

What are you doing to learn, grow, heal, GAL?

I read a lot of self help books. I read DR, 5 Love languages, No more Mr. Niceguy, and a few others. I go to the gym a lot more. Call a lot of my friends to do things. Try to fund the positive in life. That I am healthy, have beautiful healthy kids. I have a a career and make good money. I guess I just move a lot slower than some of the others on here.
[/quote]

This statement deeply concerns me Wolf. "You know the more I think about it, I don’t know if it’s my wife I miss or the family dynamic. I know this is going to sound horrible, but with the GF and eventually her meeting the kids I will feel whole. The GF is amazing." It concerns me Wolf because even though at the moment. The new GF is a refreshing change, and seems to check all the boxes for right now, and it seems you have a real good shot at a fruitful and fulfilling relationship. YOU DO NOT REQUIRE ANOTHER PERSON IN YOUR LIFE TO MAKE YOURSELF BE WHOLE OR COMPLETE!
Now everyone has their own pace, preferences, timing, etc. So on the other hand. I don't blame you for moving on. Just please continue to make time to do the work on yourself aside from your new GF. Don't make commitments you can't keep, and don't rush things. Keep the long game in mind. I'm talking 5 to 10 years out on whether this new person is good for you. We all tend to see the good in everyone we are saying for the first year because everyone is on their best behavior. You have to watching things very carefully. Its easy to get d!cknapped for one, for two you have to watch for chameleons that are too good to be true, three there is the old bait and switch, and four, you have to really I mean really be sure their values and principles line up with yours. (Those things can change too.)

Now I'm not one to tell someone how to live/act/think/feel as I have my own internal battles between logic and love, God and Man. Heaven and the World. A Christ like life, and seduction. My self worth in myself and a relationship, etc. Everyday I fight with myself for the last year internally in my mind between seeing thing how they really are, and putting hope and expectations aside by the results of another persons actions, and being hopeful because I want to believe it in order to see it in my life. Its very doubleminded of me. I can also say that I've been on two dates myself with a woman who is a really good person, was giving me the signals and everything, but I just couldn't do it. I'm not ready. I'm the last person to be gun shy when going in for the kill for a hookup. I know I'm not ready. All I could still think about was XW after the meetup. Despite all the actions taken against the marriage by her, and all the things I failed to either understand, fulfil, validate properly, do, or act on. Is it a form of denial that I live in at times? Perhaps? I get what you are saying about change. I don't do well with change either. Once i force myself to settle into it however. Little by little piece by piece. I get comfortable with the newness of things pretty quickly. My logic tells me with XW that I haven't seen any positive signs torwards the M in over a year. So I shut myself out from XW, have gone completely dark as far as to the point of not answering calls, emails, or invitations to dinner with her and her family which I get on a regular basis from her.. Am in no way revealing or vulnerable any longer, and neither is she. I think despite all the anger and resentment I have finally dissipated for now. My head says move forward with life. Deep in my heart. I still feel "it ain't over till it's over." I have retreated to a very solitude like life for now, preferring to be alone so I can really get comfortable with myself and my introspection. I've had some nice grateful moments over the holidays with a friend, and disappointments with my own family. But it is teaching me to lose all expectation and attachment to outcomes better or worse. This may be a little stubborn of me. But... XW is going to have to come to me if R is ever a consideration. Can I carry on with my life? In baby steps yes. But I know I have A LOT of inner work to do and never knowing how to measure it tangibly. I'm sure she has a lot of inner work as well, and it shows through her actions torwards change. All I know is being alone is two fold, and needed at times. It forces me to face who I was, who I am, and who I want to be. On one hand I am realizing a lot, and on the other I am missing new experiences and possibly stunting my growth a little. But in good time.

Wolf. Respect you're XW boundaries. When I go to my old home to pickup S2. I always knock. Even though I was told not to. Other than S2 room to get his stuff when he is not ready when I pick him up. If I have to go anywhere on the house for anything I always ask. When xw says you can just do whatever you like, you don't have to ask for permission. Its not a big deal, I always make it a point to say well it's not my house anymore, Im no longer paying the mortgage, so I'm just asking out of respect

[IronWill]

Hey Wolf -

I highly recommend you listen to the others.

Needing someone in your life to fill a "gap" is just going to lead you to more pain. It is very clear from your posts that you are still struggling with the fallout from your marriage. That has an enormously high percentage of affecting the new R with GF, and it is very likely that some of the problems from your marriage will translate into problems in your new R.

Are you in IC? If you aren't, I would recommend it. Highly.

If you decide to keep the new R going, I would advise you to go slow. Like glacier slow. You have to differentiate this R from the issues you are having from not fully processing the end of your MR.

[neffer]

Hey man, there’s not a jury servicing justice in our own sitches. It is what it is. That’s why we push for the LBSs to work on themselves. Live your reality. Enjoy the plans you are getting with your GF and free yourself from any negative energy.
Apply what you’ve learnt.

Respect

You can do it Wolf. Be consistent.

[Wolfman]

Thank you everyone for keeping with me. I read everyone’s comments.

Wolfman,

You need to stop putting yourself in situations where you are dependent on your ex-wife. Your Santa presents don’t need to be set out at her house. You don’t get to determine if the kids leave milk and cookies for Santa. Santa can come to both houses, and you can leave milk and cookies at your place, if that’s important to you.

I don’t have a house yet. I live with my mom. I am closing on my home at the end of January. It is originally in our agreement that I would go over there Christmas Day to see the kids open gifts. That will have to change.

I’ve got to say..... I haven’t read your whole witch, but.....

I can’t believe your gf is wanting to be serious with you so enmeshed with your ex. She’s a huge part of your thoughts and actions still. This doesn’t bother her? Is she turning a blind eye to it? Do you hide it really well?

I do hide it pretty well. What I hide is my sadness at times. My sadness is more the loss of family and missing my kids. I have a great GF and enjoy being with her. When I am with her we are very happy. I know it’s still early but I have learned a lot from my former marriage. Not to make the same mistakes.

IH I will respect her boundaries with the home. I took everyone’s advice and I no longer go into the home. To pick the kids up or drop them off. Yesterday I don’t know what happened to me. I dropped the kids off at night at the ex’s house and after I said good bye and got in the car I broke down and just started crying. I miss kissing my kids goodnight, I miss kissing them before I would leave for work. I miss them so much!!! I was always so involved with my kids and this really hurts.

My GF was asking me questions the last few days about my m. She said my past is important to who I am. So I explained everything to her. From me originally wanting to separate and then my ex going over that wanting a d. How I tried for a while to make things work but she wanted no part of it. To how I walked out on her 5 times and went for a drive when we got into those big arguments. It felt great to be completely honest with her. There was one thing GF said to me that I was shocked about. She said your ex is going through something and seems very immature and is going to realize after she dates a little what a mistake she is making. She said she is totally going to regret this. It’s so funny to hear that, all of our mutual friends have said the same thing to me and to hear her say this was shocking. Then it makes me wonder, how my ex doesn’t see that? I know I have said it before. I have read on numerous threads give them space and time and they will come back. I really don’t believe that will ever happen. At that point I don’t know if I would go back. I even read Sandi saying sometimes the WW seeing the LBS moving on and they could be lost forever, sometimes the WW snaps out of it. Haven’t seen that either. My ex knows I have a GF. And nothing. I am not dating to get her back I am dating because I found someone who is great and really appreciates me for me. Shows me a lot of love. I guess I am surprised and not at how prideful my ex is and will not show that any of this bothers her. Or even the slightest attempt to make things right with us. Again that would be a big decision for me at this point.

[Wolfman]

Anyone know the answer to this. I pay child support. My ex is asking for money for the kids hip hop dance costumes. Does jeans, sneakers, shirts for dance costume fall under the clothing part of child support? She is constantly hitting me up for money. I can’t take this anymore. She keeps both her paychecks and then gets part of mine. How much more? NYS stinks how it favors the women.

[LH19]

You definitely owe half for hip hop and costumes. My ex and I split the back to school shopping but everything else we do separate.

[SteveLW]

Anyone know the answer to this. I pay child support. My ex is asking for money for the kids hip hop dance costumes. Does jeans, sneakers, shirts for dance costume fall under the clothing part of child support? She is constantly hitting me up for money. I can’t take this anymore. She keeps both her paychecks and then gets part of mine. How much more? NYS stinks how it favors the women.

Do not make expenses about your kids about her. This will always skew your thinking!!

The KIDS need jeans, sneakers and shirts for dance costumes.......not your ex.

Put your kids first.

[Wolfman]

I need help!!! From my understanding even costumes for hip hop are part of clothing item. But I will find out from a lawyer. But here she goes again:
W: Well technically it’s a dance costume that we chose for them to do extra so it’s part of activities. And if you remember I brought your child support down by a lot. So are we going to go there?

Me: I know you did. But you get to keep both your paychecks plus get part of mine. So what does my support go to?

W: Every day things... their clothes, their home, their food but this is a costume expense. I have not asked you for a penny for their clothes or anything like that... this is a costume expense for both kids. Not for nothing... nowhere in our paperwork does it day I had to give you half of the insurance check and I gave it to you without you even asking...

Me: I would have thought that was a given since I was paying your health insurance. Since when did you become spiteful and vindictive? Who are you????

W: Vindictive? Look in the mirror. You are constantly showing why we are where we are. Constant reminder of why I made the decision that I did. Slowly everyone is seeing the real you and I don’t have to say a word. The lies right to my parents faces were a huge eye opener for them as well... sad because they had the utmost love and respect for you. I am not a vindictive person and never will be.... nothing has changed always putting the blame on others for your behavior. It’s all good though.... It really is sad. I know you were hurt by all of this but we all were and you are so focused on yourself that you don’t even realize what you are doing. But once again... I need to worry about the kids and myself... I tried my best and you know it....

How do I respond to this? I don’t want to make it worse. I used the word vindictive because anytime I never agreed with her she would call me vindictive to get her way. So I wanted to use it back to her. What is everyone’s take on this dialogue. I don’t know how she could say I am focused on myself when I have given her everything she wants. The house the furniture, I didn’t make it hard for her this d. I moved out for her. This is what happens anytime I don’t agree with her or don’t do what she wants. HELP PLEASE!!!

[ovrrnbw]

Why are you calling her names and what did you expect when you started the name calling? Her to not fight back?

Just tell her you understand that's how she feels and you didn't choose your words well. You clearly did though, as you chose the word "vindictive" to get her back. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO "WIN" ANYTHING WITH HER.

I don't know much about the legal requirements for your parenting arrangement, but I am laughing at the hip hop outfits. Stick to what you are legally required to do and let her go. It is probably cheaper and easier to pay for a costume than to pay for a lawyer to tell you if you have to. And you get the plus of not coming off as petty.

[SteveLW]

I need help!!! From my understanding even costumes for hip hop are part of clothing item. But I will find out from a lawyer. But here she goes again:
W: Well technically it’s a dance costume that we chose for them to do extra so it’s part of activities. And if you remember I brought your child support down by a lot. So are we going to go there?

Me: I know you did. But you get to keep both your paychecks plus get part of mine. So what does my support go to?

W: Every day things... their clothes, their home, their food but this is a costume expense. I have not asked you for a penny for their clothes or anything like that... this is a costume expense for both kids. Not for nothing... nowhere in our paperwork does it day I had to give you half of the insurance check and I gave it to you without you even asking...

Me: I would have thought that was a given since I was paying your health insurance. Since when did you become spiteful and vindictive? Who are you????

W: Vindictive? Look in the mirror. You are constantly showing why we are where we are. Constant reminder of why I made the decision that I did. Slowly everyone is seeing the real you and I don’t have to say a word. The lies right to my parents faces were a huge eye opener for them as well... sad because they had the utmost love and respect for you. I am not a vindictive person and never will be.... nothing has changed always putting the blame on others for your behavior. It’s all good though.... It really is sad. I know you were hurt by all of this but we all were and you are so focused on yourself that you don’t even realize what you are doing. But once again... I need to worry about the kids and myself... I tried my best and you know it....

How do I respond to this? I don’t want to make it worse. I used the word vindictive because anytime I never agreed with her she would call me vindictive to get her way. So I wanted to use it back to her. What is everyone’s take on this dialogue. I don’t know how she could say I am focused on myself when I have given her everything she wants. The house the furniture, I didn’t make it hard for her this d. I moved out for her. This is what happens anytime I don’t agree with her or don’t do what she wants. HELP PLEASE!!!

You don't! Stop this madness.

Wolfman, let's do a little exercise.

Say the kids were with you this weekend, and the dance teacher reached out and said "Remember, the kids need their dance costumes this weekend." Would you call your ex and say "Hey, the kids need dance costumes. This should come out of the money I give you for their clothing. Can I come pick up some money from you for these?"

Or would just go buy the costumes.

This exchange makes me think this is more about you bucking the fact that "NYS favors the women", rather than any true sense of principle.

Regardless, a back and forth like this with your ex is not productive......at all.

[IHCLACS]

W: Vindictive? Look in the mirror. You are constantly showing why we are where we are. Constant reminder of why I made the decision that I did. Slowly everyone is seeing the real you and I don’t have to say a word. The lies right to my parents faces were a huge eye opener for them as well... sad because they had the utmost love and respect for you. I am not a vindictive person and never will be.... nothing has changed always putting the blame on others for your behavior. It’s all good though.... It really is sad. I know you were hurt by all of this but we all were and you are so focused on yourself that you don’t even realize what you are doing. But once again... I need to worry about the kids and myself... I tried my best and you know it....

How do I respond to this? I don’t want to make it worse. I used the word vindictive because anytime I never agreed with her she would call me vindictive to get her way. So I wanted to use it back to her. What is everyone’s take on this dialogue. I don’t know how she could say I am focused on myself when I have given her everything she wants. The house the furniture, I didn’t make it hard for her this d. I moved out for her. This is what happens anytime I don’t agree with her or don’t do what she wants. HELP PLEASE!!!

Wolf did XW clarify examples or instances of how you were showing what she perceives? What lies to the XMIL/FIL? What blame and what behavior have you placed on others? What does she think you were doing or were oblivious to? You really may want to ask these questions not only to listen to her but use it as self improvement. Somethings we have to gauge on what people are trying to tell us and determine what we need to change about ourselves for the better? Or if the other person really is delusional. Get back you later with my thoughts. Work and Mother terminally ill in hospital.

[Wolfman]

I need help!!! From my understanding even costumes for hip hop are part of clothing item. But I will find out from a lawyer. But here she goes again:
W: Well technically it’s a dance costume that we chose for them to do extra so it’s part of activities. And if you remember I brought your child support down by a lot. So are we going to go there?

Me: I know you did. But you get to keep both your paychecks plus get part of mine. So what does my support go to?

W: Every day things... their clothes, their home, their food but this is a costume expense. I have not asked you for a penny for their clothes or anything like that... this is a costume expense for both kids. Not for nothing... nowhere in our paperwork does it day I had to give you half of the insurance check and I gave it to you without you even asking...

Me: I would have thought that was a given since I was paying your health insurance. Since when did you become spiteful and vindictive? Who are you????

W: Vindictive? Look in the mirror. You are constantly showing why we are where we are. Constant reminder of why I made the decision that I did. Slowly everyone is seeing the real you and I don’t have to say a word. The lies right to my parents faces were a huge eye opener for them as well... sad because they had the utmost love and respect for you. I am not a vindictive person and never will be.... nothing has changed always putting the blame on others for your behavior. It’s all good though.... It really is sad. I know you were hurt by all of this but we all were and you are so focused on yourself that you don’t even realize what you are doing. But once again... I need to worry about the kids and myself... I tried my best and you know it....

How do I respond to this? I don’t want to make it worse. I used the word vindictive because anytime I never agreed with her she would call me vindictive to get her way. So I wanted to use it back to her. What is everyone’s take on this dialogue. I don’t know how she could say I am focused on myself when I have given her everything she wants. The house the furniture, I didn’t make it hard for her this d. I moved out for her. This is what happens anytime I don’t agree with her or don’t do what she wants. HELP PLEASE!!!

You don't! Stop this madness.

Wolfman, let's do a little exercise.

Say the kids were with you this weekend, and the dance teacher reached out and said "Remember, the kids need their dance costumes this weekend." Would you call your ex and say "Hey, the kids need dance costumes. This should come out of the money I give you for their clothing. Can I come pick up some money from you for these?"

Or would just go buy the costumes.

This exchange makes me think this is more about you bucking the fact that "NYS favors the women", rather than any true sense of principle.

Regardless, a back and forth like this with your ex is not productive......at all.

Steve so what do I do? You were one of the s few who “got” their marriage back. Do I say something like what overr said? And Steve honestly I would have paid it and told her she owes me money. I played nice with her for so long. What does everyone say on here don’t be a doormat. Well I was, I was trying to “nice” her back. Got me no where but still divorced.

[SteveLW]

I need help!!! From my understanding even costumes for hip hop are part of clothing item. But I will find out from a lawyer. But here she goes again:
W: Well technically it’s a dance costume that we chose for them to do extra so it’s part of activities. And if you remember I brought your child support down by a lot. So are we going to go there?

Me: I know you did. But you get to keep both your paychecks plus get part of mine. So what does my support go to?

W: Every day things... their clothes, their home, their food but this is a costume expense. I have not asked you for a penny for their clothes or anything like that... this is a costume expense for both kids. Not for nothing... nowhere in our paperwork does it day I had to give you half of the insurance check and I gave it to you without you even asking...

Me: I would have thought that was a given since I was paying your health insurance. Since when did you become spiteful and vindictive? Who are you????

W: Vindictive? Look in the mirror. You are constantly showing why we are where we are. Constant reminder of why I made the decision that I did. Slowly everyone is seeing the real you and I don’t have to say a word. The lies right to my parents faces were a huge eye opener for them as well... sad because they had the utmost love and respect for you. I am not a vindictive person and never will be.... nothing has changed always putting the blame on others for your behavior. It’s all good though.... It really is sad. I know you were hurt by all of this but we all were and you are so focused on yourself that you don’t even realize what you are doing. But once again... I need to worry about the kids and myself... I tried my best and you know it....

How do I respond to this? I don’t want to make it worse. I used the word vindictive because anytime I never agreed with her she would call me vindictive to get her way. So I wanted to use it back to her. What is everyone’s take on this dialogue. I don’t know how she could say I am focused on myself when I have given her everything she wants. The house the furniture, I didn’t make it hard for her this d. I moved out for her. This is what happens anytime I don’t agree with her or don’t do what she wants. HELP PLEASE!!!

You don't! Stop this madness.

Wolfman, let's do a little exercise.

Say the kids were with you this weekend, and the dance teacher reached out and said "Remember, the kids need their dance costumes this weekend." Would you call your ex and say "Hey, the kids need dance costumes. This should come out of the money I give you for their clothing. Can I come pick up some money from you for these?"

Or would just go buy the costumes.

This exchange makes me think this is more about you bucking the fact that "NYS favors the women", rather than any true sense of principle.

Regardless, a back and forth like this with your ex is not productive......at all.

Steve so what do I do? You were one of the s few who “got” their marriage back. Do I say something like what overr said? And Steve honestly I would have paid it and told her she owes me money. I played nice with her for so long. What does everyone say on here don’t be a doormat. Well I was, I was trying to “nice” her back. Got me no where but still divorced.

So I would just call her and say: "Sorry, having a bad day. Didn't mean to lash out. How about we split the costumes 50/50?"

I get the doormat thing. You're right, being one is not a good thing. But going so far the other direction where you are bitter and mean (or come across as such) isn't good either. Treat your ex like a business partner. You can be firm but be respectful.

[Jac12]

Wolf - it sounds like you would take your Ex-W in a heartbeat...you're still concerned with either being right or how your actions will affect the thinking of your Ex-W.

Maybe you shouldn't have gotten into another relationship b/c I feel like you'd drop her in a second if your Ex-W wanted to reconcile.

As for the costume...it sounds like you were trying to pick a fight. Stick to whatever is in the agreement and if you're unsure then think about your kids and how you'd like to help them as much as you can.

[Ready2Change]

I need help!!!

Hi Wolf. Ultimately this comes down to your agreements, your goals, and legal obligations.

I paid for things as long as we both agreed to things before hand. When she unilaterally decided things, I stood my ground. We had mediation at one point where I agreed to pay a little more every month in child support. The only reason I agreed to this was she agreed to "pro-se"..ie no more lawyers involved in our augments.

Personally, I would stand hard on anything that you did not agree to cover. You are also allowed to change your mind about things. You are getting your own house. Do you want more custody? You can kiss you kids goodnight in your house during your parenting time. Child support would also be recalculated.

How do I respond to this?

You don't

[joejoe1]

Wolf,

You are asking us what you should do.

IMO, you shouldn't apologize. But you state what you are willing to accept.

"ExW, I love helping my kids, I have no problem providing for them, I'm providing more than enough to allow you to purchase them, their needed outfit. but for now, I would rather keep our interactions to a minimal if it's not about the kids."

She hurled a lot of accusations at you. If they aren't true then more on. But you shouldn't apologize. Was your attacks the right thing, I don't think so, but learn and don't do them again.

Joejoe01

[IHCLACS]

I like JoeJoe's approach and delivery. Firm but polite. What I want to know though Wolf is are these accusations true and if you have a blind spot so to speak to them for what XW is saying from her perception? Again there is a fine line between gaslighting and shaming someone from a delusional and narcissistic victimhood POV, and being oblivious to your own behaviors. If you are confident that none of those accusations are true. Joe Joe's approach sounds like the ticket. Did XW clarify further on your past behaviors and why?

[neffer]

She is showing her feelings Wolf. Keep validation basics and get out of those R talks.
Keep DBing: no confrontations. Hey Wolf, she´s showing you her reality. It´s not yours, don´t buy it.

Kid first, always.

Be consistent, keep the lighthouse shining.

[LH19]

W,

Boy I have to say your girlfriend is a lucky girl. You are clearly using her to try to make your W jealous so she will want you back.

I will say this one more time. In 5 years on this board I have never seen a WW change there mind after being D for 2 months.

What is the lie you told her parents?

[Ginger1]

W,

Boy I have to say your girlfriend is a lucky girl. You are clearly using her to try to make your W jealous so she will want you back.

I will say this one more time. In 5 years on this board I have never seen a WW change there mind after being D for 2 months.

What is the lie you told her parents?

OMG. This, right here. This is why you don’t date when married. This woman is either blind or desperate. I’m sorry. There is a cold hard truth. What you are doing is not right to this lady.

[Ginger1]

By the way. I have been divorced for 12 years. Since my daughter was a baby. Dance costumes are 50/50 no matter who gets more money. Anything related to extra curricular a, like uniforms and dance costumes are split 50/50. Child care is calculated according to income.

Here is for the brutal brutal honesty. I hope you can handle it.

You come off as very entitled and you want everything to work the way you think it should. Then you spin out when it doesn’t. I am
Not saying this to be mean. But can you see how you might be coming off this way?

[Ginger1]

I’m bad at quoting, but listen to yourself!

“I used the word vindictive because that is what she used to call me. So I wanted to use it right back at her”

Wolfman, you just defined vindictive right there. What you did was the definition of vindictive. So technically, your W is right .

[Wolfman]

Wolf - it sounds like you would take your Ex-W in a heartbeat...you're still concerned with either being right or how your actions will affect the thinking of your Ex-W.

Maybe you shouldn't have gotten into another relationship b/c I feel like you'd drop her in a second if your Ex-W wanted to reconcile.n.

Maybe I shouldn’t have. But I know I will always have a love for my ex. I was with her for 20 years. But I also don’t know if I would jump right back with her. Do I miss my family,,, YES. But my GF treats me like a king. She is amazing. If my ex asked me back tomorrow i would have a lot of thinking to do. And I would have to know my ex would work on some things too. It can’t be all about me doing the work.

I need help!!!

Hi Wolf. Ultimately this comes down to your agreements, your goals, and legal obligations.
Personally, I would stand hard on anything that you did not agree to cover.

You are right. I have to abide by those 3 things and if it’s not in our agreement that I have to stand hard.

Wolf,
"ExW, I love helping my kids, I have no problem providing for them, I'm providing more than enough to allow you to purchase them, their needed outfit. but for now, I would rather keep our interactions to a minimal if it's not about the kids."

She hurled a lot of accusations at you. If they aren't true then more on. But you shouldn't apologize. Was your attacks the right thing, I don't think so, but learn and don't do them again.

Joejoe01

They aren’t true. I will not do that again. I just get so frustrated that I did not want this, I gave her the home, I have to pay child support, didn’t put up a fight with her and there is always more and more she is asking for. I understand now it’s not part of the child support, for me, it’s just like how much more do I have to keep giving. I know it’s for the kids and I will do anything for my kids, I just have to get use to this new life. Your answer was a great one thank you I liked it.

I like JoeJoe's approach and delivery. Firm but polite. What I want to know though Wolf is are these accusations true and if you have a blind spot so to speak to them for what XW is saying from her perception? Again there is a fine line between gaslighting and shaming someone from a delusional and narcissistic victimhood POV, and being oblivious to your own behaviors. If you are confident that none of those accusations are true. Joe Joe's approach sounds like the ticket. Did XW clarify further on your past behaviors and why?

I was vindictive in the marriage. I’ll explain how. Before I explain, I know now that what I did was wrong and will never do that again to her or anybody else. I had to learn to swallow my pride and not look to be vindictive. If she would ever turn me down for sex I would get mad. Not kiss her goodnight then or kiss her goodbye in the morning. If I asked her do do something like clean up her clothes and she didn’t do it, if she asked me for a favor then I wouldn’t do it. Again, totally wrong behavior!!! I hate myself for being like that. But I apologized for these behaviors when we first separated and acknowledged them and how they were wrong. But she does uses the word “vindictive” loosely. If I was busy doing something around the house and didn’t do something for her she would use that word. If I didn’t agree with her about something she would say that.

She is showing you her feelings wolf. Hey Wolf, she´s showing you her reality.

What do you mean by this? Showing her feelings and her reality?

W,

Boy I have to say your girlfriend is a lucky girl. You are clearly using her to try to make your W jealous so she will want you back.

I will say this one more time. In 5 years on this board I have never seen a WW change there mind after being D for 2 months.

What is the lie you told her parents?

I am not using her to make my ex jealous. I really do like her. And why do you keep saying about a WW change her mind? Not all do, and I will bet you she will never change her mind!! Actually there was no lie I ever told her parents. What she is referring to, which is none of her parents business was me dating someone. She tells her parents everything I did or done. And the lie that they think I told them was me still loving their daugher. But this is a conversation I had with them at the beginning of my situation. They think because now that I am dating that that was a lie. That was something I told them a year ago.

Here is for the brutal brutal honesty. I hope you can handle it.

You come off as very entitled and you want everything to work the way you think it should. Then you spin out when it doesn’t. I am
Not saying this to be mean. But can you see how you might be coming off this way?

My sense of entitlement is wanting the family back together. Also I worked so hard on that home so yeah I do feel a little sense of entitlement, I busted my butt for many years to get that home the way we wanted it, to now, having to walk away. Bust my butt and to give her all this money when I have the kids 50% yeah it bothers me!!

[Ginger1]

You aren’t giving HER money. You are giving your kids money. When you pay child support it’s based on a fair calculation. Do you ha e any doubt she isn’t using that money for the good of the kids? You act like everything is an attack on you and you are being sucked dry. These are your kids.

I understand putting heart into your home and not getting to live there. That’s difficult. But don’t carry around that bitterness. Make a new beautiful home for you and your kids.

You do know that years of vindictive behavior cannot be forgiven by apologizing at separation, right? It takes tome to show change. Where is the change? You still seem pretty vindictive .

And you like your new girl because she treats you like a king. It’s about you. How do you treat her? I still stand by you treating her unfairly by being with her because she treats you like a king while you have this attachment and bitterness towards your wife.

Settle yourself out first. Do the inner work. Give yourself tome and chance to get rid of the bitterness. And make sure you can that you wouldn’t dump your girl if your ex did what you wanted to. I know many hearts that have gotten broken that way and it just isn’t fair.

[LH19]

W,

Listen to G she is a wise woman.

Looks like dating early got you into a lot of trouble. Also, looks like your still selfish and unwilling to put someone else’s needs first unless you’re getting something in return.

I have asked you many times how you’ve changed and what I got from you was your keep the kids activities on a calendar and you don’t get mad and argue anymore. We are now finding the latter to not be true so looks like with all the pain you went through you now know how to keep a calendar.

You have a lot of work to do my friend.

[AnotherStander]

Maybe I shouldn’t have. But I know I will always have a love for my ex. I was with her for 20 years. But I also don’t know if I would jump right back with her. Do I miss my family,,, YES.

I miss my old life, it was nice and it was a huge part of who I was. I miss taking care of the kids, and getting ready for Santa, and getting them settled in to sleep at night, and going to football games to watch them in cheer and band, and helping them with homework, etc. etc. Here's the thing, I could remarry my XW but those things are not returning. My kids are grown now. I love them to pieces, and I love spending adult time with them. But my old life is gone and it will never return whether my XW ever wants to reconcile or not. I love my XW, but it's more like the love you have for a relative, not for a wife and lover. I love her but I wouldn't want to be married to her again. I think that's where a lot of LBS's end up. If you have kids then your life is destined to change in huge ways over time regardless of the state of your marriage.

But my GF treats me like a king. She is amazing.

Enjoy it while it lasts, but all relationships eventually fall out of limerence and settle into something more long-term. The first year I dated my GF she treated me like a king too. Now? Well maybe a prince, but at least that's still better than the court jester, LOL! I was never in limerence with her, but I recognized it in her and I didn't set my expectations based on that. I waited to see what our R would look like AFTER that. And it's very good, but she is not as "all-in" as she was that first year, and that is fine. So don't get too wound up in how things are going just yet, and try not to get too deep into limerence yourself.

[Jac12]

Wolf - it sounds like you would take your Ex-W in a heartbeat...you're still concerned with either being right or how your actions will affect the thinking of your Ex-W.

Maybe you shouldn't have gotten into another relationship b/c I feel like you'd drop her in a second if your Ex-W wanted to reconcile.n.

Maybe I shouldn’t have. But I know I will always have a love for my ex. I was with her for 20 years. But I also don’t know if I would jump right back with her. Do I miss my family,,, YES. But my GF treats me like a king. She is amazing. If my ex asked me back tomorrow i would have a lot of thinking to do. And I would have to know my ex would work on some things too. It can’t be all about me doing the work.

You can have love but know that you don't want a relationship with someone. It "sounds" like you just want someone to treat you well to prove your value. I don't blame you for wanting that but it makes things messy unless you are fully done with your old R. Especially with kids involved in my opinion. I think this is why every Vet on here promotes working on yourself during this process so that you know when you're ready to move on and you see the value in yourself.

I'm 13 months in to my situation and I thought about dating a few months ago but I knew I wasn't ready and my W still was working through her own inner turmoil. I haven't met any new women or been on any dates bc I know I still want things to work out with my W and until that door is closed I'll be focusing on my own personal growth. I'll add that my W said some awful things to me early on and I thought we had maybe 5% chance at best but that's just based on moments in time. Things change and it's best to not jump the gun IMO.

[job]

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