Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10
#2872082 11/13/19 10:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870433&page=11

It's a weird revelation to think I can't trust her, I guess in her mind I'm no longer somebody important to her, she has been going on about having a private life since bd, and early on she admitted she felt she had to delete texts and messages in some babble about no longer trusting me.

Part of me just wants to ask her straight up "can I trust you?"

Because at the end of the day all the early spoken agreements about the seperation, splitting of assets etc, which were all amicable have given way to accusations of abuse, asking me to leave etc etc.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
If I pursue whether those early agreements stand, I also feel that this will push her into going legal and doubling down on abuse claims, so for now maybe it's not a great idea to raise it?


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Further question, sorry folks.
I haven't completed DB book yet.
Am I in LRT situation right now , is LRT what I should be doing or am at some earlier stage.

All feels very final and doom and gloom right now, but then again I'm pretty impatient about all this

Last edited by Jdevast; 11/13/19 11:16 PM.

Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 157
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 157
Originally Posted by Jdevast
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870433&page=11

It's a weird revelation to think I can't trust her, I guess in her mind I'm no longer somebody important to her, she has been going on about having a private life since bd, and early on she admitted she felt she had to delete texts and messages in some babble about no longer trusting me.

Part of me just wants to ask her straight up "can I trust you?"

Because at the end of the day all the early spoken agreements about the seperation, splitting of assets etc, which were all amicable have given way to accusations of abuse, asking me to leave etc etc.


I'm the same way with my WW. Just blatant lies to the face. I keep wanting to ask why are you lying and what is your motive, because I find myself spiraling about getting blind sided / stabbed in the back.


Originally Posted by Jdevast
Further question, sorry folks.
I haven't completed DB book yet.
Am I in LRT situation right now , is LRT what I should be doing or am at some earlier stage.

All feels very final and doom and gloom right now, but then again I'm pretty impatient about all this


Honestly, by the time most people are desperate enough to find this forum, the MR is already in LRT sitch. Same can be said for most people that go see an MC, the MR is already hanging on by the nails.


Last edited by LovingIt; 11/14/19 12:25 AM.
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Asking her if you can trust her is silly, since it implies you trust her answer! Now, asking what she would’ve said if you’d asked yesterday if you could trust her—clever!

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
So just heard from the kids, wife's sister is offering to pay for them all to go to Argentina,
Not a word from the wife to me on this.
Not sure how I feel, it's a long long way from the UK.

Was gonna message this morning " kids mentioned going to Argentina soon?"

She's going to ask something like "are you ok with it, or you can trust me"

Should I just go with something like "trust is pretty low for everyone at the moment, let me think about it"


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Originally Posted by "JDevast Imagination"

Me: "Kids mentioned going to Argentina soon?"
Her: "Are you ok with it, you can trust me?"
Me: "Trust is pretty low for everyone at the moment, let me think about it"

Hi JDevast,

I don't see the practical point to this exchange. To let her know the kids are telling you her plans? To work out "You misled me, so I don't trust you anymore" baggage by expressing your feelings?

I guess I'd figure out: (a) Whether you have valid concerns about your ex taking this trip, (b) what control you have over her choice, if any and (c) Propose a parallel parenting plan for less wiggly boundaries.

When I filed for D, it included a restraining order. Neither my ex nor I could cross state lines without the approval of the other parent. The final parenting plan loosened that up to not crossing international borders without approval. In my case I had legitimate concerns. My ex-wife had family in one particular country and one of her fantasy scenarios to escape stressors here was to move there and start life over. The US typically requires both parents to sign off on travel papers. I doubt that applies in your case, though.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
HI JDevast,

Originally Posted by JDevast
Said these were some examples of the type of parenting plan I was thinking off, I'm open to suggestions, let me know what you think?

No response yet, was a few hours ago,


Originally Posted by JDevast
So I sent over email with proposals for co-parenting plan,

Recieved an immediate mail back:

Her: this is for co-parenting, I want a parallel parenting plan


Hi JDevast, it sounds like your wife is more responsive when you send concrete plans than when you try to engage her in a discussion or send her examples of types of plans. Have you sent a new proposal yet that better matches her needs (parallel, as little interaction with you as possible) to lock down your boundaries? Vague boundaries seem to play out well for her but not as well for you.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Jdevast
It's a weird revelation to think I can't trust her, I guess in her mind I'm no longer somebody important to her, she has been going on about having a private life since bd, and early on she admitted she felt she had to delete texts and messages in some babble about no longer trusting me.

Part of me just wants to ask her straight up "can I trust you?"


You're going through an adjustment period and she is too. You will have some kind of relationship on the other side even if it's just a co-parenting one. During the transition you both will have a lack of trust for each other. You will wonder and second-guess each other's actions and motives. After the transition some level of trust will return. It won't be the same as when you were married, but there will be mutual trust and respect again. Until then, be wary of everything she says and does. You can't trust her right now because she has hidden motives.

Quote
Am I in LRT situation right now , is LRT what I should be doing or am at some earlier stage.


A lot of DB is written as if the spouse isn't a full-blown WAS yet, they are maybe one foot out the door. But 99% of the people that end up on these forums are dealing with a full-blown WAS with both feet out the door. So yes, LRT is appropriate for you I think.

Quote
So just heard from the kids, wife's sister is offering to pay for them all to go to Argentina,
Not a word from the wife to me on this.
Not sure how I feel, it's a long long way from the UK.


You should absolutely be informed. Not sure about the UK but in the US it is written into S and D agreements that each person must inform the other in writing before taking the kids out of state. Beyond the legal side of things, it's just the polite and respectful thing to do. Here's what I would suggest- sit down with your W and tell her the kids told you she's planning a trip with them, ask her (politely) if that's the case. Tell her that as part of your co-parenting plan the two of you need to inform each other before taking the kids on a trip, and discuss the details of the trip first. Try not to be nosy about it, IE asking if there will be any potential OM's on the trip. Keep it focused on the kids. When are they leaving, when will they be back, are there any safety/ security issues, that sort of thing.

Quote
Should I just go with something like "trust is pretty low for everyone at the moment, let me think about it"


No I wouldn't say that. Don't tell her you don't trust her, just keep in mind internally that you can't trust her and act accordingly. Also no "let me think about it" because that is controlling. That implies she needs your permission, which she doesn't. She can do whatever she wants. You just want to be informed before she does, and you're trying to negotiate that with her, and offer her the same courtesy in return.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Ok, thanks guys,
Objectivity is not my strong point at the moment, responsive emotions to every miniscule interaction or thought that pops into my head seem to be controlling my mind right now.
Impatient for a glimmer that we could ever reconcile, so yes still fully attached like a puppet on a string.

I did check and under uk law anyone with parental responsibility has to give written permission for their child to leave the country.
I don't have any valid concerns that she wouldn't return,

Honestly I'm flailing looking for ways to be assertive, hoping to regain some respect ( was never assertive with her and often passive aggressive avoiding conflict)

Learning to be more confident and assertive is one of my goals,

Again I don't think I truly appreciate how long things may take, if ever.

Realise im not really accepting that I can't turn this around and fix it quick.

Going to try and find some focus on some 180s, demonstrating I can be trusted and respected through the shared business and take it baby steps from there.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283


1) I have Email as primary form of communication written into my D agreement. That was one of my boundaries.

2) Focus on reducing confusion, clarifying and getting agreements.

3) Be very civil.

4) Get agreements to be reciprocal.




For context:

One of my emails from a long thread:
Originally Posted by ME
XW,

Thank you for clarifying the dates for your vacation plans. There was definitely confusion when the information about your trip was coming only from the children.

As far as dropping the kids off at 5p on Wednesday, I am flexible. If flights are delayed or weather is bad, please text me as soon as you know you will be late so we can plan accordingly.

Also, I have no intention on calling the police. Not sure why you would think that unless you are referring to our conversations back in November 2012 when I yet again brought it to your attention that we must ask (not inform) each other for exceptions to parenting time when needed.

Good luck in the marathon and enjoy your time with our kids. R2C


Another:

Originally Posted by ME
It appears there is some confusion regarding this fathers day. I would like to reach a mothers day / fathers day agreement with you.

I was talking to the children about fathers day and they all said "Mom said she doesn't want us to be with you on fathers day and there is nothing in the paperwork." In the past, you have dropped the kids off the night before at 6p and I dropped them back off at 6p. I did check the divorce agreement and there is nothing regarding Fathers day or Mothers day.

I see two options that are best for our children and allow them to spend mothers day/ fathers day with the appropriate parent:

1) 24 hour option --> 8:30p the night before to 8:30p the night of
2) 11.5 hour option --> 9a the day of to 8:30p the day of

Do either of these sound good to you? If not, do you have another suggestion?

If I don't hear back from you by 5p today, I will initiate the mediation process to help us come to resolution.

Thanks for you attention to this matter.

Best Regards,R2C
Originally Posted by HER
I searched the paperwork last week and saw nothing regarding Mother's/Father's Day. I told the kids that we would stop by so that they could see you and then we head to celebrate with my dad.
Originally Posted by ME
Yes, searching the paperwork will not give you the answer to my question. Searching your core values will. I have spoken with each of the children and they all expressed their deep desires to share mothers day with you and fathers day with me. We can do the right thing for our kids and allow them to spend fathers day with me and mothers day with you. Or we can fall back on legal paperwork. Your choice. I just suggest making the right choice for the right reasons.

If you change your mind before 1p tomorrow (That will give you ample time to speak with the children and hear their true feelings as well as consult anyone else) , let me know and we can work out the exchange times.

If I don't hear back from you, I will consider this matter closed (even though I don't think it is the right choice) and we will stick to the normal parenting schedule on mothers day and fathers day from this point forward.

Best Regards,R2c


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
So just heard from the kids, wife's sister is offering to pay for them all to go to Argentina,
Not a word from the wife to me on this.



I would take this as an opportunity to negotiate "Vacation time".

I would take it as an opportunity to politely point out that i you would prefer to hear about this from her rather than the children.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Managed to discuss the trip to Argentina, was a few messages from her regarding work early eve, I dropped it in that kids mentioned they were going soon.

Her: not soon, but sister has offered to pay for tickets and show them that part of the world if it's ok with you?
Me: that's really good of her, sounds like an amazing experience for them.
Her: yes kids are excited.
Me: I'm happy for them

So I felt kinda good that I hadn't descended into being obstructive for the sake of it.

She dropped kids off and mentioned a few swaps to days she would like to request over xmas ( now using a scheduling app although still waiting for her to get back to me on parenting plan proposals I sent)

Me: sure, we can look at all that when we agree the plan and have some structure going forward.

Her: a little flustered, I'm not ready to respond to all those things, why does it mention that you want kids to retain access to my sister and your parents, of course they can.

Me: just following the template format, it identifies all those things as things we should agree.

Her: what template?

Me: the example form I sent you last week

Her: I didn't see it , I was sick

Me: that's ok, when you get a chance

And she left

Later on early evening my kids asked to vid chat her, so I let them call her,

She's at home, they chat, my son calls me over to talk to the pet birds back at the family home, my wife makes a real point of the phone camera not showing her while I'm on the call.
I see her anyway, She's dressed up to the nines.

I don't say anything and stay Pma.

But man, afterwards my head is spinning, She's entertaining someone in the family home.

I know it's unhealthy and nothing I can control

Just hard, so want there to be some hope, and temptation to pursue is maddening at times.
I can only trust in you guys that DBing is my best hope,
The time and patience required seems unreal.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Just another daily update,
Needing to get my thoughts out rather than swimming in my head,

Zero communication this morning, usually a number of messages about work.

Then this afternoon a couple of work messages from her,
1st was asking if I could pick up daughter as she had so much to do

( I figured she had either attended a legal meeting or a victim support group, I could see from my end that she had done next to nothing in getting online orders out over the last 2 days.

Made the choice to wait 45 minutes before responding, replied I can pick her up, but have to somewhere until 2.30. If I pick her up will you run orders to post office tmrw?

She agreed, then all further messages were extremely cold and business like from her.

Realized that perhaps I have been far to friendly and positive in our message exchanges so far.
Been trying to just give off a Pma, but also feel that she perhaps thinks I think everything is normal between us.

Maybe I just need to dial back a bit, stay positive but not too friendly.

Another day of repressing urges for a r talk.

Today I have mostly been wanting to hold my hands up and let her know I take accountability for my half of the relationship issues and at same time raise her half that she is glossing over, highlight some of her controlling behaviour

Sure that would all go down well lol!

Seriously, is there a time to raise these things, is it way way down the road?


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Way down the road if she desires to recon.

Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 107
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 107
My W will drop her R talk bombs, and then say she doesn't want to talk about the R and leave it there. She paints everything in the most negative light, which is why it's so difficult to say nothing about that, I believe the more she repeats this stuff the more she digs in to her narrative.

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Realized that perhaps I have been far to friendly and positive in our message exchanges so far.
Been trying to just give off a Pma, but also feel that she perhaps thinks I think everything is normal between us.


Remember the picnic/castle analogy. She's going to sloooowly come out of the castle to look at what you're doing and then run back in, raise the drawbridge and board the windows with no explanation. Then sloooowly come out again and repeat.

Quote
Maybe I just need to dial back a bit, stay positive but not too friendly.


Again with the picnic analogy- you just keep having your picnic. You don't change what you're doing in response to her coming closer or running away. Consistency!

Quote
Today I have mostly been wanting to hold my hands up and let her know I take accountability for my half of the relationship issues and at same time raise her half that she is glossing over, highlight some of her controlling behaviour

Sure that would all go down well lol!


Oh she would love it. She already thinks everything is your fault (in typical WAS fashion), so basically you would just be giving her reassurances that indeed, it IS all your fault. LBS's have tried this and it always backfires. The WAS will use their own words against them, sometimes even documenting it and using it in court to "prove" the LBS is a bad spouse or even parent.

Quote
Seriously, is there a time to raise these things, is it way way down the road?


If you ever get to the point of recon discussions, then you can BOTH talk about areas of improvement. Not to blame each other but to sort out what you want moving forward.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
So I was all 20mins ago with enjoying my picnic and projecting a Pma.

Check in on the joint account and it's clear she went out for dinner and drinks ( telling myself it's just her friends)

Money into that account was from a joint welfare claim and agreed was for bills, kids and food only.

Itching to raise it now, will raise hell I'm sure. Or sit on it for a few days and get my wording straight?


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Another day.
Went out last night, told my kids I was going out for dinner and drinks with some friends.
I had to stop by the house 1st to drop my s12 phone off.

He invites me in to see the birds, I check with wife and she says it's ok.
Kept a real Pma, laughing with the kids, Wife sits on sofa refusing to even look or engage with me.
I leave keeping things positive.

This morning receive a message at 08.30am
Her: will be over at 10.30 to collect rest of kids things, can you do all the orders today, I can't work all day as I have the kids.
My phone was off but replied at 11am
"Phone ran out, back at home now, all the kids stuff is ready whenever you are. I may go into work later this afternoon.

No response

She turns up at the door with d6 at 12.00.
I invite her in, offer her tea, she declines, she asks if she can borrow a cigarette.
I say sure, and start packing the kids gear into the car.
Again all Pma with me and d6.
Again she's barely speaking to me and avoiding any eye contact with me.

She leaves, feel I handled the interaction well, but really hurts and feels like I'm projecting that I'm not bothered about our MR.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
So I went out last night, trying hard to Gal and met some friends, also bumped into some shared friends of mine and wife who I hadn't seen in 10 years.

My wife's new best friend also appeared at same venue which made everything awkward.
Said hi to her, not much more.

Son video called me this morning, Wife is in the background, obviously still angry with me.
Messaged her to say I had seen old friends and that they had said to say hi.

Immediate message back
"Please don't send messages from other friends to me"

I replied "Ok, noted"

Can't cope with this hatred and coldness some days.
Get the real sense she is doubling down on her narrative of who and what I am, definitely being enabled by this friend.

Had discussed my sitch with a mate last night and he raised how his wife had raised how much time my wife is spending with new friend, my son has raised it too.
Feel like she has actually replaced me with this friend and they are sitting in an echo chamber.

Been absolutely zero lowering of that drawbridge for 2 weeks now.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
J,

I doubt you’re going see any movement because you guys have more contact then some married couples. Time and space are the only things that term these sitches around long term.

Really you messaged her to say old friends said hi????

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Yeah, that was really stupid of me, not sure what I was thinking,
I need to step back again.
I seem to be lurching from doing ok and then flailing about saying the wrong things.

LH19 are you saying we have too much contact for any chance of db working?


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Originally Posted by Jdevast
My wife's new best friend also appeared at same venue which made everything awkward.
Said hi to her, not much more.

Messaged her to say I had seen old friends and that they had said to say hi.


Hi JDevast,

Didn’t you promise a week ago to NOT talk to her friends?

Originally Posted by JDevast
Her: and my friends , stay away from them and don't talk to them about me, make your own friends.

Me: understood ,I will not speak to any of them, I had only said hi to ------ and did not discuss us.


Yep.

When you said “OK” tonight to not relaying messages from shared friends, was that an agreement, and do you intend to keep it?


Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Yep, I'm not going to pass on any messages to her from anyone,

I messed up last night, had a drink too many and should have stayed completely clear of her friend.

Made the mistake of mixing Gal, socialising etc with a drink and it's a small town. I'm not in control when I've had a few
Feel I've set stuff back a fair way.

Don't know how to proceed except pulling right back, again going to have to communicate re work and kids.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
J,

I would suggest you cut back on your drinking if you can't control yourself.

Ok. First let's talk about your statement of DB working. DB is a way of life that gives you the best chance at recon. So far I have to say you are below average at following the process.

With all the contact you have she is never going to have a chance to miss you. She will never figure out that you are the reason she is so unhappy.

I will say this though the way she is treating you leads me to believe there are signs there are still feelings. Most WWs who are just done will try to keep it amicable until the process is over.

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks for your advice and thoughts LH19
I agree I've been struggling and yes we have almost daily messaging conversations

I think it's up to me to cut that back somehow
I need to reset this week, study up again on the rules and LRT

I'm seeing my IC for the 1st time this week and hoping this will help

After this weekend's foolishness I will be cutting the drinking right back

In addition to dialling down the contact do you have any other advice on where I can improve?

I do really appreciate and value the input


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
Detach and crush your life. Be a great dad, get in the gym, run a half marathon, take guitar lessons. No that no matter what happens you will have a great life.

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
J, it's very hard but you must not communicate unless absolutely necessary (e.g. urgent finance stuff, kids, and not much else except extraordinary family emergencies).

I'm in the same boat - I do fine for a week or two then I have a lapse. I don't reach out like I used to now, but I do think about her and wonder/worry. I have to keep telling myself to stop doing that. I cannot control her, I cannot force her to change her mind. You must do the same.

It's awful because you feel you are ignoring her. But that is part of detaching. Keep reading the detachment thread; I try to revisit it every week or so.

You have to keep up GAL and PMA.


Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Been re reading the detachment thread, think this is where my focus should be.

This morning I receive a phone call from WAW, saying she had been thinking about a coach trip to London with the kids to see the Xmas lights etc and invited me along as she thought it would be good for the kids.
She asked if I was free to come.

I replied I would need to check but that it sounded like a good idea for the kids.

She then started talking about how she is struggling with the house and needs to get a cleaner
I just let her talk about it, and validated.

2 hours later I receive a message, that she's been thinking about the trip and no longer thinks it's a good idea, she doesn't feel comfortable with it.
I reply, that's ok.

Then she's immediately back to messages about work
" how are the orders going today"?


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
I think she enjoys messing with you. Water off a ducks back.

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Yeah
I have to remember she's not as in control of her emotions as she makes out.
She's a master at portraying her strength and has a lifetime habit of convincing others to go along with her thinking.

Just going to step back as much as I can


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
J, I can't stress this enough, you're in the long game. I think you're still hoping that if you do this and that it'll trigger some change in her and things will go back to the way they were. But that's not going to happen. If you can do 180's, and stick to them, and focus on you and the kids, and leave your W alone, then that is your best chance to affect some change in her way down the road (6 months, a year, maybe more). But you can't rub her face in it, like contacting her to tell her that her friends said hello. I think if you're honest with yourself you're wanting to tell her "look at me, I'm GAL'ing!" But for now, she just doesn't care. She doesn't love you, and she probably doesn't like you. All your actions just look like sad, pathetic tricks to get her back. She knows you're faking it right now, she can read you like a book. Stop putting on a show for her.

Here's the trick to GAL'ing- it's not initially fun and exciting. You'll HATE it. You're hurting, and you want to curl up in a ball somewhere and be miserable. Don't pretend to be out having a good time when you're not. It's OK to be down and hurting! You don't have to hide it from everyone all the time. Just don't blatantly bawl in front of people or pour your heart out (unless it's here). Try to act as-if, but don't try to act like you don't care. Right? Just MAKE yourself GAL. Go through the motions. Keep doing it and eventually you'll start liking your GAL, and think less about your W. Then you'll start loving it, and you will start putting your sitch behind you. That is how it works- slowly over time. And that is how it will impact your W- slowly over time. There are no magic bullets here or anywhere else on the Internet for this. Progress is measured in tiny baby steps that over time may add up to something bigger.

I think I mentioned before that it was silly to agree not to talk to mutual friends or even "her" friends. This is your life and your GAL, live it. It's going to intersect with her life now and then, if she doesn't like that then that is TOUGH SH** for her. She needs to suck it up, because you're a force to be reckoned with, and you're not going to tuck tail and run just because one of her friends walked into the same room, are you.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks AS
I needed to hear that
I think there has definitely been some desperation to go out and show I can make friends and have a social life too.
And yes definitely wanted her to know about it.

Some of this stems from realizations of just how withdrawn and isolated I had become over the past few years.

But I need to slow down and take care of myself and my kids first.
Work on myself emotionally and mentally and stop blowing in the wind.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Hi JDevast,

I strongly second everything AnotherStander said in his last post. You can do this!

re: Alcohol, I was surprised when you mentioned drinking this weekend. You say you were drinking and a bit out-of-control when you spoke to her new best friend. You started this thread by saying:

Originally Posted by "JDevast initially"
i was a chronic alcoholic for the 1st 9 years of our relationship until my wife sought help and identified me as an emotional abuser.

Originally Posted by "JDevast this weekend"
I messed up last night, had a drink too many and should have stayed completely clear of her friend. I'm not in control when I've had a few

What are your 180s related to alcohol? Are you regularly attending Alcoholics Anonymous and/or completing a treatment plan? People serious about taking control of their lives back from alcohol rarely rely on willpower. Alcoholism is an addiction. It's also hard to imagine that the choice to drink alcohol has been "worth it" in your life--that it's done something so positive that outweighs the above negatives.

Limitations afford us growth opportunities, visible 180s that can improve our lives measurably.

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Hi Cwarrior.
Alcohol was certainly an issue for me, prior to our first break up I was avoiding coming home straight after work and stopping by the pub with friends for a couple every night. Always home by 8 but a terrible habit.

When my wife confronted me on this 4 years ago I went straight into AA and counselling to address underlying causes.
Stopped drinking overnight and didn't touch anything for 3 years.

When we relocated, I was out with my wife and she asked me if I felt I could have a drink with her, I agreed to one, and felt I was now in control.
Over the last 18months I have had a beer or 2 maybe once every 6 weeks, everything seemingly under control.

Conversely my wife had several heavy nights out of drink and drugs
And eventually decided to quit completely

That is until her recent mindset over the last 7 months were she has increasingly been full on on the party scene again.

Our early relationship was pretty much all about the party scene, drinks and drugs And on some level I have been wanting to compete with her.
Show her I can go out and have fun too.

Pretty childish I know.

Biggest visible 180s I could do are quit smoking and address booze.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
JDevast,

I've struggled with drinking, too. 3-4 nights this past year I got drunk--and felt embarrassed the next day. This last happened two weeks ago. Reconciling doesn't magically fix all life's problems! Apparently, 26.4% of US adults drank heavilythis past month, and I wasn't even alone that night two weeks ago.

What I did differently this time was I decided not to beat myself up. I had a fun and productive day after. Further, I weighed the pros and cons of drinking and dumped my liquor cabinet. My life-enrichening experiences with alcohol usually involved exotic places or fine beers or wines, not that cabinet.

Keeping it real. Minimal beating myself up. Minimal willpower.

People who have a more troublesome relationship with alcohol may need to quit entirely. My partner quickly noticed, but it'll likely be months before she decides whether the changes are permanent or not.

Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
Hi J

I think it's good you're going to 180 on the smoking and drinking.

Cold turkey can be hard but often the best way to overcome something. For me it was porn addiction that harmed my R and M. I went cold turkey and started IC simultaneously. I remember 2 months or so in, my W asked, "So you've not had any relapses?" And I could honestly say "Nope." very confidently. She looked rather annoyed!
Now 6 months later I'm 'free' of it. Doesn't really enter my head, because over time I've identified and found things to replace it with; good positive things that help with overall self-esteem and PMA.

I think if you 180 on a few major things, and consistently keep that up, it'll get noticed by lots of people. Don't do it just to get W's attention. Do it to better yourself, and then other friends will notice first. It'll be gradual ("Hey, you are looking very well these days") and then it'll eventually snowball.


Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks for the encouragement guys. It means a lot.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Just journaling
Nothing major to report,

Did some detachment reading last night, a letting go meditation and a detaching sleep hypnosis.
Ending up waking at 3am with severe anxiety.
Hoping it was just feelings coming to the fore.

But had her on my mind and everything I ever did wrong all morning.

Accept that detachment is a process, just kinda shook me up. Reminding myself to be kind to myself.

Forced it, but eating well today, that's a change. Need to keep it up.

Messages from wife this morning, showing me s12 term reports, he is struggling a bit, but
Agreed he was doing pretty well considering everything he's going through this term.

Stated I would contact his mentor today to arrange a meeting.

Wife: if we are having Xmas lunch out somewhere together we should book somewhere soon.
Me: I will look at options today.

Then a stream of work messages from her about how many orders she will be doing, how busy she is, what orders I'm doing.
Didn't respond to most, just the essentials and kept it brief.

I then get a call from energy provider for the family house (account is in my name)
Notifying me they had a request to switch to another provider and they would be objecting due to outstanding debt.
Notified I no longer lived there, to remove my name and speak directly to my wife.

Messaged her to notify her.

Her: we can get a much cheaper deal with xyz. And pay off debt.

Me: I'm good with you making any switches. I've notified them I'm no longer named on the account.


No response as of 3hours.

Nothing major ,like I say, just journaling


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Sounds like a productive day—reading up on detachment, meditations, talking about the kids grades and initiating your own action plan without seeking her approval, Xmas lunch plans, keeping the work texts brief. Days like this show her you two are capable of working together on matters related to children and business.

I’d still aim for yet more conciseness. A minor nitpick—

Originally Posted by Jdevast
Her: we can get a much cheaper deal with xyz. And pay off debt.

Me: I'm good with you making any switches. I've notified them I'm no longer named on the account


Your two statements are at odds. The first approves her change, implying you’re in control. The second states she’s in control. I don’t know what you two agreed two on this, where the truth lies especially when debt is involved.

.


Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Actually nothing has been agreed other than I take my name's off the bills at the house,
Initially we were going to sit down and go through them together until the last few weeks where she is completely walls up, distrustful and behaves like I am a threat to her.

Plenty of messages from her about Xmas lunch this evening.

Told her everywhere is pretty booked up, one spot at a carvery, £xyz a head.

Her: what! I'm not paying that for a carvery!

I made a joke: " but includes complimentary crackers"

Her: I guess we would be paying for people to work Xmas day.

Me: yes, double time at least.

No further responses, not sure I should have made a joke or not in this situation.

Going to wait for her to come back to me.

Personally I just wish we could find a way to have Xmas lunch together with the kids.
Pretty sure she's not having that though.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
More anxiety last night, nearly every night now at 3am.
Have to turn to sleep hypnosis or meditations to clear her from my mind.

One major valid point I don't think I mentioned in original post.
Back during early days of BD after I shared with my wife my depression and close call with suicidal thoughts,

she initially was supportive until going to speak to her friends/ enablers and then in a rage accusing me of emotional abuse.
At that time I broke down, would have down anything to placate her.

I contacted an emotional abuse perpetrators programme and they offered me a place on a course in London.
There has been a waiting list for self referrals as their priorities are court referrals.

I don't accept all my wife's claims of emotional abuse especially not the intimacy issues being a way of controlling her but I am open to exploring any controlling behaviours or mindsets I do have so I can work on them and better myself.

Last night she messaged out of the blue.
Her: can I just ask why you attended programme in London and not anywhere closer?
Me: I was advised they were the closest providers
Her: ok

No contact since a day later.
Not sure what to make of it.

Due to both attend son's school meeting today, strangely no contact from her to confirm , so I will attend regardless.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Just updating

Met at the school with wife and s12.
Off the bat could tell she was uncomfortable, I was friendly without over doing it, said hi and she actually acknowledged it.
Kept focused on Pma with s12, while we sat and waited to meet his mentor, she made a point of getting up and looking at bumf on the walls.
Meeting with mentor went really well.

Positive feedback for son and we were both able to engage with son and mentor in a positive way.

Both expressed our pride in him.

I offered lunch to celebrate son's progress.

She agreed, and offered to drive and drive me back to the school after to pick up my bike.

Although she declined my offer to pay for her lunch

Lunch went pretty well, without reading too much into it, we were both able to be on the same page with Son,

Able to have an amicable discussion about business and she engaged with me and was able to look me in the eyes several times without it feeling awkward.

Again, carefull not to read too much into it, but feel I was able to maintain a Pma without any pressure, pursuing or mention of us.

She drove me back to get my bike, said bye to my son and that was that.

Weirdly did overtake them afterwards on my bike, seemed to tickle my son.

Last edited by Jdevast; 11/20/19 02:51 PM.

Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
JDevast, it's fantastic you're serious about attending a program to help people who have been emotionally abusive in the past and want to ensure they never are again. I recall in the initial thread you mentioned that and alcohol had been a problem, and you're working hard now to avoid problems with either. I think you're right--attending voluntarily would be rare. This could be a game-changer for your future and show your wife and her support group how serious you are about being the best husband possible, no?

I bet it's been frustrating your wife's been quick to accuse you of abuse even when it's not so. I'm glad you got a nice respite with yesterday's lunch, and that she's asking about your treatment program.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
i was a chronic alcoholic for the 1st 9 years of our relationship until my wife sought help and identified me as an emotional abuser.this was devastating for me to acknowledge but I accept it as true and caused her great suffering and neglect.

I mean, I hope you accepted this narrative as true because it was true. I hope you've not been agreeing for years that you were emotionally abusive just to appease her. If there has been truth behind this claim, being one of the few to actually seek treatment and complete a program would be brilliant. If DB is all about making 180s to improve our lives, this would be one heck of a change to follow-through on!

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
I do accept that many of my behaviours have been coercive, controlling, neglectful and very damaging and regardless of my intentions abusive to my wife.

I do struggle with accepting that my issues with intimacy with her were all due to me withholding to control her.
That doesn't minimise the harm done.
But at some point I want to make that clear or discuss it.

I'm completely open to addressing this in any way possible.

I would be lying if I said some part of me didn't want to demonstrate a desire to change to my wife , as of now I still hold out hope of reconciliation in the future.

But it is equally about wanting to be a better man, building self esteem and confidence and losing the fear and emotional dependency that has underpinned my life to date.

This is for me, my kids and any future relationship


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
So just received message from wife

Her: kids have said they want to wake up Xmas morning here, Its your week so you will see them Xmas eve day and I will pick them up Xmas eve day and drop them at yours Xmas day for lunch.
I would also like to see them boxing day for a walk.

I think that would be best so they can open presents at both houses.
I would also like to go out new years eve, but it's my week with kids if you had plans?
We can check with each other re presents so we don't double up

Gave it 10mins
Me: if I can have some time to think about it all, and best way to do all this
Re: presents, Yes, we can do the same as s12 birthday.

Her: I Don't want to eat either at mine or yours, kids don't care about lunch.
I don't want to spend Xmas with you and won't change my mind.

Me: I understand you don't want to spend Christmas with me , it's about time spent with them.

5min pause

Her: you are getting to see them more than me over Christmas as it's your week, if they want to be with you that's fine,
I'll have them for lunch, whatever they want I'm fine with.

Me: and me, just want to ensure it's fair on everyone

Her: half and half is fair. I'm just trying to organise everything.

Haven't replied yet, this is tough, on the one hand I feel she is dictating
On the other I don't know how to handle this 1st Xmas, one of us is going to miss out on kids going to sleep Xmas eve and waking up Xmas morning.

The kids come 1st, but they have been changing their minds depending on whom they are with.

If I suggest she has them am I being the bigger man or placating.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Do I actually say to her I know how hard this all is and appreciate you trying to organise?


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
First, don't believe for a second that the kids said what she says they said. At best she probably led them. "Wouldn't you guys like to wake up here Christmas morning?" Are they supposed to say no.

"I've thought about it, and I believe we should stick to the weeks as they are. After they open gifts here, you can pick them up for a few hours to spend with them on Christmas day. Same with Boxing day. As far as NYE, I have plans, but if I get a chance to spend it with my kids I'll prioritize them over my plans. What time will you be dropping then off NYE? And what time will you be picking them up NY day?"

This is probably too wordy, but the message is twofold. "Tough. This is the way this stuff works." and "You're asking for changes to the schedule so you have to do the legwork and get what I allow."

That's my advice.

Last edited by Steve85; 11/21/19 04:54 PM.

M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
If I suggest she has them am I being the bigger man or placating.

Hi JDevast, you seem to have replied again before figuring out what you want, within 10 minutes of her sending you a proposal she seems to have put thought into. For comparison--

I averaged 1hr, 23 minutes to respond to texts from the woman I love. (I answered calls.)
I averaged 1-2 days to respond to my ex-wife this past week.

Originally Posted by JDevast
Me: if I can have some time to think about it all, and best way to do all this

"If"?! Are you really asking IF you can have time to think about it?

Option #1 - It's a text. Think about it, then reply.
Option #2 - "I'll think about it and get back to you by Friday."

Originally Posted by JDevast
Her: I Don't want to eat either at mine or yours, kids don't care about lunch.
I don't want to spend Xmas with you and won't change my mind.

Me: I understand you don't want to spend Christmas with me

This is a good response. You showed you were listening.

Originally Posted by JDevast
, it's about time spent with them.

It's not clear what your point is. Are you trying to persuade her to go to lunch "for the kids"?

Originally Posted by JDevast
Me: and me, just want to ensure it's fair on everyone

Again, it's not clear what your point is. There are a zillion different ways to measure fairness.

Originally Posted by JDevast
The kids come 1st, but they have been changing their minds depending on whom they are with.

The kids' enjoyment of Xmas will likely not be markedly affected by which parent negotiates a better deal.

Originally Posted by JDevast
If I suggest she has them am I being the bigger man or placating.

Easy--placating. You didn't successfully negotiate the better holiday time-slot and then offer it to her anyway, she again dictated to you that she will be taking the better holiday time-slot.

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Do I actually say to her I know how hard this all is and appreciate you trying to organise?

No! a. She didn't say dictating these terms to you was hard for her--are you projecting? She has to express something for you to listen/validate. She did express she didn't want to spend Christmas with you and you did a good job showing you heard her. b. Why would you tell her you appreciate her "trying to organize" (dictating custody to you)--do you actually enjoy this behavior and want it to continue?

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks guys,
Yes I'm emotionally spiralling, Xmas is huge emotionally.

Just to confirm I wasn't angling for lunch together, trying to say it's about time spent with kids,

My concern is that any time I say no to her or try and be assertive she accuses or perceives that I am being controlling.

Urge to say " every time I don't do exactly what you want, you feel I am being controlling"

So end of the day, they are scheduled to be with me over Christmas and will negotiate how she can see them Christmas day.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Originally Posted by JDevast
Urge to say " every time I don't do exactly what you want, you feel I am being controlling"

You control you. She controls her. If that's how she wants to behave, she's free to. Telling her you wish she behaved differently would only make sense if she'd expressed an interest in altering her behavior for you--which tends to happen if/when you reconcile. If you're annoyed by her, tell us, tell your IC, tell your friends. Sharing that she annoys you is unlikely to resurrect your relationship or improve your co-parenting.

Originally Posted by JDevast
My concern is that any time I say no to her or try and be assertive she accuses or perceives that I am being controlling.

When my partner and I were on the rocks, I found the clearer and less "mushy" our boundaries, the faster claims about controlling each other vanished. If she said, "I want to walk faster, you're controlling how fast *WE* walk," walking 15% faster when she wanted to walk 30% faster still left her annoyed. What helped in the long run (if not in the moment) was not speeding up and clarifying that "I'm controlling how fast *I* walk. *YOU* are free to walk faster or slower." Asserting your right to make your own decisions = not controlling. Telling others to behave differently = controlling. Once she recognized this, she appreciated my speeding up 15%.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
The less you say the better. So no, don't say that.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
So just received message from wife

Her: kids have said they want to wake up Xmas morning here


Steve and CW gave you great advise.


I would use this to get your holiday exceptions in place. I would switch the communication from Txt to Email.


Draft up email here. Get feedback from us. Draft up next draft...repeat until you have the final version. Sit on it for a day. Send her the email. Text her "Sent you an email"




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Ok so first draft

Re: your proposals for Christmas
I've had some time to think about it and as kids are scheduled to be with me that week I feel it is better that we keep to that arrangement with the children sleeping at mine but with the exception that they see you on Christmas eve, Christmas lunch and a walk on boxing day.

That way they get to see both of us and can open presents at both.
I think we should also share details of any Christmas activities that we would like to take them to while they are off school and we can agree which activities we will go to.

Re: your request for New year's, I do have plans and would like to keep my invite
I'm aware that you had also entered into the cosi app dates for the 15th and 16th of December?
If your plans stand on those days I am happy to have the kids then.

We can then ensure the schedule alternates for next year.

Regards
J

(While I'm writing this draft I get another request via the co parenting app for New year's.
Its clear to me her GALavanting and going out comes as a priority)

Welcome all and advice or input, finding it quite a struggle to just be assertive and hold my ground
(Maybe to be seen as a 180 for me lol)


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Help me understand:
What is your current parenting agreement?

Example: Is it this week with her, next week with you? When and how to you exchange the kids?

Also, how did you split thanksgiving?




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
JD, it really irks me the way your W tries to control and manipulate you! She comes at you making demands and trying to convince you the kids are on board with her plans, it's just aggravating. You are certainly not obligated to stray from the separation agreement, I would flat-out tell her that she is being disrespectful towards you and if she wants to negotiate visitation with the kids during your time that she needs to approach you in a more respectful manner or you would prefer to leave everything as-is. She's being ridiculous and it's time to put her in her place.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
So the current agreement agreed between us (that she proposed btw) is a week with her, a week with me, exchange happens on Friday at school pick up.
No thanksgiving in the UK.

Worth mentioning I sent a co parenting plan proposal over a week ago, with no response other than she needs to get advice. She proposed a co parenting schedule app where we can put in kids appointments etc and request exceptions.

She has dictated every move so far, has always been the driver in big decisions and I have been passive and placated her. Obviously this led to passive aggressive behaviour on my part. Her losing respect, becoming more dominant and accusing me of being controlling whenever she didn't get her way.

It's incredibly frustrating, I do love her deeply. But yeah crazy making

I fully expect any attempt on my part to be assertive or maintain some self respect to be met with a tornado spewed at me.

Any thoughts on wording of the draft?


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
JD,

I agree with AS. There is a balance on doing what is right for your kids and dealing with W.

As far as your draft. Way too many words.Try to simplify it now.

Also address future years.

"This year, BLABLABLA" "Next year, the reverse will occur"



I would focus hard on making as little exceptions as possible and make them as simple as possible. The less exchanges the better.

Focus on these now:
One parent gets Xmas-eve,the other gets xmas day
One parent gets boxing day, One parent gets NYE

Deal with these later:
One parent gets thanksgiving day the other gets Friday
One parent gets Halloween the other gets a different holiday
Birthdays


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
"I think we should also share details of any Christmas activities that we would like to take them to" is problematic--you shouldn't (lol) be telling her what she should do. wink You control you, she controls her. If you feel like sharing a couple of the Christmas activities you're taking them to, you're free to do so.

I also agree with shorter and simpler. My holiday agreement for the whole year takes 1/3rd page.

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
So the current agreement agreed between us (that she proposed btw) is a week with her, a week with me, exchange happens on Friday at school pick up.
Same as me. Summers we have exchange time at 6p. We have a drop off agreement. IE whoever has the kids is responsible for dropping them off at the other parents house at the exchange time. Works great. No waiting around at the exes house because the kids are not ready.


Quote
She proposed a co parenting schedule app where we can put in kids appointments etc and request exceptions.
I would strongly consider that. One drawback Is X may try to schedule activities on "Your time". All my exceptions are done via email. X and I have separate scheduling apps.




Quote
I fully expect any attempt on my part to be assertive or maintain some self respect to be met with a tornado spewed at me.
Let her spew. That is where AS gave you great advise.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283

Things do start getting confusing. Normally around thanksgiving, I have to clarify like this:

This is my understanding of this years exceptions:

20th 6pm. Normal exchange.
23rd 6pm I drop the kids off at your house. They spend XMAS-even with you.
24th 6pm You drop kids off at my house. They spend Xmas day with me.
25th 6pm I drop kids off at your house. They spend boxing day with you.
26th 6pm You drop kids off
27th 6pm. normal exchange.


Try to nail down a specific exchange time. Try to minimize # of exchanges.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks for the input.
Should I keep opening sentence as is, want to make it clear


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
We all have different styles. When dealing with my X, I focus on making it concise.
Originally Posted by Jdevast

Re: your proposals for Christmas


I've had some time to think about it and as kids are scheduled to be with me that week


Subject: Holidays


Hi W,

I believe it is important that the kids spend equal time with each of us during the holidays. I also feel it is best if we alternate each year.

Here is what I propose:

You spend Xmas eve with the kids. I drop them off the night before at 6pm. You drop them back at my house 6pm.
I spend Xmas day with the kids.
We can split Boxing day in half. They spend the morning with me and I drop them at your house at 1pm and they spend the evening with you. You drop them back at my house at 6pm.

As far as NYE, you drop the kids off at my house at 6pm and I will drop them back at your house at 6pm nYday.



Does that work for you? If not, let me know your thoughts.

If I don't hear back from you by (give her two days to responds), I will plan on following the normal parenting schedule.

Regards
J




"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks r2c

I'll draft something tmrw and post with a view to sending Sat.

Going through a gamut of emotions, know I control me she controls her.
Just finding this tough to even be assertive through fear of conflict.

Know at the same time if I'd been more confident and assertive, less emotionally dependent we wouldn't be here.

Some level of acceptance happening, she was unhappy, grass was greener, she has to walk her own path.

Hurts but I have to lighthouse it.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Going through a gamut of emotions
Some of this triggers my emotions (10 years later). Much easier for us to give logical ideas because we are not tied to it emotionally.

I channel my anger into productive actions.


This was one of the better tools I used to get W to at least respond:
If I don't hear back from you by (give her two days to responds), I will plan on following the normal parenting schedule.

I had to negotiate a mothers day father day agreement. Boundaries work.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Originally Posted by JDevast
Just finding this tough to even be assertive through fear of conflict.

"Good fences make good neighbors." Asserting your boundaries, and respecting hers, is the potential way out of this recurring conflict. The murkier the borders, the more conflict you're both in for.

Building the wall in the first place, of course, is unpleasant.

[Side note--Robert Frost's "Mending Wall" is credited with this line, but his poem actually disagrees with the concept--at least when neighbors have no basis for potential dispute, the walls simply separate us.]

I love Ready2Change's line in the sand, and that it's at the end after a reasonable proposal instead of the beginning: "If I don't hear back from you by (give her two days to responds), I will plan on following the normal parenting schedule." That you already have an agreed-upon schedule, that gives you the whole week, and you both need to approve exceptions is a strong position and should allow you room to negotiate a deal for this year and future years that gives you both access to the kids without too many exchanges.

In my custody agreement, one of us has Xmas Eve and Morning, the other has Xmas Day and the week after for a winter vacation. A single exchange, and both get to enjoy holiday magic with the kids!

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
2nd draft

Re: Christmas

As the kids are scheduled with me Christmas week I propose the following changes

Christmas eve: spend 1-6 with you returning to me for the evening

Christmas day: with me until pick up to go to yours for lunch 1pm and stay night

Boxing day: return to mine 1pm

With the reverse happening next year

With regard to NYE , I do have plans and would like to keep my invitation

There are 2 more dates you have entered in the cosi app for 15th and 16th December, if your plans still stand I am happy to have the kids on those dates.

Does this work for you?

Regards
J


Is that any better?

Today's seemed really tough emotionally, a lot of work related messages from her more than 30 through the day
And all generally friendly while being focused on work, I've stayed brief and positive in responses

Then I attended first counselling session this afternoon, I just offloaded everything but felt good to get everything off my chest, will see how it goes but felt emotionally raw afterwards.

Returned to work and messages start up again about kids prior to exchange for them to come to mine.
Pick my daughter up from school and go food shopping with agreement I would message when home so wife could drop son and their belongings off.
I'm maybe 20mins longer than I planned, stream of messages and 3 missed calls asking if everything is ok?

I ignored and messaged when I got back as planned.
Then when she drops off it's back to no eye contact and her being on edge again, not wanting to enter flat until I say it's ok to go say bye to d6.
She leaves, within 30 mins there's friendlyish messages and thumbs up emojis about some play dates and a few forgotton items.

Almost overly friendly and accommodating, know she will be going out and hitting the town tonight and tmrw.
Just usual uncertainty and rollercoaster, reacting to stuff outside my control and trying to make sense of things that are senseless.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
2nd draft

Re: Christmas

As the kids are scheduled with me Christmas week
I propose the following changes

Christmas eve: spend 1-6 with you returning to me for the evening

Christmas day: with me until pick up to go to yours for lunch 1pm and stay night

Boxing day: return to mine 1pm

With the reverse happening next year

With regard to NYE , I do have plans and would like to keep my invitation

There are 2 more dates you have entered in the cosi app for 15th and 16th December, if your plans still stand I am happy to have the kids on those dates.

Does this work for you?

Regards
J



I believe the strike outs are un-needed. Focus on the exact times so there is no confusion.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
I like Ready2Change's re-wording. Much clearer.

This may be a bit controversial, but I'd be hesitant to offer her the kids 1-6pm on Christmas Eve. If she decided to break the deal and keep them, it'd wreck his holiday. I don't like to put myself into vulnerable positions when dealing with aggressive people. I'd be more willing to offer her earlier access e.g., she gets them from 10am Xmas and returns them at 2pm the next day.

PS - Kids are usually not opposed to waking early than usual on Christmas. wink

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks for the input
I'm planning on sending this either this evening or tomorrow

I'm second guessing the timing, as I know she will be going out with friends tonight, there is a big night at an after hours club locally , she will definitely be going and it will be hedonistic ,

So I'm mindful of sending before she goes out , receiving advice from her new friends and then GALavanting (happy drugs included and opportunities for hook ups with other men.

Or to wait until things are quieter tomorrow.

Can't control the outcome either way but do feel the timing has some importance.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
So it's 8.30 pm, think it's best to wait until tmrw


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Struggling this morning,

Some anxiety around sending email response to her proposals for Xmas, definite fear of conflict and of pushing her further away. Afraid of being accused of being controlling and balancing this with the knowledge she has no respect or love towards me any more.

Spent long hours inside my head last night replaying the past, every missed opportunity that may have made her feel more loved in the relationship.

This is mixed in with despair and compare thoughts, knowing she had a big night out, fantasizing about how much fun she would have had, how she's so naturally social, always laughing when out and of course the self destructive fantasies that she is flirting and hooking up with other men.

Getting this out here rather than sitting in my head.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Sent the Xmas response

Immediate response via whatsapp
Her: if that's what the kids want then fine, New year's fine and 15/16th not needed now.

2nd message 2 mins later:
Her: I don't think it's fair I only see them for a few hours on Christmas eve though.

She's seeing them 5 hours 1pm til 6pm.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 13
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 13
Hey J,

Sorry to hear about all the despair you’ve been dealing with lately. I don’t have any specific advice regarding the parenting plan etc but one thing I want to mention is that I can feel your desperation when I read your posts. When I was in the thick of my previous BD’s, my predominate emotion was fear and despair. I was so codependent on my W that when she left, I didn’t even know who I was as an individual. I felt like I needed her like I need air.

I’m curious if you can relate to some of things I just described. Because for me, once I started truly understanding what I was feeling/fearing and how that was driving my fear and abandonment issues, that’s when I started to realize I was going to be ok with or without W.

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
I fully relate

Even at times when I was resentful or angry she was my air and the centre of my life, my thoughts, my emotions
I am very prone to fear based thinking and emotional dependency.

Those fears of rejection and abandonment have ironically caused rejection and abandonment.

I'm working on it, but early days and seemingly a long journey.

This stance on Christmas feels like a first step to some assertiveness, whether that translates to any respect who knows.

I know she will be hurtling about this, and Christmas eve and morning will hit her hard, I want to reach out but know I cannot.

Most likely response will be directing anger towards me, either to her friends or directly towards me.
Fully expect this to be translated as further evidence of what a controlling monster I am.

But that's out of my hands


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
...
Her: if that's what the kids want then fine, New year's fine and 15/16th not needed now.

....
Her: I don't think it's fair I only see them for a few hours on Christmas eve though.

She has exact same communication style as my X.


Do not respond to these.

If there is a pattern in her message, you can address that it in the future:
IE:" It is not what the kids what, it is what WE believe is best for the kids." OR "what we have agreed is best for the kids" Something like that


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Some anxiety around sending email response to her proposals for Xmas, definite fear of conflict and of pushing her further away. Afraid of being accused of being controlling and balancing this with the knowledge she has no respect or love towards me any more.


Did any of this happen?? Reflect back on all the unneeded fear.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Nothing's come back yet, still expecting it to come at some point.

Maybe that's the fear, feel that I'm driving a wedge between us or confirming her hate towards me.

At the same time, being nice and placating didn't appear to be having any effect.

The silence is pretty bad tho, and going to have to interact in some way at d6's parents assembly.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Jealousy has kicked in
Instagram video from the nightclubs feed posted this morning
And there she is, in the middle of the dance floor, laughing and dancing, guy talking in her ear.

Know it's stupid, just triggers a lot of emotions


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Some anxiety around sending email response to her proposals for Xmas, definite fear of conflict and of pushing her further away.


My GF is like this, she's afraid to say things to me on the off chance it might make me angry (this comes from a toxic relationship she was in previously), so she just says nothing. The result is that it's very difficult to communicate with her because everything is very one sided. As the recipient of this kind of treatment, let me assure you that giving a specific response is FAR better than just saying nothing or saying "whatever you want". She may not agree with your plans but she will respect you for at least being informative and specific. Your fear is probably NGS kicking in, but you are doing the right thing!

Quote
Afraid of being accused of being controlling and balancing this with the knowledge she has no respect or love towards me any more.


Just remember she's a WAS, she will say hurtful things that aren't at all true. You are standing up for yourself, that will earn you her respect even if she doesn't act like it. And remember sometimes silence is the best response. If she sends a nastygram about how "controlling" you are, then don't reply. That'll take the wind right out of her sails because a controlling person would engage rather than ignore.

Quote
Her: if that's what the kids want then fine, New year's fine and 15/16th not needed now.


Like R2C said, don't respond to this crap. What the kids want? Give me a break! What the kids want is loving parents living under the same roof as them! If she gave a rat's butt about what the kids want then she wouldn't be pursuing this life of COMPLETE AND TOTAL SELFISHNESS!

Quote
Her: I don't think it's fair I only see them for a few hours on Christmas eve though.

She's seeing them 5 hours 1pm til 6pm.


Don't respond to this either. She's not proposing an alternative, just complaining. Welcome to separation, you don't get everything you want anymore.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Jealousy has kicked in
Instagram video from the nightclubs feed posted this morning
And there she is, in the middle of the dance floor, laughing and dancing, guy talking in her ear.

Know it's stupid, just triggers a lot of emotions


Some day you'll be detached from her and able to look at stuff like that and think "wow, look at this middle-aged married woman with children behaving like some ridiculous girls-gone-wild college student, how sad and pathetic". Because that is exactly what it is.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 13
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,799
Likes: 13
I totally agree with, AS.

A middle aged woman with kids, getting hammered in night clubs and acting like she's 21 is a huge turn off to me. No thanks..

Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Not unusual where we live, huge creative arts/fashion crowd relocated from London, most are 10yrs younger tho, and the ones our age do have kids and aren't out and about.

She's always been on scenes and the last to leave a party.

So, attended d6's parents assembly today. Man is she p#ssed, never had the cold shoulder to that degree before.
Made a point of completely avoiding me outside, made sure she sat on other side of the hall.

Zero pleasantries, i said hi and bye , could see the anger in her face.

All smiles for d6 then back to standing 20ft away while waiting for daughter, texting furiously.

Nothing further about Xmas, something's building tho, expect she will get as much advice and support as she can and come back in some way.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks As and Thornton for the objective perspective,
I'm in so deep it's near impossible to stand back sometimes


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Not unusual where we live, huge creative arts/fashion crowd relocated from London, most are 10yrs younger tho, and the ones our age do have kids and aren't out and about.

She's always been on scenes and the last to leave a party.





STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR HER.

I don't care what culture or area of the world, etc you live. A middle-age woman married mother acting like a single, teenager without any responsibilities is frowned upon. And there are lots of colloquialisms that describe a woman like that.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Thanks As and Thornton for the objective perspective,
I'm in so deep it's near impossible to stand back sometimes


P.S. Glad that you recognize this.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 9,227
Likes: 309
I think you need to take it easy with the judgements Steve.

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by LH19
I think you need to take it easy with the judgements Steve.


Maybe! Thanks LH. Just know what it is like to be in denial and make excuses for my own, and my W's behavior.

Didn't mean to judge as much as to point out the truth in what AS was saying.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Instagram video from the nightclubs feed posted this morning
Why are you watching this carp??
If you have time for Social Media, you have time for something better. Unplug and start working toward one of your goals.


I really don't know how people learn to swim without actually getting in the water and practicing. And I am really not talking about swimming. How do you become attractive to woman? Do some research and practice. Hold your boundaries.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Social media will be your downfall, Jde. Listen to R2C. Consider deleting all of your SM accounts.

I live SM free and do not even miss it!


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by Steve85
I live SM free and do not even miss it!
I have two FB accounts. The one with my real name and IRL people, I have one or two person out of each of my social circles as FB friends just in case I ever REALLY need to get a hold of someone. I may log into them every few months. It may be the most boring FB page. Mostly pictures of food. I let my woman post couple photos of us.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 9,822
Likes: 226
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by Steve85
I live SM free and do not even miss it!
I have two FB accounts. The one with my real name and IRL people, I have one or two person out of each of my social circles as FB friends just in case I ever REALLY need to get a hold of someone. I may log into them every few months. It may be the most boring FB page. Mostly pictures of food. I let my woman post couple photos of us.


Not hijacking but Jde needs to start a new thread anyway. But there was one poster here, I forget who it was, but last Dec. when I was really considering walking away myself, they kept wanting me to get a Facebook account so that we talk off the forum. LOL I kept telling them that I was morally and ethically opposed to SM to the point where I wouldn't even create an account for that purpose.


M(53), W(54),D(19)
M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017
Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 71
Hi JDevast,

Good job holding the line on equal Xmas custody! I enjoy seeing the transition from actions based on fear to actions based on bravery in these situations. Keep it up.

Consider dropping stalking her on social media. I often choose to unfollow rather than unfriendly people if I don’t want to see what they’re up to but don’t want to make a point about not being their friend. I don’t think any good will come from stalking your ex online.

FWIW, I have no problem with someone being on the dance floor at any age if it makes them happy and they aren’t breaking any commitments.

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,309
Likes: 283
Originally Posted by CWarrior
I enjoy seeing the transition from actions based on fear to actions based on bravery in these situations. Keep it up.
The sooner this transition the better. Make this transition in all areas of your life. You will not regret it.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
J
Jdevast Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
J
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks guys,
She blocked me on Instagram and fb some time ago, this just happened to come up on my feed, posted by the people who run the club.

Just purchased NMMNG and will get some reading in tonight after I've put the kids to bed.

Seeing counsellor tmrw for 2nd session, then focusing on the Xmas rush for work.


Bd August 2019 after 16years
S 12
D 6
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Steve85
I kept telling them that I was morally and ethically opposed to SM to the point where I wouldn't even create an account for that purpose.


I do not blame you one bit! I don't use FB much, I'm on IG a lot more because I like to share my sculpting and see what art and sculpture others are working on. I avoid following all those "feel good" accounts where people post all the fake junk about how perfect their life is. The sad thing is others buy into the illusion and think that they are failures because everyone they follow has such an "amazing" life. I will see people I know personally that are struggling with really tough personal issues post a picture of themselves sucking in their gut and holding a drink next to a pool with a "Just loving life!" type of quote. SM is the land of smoke and mirrors, LOL!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,295
Likes: 112


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Page 1 of 10 1 2 3 9 10

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard