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Originally Posted by Mike85
I've lived my teenage and adult life in a way that adheres to the concepts of honor, integrity, and the sanctity of a person's oath. It's easy to follow that code when things aren't going well and the world, your friends, and family support you. Following that code when you've been betrayed and, in the eyes of the world, "have every right" to lash out is the hard part. The path that I -and many of us- have chosen is difficult, painful, lonely, and invites the ridicule of others.

I will stand for and fight for (DB-style) my marriage, behaving in a way that will allow me to look my kids in the eye, myself in the mirror, and at my God and honestly state that I did ALL that I humanly could to save my marriage and my family.

Yes, I, through my well-off, very protective, and very connected parents, have the resources to hire a barracuda and get full custody of my sons and keep 100% of my cash. But what would that teach my sons (other than not to screw with Dad, Grandma, or Grandpa...)? And yes, being a not-unattractive, intelligent, interesting guy living in a college town could almost guarantee that I could "get me some," but once again, what the hell would it teach my sons? I'm better than that. Vengeance in the name of "protecting myself" and/or bed-hopping to satisfy my urges is beneath anyone with a functioning moral compass.


Mike85:
Me: 47
Kids: 2 boys, 14 & 8
Bomb: 5/5/08
Married: 16 years, together 20
Divorce final 8/11/10
I remarried, to an amazing woman: 3/17/12...
"Once in awhile, in an ordinary life, love gives us a fairy tale"


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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"If you stay in your head, you're dead." It essentially means know when to leave all of your analytical BS at the door and let your training and discipline work instead of over thinking everything and distracting..... You need to make "training" as realistic as possible. So when you're reading or whatever, try to visualize realistically because your brain can't really discern whether we're actually doing something or just visualizing. Build good mental visualization habits.


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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This is great stuff right here:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2872011#Post2872011

Originally Posted by joejoe1
It's been on my heart to write this. I have read over this multiple times.

I'm a LBS or rather was a LBS. And when I got the BD I was doing all the wrong things. I ran around my city looking for answers. Asking every person I saw that I trusted what should I do.

I searched the internet exhaustively, looking for support and answers and I finally came across this life saving forum.

Were all my answers here, No. But a lot of the support I needed was, because of the life altering events that we were all living thru. I lived to read a post from Vets, helping me wade my way thru my sitch. Their responses brought me comfort and hope. I continued to read as much as I could about marriages in destruction and the same things came up just in different terms. Allow no disrespect, don't beg, plead, or show weakness, don't pursue, be patient and give space. These are the themes and pillars of a LBS. Out all of the pillars, respect carries love into eternity.

Can a person truly pay respect if they don't have any?

Respect cost, does a person with no respect for another truly love another. IMO, NO! Respect is not something that is just handed over freely, it's earned. It's action oriented. If a person is disrespected and the person who does the disrespecting is not confronted then respect is lost.

In order for a person to once again begin to love they must first begin to respect. In order for another person to respect another, that other person must respect themselves first. The longer the disrespect continues, the more the respect currency is lost.

But, in order to gain respect, it only takes one brave act, one act to show that disrespect won't be allowed. That act doesn't care what the reaction of the person doing the disrespecting is going to do. The only thing that matters is that the disrespecting stops. Once the disrespect is stopped, there are only two options, to respect or to distance ones self. But guess what, the distance option is a form of respect as well.

When faced with disrespect the right decision to be made, is first am I being used/disrespected. Why am I saying No or Yes. Am I saying "NO" to be mean or am I saying no because it's not conducive for me at the moment. Am I saying "Yes" because I think it will get my Spouse back or am I saying "Yes" because it's actually the right thing to do?

See, respect has nothing to do with being mean or nice. Has nothing to do with hurting another. It's all about a person, not crossing the clearly stated boundaries you have set. Respect is one person acknowledging that they won't cross your LINE, because they understand you won't TOLERATE them if they do.

Most LBS allow line crossing/disrespect because we don't want our WW/WS to leave us, but the irony/rub is the more/longer they line cross the further away they go. If you want them to ever come back and STAY, STAY is the key word, Respect must be there. The more respect they have the less likely they are going to leave.

So the first steps in winning a Spouse back, is stopping all the actions that show lack of respect and love for oneself (begging, crying, pursuing). Next start loving and respecting yourself. Next GAL, 180s, and detaching (not to escape, but too heal). Lastly allow no other to disrespect you and for all those that do, show them with action what doing so entails.

The purpose of DB or hope for a WW isn’t ruining their life, it’s leaving them alone and letting them see you grow and become stronger. It's Karma job to teach lessons, it's a LBS job to heal themselves.

JJ1



Also R2C, thanks for your diligence in keeping these quotes going, I don't read every post in every thread so miss a lot of the jewels of wisdom you re-post here!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Also R2C, thanks for your diligence in keeping these quotes going, I don't read every post in every thread so miss a lot of the jewels of wisdom you re-post here!
My pleasure. Glad you are finding some too and helping out....


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Originally Posted by Gekko


So I am going through a D, and with a PMA things are better than they have been in a long time. It's not pump-myself-up BS. I am a better Dad, better son, brother, friend and person today than I was when the M was banging up on the rocks week after week. You know how you can go outside in the sun after a rainstorm and everything looks clearer, more focused, more vibrant? That is my view these days. No, life is not all sunshine and rainbows, but so what, it's still pretty great to be alive. The possibilities of what the day holds, or the week, or next year, are really endless. It's exciting. There is zero chance that a R that went bad is going to derail my train, there is just no way. I have too much to be thankful for and too much to look forward to. Big cheesy smile on my face now...





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You need to develop one (a plan). You need goals for yourself. You need a master plan that does not involve her. Get a life.
Originally Posted by hoosjim


Just to make sure this ^^^ does not slip through the cracks. THIS IS SO SO SO SO crucial. Establishing goals is a key component of DB-ing, both for your own health/sanity/personal development and, later, if it comes, for rebuilding the MR. The DB-ing books tell you this, the DB coaches will tell you this (if you engage with one), and your MC (If you eventually make it to MC and have a good, goals-based therapist, if not, RUN to find one that does) will tell you this. YOU MUST HAVE GOALS/OBJECTIVES/PLANS for yourself and, if in a committed (especially marital) relationship, for that relationship. Failure to have such goals/dreams, both for yourself and for your MR, is quite often one of the reasons the relationship dies. You need to have something to look forward to and work towards... else you stagnate.

You can start small, you don't have to have grandiose goals like "save the world." Start small, and achievable. Then you can add more challenging goals, but always have something ahead of you that you know you can achieve, though it may take work/effort. There is some mental illness history in my family, including depression, and one of the paradigms for attacking depression is "do the next thing". The idea is that, no matter how down, depressed, blue, or hopeless you feel, you keep moving forward. Find one thing that needs to be done, or establish one modest goal for yourself, AND THEN DO IT. Then do the next. Rinse. Repeat.

But you gotta have a plan. We're men. Men always have a plan. "Day to day" don't cut it.


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Originally Posted by CWarrior


I had a rather straight-forward divorce--I wanted out a.s.a.p. so it took 30 days to get terms defined and I didn't spend much time talking.

Me: "Here's a proposed childcare plan I downloaded from the Internet. I didn't change anything from the boilerplate. It covers everything from sick days to vacations to phone calls at each others' home. I picked a 5/2/2/5 because that's what child psychologists recommend for ages x and y. They also talk about week on/off and alternate days, but there's some shortcomings. It looks good but you're welcome to find your own plan. Her: "Okay, let me look over it." Me: "It's a weekend later. Any thoughts?" Her: "What does X mean?" Me: "I think X means Y. Think we should clarify it?" Her: Okay, sounds okay. I'd like <change> <change> <change>" Me: <Stews a bit>. "Agreed."

Item splits, we did a personal auction a week before I moved out of the place.

Financial splits were mostly straightforward--50/50. We did that the day we signed our agreement. The initial filing including restraining order to limit any hocus pocus with the kids or shared funds. That's why my discussions STARTED with her being served divorce papers. Service provided protections for everyone.


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Originally Posted by Starsky309
This is a much-needed and often-overlooked discussion.

People need to get off their high-horse about "game-playing," as much of DBing is based -- let's be honest here -- on reading, learning and then doing specific techniques that are designed to re-attract wayward or walkaway spouses. Are "180s" not game-playing, if the new, 180-degree oppositive behavior isn't something that is authentic to our usual selves?

That's just one example.

I don't advocate dating while married, at least not while actively trying to reconcile and CERTAINLY not without being honest with each other as to what rules are in place during that stage of your separation. But to NOT be willing to study -- and openly discuss and debate -- the basic laws of human attraction is to (in my opinion) remove 3 bullets from your gun before you even start.

It's a basic dynamic of human attraction that neediness is NOT attractive, and yet people want what they perceive they CAN'T have.

There are ways to build this understanding into appropriate DBing, and it can put your efforts on a much faster track to possible success.

Anyone trying to DB a spouse actively engaged in an affair would be wise to Google "PEA brain chemicals endorphines love lust infidelity", and do a little research. PEAs are HIGHLY addictive, and even show up on CAT scans! It is the drug that makes an otherwise sane, intelligent adult woman -- an astronaut no less! -- drive across country WEARING AN ADULT DIAPER (so she doesn't have to take bathroom stops), to avenge the loss of her man to another woman.

It's what makes an otherwise intelligent, successful man risk his entire family and career over a fling with a woman half his age.

Food for thought.


Starsky


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Originally Posted by 2ndtimearoundCA
I was having a conversation with my w about separating our stuff. There was a piece of furniture that we both wanted. I let her have that piece of furniture. To me it wasn't worth arguing over. I didn't actually say much to her during that conversation but she got very upset at one point. Since I didn't say much, I asked her what had made her so upset. She told me that it was how I was communicating with her; my nonverbal language. Since then I have made a point to be more self aware of my body language, choice of words, and speech patterns. Back then she didn't want to be in the same room with me. I realized that I needed to work on my ability to communicate especially when I was having a disagreement with someone. This endeavor became a 180 for me. The path led me to learning about the psychology of human attraction and charisma. That is the point of this thread.


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Originally Posted by 2ndtimearoundCA
It seems like many of us find ourselves using the LRT. We are separated and making the most of our interactions. We back off; we GAL we do our 180s; we sit back and watch what happens. We assess what happens and we make adjustments.
Here are the guidelines per DR for when our wayward spouse becomes curious or reaches out:

· Be loving in return, but not overly excited or enthusiastic.
· Accept some invitations to spend time together, but not all.
· Do not ask any questions about your future together.
· Be vague when asked questions about the changes in you. Say that you are just thinking things through.
· Continue to be upbeat.
· Do not say “I love you.”
· Resist getting into conversations about your marriage.
· Beat your spouse to the punch when it comes time to leave or separate from each other at the end of an activity. You set the tone for going your separate ways.

Here are a few things that I have found worked for me in the past and I am going to implement them again.

· When talking on the phone, end the conversation first
· When texting, end the conversation first. If you have been going back and forth in a text exchange say “got to run to a meeting” (or something like that) as your last text.

o I read somewhere that you want to leave your love interest wanting more. When I first started dating my W, I had younger kids and would end chatting conversations to tend to them. She told me that it drove her nuts because she was never ready for the conversation to end. If you are naturally busy, then you will naturally do this. But if you have a lot of time on your hands you need to fake it.

· Mirror your text responses in length and take at least as long to respond as your wayward spouse.
· Look fantastic when you see your WAS, but don’t look like you’re trying too hard.
· Be relaxed and cool

Please add to the list above.

Keep doing what works, and stop doing what doesn’t.

My personal solution oriented goal is to spend more in person time with my w (once a week would feel like progress) and avoid a just-friends situation (interactions are flirty and not just emotional support).


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
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