I've been through all that you say (including getting blown off on my birthday and father's day) so trust me when I tell you this...you will be fine and there is life and love after this chapter you are going through now ends. You are simply moving through at your own pace and process the space between chapters.
One thing I would share with you that helped me was "stop grieving over what you lost and start living on what you've got left. You can make it on broken pieces."
a lot of the people who reconcile here don't stick around. The people needing help do.
I'm glad you're out of the corporate world. I couldn't do it, especially in the big city where you are.
I never cared about doing anything for my birthday until my birthday when my W was gone. I know how that feels Steve. She still cares or she would be 1000 miles away by now.
Nobody knows where your sitch is going, not you, not your W, not us.
Face your fears the best way you know how. Ultimately, you will overcome those fears. You're a smart guy, you know women want what you have to offer, you know there are more out there, you know you can do this again if you have to.
I think your GAL needs to involve some social events. Are you dressing well when you go out? Smiling, having fun, talking to all women? I think an ego boost from women might just help assuage your fears. It changed my mindset drastically last August.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
So things have been marginally better this week - we're still mostly talking about logistical issues, but she's been as friendly as she's always been, and we've thrown in some back and forth jokes just like old times. Nothing big, but it's been nice.
I've been diligent on my 180s in the logistics (she often complained that she shouldered all of the emotional labor and management tasks around the house), so I've taken on the tasks of organizing our budget, updating our rental insurance, and so on. So now we're in the spot where she's visibly seeing how I'm taking care of business w/r/t my life and by extension, hers.
Anyway, she asked me this morning if I could help her again with her friend's webpage. Her friend is running for office and WAW is her campaign manager. She's computer-savvy but not in this area, whereas it's something I know like the back of my hand. I want to help her - I really enjoyed helping her with it before - and I think any opportunity to remind her of my talents and working together to solve problems is a good thing. However, I am wary of being taken advantage of, and I'm a little miffed at her ask given how little effort she puts into the things that are important to me, such as finding time for counseling or even saying hello on my birthday.
I don't want a big fight, but I don't know how to proceed effectively, either. Any ideas?
I say go and help her because she hasn't seen you much. I think you go put your best foot forward, but possibly have somewhere to be afterwards, depending on the time and situation.
If you don't want a big fight, then don't push anything like the counseling or birthday acknowledgements. If she cared about your needs right now then she would be acting differently, but that's not the case currently so let it be IMO.
So go and put on a happy face and have no expectations.
H 34 W 29 BD 3/12/18 Divorce Busted Spring 19
It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
Yeah I agree with ovrr- very tricky. But potentially an opportunity to display some changes you have made.
I would say help her - but do it as a friendly neighbor would - calm, polite, agreeable. Definitely don't say anything about the birthday or counseling, you want to avoid any touchy topics like you would the plague. You want her to see you in the best light possible.
If you need to meet, keep away from all talk of R. Let her do most of the talking. Like 80-85%.
I will say it is interesting that she asked for your help. I wouldn't read into it at all, but I think it's ok for you to privately celebrate this small moment of positivity before you continue on with your GAL and personal development.
Yeah I agree with ovrr- very tricky. But potentially an opportunity to display some changes you have made.
I would say help her - but do it as a friendly neighbor would - calm, polite, agreeable. Definitely don't say anything about the birthday or counseling, you want to avoid any touchy topics like you would the plague. You want her to see you in the best light possible.
If you need to meet, keep away from all talk of R. Let her do most of the talking. Like 80-85%.
I will say it is interesting that she asked for your help. I wouldn't read into it at all, but I think it's ok for you to privately celebrate this small moment of positivity before you continue on with your GAL and personal development.
Stay strong, Steve!
Thanks both - we're going to meet up early next week to solve the problem. Mostly just said that I'd be happy to help, and after she expressed some concern and frustration with the problems, that I was sure we'd be able to figure it out together. Looking forward to it.
Interestingly, when I replied back (this was all via text, our preferred communication medium), we also had a nice back-and-forth about the work trip she's currently on, with her sharing that she was exhausted from the travel, had a really frightening turbulence incident, and was thankful of the things I've been doing to keep things organized. Good opportunity for me to just listen and break some ice a little.
Hi everyone, I just wanted to share an update - partly for some thoughts from the gallery, and partly to help myself process some of the things that I'm feeling.
WAW did sit down about two weeks ago to go over a few logistical things - and we sat for a good two hours. It was really nice, actually. We definitely still have the same rapport we always did - we can make each other laugh so easily and when we actually sit down together, it feels so natural and fun. That part still is there, which is really the only thing keeping me optimistic.
She also was more emotionally open that she's been in forever, sharing about her new job, her frustration with traveling, being scared at really bad turbulence, and so on. It feels like some ice is being broken, but it's still pulling teeth to get her to actually find the time, and of course, going back to MC is out of the question right now. It's very clear that she doesn't want to move on, but she doesn't want to work on things, either. So it's the same limbo. But it's nice whenever we actually do sit down - we end up just enjoying other's company like we always did.
In my last conversation with my therapist, I said something along the lines "Well, this [censored], but I'm sure she knows how I feel", to which my therapist disagreed. He said "You've given her the space she wanted. In her mind, you're doing your thing, she sees you on IG playing softball and on the beach - it's very possible that she has no idea how much this has hurt you, or the things that you've done to improve yourself since".
I semi-agree and I semi-disagree; WAW knows me well enough to know that reconciliation is my goal, even if I'm out there getting a life. Giving space is not the same as giving up. But one thing he did recommend is that in the spirit of the season - and in a 180 to my refusal to be emotionally open and vulnerable during the MR - was to send a Christmas card with a heartfelt letter attached.
And so I did, even though I sort of knew that the veterans on here would disagree. The letter was kind of just putting it out there - I took ownership of things I contributed to the S, I talked about the ways I've addressed my issues through counseling and reading, my belief that I'm not the same person that I once was, my view of this is a positive thing despite all of the pain, and so on. I do firmly believe that if we did reconcile, things would be profoundly different, and I believe all of the positive rapport that we do have is rare and is worth fighting for.
Christmas itself was really, really hard. For the last seven years, we'd spend Christmas with her family in DC. She's got a big, loving Greek family - very much like the movies - and for as nice as it is to spend some time with my family, it's just not the same. It feels like I've lost like 75% of the people that I care about, and it really hurts. Someone from her side has reached out to me very, very rarely - and while it was nice to hear that they don't really understand what happened, either - it hurts to feel erased, like I don't really exist from their perspective.
I did text WAW to wish her a Merry Christmas, and she replied a few hours later, and confirmed that she got the card. The #1 thing I really can't understand - and it's possible I'm reading way too much into things - is that there's such a difference in between the way she is when we're actually sitting down and working on things and the way she is at other times. When we're together, she's upbeat and we have fun and I can make her laugh, but other times she just seems so aloof and almost angry. When she didn't reach out to me at all on my birthday (and I assume she wouldn't have reached to me on Christmas if I didn't text her first), my therapist said that an action like that is the action of an angry person...but I just don't know why she has that anger. I still don't really know why this happened. I'm giving her the space that she wants, I feel like I'm going above and beyond to operate without any clarity from her side.
As far as me, I may have mentioned that I left my job, and I'm knee-deep in spinning up a new venture of my own. Talking to investors, making pitches, etc - back to the early-stage grind. It's exciting and stressful, but I'm a lot happier than I was in my old job. The lack of structure and consistent days certainly gives me more time (especially now given the holidays) to think about my situation, but I think I need to be nice to myself on that topic. Just feel what I feel, let it sink in.
New Years is going to suck too - being on my own for one, and last year WAW and I went on a trip to Cancun together, and it was really the last time in retrospect that I can remember feeling really confident that our MR was on the right track. 2019 sucked, and I wish I could just erase it. But I was talking to a friend the other night, and he asked me, "How long does this last? How long can you do this?" and as much as this hurts, I have to hold out hope. I still love her. I know things would be better. And so I guess I'm going to keep working on myself and until I'm at my breaking point or she says that it's over, I will be here. It makes me feel powerless and weak and naive, but I don't want to give up. Not yet.
Anyway, sorry for the filibuster of an update, and thanks for listening/reading. Any comments are helpful.
Giving space is to eliminate pressure. Sending the letter was pressure. 5 years on this board and have yet to see a letter work. If this was Hollywood then maybe it would be a different story. You operating under the illusion of action right now and your pursuit is only going to push her farther away.
Giving space is to eliminate pressure. Sending the letter was pressure. 5 years on this board and have yet to see a letter work. If this was Hollywood then maybe it would be a different story. You operating under the illusion of action right now and your pursuit is only going to push her farther away.
Yes, I definitely hear you and understand that this would be the opinion held by the board.
I'll willingly admit a lot of my actions with regard to the letter were actions of fear, and actions of discomfort with my complete lack of agency. I do agree with my therapist though that I don't think WAW knows how much this has affected me, nor does she know the things I've been doing in the interim to improve myself.
Either way, it's sent and even if I have sender's remorse about it, I can't un-flip that switch.
There's such a weird game theory to this. I have to believe that so much of my WAW's actions are because she has no credible fear that I would ever just walk away, she knows (and she's probably right) that she holds the cards. And that's just such a crappy, uncomfortable position for me to be in.
Here’s the rub Steve, she knows but doesn’t care. When they get to the point where they are chasing happiness there isn’t anything that is going to stop her.
Yep. The person who cares the least is in charge of the relationship. She knows it and loves it. How do you change the dynamic?
