ILBY & EA-- help!

[Traveler]

Hi May,

I'm amazed how "aware" you were today. He was angry and called you names, partly because his friend was angry and called him names. You realized that but still called him on it and won't be his punching bag.

He yelled at me for leaving (admittedly my idea but he was totally fine with it), calls me an a**hole, the entire reason we went to the game was to experience the end, etc etc, all my fault that we left, he didn't want to but I forced it (bull), etc. I finally told him to cut it out and stop acting like an a**hole.

It sounds like his behavior escalated quickly from something you could validate (his feeling upset that the most exciting moments came just after leaving) to something you'd probably want to set a boundary on and not tolerate for your own mental health (being yelled at and called names).

I did reciprocate and am responsible for moving it into sex. We also didn't finish, partially because I didn't feel like another slam/bam/thank you maam that was totally focused on him-- I think I could be able to have sex without it affecting me too much emotionally, but I would want it to be for me too, not just for him and I don't think that is where it was going. If that is all it is going to be, I don't see the point either.

Sounds smart you stopped the sex, instead of continuing as a one-sided encounter. I see your mixed feelings--is engaging in it pressure, or a way of repairing a key issue? If you two end up engaging again, I wonder if instead of stopping, it's possible to guide him towards a position or another activity where you control his pace. Sorry if that's too graphic! I recall this has been a difficult area for you two.

He didn't say anything about AP and I didn't ask; he also is now back to "I don't know what I want" rather than "I am thinking I want to move out" which is what he said last time we talked.

You got through some tough situations today. I'm glad to hear you may be making progress!

[may22]

Hi CW,

I'm amazed how "aware" you were today. He was angry and called you names, partly because his friend was angry and called him names. You realized that but still called him on it and won't be his punching bag.

Wow, thanks so much for saying that... putting that lens on it makes me feel really good that I've been able to make that progress for myself and on my own reactions... this is the first time I've really laid down my own boundaries, enforced them... AND then let it go afterwards when he apologized rather than stewing about it all night. Feel good about that!

Sounds smart you stopped the sex, instead of continuing as a one-sided encounter. I see your mixed feelings--is engaging in it pressure, or a way of repairing a key issue? If you two end up engaging again, I wonder if instead of stopping, it's possible to guide him towards a position or another activity where you control his pace. Sorry if that's too graphic! I recall this has been a difficult area for you two.

Yes, this is a tough one. He was clearly so conflicted about it-- it almost seemed like he felt his body was betraying him, and he said he couldn't give me "what I wanted"-- like making love vs. just having sex. I did send him the links to Esther Perel's two TED talks-- he'd heard her on someone's podcast and was interested in her perspectives.

Overall, though, I do feel like there is some progress here, especially with a little distance from Saturday night. We had two great days since then with 180s on both our parts-- Sunday he spent half a day on yardwork, which in the past would have triggered some angry feelings at me (he thinks since I put in the garden I should do more to stay on top of it, and he gets frustrated when things get overgrown). I've been doing more on my own, and then Sunday he just happily did a ton of work (letting me sleep in) and was really nice about it, invited me to participate (which I did) and it ended up being super productive and fun. Maybe doesn't sound like all that big of a deal but I was honestly amazed. Then we talked a ton about how he's feeling about this friend, he was really open about feeling hurt and acknowledged that he doesn't often show those feelings. I got the opportunity to be 100% on his side, which I didn't always do in these situations in the past, and I feel like he really opened up. He's been seeing an IC and I think his ability to acknowledge his feelings is coming through those sessions, and it is great.

Yesterday was also a great day, we helped each other out a lot and he noticed and complimented me on a major 180 for me (we used to be in a place where even when he saying something rude as a joke would trigger me-- now I can just joke back)-- he noticed this yesterday, saying that not only am I so much better at handling his outbursts if he does get mad but now I can tell when he's just joking and give it back. He's initiating a lot of text chatting and conversations.

Anyway-- I do feel like we are reconnecting more emotionally. We have a busy few weeks coming up, with friends coming to stay, then he's off on a business trip (though not to her city thankfully), then my entire family comes for Thanksgiving... usually a stressful time as my mom and H don't always get along so well. I'm wondering if I should say anything to her ahead of time, at least that H is having a difficult time right now (I've told another friend that I thought he was in some version of MLC, which is a lot easier to share than that he's not in love with me anymore and in fact thinks he's in love with a 33 year old)? I don't want to say anything to her that could potentially damage their R or freak her out, but I also want her to be on her absolute best behavior and cut him some slack if things get hairy. My dad too... my H has cultivated this image of someone whose feelings can't be hurt, who jokes around a lot, and who is not afraid of a lively discussion/argument... but then people do say things to him, hurt his feelings, and then he shuts down. (Just like at the soccer game.) I'd love to avoid those situations if at all possible. Any thoughts?

[may22]

Hi CG,

Sex seems to be a source of pressure for him . If he cuddles don’t be the one to turn to sex . Just cuddle . If he moves on to sex if you are going to be emotionally ok with it give it a whirl . If this is one of the main sources of conflict like you said in first post it’s going to take some time before he’s comfortable again.

I think you're right on-- it is pressure for him and I should just take his lead. He's still definitely holding some resentment/anger for me withholding sex for so long and I also think there is a big part of him that doesn't want to jump back in just because I want to now.

I think your DB is helping . Look at his actions . He came back into mbr . He’s hasn’t moved forward with moving out . Apologized for being out of line .

It’s hard when you want them to show just some type of commitment. Marathon not a sprint . GAL more this week . Increase your happiness . You had a little bump with sex put it away and move forward .

Thank you for this... it DOES really help to look at the actions and see that things are improving, even if baby steps and more slowly than I'd want. Sunday he also finally talked with me a little bit about Christmas vacation plans (I've been quiet to reduce pressure and waiting for him to suggest something) and has talked with other people about a family trip planned for next summer. Definitely need to make some GAL plans and keep my mind on me!

[Caligirl]

Good job with Christmas. Amazing they are capable of making plans . I did this with a kids birthday . Just mentioned it was ones birthday in a week few months back .I made no plans . Well I had some thoughts I kept to myself . H did all of it on his own . I just went along with it . Ended up being a great day .

[may22]

Thanks Caligirl! Not much to update-- things continue to be positive/friendly/fun. Friends in town this weekend with an S2 who is a little bit of a monster (super cute but I forgot how destructive 2 year old boys can be) and H and I had the opportunity to be on the same team, rather than letting stress get the better of us and take it out on the other person. We actually had a short conversation about it as we both felt the temperature start to rise, and then everything was fine.

No R talks, no late night sex situations, nothing exciting to report. I do notice more contact (he'll come right up beside me, touching, to get my help on a crossword puzzle) but I definitely feel he is like a skittish cat-- don't call it out or he'll run away. In fact sometimes he notices as it happens and backs away himself.

I had the opportunity for 15 straight minutes with his phone when he was out and I knew there was no chance he'd catch me. Maybe I shouldn't have done this but have really wanted the opportunity to see for myself if there was anything on his phone. Nothing-- no messaging apps, went through everything. He wiped his call log about three weeks ago, halfway through his last trip, so potentially there was contact then (as I've assumed); he also could just be deleting the messages/calls as they come in but my gut is that the EA is over (for now), though may be more because she walked away than he did.

[Traveler]

I had the opportunity for 15 straight minutes with his phone when he was out and I knew there was no chance he'd catch me. Maybe I shouldn't have done this but have really wanted the opportunity to see for myself if there was anything on his phone. Nothing-- no messaging apps, went through everything. He wiped his call log about three weeks ago, halfway through his last trip, so potentially there was contact then (as I've assumed); he also could just be deleting the messages/calls as they come in but my gut is that the EA is over (for now), though may be more because she walked away than he did.

Hi May, glad your situation's looking up--that you may be winning back your "skittish cat"!

If she walked away because she asked him to make a choice and he wouldn't, that says something about how he's feeling towards you. May May's relationship keep going in this direction!

[may22]

Hi May, glad your situation's looking up--that you may be winning back your "skittish cat"!

If she walked away because she asked him to make a choice and he wouldn't, that says something about how he's feeling towards you. May May's relationship keep going in this direction!

Thanks CW! Still nothing to report-- same same, tiny positive steps but I guess boring is good

He's off on a business trip again now-- left late last night but to a different city. he's already texting me a bunch and I'm going to be slow on the responses to see how that all goes and just focus on having fun with the kids. My parents get here too before he gets back, which will also be fun for me and the kids, but I am a bit worried about how they'll interact. Decided not to stress about it and just cross that bridge when it comes-- and if there is tension, an opportunity to show him we're on the same team.

How are things going with you???

[KristinG]

Hey May! Glad you are staying so optimistic and open! Keep that focus up. I like your goal of showing him you're on the same team. Slow and steady, consistent actions. We have no way of knowing that he is being "good" while on his trip, but drop the rope on the subject and enjoy life and your kiddos. It sounds like his heart is warming and he's pulling toward you. Don't scare the cat! Hope you have a great weekend.

Kristin

[Caligirl]

Love you are focusing on the kids ! Sometime even just for a few hours I get lost with them . Some of the best GAL I have .

You are doing great !! Learning to focus on you more .

[may22]

OK. I need some help from vets.

H is on a business trip, not to the city where AP lives (DC)... or so I thought. Spoke with him last night and there was a last minute change, the group he's working for supposedly asked him to come to DC first for a meeting on Friday, then get to NY for the main meetings he is on this trip for on Monday. The group he's working for has offices in both places.

I called him last night (his time) because someone had opened our mail, and was asking him where he was staying and he told me the change of plans, etc. I am sure he noticed that I was surprised and not super thrilled that he hadn't told me beforehand where he would be. He heads to NY today.

Friday he texted me throughout the day, including a bunch during his dinner/bedtime. Yesterday much less texting, though responded to a text about our daughter's soccer game and texted me a couple things on his own. When I asked him what he'd been up to, he talked all about the dinner he had Friday night and then zero detail for what he ate that night... sure sign of a lie. (We're both into food.) I think at some level he knows I know he's lying, especially this time because he didn't tell me he was going to DC at all on this trip.

So here's my dilemma. Looking at all the small signs, things are definitely much better between us. The fact that he's texting me so much is a huge change from business trips several months ago. When he BD'd the EA on me, I am fairly confident he assumed I'd kick him out, which didn't happen, and then put the onus on him to decide to leave or not... which he hasn't done (and which I'm fairly sure the AP is/was "not happy" about). But, while things have improved, he is definitely not saying that he wants to R yet. Our last R talk, initiated by him a couple of weeks ago, went from "I'm thinking about moving out" to "I don't know what I want"... so improvement, but not anywhere close to actual R. And I am aware that for me to be secure in a future MR with him, he'll have to really want it rather than begrudgingly decide on Plan B (me) and not losing the kids half-time is better than the alternative. At this point, I'm having a really hard time envisioning how that will even ever happen.

I feel like it is incredibly disrespectful to me for him to continue to be in contact with her and lying about it. He knows I know he's talked with her a few times since BD, but not that he saw her once (maybe twice now). Partially I want to tell him if he wants to continue to be in contact with her, he needs to move out. On the other hand, maybe that gives him exactly what he wants (me telling him to go) so that the decision isn't on him. Is that a boundary? or am I just being impatient? I've had a few conversations with a DB coach, who has counseled patience, let this thing die on its own and focus on the friendship between us... but I'm also sick and tired of this. I obviously can't control him and I can't know if he's lying or not. I definitely am observing progress, but I feel like as long as he keeps talking to her, even just a little here or there, he'll never get to a place where he's ready to focus on us.