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DaB35 Offline OP
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Just found that that there is NMMNG Meet-Up group in London. I am tempted to go. I'll have a think about it and see if I can fit it in my weekly schedule; could be useful.

One thing I had remembered today suddenly was W accusing me of being a 'purveyor' of porn by being on a tube site, having a profile, maintaining that profile and contributing to the site by commenting etc. Doing her usual thing of taking a thought and discussing/stretching it to breaking point: saying there are lots of impressionable people looking at these sites every day and I was 'feeding' that world.
She is under the impression that I did it all because I didn't love her, didn't care about her, enjoyed it, preferred that world to my life with her, found my exes and her sister more attractive than her, didn't value the M, and would have had a PA if she didn't find out. She even told me after she discovered all this that she then worried if I was having an affair with my IC, a work colleague, or that I had a secret girlfriend in the town that I work in (40 miles from our house).

I understand her concerns of course; the mind would be going wild and her world would have come crashing down on discovering my lies. For example in one of the online chats I had I said I had a one night stand in college to impress the woman, when actually W was my first time at age 27. She now thinks I lied about her being my first. I even said I just had a GF and wasn't married. My IC says this was an example of compartmentalising the issue - separating W from it all, as I'd placed her on a pedestal and didn't want to associate her with it which is why I never discussed her in the chats, and kept it from her by almost blotting it out my mind for hours/days when I was with her or our friends.

I acknowledge she would naturally let thoughts run to certain conclusions. But at the time it was frustrating and so much to deal with, having all this thrown at me.

I realise I handled her accusations so badly during this process. I would immediately go on the defensive, no validating at all. I should have listened, empathised, and calmly told her the true situation.

Her family are rather dismissive of mental issues such as depression or anxiety etc. (despite the fact that, as mentioned in a previous thread, W has been trying to get her mum to go to IC for years yet her sister is always declaring in a rather unknind way, "Mum's mental!" or "Our mother is not a nice person."). They generally say stuff like, "Oh come on, just get on with it, stop with the poor-old-me."

When I initially explained to W that one of my issues was self-esteem and self-image she said "Everyone has that. I don't go on porn sites and send pics of myself to men to make me feel better though. Why'd you do it?!"

Not that helpful as it shames the person who is feeling down and doesn't advance any potential progress, when "OK, you're feeling [x]. That must be awful. What can I/we do to help you? How about we [x]?" would be far more useful.

I have to keep looking forward though; I am telling myself every day it is her loss as I am a very good guy. I have a much better view of myself and my self-worth has really increased, especially in the last couple of months.

Learning all the time!

Last edited by DaB35; 11/06/19 06:47 PM.

Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
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DaB35 Offline OP
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One silver lining here - at work we got on the subject of the 1980s and I said I was feeling old when some of the younger colleagues said they hadn't heard of certain 80s songs. They asked me when I was born and when I told them I then said I was 36. Another person said, "Well, I'd never put you at 36. You look really, really good for your age! Well done!"

Nice little confidence boost there!

Another thing that crossed my mind is that W seems to have really affected chances of R as she has effectively broadcast what I did to her family and everyone in our friend circle near where we live. I know that it's only been 5 months etc. But just felt a little sad about that. If she didn't blow up and simply confronted me calmly, perhaps in front of my immediate family, then maybe things might have worked out differently. Now everyone who knew me in that area knows, in varying degrees of detail, what I did. Additionally, W has not heard about my IC updates so I guess is still re-writing history.

I know it's hard to predict what will happen in a few days let alone a few years. I'm just trying to stay the course with GAL, PMA, getting IC into practice and being generally positive.

Have contacted L about the finance order. Not an experience I'm looking forward to but there we go.

Right, back to the 80s music!


Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 214
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Originally Posted by DaB35

When I initially explained to W that one of my issues was self-esteem and self-image she said "Everyone has that. I don't go on porn sites and send pics of myself to men to make me feel better though. Why'd you do it?!"

Not that helpful as it shames the person who is feeling down and doesn't advance any potential progress, when "OK, you're feeling [x]. That must be awful. What can I/we do to help you? How about we [x]?" would be far more useful.


I had this exact experience. My offense was far worse than yours, of course, but, looking back, I don't feel that I had a chance to work through the "why" with my W. Like you said, I was embarrassed and ashamed and wanted it to go away as quickly as possible and stop hurting her so I took it all on myself, every part was my choice, my fault, she had no impact whatsoever on the situation. I wish that we'd approached the situation differently.

Originally Posted by DaB35

I have to keep looking forward though; I am telling myself every day it is her loss as I am a very good guy. I have a much better view of myself and my self-worth has really increased, especially in the last couple of months.

Learning all the time!


I'm glad that you are still looking in the mirror, learning, and so on. One of the things that I wonder about the WAH/WAWs vs those on these forums is whether they will come out the other side of this better than when they went into it. Reading your posts makes me confident that you are stronger and that gives me hope for myself, too.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
Joined: Jun 2019
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Originally Posted by DaB35
One silver lining here - at work we got on the subject of the 1980s and I said I was feeling old when some of the younger colleagues said they hadn't heard of certain 80s songs. They asked me when I was born and when I told them I then said I was 36. Another person said, "Well, I'd never put you at 36. You look really, really good for your age! Well done!"

Nice little confidence boost there!

NICE!!! It's awesome to be noticed. And there's nothing wrong with appreciating music across multiple decades smile
Originally Posted by DaB35

Another thing that crossed my mind is that W seems to have really affected chances of R as she has effectively broadcast what I did to her family and everyone in our friend circle near where we live. I know that it's only been 5 months etc. But just felt a little sad about that. If she didn't blow up and simply confronted me calmly, perhaps in front of my immediate family, then maybe things might have worked out differently. Now everyone who knew me in that area knows, in varying degrees of detail, what I did. Additionally, W has not heard about my IC updates so I guess is still re-writing history.

I've wondered/worried about this, too. That the more our Ws bash us to our friends and family, the tougher it would be for them to walk it back. Based on the stats that 1/3 of divorced couples attempt to reconcile and approximately 1/3 of those succeed, it has to be possible (since anger is pretty common from what I've seen and heard) and, by not taking that same path (calling our Ws "crazy" and so on) we at least aren't creating additional barriers. I regularly think back to the castle and the picnic metaphor that is used so much here - W may build higher and thicker walls, may even throw some things at me, but I'm going to have a great time at my picnic (might even put some New Order on :)), and she can decide if she wants to participate. Having said all of that, I still share your fear.

One other thing to consider - W has been making some stuff up about me, more than exaggerations. On the one hand, it angers me that she's slandering me and sad that it's how she feels. On the other, my taking the high road consistently seems to be swaying people to the idea that this isn't as black and white as it may seem on the surface. To be clear, I'm not telling them that she's wrong, I'm showing it with my behaviors. She is holding certain things hostage but I'm not reciprocating - these actions seem to be adding up to those around and, hopefully, she will one day see that the narrative she has for me is not aligned with reality. In your case, you participated in an activity that most people participate in - I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, that's for you to decide. But I have to imagine that some people listening to her are a bit confused as to why she's throwing away an M over that (especially considering the changes you are making).

I'd be curious as to what others have experienced with WAW/WAHs dragging names through dirt and then ultimately reconciling.


M(35), W(35), D(4)
M-9, T-12 Bomb Drop (D announcement) - May 3, 2019
W moved out Aug 13
House sold Sept 25
Papers signed Nov 15
Divorce finalized Dec 12
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
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DaB35 Offline OP
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Crdcheck thanks.

Yes I didn't get a chance to really discuss the 'why' with W. She was angry and my IC had only just begun so we hadn't explored lots of stuff at the time. W is extremely impatient and lazy, so she demanded a full-on explanation after my first 2 sessions of IC. She was not happy when I couldn't supply that.

I agree; I wish we approached the situation differently. Her to not broadcast it to all and sundry, and me to DB quicker and validate when she was talking to me during the 'softer' period we had together in June.

Originally Posted by crdcheck

I'm glad that you are still looking in the mirror, learning, and so on. One of the things that I wonder about the WAH/WAWs vs those on these forums is whether they will come out the other side of this better than when they went into it. Reading your posts makes me confident that you are stronger and that gives me hope for myself, too.


Yes I wonder this too. Once D is done, will my W feel she is stronger? Will she feel there is a huge me-shaped gap in her life for a long time? This hit her hard; she went on ADs and lost weight etc. I felt awful for her and really wanted to help but couldn't. All I could do was take a back seat and hear about it secondhand or from her a few days/weeks after the fact.

Yes you'll definitely feel better about yourself. You're not an evil person; you're not an abuser or anything. You have just made a mistake, like lots of people on these forums.

Originally Posted by crdcheck

NICE!!! It's awesome to be noticed.


My thoughts too! It was nice to hear that today. I needed a little lift.


Originally Posted by crdcheck
By not taking that same path (calling our Ws "crazy" and so on) we at least aren't creating additional barriers. I regularly think back to the castle and the picnic metaphor that is used so much here - W may build higher and thicker walls, may even throw some things at me, but I'm going to have a great time at my picnic (might even put some New Order on :)), and she can decide if she wants to participate. Having said all of that, I still share your fear.


Absolutely. I can understand how fearful it can be for you too. I am deliberately not creating barriers to her, or anyone for that matter. Just moving along my little path. Not really sure what's up ahead, but I'm taking things slow, trying new things, getting myself to feel good mroe frequently and worry less about general life.

Originally Posted by crdcheck
One other thing to consider - W has been making some stuff up about me, more than exaggerations. On the one hand, it angers me that she's slandering me and sad that it's how she feels. On the other, my taking the high road consistently seems to be swaying people to the idea that this isn't as black and white as it may seem on the surface. To be clear, I'm not telling them that she's wrong, I'm showing it with my behaviors.
She is holding certain things hostage but I'm not reciprocating - these actions seem to be adding up to those around and, hopefully, she will one day see that the narrative she has for me is not aligned with reality. In your case, you participated in an activity that most people participate in - I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, that's for you to decide. But I have to imagine that some people listening to her are a bit confused as to why she's throwing away an M over that (especially considering the changes you are making).


I see what you mean. I have no idea what she is saying. None of the friends I have up near where our house is have spoken to me for nearly 6 months now. I'm doing the same as you - take the high road, not out of spite but to demonstrate that I'm not a deadbeat loser or hopeless cheater she might be painting me as.

A part of me fears that others my think of that new-found confidence as arrogance, that I don't care how I've hurt her. That isn't true. I am not going round badmouthing W to anyone. I have worked out some flaws of hers and how my NGS made me let those slide even when they'd really upset me.

The length of time that I did what I did and how I concealed it from W for such a long time was definitely wrong, and I realise this. Yes I do think there are some that might question her intention to throw a M away over it, when I have not had a PA or met up with anyone or kissed anyone. I'm not downplaying anything but just stating the facts.

As for the musical picnic, I'll also put New Order on, and add Tears for Fears, The Police, Talking Heads, Prefab Sprout, and Toto to the list.

[I've just really got into Genesis' Trick of the Tail album - not 80s I know but still amazing! Makes me want to buy some Moog bass pedals. I love the opening bass note of Dancing on a Volcano!]


Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
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DaB35 Offline OP
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Found a few old threads with helpful thoughts on them:

State your goals (consistent with your beliefs) and come up with a plan of action. If your actions work keep doing it, if not try something new. Open your mind and don't let fear hold you back from acting.

If you love your spouse and let them go. It's not lying to do that, even though you don't feel that is the best thing to do. Understand your feelings, know why you feel the way you do and take healthy productive action based on your goals.

You have a choice in how you handle things. You can choose the path of love, self-respect, healthy communication, forgiveness and responsibility for your self. Or you can choose to be a victim, make others responsible for your feelings and let things happen to you. "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Don't let your feelings define you. Let your actions which is a sign of your character. Handle it.


I feel I have let my W go. I admit I have not dropped the rope entirely because I think about her still and occasionally wonder what she's saying to others in her circle about me. However, we are not talking very much at all unless it's about progress on the D or the house sale. I am not pursuing by reaching out or pleading. I do miss her still though. I have tackled my issues and am working on them; so far so good really.

The path I'm currently on is I think the right one - my actions for myself are working, and I do think they are healthy and productive. I'm working on letting my actions be more natural and just part of everyday conversation with friends and family ("I can do that when I get back from the gym" etc.).

And they may (I say may because the WAS has the free will to just never look back even if we hate that thought) look back and see that a strong, desirable individual has replaced their clingy, distressed and depressed spouse.

I don't know what she is thinking. As a WAS she does not show any sign of R, although since we've not seen each other in 2 months and hardly spoken in that time, I guess she doesn't know what I've been up to. I was a WH to a degree and now a LBH.

I'm not blaming W for what I did, but we certainly both contributed issues to the M; neither of us communicated this effectively enough at the right time and in the right way. If she were upset with me she'd rant, slightly belittle and lecture me, whereas I'd bury the frustrations I was experiencing from her actions.

My quandary is - I don't know if I should 'give up' on her or M, or stick to 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst'. She has no compunction to put in effort to R or discuss things. I do. She is seemingly still stuck on the "I can't believe you'd do this to me. You clearly don't love me" stance.
She wants D. I don't. I am co-operating but not speeding it along. Not sure if her feelings back in July/August of saying she was feeling sad and devastated that 'it's all ended' and losing a lot have changed. I am not sure how she will react (or me for that matter) when we see each other again. I don't know when that will be. It's possible we don't see each other til the new year.

I know that a lot of DBers here feel my W has reacted strongly and things have moved way too quick without much reasoning, although I accept my wrongdoings wholly. Despite this, I am certainly not feeling the same levels of anxiety, stress, worry, poor self-image, and to a degree depression that I concealed from W which led to all this mess.


Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
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DaB35 Offline OP
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Need to let W I'm going to the house to collect stuff and re-scheduled electrician to fix smoke alarms (there was a mix up last week and they didn't come on the right day). She is out Friday evenings until about 10pm so won't see her.

We have not seen each other for nearly 2 months. Very infrequent texting now. No phonecalls.

I'm going to text:

"Hi, I will be at the house this evening as need to collect a few things. Elec like to come [date] in the morning, waiting for them to confirm time. Hope you are well and have a good weekend."

Is that last sentence advisable? I'm thinking "act as if", cheerful and not cold/off-hand, just polite. I don't see it as pursuing - correct?


Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
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Sounds fine, you can never go wrong with "polite"!


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 536
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DaB35 Offline OP
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This is what I don't like - I work so hard at improving myself and GALing and everything which goes really well, and I feel really good, then when I need to send a simple innocuous text I get quite concerned at how she might react!

Guess this is normal (?!).

Last edited by DaB35; 11/08/19 04:39 PM.

Me - 36, W - 32
No kids
T - 8 yr, M - 3 yr
Discovery - 14 May 2019
S - 25 May 2019 & D bomb - 29 July 2019
D & House sale final - Feb 2020
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,152
Likes: 1
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Yes it's normal. I say this fairly frequently around here, but no one thing got you here and no one thing will make or break things. It took a long time to get to this point and will take a long time to resolve it. Don't sweat the small convos. Try to listen and validate and be polite, and if you are and she reacts negatively then you know it's because of some internal conflict and not anything you said or did.


Me: 60 w/ S18, D24, D27

M: 21 years; BD: 06-14-12; S: 09-10-12; D final: 03-17-14; XW:57
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