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Originally Posted by Curtis
If we were D, I wouldnt be participating in family activities.


Hi Curtis, Ive been D over 8 years, and havent missed a Halloween with my kids yet. Spending time with them on Halloween isnt about my ex-wifeits all about my kids and I.



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I think you should go over and see them in their costumes and take some pictures and then leave. If you spent an entire weekend with her at Retrouvaille you can certainly be around her for 15 minutes or so.


M:51 W:46
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C,

I do feel for you today. I'm in the same sitch and have my children wanting me to take them ( me, not her ) but as its her evening tonight, she calls the shots.

The ironic thing being that they are trick or treating on my estate, not the WAW housing estate as there are more houses on mine !.. I'll just go the gym instead.

WAW invited me to join her and her sisters and the the kids and go, but i have no intention of spending 2 minutes in the WAW company. My personal take is that it confuses the children, but each person has to make up their own mind. I also know it is my day next year on Halloween, so ill just go crazy next year smile


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Now Mr Brightside.. coming out of my cage, and doing just fine.
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Originally Posted by curtis7
Proper DB response?
Ok, Im sure the kids would like me to be there. Good if you want to.
Not this time. Thanks for the invite. Good if you don't want to.
No W, thats something a family would do together, you dont want to be a family. No that's too angry/ vindictive.
No response No that's a bit rude considering it's an invite.


Quote
I know, detach from the outcome, go if I want, dont go if I dont want to.


Right! Your W is just being nice, by all means go if you want but don't expect that it changes anything. Just go and have fun. Do it with no pressure and maybe she'll start thinking you've changed for real.

Quote
The dilemma is my kids want me there and I enjoy watching them have fun, but frankly I dont feel like being around the lying cheater, shes not good for me. Do whats best for the kids or best for me? If we were D, I wouldnt be participating in family activities.


My attitude is always do what's best for the kids, even if it's not the best for you. I feel separated/ divorced parents should always show they are united when it comes to supporting the kids.

Quote
On another note D5 told me the following yesterday: Its not cool having two houses, mom said it would be cool, but its not cool anymore. I dont like having my stuff at two different places.


Listen and validate. Yes, even with your kids! "That sounds difficult for you, is that how you feel? I'm sorry you're struggling, but please understand that we both love you very much and are here for you."


Originally Posted by CWarrior
Hi Curtis, Ive been D over 8 years, and havent missed a Halloween with my kids yet. Spending time with them on Halloween isnt about my ex-wifeits all about my kids and I.


^^THIS^^

Last edited by AnotherStander; 10/31/19 12:34 PM.

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I texted WW yesterday morning about trick or treating with the kids. I thanked her for the invite, but decided to pass and wished them a good time. Thought about it some more during the workday and realized Im only going to have a handful more of these opportunities with my kids and I dont want to miss out on sharing these memories with them. At the end of the workday I texted her again saying I finished work up early and wanted to join them. She called me back a minute later and told me where to meet them in a friends community.

The trick or treating was fun. W and I made a little small talk around the loop. I was cordial and did not initiate. I stayed close to the kids and focused on them. When we returned to our friends house, W realized she lost her car keys. We spent the next 20 minutes looking high and low until someone finally found them in her jacket pocket. This is very typical, my W loses stuff often.

I thanked the friends for hosting and was ready to head out. W said Your leaving? in a surprising tone like she wanted me to stay longer. D5 came up to me and wanted me to play for a bit. I stayed a few minutes longer, then left to hit up the weights at the gym. W texted me Thanks just afternoon leaving. I replied Thank you, I enjoyed that. W replied Me too.

Not going to read anything into that exchange, shes still WW until she proves to me otherwise through consistent actions.

Looking forward to picking up my kids this afternoon for our weekend. Soccer, volleyball, baseball, church, grilling out and whatever else pops up.


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Rville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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Hi Curtis, I'm so happy to read you had a great evening trick or treating with your kids.. and that you also have a weekend with your kids coming up. Enjoy!

Originally Posted by "Curtis"
Not going to read anything into that exchange, shes still WW until she proves to me otherwise through consistent actions.

Definitely. Being pleasant while trick or treating with your shared kids is radically different from kicking all OM to the curb and committing to fighting for a monogamous relationship with you.

Last edited by CWarrior; 11/01/19 05:18 PM.


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1 year post BD. This has been the most painful year of my life, but I made it, I survived. I am a better and stronger person. It has been an emotional roller coaster, but it gets easier every day. I have learned how to become more self aware and understand the impact of my words and actions. I have experienced the power of validation and importance of detaching from outcomes. I am grateful for what I do have in life and try not to focus on what I dont have or cant control. I am a better father and if my MR ever R, I will be a better H.

I am still married to my WAS/WW, no papers have been filed. That may be one of the goals of DB, but its more about the LBS becoming the person they want to be, moving to a healthier mindset. Setting boundaries that protect ourselves and command respect. The reality is limbo [censored]. Accept it and make the best of it for yourself and your kids. I dont know what the future holds, but a year from now I feel confident that I will be in an even better place.

I encourage all newcomers to listen and follow the advice of the vets on the board. You will save yourself a ton of pain and suffering the earlier you are able to recognize your situation for what it is, DB, 180, follow Sandis rules, set boundaries, detach, and GAL.

I never thought I would be here a year after BD. Its true that this is a marathon and not a sprint. Enduring lies, cheating, and utter disrespect from the person that swore their life to you and vowed to forsake all others is a monumental undertaking. These trials can tear you down in the moment, but you will emerge stronger and better prepared to identify, handle, and thrive in future hardships. I commend every LBS that stands for their MR and does the right thing for themselves, their kids, and their WAS (even though they dont know it right now). Just remember that the LBS has the power to decide when enough is enough.

My story continues...


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
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Any updates?


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Greetings fellow DBers, its been awhile since Ive posted an update. This one will be lengthy so Ill divide it up into a few posts. Readers digest version is that Im still in limbo, married, separated, no paperwork filed, and Ws affairs continue as far as I know.

Where to begin, lets start with about 7 weeks ago when I told her I was moving forward with my life and handed her the asset list so we could start making decisions on dividing things up. Well about 5 weeks ago she was at our place feeding the horses and a lengthy R talk ensued. I approached her asking if she had reviewed the asset list. She said she hasnt had time. I asked whats the plan with that? She said she doesnt know what she wants. She needs more time, blah, blah. Hasnt had time to figure things out. I said I dont know is as much of a non-commitment as I want our marriage to be over. I said that I dont want to remain married to someone that is pursuing affairs.

W said it was good that she told me it was over last November. She said I wouldnt have ever changed otherwise. I thought about it for a moment, then agreed that it helped me see the person and husband I wanted and needed to be. I told her the moment she gave me that letter (BD) everything became crystal clear. She said I made it worse by snooping and pressuring her afterwards. I agreed and said that all of that was unnecessary if she would have accepted the fact at the moment of giving me that letter I was forever changed. If only she knew how much unnecessary damage has been caused by not giving us a chance in those crucial first couple weeks after BD we could have been spared a world of hurt and recovery. Now we are faced with the greatest challenge in our lives and relationship. We agreed that our communication over the past year has been better than any time in our relationship.

She asked why I brought the list over that night. I said it was a culmination of things in that we were making progress at our Retrouvaille weekend, then on that Saturday night or Sunday morning I sensed that the OM contacted her and she pulled away. We were answering the dialoguing questions and meeting a few times in the weeks that followed, then she stopped working on it. Finally, D5 told me about how having two houses was not cool, all of that was why I felt it was time to give her what she wanted and move forward. It was just too much for too long. I told her I waited for a long time hoping that she realized the reality of her choices or that the affairs would fizzle out over time, but I couldnt tolerate it any longer. I told her I realized that she had become attached to the OM.

I told her I couldnt continue keeping this up in limbo and felt it was time to give her what she wants, not being married to me. She said she was talking to her childhood friend the night I came over and told her I was done. She was telling her how the Retrouvaille weekend was a disaster because I had expectations. She told her friend that maybe we could date each other. Then, she said I told her that I was moving on. I corrected her and said I was moving forward. She didnt understand the distinction and I explained that I am ready to move in a direction with or without her.

W said that I will control her by looking at everything if she were to come back and that was the whole reason she left. I told her like before that I dont want to have to watch over her, thats not healthy for either of us. I said thats why its so important to rebuild trust so I never feel the need to monitor her. W was concerned about what people will think if she does or does not come back. W said I was raised being told I was perfect. She was raised believing that she isnt good enough and that no one thinks she can make it on her own. She said I dont know whats it like to be deprecated by everyone. She doesnt want people to think she came back because she couldnt make it on her own.

W said that she hasnt contacted OM3 since before the RV weekend although he tried to contact her (lie, she went to his place in mid-Oct). She also said OM2 only contacted her recently to share something about his daughter (lie, she was scheduling a hookup with him a day earlier). She claimed not to have seen either of them. She says she went to them because it was convenient. I asked if shes worried about the full truth coming out, if shell feel guilty, or that I wont be able to forgive her, or that Ill continue to bring it up and judge her. She responded that she feels zero remorse for what shes done. I told her I do have an amazing capacity to forgive and based on what I know, which is the worst, I feel that we can get passed it. I told her that even my forgiveness has limits. Like when the affairs continue and you see how much it hurts me, but you dont choose to give them up. She said she knows even I have limits.

W said she never cheated on me until we were separated. I told her we are married, she said no we arent. I said you can justify it any way you want. She said she was never with another man until she told me it was over. Again says that we arent married, only a piece of paper, hasnt been able to feel separated, blah, blah, blah. I told her that we cant have a marriage or work on rebuilding until she breaks off all contact with the other men she is cycling between. She said what plural other men, how do you know, blah, blah, youre spying on me, have you driven past my house? You make me out to be a slut. I told her you cant have feelings for me as long as you are in contact with them.

W said maybe we could start with dating. I told her I might be open to date her but will not compete with other men. She claims she can remain friends with them. I told her that is not an option. My boundary is absolute no contact with them ever again. She said she can understand that. I told her she is choosing affairs over family, infidelity over marriage. She said well I guess were done then. I said okay, I guess they are more important to you than me, than your family. She didnt like that and felt the guilt.

W said I only want her for the image and I like having others know she is with me. She said she knows her good looks and intelligence are attractive to all men. She said all these guys want her just for sex; from guys in their 20s to older men. I asked is that what you want and she replied no. I described a book I read to her about 10/10/10. It suggests you think about the consequences and impacts of your decisions in 10 minutes, 10 months, 10 years from now. I asked her if these men are going to be there for her in the future. She said no, that they arent long term options. I asked if she believes I will be there and she said she doesnt know. I said you dont know after having been there for 19 years together and knowing what Ive tolerated the past year. She said you havent been there for me. W said she is broken and doesnt think she can be fixed. I said you have someone right here that accepts all of you, even the broken parts.

I reiterated my boundary and said we cant move forward any other way. I told her that I cant go back to that pain, I need that boundary to be safe and to protect myself. I need that to be able to rebuild trust. I asked if she listened to an Affair audiobook I sent her several weeks earlier and she said she hasnt had time. I explained to her how the clock resets every time she interacts with the OM and her feelings for me wont return until she closes that door forever. I said it could take many months and after 30 days of NC it will get easier for her, then 2 months, 3 months, and by 6 months she may lose the feelings for them completely and look back and ask herself what was I thinking, what did I almost throw away?

W kept asking how I know things and I just told her I know. She said we have everything yet she doesnt know what is missing. She asked why is it so easy to get married and so difficult to split everything up? She was upset about the thought of losing the place to keep her horse (there it is, the horse is most important to her, not me). She said Im trying to force the situation and she knows Im losing patience. I told her I cant keep living like this, I want more. I told her it [censored] when she goes back to them knowing what she is giving to them and not me. I told her it bleeping [censored]. She seemed to feel the shame. We walked to her car and she said we should sleep on it and talk again another time. We shared a long hug and she left.

The next day I scanned all the pages in my Retrouvaille notebook and emailed them to her stating I thought she might want it someday.

The next day she brought the kids over to exchange. I walked up to her car to ask a question about the kids, she was texting someone and looked at me with disgust for interrupting her. She answered my question and left. I later discovered she was headed to spend the night at OM3s again. He lives 2 hours away. W texted me on her drive saying how good S8 is at chess and how both our kids amaze her. I replied to agree and state they have the best of us. It blows my mind how she can make choices in good conscience to destroy her family.

On to the next update for the action I decided to take...


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Rville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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I had been reading another book about affairs and an approach is described that lays out Plan A (ask W to end A) and Plan B (go NC if chooses to continue the As). I felt it was appropriate to ask WW to end her As, clearly state my requirements for R, and allow her to make the choice.

Here is my version of Plan A that I sent in an email the morning after W spent the night with OM3 (about 4 weeks ago):

W,
I am offering you a gift. That gift is the opportunity to save your family. I apologize for the part I played in leading up to the affairs. I see that I did not meet all of your most important emotional needs. I am willing to avoid the mistakes I made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. I am asking and encouraging you to end your affairs so we can begin to move forward together.
If you choose to join me, know that I have needs to protect my own mental and physical health. I want to communicate those needs to you. My needs are complete NO CONTACT with the affair partners and absolute HONESTY. I am not asking for this to be one-sided. We are both equally responsible for our marriage and working on a recovery plan. I will put forth my full support and effort to meet your needs. End your affairs and youll find me more than willing to work on any and all of our issues, including my own.
Forgiveness is possible and trust can be rebuilt. I know that I will need to forgive you for what were very bad choices. I also know that does not define you as a person. Love is a choice and the feelings will follow. It may take many months. It will take work and starts with a commitment by you. I can assure you that I am NOT interested in judging or punishing you.I can imagine what you are going through is confusing and incredibly difficult. I can only imagine your pain. I'm sorry for that. I've never wanted to see you in pain.
There is so much I want to experience in life with you. Your dreams, my dreams, our dreams, our kids dreams and everything in between. You are the only partner I want to share that with. Im not going to let one bad year destroy a lifetime of happiness in the future with you. I will do my best to forgive and forget the past.
I have no intention of making reconciliation painful, there has been enough pain on both sides leading up to this and over the past year. Also, it doesnt matter what others think, this is our life together. The next chapters in our story havent been written yet. I want to make them filled with fun, excitement, and happiness falling in love with each other again.
I still love you, I always have. You are the greatest gift Ive ever been given. I accept all of you and am grateful on the good days and the bad. We can have a marriage based on a foundation of love, trust, and respect. Lets put the past behind us, reunite our family, and build a new loving, fulfilled marriage.
If this is not what you want, know that I will be incredibly hurt, but Ill understand its time to move forward. I believe in you W. I feel confident that in the end you will do the right thing. Its your choice.
With all my Love,
H
I'll leave you with this:
Fall in love with your best friend. Someone you can talk to about anything and know theyll hold no judgement. Someone who knows the darkest parts of you and loves you anyway, that knows all your flaws and loves you not in spite of them but because of them. Not someone that you cant live without, but someone that you dont want to live without. Someone that you want to experience all of lifes ups and downs with. Someone who will hold your hand through the worst times of your life. When they see you at your worst, when youre broken, and they dont run away but help you put the pieces back together, thats real love.


W sent a text later that morning stating Read your email. Need to read it a couple more times I think. Thank you for sending.

This was my version of earning my way out of the MR. My thought process behind taking this action was to remove ambiguity from what it will take to R with me, let W know that we can move beyond the betrayal, and work together to build a new MR that is better for both of us. My intent was not to offer a long period of time for her to make the choice. However, during that time she would experience the best version of me when we did interact. After a short time, I planned to ask for her decision. If she still doesnt know, then I planned to ask what she wants in the settlement.

A few days later, S8 was at a sleepover with a friend and I asked W if she wanted to join me to see a local concert. She didnt feel like being around other people and instead came over and watched a movie with D5 and I. W and I were talking during much of the movie about a new truck she would like, her saying that we should replace the coffee and end tables in our living room, remodeling disasters at her place, what she feels needs to be done over there, etc.

After the movie, D5 asked W to stay the night. D5 said you can sleep in bed with dad (bless her heart). W said she cant yet. We put D5 to bed and W got ready to leave. She decided to stay and talk about how over privileged others are and how no one in her circle has to live in a low cost home like her. She mentioned how her BFFs and others scoff at her place when they walk in. We talked about what else she wants to do with that house. She was getting tired, thanked me for the invite, and left.

The next day I took the kids to a birthday party and planned to play volleyball afterwards. W texted to ask about volleyball and said she wanted to play. She joined us and we had a great time. It was the first time she played in almost a year. We used to play together fairly regularly. It felt like W has some interest in things going back to her previous normal life.

A few days later I asked her out on a date to see a comedy show the upcoming weekend. On that Friday night, W came to volleyball with me and the kids again. On that Saturday night, I picked up W, we had a few apps and drinks at a nearby restaurant, shared many laughs at the comedy show, then went to a bar for a nightcap. We picked up the kids and dropped them off at her place. She thanked me for the evening. Still no physical contact or real desire that I could sense.

Over the next couple weeks leading up to Thanksgiving I flirted with her a bit and exchanged a few more texts than normal. I acknowledged that I pursued too much in this timeframe, she was feeling pressured, and I wasnt letting her come to me.

On to the next big R talk on Thanksgiving...


Me:41 W:39 S:9 D:6 T:20 M:16
PA:8/22/18, BD:11/6/18
PA discovery & IHS:12/3/18, W moves:4/2/19
Rville:9/27/19, I give D docs:3/1/20
W home:4/5/20 (due to CV-19), W NC w/OM:4/13/20 6/1/20
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