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#2870621 11/04/19 02:11 PM
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Old thread - I saw it on Mulberry Street
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2870563&page=1

I had been planning on a Seuss theme but like the past thread, I seem to be easily distracted these days.


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You can put your stuff here
You can put your stuff there
You can put your stuff anywhere

Stuff up
Stuff down
Stuff in
Stuff out
So much stuff you'll have to shout

Good stuff
Bad stuff
Fun stuff
Kid stuff
Girl stuff

Undies here
Undies there
Girly undies on Andrew's derrière
Of how nice it is to share

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That last line should be "Oh how nice it is to share"

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Thanks doodler. Now to just figure out how to put this in to rhyme.

Nice escapes for S
Nice escapes for A

Over by the waterfall
Oh won't they have a ball

Vacation has been booked
S12 has been given the hook

We might go to Ottawa
Oh won't that be fun to go awa

To see a grand-baby
It's still just a maybe
But fun will be had by all

Hmmm - needs work. I'll keep practicing.

----------

Happy Wednesday

Still haven't heard anything from D27 in San Diego. I'm not pressing the issue just yet. It's perhaps raised the possibility that she won't be up for Christmas to now being probable. Although perhaps she'll come visit her mother but I would doubt that she would do one parent and not the other. With her H still somewhere in the middle of the Arabian Sea according to official Navy sources with no return date known, she undoubtedly has bigger things on her mind. I'm uncertain on how to proceed other than just being patient, giving her space and in part pretending that she's not not talking to me and sending her down her Christmas presents etc as usual.

S25 actually told me the other day, "don't worry about the dishes - I'll take care of them". I expect that his body has been taken over by aliens and that it won't last. I have mentioned that his sister isn't talking to me which got me a possible knowing look and smirk. Or it could have been a trick of the light. They generally "never" talk to each other.

Work has been ramping up to crazy busy. Which is odd because my colleague with the same role is bored. He was printing off information on a new car he wants to buy during work hours and a recently promoted senior manager was asking him how that was going. The same senior manager walked in on me and one of our sales reps talking about product lot tracking, why we don't do it in certain cases and how to deal with a customer complaint that the wrong product had been shipped. I'm getting more embedded in the processes at our acid plant now as well where my phone now rings fairly regularly. We are so massively under-staffed there (and S25 doesn't want to work there) that people are getting very stressed out and tempers are touchy. It's fun in some ways because I'm learning a lot and stuff is getting done and I just have to navigate the core problems. Everyone acknowledges that the key issue is the company president who is extremely capable but doesn't know how to turn off and wants to work under an expectation that everyone else is the same. He knows that this isn't the case but it's hard on him. And everyone else. This is combined with the fact that our biggest customer who takes the majority of our product reorganized and nobody knows what's going on there and we're having to pick up the ball for them as well otherwise there's a chance of losing the end customers. I do believe that my job security is pretty good despite what I've told S and that also nagging itch in the back of my head. But that just encourages me to be seen to add value.

I did get a contact out of the blue from a former colleague who was one of our top sales managers saying "hi" which was kind of odd. Perhaps like a "temp check" from an ex. I'd like to think that if I did need to change jobs that I have enough contacts and such that I can find another role without too much of a problem. We had our pension meetings yesterday and I learned a lot. I'm still figuring that I'll end up working until 70 in part because of the fall-out of divorce and to also maximize my pension earnings. My colleague didn't bother to go as he believes he is going to be managing all his retirement finances himself outside of the company plan and ended up getting censured by the head of HR for skipping a mandatory meeting. He really is sabotaging himself but seems determined to be a sad sausage who has lost his way in his career.

---------------

S is I think wanting to embed me more in her family and life. She suggested that I go with her and her various offspring at Christmas to stay with her Dad in a city south of here. I declined. I do know that she wants me to spend time at her place and not just because there are handy-man things to do. I'm wanting to navigate that carefully. The trip to Ottawa is tentative and would be added to the already planned getaway in a couple of weeks to a local inn. I hope to have the reservation confirmed today. They are on winter hours and so won't get my email booking until today.

It's interesting as I explore this on how some of the apparent red flags about S, she has traits that I feel that I have. She's a rescuer as am I. She throws herself all in sometimes without regard to the consequences. As do I. As I learn about her marital / relationship history she has a history of holding on and trying. In each of the three marriages she tried a later reconciliation which resulted in a baby except for the last time undoubtedly because she had passed menopause first. We had a big laugh when she mused "where have you been all these years" and I responded "in training".

I still have some trust issues that I need to work through which I also struggled with with B. Is she just in it for the things that come along with me, or does she care about me separate of those. Will she stay true to herself or is she pretzeling herself into what she thinks I want. That's not sustainable. I think I have a decent catalogue of the attendant baggage and it's big. She takes ownership of it. But I do remember how it overwhelmed B to the point that there wasn't anything left for her / us.

In other news, one of my neighbours - S25's pretty much single local friend - is off in Thailand and has just announced his engagement to a rather pretty Thai girl. S25 isn't impressed. He is getting some work though renovating his friend's house which his friend's mother is doing while her son is out of the country and possibly without his knowledge. The friend is a decent enough guy even if in his mid 30s he has no visible means of employment and is I believe supported by his mother. Not the best role model for S25.

Well - enough for now. Back to the exciting world of trying to analyze sodium bisulfite sales.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Thanks doodler. Now to just figure out how to put this in to rhyme.

Nice escapes for S
Nice escapes for A

Over by the waterfall
Oh won't they have a ball

Vacation has been booked
S12 has been given the hook

We might go to Ottawa
Oh won't that be fun to go awa

To see a grand-baby
It's still just a maybe
But fun will be had by all

Hmmm - needs work. I'll keep practicing.


I'm terrible at Suessian grammar, but I have been practicing.

------------

Have a nice trip
‘cause you’ll need it for sure
It’s plain to see
The future for thee
One thing’s for certain doodler said
With a grin
When you get back
She’ll be movin’ in

------------

I will not eat poutine
It looks like roadkill
And it’s really gross
I don’t know why Canadians boast

I will not eat poutine in a car
I will not eat poutine on a train
I will not eat poutine in a plane
I will not eat poutine in a sewage drain

I will not eat poutine with a steer
I will not eat poutine with a deer
I will not eat poutine with a duck
I will not eat poutine while I ...ummm

I’ll stop there.

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Happy Saturday!

Wednesday was good. S was a bit surprised by how happy and welcoming and seemingly non-judgmental the staff in the flower shop were. I'd warned her that they seemed to be "very" interested in her. We had a good time and got a couple of ornaments for me and S took home the two parti-coloured roses that were the open house gift item. Her kids are perhaps wondering about all these flowers showing up wink

We hung out after dinner at her apartment for a bit. The dogs have accepted me and we were piled on by both S's little one and her D18's slightly bigger one. Much dog fur on clothing. Her S17 was also there and largely ignored me from the other side of the room but did take part in the conversation. He was interested when I used my phone to do a WiFi site survey of the apartment. They say that parts of it act from time to time as dead zones, but the coverage was good with the equipment they have. I suggested that they do speed tests and look for electronic interference the next time they have a problem. S17 seemed to think that was a good idea and had his own way of doing speed tests.

So - one more hurdle crossed. At speed.

Busy weekend again. Making time for S is work. I told her that today that I won't be able to be over until we are heading out for the charity dinner and auction tonight at around 4:30. Tomorrow I've given her pretty much the whole day. She asked for some help around her apartment. Handy-man stuff plus helping with beginning a deep clean. It "really" needs it. I made it clear that I was only going to be the muscle and that she was in charge of directing where it will be used. I'm going to take along tools to hang some pictures that are just leaning against the wall right now.

And yes - she asked and even though I'm slightly uncomfortable with it, some of her stuff is moving in to my basement. Out of season decorations and kid stuff mostly. It's taking a lot of space and is underfoot. And this is something that I would and have done for friends.

I think that she is overwhelmed by the task of deep cleaning especially as stuff keeps showing up mostly from the house she shared with her STBX as well as her Dad who is - with good intentions - downsizing his house into her apartment. There just isn't room for it all and there's so much that she is I think overwhelmed. For my part, I am trying to determine what level of tidy she is comfortable with. She seemed very comfortable in my house which while not anything that would be featured in Better Homes and Gardens except as a "before" picture, is generally tidy and uncluttered. My ex was a bit of a hoarder and both S and I agree that too much stuff and clutter interferes with the "energy flow" in a home. We'll see what the reality actually is.

I'm staying for dinner with her family on Sunday. She also said that my S25 was welcome to come but I declined on his behalf. I am pretty sure that she would like to go at break-neck speed - even by my standards - on moving forward and being a happy family. I'm trying to navigate this carefully which is difficult. On the other hand, I could be wrong. She's a single mom with (essentially) 4 kids at home. Having activities that don't involve them I am sure is tough. Since S25 and I sometimes don't cross paths, I left him a note last night giving him advance warning that he's on his own for dinner. I don't expect him to care.

To make time for S, I'm having to take some of my usual down time / go slow time and be more efficient. After a long day in the City yesterday I did a load of laundry and shifted around the boat and trailer in the large shed when I got home. Good thing I put lights in the shed when I built it. Normally I would have sat, enjoyed a beer or three and worked on the grocery list. This morning I got up earlier than usual, did more laundry and got my tools ready for Sunday. It's all a question of priorities. I just have to figure out how to do this in a sustainable fashion as it's a fair bit of effort and work to both keep up my own usual priorities and also adapt to S being a pretty high priority too.

Our hotel is booked for our get-away. We're pretty excited. S has negotiated with S12's dad for him to take the boy for some extra days and so our trip to Ottawa to see her daughter and GS are (very likely) a go as well. Again - a part of wanting to draw me in to her family it would seem. I've known her daughter since she was 13 I think. A nice kid who has been to my house more than once and who actually helped bake a birthday cake for me years ago. Certainly a different milieu than most dating relationship.

D25 is a dancer who works in the background of music videos etc although she's pretty wrapped up in being a Mom right now. D18 is working on building an acting career which her Dad is strongly supporting. She's in the soon to be released The Knight Before Christmas on Netflix as an extra in a few of the scenes. The movie and the review looks pretty horrible but I will undoubtedly watch it - probably with S and her family. I advertised it on my Facebook feed as something that "the daughter of a friend is in". I waffled about saying "the daughter of my girlfriend". S already refers to me as her boyfriend in conversations.

Because I like bad analogies and with apologies to anyone from the West or Texas, some days I feel like I've been lassoed, hog-tied and am just waiting for the branding. Not sure I'm objecting but I want to be sure that this is something that "I" want. As anyone who knows me will agree, I'm a sucker for an assertive woman.

-------------

I've noticed especially in this past week that I seem to be losing inches undoubtedly because my beer consumption has plummeted. Colder weather is part of it no doubt but also the fact that S has a bad alcohol allergy so no beer when we're out or before I see her is a factor. Choices. Priorities. I also notice interestingly that when I have a beer after work that it doesn't taste nearly as good. All good things. The fact that this also saves me money is a positive too. My pants are getting quite a bit looser which is actually a bit of an annoyance because I re-invested in pants that fit a few months ago. I do have some "aspirational" pants from last year that - ahem - shrunk though.

Well - time to check to see if my laundry is dry. Then off for haircut, banking, groceries, fresh flowers etc. I'll see what cleaning I can get done before I need to head off to the dinner.

Busy busy busy.


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Omg I cannot believe you’re storing her things already. You should just go into business as a storage facility.

As for her level of tidiness - probably best to assume it’s not great. Understanding that it’s hard to fit too much stuff into too small a space, but hanging pictures is hardly a job that she and her kids couldn’t have done themselves. (Not dissing her, I’ve had unhung pictures hanging around because I was just too darn busy to get to them, but also those things don’t bother me - and make me a poor match for someone who is bothered.) You’ll know more once you see how she maintains (or doesn’t) after the deep cleaning.

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Originally Posted by kml
Omg I cannot believe you’re storing her things already. You should just go into business as a storage facility.

As for her level of tidiness - probably best to assume it’s not great. Understanding that it’s hard to fit too much stuff into too small a space, but hanging pictures is hardly a job that she and her kids couldn’t have done themselves. (Not dissing her, I’ve had unhung pictures hanging around because I was just too darn busy to get to them, but also those things don’t bother me - and make me a poor match for someone who is bothered.) You’ll know more once you see how she maintains (or doesn’t) after the deep cleaning.


Is this how it started with B? Then she was moved in? I hope she isn’t rushing this along because she needs a home for her and her 4 kids....... I’m really, really hoping .

Remember, you can determine the pace and not follow the leader. Be the leader to protect yourself

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OMG! You are storing her stuff too? At the rate you are going, you won't be able to find anything that belongs to you. LOL!. When is the young lady going to pick up her stuff that you've been storing for quite some time. Maybe it's time to think about giving her a drop dead date and if she doesn't pick up her stuff...you will be having a wonderful yard sale since it appears that things are bought rather quickly from your yard.

As for cleaning...her children are old enough to help her with the cleaning and hanging of pictures. However, maybe she's not hanging pictures because this place is only a temporary stop until she finds husband number 4?

I will not be surprised if she suggests moving in after the holidays. Things are moving along quickly and you are fitting in to be the "white knight" or should I say, "the honey do list accomplisher". There's nothing wrong in assisting a good friend, but Andrew, please slow down...a bit in being there to help her. BTW, is she going to come over and help you remove wall paper, redo your kitchen cabinets and help paint? The helping of friends does go two ways.....

Keep your eyes and ears open when you are over there assisting her. You will learn more about her, her family and what is going on w/her during this cleaning event.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Andrew, I have some stuff that needs storing. Please send me your ship to address.

OMG. You are clearly in some sort of cycle where you keep attracting this type. I do not see her as assertive at all. It is really weird to ask a new boyfriend to help you deep clean your place. She does not work! That allows a tremendous amount of time for cleaning. I work full time and clean my own home. I think it is pretty easy considering my kids are gone 50% which leaves less mess and more time. Ginger works 2 jobs and has 100% custody and I think she cleans herself, too? Just pointing out that clearly this woman has very little bandwidth. And from I read you have tremendous bandwidth. There is quite a mismatch there, no?

But, the key issue to this woman, is that she makes (really) bad decisions over and over again without learning from her past mistakes. She opts not to work (even though she definitely can make time for this), she venus flytraps men (marries them casually and at a rate that she then cannot afford to then divorce them) and then introduces/involves men way too soon to her kids.

I think the only thing that would stop her from marrying you today is that she is still married to hubby #3.

Eventually, I think, because she is a person who chronically makes bad decisions those bad decision making skills will impact you.

Maybe she is deep cleaning for the move out of there and move in to your place?


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I’m with the others....can’t believe you’re going to store her stuff too!

The title of this new thread was comical but come on.........seriously?!

I know it takes all sorts but, for me, there is no way I’d want my new boyfriend seeing my built up grime, let alone helping me clean it.

No way.

Andrew......please, slow down and think of what you want. What you really really want (to the tune of the Spice Girls).

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I agree, what she is doing here isn’t assertive. It’s sneaky.

You know this doesn’t feel right and you use the word “uncomfortable” that’s your gut! Listen to it!!!

Deep cleaning her house and storing her stuff? I would never have the cojones to ask that of a NEW boyfriend, let alone a boyfriend. Anything M did for me was offered in the beginning. Like picking up my wood and helping me carry it. I turned him down twice actually, but he insisted. And she’s got a team of kids and doesn’t work! Why is she asking you?!? And yes, although never to my dads approval, I clean. Constantly. I deep clean I find the time on Saturday mornings, after work. And when my dog. Wakes me up really early, I take that time to clean. Oh, and my house got my dads stamp of approval this time . I also work long hours.

Like I said, great if you are enjoying time with someone. But once again, you are following her lightening speed. She’s got a plan and motive, this one. This is how she supports herself. She’s stuck on a vicious cycle. Don’t get caught up in in it.

You are falling back into white knight saving a damsel in distress and I don’t think you are seeing it happen this time. And yes, she is actually in distress. A cycle of it .take control of the reigns, quit letting her guide the pace! You have fun hanging out, so hang out. Stay in the dating stage for a while. Let her save her self. Girlfriend needs a job. She’s home all day while her kids are in school? Time to deep clean! That’s all her problem.
Does she pay for any of your dates?

I don’t discourage dating her if you enjoy each other’s company. But I think what you want in a relationship is simply what the other person wants. You follow their lead and go along with it. And these women can sense those types. Change it up my friend! Don’t be that type! Listen to your gut . Take a little control here. It’ll do you good

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
Is this how it started with B? Then she was moved in? I hope she isn’t rushing this along because she needs a home for her and her 4 kids....... I’m really, really hoping .
With B she came back from vacation to an apartment with a mold problem that got worse in her absence that made her very sick. So she stayed with me for a few days to get better. Then we talked and since her lease / legal obligations were up in a month or so I suggested she move in here rather than move in to a a room in shared accommodation.
Originally Posted by job
When is the young lady going to pick up her stuff that you've been storing for quite some time. Maybe it's time to think about giving her a drop dead date and if she doesn't pick up her stuff...you will be having a wonderful yard sale since it appears that things are bought rather quickly from your yard.
LOL - I ran in to 20 Something's bestie at the charity dinner last night and she's said that she's going to lean on her on my behalf. We'll see if that does any good.

--------------

Thanks all - I do appreciate the input even if I appear to be ignoring it.

We had a great time at the charity dinner. S was excited by the chance to dress up and wore a nice dress and heels. It was a "new" dress that she had gotten a great deal on at a second hand shop. I of course was in my bow tie. I was worried that in this small town that we'd be over-dressed but we blended right in. S was surprised at the number of people she knew at this event. We ended up "winning" the bidding on a very nice hand crocheted blanket that S's dogs were reluctant to see leave later.

When I went to pick her up I was amazed - a significant amount of the random clutter was just gone. She and the kids had busted their butts in the last few days. Heading over there soon to do the tall person stuff. We chilled at her place after the event. Her kids seem comfortable with me.

There is still an amount of the surreal about all of this on how I just seem to be being accepted by her kids. On one hand it makes me think that they are used to a revolving door of guys but that doesn't check out in other sources. S told me that D18 had commented on how different things seem to be between her mother and I even especially compared to the STBX who she felt that there was no deep connection.

I had an odd experience in the barber shop where I've been going for about 30 years. My barber has heard it all. I mentioned that I was seeing S and he actually cuts the hair of a former boyfriend of her's. The story from S checks out. The guy has a serious drinking problem, can be a jerk when he drinks, he thought a lot of her, it's very much in the past and was some time ago.

I think that one thing that is very different here from what most people might expect is that both B and S could be considered low income. Lovely people who are as deserving of love as anyone else and who are in their circumstances due to complex reasons. We all will agree that I am an obvious target for such women which is where I have struggles in the navigating understanding their motivations. As do those looking at this from the outside.

Well - I need to get what ironing I can get done done and then off with the scrub brushes and toolbox.


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Good Morning Andrew

Originally Posted by AndrewP
We all will agree that I am an obvious target for such women which is where I have struggles in the navigating understanding their motivations. As do those looking at this from the outside.

Ouch!

Yes, no one can know for certain the inner motivations of someone else.

One of the strengthens of a forum like this, is the group. Many viewpoints can be listened too. One can even quantify the results from the different sources on things one struggles with. The results may be counterintuitive, and not feel right - a good time to just pause and think about what one is doing. Not necessarily stop, just assess.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Thanks all - I do appreciate the input even if I appear to be ignoring it.

I find that one needs to listen to all advice. But, one doesn’t need to heed all advice.

Everything has value. It can highlight areas of ourselves we would like to modify, and it can strengthen behaviours/beliefs we are happy with. Advice may be followed or not; it is the act of listening that truly bring the change, and there is always a change.

In the end it’s a choice - your choice. And you know your situation better than those of us looking in from the outside.

DnJ


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Happy Wednesday from a rather snowy Upper Lower Middle Kanukistan. I'm going to have to go out at lunch and see if the snowblower is still working.

The weekend handy man thing went well. Some plumbing and HVAC repairs done. S had planned on using my skills on a daunting task. She had a large storage closet that had started with good intentions but over the past few years had become a dumping ground for "whatever". We pulled everything out, cleaned, reorganized and ended up with enough space that we could dance in there, so we did. Because of the sheer volume and weight of the items, there is no reasonable way that she, even with the help of her kids could have accomplished this. It took pretty much the entire afternoon and the higher shelves which ended up with some heavy boxes of fragile mementos on them would have been very difficult for her or her kids. We took a break in the middle to watch the first episode of Good Omens which she seemed to enjoy. S12 got bored of the show after about 10 minutes and wandered away. S made us a nice dinner. Interesting to see how she cooks vs how I do. I tend to over-think and over-plan. S just browses what she has handy, tosses it together making sure there are enough left-overs for whatever random child isn't around and does it well. That's where nearly 30 years of doing this every day makes a big difference.

We were very pleased at how well we worked together. Very different from trying to do things with my ex. I made suggestions, S considered them and sometimes countered with her own view. Sometimes we'd do a bit of organizing, realize it didn't work and then re-do it. It was no big deal. When we were done we were both happy with the results and looking forward to the next challenge.

We have our big adventure to a romantic inn and then up to Ottawa planned for next week. It should be fun. I may slow down on my updates here although I'm keeping my diary up to date. There's really not too going that that's worthy of exploring that's not already been explored.

In other news, the ship that should be replacing the one my son in law is stuck on appears to be just about ready to leave port. My D27 still isn't talking to me but I know she'll be happy to get her husband home. I've extended the olive branch, there's no need to whack her over the head with it. When she's ready to talk to me again, she knows where the lighthouse is stationed. No need for it to go running around after her.

Finally, my weight continues to slowly go down undoubtedly because my beer consumption is cut in less than half. When I do have one now, I don't enjoy it as much as I did. The beer that is currently in my fridge is about a week old and will probably last at least another week or so - something unheard of this past summer.

Oh - because food is important - Farmer's sausage and potato wedge bake planned for dinner tonight. S is coming over to watch Episode 2 of Good Omens this evening. My butcher has guaranteed that his sausages are gluten free. It's an easy meal to put together and is one that S25 pioneered.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
S just browses what she has handy, tosses it together making sure there are enough left-overs for whatever random child isn't around and does it well.

Dude, that's not surprising in a county where you mix fries and cheese curds together and then smother it in gravy and call it a treasured national cuisine. Oops, that was a typo, it should've been "cheese curds."

I came across a sailing movie that I'd never heard of; it's titled "All Is Lost." It stars Robert Redford. It came out in 2013, but I don't remember ever hearing about it back then. It's a pretty good movie, although it's certainly not a "Master and Commander" type of movie. I don't want to spoil anything but I will say that it's not a chick flick. I think you'd like it, but you'd better watch it soon because your main squeeze will start moving in this weekend so you'll no longer have discretion when choosing which movies to watch.

Bumpin' uglies in Ottawa. Don't slow down too much on your updates to this forum; we love to beat you up regarding how quickly you take a deep dive into relationships. You're the Usain Bolt of dating.


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LOL - doodler has a potty mouth laugh

Checked out the movie preview. It looks quite gripping.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
LOL - doodler has a potty mouth laugh

Yep, I was censored for using the "t" word (rhymes with curd). I'm working on my bad boy image.

The movie can keep you on edge. I'm glad I stayed with it until the end.

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Quote
You're the Usain Bolt of dating.


LOLOL!!!!!!!

Now - it's a good sign that you and she cooperated nicely on the closet cleanup. (As for your insistence that they couldn't have done it without you - there's this modern invention called a ladder, I'm pretty sure they could have done it without you.) And the fact that she is actually interested in getting things in order is good - although I agree with others, she's not working a job and kids are in school, why did it take you showing up for things to get moving? Theoretically she has plenty of time to work on this while you're at work.

Not dissing, just saying keep watching for clues. I'm no neat freak and it's definitely nice to have help when reorganizing. And maybe dating has just suddenly made her aware of the chaos she'd grown used to. But your job is to figure out if she's just someone who always looks to be rescued and continues to make poor choices (such as not getting a job when she really needs to). Or if she's someone who is genuinely getting her act together.

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Andrew,

I’ve never been so humiliated in my life, and you Andrew, are largely to blame.

Sunday evening my oldest son’s girlfriend had supper with us (grilled salmon if you must know). We started talking about food that was gross and food that we disliked. I eventually said, “You know, Canadians eat this stuff called poutine. Immediately my son’s girlfriend chimed in, “Oh, poutine! I love poutine!!! How could you not love French fries smothered in gravy with cheese curds?” I vomited in my mouth. I couldn’t believe what I’d heard. I soiled myself. It was a sham, a travesty, a mockery of our way of life and all that we hold dear. I couldn’t believe my ears.

In retaliation I said, “How could you eat the cuisine of a socialist country that has a lame duck prime minister?” A heated discussion about Canadian politics ensued. I weep for Gen Z; they don’t understand all that we’ve gone through in this country to provide a poutine-free existence. I’m so ashamed.

I’m going to have “the talk” with my oldest son. I don’t see any possible way that he can maintain a relationship with that floozy. I never thought it would come to this.

Anyway, I hope everything is going well for you. How was Ottawa? Are you finding enough space in your house to store your new girlfriend’s stuff? When will the fam be moving in?

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Someone should seriously tell those people (looking at you and your kind, Andrew) to stop calling that brown stuff that they pour over poutine "gravy". Come on down to the south and let us show you what gravy really is. But, seriously, even when making it right, who puts cheese and gravy together? (Shudder...……………………..)


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Pah!

If you want real gravy, you need to come to the U.K. a typical Sunday roast here would include cauliflower cheese, topped with grilled cheddar and yes.........

With gravy poured over. Yum!

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Ah - doodler and Dawn - tempting me out of the shadows by dissing our cuisine laugh You two need to expand your horizons and accept that other cultures will have practices, such as putting pinapple on pizza that most reasonable people find abhorrent.
Originally Posted by doodler
How was Ottawa?
That's this coming weekend.
Originally Posted by doodler
Are you finding enough space in your house to store your new girlfriend’s stuff?
Have to get "20 something's" stuff out first or build another shed wink
Originally Posted by doodler
When will the fam be moving in?
Two of her 3 at home kids know where the house is. D18 has heard about the comfy cast iron tub and been allowed in the kitchen door by her mother presumably as a secondary scouting party. My expectation is that they will move in when we're out of town mainly because I keep saying that my WiFi is better than their's. I don't "think" that they know where the spare key is, but breaking in is easy. Just knock on the door and S25 will open it especially if they bring a plate of delicious poutine - with proper cheese curds and not grated cheese.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Ah - doodler and Dawn - tempting me out of the shadows by dissing our cuisine laugh You two need to expand your horizons and accept that other cultures will have practices, such as putting pinapple on pizza that most reasonable people find abhorrent.

Agreed, pineapple on pizza is abhorrent. Check this out...

"Greek-Canadian Sam Panopoulos claimed that he created the first Hawaiian pizza at the Satellite Restaurant in Chatham, Ontario, Canada in 1962."

sick

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I’m totally open to other cuisines. I think we all just need to get on the sam page with names and learn what gravy is. Westo, you totally had me at cauliflower with cheese sauce, until you poured gravy over it and I suspect that what you call gravy is akin to what Andrew calls gravy. No thanks! Pineapple on pizza????? That is just blasphemy right there. Mr. Pizza Hut is probably rolling over in his grave. And lest we get ahead of ourselves, I’m fully aware that Pizza Hut isn’t good pizza but I live in the sticks with no cell signal at my house so cut me some slack. If I can’t even get cell service, how can I be expected to get REAL pizza (minus the pineapple because that is just wrong). My good southern roots tell me the best use for a pineapple is a good, old-fashioned pineapple upside down cake fresh out of the oven in a cast iron skillet or as part of a glaze on a big ole juicy spiral cut ham. Of course, there is the ever popular southern dump cake and hummingbird cake, both of which call for crushed pineapple. So see, not averse to pineapple.....just don’t want it on my pizza because it doesn’t belong there.


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Andrew,

Will you be indulging in the fine Canadian prairie oysters whilst in Ottawa this weekend?

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Originally Posted by doodler
"Greek-Canadian Sam Panopoulos claimed that he created the first Hawaiian pizza at the Satellite Restaurant in Chatham, Ontario, Canada in 1962."

sick
I've been to Chatham. No further explanation is required.
Originally Posted by doodler
Andrew,

Will you be indulging in the fine Canadian prairie oysters whilst in Ottawa this weekend?
LOL - Is this the equivalent of poking me with a stick to make sure I'm still breathing? laugh

I've never had the beef, but I had the pork ones when I was young. Very tasty especially when fried in butter. In Ottawa I'll undoubtedly have a beaver tail (get your mind out of the gutter please) laugh

------

Vacation has started. I'm almost over the cold I caught last week. It took some time but I figured out I think where it came from. On Remembrance Day I went to the cenotaph close to the plant and was chatting with a man there and in the course of the conversation we shook hands. He had a dripping nose. That and standing in the cold and wind for about an hour - a small price to pay to recognize the sacrifices of those who made it possible for me to BE standing there - tipped me over the edge.

I had a tickle in my throat and warned S on Wednesday which she shrugged off and so we both have been sick because for some reason we seem to have done things that thoroughly populated us with common germs. Go figure. She doesn't seem upset at me that she got sick at least.

The weekend together was good. S decided that she wanted to come over on Friday night so I picked her up after work at her apartment where the kids had been given their marching orders. S12's Dad arrived as we were leaving to pick him up for the weekend. S stayed until late Sunday and S25 joined us for a nice Sunday Supper of ham and scalloped potatoes which I actually did right. I'd been struggling with that recipe and had to adapt it so that the sauce was gluten free. S made two apple crumbles using the gluten free oats that I'd stocked up on. We had one and she took the other home.

Packing her up to go home proved to be an exercise. Unlike B, S had her stuff well scattered around the house and it was actually quite late by the time we got her home. I noticed that S25 had found some small pink socks in the dryer as well as she had brought laundry over to do so that it would be caught up before our vacation. I've also found a few things here and there that were overlooked. With that and the long red hairs that she has been shedding in the car, her territory is well marked.

At her apartment - not to my surprise at all - things were in a state of chaos. I believe "words" were spoken after I left. I expect similar results when we get back next Monday.

To nobody's surprise, S appears to be trying to move things along at a breakneck speed. I did have a talk with her and told her that I need time to process things. I'm not objecting to a possible destination but need time to figure out how to get there and TBH - to this audience only - making sure that it's going to be a place where I will want to be and will be happy and content. She's offered that she has some opinions on that matter. I've also pushed a bit on what does "she" want as she seems to be focusing on my wants, needs and interests. I still don't have a clear understanding of that although she does have a big attachment to the sort of place she lived in with XH#2 - a hobby farm. While not really urban, I do live in the middle of a village. In fact, around the corner from where she lived for a year or so after she left H#3 about 5 years ago.

Integrating happy families seems to be a priority for S. She's invited S25 through me a few times to be part of things which I've declined on his behalf. I need to talk to S25 and see what he thinks. Her crew will probably come over for the Santa Claus parade in a couple of weeks and stay for hot cocoa. We'll probably go all together to a local Christmas festival that supports an environmental charitable foundation I used to sit on the board of directors of.

S has told me that she won't be able to get me a Christmas present and I assured her that the best gift of all is her time. I think I've got figured out what to get her but need to confirm it with her D25 this weekend that it is appropriate. A mani-pedi for her and a bestie at a local spa is part of it. I'm confident that that sort of spoiling isn't something that she's had the luxury of. The other and perhaps more controversial part is that I was thinking of getting Christmas Stocking treats. Nuts, candy, small toys etc. Essentially what I would get for my own family. She and her crew are spending Christmas with her Dad and this would help make their Christmas Morning a bit better than it might be otherwise. S' D25 will be able to tell me if this would be considered positive or intrusive and also what sort of things are traditional in her family. Not budget breaking for me, certainly not something sparkly but hopefully thoughtful.

Well - time to climb in to the tub and have a nice soak then pack up my stuff, pick up S and then off to our overnight get-away and then the next day off to Ottawa.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
LOL - Is this the equivalent of poking me with a stick to make sure I'm still breathing? laugh

No on the poking you, but yes to making sure you're still breathing. After all, I might have to use your storage facilities.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
In Ottawa I'll undoubtedly have a beaver tail (get your mind out of the gutter please) laugh

Beaver tail? Sounds furry. I like tacos. Why would my mind be in the gutter?

Originally Posted by AndrewP
To nobody's surprise, S appears to be trying to move things along at a breakneck speed. I did have a talk with her and told her that I need time to process things. I'm not objecting to a possible destination but need time to figure out how to get there and TBH..

I'm aghast!

I think Christmas stockings is a nice gesture without being overstated.

And, it's okay with me if you get me a Gunboat 66 catamaran for Christmas. I promise to sail it often.

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Just to clarify... she's talking about you moving?? I assume into a new place where you two blend your families together? How long have you been dating? This seems to be a bit early for that kind of conversation! And she can't afford to get you a Christmas present? Very strange. Please correct me if I've misunderstood something!

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I’m lost...... you’ve been dating for a few months and she wants you to move out of your house and somewhere else together? She talking about this?

Please please please slam on the brakes.

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I think stockings are a nice gift for S's children. They don't have to be big or elaborate...just some candy and a small item or 2. I love doing stockings for people because usually they are just genuinely surprised that someone thought of them. As far as a gift for S herself, I may be in the minority here, but I'm very curious why you are spending extra money and putting extra effort into getting her spa treatments for her and a bestie. That just seems odd to me. I mean, if you want to give her something like that as a nice gift so she can feel pampered, that is sweet, but why include the extra expense of someone else that you may or may not even know? She's a big girl and she can go to the spa by herself. Her children go to school and she doesn't work, but I would imagine her friends do (maybe, maybe not), so she could use some of that time during the day when she is by herself to go. Like I said, I may be in the minority on this. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it because you have to go with your gut, but I'm just saying I don't get why you would even think of it.


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I'm not moving and there has been no conversation on that beyond my refusal to move being one of the reasons why things ended with B.

Sorry if there was any confusion.


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Originally Posted by doodler
Originally Posted by AndrewP
Ah - doodler and Dawn - tempting me out of the shadows by dissing our cuisine laugh You two need to expand your horizons and accept that other cultures will have practices, such as putting pinapple on pizza that most reasonable people find abhorrent.

Agreed, pineapple on pizza is abhorrent. Check this out...

"Greek-Canadian Sam Panopoulos claimed that he created the first Hawaiian pizza at the Satellite Restaurant in Chatham, Ontario, Canada in 1962."

sick

You'd have thought I'd have taken this as a sign: my exh and my first date was a pineapple pizza (his choice, I'd never heard of such a thing)


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and Andrew - enjoy this time with S, but for the love of all that's holy, slow it down, man. If she's really "the one" you have the absolute rest of your lives to sort it all out. why the rush rush rush on her part? is this why she's shopping for hubby #4??

50% of first marriages fail
60% of second marriages fail
75% of third marriages fail

We do NOT get better at this with practice. The greatest predictor of failure for 2nd and 3rd marriages? If the re-marriage happens within 5 years of the divorce from the previous spouse.

It's an indicator that someone isn't learning the lessons, merely repeating the mistakes with a new person and expecting different results.


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^^^by the way, that's also the definition of insanity (repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results)


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We all know where this relationship is headed. Andrew and the new girlfriend will be in Ottawa this weekend. She'll be knocked up by Sunday evening. Then the fam will move in with Andrew and soon enough the new youngin's will arrive. Andrew will plan his escape by logging into crewseekers dot net. Next thing you know, he's shacked up with a hairy hippie chick on a 26 foot sailboat somewhere in the Caribbean smokin' Marleys and listening to reggae. Yep, that's Andrew in a nutshell.

Meanwhile doodler becomes the pizza magnate of North America due to his patented invention, the deep dish Hawaiian poutine pizza. It'll be named "doodler's delight." It can be ordered with the prairie oyster topping (i.e. going full Canadian). When ordering just say, "I'll have an extra large doodler's delight, full Canadian please."

Due to the success of his pizza, doodler is able to buy his very own 66 foot catamaran that he sails 'round the world with his bevy of lovely and cultured female admirers.

So Andrew, do you see where you're going wrong?

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Originally Posted by doodler
Due to the success of his pizza, doodler is able to buy his very own 66 foot catamaran that he sails 'round the world with his bevy of lovely and cultured female admirers.

So Andrew, do you see where you're going wrong?
I'm glad that your dreams are modest doodler - an 80 foot catamaran is just too ostentatious wink

Had a very good - nearly week away with S. The romantic getaway was. S was thrilled to get the flowers in the room which ended up going to Ottawa with us. The inn very much exceeded expectations - we will certainly go there again as time and budget permit.

The trip to Ottawa was good as well. The main purpose was to visit S' 4 month old grand-baby and help her daughter out. I did much dishes and folding of laundry and things were pretty much all caught up by the time we left on Monday afternoon. The GS is very cute despite teething so his grandmother and I were chewed and drooled on - by the baby - quite a bit. Many baby cuddles, giggles and kisses were shared. I was very pleased that I was trusted with this new baby in my care but perhaps they are to the point that if any responsible seeming adult offers that the parents are keen for a break. It appears that I've not lost my touch with taking care of babies and really enjoyed it.

We did get some sight-seeing in as well and I was able to have my first beaver-tail.

Spending about 14 hours in the car together and chatting was good. We explored a bunch of issues including things like our pasts, the chances of an ex popping up (much higher for S than for me), different Christmas traditions etc. I did check with S' D25 about my ideas for gifts for her mother and while she agreed, she did suggest that I check with S first about the stocking filler idea. That turned out to be excellent advice. S originally seemed a bit put off that I was thinking of doing that but after a bit thought that it would be fun for us to go and do that shopping together for her family so that's what we'll do. One key thing is that my traditions for filling stockings are very different than her's and so if I'd gone ahead on my own, it wouldn't have been "right".

I did find out some things that surprised me but nothing too far out of the normal. S is planning on filing for divorce after the new year which would be the full year after her attempted reconciliation. Her STBX is still pestering her to try yet again even though she says that she has told him that there is no way that's going to happen. She still has some stuff at his house that needs to be sorted out and she is making that a priority. She did say that the odds are quite high that he knows that we're dating as we've encountered mutual acquaintances multiple times - perhaps that's why he's pushing for her to come back again - or perhaps not. As a timeline they were together from about 2011 to 2013 when she moved out because of issues she had with him. She had a couple of fairly serious relationships since then, attempted a reconciliation for a few months in the winter of 2018/2019 and realized that he didn't change at all and pulled the plug on it early in the new year. She didn't date anyone since then until we started dating in September.

I dropped S off at her apartment which was actually cleaner than when we left it - the kids were given very explicit instructions. My house was in pretty good shape although unexpectedly there was a "very" intoxicated "20 Something" in my kitchen along with S25 and 20S' bestie. Much wine had been consumed. 20S and her boyfriend of a couple of years have split in a rather nasty fashion and she's not taking it well. I almost suggested that she could crash at my house (rescuer!) but bestie had everything all figured out saving me from myself. A lot of people including me didn't really care for 20S boyfriend - he had a sort of "oily" personality that bothered me. I will admit that one of the things that crossed my mind is that 20S will now need her stuff back.

After leaving the contents of her stomach in my downstairs toilet, 20S was poured in to her friends car (who doesn't drink) and hopefully is sleeping things off. I suspect that one of the things causing the break is that 20S was recently diagnosed with a brain tumour - a fairly serious one that affects her vision and other things. I know nothing beyond that.

S25 was very chatty when I got home too. We talked a bit about my trip. I did mention to him that S had invited him through me to take part in her family events and that I declined on his behalf. He didn't seem bothered one way or another.

Well - that's all for now.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
S is planning on filing for divorce after the new year which would be the full year after her attempted reconciliation. Her STBX is still pestering her to try yet again even though she says that she has told him that there is no way that's going to happen.


Stepping back or up to a 30,000 foot view, taking out names, people and personalities... Given the board we are on and all of the various threads here over the years that tell the often similar stories, if S's STBX were posting here, would you be the other man (OM) Andrew? Or perhaps it would be OM3 or OM4? Sure, you did not break them up and only started dating two months ago, but if you were not in the picture would S be finally moving forward with D?

It's human nature to rationalize things to fit our narrative or even our life. But put yourself in his shoes... is this not sorta the same thing that has happened to many of us here with a WAW or WW? They find someone else and it's only then they push forward with the D? Maybe it's not the same, it just sort of feels that way - the story is just told from a much different viewpoint - that of the OP. Or maybe I'm not seeing it clearly at all, perhaps others can chime in.

Originally Posted by bttrfly
and Andrew - enjoy this time with S, but for the love of all that's holy, slow it down, man. If she's really "the one" you have the absolute rest of your lives to sort it all out. why the rush rush rush on her part? is this why she's shopping for hubby #4??

50% of first marriages fail
60% of second marriages fail
75% of third marriages fail


Butterfly, I was thinking the EXACT same thing a day or two before you posted this. I was even going to look up the stats to be sure I was remembering them correctly - I was based on what you posted. The stats don't often include 4th marriages - just the first three, but I did find this on the Internet - FWIW as you can pretty much find anything on the Internet whether it's remotely correct and true or not:

93 % of fourth marriages end in divorce within five years.

If that is not a sobering statistic, I don't know what is. Yet, it's been crickets since you posted the D stats, Butterfly - but I'm very glad you did. But as they say, you can lead a horse to water... (and now Doodler is going to finish this saying with a crafty/crazy response - any bets? LOL.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
I'm glad that your dreams are modest doodler - an 80 foot catamaran is just too ostentatious wink

I'm no longer married and Christmas will be arriving soon, so I'm hoping and dreaming for the perfect boat even if it comes with a hairy hippie chick. I was looking at monohulls, but I really want a catamaran because of their shallow daft (Bahamas, you know) and comfort. I like the performance catamarans because they're fast and they can sail close hauled. They have daggerboards in each hull so they aren't as susceptible to being pushed aside by the wind. (When I was a kid I loved sailing my dinghy close hauled because the boat would smack the waves and get my sister soaking wet.)

There is a good performance catamaran built by HH that's 77 feet long (named HH77). Is that close enough to 80 feet? I really like the Gunboat 66 because it can be sailed solo. All of the lines come down the center of the boat to the helm at the front (inside) of the salon/saloon. All you have to do step out to make adjustments to the sails. The windlass is right there as well so you can anchor solo. Too cool and way out of my price range.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Had a very good - nearly week away with S. The romantic getaway was. S was thrilled to get the flowers in the room which ended up going to Ottawa with us. The inn very much exceeded expectations - we will certainly go there again as time and budget permit.

I'm glad you had a good time.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
We did get some sight-seeing in as well and I was able to have my first beaver-tail.

That is very funny! There's nothing more I can say.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
As a timeline they were together from about 2011 to 2013 when she moved out because of issues she had with him. She had a couple of fairly serious relationships since then, attempted a reconciliation for a few months in the winter of 2018/2019 and realized that he didn't change at all and pulled the plug on it early in the new year. She didn't date anyone since then until we started dating in September.

Sounds like she's kinda like B. Food for thought.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I will admit that one of the things that crossed my mind is that 20S will now need her stuff back.

Shame on you for those evil thoughts. wink

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Well - that's all for now.

Happy non-metric Thanksgiving.

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Don - not sure I quite agree with you on the OM stuff. I mean, they were separated for years, she had one brief reconciliation attempt and quickly realized it was a mistake - I think we're safely out of OM territory this time, and sounded like she had very legitimate reasons not to take him back.

On the other hand, Andrew, those statistics on marriage are very sobering. I would suggest you refrain from considering marriage itself. At least for five years. Her track history with men is pretty bad and I'm reluctant to chalk it all up to just having a broken picker. A broken picker doesn't lead to having more children than you can provide for from several different dads. (Please tell me she's post-menopausal or has had her tubes tied???) That part is on her.

I'm not saying people can't change, and maybe she's growing up, BUT she hasn't quite demonstrated that yet. And if you ever did marry - her or someone else - I'd suggest getting an ironclad pre-nup first.

All that being said, I'm glad you had a nice time. Just take your time and pay attention.

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Originally Posted by doodler
All of the lines come down the center of the boat to the helm at the front (inside) of the salon/saloon. All you have to do step out to make adjustments to the sails. The windlass is right there as well so you can anchor solo. Too cool and way out of my price range.
Being able to single-hand is useful - in many aspects of life. So often you will expect to have crew show up ready to haul a line or assist with some bottom painting and you are left showing up on the quay all by yourself.
Originally Posted by doodler
Happy non-metric Thanksgiving.
Thanks! The restaurant that S and I had dinner at last night offered a turkey and stuffing poutine. I thought of you laugh

Originally Posted by kml
(Please tell me she's post-menopausal or has had her tubes tied???) That part is on her.
Menopause at 40 that went smoothly and without drama. I was snipped a month or so before S25 was born. If a baby shows up, there had darned well better be three dudes showing up with expensive presents as well.
Originally Posted by kml
I'm not saying people can't change, and maybe she's growing up, BUT she hasn't quite demonstrated that yet. And if you ever did marry - her or someone else - I'd suggest getting an ironclad pre-nup first.

All that being said, I'm glad you had a nice time. Just take your time and pay attention.
Thanks kml. Thus far everything she has said or done has been consistent and where available, backed up with corroborating evidence. When I was dating B, I'd reached out to my lawyer and he said that a co-habitation agreement (we're nowhere near needing one) is a pretty standard thing and he'd be happy to assist. At 55 I have a future to protect. Both S and I have a lot of things to deal with on our different sides before we can consider any sort of co-habitation and we're both open about that. While we've talked about it as a possible future in general terms, there are a lot of unknown unknowns and we both are very clear on that. The fact that it's not just two people and the fact that the kids involved are of an age where they are entitled to a say in what happens in their lives is just part of it. Her kids especially have to be comfortable with the idea that I exist and S having been through multiple episodes of resettling them only to have them uprooted is I think terrified of the idea of doing that again. I think that one reason she wanted me around her place so early was in part to see if the kids could accept me / I would be fine with them before she invested too much in the relationship.

Additionally, I think that given her history that she's even more reluctant to expose herself to risk than I am. Her past marriages all ended up with her suffering some sort of financial calamity on top of the emotional. But - to speak honestly - she's also more in need of a safety net than I am too which is why even now she doesn't have a clear picture in to my finances beyond the fact that I am debt free aside from mortgage and car payments and can also a nice vacation each year.


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Quote
Menopause at 40 that went smoothly and without drama. I was snipped a month or so before S25 was born. If a baby shows up, there had darned well better be three dudes showing up with expensive presents as well.


Lol! Btw, that early menopause was probably a celiac thing.

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Originally Posted by doodler
All of the lines come down the center of the boat to the helm at the front (inside) of the salon/saloon. All you have to do step out to make adjustments to the sails. The windlass is right there as well so you can anchor solo. Too cool and way out of my price range.
Being able to single-hand is useful - in many aspects of life. So often you will expect to have crew show up ready to haul a line or assist with some bottom painting and you are left showing up on the quay all by yourself.

Solo sailing does have it's benefits. Although, I would consider a hairy hippie chick crew; I'm certainly not quay.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Originally Posted by doodler
Happy non-metric Thanksgiving.
Thanks! The restaurant that S and I had dinner at last night offered a turkey and stuffing poutine. I thought of you laugh

That's a great idea; a Thanksgiving deep dish poutine pizza. The first layer is pumpkin pie, the next layer is turkey and stuffing poutine topped with cranberry sauce. Yum!

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Poor 20S. She's hurting so very very bad right now. She wanted me to drive her 3 hours to where her boyfriend is so that she could beg for them to try again. It took effort to say no but to offer a shoulder instead.

She's been through this before - she has a history of making poor choices in partners. I hurt for her though. It takes quite the effort to not try to help her in the ways that she's asking to be helped. I think she's burned through all of her friends and family. S25 told me that pretty much nobody liked her boyfriend - a list that includes me.

---

Had an odd encounter last night. I saw a promotion for a new bow tie style that I thought CL's S15 (I think that's how old he is) would like so sent it to her. Got a "thanks" and short note that her life is boring and the same as it's always been. My response that my life is complicated and that I recently was visiting my girlfriend's grandson I think was quite the shock to her based on her response. I had noticed her making plans with my family to come up for a visit during a regular get-together so it's undoubtedly good that she knows about my status. Presuming that she still had some interest in me that is.

Back to work in a rainy day. S is coming by later for dinner and an overnight - not sure what we'll having for dinner.


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Oh - and it seems that D27 is talking to me again - at least texting / snapchat. Her first message was a picture of my apology card late last week. I'll probably see about having a regular call with her next week sometime.


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Give 20S a couple of books - He’s Just Not That Into You and Why Men Love B!tches.

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Bored at work. Inventory count today so nothing is moving through the plant. I have stuff to do but poor motivation.

DnJ's post about pet names got me thinking and I didn't want to thread-jack OwnIt's thread more than necessary.

Since I was about 18, when I went off to University I changed my preference from Andy to Andrew. One reason is that that was the name that went on all the forms and I just went with the flow. The other was that changing the name I used for myself was helpful in distancing me from a past that while by most standards was pretty good, had some bad memories. My family largely calls me Andy and to my young nephew I'm "Uncle Andy". It used to jar but since my divorce doesn't. My ex who has a 9 letter name that was never shortened in casual use, insisted to all and sundry to refer to me as Andrew - sometimes rather forcefully. She was in some ways very protective of me as well as dominating me.

S told me that she had a policy of not dating anyone who had a "boy's name" as she felt that it would be a red flag that they were big man-babies. Something she'd encountered multiple times by what I gathered. She also mentioned rather to my surprise but then again not, that I am by far the youngest guy she's dated being only 4 years older than her.

When S and I were on our adventures the topic of pet names came up when I mentioned that I was working on avoiding doing the same things / saying the same things that I did in previous relationships. Kinda hard. She asked if my ex and I had pet names for each other. I said yes. And no - it had nothing to do with tacos, I didn't tell her what they were and there is a pretty much zero chance that either of us will use them. Hun or Hunny are no-go areas for her. XH#1 and STBX both used that even though she asked her STBX to not use it. It's not a normal one for me to use although B used it earlier on with me and it was fine by me.

An interesting topic.

One thing that I'm working through that is undoubtedly completely normal is relationship anxiety. I had this with B as well. During times when I've not heard from S in a fair while, or if her message to me isn't all warm and fuzzy, I start to wonder if she is actually committed to making things work. Undoubtedly silly and undoubtedly normal. But certainly a sign that I am in many ways a pretty insecure person at least with regards to personal relationships.

Speaking of books - S is reading and making no attempt at concealing that she's reading "The Highly Sensitive Person in Love". I didn't comment or ask but I've looked up what it's about and it's not quite what I thought it would be. It is indeed something that would match what I understand to be S' personality. She is on medication for ADHD (don't recall what) and she does say that she has a real difficulty focusing if she forgets her pills. She can't stand repetitive noises (I had to remove a ticking clock from the bathroom). With all of that, she's a pretty organized person which being a single mom / in a relationship with an unreliable partner with 5 kids for so many years is undoubtedly a requirement.

The web-site for the book has an online test which I took which also identified me as a "highly sensitive" person. It is true that after high stimulation like volunteering at a community event that I need to decompress and crowds or noisy surroundings can be overwhelming. On the other hand, it may well be that anyone taking the test is marked as such to increase book sales.

Doing some reading up on this is informative and I believe that I need to learn lot more. S mentioned that her regular IC session (she goes twice a month I think) that her therapist challenged her to contrast controlling and caring behaviours. S has been calling me out when I make suggestions about "her stuff" which I make sure to tell her is completely legitimate to have those boundaries. She also commented that it's all well and good that I identify myself as a "fuss-fidgit" but I need to stop fussing over her so much. Also completely legitimate and something I have told her I need to work on and that I am trying to work on.

One thing to note as well is that S commented several times when we were in Ottawa on what a short time-line we've had so she is aware. She said that she herself is trying to stand on the brakes just like I've commented that I'm doing. The smell of brake dust in the morning ... ahhhh.

Wednesday didn't work out as planned. S' S12's dad had something come up so instead of S coming to my place, I went to her's. We hung out for a while, took S12 to his karate class, had dinner and then hung out for a while more. Her S17 bantered back and forth a fair bit and teased me that I should be running away from that family. All in good fun. It's good that they seem comfortable around me. S12 also seemed to have no issue with me being part of dropping him off / picking him up nor riding in my car although it took him a bit to find the door handle on the C-HR. I had noticed that S12 was on a web site that while it is cartoonish does have a lot of sexual and graphic violence references. It is also rather juvinile and yes, I find it generally funny which is how I recognized it. After I got home, I sent S a link to the site and my comment that it was undoubtedly funny to a 12 year old but that some of the content could be a concern and left it with her at that. No clue on if this is an issue for her or not. Not my kid so I have no say in the matter but as a friend I thought it appropriate to quietly notice.

Not sure what the weekend plans are. It's S12's weekend to be with his dad so S has been tentatively planning on coming over after I'm done work today and staying the weekend although she said there were things at her apartment she needs help with. All very normal and rather domestic.

Well - back to work. We have some packaging that shows as being here that isn't here.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Since I was about 18, when I went off to University I changed my preference from Andy to Andrew.

Andrew,

There's a strange coincidence that I never thought about until I read that sentence (above) in your post. My sons have a very good friend; the three of them are like brothers. Their friend's father's name is Andrew, but everyone calls him Andy. Andy is from Canada; I believe he has dual citizenship. Andy's parents were Hungarian; they immigrated from Hungary to Canada when Andy was very young.

Andy was the CEO of a local software company that eventually went public around 1995. (That was back before the Sarbanes-Oxley Act killed the public market for small companies.) I think Andy's company was partially financed by a wealthy Canadian. Regardless, after going public, Andy was (and is) a wealthy man, but he's had multiple marriages so he's not as wealthy as he used to be.

So, I know two Andrews from Canada, or more specifically, from the greater Toronto area. Fortunately, local Andy has never mentioned poutine.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
S' S12's dad had something come up so...

Well mister sensitive, I just had to mention that I think the possessive of S is S's not S'. S' implies plural possessive. Is there another S that you're not telling us about? Are you sure there's not a bun in the oven?

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Originally Posted by doodler
So, I know two Andrews from Canada, or more specifically, from the greater Toronto area. Fortunately, local Andy has never mentioned poutine.
Are you sure he's really Canadian? Does he apologize to the furniture if he bumps in to it?

Originally Posted by doodler
Originally Posted by AndrewP
S' S12's dad had something come up so...

Well mister sensitive, I just had to mention that I think the possessive of S is S's not S'. S' implies plural possessive. Is there another S that you're not telling us about? Are you sure there's not a bun in the oven?
I did buy some non-gluten flour so many ingredients are in place wink Among other allergies, S is also allergic to yeast so it would be a sort of flat bun / bread thing? And how would you diaper that? crazy

I've never been clear on the use of the apostrophe in these cases. S is of course an abbreviation of a pseudonym. There are more letters involved. And I do not recall Mrs Pletsch's instructions on this. On the other hand, she gave me a low mark in high school English because I didn't agree with the official symbolism in Jonathon Livingston Seagull .... Greater minds than mine may need to be consulted. S has a degree in English but I'm uncertain if that means that she can spell well. Moving 5 kids through school probably gives her better knowledge of the subject than her degree.

-----------

A bit of a news-worth weekend. S was over and we had a nice domestic time of things. We binge-watched the last episodes of Good Omens which we both enjoyed. S it turns out is a fan of 80s era action movies which I have no real exposure with so I have been informed that we'll be watching Terminator sometime soon.

S was working on Saturday around the corner at my friend's cafe so I did the errands etc alone. We cooperatively made dinner on Saturday (beef stir fry) and Sunday (meatloaf with mashed potatoes and gluten-free packaged gravy). We are both impressed by the fact that we can cook together without any issues at all. When I need advice (was stuck on the sauce to use in the stir fry), S and I figured things out. When she needed some extra muscle, I mashed the potatoes. My ex and I could never have worked so well together. And she didn't make very nice gravy.

My meatloaf recipe makes 1 large and 2 small ones which I sent home with S for her boys. They will hopefully be appreciative of my cooking.

The big news is that S' (still not sure on the use of the apostrophe) D18, boyfriend and their dog abruptly moved out on the weekend. S' lease allows her to have one dog and this extra dog was one dog too many and the landlord noticed last week so D18 was informed that she would have to deal with things. D18 and the dog are moving in to S' STBX's house, the boyfriend is probably moving back in with his mother and I really need a crib sheet to keep track of all the people and inter-connectivity. S believes that this move out is permanent with D18 staying where she is and then going off to school in the city in the fall. Not my circus and the monkey aren't mine either. I'm glad that at least for now that she's not giving up the dog who is a rescue mutt that she got only a few months ago. The poor pup is sweet but certainly stressed and nervous.

This was actually one of the large barriers to S and I considering sharing housing as while I have room for stuff, there are only 4 bedrooms so the number of people who can be accommodated is limited. Both S and I though comment that it has only been a couple of months and now that the big dopamine rush of limerence has faded somewhat I think we are being far more rational about things. On the other hand, many here would point out that I've deluded myself before into thinking that I knew what I was doing.

job has expressed the opinion that S will try to move in after the New Year. She might be right although I do actually hope not. There's still a lot of learning about each other and getting comfortable with each other that we both say that we need to do. On the other hand, job has a lot clearer perspective on things in some ways than I do.

In other news, S' XH#2 trashed his car and has doubts on getting a new one - despite making significantly more money than me, he's generally broke. So that means that S12 at least for the near term probably won't be being picked up to see his dad mid-week and on the custody weekends, S will probably have to drive him over for the weekends at least. Annoying but not world ending. Since XH#2 fancies himself as an actor - he wants to retire from his high paying job, work free-lance, try to kick off his acting career and wants S to "just trust him" on child support, he may be getting a car to at least get to auditions. S has enough experience with his shenanigans to not "just trust him".

S' kids seem pretty relaxed with me and laugh, joke and tease. S12 overheard his mother and I talking about how we would adapt the schedule and heckled that we wouldn't be able to kiss on Wednesdays unless we took care of his schedule first.

S suggested that we read her "Highly Sensitive People In Love" book together. So she read part to me and we took the quiz while I did the ironing and I read to her while she made mashed potatoes. At least the beginning is rather a fluff piece and the referenced case studies actually sound like what we see here. "Husband is boring so wife falls for yoga instructor", "spouse can't hold a job and moves family all over the country". The answer it seems is to not be boring. Who woulda thunk that?

More seriously though, there are some nuggets in the book it seems. S and I chatted about our thoughts on the different topics as we went along and generally seem to be in agreement about the book being a bit fluffy but that it's a worth-while exercise to talk about our thoughts on the different issues.

------------

Just about to get D27's and her husband's separate parcels in to the mail. I'd hoped to do that this past weekend but with the extra busy having S around didn't get to it. I'm still trying to figure out what to get S25 for Christmas. Snow tires would be good but expensive and boring. He does enjoy cooking but never did use the Instant Pot I got him last christmas. He spends a lot of time listening to true crime podcasts


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
This was actually one of the large barriers to S and I considering sharing housing as while I have room for stuff, there are only 4 bedrooms so the number of people who can be accommodated is limited. Both S and I though comment that it has only been a couple of months and now that the big dopamine rush of limerence has faded somewhat I think we are being far more rational about things. On the other hand, many here would point out that I've deluded myself before into thinking that I knew what I was doing.

job has expressed the opinion that S will try to move in after the New Year. She might be right although I do actually hope not. There's still a lot of learning about each other and getting comfortable with each other that we both say that we need to do. On the other hand, job has a lot clearer perspective on things in some ways than I do.


Same modus operandi, different chick.

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Well, if you hope not, and she asks you can always say “no”

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First of all, doodler is right...the possessive of S is S's. S' indicates more than one S owns something as in that thing belongs to Susan and Sarah and Sean and Sam, whereas S's indicates that said thing only belongs to one of the S people. Yeah, I'm a scientist, but I'm a grammar nerd. Years of writing a magazine article will do that to a person. LOL

Doodler is on a roll today because I totally agree with his same MO, different lady assessment. You think you have stepped back and are taking it slow and all, but just like with B, you are barreling along. Not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with that, mind you, because you are an adult and you can make your own decisions, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are handling things differently just because the timeline isn't exactly the same. Like job, I think S will be hankering to move in after the new year, particularly now that she is down a couple of extra bodies.

I know you are Canadian, so there may be some things that are ingrained in our culture that don't quite translate to the great white north, but I'm sure those in my age bracket and older will remember First Lady Nancy Reagan's big "Just Say No" campaign against drugs in the early 80's. The phrase was everywhere. I point that out to say that like G said above, if S wants to move in and you're not ready for that, you can always follow NR's lead and "Just Say No". It is that easy, believe it or not. Don't worry, I won't waste eggs to recreate the this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs ad that was also popular at the time. LOL


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Originally Posted by doodler
Same modus operandi, different chick.
Originally Posted by Dawn70
First of all, doodler is right...the possessive of S is S's. S' indicates more than one S owns something as in that thing belongs to Susan and Sarah and Sean and Sam, whereas S's indicates that said thing only belongs to one of the S people. Yeah, I'm a scientist, but I'm a grammar nerd. Years of writing a magazine article will do that to a person. LOL

Doodler is on a roll today because I totally agree with his same MO, different lady assessment. You think you have stepped back and are taking it slow and all, but just like with B, you are barreling along. Not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with that, mind you, because you are an adult and you can make your own decisions, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you are handling things differently just because the timeline isn't exactly the same. Like job, I think S will be hankering to move in after the new year, particularly now that she is down a couple of extra bodies.
You'll never know what you'll learn here. I am now smarter about punctuation smile And doodler can now do the "doodler was right dance".

As I will often say to people "I'll stop you when you're wrong". Things are indeed moving at a very quick pace and I think that a very positive thing is that S herself has recognized this. I believe that there is a certain terror on her side of repeating the mistakes of her past which will hopefully create some breathing room. And not the heavy breathing sort. Although that's fun too.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
You'll never know what you'll learn here. I am now smarter about punctuation smile

Totally dude! We don't expect perfection; we all know that your first language is Canadian.

The funny thing that I've noticed about Canadianese is that you often speak in euphemisaphor (euphemism + metaphor). For example, pork and kraut, mashing the potatoes, beaver tail, and my favorite, poutine with whipped cream and a cherry.

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AHA! My statue of Don Quixote had been missing his sword for some time now. I've searched over and over for it and on a whim and nudge of memory this morning checked in my desk pen holder and there it was. The Knight of The Rueful Countenance is now properly armed.

That is pretty much the most exciting thing to report.

I texted 20S yesterday afternoon to get her address for her Christmas card. I was rather disappointed that she is back with her boyfriend. I chatted with her bestie a bit later when following up on a charitable donation I'd made and she said that there was no stopping her. I'm sad for her and don't agree with her choices, but she's a friend and will stay one regardless. And get her Christmas card. Sadly it means that she doesn't need all this spare furniture and misc household items that are cluttering up my house. Ah well - I have room for stuff it would seem.

I got all this year's Christmas cards written and will mail them at lunch. I've not written by hand for that long probably since last year. There's only 17 of the cards. Each with a personal note although for my two maternal uncles who I pretty much never see, they got the same note. It's an eclectic list. Mostly of old friends who I've not seen in many years who we pretty much only communicate once a year.

I did get my parcels to D27 and her H off yesterday as well. Fingers crossed that they will arrive in time. I messaged them the tracking numbers this year. I was chatting with my son-in-law's mother and mentioned that I expected her son to be really popular with his shipmates after he discovers the kazoo I put in his parcel. His mother is going to include similarly popular noise-makers in her parcel. We both expect the items to accidentally and not on purpose end up on the bottom of the Pacific within a day of them being seen.

I think D27 is ready to talk to me again. We've exchanged various messages on random topics. I'll try to call her either tomorrow or Friday. The plan is to just ignore that she stopped talking to me unless she brings it up. As back-story she was undoubtedly upset when I gave her some fatherly advice that she didn't appreciate about being careful of new male friends. I'm glad that she has reconnected. It was tough just sitting and waiting in some ways. The old lighthouse is still shining I suppose. I still think that waiting it out without putting any pressure on her was indeed the right approach and it seems to have worked out.

A comment on another thread triggered something that's been tickling in the back of my head. Yes - ex spouses do tend to pop out of the wood-work at this time of year. I just did the math and it's roughly 1,365 days since bomb-day. This will be my 4th Christmas without her. For the first 3 S25 was home with me. Last year with his mother. I've not heard from her in any meaningful fashion since November 2016 and have no idea what is going on in her life and am pretty happy about that. She's just someone I used to know with whom I share some fond memories.

Everyone told me for a long time that she would circle back. She never did. She undoubtedly knows all about S and I as the three of us of course have a number of mutual acquaintances. Perhaps if things end with OM she would but again, I doubt it. I've made comments to S25 about Christmas and the menu assuming that it will be he and I here. If his mother wants time with him on Christmas day, I've called dibs on the morning and evening at least. Not that that would stop her as she at least used to be accustomed to the world re-arranging itself for her convenience.

This will also be the first Christmas since then when I'm in a relationship. S and I won't be able to spend Christmas together even though I know she'd like to. She's off with her posse to see her Dad as usual a few hours south of here. S25 and I were invited and I declined. I will need to give her her gift (spa day for her and a bestie) prior to then.

I was in S25's room on my usual hunt for dirty dishes the other day. He's been going through a cycle of cleaning and tidying in there which is nice. I noticed on his white-board that he's set himself goals to work on every day which include getting a reasonably priced apartment and a full time job. Better physical and mental health are on the list as well and he's been rattling away on our old exercise bike regularly lately. I did mention to him the other day before I saw this that a set of apartments in the village around the corner are being renovated and are modestly priced.

I had lunch yesterday with an old friend who is very recently separated. He's not wasted any time at all in getting in to the dating scene and as a 49 year old (there-abouts) 6'2" buff executive, is dating an age appropriate professional woman. We talked about the effect of dopamine on our brains early on which is hitting him full force. I think he was happy to talk to me about how he struggles with this, wanting to be attached but also trying hard to respect the other person's need for space. I assured him that it will pass and that he'll get his brain back reasonably soon. I do think that I'm somewhat over the limerence stage with S at this point myself as while I am very happy to spend time with her and to hear from her, I don't get that rush that I used to and I spend less time agonizing over if she is really actually interested in me.

Time to refill the tea-pot and get to work. S's (proper apostrophe use!) S12's dad is without a car still so I'm going over there to take him to his martial arts class after work and spend some time. Usually he'd be with his dad on Wednesday nights and S had been intending on spending every Wednesday night here. Not working out that way though.


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Blech! S mentioned to me in passing that my ex-wife announced on social media that she's got plane tickets to go see her daughter. I don't know why this bothers me. It's good that she's doing that. I asked S to not tell me anything she hears which she easily agreed to.

We spent some time trying to organize December. It's going to be tricky with at least 5 distinct family groupings involved. This weekend there's a festival to go to that we are all looking forward to (S25 probably won't come), the village Christmas parade, a really long car service appointment (getting a trailer hitch installed), pick up S's Christmas present, and all the usual running around and stuff. I'm trying to just go with the flow.

S's boys seem to be getting pretty comfortable with me being around. S17 helped me with some minor home repairs and furniture moving at their apartment. S12 seemed perfectly fine with getting a ride with me and his mother to his martial arts class and my being there with S to take him home after. The dog has very much adopted me and is very excited when I visit and immediately claims my lap as soon as I sit down. One of the two cats has also deigned to sit with me. The other one is perhaps far too cool for that.

I did reach out to my D27 to see if she would be available for a call tonight or tomorrow as I drive home from work. Given the three hour time difference it may be a while before I hear back. It's been just over 2 months since we last talked. We would usually talk every few weeks. I expect to hear nothing about her mother's upcoming visit. It will be nice to catch up - assuming she takes my call. I did notice that she's locked down my visibility into her social media. Probably just out of spite.

Why oh why am I affected by the mere existence of my ex-wife. Trauma I suppose. A touch of jealousy as well undoubtedly.

Well - work calls.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Why oh why am I affected by the mere existence of my ex-wife.

It's because you're not thinking about more important things like sailboats and sailing.

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Andrew,
This recipe will win S's kids approval no matter how old they are..

It is very popular and in high demand around here. It is my secret recipe to spoil my co-workers and the staff at the coffee shop i go to. ( keep it secret )..lol

Mini sugar cones

2 cups of brown sugar
I can of Eagle Brand condensed milk ( 300 ml. )
1/3 cup of corn syrup
1 cup of margarine
1 cup of mini marshmallow

Mix sugar, milk, syrup and marg. In a microweavable bowl.
Microwave for 8 minutes while mixing at every 2 minutes.

Add marshmallows. Mix well and microwave for 1 more minute.

Poor in mini ice cream cones. Gives you around 60 cones.

SURPRISINGLY DELICIOUS!!!!

Doodler, let see what you will have to say about this one!! Lol

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Thanks exquisitetobe. That's a new one to me.

Just a quick drive-by this morning. I've been spending time here and there like it's going out of fashion. I'm more than a bit behind on my house-work but of course most people coming in wouldn't see that. I'm also running a bit short on sleep trying to fit everything in.

In some ways I'm looking forward to a Christmas break with S being away with her family 3 hours away for a few days and I only have my own schedule to worry about.

Spent yesterday evening with S and her two boys. She made us all a nice dinner which for a change everyone ate together. I think that I'm being more accepted by the boys. S12 - as such kids will do - brought out the metaphorical inquisitor's rack and asked me blunt questions which I think somewhat embarrassed his mother. Essentially he questioned me on the things that he didn't like about his mother's STBX. I believe I passed. Also, we're going to a Christmas festival later today and he wanted to know if I would be paying. I answered honestly, seriously and with a sense of humour. The kid deserves to be taken seriously.

S17 who has a lot of anxiety issues and uses an emotional support bunny brought said hasenpfeffer out and more or less dumped it on my lap for a while. We had a nice visit. I've not been exposed to a pet rabbit before. Very cute critters. S's small dog trapped me on the couch by sitting behind me and putting her head on my shoulder and not wanting to move. One of the cats blocked me in from the other side.

We watched some Christmas movies together (boys wandered in and out and heckled the movies) and drank hot cocoa.

Today I need to start my ironing to get that done before I meet S at 11:00 for brunch. We'll do some Christmas shopping (one of my presents to her is that I will help with filling the stockings which she's excited about us doing together). Then some decorating at her place, picking up S17 from his job and off to the festival then back here for a roast pork dinner that I need to put in the slow cooker before I leave. This will be the first time the boys have been here. S25 was given a preliminary heads-up yesterday which I'll leave him a note to confirm.

So many moving parts ....

As an aside, despite what most people might think of me and in some ways what I think of myself, I'm enjoying just going along with the flow. One of the reasons for that is that things just seem to "work out" with S and our adventures somehow. A good example is last night. I was a bit bummed because we would be going to the festival and I would miss my village's Christmas parade. Well - after dinner last night, what happened outside S's apartment window, but a lovely parade for her town. We stood there and watched it from her window, waving to people who didn't see us, dancing to the music from the marchers and of course yelling "Hi Santa!" to the jolly old gent himself. So - I got my parade. It wasn't the one I had intended on, but it still happened.

Well - no rest for the boyfriend it seems.


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You seem to be spending a huge amount of time together, especially with her boys.

Those boys however are surely sizing you up to see how long you are sticking around for a long time. I think they already assume your are the next in line. They know how their mom works

I think I need to take a lesson from S. She sure knows how to lock a man and make him a part of the family super fast!!!

Remember, it’s okay if the boyfriend takes a rest.

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And I also meant to say.....

The flow you are following is the super fast flow of S’s. No need to fool us or fool yourself

As long as you are happy and you are careful with those boys, especially the 12 year old, I’m happy for you. And I’m sure you’ll be careful with them.

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Originally Posted by Ginger1
I think I need to take a lesson from S. She sure knows how to lock a man and make him a part of the family super fast!!!
LOL. I think that it might not work on the average guy off the street.

Originally Posted by Ginger1
You seem to be spending a huge amount of time together, especially with her boys.

Those boys however are surely sizing you up to see how long you are sticking around for a long time. I think they already assume your are the next in line. They know how their mom works

And I also meant to say.....

The flow you are following is the super fast flow of S’s. No need to fool us or fool yourself

As long as you are happy and you are careful with those boys, especially the 12 year old, I’m happy for you. And I’m sure you’ll be careful with them.


Originally Posted by Ginger1
Remember, it’s okay if the boyfriend takes a rest.
I'm bloody exhausted after that weekend. S has also made it plain that she really wants me to spend more time with her and her family at her place. I've made noises that I'm falling behind on my own stuff at home. Trying to figure that out. I do believe that I am stopping by her apartment after work tonight to move some heavy items for her. I think that I could really use about 11 hours of un-interrupted sleep, a nice hot soak in my tub and a couple of glasses of wine. Maybe Tuesday night.

I still don't have my Christmas tree up but the rest of the decorating has been done. I'm going to try to get my tree on Wednesday at lunch time. There is some outside stuff that at this point just ain't gonna happen I think. On the other hand, I'm way ahead of S on that although I did pull her boxes out of storage for her.

Sunday was a success although a bit surreal. I was talking with S25 about it later and how odd it was for me to be out at the festival essentially as part of a family of 6 when it's been a "lot" of years since I was even part of a family of 4. One vendor referred to me as "Dad" as I paid for everyone's treats. We never bothered to correct him.

There was one rather surreal event which given that this is small town Ontario wasn't a surprise. We got to the festival and looked around for the shuttle buses from the parking area. That was when I realized what company probably provided the buses. Then when the bus door opened, there was the owner of the bus company and I said "Hi Ken" to B's brother in law and loaded up my crew. I made sure to let S know about the connection which made her smile I think and also to get much more proprietary. So - I'm sure that the 100+ decendents of B's mother along with her mother herself now know that I'm dating a red-head with a bunch of kids including quite young ones (S12 has some sort of development issue so that he has the brain of a 12 year old in what appears to be a 5 year old's body). S17 looks about 12 at least to me.

The original plan for the weekend had us going to the festival on Saturday and that Sunday would have been just me at home doing my usual Sunday thing. Chores, cleaning, making dinner and watching the village parade. "The best laid plans gang aft agley" as Robbie Burns would say.

S's D18 was a bit put out I believe when she found out that there was a roast pork dinner that she and her boyfriend and dog hadn't been invited to. The boys were less than thrilled to come but were fine once they found the TV remote. They were also very surprised by eating in a formal dining room with wine glasses (sparkling apple juice) and a laid out table with separate serving dishes. This caused a discussion among the boys of the last time they had had such a formal meal - Thanksgiving was their consensus. The fact that it's "normal" at my house I think is just weird to them. S assisted in making sure that her boys' particular finickiness was accounted for and S25 made the buns (Pillsbury) that S's S17 was "very" happy about. S25 seemed comfortable at the table as well which was a relief and not a surprise at all.

Overall a great success. Everyone was fed and ate their fill - pretty much no leftovers. I got them home and then started the dishes. It was after 11:00 before I got in to bed. The 5:30 alarm (I get to sleep extra on Mondays) was very unwelcome.

S is making noises about coming over on Christmas Day as her family does their thing on Christmas Eve and it would be just her and her Dad. I've been trying to push back on that as I would really like to spend Christmas Day with just S25 and to also enjoy some Christmas libation. We'll see.

I do need to figure out how to get some sleep and how to get more stuff done at home. It feels like I've been burning the candle at both ends for the last month.

S can certainly use my help and I do understand that she feels slighted by the fact that - yes - I do prefer to be in my own space. I just need to figure out how to balance that. I am confident that she's aware as it is something that we have openly discussed.

Well - enough for now. Got to try to stay awake.


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Andrew,

Do you not know how to use the word "no"? It appears that you are over there doing stuff for her quite a bit and as you have admitted, you are getting behind on the things that you need to do at your house. Okay, I might be nit picking here, but what was the problem with her and the older kids not chipping in to do the dishes last evening? After all, you provided the dinner, the place and yes, the plates, silverware and glasses for the meal. I hate to say this, but you are entirely too soft when it comes to stepping up to the plate and telling her that you need your own me time to get things done. BTW, what would she have done if you hadn't gotten involved w/her? She and the kids would have survived and figured out how to rearrange and clean their space on their own.

Andrew, please step back and carve out some "me" time and if you would prefer to spend Christmas day w/your own son, then by all means do it. S and her dad can find something to do on their own for the day.

I hate to say this, but I can see where she's getting entirely too comfortable too fast and is using you to get everything done at her place. Maybe it's time that you ask her to help you out over at your place a bit. It's a two way street and what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

S may be a really nice woman, but she's taking advantage of your good nature. From where I'm sitting, looks like you may become her potential husband #4 and/or her moving in w/you after the holidays. Be careful on committing to do things if you are tired or just need to have down time and get your own things done.

She'll respect you more if you say "no" once in a while and be honest and tell her you need some rest and/or get your own chores done.


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The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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I'll stop you when you're wrong job. Thanks for sitting on my shoulder and whacking me with a stick wink

I will admit that I was happy to get "my space" back after dinner and take care of the kitchen the way that I like to do it. As I learned with B - I do have challenges in letting go of some things with my kitchen being one of them.


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In a matter of months she has managed to make you like a husband and father. She is treating you exactly as such. She has 2 boys at home who can do the heavy lifting. They should have helped clean up. And you are paying for everyone too!!

Like job says. You need to learn the word “no”!

I think I sat family is her MO with a guy doing most things for her and her kids.

But I think you know all of this. But you have to find the strength to speak up

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I agree with the others fwiw.

When we were forced to take this ‘journey’ thrusted upon us, we came across this place.

By doing so we learned that we had the “gift of time” as Cadet posted.

You have always said that you felt you were a possession of your x, and that you didn’t really speak up for yourself.

You Also learned through your journey that you like your own space (I know I did!).

I hate to say this.....but it sounds like you are in danger of going down this route all over again.

Come on Andrew.....speak up, she will respect you more if you do.

As women......we know this wink

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Hello Andrew

The ability to say no, where and when appropriate is an excellent quality to have.

To analyze, which is a thing you and I do seem to enjoy, you are feeling a bit too engaged and would like a little more down time or Andrew-time; Christmas for example. Talk with S and let her know. If she really cannot handle that or gets upset, best you find out now instead of later. I do suspect she will more respect you and your need for a little Andrew-time, FWIW.

Originally Posted by Westo
...speak up, she will respect you more if you do.

And you will respect you more as well.

DnJ


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Andrew,

This is a preemptive, and slightly piratesque post. I just wanted to respond to your next post before it’s actually posted.

First, you’re a carousing scallywag and a filthy wretch. Second, you keep your son locked up in chambers all day so that all he can do is draw stick figures with large genitalia. That’s just weird. Third, you get a little taste of booty and then you just want more and more, so much so that you can’t say the word “no” to the keeper of the booty. Forth, you like poutine. What more needs to be said?

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doodler.....

You never fail to give me a giggle!

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Thanks all. I've been cogitating for a while now. I actually had a conversation with S the other day where I mentioned that one of the things I loved about our relationship was the feeling of "belonging to her". It was something that I found comfort in in my marriage as well. Perhaps it's the organized neat freak in me that thinks that everything needs it's "tidy spot" wink

Re-reading before posting - kind of rambly disjointed posting today. It's the way my brain works. Random facts and thoughts stir around before congealing.

One of the mistakes I think I made with B was pushing through and waiting for things to "get better". Believing that if only I was patient enough that whatever was an issue would blow over. This was also a mistake I made with my now ex after bomb-day. On the other hand, I do believe that patience is an important part of making a relationship work.

S and I have talked about this multiple times in the context of our past relationships. On how waiting for things to change / hoping that they'll change set us up for unhappiness.

My ex was very controlling. I couldn't break wind without prior permission and if I did I was made to feel guilty about it. I don't want to end up in a situation like that again. I don't get that same sort of vibe out of S. With B I was constantly checking in / out. She'd want to know when I got to work, when I left, where I was going, who I was with. My ex also needed to know pretty much down to the minute where I was. I do know that after her affair started that it was helpful for her in scheduling her extra-curricular activities. With S we usually text a good morning around lunch and a good night before I go to bed. We have vague knowledge of each other's movements.

I think that in some ways we define what we want out of a relationship within the context of what we didn't like about our past ones.

There's a quote out of Lord of the Rings that I think describes well what both S and I are worried about. I've shared it with her and I think it apt for both of us
Originally Posted by JRR Tolkien
Aragorn: What do you fear, my lady?
Eowyn: A cage.

In S's last marriage she says that she wasn't allowed to redecorate or personalize their home. Any suggestion she would make was received with a grunt and then if she went ahead she was stopped. Because I've been in my home for pretty much my entire adult life, this is a big fear of her's here. I had something similar.

A deliberate choice that I've made - which has become surprisingly easy now that I've made that choice - is to as much as possible to live in the moment and to accept both the world around me and the S that is in that world. As anyone who has walked beside me on my journey especially in the early days (waves to job and Westo) knows what a departure that is for me. S has talked a lot about the changes she wants to make in her own situation which I've not shared here. She is very ambitious and I am doing my best to be supportive. Being more of a cheerleader than an enabler. I have though made the choice to accept the present that is in front of me. As the ancient philosopher Janis Joplin once said
Originally Posted by Janis Joplin
"...I mean, if you got a cat for one day, man — I mean, if you, say, say, if you want a cat for 365 days, right — You ain't got him for 365 days, you got him for one day, man. Well I tell you that one day, man, better be your life, man. Because, you know, you can say, oh man, you can cry about the other 364, man, but you're gonna lose that one day, man, and that's all you've got. You gotta call that love, man. That's what it is, man. If you got it today you don't want it tomorrow, man, 'cause you don't need it, 'cause as a matter of fact, as we discovered in the train, tomorrow never happens, man. It's all the same [bad word] day, man."

I do need to make sure that I don't lose myself here. I've only re-discovered myself in recent years and I do quite like this guy. I also need to navigate to being a healthy supportive partner. Neither S nor I have much experience in having someone who has our back and that we can count on. This makes it tough for both of us to let go and share the load and to accept help. We are used to accommodating and being the one who give in.

This isn't easy. There are no easy answers. Recognizing the issues and examining them is a necessary first step. We're working on it. It won't be solved quickly.

Thanks all.

PS - I'd had a discussion at the plant on how we're having problems getting someone to work at some of the more mundane jobs as most of the staff are stationary engineers or aspire to be. One of the roles actually may be a good fit for S25. I talked to him first and then the foreman. S25 is going to apply. It's a good blue-collar job - straight days, decent pay, stable and makes good use of S25's aptitude for being meticulous. Fingers crossed. I did my part by getting the connection made. It's up to S25 to follow through now.


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Originally Posted by doodler

Andrew,

This is a preemptive, and slightly piratesque post. I just wanted to respond to your next post before it’s actually posted.

First, you’re a carousing scallywag and a filthy wretch. Second, you keep your son locked up in chambers all day so that all he can do is draw stick figures with large genitalia. That’s just weird. Third, you get a little taste of booty and then you just want more and more, so much so that you can’t say the word “no” to the keeper of the booty. Forth, you like poutine. What more needs to be said?
'Morning doodler!

Oh - I noticed that Trader Joe's has a Turkey and Stuffing potato chip. And you think our poutine is weird??


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Oh - I noticed that Trader Joe's has a Turkey and Stuffing potato chip. And you think our poutine is weird??


Trader Joe's is owned by a German family. Originally they wanted a pickled herring and sauerkraut flavored potato chip, but settled for the turkey and stuffing instead.

And that kind of sums things up for Americans who want to travel overseas; it seems like everyone is a foreigner and they speak funky languages and eat weird food. When we go to Tonga, by golly, we should be able to get a cheese burger and fries. What gives?

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
My ex was very controlling. I couldn't break wind without prior permission and if I did I was made to feel guilty about it. I don't want to end up in a situation like that again. I don't get that same sort of vibe out of S. With B I was constantly checking in / out. She'd want to know when I got to work, when I left, where I was going, who I was with. My ex also needed to know pretty much down to the minute where I was. I do know that after her affair started that it was helpful for her in scheduling her extra-curricular activities. With S we usually text a good morning around lunch and a good night before I go to bed. We have vague knowledge of each other's movements.

Andrew,

There's lots of reflection and contemplation in your last post. That's a good thing. I'm glad that you seem to be slowing down and thinking through things.

In my opinion, even if B didn't have a lot of negative extenuating circumstances (i.e. her personal life), she wasn't a very good match for you. Everything was forced. I think S is more compatible with you. I think you and S have more in common, but the fact that she's still married, has been married three times, and has a lot of familial baggage are significant hurtles in the relationship. Take your time. If you get into a long term relationship with S you'll likely have to help with college expenses and other issues that go along with having children around. Love and relationships are wonderful, but you have to be prepared to deliver the goods when things get rough. Yes, their dad is supposed to help take care of that stuff, but things don't always go as planned. It's not a responsibility to take lightly.

By the way, you should check out the Radical Bay 8000. It's interesting. They call it a biplane rig. It's similar to the home built cat that you mentioned a while ago.

Unrestrained broken wind is a wonderful thing, no?

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It almost seems as if you saying you like “belonging” to her, she might have taken that too literally.

You kind of danced around what we said and you may not be choosing to address it, but do you feel you are having a hard time saying “no”? Why do you think that is? Are scared of losing her?

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Originally Posted by doodler
Third, you get a little taste of booty and then you just want more and more, so much so that you can’t say the word “no” to the keeper of the booty.
Don't all pirates want booty?

Originally Posted by doodler
Originally Posted by AndrewP
My ex was very controlling. I couldn't break wind without prior permission and if I did I was made to feel guilty about it. I don't want to end up in a situation like that again. I don't get that same sort of vibe out of S. With B I was constantly checking in / out. She'd want to know when I got to work, when I left, where I was going, who I was with. My ex also needed to know pretty much down to the minute where I was. I do know that after her affair started that it was helpful for her in scheduling her extra-curricular activities. With S we usually text a good morning around lunch and a good night before I go to bed. We have vague knowledge of each other's movements.

Andrew,

There's lots of reflection and contemplation in your last post. That's a good thing. I'm glad that you seem to be slowing down and thinking through things.

In my opinion, even if B didn't have a lot of negative extenuating circumstances (i.e. her personal life), she wasn't a very good match for you. Everything was forced. I think S is more compatible with you. I think you and S have more in common, but the fact that she's still married, has been married three times, and has a lot of familial baggage are significant hurtles in the relationship. Take your time. If you get into a long term relationship with S you'll likely have to help with college expenses and other issues that go along with having children around. Love and relationships are wonderful, but you have to be prepared to deliver the goods when things get rough. Yes, their dad is supposed to help take care of that stuff, but things don't always go as planned. It's not a responsibility to take lightly or to pretend doesn't exist.

By the way, you should check out the Radical Bay 8000. It's interesting. They call it a biplane rig. It's similar to the home built cat that you mentioned a while ago.

Unrestrained broken wind is a wonderful thing, no?

I've done some reading on the law around minor aged children and responsibilities. It is indeed possible / likely given the circumstances that I would be on the hook for some educational expenses for S12. The university that I attended had specific forms that a step-parent - which common law without adoption still counts as far as they are concerned - needs to fill out to be exempted from the income calculation. I expect that is pretty representative of the norm. The boy's natural father is a bit of a flake but has been pretty consistent in meeting and at times exceeding his obligations to his offspring. But certainly something to consider.

I looked at the Sail Magazine article on the Radical Bay and some of the issues that they mentioned brought to mind similar challenges for the old square riggers. Sailing one of those or the Radical Bay would require a lot more thought about air-flow and how to set sails than I've seen with the average sailor who just hauls in the mainsheet, tightens the boom vang and thinks that makes them go fast. If you look at a square rigger running before the wind, they will never set all the sails because of them interfering with each other. PS - if you are looking for a great "picture book" - and this is for OwnIt too if she's following along - The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor is a beautifully illustrated guide to square rigs. I have the Lee Valley edition myself which doesn't seem to exist any more. I have two editions of The Manual of Seamanship for Boys and Seamen. One a reprint of the 1904 version and another an original from around 1910 or so that I found in a used bookshop quite a few years ago. Fascinating (to me) stuff.

I do highly recommend a browse through Lee Valley's classic reprint series if you are shopping for a boy who loves to tinker and read. Getting a bit close to the big day now though for online ordering I would think.

S and I had an awkward conversation over dinner last night about our separate and joint needs on being able to get stuff done for ourselves. And also about the fact that we've not been spending any time lately going on Adventures. No immediate resolution as we jointly tried to compromise and accommodate the other person. For those who suggest that her kids could be helping out more - have you ever "tried" to get a teenager to go above and beyond? LOL The kids - on both sides - are being great and do help out more than may well be the average. I think in part that S is at a state where she feels that she "finally" has some decent help and wants to make good use of it. It's a difficult situation. We are talking about it openly and navigating as best we can.

I do agree that B wasn't as good of a match for me as S is. I do still think that it could have worked, but do know that it wouldn't have worked well. There was a fascinating discussion on another thread by Ginger1 about how many guys have an expectation that a new partner will just slot themselves in to their lives seamlessly. This is undoubtedly the case for many women as well - like B who it seemed was trying to turn me in to a more acceptable version of her STBX. I know that one of my frustrations there was that she didn't fit in to my ordered and somewhat eclectic life. Lesson taken - hopefully learned. And also hopefully, nothing but good out of it for both B and I. While I know nothing about what is going on in her life, the fact that her brother-in-law seemed genuinely happy to see me on Sunday could well indicate that there are no hard feelings on that side either.

S on the other hand has been very open about the fact that one of the big things she hated about her life with her STBX was the fact that she felt very constrained in having to live as and how her husband dictated and the passive aggressive way he had of minimizing her and enforcing his vision of the home. Again - something to be very cognizant of. Letting go of how things "are" to embrace "what could be" is part of the process. For everyone I would think.

Going to try to make this thread last until the New Year. Wish me luck.

I find it in some ways kind of funny that at least "on paper" that the best match I've run in to was CL. Smart, sassy, good income, well read, significant common interests not to mention very pretty and with a charitable heart. But I think we would all agree that she wasn't a fit either for reasons that we all discussed almost exactly a year ago.


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Originally Posted by Ginger1
You kind of danced around what we said and you may not be choosing to address it, but do you feel you are having a hard time saying “no”? Why do you think that is? Are scared of losing her?
I'm a conflict avoidant, people pleasing rescuer.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Originally Posted by Ginger1
You kind of danced around what we said and you may not be choosing to address it, but do you feel you are having a hard time saying “no”? Why do you think that is? Are scared of losing her?
I'm a conflict avoidant, people pleasing rescuer.


Well, duh, I knew that already!

Have you gotten down to why you are a conflict avoidant people pleaser?

Are you content as such? Does it benefit you? Does it hurt you? Are you making strides towards changing that so you don’t lose yourself and become stuck in the same traps?

Because if nothing changes, well, then, nothing changes.

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Going to try to make this thread last until the New Year. Wish me luck.


Good luck! Did you know these threads are free?

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Originally Posted by doodler
Did you know these threads are free?


laugh I lol'd.

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Originally Posted by AndrewP
S and I had an awkward conversation over dinner last night about our separate and joint needs on being able to get stuff done for ourselves. And also about the fact that we've not been spending any time lately going on Adventures. No immediate resolution as we jointly tried to compromise and accommodate the other person. For those who suggest that her kids could be helping out more - have you ever "tried" to get a teenager to go above and beyond? LOL The kids - on both sides - are being great and do help out more than may well be the average. I think in part that S is at a state where she feels that she "finally" has some decent help and wants to make good use of it. It's a difficult situation. We are talking about it openly and navigating as best we can.


This is a rhetorical comment on what you said, so don't feel obligated to even say anything in response if you don't want to, but something really stuck out to me about what you said above, particularly the first part about having an awkward conversation about separate and joint needs. In my opinion (and that is ALL it is....MY opinion....not asking you or anyone else to agree, but just strikes me odd), if that particular conversation was awkward coming from her end, that is a bit of a red flag. I mean, you are both adults and you have both been married before and single before, so surely a grown woman with children (particularly children who still live at home and require a modicum of her attention) would be not only understanding of but appreciative of someone who wants and needs alone time and wants and needs to allow her that as well, if/when she needs it. I'm sure S is a lovely woman but I get the sense that she is someone who does not do well alone (as in without a man by her side). She's been married several times and is actually still currently married, if I'm not mistaken, though has been separated for a long time. Or maybe I'm getting my stories confused with B, but my point here is she seems to kind of be all-consuming in her need and demands on your time and that really isn't fair to you or her. I get that you are a rescuer, so you like to feel like you are helping her and you are needed and she is likely very good at making you feel like the big strapping man who is her knight in shining armor. I was actually thinking of you and S this morning as I had to ride into town with Sparky again to pick up my truck from the mechanic. Sparky is currently driving a truck that actually belongs to my dad as we look for a 2nd vehicle. We can't share one because we work in 2 different towns in opposite directions. I mentioned to him, kind of in passing, that this weekend, I would appreciate it if he would check the oil in the truck because my dad is absolutely meticulous about that. I also said, I probably needed to check the oil in my own truck at some point too since I haven't checked it in a couple of weeks. He kind of laughed and commented that I meant HE needed to check the oil in my truck too. I responded "well, you ARE the man and isn't that why I keep you around...to do the manly things?" He shot back "just like I keep you around to do the womanly things." We laughed, but the reality of our situation is that I was raised to be a very strong and independent person and I don't rely on a man to check my oil or anything else. I handle it. I don't get the sense that S does that much, if she can help it. I get the sense she plays the female card and that is ok because that is kind of what you respond to. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying that is a bad thing because as was just pointed out on another thread everyone has different criteria for what works for them and what doesn't. My point to all of this rambling is that I think you should just continue to reflect and contemplate and have those discussion because I would hate for you to lose yourself in the process of saving S. You should totally be there for her and help her, but carve out time for yourself as well.

As far as your comment about getting a teenager to do anything and that is likely why S doesn't rely more on her kids, well, that is on her. Yes, teenagers are a HUGE pain to get to cooperate with ANYTHING, but it CAN be done. One just has to stick to their guns. And, besides, when it all comes down to brass tacks, she is still the parent so she can pull the old "grounded from the video game" or whatever to get cooperation if necessary. I wasn't above taking cell phones and car keys when the girls balked too much at what I needed them to do for me when they lived at home. It's a pain in the @ss, but it can be done. One just has to grit their teeth and bear it.


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Originally Posted by doodler
Good luck! Did you know these threads are free?
Then why have I been sending job a batch of peanut butter and cashew cookies whenever I start a new thread? Hmmmm???

Originally Posted by Dawn70
This is a rhetorical comment on what you said, so don't feel obligated to even say anything in response if you don't want to
Thanks Dawn. I appreciate you taking the time to stop by.

Just like any of us, S has a complex past. I personally believe that with multiple failed marriages and a couple of relationships in between there have been two things that she's taken a hit on. Self-confidence and trust in others. The fact that she's willing to take a chance with me is very flattering and I intend to not let her down.

We are both accustomed to being the person in a relationship that gets things done, takes responsibility etc. We are also both accustomed to having our own needs and wants minimized. Mix is that having been on our own, we are reluctant to give up the freedom and responsibility of doing things on our own. As contradictory as that may sound given my other comments.

The awkwardness comes in because we both don't want our own needs to be minimized at the expense of the other while at the same time we want to be supportive and accommodating to the other person. It sometimes ends up in a situation very reminiscent of the vultures in Disney's Jungle Book - "what do you want / no - what do you want ....".

We've openly acknowledged this multiple times.

It's also combined with the reality that before we met that we both had rather full schedules in very different ways. S fits in some part time work etc with a rather large set of medical and other appointments for her cadre along with trying to keep a household running on not quite a shoe string, but more than a shoe aglet. For my part, I have built a set of routines around 14 hour work days (including travel) plus busy weekends doing my best impression of Felix Unger (you're old if you get that reference smile ).

It will work out I'm sure. It will just take compromise, effort and patience. Especially right now when so much is going on on her side with Christmas etc. The fact that we acknowledge this as an issue and are discussing it even if awkwardly is in my books a positive thing.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Then why have I been sending job a batch of peanut butter and cashew cookies whenever I start a new thread? Hmmmm???


Because you're a conflict avoiding, people pleasing rescuer. wink

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Just a grumble on a Friday the 13th.

I need to send out the monthly "cheque" to my ex-wife on or before the 15th of the month which is this Sunday. I always send it early and since this weekend will be busy I decided to send it this morning while on break. No matter how early I send it, she only picks it up ON the 15th and on rare occasions the day or so after. "Never" early for reasons that I don't bother to try to understand.

While thinking about it last night and again, especially when sending it, I felt really really annoyed. I tried writing about it in my diary but decided that I wanted to vent even more and not just down a bucket where no-one hears.

It's just not "fair". Yes - that horrible 4 letter word that begins with F. She blew up our family, destroying me in the process and undoubtedly harming the children in ways that will scar them for life. I have no clue on what is going on with her life thanks to the fact that I no longer get fed things by my sister in law (long story) and am better for that I'm sure. I do hear the occasional thing but it's rare and by people who only know her peripherally.

Is she happy with the choices that she made? Is her life full of shiny puppy kisses with her guy? Does she ever look back in the rear-view and regret? At times, I even wonder if I'd sucked it up and hung on if she would have "come to her senses"?

I no longer feel the need to worry about her or even to contemplate a rescue and haven't for some time. If she were to knock on my door with a broken down car, I'd let her use the telephone, but if she were ill in the hospital I wouldn't visit nor send a card.

It's annoying though. I have to pay and pay and pay for something that I had no control over. I would presume that she has no actual need for the money that I send either. Her guy has lots and she has a decent income already. But it was the price that was agreed upon and I am a man of my word. I'm now over 1/3 of the way to the end of those payments at least.

As most of us over on this side of the wall will agree, my life is overall better without her than with her. Especially having avoided the stress and drama that would have been involved with a reconciliation attempt. I am at the point and have been for some time where I absolutely don't want her back. Last year at this time I believe I would have had a level of weakness on that matter. Perhaps it's because of the fact that I have had and do have some serious romance (and a surprising amount of booty) going on. Have to be honest after all. But even without that, I really can't see myself making room in my life for the person that she was when she left and who undoubtedly she still is to a large extent. I fully expect that she has a vague narrative that she believes in and tells people about how she was "unhappy". I can't see her ever facing the reality that I remember - and have evidence of somewhere - and really there is no reason for her to do so. It may bother her from time to time - who knows. It would certainly drive me mad but then again, I have too little imagination to lie to myself for a sustained period of time.

Whether she did suffer a "crisis" or not is certainly open for debate. I absolutely believed in that back in 2016. I certainly had my own dealing with the fall-out. I've healed - more or less - and I think it's reasonable to assume that she has as well. Those who were positive that she would have a change of heart and who encouraged me to be steadfast and true have either been proven wrong, or were working on a different time scale than myself.

It's I suppose unsurprising that the anger re-surfaces at this time of the year. A time when families get together to share their love with each other. This year, I expect that S25 and I will celebrate Christmas alone together. D27 still hasn't fully resumed communication with me. I asked her if she was up to a phone call last week and got no reply and she's partially blocked me on social media. The latter may be because as I heard through the grape-vine (I do still get some news) that her mother had flown down to San Diego to visit. Something I should have done myself but since she wasn't talking to me, I didn't want to intrude.

On the subject of me being destroyed ....
Originally Posted by Monty Python
V: What makes you think she is a witch?
P2: Well, she turned me into a newt!
V: A newt?!
(P2 pause & look around)
P2: I got better.
(pause)
P3: Burn her anyway! (burn her burn her burn!)


I have a busy weekend planned. Going to spend my first overnight with S at her apartment. Her 3 youngest are off with their dad on Saturday for Christmas with his family so we'll have the place to ourselves, along with 2 cats, 2 dogs (one belonging to D18), 3 rabbits and some fish. We're going to split the weekend between the two places so that we can each get stuff done and help each other with it. And spend time together just hanging out. There may be nookie.

S25 is out working at the pub on Sunday night. But with the critters, especially the dogs needing care, feeding and attention, I don't know how late S will stay and I'm not sure when her boys will be getting home. XH#2 is notoriously unreliable with schedules. And I don't want to subject "my girls" to the dogs just yet.

Oh - and S's dog does insist on kissing me when she sees me so I get shiny puppy kisses from her. We'll probably watch the classic Christmas Carol starring Alastair Sims. There are so many great performances by solid character actors such as Hermione Baddeley in it along with an exceptionally hammed up performance by Michael Hordern as the Ghost of Marley. I may also try to persuade her to watch the Black Adder Christmas Carol which has an appearance of Robbie Coltrain in what would be a very familiar costume to some.

Maybe I'll do up sugar cookies to pay for my next thread ...


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Now see, I bet this is the kind of stuff your band of fearless women are going to want to see you mulling. It was not fair. Not in any stretch of the imagination. If I had to pay OD on top of everything he has done, I don't think I could have handled it.

Set it up for an automatic transfer on the 15th and forget all about it. When or whether she picks it up or whatever. Don't let her have this last trigger of care for you.

Your D had that ticky tacky moment where she knows you spoke bibles full of truth and she couldn't handle it in the moment. In the future, I imagine she will express her gratitude to you for the warning and for undertaking a difficult conversation. I tend to speak to my kids about us making it safe to talk to each other about difficult things. Both sides need to be able to do that.

Thank you so much, I bought the Young Officer's book and the beautiful knot book arrived shortly after you mentioned it.

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Good Morning Andrew

Mulling and reflecting. And the unfairness of it all.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I need to send out the monthly "cheque" to my ex-wife on or before the 15th of the month which is this Sunday. I always send it early and since this weekend will be busy I decided to send it this morning while on break. No matter how early I send it, she only picks it up ON the 15th and on rare occasions the day or so after. "Never" early for reasons that I don't bother to try to understand.

While thinking about it last night and again, especially when sending it, I felt really really annoyed. I tried writing about it in my diary but decided that I wanted to vent even more and not just down a bucket where no-one hears.

It's just not "fair". Yes - that horrible 4 letter word that begins with F. She blew up our family, destroying me in the process and undoubtedly harming the children in ways that will scar them for life.

I can understand feeling annoyed. Writing and venting, it out here is going to garner feedback and ideas. Something I figure you are wanting, or you would just explore it in a diary.

I like Own’s suggestion of prescheduled payments. That certainly would remove the physical reinforcement of this monthly, and short term, ritual. However, I think you are like me in that you like to be involved, or control, your financial transactions. The downside is to have control or involvement mean you are involved. Of course you are involved so really it is about letting go of something else.

This is a finite short term arrangement or situation. I forget where you are - xx of yy - the on going transaction count down. There is an end to the financial outlay of upfront cash for future financial peace.

It is other peace you are seeking. Will it happen when xx = yy? The final memo reads - yy of yy. Pop goes the champagne. Etc... Feeling of fairness is still unlikely I am guessing. Feeling celebratory is likely. Lasting - I don’t know. At any rate, why wait for then?

Yes. It feels unfair. Undoubtedly. Your XW did destroy your life (and her’s), and probably harmed the kids. I do believe all of you (except XW) are on good paths and healing very well. You will have scars for life, which will fade in time. The growth and wisdom from those scar inducing events will remain and does alter you and your kids - for life, in such a positive way. I really believe that. People’s journey can head to places better and better, if they want too. My God, I had lost that for what seemed like such a long time.

Letting go. Forgiving. Living in peace with your situation. It hinges around ego. Our self that needs to be right. Is judgemental. Is a strong voice in the writing of one’s story. The voice of unfairness that speaks and seeks to make right.

Of course one’s ego is important. Self worth, self confidence, self-esteem... well one’s self, you get the idea. You don’t let go of you. It is more recognizing the affect one’s ego is having and letting go of the pressures being applied by one’s own self. Deep inner work going on there.

My own unfair settlement was a lump sum payment. Yes it was far less than half of our combined assets, however that would’ve required complete liquidation of said assets to fund. The settled upon lump sum completely drain all solvent accounts and then some, well actually a lot more than some. I’m still in debt, and we were above board, home-free, and on easy street.

Was it fair? Ah such a question. And the very thing you are grappling to find rational peace with. Fairness.

As I said before it feels unfair. And it is. Trying to make it feel fair won’t work, and fights your ego every failing step of the way.

It is unfair - in your favour.

I repeat - in your favour.

People see other’s situations usually more clearly than there own. So let’s use my obvious example. I have the house, the contents, the kids, the dogs, the cars, etc... (and the debt from payout) and she ran off with OM and a bag of money.

The one-sidedness of such a agreement is incredulous. Her own lawyer challenged her twice and made her sign waivers stating her ignoring of his and two financial experts’ advice.

My situation is completely unfair. And that is not measured in money. When tallying the balance sheet of fairness don’t use dollars and cents - use dollars and sense. You will find the dollars play a less significant role than first thought. Yes, we have to eat and such, so don’t give away the farm - for any of those who are knee deep their own situations and reading along or happen to stubble upon this. Financial security is important.

Your situation. You have your home, your children, the love of your children, your self-respect and their respect, a good job, a good future, an emotionally mature relationship, a new car, and much other materialistic stuff - you are happy. A very large list.

XW has an incontinent dog, a small apartment, and what appears to be a rather bleak future. Oh, she has some money, and you are sending her the agreed upon and court settled amount, every month. (More stuff for your list - responsible outlook and will keep his word).

Who is better off?

What is fair?

Feelings, thoughts, and beliefs.

It feels unfair. You bet. And you can’t directly change that.

It is unfair. Just look intellectually at the tally. Your life vs her life. If it was so far in unfairness in her favour, I suspect you would be happy to change positions with her. You and her swap. That really shines the true unfairness of this, and the standing of monetary possessions in the hierarchy. You would not for one second switch places with her.

Beliefs. It is unfair - for her. That helps in letting go. Helps in forgiving. Helps in finding peace.

Has very little to do with getting to the date of when xx equals yy. Believe that. Find your peace with it.

Let go the need to find fairness with this. See her true costs and your gains, accept the unfairness, and your lion’s share.

MLC or crisis or whatever - these situations are not fair, right from the start. It just takes some time to see the true unfairness of it all.

Peace my friend.

DnJ


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Is it unfair? Yes and no.
Valuing the work that a wife and mother does and the hit to her career that she usually takes by having children - that’s fair. Spousal support formulas are generally fair in that regard.

The fact that two apart is a lot more expensive than two together and we are not enjoying the financial security we thought we’d have at this time in our lives is unfair. But I wouldn’t trade places with my ex.

My ex, who was the WAS is still bitter about having paid me alimony. Even though we were married 24 years, my career was mommy tracked to raise three kids and provide all the support so that he could excel at his career, and support was only 11% of his after-tax income. He never had to spend any time on his weekends doing laundry, cooking, paying bills, driving kids to lessons and doctors appointments etc etc etc. I even proof read his papers and helped him with exams. We were a team I thought. But he resents a lousy ten years of alimony. They want the zipless divorce with no consequences. I’ve spent by my estimate at least 70,000 more than him supporting our kids. But he wants to whine.

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It’s all about perception.

I bet you any dollar, S’s ex husbands are saying the same thing. “ it’s not fair! I wanted to make to make this marriage work! Why did she leave?!?” She doesn’t work and I pay alimony” Yet I’m sure S’s ex hubby sees it as she really did try. But it was his fault because he was too controlling. Or whatever.

Is it fair???? You are absolutely entitled to feeling it isn’t. I don’t think the person who pays it will ever think it’s “fair”, especially when it wasn’t “their choice” it I learned from these boards, our spouses felt as if they had no choice. We can argue that all day, but we all see what we want t see.

So I would make that money any other bill you pay on the exact day any month. I don’t think my mortgage is a fair amount either, but that’s my perception.

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I also agree that it is not fair that I pay for my house on one income and he gets to pay on 2. Not fair. But my fault maybe because I never remarried. Not his problem in his eyes

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True G - if I was remarried to a man with my ex’s earning capacity I would be back where I would have been. Unfortunately, in my age group, men with that kind of income feel entitled to date much younger women. None of the men I’ve dated, unfortunately, have their act together financially. But I think that’s also generally a boomer problem - too few planned for retirement.

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Below is a wonderful little recipe that's perfect for the holidays.

Cooter Pie

Ingredients:
1 med.-sized cooter
1/2 c. stewed tomatoes
1 c. sweet milk
1 c. liquor from stew pot
1 tbsp. whiskey
Celery salt
Red pepper
2 hard-boiled eggs, cut up
2 slices toasted bread, crumbled
Worcestershire sauce
2 tbsp. butter
1 tbsp. sherry
Mace
Black pepper to taste

Directions:
Drop live cooter in a pot of boiling water. Cook 45 minutes. Open shell with a saw and take out meat, fat, liver, and eggs. Be careful not to break the gall. Remove meat from the feet and legs. Put all this in a pot with a little water and salt; then stew until tender, usually about 1 hour.

Next, cut up meat, liver, and eggs. Add stewed tomatoes, milk, liquor from stew pot, butter, whiskey, sherry, eggs (cut up), bread crumbs, and seasonings. Put in shell (which has been provided by the cooter and has been thoroughly cleaned). Cover with cracker crumbs, dot with butter, and bake in 375 degree oven about 45 minutes.

Note:
Cooter pie can be served with a side of poutine to create a perfect fusion of cross cultural cuisines. Yum!

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Thanks all. The lack of "fair" is more about the impact on us all rather than any sort of comparison to my ex-wife's situation. I certainly was upset in the early days imagining that she had someone to help and comfort her while I had to face it all alone. If we dust off the old mind-reading turban for a moment, I would imagine that she also feels that everything is very unfair to her too.

I did laugh at DnJ remembering that she had / has (?) an incontinent dog.

It is what it is though.

Originally Posted by kml
True G - if I was remarried to a man with my ex’s earning capacity I would be back where I would have been. Unfortunately, in my age group, men with that kind of income feel entitled to date much younger women. None of the men I’ve dated, unfortunately, have their act together financially. But I think that’s also generally a boomer problem - too few planned for retirement.
Very very true. Which is one of the reasons why I'm not surprised that the women I've met with a couple of exceptions are very unprepared for retirement as well. While I certainly could have been one of those men who chose to date much younger, I'm grateful for you nudging me to look beyond the superficial and to also consider longer term by pointing out that women do tend to live longer than men. FSL at 39 is undoubtedly too young all things considered. B is 57 and S is 51. Both kind and loving women.

Originally Posted by doodler
Below is a wonderful little recipe that's perfect for the holidays.

Cooter Pie
The first thing that went through my mind was Cooter from Dukes of Hazard wink Glad it was another sort of cooter. Sawing a puir wee turtle (or even a big one) in half isn't something that I think I could face. They are undoubtedly all down in the mud having their winter snooze by this time around here too. Perhaps in the spring.

Little bit of trivia. I grew up on the banks of the Saugeen River during the 1970s which at the time was full of very large snapping turtles. Some guys from New York staked out our section of river harvesting the turtles for the restaurant trade carting them back in their VW bug in burlap sacks. In a few years, there were pretty much no turtles and especially no big ones. I don't believe that the population ever recovered.

Busy but overall good weekend. I do believe that I need to re-glue S's bed frame. It seems to have loosened up for some reason .... We did a bunch of cleaning and organizing as well as just spending time together. Her kids were off with their Dad for the weekend so we had the place to ourselves (and the critters). Saturday after noon and Sunday morning were spent there and then we picked up my groceries (had to skip getting my roses) and back to my place for more chores, cleaning and dinner.

We did have to slow down significantly as on Sunday morning I over-exerted myself - doing the cleaning - and had a minor angina episode. S didn't know or realize that when I said that I needed to sit down and slow down that it meant that I NEEDED to sit down. She understood better later when she realized that my face had turned grey and I got very insistent that I couldn't do any more. We took it a lot easier from then on. She already knew that I carry aspirin on me at all times and I also now showed her were I keep my nitro and how it is used. It did alter some of our plans for Sunday afternoon as we wanted to be sure that I didn't over-exert myself smile . Which was good because S25 came home mid-afternoon unexpectedly and S's kids did a bit later to pick up her apartment key about 5 hours before expected.

S had already known about my heart condition, partially blocked arteries, two leaky valves and high blood pressure (yep! He's a prize!) but I don't think had connected the dots to it being something we need to be cognizant about. She asked me a bunch of questions, I answered and she is now more aware that for some things, especially heavy lifting and especially in the cold, that I need to take it slowly. She has her own set of health issues so I think that helps with her understanding. I think that in some ways that it helped her with her "the other shoe" thing that had been in the back of her mind. I do have a flaw - and a potentially fatal one at that. I suspect that her pinterest boards will start filling up with cardiac healthy ideas. Her own Dad who is in his late 80s has had a heart condition and so she knows full well that it's something that if it is "managed" shouldn't be a problem.

I did tell S that when I have an episode that it generally takes a few days before I'm feeling back to normal and if it's a bad one that it can take a week. I'm still feeling the effects today but think this will be a shorter one. S has already checked in on me this morning to see if I'm feeling ok and to let me know how much she appreciated my help on the weekend.

We had a bunch of talks on the weekend too, spending some time over dinner talking about how my bomb-day really hurts my ability to trust for example. She mentioned that she's going to be seeing her STBX on Wednesday to talk to him face to face to tell him that she is proceeding with the divorce. She's 95% sure that he knows that she is in a relationship with someone or at least dating regularly. She seems calm and confident about that although I know she's worried that she'll lose his benefits plan. She uses it for her own therapy and medications. I did mention that my own lawyer and my HR person both said that I couldn't remove my own ex if there were pre-existing conditions. She believes that he'll take things fairly well and not be a jerk so the medical insurance may well continue. Her minor age kids are still on their Dad's plan. There is still a bit of "stuff" there. The impression I have is that when she moved out 4+ years ago that it was done abruptly and then they went through a push/pull cycle for quite a while.

One thing that S brought up that bothered her is the fact that on social media that I seem to have a "lot" of female friends. She knows that I participate on a couple of "divorce support forums" and I did say that a number of the supportive women come from there as well as co-workers, relatives and just regular friends. I can see how this could be a concern for her especially since those women tend to be very positive and supportive of me. I did tell her that I would be happy to tell her who each and every person is and how I'm connected to them.

After dinner - where S helped cook and did the clean-up while I got my ironing done - very domestic - I took her home. Her S17 had been pestering her about when she'd get there as they currently only have a single key to the apartment since the landlord changed the locks to special security locks. I had a big laugh because while we were waiting for him to come down and open the door we were smooching in the car and I told him that I "knew" that he would show up as soon as that started. He's seeing his therapist this morning.

He did make an out-of the blue comment to S though that he quite likes me. I think that because I treat the boys not as "my kids" but as kids who I happen to know and like, including both receiving and dishing out a certain amount of joking and teasing along with taking their questions etc seriously and honestly. He does like teasing his mother now that he learned that my grand-parents were cousins that she's dating an "in-bred guy". I've talked to S and told her that based on what I'd read that it was important that in no way was I going to act in any sort of parental role. She is the parent. I'm not. S seemed very happy that I'm being thoughtful about that. And rather surprised that I've spent the time reading up on such things - but not too surprised now that she knows me better.

Still a whole page left of this thread and 2 weeks and a bit of time. How many recipes will end up being posted to push me over the end I wonder.


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Little bit of trivia. I grew up on the banks of the Saugeen River during the 1970s which at the time was full of very large snapping turtles. Some guys from New York staked out our section of river harvesting the turtles for the restaurant trade carting them back in their VW bug in burlap sacks. In a few years, there were pretty much no turtles and especially no big ones. I don't believe that the population ever recovered.

How many turtles did you sell to those guys?

Originally Posted by AndrewP
I do believe that I need to re-glue S's bed frame. It seems to have loosened up for some reason ...

Too much Wang Chung, eh? I’ve been trying to tell you that you’re playing the odds. Roll those dice enough and they’ll come up snake eyes. Soon enough there’ll be a pea in the pod. Leaky valves and clogged veins won’t matter; you’ll be picking up the crying youngin’ because the old lady’s hip dysplasia will be acting up. Fortunately, it’s only a 25 year commitment (maybe).

Originally Posted by AndrewP
After dinner - where S helped cook and did the clean-up while I got my ironing done - very domestic - I took her home. Her S17 had been pestering her about when she'd get there as they currently only have a single key to the apartment since the landlord changed the locks to special security locks. I had a big laugh because while we were waiting for him to come down and open the door we were smooching in the car and I told him that I "knew" that he would show up as soon as that started. He's seeing his therapist this morning.

There’s a temporal issue with your paragraph. It starts out with “after dinner” and ends with “this morning.” Something doesn’t add up.

Also, are you implying that S17 is seeing his therapist because he saw you and S kissing? There’s no segue so it’s hard to figure out what’s going on. It’s like that sentence you wrote when you said, “It’s a 30 minute drive to the fair with large vegetables.” Huh? You leave your loyal fans and readers perplexed. We wonder if you’re drunk or sniffing glue whilst fixing a distressed bed frame.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Still a whole page left of this thread and 2 weeks and a bit of time. How many recipes will end up being posted to push me over the end I wonder.

Let’s see, there are ten posts per page and you posted and I’m posting, so that’s 10 – 2 = 8. Eight more posts to go (unless someone has posted before I post this message). Bob’s your uncle, I think we’re going to burn through this thread in a couple of days.

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Doodler,

I about died laughing over your response concerning S's loose bed frame and the pea in the pod, etc. I was thinking the same thing. LOL!

Andrew,

Your posting today will generate enough comments that your thread will fill completely up before the end of this week.

Please take care of yourself and you and S need to stop all of that "activity" in her bed because at the rate you two are going, you will need to purchase a new bed frame for her. LOL!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
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Originally Posted by doodler
How many turtles did you sell to those guys?
They would load up their VW Beetle up to the gunwales. You'll need to get one and start loading turtles to get an idea of what the capacity would be. It was a long time ago but I'm sure they did multiple trips each year. They'd bait traps at the bottom of the river and then pull them up after the turtles drowned if memory serves frown
Originally Posted by doodler
Bob’s your uncle, I think we’re going to burn through this thread in a couple of days.
He preferred to be called Rob. A very lovely man. My mother's youngest brother. He passed on a few years ago which was sad because his biological daughter from a fling he had as a teen-ager tracked down the connection to him through me a couple of years after he passed and they never got to meet. His widow and his two children with her embraced her as one of her own. As an aside, my mother was called Roberta - which in an Irish Catholic family means "we really wanted a boy".

Originally Posted by job
Please take care of yourself and you and S need to stop all of that "activity" in her bed because at the rate you two are going, you will need to purchase a new bed frame for her. LOL!
The biggest challenge was trying to convince the various pets that it wasn't nap time and that they perhaps should be somewhere else for a while ... It is extremely rare that all of S's kids are absent so it will be some time before the structural engineers will need to be called in. My furniture is fortunately strongly built. Given the fact that all of the pets in her apartment thought that they were going to get a ride on the bouncy castle - and were sadly mistaken - there wouldn't be room to add on a pea or pod person.
Originally Posted by job

Andrew,

Your posting today will generate enough comments that your thread will fill completely up before the end of this week.
D'oh! I've been tricked!


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Quote
I've talked to S and told her that based on what I'd read that it was important that in no way was I going to act in any sort of parental role.


Good for you! CMM seems to think he has a right to an opinion on my grown children (because they are not compulsive germophobes like he is) and it is a real problem - if I were to break up with him it would be over THAT, not over him having stage 4 lung cancer!

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Good Morning Andrew

Wow this thread is filling up fast. smile

Originally Posted by AndrewP
The lack of "fair" is more about the impact on us all rather than any sort of comparison to my ex-wife's situation.

Yeah. I knew what you were saying. It’s just what are you comparing too, that results in unfair? The “what could have been”. At times I do the same; it’s a cheese-less tunnel. I find looking bigger, or taking the focus off what could have been and placing it on what is, utilizes my energies better.

Anyhow, the six figure lump sum pay out, 2 sons in university and living away from home, one daughter going to follow suit in the university route this coming year, food and expenses, etc. and no help whatsoever from XW. Shrug. It is what it is.

Anyhow, strange, a bed frame suddenly developing poor structural integrity. With the joints all poorly glued it must squeak quite a bit I would hazard. smile

Oh, and my dear friend, do slow down a little every now and then. I was a bit antsy reading about your gray complexion and shortness of breath. I obviously am glad it turned out fine. I also like that you explained it to S and showed her where and how to use your medication if a need arose.

Take care

DnJ


squeak


What was that? A mouse?


squeak


giggle


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
As an aside, my mother was called Roberta - which in an Irish Catholic family means "we really wanted a boy".

"Bob's yo momma" has potential as an idiomatic phrase. I'm just not sure how it would be used in context.

I'm thinking it's about time for another recipe.

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As a friend, and a nurse, who’s jam is cardiac.....

Clogged arteries? Leaky valves?!?

Are you being medically managed? Do you follow up with your cardiologist every 6 months? Have echocardiograms? and stress tests?

That episode scared me as it must have scared you. Your body is saying, slow down!!!

I understand you are wanting to help a lot and do the heavy lifting for her, but not at the expense of your health.

You would benefit from some good cardio like long walks.

You are too young, andrew. You also have modifiable risk factors, so you can head this in the right direction!

Take it easy, my friend .

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Originally Posted by DnJ
Anyhow, strange, a bed frame suddenly developing poor structural integrity. With the joints all poorly glued it must squeak quite a bit I would hazard. smile
I've spent most of my career working in industrial environments. I recently went through and refreshed my WHMIS training here at the acid plant. Identifying risk factors in the workplace and then managing that risk is part of ensuring a safe environment for all. Generally speaking, instruction manuals for any equipment or chemicals need to be easily available and the operator needs to be familiar with them. If the operator in any way is not fully confident that they understand what they need to do and the attendant risks then they are required to refuse to do the job and inform their supervisor. Next time I'm over I'll need to check to see if the SDS and technical manuals are all up to date and clearly labeled. I do have confidence in my supervisor to provide me with direction whenever I have doubts about the proper use and care of the equipment and processes involved laugh

Originally Posted by Ginger1
As a friend, and a nurse, who’s jam is cardiac.....

Clogged arteries? Leaky valves?!?

Are you being medically managed? Do you follow up with your cardiologist every 6 months? Have echocardiograms? and stress tests?

That episode scared me as it must have scared you. Your body is saying, slow down!!!

I understand you are wanting to help a lot and do the heavy lifting for her, but not at the expense of your health.

You would benefit from some good cardio like long walks.

You are too young, andrew. You also have modifiable risk factors, so you can head this in the right direction!

Take it easy, my friend .
Thanks Ginger. Given our "universal health-care" - the amount of follow-up that I get are probably less than would happen in your system. On the other hand, I'm over 10 years out from my initial diagnosis and have been stable for quite a long time. With that said, I've had great care from both my primary care provider and my cardiologist. I haven't seen either though in over a year - but on the other hand, my condition hasn't changed and it is managed with a combination of meds and lifestyle choices. Generally I do try to get out for a minimum of 1 hour of brisk walking which is usually about 4 km each week. I do consider a day doing house-work as a reasonable substitute. My favourite cleaning product is elbow grease after-all.

My cardiologist has done a couple of stress tests which I passed with ease. They did do an angio-gram about 10 years ago which is where the blockages were identified. They chose - in my mind wisely - to have me manage my risk factors rather than put in a stent. I've had a couple echo-cardiograms, the last one I think just before bomb-day - so about 4 years - that identified leaking mitral and tri-cuspid valves which my primary care provider said was perfectly normal in a man of my age. My colo-rectal surgeon actually identified the heart murmur when doing a pre-op health check.

I am very aware I feel of what risk factors I still have that I am working on. I "need" to lose about 20lbs which will put me back down to my post bomb-day weight. My alcohol consumption is way down especially in recent times. I pretty much never eat anything with the word processed in it, nor do I add salt to anything I cook. I try to get regular moderate exercise and rarely do heavy or intense exercise or lifting.

It's probably been 6 months or so since my last angina attack of this sort. I am confident that S will be supportive of me as she has been very very clear that she wants to be in making sure that I follow the core instruction from my doctor of "don't be stupid".


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I worry about you Andrew.

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Grrrrr - I lose this round ...

New thread - LBS Cookbook
https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...flat&Number=2876543&#Post2876543


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Originally Posted by AndrewP
Grrrrr - I lose this round ...

I'm doing victory laps. cool

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