But in response yes I'm looking for a reaction by floating the idea I would move out of town and leave her with the kids.
I love my kids , want to wake up to them every morning but also need her to know I'm not back up child care when she wants to pursue her new single life.
Last edited by job; 11/01/1910:41 PM. Reason: added link to previous thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
But in response yes I'm looking for a reaction by floating the idea
I love my kids , want to wake up to them every morning
I wouldn't do it, then. Make choices for you and the kids. Drop the pressure.
Originally Posted by "Jdevast"
but also need her to know I'm not back up child care when she wants to pursue her new single life.
If you want to stop being backup child care, say "No" when she asks you to be backup childcare. You're both 50/50 responsible for the kids, so let her know the half of the time you are available so she can make her GAL plans. Say no if she breaks the schedule. If you move away, at least in the US, you'd be ordered to pay child support--giving her enough money so she can GAL about as often as you can GAL.
Personally, I accept almost any extra time with my kids my ex offers, because I love seeing them. The exception would be if the ask is too last minute and I have plans.
Well J your kind of contradicting yourself. One minute you say you want to wake up to your kids every day and the next minute you say you’re not her babysitter.
Question for J...would you rather she get a babysitter or some stranger to take care of your children when she wants to go out? Most people would jump at the chance to have their children w/them more than the 50/50 arrangement. Are you wanting to say no to "punish or be spiteful" w/your wife because she wants to go out?
If you truly do not have plans for the evening that she asks, there is no harm in taking the children. However, I would stipulate to her that she needs to schedule the extra time w/you in advance because you may have plans.
You need to sit down and think about what you really want...do you want that additional time w/them or just go w/what has been agreed upon? Be sure to document all of the additional time that you have them. You just never know if you will need to provide proof of how much they are w/you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
JDevast, I get you're on an emotional roller coaster. These last few days you posted everything from who she is now is who you fell in love with, to you're angry and resentful about her behavior.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
she has completely closed to me saying that she no longer feels safe around someone so manipulative and demanded I leave the family home.
Floating the idea of moving, in an attempt to get a reaction, would be manipulative (influencing or attempting to influence the behavior or emotions of others for one's own purposes).
When I walked away from my ex-wife, I'd have been happy if she moved. That would've removed most of the consequences--I'd see my kids anytime I wanted, I'd get my income plus hers, and I could free up my schedule to meet new people on any schedule I wanted. Another single dad I know got to live this dream. I definitely had fantasies about my ex moving far, far away when I was the walkaway spouse.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Fact remains she would never have made all these new friends or tasted this new freedom if I hadn't been at home watching the kids.
My partner leveraged friends and family for childcare. If you wouldn't take responsibility for the kids 50%, in most places you'd end up paying enough child support to cover a nanny/sitter.
There are many consequences to walking away from a marriage. "No free time" is rarely one of them.
Anyway, using the a.m. while my partner sleeps to wish you well. GAL this weekend. Peace!
Thanks again people, really appreciate the support. Yes that's all emotional rollercoaster stuff, at my weakest moments I want to lash out , effect some change in the situation. So yes I may rant on here, I don't tend to act on it. Truth is I'm hurting, I love her deeply and selfishly just really miss her.
My brain does backflips wanting to know she still has some hope for us, love, affection etc etc
Just finding this really hard.
Went out last night and had a really good time, met some good fun people.
Sat in new flat today, weather is terrible, feeling really alone and down.
Resisting the temptation to make contact with her to fill the hole.
Went out last night, met some new friends, trying hard to Gal and realising just how shut off and isolated I had become.
So, having a nice time but at same time my wives new friends were all there, the group who have all been supporting each other, confiding and going out together with their new single lives.
Everyone was civil and friendly on the face of it but definitely some awkwardness, know there's a shared narrative about me.
Anyway made the most of it , tried to show I was happy and smiling etc.
So obviously this would all of got back to my wife.
I texted her this morning to check in on preagreed plans for me to see the kids so she could spend the day with same friends.
Texts back were really cold, terse and impersonal I ran by wether kids would like to go out to lunch.
She responded I could do whatever I liked them
I let her know that I'd decided to go into work rather than attend my class in the morning but would see the kids at same pre arranged time.
This set off a chain of messages saying how unfair the situation was to her. That she wanted a plan in place immediately for me to have the kids 50% of term time.
I replied querying that we had previously agreed that kids would remain in family home and I would see them regularly and alternate weekend's until we sold house and could both buy somewhere.
(My flat is 1 bed so with a son and daughter we initially thought it would be too much upheaval for the kids with logistics of getting to school and sleeping arrangements etc.
She goes off, stating that that is my problem to sort out, that there is no family home, home is where the heart is
I asked if she wanted to sit down to discuss this and the seperation plan, let her know I could be as flexible as possible and was open to working something out.
I then got a stream of links to co parenting plans. That she wanted me to agree to one week on, one week off immediately and then she would be happy to talk things through
I responded I was open to finding a solution and that we would need to discuss logistics and the child benefits she is claiming as kids living with her ( Im renting at basically unmanageable expense to be able to feed and clothe the kids as well) I asked her if she had made plans for bonfire night this Tuesday.
She replied that she no longer wants to do anything together. That she wants stronger boundaries That she does not want me in her personal space or at the family home.
I validated
She continues accusing me of not doing enough ( again every time she has called short notice when there has been an issue I have jumped)
She seems 100% only concerned with ensuring she has this new single social life.
She drops the kids off, and again on seeing her my heart melts ,I kept things friendly but she seems really irked. I'm guessing by my going out.
I fully understand , i feel great jealousy whenever I think of her out having fun.
Rough day, part of me feels she is conflicted or she is just feeling a lot of hate and anger towards me.
Know I can't tell what she is thinking, feel sure she's going to spend the day with new friends consolidating how this seperation is the right thing to do.
Her friends let her know that you were out having a good time. She's mad at the world, herself and everything else. She is having a tantrum like a 2 year old. I wouldn't worry about her being irked. She'll get over it. They do not like to see and/or hear that we are living our lives and are moving on. They want us to remain right where they left us.
J, continue as you have been...listen and validate. Live your life to the fullest and you know what you can or can't do on your schedule w/your children.
Leave her be for now. Give her time and space and when she gets over her little snit, she'll be back to being somewhat friendly.
Hang in there.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I see.. so she's like, "I want a 50/50 schedule".. and you're like "Well, that's negotiable, but you can't have the home, this level of financial support AND a 50/50 schedule."
Originally Posted by JDevast
I then got a stream of links to co parenting plans. That she wanted me to agree to one week on, one week off immediately and then she would be happy to talk things through
Generally, week on / week off is recommended for older kids only because that's a long time for a young child to be away from either parent. I'm on a 5-2-2-5 schedule--which gives me the same weekdays "on" and "off" every week, making scheduling activities easier. I'd take time to review options before diving in.
Hi LH19 So bonfire night is a UK holiday , generally lighting of bonfires and fireworks. We always took the kids to displays.
I moved out because she basically demanded I did, labelled every wrong word I'd ever said, every lack of affection and intimacy over our entire relationship as abuse.
She was so angry I in equal parts wanted to avoid conflict and avoid causing her any damage or pain.
In hindsight it may have been a mistake.
I have done everything she's wanted to make this easier for her ,maybe in an attempt to placate her and nice her back.
Yep big mistake moving out and you’re definitely trying to placate her which never works.
Now as for your previous post you are putting pressure on her which is forcing her to set boundaries with you. You should be NC unless it’s about logistics for the kids.
I'm not meaning to put any pressure on her, do you mean by trying to be friendly in texts or by wanting to negotiate child care. Is nc right in this sitch, I'd been trying to show a Pma and be more open as a 180. But yes I have been trying to placate her.
Can I turn this around? Is it advisable I just go nc, is the goal just to give her space, is this placating her more?
Is this more of just giving her what she wants to pursue her single life.
Should I maintain friendly Pma in texts etc or be more reserved.
I guess I feel being distant is exactly what caused the db.
Excuse my constant posting. I'm having to post frequently as some sort of journal I guess.
Had the kids today while she saw her friends , got some lunch took them back to the family home got them sorted for school tomorrow and put youngest to bed.
Received a text from her that she would be returning at 9.30pm and didn't want to talk about anything on her return. Replied with a thumbs up.
She returns, my son is still up. I say hi and no response, starts talking to my son and very clearly ignoring me while I gather my things. Small interaction about son's open day at school tomorrow. Say goodbye to my son Say goodnight to her and no response.
So who knows , she seems full of anger towards me.
Back at the flat now, my copy of db arrived while I was out so will get stuck in. Concentrate on work tmrw and no contact unless she initiates.
Will try and be more reserved and then navigate the school open evening tomorrow.
So who knows , she seems full of anger towards me.
Keep posting as much as you want mate.
I wouldn't say goodnight again until she says it. You be a ghost around her til things settle. The anger toward you will come and go in waves. You are the Lighthouse and the waves will crash against you sometimes, but you will remain solid, steadfast and indifferent to these fluctuations in her moods.
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Concentrate on work tmrw and no contact unless she initiates.
Will try and be more reserved and then navigate the school open evening tomorrow.
Yes, nothing unless she initiates. I wouldn't respond anyway unless it's a question, or something that definitely needs confirmation from you. The thumbs up emoji is a good go to response.
I had a school meeting night last week too. I navigated that by splitting from XW as soon as it came time to check out the various school subject stalls. I said I'd check out stall Y, if she could check out stall Z, then left her to it and moved to the opposite side of the hall. She ended up shadowing me on my stall, so I told her to take my place in line and I'd move to the next one, then left her. I kept moving as she kept trailing, and when I finished went and sat back down. A few seconds later, she was sat down as well.
The old, pre BD me would have waited for her to suggest what stalls we go to, and I would have shadowed her. This time, I took the lead, and it felt natural. Try that approach if circumstnaces and W's vibe permits it. If not, just do your own thing and don't follow her around. Find someone and make small talk, then move on to the next person. If you've got nothing to do, sift through all the paperwork you'll have accumulated on the night. Dont just stand around looking lost! If there are info documents to grab, get a second copy for her as well, and hand it to her at a convenient time.
You're the proactive, involved, know what you're doing JD at the school evening tomorrow.
Good luck mate
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
I’m going to disagree all with DS in that saying high and goodbye are the proper things to do. You are above the pettiness. No need to thumbs up the other nonsense.
I'm not coming to school event tonight. You can either meet son from school or pick him up from the home at 4pm."
This cycle of coldness from someone whom I've been so close to really hurts.
I accept all my faults, but the narrative continues that she is the victim and I the one who caused all the damage, There is zero trust or acceptance from her. I am no longer a human being in her eyes.
I replied I will pick son up from the house and return him after.
She replies Ok. I want us to stop co-parenting and look at this parallel parenting app.
Stupidly I replied " is there something I have done for us to stop co parenting and switch to parallel parenting?
Her: 15 years of emotional abuse!
Me: I'm sorry you feel we can't co parent or navigate this amicably. I have been trying hard to do everything you have asked through all this.
Her: I haven't asked anything from you! ( except for leaving the house, leaving our business, jumping whenever she needs a hand with the kids, 50/50 parenting from next week regardless of logistics or finances)
Her again: I don't have to communicate with you about anything except the kids.
Me: I would prefer we did this amicably, im sure I've made some mistakes In dealing with all of this, I don't wish you any Ill will and will look at the app"
I feel like I've blown it, what the heck can I do next. 5 mins later she's messaging about work related things.
It's crazy, Jdevast. Lots of us have been through the same thing of being demonized by our WAS. I think alot of WAS's need to do this in order to continue to justify their shitty behavior. The over the top accusations, and exaggerated abuse claims
There's nothing you can do about it. Continue to carry yourself with grace and integrity. Don't let her bait you into a fight, and don't kiss her ass either. Stay right in the middle of the road. She wants you to blow up so she can say "See? You are an abuser!" and then carry on with whatever she feels is best for her.
Show her nothing but strength and continue to make your kids your #1 priority.
It's just so painful. And it's amazing how quickly the switch seems to flip in them to begin treating you coldly or like you're the dog poop stuck to the bottom of their shoe.
My WW has been in an EA (possibly PA) since mid-August and the only time we see or speak to each other now is when we exchange our S4 on Sundays in a retail parking lot. I equate it to trying to converse with a 14-year-old because all she does now is just mumble, avoid eye contact, and avoid answering any kind of question.
Yesterday her tactic was to message me two hours before exchange time and tell me we need to meet two hours later because they're going to take pictures. Come to find out the pictures were with my son, [AP], [AP's child], and my wife. I just said "Sounds great. See you then!"
But it is tough taking the high road. The divorce hasn't even been filed yet.
Im kind of in the same boat as you, Jdevast. One thing I started doing is not being so responsive to her texts, particularly if she's treated me poorly. I claim to be busy a lot or just avoid being so accessible via phone.
Jdv, there is no explanations. I wish there were. My W would cycle between knowing she was done and wanted a D to potentially inviting couples from church over for dinner? It was a whirlwind of 180 changes in direction overnight.
The only thing I can tell you is that right now she is a crazy person. Her reality is what it is in any given moment. One moment she can't forgive you for 15 years of "emotional abuse" (FYI in must cases this is a grossly over exaggeration used to justify other behaviors), the next she is leaning on you emotionally for work crap. If someone emotionally abused you why would you emotionally rely on them?
The WAS, and especially WS, mind is a dangerous place to be. My W looked back on that period of her life and admitted that she had no idea what she was going to feel from minute to minute.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I replied I will pick son up from the house and return him after.
Good job!
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Stupidly I replied " is there something I have done for us to stop co parenting and switch to parallel parenting?
With texts you can p-a-u-s-e, for hours if you need to, to come up with short, validating replies.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Me: I'm sorry you feel we can't co parent or navigate this amicably.
That's NOT what she said per the exchange above.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
I have been trying hard to do everything you have asked through all this.
That would be accomplished by acknowledging her and looking at the app.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Her: I haven't asked anything from you! ( except for leaving the house, leaving our business, jumping whenever she needs a hand with the kids, 50/50 parenting from next week regardless of logistics or finances)
She's in 'alien mode' here. Good job not taking the bait!
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Me: I would prefer we did this amicably, im sure I've made some mistakes In dealing with all of this, I don't wish you any Ill will and
Blah blah blah..
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
will look at the app"
Good job!
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
I feel like I've blown it, what the heck can I do next.
A week from now, she may say "I can't co-parent with him. It was a struggle just getting him to LOOK at a parenting app.." but a year from now she probably won't say "I couldn't reconcile with him. It took five texts to get him to look at a parenting app". That would sound downright silly!
It's hard to react perfectly to bad news. You didn't do terribly. Slow it down next time.
Today's unlikely to be the defining moment in your divorce, but resolve to do better. Review listening and validation. There are great books and a short "Empathy" video by Brene Brown to help.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
5 mins later she's messaging about work related things.
'Alien mode' lol. It sounds like you'll have more opportunities to show you can listen and validate.
Just to clarify the work stuff was related to our shared business. She wasn't leaning on me.
Texts have continued to be extremely cold throughout the evening.
Notified me son is sick, no open evening.
Will drop work stock over to me in the morning.
Notified me she does not need me to watch kids Wednesday as she has got a sitter.
Notified me she will drop kids over to me on Saturday morning and collect them following Saturday.
Replied ok to all of them except last. Notified her that I was flexible, had received advice that week on week off was not thought to be the best for kids our daughters age. Will look into it, and that we didn't have to discuss it now but would need to look at finances
( she is claiming welfare benefits for the kids living with her full time.
I'm financially extremely tight since having to move out and rent, and need to share the government help we get)
Just an ok in response. Then another message reiterating she is dropping them off Saturday.
You have moved out..Correct?? If you can't/wont move back in then:
Your kids are old enough for week on/week off schedule. I had a Mid week diner visit. I can elaborate more if needed.
Do you love your wife? Respect her boundaries. Do you love your children? Get a 50/50 parenting plan put in place.
Learn to negotiate: W:"I am hungry." H:" How about we go get pizza?" W:"I would rather have burgers." H:"I had burgers for lunch. How about we go to Subway?" W:"Sandwiches sound good, How about Jimmy Johns?"
If you don't like to option presented, present your own. Two alternate choices also works.
If your relationship with your children is important:
Get a written parenting plan ASAP. Get your place set up for kids. If not, get a different place ASAP.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Notified me she will drop kids over to me on Saturday morning and collect them following Saturday.
You can't make her want to see her kids even if you feel that's what is best for them.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Notified me son is sick, no open evening. Notified me she does not need me to watch kids Wednesday as she has got a sitter.
Are you okay with NOT seeing your kids until Saturday? Neither my partner nor I have ever denied scheduled custody due to illness, and many parenting plans include a "Right of First Refusal".. meaning before engaging babysitters or other 3rd party services, she should offer you the chance to watch the kids.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
she is claiming welfare benefits for the kids living with her full time.
It definitely sounds like 2020 finances should be different than 2019 finances.
Your kids are old enough for week on/week off schedule. I had a Mid week diner visit. I can elaborate more if needed.
I don't know the ages of his kids. According to the child development specialist "Hodges", kids 6-10 are most content with see both parents every week, while 11+ are pretty content without that. A mid-week visit like you have would be a game-changer. I'm sure the specific child make a big difference! Choices.
Originally Posted by "Ready2Change"
Get a written parenting plan ASAP. Get your place set up for kids. If not, get a different place ASAP.
... many parenting plans include a "Right of First Refusal".. meaning before engaging babysitters or other 3rd party services, she should offer you the chance to watch the kids.
The farther away from 50/50, the harder I would push for this.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
My youngest is 6 . Advice I had gotten earlier was that younger kids don't do well with week on week off.
I mistakenly looked at another posters signature that had older kids. Can you update your signature to include kids age. You can always ask a "professional" for their opinion. We had a family therapist. I weighed his advise extremely high when X and I disagreed.
My youngest was 6 when we separated. She is 17 now. Time flies by.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I don't know the ages of his kids. According to the child development specialist "Hodges", kids 6-10 are most content with see both parents every week, while 11+ are pretty content without that. A mid-week visit like you have would be a game-changer.
I did the same as R2C. My kids were around 7, 13 and 16 when we separated I think. I talked to a lot of people with various visitation schedules and the ones that were doing week on/ week off seemed to have the fewest issues. Obviously my preference would be 100% visitation, but as far as having to surrender half my time with them the week on/ week off worked quite well. It was easy to coordinate homework and projects. Nearly all school activities were during the week and this schedule alleviated confusion over which parent was supposed to pick up/ drop off/ prep them for activities and such. Was very cut and dried. We did drop-offs on Sunday afternoon which was nice and leisurely. Gave us time to discuss any pending homework or projects. We also agreed to a mid-week visitation and even wrote it into the D decree. Neither of us ended up using it much because as it turned out, we both saw them a lot during our off weeks due to cheer, football, band and color guard. I heard a lot of horror stories about the 3-2-2 setup. Lots of confusion over who had the kids when; homework and computers and phones getting left at the other house by accident because they were rushing to switch; sometimes one or the other parent completely forgetting it was a switch day. It works for some people but at my age I really need simplicity in my life, LOL!
My exchanges were Friday. Dinner Visit on Tuesday.
The best thing about the midweek visit, 2 long 3 short work days the week I was parenting. 3 long work days 2 short the next week. My boss was very accommodating.
I saw the kids all the time due to baseball, basketball, soccer. Me and the kids agreed that I should play with the kids that were not in the formal activity. Good times.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Nearly all school activities were during the week and this schedule alleviated confusion over which parent was supposed to pick up/ drop off/ prep them for activities and such. Was very cut and dried. We did drop-offs on Sunday afternoon which was nice and leisurely.
I love 5/2/2/5, so I'll share why. Imagine she gets the kids every Mon/Tue and you get every Wed/Thu and you swap weekends. First, your kids never go more than 5 days without seeing you. Child development specialists prefer more regular contact for younger kids, although every child's different. Second, you can set your kids' weekday routines (e.g., Thursday art classes) without any discussion or approval from the other parent. Third, you can set your own weekday routines (e.g., Monday rock climbing or Tuesday salsa classes) without skipping weeks. Fourth, I can tell you nine months from now if I'm free on Wednesday without checking a calendar--nifty! Fifth, hand-offs occur at school which reduces unwanted contact with your ex.
Originally Posted by "AnotherStander"
Lots of confusion over who had the kids when;
"I get Wednesday/Thursday, she gets Monday/Tuesday"
Originally Posted by "AnotherStander"
computers
They have a different computer at each house.
Originally Posted by "AnotherStander"
phone
Forget their phones?! What?!?!
Originally Posted by "AnotherStander"
sometimes one or the other parent completely forgetting it was a switch day.
Never happened in 8+ years.
Originally Posted by "AnotherStander"
homework
This happens 3-4x times per year, especially with long (4+ week) projects. Middle- and high-school textbooks tend to be available online, but sometimes one parent takes a scan/picture of homework for the other.
I have primary physical and legal custody and see my kids every weekday no matter what, so any parenting schedule would've worked, in terms of ensuring I had frequent contact.
Many options. Find what works best for you and yours.
So the day started off with me making a mistake on a home delivery and it being sent to the family house.
This wasn't great, but I contacted her by message to explain.
No response.
Then through the morning several messages back and forth regarding our business. I kept all responses polite and brief.
Then later received a message that she was leaving now to drop some stock off at the studio with the erroneous delivery. She would leave in porch and message me that she had dropped it off.
I notified her that had returned to the flat to await a seperate delivery
W: "I will drop to the flat, but I do not want to speak at all"
Me: ok, thanks"
She arrives. I waved to let her know I had seen where she was parked. She looked away and opened the boot (trunk) She said here's a few more bits of yours ,handing me a bag. I collect the bags, she is actively refusing to even look at me.
I say thanks for this, she says nothing ,gets in car and she drives off.
Right now I can't see her ever even talking to me as a human being, Demonization is really strong, knowing her , I don't think she will ever let this go.
I guess it's good to have zero expectations, just living the pain right now.
Oh geez man I feel for you. It’s such an awful feeling when you’re treated like an unwelcome intruder. Shortly after bd my XW and sd played ariane grande ‘break up with your boyfriend ‘ and had a great time with it but I let it wash over. You need to try and let it wash over you too and stay strong, dignified and keep that chin up!.
Me: early 40's XW: nearly 50 T: 15 M: 5 BD: Jan 19 S:10 SS: 22 SD: 24
Thanks DS9 I think sometimes it's hard to comprehend I know things were not great, I could have done a lot, lot more to make her feel loved and valued, I was very much stuck in a bad place, sure I had my resentments, sometimes I was mad at her, but I never comprehended stopping loving her or leaving. From an empathetic point of view her love must have died a long time ago, and now she is in full hate, anger and surviving abuse mode.
Now she has labelled me as a toxic abuser , as she is a childhood abuse survivor, I don't think those walls will ever come down.
Sounds like it works well for you. The people I talked to were either week on/ week off or 3/2/2 (or some variant- 2/3/2, 2/2/3) so that's what my comparison was regarding.
It's crazy, Jdevast. Lots of us have been through the same thing of being demonized by our WAS. I think alot of WAS's need to do this in order to continue to justify their shitty behavior. The over the top accusations, and exaggerated abuse claims
There's nothing you can do about it. Continue to carry yourself with grace and integrity. Don't let her bait you into a fight, and don't kiss her ass either. Stay right in the middle of the road. She wants you to blow up so she can say "See? You are an abuser!" and then carry on with whatever she feels is best for her.
Show her nothing but strength and continue to make your kids your #1 priority.
This right here is golden ! Read this and read it again and again .
Be calm , friendly and distant . Do not let her bait you . She doesn’t want to say hello or goodbye back ignore it but continue to be polite. smile and say hello and goodbye to your children .
How many people who are truly happy with their life don’t say hello or goodbye to people ? Non sense .
Work on not being so available . Let her feel you not there at the drop of a dime .
I think you are doing really great just work on getting a bit tougher with boundaries for yourself .
Amazing to think anyone thinks I'm doing ok through this, feel like I'm lurching from one emotional state to the other by the hour.
Been having terrible sleep the last week, actual night terrors of wife very matter of factly with other men. Mind is really doing a number on me.
Got something today to help with the sleep and bit by bit this week the flat is starting to be better set up to have the kids from Saturday. ( I still have mixed feelings about this, love to have them but also very paranoid/ suspicious that she only wants this week on, week off so she can live her single social life to the max.
Maybe she will actually miss them while the home is empty, my thoughts are that she will fill all the time with new friends.
My son mentioned the other day that the new main friend had been at theirs every night for 5 days. Don't know what this means, maybe nothing.
Read some other threads last night and one thing that really dawned on me was that my wife no longer has any respect, affection or good feelings towards me at all, let alone love or attraction.
The opposite of most LBH's I guess.
I guess that's made me realise that this will not turn around soon. The grass looks too green right now.
And this yawning emotional hole wont be filled by her.
This causes me great pain and sadness but also a realisation I have to tackle some basic things first, my health, anxiety and weight loss, the kids and the business and then self respect and confidence.
I would really appreciate any advice or resources on building confidence and self esteem.
Today's interactions seemed more positive. ( maybe just because she was being more civil and that feels like a win to me, still very emotionally reactive to her moods)
She contacted me about some orders for our business, Shared some info about our daughters proposed school move.
Appears that she accepts I should attend to view school together.
Requested some info and product examples as she had a meeting with the employment centre about the new welfare benefits claim she is making and arranged to meet me at the studio to pick the stuff up.
Everything was pretty civil.
I walked over to her car when she arrived, she was much more polite, Shared she was not looking forward to being grilled by the benefits agency.
I gave her some advice
We chatted about daughters new school appointment briefly, then she had to go.
I then received 3 messages about 2 hours later. 1st saying how hard the meeting had been and the next 2 about daughters new school viewing and potential start date.
I didn't reply for half an hour. Validated that meeting sounded like it had been tough. And confirmed I would call the school to confirm tomorrow.
I then asked if she could let me know who was sitting the kids tonight and could we make sure everyone had everyone else's numbers ( I was originally supposed to be watching them until latest walls up)
That was 3 hours ago and no response, I feel it was the right thing to ask as their dad, now I'm sure she thinks it's some sort of crazy invasion of privacy or way to control her.
Now my brains doing loops as to whether to follow it up or drop it.
That was 3 hours ago and no response, I feel it was the right thing to ask as their dad, now I'm sure she thinks it's some sort of crazy invasion of privacy or way to control her.
Be honest. Was it?
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'd been thinking about parenting plans a lot this week. It's really early days but should i not know who is watching my kids. Or at least be sure contact numbers are exchanged.
It seems reasonable but yes in hindsight I'm sure she sees it that way
Now if I speak to my kids at all this evening, I'll be snooping.
I'd been thinking about parenting plans a lot this week. It's really early days but should i not know who is watching my kids. Or at least be sure contact numbers are exchanged.
It seems reasonable but yes in hindsight I'm sure she sees it that way
Now if I speak to my kids at all this evening, I'll be snooping.
Are you sure? Because I detect you are trying to convince yourself of this.
Instead of:
"I then asked if she could let me know who was sitting the kids tonight and could we make sure everyone had everyone else's numbers ( I was originally supposed to be watching them until latest walls up)."
What if you had done this:
"Hey "Jdevast's WAS", I was just thinking it would be a good idea if you made sure any sitters you use also have my number, in case of emergencies. Please leave it written down for them. Thanks!"
See the difference. I am not sure you are capable of being subjective here, but I think if you were really honest with yourself you'd admit that you want to know who was "watching" your kid's in case it was an OM. I know because I would in your shoes. The problem is that it is outside of your realm of control and influence. All you can do is hope that the mother of your children makes good decisions for them while they are in her care.
Last edited by Steve85; 11/06/1905:37 PM.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I then asked if she could let me know who was sitting the kids tonight
I feel it was the right thing to ask as their dad,
It's really early days but should i not know who is watching my kids.
Hi JDevast,
You probably should trust that she's competent enough to select a reasonably safe person to watch your kids for a few hours. Neither my ex-wife nor I have ever questioned the details of each other's sitters. If you lack that trust for some reason--which would be odd since you share a business--some recourses include Right of First Refusal and offering to watch the kids when she needs you to so she doesn't have to hire a sitter. My ex-wife and I get along well enough that I've shared sitter networks with her--upon her request.
Argh! I hadn't thought of it like that, I did want to know, maybe i am suspicious but hadn't considered another man watching my kids.
I don't think she would do that, and deep down I do trust her decisions with the kid's.
Time for her to go out has come and gone without response, so I guess I really put my foot in it. It's these things I have to be really careful of. Otherwise it's just the same old fear based me.
So is it best not to mention it again? Not sure I can rectify this.
So is it best not to mention it again? Not sure I can rectify this.
She isn't going to divorce you (or reconcile with you) over this one comment! Don't beat yourself up.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Now if I speak to my kids at all this evening, I'll be snooping.
Did you call your kids Monday, Tuesday? You could use your past routine to guide you as to whether you're calling them to get a little nightly contact in or you're calling them to snoop.
Argh! I hadn't thought of it like that, I did want to know, maybe i am suspicious but hadn't considered another man watching my kids.
I don't think she would do that, and deep down I do trust her decisions with the kid's.
Time for her to go out has come and gone without response, so I guess I really put my foot in it. It's these things I have to be really careful of. Otherwise it's just the same old fear based me.
So is it best not to mention it again? Not sure I can rectify this.
Never mention it again.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I chose to schedule a time the evenings the children were not here to speak to them . If H chose differently and not to speak to them that was his choice the days he did not spend here . Try to set up the nights you do not have them a time to talk or a quick video . This not only was a benefit to the children but to me . They could speak to me . I knew they were safe and happy . H also would spend the day with them but go out until all hours in the night . I always knew who was watching them but he also knew not to cross the line with a sitter I didn’t know or trust . That’s always been our standard though . I may be the odd one here but I feel you should know who is caring for your children .
I used the phone call or video for the children . He learned very quickly when he would try to get on phone the purpose was to speak to them only . Usually he would get on after I spoke to them Or videoed and I would say have a good night then I would hang up .
I do think though some stiches are different in areas . My H didn’t go too hard with fighting over kids . Deep down he knew my family roots are deep . Also my families pockets compared to his .Financially he knew I would out last him and out lawyer him . He said once I know if I take you to court I will not get near anything I want .
If she brings it up use what steve85 posted . Just you would like sitter to have your number if need be . Leave it at that .
I will put out my input on parenting time . By the second night not being in my home my smaller child would ask to come home . Could never have gone a week on week off .
You asked about self improvement. Get dressed nice . Smell nice . Smile a lot . The more you smile and are kind the more it becomes part of you . Get up earlier and go to sleep earlier . Read others stiches. I learned a lot from just reading on here . The more I got out the better I slept .
I also had nightmares . I noticed if I drank they came on . I was only a once in awhile drinker but had some time on my hands out with friends .
Did you read about love languages ? H was clearly words of affirmation. Easy ! He took kids to do something . I said thank you I appreciate. It got to the point he started thanking me I think for just about anything . I think I may have even put in one of my posts about it .Positivity and happiness are contagious.
The most important thing you can do for yourself is not let her emotions run yours . It’s her rollercoaster . Do not get on .
Morning started with requests again for me to leave work materials in the studio porch again for her to pick up without having any contact.
My replies again were all positive and brief.
I then sent her a copy of the bus timetable for my son, for when he travels to school from mine next week.
Received a mail back stating that she will be taking him to school Monday, picking him up from mine and that she will be picking our daughter up from school next week as it's her first week at new school.
None of this had been discussed and was very directorial.
I messaged saying I would also like to pick her up the first week at new school, especially 1st day.
She responds: you will be dropping her off so it will be more balanced if I pick her up, I want as little contact with you as possible.
Me: I would still like to pick her up weeks she is with me, especially the first day. Maybe first day we can both be there. I understand you want as little contact with me as possible. If we can I'd like to get a parenting plan in place as soon as possible. I'm open and flexible, just feel we need some clarity going forward. We don't have to meet but I can send some examples over and let me know what you think.
Her:I will come to drop her off and pick her up first day.i was trying to support my daughter and feel she would want to see me. Don't use our children as pawns to try and control me. I know what you are doing!
Me: I'm sorry you feel that way, I also wanted to be there for her 1st week, and of course she wants to see you. It's a big change among lots of other changes. We can both be there for them and don't have to talk. Trying to do what is best for them. I wouldn't use them as pawns in all of this.
No response
This is really hard, I feel like she is dictating everything and every fumble I make in trying to discuss or assert myself comes across as controlling.
I'd like to contact her and say: I'm finding this all really difficult, I'd like us to co-parent positively and I feel at the moment you are driving everything and when I want to have any input it's coming across as controlling. I would like to move forward, I don't know what you think?
I feel I need to do something to build some sort of bridge and lessen the animosity?
Her: I will be there for her drop offs and pick ups the 1st week whether you are there or not. Please do not talk to me at all, I am there for her. If you want to talk to me at all please use WhatsApp for now.
Me, ok, that's fine, other than drop offs I will be there to pick up on 1st day, I'm good with you picking up rest of the week.
That's true. I'll look at some examples over the next few days. Finding everything a real struggle today.
Ended up that she arrived at studio just as I was leaving. Tried to remain polite but she just ignored me again, won't look me in the face.
Later I see a social media post of a new drawing class and there she is laughing and drinking wine with new friends.
I know this is my own head, but everything in her life looks rosy, and I'm such a figure of hate. It's always been so easy for her socially, so much more of a go out and get it sort of person and I'm very much the opposite, really struggle with social situations.
Can't help but fall into compare and despair thinking sometimes
How do you stay hanging in there when it looks so hopeless.
How do detach when you are so attached, and detachment feels or looks so much like the end.
Having to really fake staying strong, think I'll go out and catch a gig later, try and distract.
What are you doing for GAL? How are your 180s coming? What fun things have you done with the kids?
Until you focus on you, forget her, and start moving forward in life you will stuck in this rut. Those that struggle the most do the poorest job at GAL.We had a guy a while back in a terrible situation that admitted to just sitting at home 6 nights a week and stewing in his own juices. Don't be that guy. Go out and get it. Only you can change that about yourself.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I'm getting out a bit, been to a few gigs, went out last weekend made some new friends which was really good as I've been so isolated. Also caused a bit of an issue as my wife's new friends all saw me out and had to say hi. Want to concentrate on eating and putting some weight back on.
Lost 2 stone over all this and was skinny to start with.
Bought a bicycle which has been good for my independence, I didn't drive and was very inactive.
Need to get back to some creative courses or film nights as well.
At a gig tonight, on my own but know a few people to say hi.
Evening starts out pretty positive , actual friendly chats about issues with kids and work. I video chatted my 6 yr old daughter She tells me mum has said they will spend Xmas eve and morning with her and visit me in the afternoon
We hadn't even discussed it
Wife messages me after and says daughter had told me.
I responded, yeah she did , it's tough, don't know what to think. We should discuss it soon.
Her: sooner the better.
Her: I want your key back to the house.
Me: I don't think that's right. I think I should have a key In case of emergencies
Her: I only backed down and gave you the key back because It he dog was dying. I knew you wouldn't change, I thought you knew what you had done to me. I let my guard down by giving key back. You haven't changed.
Me, that's not fair, I left because you demanded I did and I didn't want to cause any more upset. I'd been advised not to leave the house and I chose to , to make things easier for you.
Her : I bet you didn't tell legal advice you were an abuser. Me: I've been open about everything
Her: I knew I should never have let my guard down I thought you were working on yourself to realise what you have done to me. It's all an act I thought you had changed.
Me: this is why we need agreements in place. It's been a rollercoaster and we are winging it. I still feel I should be first contact in case of emergencies.
Her: I don't trust a word you say.
Me : I'm not going to let myself in, but feel we need an agreement in place.
Her: I'm not talking to you until you give the key back. Me: then maybe we nominate someone who holds emergency key. I'm not sure how to do all this, that's why we need proper advice and agreements going forward.
She is super angry, but I feel I'm right to stand my ground, it's half my house and I shouldn't just bow to her demand to hand the key back.
Am I causing more pressure or doing the right thing?
She tells me mum has said they will spend Xmas eve and morning with her and visit me in the afternoon. We hadn't even discussed it Me: We should discuss it soon. Her: sooner the better.
Any reason you're not getting this done? She's building her parenting plan piece by piece and dictating it to you. When I got divorced, I found a boilerplate plan, made a few changes, my ex made a few changes, and we were done. It's avoided so many conflicts over the years.
Originally Posted by "JDevast"
Her: I want your key back to the house. Me: I don't think that's right. I think I should have a key In case of emergencies Her: I only backed down and gave you the key back because It he dog was dying. I knew you wouldn't change, I thought you knew what you had done to me. I let my guard down by giving key back. You haven't changed. Me, that's not fair, I left because you demanded I did and I didn't want to cause any more upset.
Is it right or wrong to keep the key? I don't know. You sound uncertain. In these situations, it's maybe better to say "Let me think about it," and listen, try to understand, and validate. I get after she stopped talking to you, you offered a compromise that attempts to allay her trust and safety concerns.
My gut feeling is to validate and give the key back. Except my gut gut feelings are always to placate her
Maybe, validate without placating her?
Originally Posted by "Revised"
Her: I want your key back to the house.
You: Let me think about it
Her: I only backed down and gave you the key back because It he dog was dying. I knew you wouldn't change, I thought you knew what you had done to me. I let my guard down by giving key back. You haven't changed.
You: My not handing over the keys just now, makes you feel I don't get what harm my years of alcoholism did to you.
Her: I knew I should never have let my guard down. I thought you were working on yourself to realise what you have done to me. It's all an act I thought you had changed.
You: You feel I haven't even been trying to understand how my alcoholism affected you.
Her: I don't trust a word you say.
You: You don't trust my words, only my actions.
Her: I'm not talking to you until you give the key back.
So today started with a ream of messages from her regarding work
I replied to all and asked how daughter was, said I didn't want to fight and suggested 2 named people who could hold emergency keys.
Her: I don't want to discuss kids, house, or us until I have received legal advice.
Me: I understand
Then throughout the day 30 odd messages back and forth regarding our business.
Several blaming me for small errors.
Her: you made a mistake, it's not the mistake it's your refusal to accept responsibility for it.
Me: it was totally on me, and accept it was my mistake.
Then more and more messages throughout the day, basically very directorial again and looking for any errors on my part.
Haven't bitten or tried to defend myself
Just exhausted and worried now that she is talking legal advice this is going to get messy and she is going to double down on the narrative that I'm an abuser,
I want to regain her trust, feel that I should return the key as a peace offering as I want to be able to co-parent and move forward amicably with some trust.
When abuse is involved I think she can only picture me as some sort of monster, she feels unsafe and is exaggerating the threats of things I may do, like enter the house.
If I'm being honest I was holding onto it as some symbolic thing. It doesn't matter, legally house us still half mine.
I texted her to let her know key was in the bag on step, that I didn't want to fight or for her to feel unsafe.
Her: I'm not buying your b###sh#t, you only gave it back because I'm getting legal advice and victim support.
Me: I'm actually going against advice, because I truly don't want for you to feel unsafe.
Her: I don't trust a word you say, you probably got a key cut, stay away from me. Her: and my friends , stay away from them and don't talk to them about me, make your own friends.
(This is because I had bumped into her friends at the pub , and said hi, hardly anything more)
Me: understood ,I will not speak to any of them, I had only said hi to ------ and did not discuss us.
Her: I have spent a long time nurturing those friendships and you have not, I wouldn't speak to your friends, Boundaries! Her again:stop playing Mr nice guy! You were not nice to me And then suddenly you have worked it all out and are friendly and charming and making me look nuts for ending it with you for abuse. Stop it now!
I haven't responded to the last message, not going to I think. But her anger and rage against me seems insurmountable.
Can't stand that my wife feels I have been such a monster and don't know how to go forward with building any bridges or ever turning this around.
But her anger and rage against me seems insurmountable.
You again placated her, and she again responded negatively. I wonder where your rock bottom is where you'll find the strength to stop placating your ex-wife, take simple steps to avoid conflict like a parenting plan, and start listening/validating instead of justifying/minimizing her views.
The marriage is gone and she's switched from co-parenting to parallel parenting as much as possible--but you still have a business and kids together and she's still has feelings about you. If you make positive changes, you still have opportunities for her to see them. I've also found applying these skills in the workplace has helped with higher customer satisfaction scores and fewer expenditures.
JD, are you starting to understand why we told you not to move out in the first place? She has ZERO respect for you right now. You can't do ANYTHING right. Keep the key and you are a nasty abuser. Give the key back and you are a scared little boy that's bowing to threats of her hiring a lawyer. YOU NEED TO QUIT TRYING TO PLACATE HER!!!!! You are simply digging yourself deeper into the "disrepect" hole.
Originally Posted by Jdevast
If I'm being honest I was holding onto it as some symbolic thing. It doesn't matter, legally house us still half mine.
This is exactly why it DOES matter. The house is still legally yours, yours to live in, yours to come and go as you please. You've ceded all control to her, and what has it gained you? Nothing at all. You disgust her more than ever.
You are dealing with something you don't understand here. She is a WAS, and you have no experience with dealing with a WAS. That's what we're here for, to guide you through this. But you've got to listen! We can only give you the tools, it's up to you to use them.
My advice- cut all contact with her except coordinating kid visitation. Talk to a lawyer ASAP regarding your rights to move back into the house since you left voluntarily. If you can legally do so, MOVE BACK IN. She'll rant and rave and pitch a fit, but that's no different then what she's doing now. The point of moving back in isn't to anger her, it's to regain your self-respect and perhaps some respect from her (although she will never show it).
Quote
I texted her to let her know key was in the bag on step, that I didn't want to fight or for her to feel unsafe.
Quit buying into her BS. She doesn't feel unsafe, she's trying to block you from access to the house, access that is legally your right.
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Her: I don't trust a word you say, you probably got a key cut, stay away from me. Her: and my friends , stay away from them and don't talk to them about me, make your own friends.
(This is because I had bumped into her friends at the pub , and said hi, hardly anything more)
Me: understood ,I will not speak to any of them, I had only said hi to ------ and did not discuss us.
She is controlling and manipulating you. Don't let her. I wouldn't even reply to this kind of crap. There's a time for validation but sometimes silence is better. I mean really, you're supposed to avoid all mutual friends at all cost? Like run the other way if you see them while you're out somewhere? Give me a break!
Quote
I haven't responded to the last message, not going to I think.
GOOD! More of this!
Quote
But her anger and rage against me seems insurmountable.
It is for now. Time and space is all you can do because she has to sort this stuff out herself.
I think a lot of us here have heard the abusive/victim mentality here before in a lot of our situations, all for simply giving an oppinion in the past. Sounds like your W is accusing and projecting exactly what she is doing. Trying to fix and placate to someone who may possibly be delusional (or not) by someone who is currently repulsed by you, is going to land you into a hole of disrespect and be manipulated. Look at all of our sich's here, Wolfman's, Unichen, parts of my own and others. It will eventually die down. You can't nice them or mean them back. Just go NC and don't respond to that kind of toxicity. A few other things I picked up on his when the WAS first learns about what boundaries are, they have a very large misconception about what they are for, and properly how to utilize them. My STBXW saw 3 counselors at the same time and she described in her notes that a boundary in my case was her getting her way with the property agreement. keep in mind that they are being coached and validated by other influences and narrative. In your wife's case she thinks of boundary is something that you're Crossing by simply saying hi to her friends. Although I can understand why she would feel that way it's a simple harmless hi and you're not pursuing anything that crosses her friendships. Boundaries are there to protect you as an individual if someone is doing harm to you or trying to manipulate you. Another thing is when it comes to affairs, spontaneous feelings and resentment When they monkey branch to the next guy, they're going to recoil on you like a snake most likely making you into a villain. So come to expect it and let it wash over you and don't even respond to it
Cwarrior when you say the marriage is gone, do you mean irreconcilable?
I mean gone for now.
Originally Posted by JDevast
Her: and my friends , stay away from them and don't talk to them about me, make your own friends.
Me: understood ,I will not speak to any of them, I had only said hi to ------ and did not discuss us.
Thank you. Yes placated again. And it backfired , I just wanted the hate to stop and try rebuild some trust or safety. Didn't work out so well. It's a lifelong trait I have of making excuses rather than holding my hands up.
I think I get it. She's upset you're talking to her friends. You want her to stop feeling upset, and you want to stop feeling like you're the bad guy, so you say, "I only said hi!" But when you do this you're minimizing / invalidating her feelings. This is anti-DB and reduces feelings of trust and safety. Some sites list regular minimization as a form of emotional abuse, a past complaint you've acknowledged.
You agreement "I will not speak to any of them" when you only said "Hi" is bizarre. It's going to make you look like an alien to them when they gesture at you or say hello, or a liar when you actually respond.
Maybe practice, "Let me think about it" in front of the mirror a few times. The goal is to stop making rash decisions. Most of these rash decisions seem to have worsened your situation.
I'm going to forward her a suggested parenting plan over the weekend.
Fantastic! After you propose a plan and she agrees, makes changes, or responds with her own you're on the fast track to stop arguing about when and where the kids go.
I'm going to forward her a suggested parenting plan over the weekend.
One thing I learned, give people two choices that you are OK with.
I did some research and found two parenting plans I like. Do you like either of these?
Plan A (with details)
Plan B (with details)
If she says Neither then, you say:
Send me your desired, Plan C, and I will look it over.
IF you like it then agree. If not you modify it so it is different Than A,B or C and say how about plad D? Keep alternating with new plans until both agree. If it gets to far, suggest mediation.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I sent over some examples this evening Said these were some examples of the type of parenting plan I was thinking off, I'm open to suggestions, let me know what you think?
No response yet, was a few hours ago, my suspicion is that she will come back with some sort of heavy parallel parenting plan.
Will wait and see, she obviously is seeking legal advice and engaging with victim support now, this is going to embed her narrative that everything I did wrong or everything I didn't do was all abusive.
I sent over some examples this evening Said these were some examples of the type of parenting plan I was thinking off, I'm open to suggestions, let me know what you think?
Instead of sending 1-2 proposals, you sent examples of types of plans you're thinking about?!
Originally Posted by JDevast
No response yet, was a few hours ago, my suspicion is that she will come back with some sort of heavy parallel parenting plan.
That also works! The first step to ending this co-parenting limbo is for one or both of you to make a proposal so the other person can agree or make changes. You're suffering, so I'd act in your shoes.
Yes I sent examples and was going to send over my proposals over the weekend? I sent the examples so she could see the type of structure and language. You feel I should have just gone ahead with the proposals?
Been writing my proposals today. Ready to send in the morning
This post is more of a journal update. Kids are spending the week with me. Wife dropped them off this morning, again no eye contact and refrained from entering property in any way she could while handing over bags.
I kept all focus and conversation on the kids,
Weirdly while out walking with the kids saw my wife in the distance walking on the beach with new friend. Could see they were having a close chat and saw friend lean over and hug her.
Gave me strange emotions, just missed her really and hurt to see her in pain. Didn't point her out to kids
Had a good day with the kids, went to cinema, got take out. But d6 has been vomiting all evening wanted to speak to mum, so I messaged wife about a vid call
Her ok, give me 5 mins
( admit this made me suspicious)
Called, could see my wife was at someone's place and had been drinking, she couldn't see me but I could see screen and could see she was emotional speaking to daughter.
She offered to come over if d6 was sick again, and to let her know if sick again,
I reassured her not to worry, I had it covered and would keep her posted
So 30mins later I update that d6 is still vomiting every 10 -20 mins but not to worry, had her in the bath, that was at 8pm
No response until 9.30 pm
Her: give Her a cuddle for me.
Me: will do, just putting her back to bed, will let you know if anything changes.
Don't know why any of this matters, maybe it's just the reality of the situation, I'm obviously still deeply attached, feel jealous and suspicious about things like "give me 5 mins" or the gaps in response.
I know if she was with someone it's completely out of my control.
Are those feelings natural or evidence I am controlling
Are those feelings natural or evidence I am controlling. Just processing
The situation [censored], and those feelings are normal. Be kind to yourself just now.
Originally Posted by Jdevast
Been writing my proposals today. Ready to send in the morning
Fantastic! That should have a big impact.
Originally Posted by JDevast
But d6 has been vomiting all evening wanted to speak to mum, so I messaged wife about a vid call
Her ok, give me 5 mins
This is great. You're cooperating to make life as good as possible for your daughter.
Originally Posted by JDevast
I reassured her not to worry, I had it covered and would keep her posted
So 30mins later I update that d6 is still vomiting every 10 -20 mins but not to worry, had her in the bath, that was at 8pm
I would omit telling the first bit, telling her how she should feel about her daughter being sick. It's okay for her to worry. Google: "3 Phrases That Are a Lot More Helpful to Say Than Don't Worry."
Originally Posted by JDevast
Me: will do, just putting her back to bed, will let you know if anything changes.
10pm Her: how is she? Me: still the same, quite regular and both ends now. 11.50pm Her: is she sleeping now? Me : in and out of sleep, keeps waking to be sick, but getting longer stretches of sleep. Her: I don't know what to do. Me: it's ok, I've got it covered
12.15 Her: can I come over in the morning? Me, yes of course
5.00am Voice mail received, sounded like accidental pocket call of her walking 5.01 Her: I've just woken up worried What time can I come over.
I was awake at 5 but waited til 7 to reply. Me: whenever you want is ok, both are awake now.
8am Her: I'll be over soon, please tell her, do you need me to bring anything? Me: I will, see you soon, I'll pop out to shops when you get here.
So she arrived, came into flat for first time, she seemed nervous, daughter was asleep, so she sat with s12. I offered her tea which she accepted, very little conversation towards me, pretty guarded but I retained a Pma as best I could joking with my son, and told wife how d6 had been. Offered Wife breakfast, she was still guarded and declined. She asked for a cigarette
Eventually daughter woke, wife comforted her, I crouched by bed and focused on being as positive and open as possible Went to the shops and on return wife said she had changed her mind about breakfast.
Conversation flowed a little easier although it was just, school and work stuff and some past stuff about the kids.
We went out for a cigarette together, I told her I had written down some proposals and ideas for the parenting plan for situations like this and would send over later today.
She seemed open to this, no mention of lawyers etc,
She just said, yes that's good, there's other things, then she paused, like Christmas etc.
Told her we could discuss it at a later time.
She then raised messaging at 5am. I validated " you woke up worried? Her: yes, I accidentally sent a voice message of me breathing lying in bed, I put a meditation on to get back to sleep.
She said bye to the kids and offered to come back later, thanked me for tea and breakfast and left.
I did notice that throughout the time at mine, her phone was pinging like crazy, she's very guarded about her phone.
But all in all things seemed calmer ish, nothing to read too much into I guess, as much as my mind is doing cartwheels, Just find it helpful to get this all out there.
So I guess my assumption that things seemed calmer were rather foolish.
Wife returned this evening to see sick daughter6 and bathed her,
While in the bathroom I caved in and scooped on her phone, only opened 1 stream of messages with new best friend, Wife apologising for being in tears in front of everyone last night,
A stream of earlier messages really bad mouthing me, saying how I always change approach, how controlling I was, How they couldn't believe they hard to deal with these #####'s Stating she didn't buy any of my b.s. about returning the key, how it was all about control.
Notifying friend that domestic abuse support group was now in place along with legal advice. How little I'd been doing at work this week
After the bath she raised work and her concern about number of orders we had, I validated " you feel anxious that we are falling behind?" She said yes, we need to get on it.
I made some suggestions for how we could resolve it this week.
She said she had felt like she had been working for me this week I replied I'm sorry you feel that way, I didn't know you felt that way.
This seemed to anger her, so I left the room.
A little later she raised Christmas and how she was not going to play happy families and pretend nothing was wrong, that this was in no way a happy family that there was no way she was going to cook for me or have lunch at mine, She then suggested having Xmas lunch out somewhere neutral.
I said that could be a good idea, that I had written some ideas and proposals down and would send to her ( haven't been able to today as on sick duty all day)
She said she would look at it but wanted to wait until she had been to her domestic violence support group. She then said I don't believe anything you say anyway, you always change tact and say the right things as soon as things get difficult and it's all an act.
I started to validate, got as far as "You feel that ..." and she stormed off past me back to see daughter.
Didn't raise it again , confirmed details for kids tmrw , I thanked her for coming over and she left.
All really awkward.
Have to communicate tomorrow about work and daughter, Do I just continue validating when I get the chance, it's coming off as fake right now I think, She's got all her walls and emotional abuser radar in full effect at the moment.
11.50pm Her: is she sleeping now? Me : in and out of sleep, keeps waking to be sick, but getting longer stretches of sleep.
I'd be cautious about setting a pattern that you respond to your ex at all hours of the night.
Originally Posted by JDevast
5.01 Her: I've just woken up worried What time can I come over. I was awake at 5 but waited til 7 to reply. Me: whenever you want is ok, both are awake now.
Good job waiting until 7am to reply!
I'd be cautious about setting a pattern where she's in charge and/or the one to provide comfort when the kids are sick. I recall when son was sick, you said she texted: "Son is sick; no open evening." In contrast you're sending updates every 2hrs, and letting her come to your house and share custody time. Are you unsure how to treat or comfort your D? The video call was different because that request was initiated by your D. I lost additional respect for my ex-wife back when she'd call me to help anytime the kids were sick.
Good points regarding caregiving. I need to back off as well, catching myself frequently wanting to ask questions to ascertain how she feels, Emotionally pretty ragged and weak right know.
Don't know why any of this matters, maybe it's just the reality of the situation, I'm obviously still deeply attached, feel jealous and suspicious about things like "give me 5 mins" or the gaps in response.
I know if she was with someone it's completely out of my control.
Are those feelings natural or evidence I am controlling
It's normal. With time you will care less and less until you get to where you don't care at all. You won't care where she is or who she's with, it won't even be on your radar. My XW could Facetime me from bed with 3 naked guys in the background and it would have zero impact on me other than making me chuckle a little, I am not exaggerating in the least, I am that detached from her now. I know that's hard for you to imagine right now but you'll get there too.
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So I guess my assumption that things seemed calmer were rather foolish.
We don't call it the roller coaster for nothing. There will be ups and downs!
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While in the bathroom I caved in and scooped on her phone, only opened 1 stream of messages with new best friend, Wife apologising for being in tears in front of everyone last night,
A stream of earlier messages really bad mouthing me, saying how I always change approach, how controlling I was, How they couldn't believe they hard to deal with these #####'s Stating she didn't buy any of my b.s. about returning the key, how it was all about control.
Notifying friend that domestic abuse support group was now in place along with legal advice. How little I'd been doing at work this week
Doesn't matter. Those are her feelings at this moment in time, and conversations with her enablers will look like that. Her feelings can and will change in a week, month or year. Until then expect more of this. Just quit snooping, it's only messing with your PMA.
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She said she had felt like she had been working for me this week I replied I'm sorry you feel that way, I didn't know you felt that way.
This seemed to anger her, so I left the room.
You don't have to validate every little thing she says. Sometimes just nod or say "mm hmm". Validation loses it's impact if overused.
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She then said I don't believe anything you say anyway, you always change tact and say the right things as soon as things get difficult and it's all an act.
This is an accurate view of how she sees your changes. She thinks it's all an act, just tricks to try and get her back after which you will revert back to the old you. 25 doesn't post here anymore but she used to tell people 180's + time = change she can believe in. Time is CRITICAL. You've got to show consistent change over a long period of time before she believes you've really changed.
So I sent over email with proposals for co-parenting plan,
Recieved an immediate mail back:
Her: this is for co-parenting, I want a parallel parenting plan as I want as little contact with you as possible, I will get some advice on this and what you have suggested. You don't seem to take into account that you have been abusive or the impact that has had on me. This makes me think you don't believe you have been.
Me: it was not my intention to minimise any harm on my part. I will look at examples of parallel parenting plans and if you could send over what you were thinking of. Sent a link - is this article relatable to how you see parallel parenting?
So now, I feel really stuck, despite some reasonable communication over the kids, she is ramping up the emotional abuse claims, I fully accept my behaviour in the past has been damaging to the relationship, zero accountability on her part. What do i do, continue to validate, pull back from any contact, I can't even challenge this narrative, And sickened she sees me this way.
My feeling is she will now try and start dictating parenting plan.
Is best course of action to openly state: I feel you are trying to dictate all the terms, ( it's clear every time I don't do exactly what she wants, she calls controlling behaviour)
Or do I just hear what she has to say, agree to think about it and seek negotiation.
Huge temptation to call her out on her controlling behaviour and the narrative of abuse.
Do not challenge the verbal or emotional abuse narrative especially in writing through email communications this can be used potentially in a family court as evidence. She is baiting you to give an admittance of guilt because she is angry with you for whatever reason she's made up in her head. Most likely she's being coach to buy either a paralegal or an attorney four divorce support group for women for counseling that is validating in supporting her narrative. a lot of them feel this way and talk this way and try and entrap you when their love turns cold. Don't even acknowledge it just stick to the parenting plan through email communications only. a lot of them take on the victim mindset and do this a lot it's very common here in a lot of our stitches. weather and there are some legitimacy to her claim or not or gray areas or something in between her feelings being acknowledged by verbal communication and written communication can be used as evidence. Be fair be cooperative be pleasant but do not acknowledge that abuse narrative. Don't let her guilt shame or manipulate you either in giving up any custody any of the marital assets or the marital home. Hopefully and eventually she will cool her jets and die down. Early in my sich it was like this as well as Unichen's and still is. Do not give them any ammunition to work with against you. But be assertive and stand up for yourself if necessary but try not to be too defensive. If it gets to that point set the boundary and end the conversation.
Just journaling Every day seems like an emotional struggle.
D6 started her new school today, agreed to meet wife at school gates so we could both take her in. Honestly it's a struggle just seeing her, hoping for some glimpse of hope, both focussed on daughter but can't help looking at her. She was quick to leave, very guarded again, I confirmed we would both pick her up, and she stated she would pick up following days as we had discussed last week, I said if that's what you would like, ( plans have changed quite often this week) she rolled her eyes.
Agreed to speak later re: work
Day goes on and several phone calls to and fro about work, ( this was a change as everything has been by message for a considerable amount of time) Although all business related things were all pretty amicable. We both made a lot of headway at work today.
Go to pick up d6. I'm waiting at the gates, she walks up looks in my direction, I smile ,she walks right by.
I finish my cigarette and walk in, say hi to her, didn't you see me? Her: no where were you? Me: at the gates, you walked right by me Her: I didn't see you, I would have said hi. ( her eyesight isn't the best, I believed her, it's more the emotional effect on me every perceived slight has)
Picked our d6 up, she had a great 1st day, I suggested wife take her out for a bit, and I'll go back to work till 6 to finish up. She agrees.
So wife drops kids back at mine at 6, again she doesn't want to enter flat and clearly has somewhere to be, she asks if we are exchanging Friday or Saturday? I reply Friday like you suggested is good.
She starts talking about whether I will have enough time to wash all their clothes
I say that's no problem. She switches to, I lost a day this week and need a day to sort their rooms out.
I say that's fine, Saturday morning is fine
She leaves, and within a minute I'm like , hold on I just got played there. She's been invited out Friday night.
So sat here thinking, do I say to her, hi, I've been invited out Friday night, can we do change Fri or will you still need time for their rooms?
Another option, wait until Friday, then call her on her BS. She can "sort" the rooms with the kids there, in fact she should have the kids doing this.
H"W, hey something came up and I need to drop the kids off right now" W:"Bla bla bla I am not home" H:"How long till you are home?" W"Bla bla bla not for a while" H:"When you ask me for a favor and tell me you need time to sort out the kids room and then bla bla...I feel like I am being lied to. If you want me to do favors for in the future, ______
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
She leaves, and within a minute I'm like , hold on I just got played there. She's been invited out Friday night.
While "Let me think about it" may have been best..
Don't beat yourself up too much, remember if you said "No" to watching the kids, that wouldn't stop her from going out if she really wanted to--it'd just mean she had to find alternate childcare.
Thanks guys. The kicker is this honestly the first time I ever felt she was lying to me.
I always really valued her honesty.
Not sure what to make of this.
I've felt about my W like that for a long time, but now thinking about a lot of things I realized she had been lying to me for a while and I was in denial. About finances, about if "we're ok", etc.
Last edited by job; 11/14/1901:47 PM. Reason: added link to new thread
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
