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I assumed that but wasn’t sure. However, as I said, it may be different in other places, but I was allowed to continue to carry my youngest step-daughter on my insurance after I was divorced from her dad, so that is why I mentioned it. Maybe I just have a suspicious mind but that just sounds like an excuse and it’s a red flag to me. Of course, my opinion is pure speculation because I don’t know the laws nor do I know what she’s thinking so there may very well be a very logical reason.


Me 52, H53
Bomb drop 9/29/2014
Divorce from XH final 12/17/2014
Marriage #2 12/31/2019
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Originally Posted by AndrewP
I do know as a certainty that she can't currently manufacture the time for a regular job and hasn't been able to for some time mainly due to kid issues and related appointments which can take her away unexpectedly and at short notice. Melt-downs at school are now uncommon but were a real problem for a while I know. She's done a variety of entrepreneur things but then been blind-sided by either health or kid issues or both.

Everyone's life is certainly different but one thing most of us have in common is life throws us challenges. I have a friend who, Lord knows has a lot to work on with herself, but she has a child with both Down Syndrome and Autism. He's in his teens but functions at like 3 or perhaps 4? - at least in some ways but needs 24/7 care and supervision. He's beyond a handful but even divorced she was able to hold a full-time although flexible job along with doing some music performance, speaking and even other work. Yes she has help but her ex H is forever taking her to court for things the judge quickly throws out and she struggles in many ways. If S has time to be in a play and pose as a psychic, she should clearly have the time to pick up a few shifts here and there if she wants to, especially in this economy where pretty much anyone who wants a job can get a job - at least in the USA employers are constantly looking for just about ANYONE to fill open positions. The question is, does she want to? It doesn't sound like it. She may or may not be looking for someone to rescue her - no one can really know for sure yet. But what is for sure is her history shows she jumps pretty quickly into Rs with men - often marrying them.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Yes - I could "do better" no doubt but I'm a big believer in being grateful for what is placed in front of me and not looking enviously at greener grass.

I think the red flags are pretty clear and I think you see them. The challenge is getting you to believe that you actually deserve and can find better. The thing is, you won't find better if you lock down with anyone who presents themselves. It's one thing to look for "greener" grass and another to have to plant the grass and get it to grow.

Originally Posted by AndrewP
Oh and as an aside, B had suggested that she move in on date #3 - so we're way past that now laugh

I give you a huge A for honesty! But what kind of person suggests moving in with what is pretty much a stranger on the third date? And it doesn't seem to really move the needle with you. Perhaps I'm the one that is out of touch but I'm not sure the 30th date would not be too soon - I would think the 3rd for certain has to be. Mind you, this really is more about the asker not the askee - This is just so foreign to me - move in on the 3rd date! WOW!!!!


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Originally Posted by Ginger1
Do her kids go to school?
What an odd question. The boys are 12 and 17 so .... yes ?

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I appreciate everyone's concerns and kind words so don't think that I'm ignoring you. I do agree with what I posted early on in this that I am definitely the hunted and not the hunter.

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I had an unexpected windfall yesterday afternoon when as I was walking down my drive to check my mail (I work from home Wednesdays) someone was walking up it. A matter of minutes later, a handshake, and exchange of a noticeable wad of cash and I no longer own an old Corolla. I clocked out and went to the license bureau to turn in the plates and then the bank to deposit the cash.

On the way back I stopped off at the flower shop to pick up a bouquet for S in celebration of my windfall and her audition and was subjected to some significant teasing and cross examination. Decisions were made on how sentimental to make the arrangement that were taken out of my hands. It looked lovely.

I picked S up after her audition (she doesn't think she got the part - it was the lead and the only part for a mature woman), we had a nice visit and she liked the flowers. She was very appreciative of the non-judgmental shoulder to complain on when she was feeling overwhelmed yesterday. She is working through her own issues in her own way and I am not involved except as a person to listen.

I am choosing to accept S as the person she is. Not as the person she could be / should be in my own or others' imagination. Whether that is an appropriate person to involve in my life is a completely separate question. It is not for me to try to change her or even to suggest changes that she could make. I know that I have resented it when people have tried to make me in to someone that I'm not or to suggest that I am "less than" because of the choices I've made in my own life. I'm not defending her, nor her choices. Just stating that her choices as a grown woman are her's to make as are the consequences.

This is where I've made mistakes in the past. Believing in the potential. What I saw in the person and not necessarily who that person is. And at times we can hope that the person that they are will shine in unexpected ways because they are themselves and not a construct of our hopes, dreams and expectations.


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Quote
Originally Posted by Ginger1
Do her kids go to school?
What an odd question. The boys are 12 and 17 so .... yes ?


Not an odd question here in the states where many people home-school their children.

You're right not to try making her into something she isn't. The big question is, can you maintain your objectivity about whether she is an appropriate match for you?

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I didn’t think it was an odd question either. I’m not trying to put words in G’s mouth, but I was wondering the same thing because if they are in school, there should be an opportunity there for her to pick up a few hours of work without having to worry about paying for child care. I have no idea if that was G’s line of thinking but it is what I was wondering.


Me 52, H53
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My purpose of that question is why can’t she work while they are in school ? They are of self sufficient ages too where they can take care of themselves for a little while after school..... I’m also a single mother and I work a full time career and getting a part time gig . I’m just curious why her single
Motherdom is keeping her from holding down a job. So, not really an off question. I didn’t know if they were homeschooled something to that effect.

But with you just said. You should make sure that if you accept her as she is, you don’t try to change her, bit you also don’t try to rescue her and it is up to her to live with the life her choices provides.

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Andrew:

You have a lot of women looking after you on this thread, so I try not to jump in. I have been holding my tongue, but I want to tell you about someone in my life that strikes me as similar to how S lives.

I know a woman who has three daughters. The oldest is about to finish college, the middle one is a professional dancer who lives across the country and has married her partner, and the youngest is a junior in HS who drives. Her husband owns his own business, an auto body shop, and he doesn't make a lot of money. The youngest still gets free lunch and is on the state insurance for low income families. I have known her about 10 years. She has not worked since I have known her, and has always had a reason (the dancer needed to be carted around, the younger one didn't drive, the husband needed help, etc.).

This person (I just don't think of her as a friend anymore) constantly needs money or legal help, outside my specialty. Things that take me time to read up on, etc. She constantly talks of wanting to get together for lunch, but is always too busy (and of course when we do go, I always pay). The one I time I asked her to do something for me (drive me to the airport) she bailed on me at the last minute. But she calls me once a week (on a Tuesday am). If she calls any other time, she wants help with something, but she first tries to get me to volunteer by talking about how worried, frightened, etc. she is. Only when I put her off for several phone calls does she outright ask. Her husband is over 50, his job is physically demanding. They have no health insurance, no retirement, no reserves, very bad credit, and rent a home in our expensive area.

Having been manipulated for help so many times and not seeing any other indicia of an actual friendship, I had enough. I started speaking up. I gently asked her why she is not working now that the youngest daughter drives. She says she is too busy (and I'm the single mom who owns her own practice). She says her husband needs office help at the shop (even after they hired a FT person for a not very busy shop). The daughter at home is never home. She does nothing for this child.

I expressed concern about her husband and the physical nature of his job and their lack of health insurance after she told me he had to take some time off work for an injury. She complains about physical problems but says she can't go to the doctor because of the cost. I have suggested she get a job that would at least provide health insurance. I let her know about jobs I learned about. She finally, in a pissed off and brazen tone, said something like, "Look, I live the life I want and my choices are my own. My husband and I have chosen this life. We are good with it. I have accepted that this is my life." My response, so glad to hear that.

In choosing to live what I view as an irresponsible lifestyle, she is choosing to live on an edge that I could not. I helped her for 10 years because I only thought about the kids and I felt bad for them (we met under circumstances where not helping her child hurt my child). Only when she brazenly told me this was her life choice did I get it. And she is right. That is her life and her choice. Guess what, I provide no more free legal or monetary help. She gets the choice, she gets the consequences. I get a choice too.

The calls are becoming less and less frequent (and I never call her). I've tried to shake her off, but she keeps coming back. When she mentions getting lunch, I say nothing. When she tells me about a new legal or money problem (and there always is one), I just say "I'm sure you'll get it worked out."

There are just people who choose to live differently than those of us who feel the need to get up, go to work, make sure we have insurance, make sure we have retirement, etc. In my experience, with this woman and a few others I've known like her (I did legal aid for the first 10 years of my career), they don't really change. As in Dr. Phil it must be working for them kind of thing.

I'm sure S is lovely. But please, make sure that anything you do for her you give without expectation that the future will be different. I'm sure, as a giver, you will want to give and give. She seems like the kind of person who is used to taking, taking, and taking. You don't want to end up resenting her.

I think the concern people are trying to express is that you fall pretty quickly and deeply into these things and seem to keep charging forward despite some pretty big flags that seem very inconsistent with how you come across and the values you appear to hold. While it is a necessary skill to be able to recognize these red flags, as a fixer/saver/sharer, you also have to be able to act on them. It seems to me that as someone who comes across being very responsible with money (a frequent topic on your threads), that being with someone who is not will be very difficult for you to put up with, and could cause a lot of problems for you both in the future.

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I agree with others - the only excuse for her not working at this point is that she's comfortable living just off of child support and whatever alimony or temporary support she gets. Her bringing up the oldest aging out of child support is a red flag - means that she's going to have difficulty plugging that hole in her budget.

Honestly, even if her 12 and 17 year olds need intensive help and supervision after school, she should be able to take a morning job of some kind. My guess is her support would go down if she worked and she's not willing to make that leap to self-sufficiency (which seems odd if she's university educated). She may be forced into action once her oldest turns 18, it would be interesting to see if that motivates her to start job hunting or if she's going to just wait until the trainwreck happens and look to be rescued.

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Furthermore, she's Canadian. What good could come of this?

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Originally Posted by OwnIt
I think the concern people are trying to express is that you fall pretty quickly and deeply into these things and seem to keep charging forward despite some pretty big flags that seem very inconsistent with how you come across and the values you appear to hold. While it is a necessary skill to be able to recognize these red flags, as a fixer/saver/sharer, you also have to be able to act on them.

I obviously can only speak for myself, but you could not have hit the nail more squarely on the head OwnIt! What you provided was so well written and so well spoken and on target.

Originally Posted by OwnIt
You have a lot of women looking after you on this thread, so I try not to jump in. I have been holding my tongue,

There are several people on this board who I really look up to and hold in rather high regard for their ability to provide solid, well reasoned, educated, and well written comments. You clearly are in that group. I'd really encourage you to "jump in" more often - and not just with Andrew but with myself or any of the folks here that can benefit from another well spoken voice.


DonH
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Me 56
WAW-EXW 55
Met 11/95 / Married 5/00
Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06
4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
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