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I feel your pain Wolfman! I know you're mad. Mad is another way of saying you're hurting. I've been there.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
OVERRNBW look do you really believe you treated her badly?


I know I did. You probably weren't as bad as me, but here I am with my W again.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
I did everything for my w. I did the food shopping, cleaning, landscaping, bills, pick up the kids from school, help them with their hw, balance the check book and cleaned up after dinner. I have 2 careers and always put my family first. Yet she says I took her for granted and did not love her.


This story is as old as time. All that stuff you did goes right out the door when she feels unloved, uncherished! When you guys started dating, is this how you wooed her? Or were you going out and having fun, talking on the phone, learning about each other, teasing each other, playing slap n' tickle? I think I know which one!!!!

Originally Posted by Wolfman
You asked if there is anything I could make positive growth on, sure I guess the way I speak and phrase things. I speak bluntly and I guess that was hard for her when we got older. I always spoke that way and she was fine with it for 20 years. But sometimes she said I was mean how I asked her things.


Your attitude comes off as this is not that big of a deal, but how we say things matters more than what we say. You're ultimately the one who has to live with it, either way.

Originally Posted by Wolfman
Is this a new “bug” that a lot of women get? I have spoke to a few others who said they just love being single and not having to answer to anyone.
Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do....maybe they are still heartbroken, maybe no one is interested, maybe they are lying? Women tell men they aren't ready to date and then the right guy comes along two seconds later and they're ready for him.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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Originally Posted by Wolfman

...
Today I was eating lunch with some colleagues who happen to be female. One lost her husband to a heart attack 7 years ago and another to suicide 8 months ago. They were saying some real interesting things. How they love being alone, that they can come and go as the please, no one to answer to, they can eat what they want and when they want it, they will never get married again. Both these women are in their 40s. I asked you don’t want a companion? Both said no they don’t want to be tied down, they enjoy their freedom and their kids. Is this a new “bug” that a lot of women get? I have spoke to a few others who said they just love being single and not having to answer to anyone. Is it no one wants to work on anything? That we have become a culture of very selfish people? That we want what we want and no one else will tell us otherwise? What is going on today? Sorry for the ramble but I have a lot on my chest and I am just getting angry!!! Thanks for listening!!
...


Just my 2 cents...

1. They lost their H... not wanting to be in start a new MR with someone else is not necessarily the same as them wanting to leave their H or MR.

2. Times are different today... in a lot of situations both spouses work with relatively equal paying jobs, so W don't necessarily need a bread earner anymore, where as back in the day, a lot of W may stay in bad abusive MR because they are financially dependent.

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Hi Wolf,

Do you think W thinks of you differently now?

Do you think she misses you?

Have you made significant changes to the way you interact with her?


"What is best for my kids is best for me"
Amor Fati
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Originally Posted by Ready2Change

Hi Wolf,

Do you think W thinks of you differently now?

Do you think she misses you?

Have you made significant changes to the way you interact with her?


I do think she thinks of me differently. She has said a few times, I see how you have changed. That I am more calm and listen a lot better. More loving all around with the kids.

As far as her missing me, I doubt it. Or at least that’s what she shows me. The way I interact with her, that’s a tough one. I am kinda torn. Sometimes I joke around with her but then I feel like that is pursuing so I stop but then it seems like I am cold. So I just try to be neutral. There are so many conflicting articles and podcasts on how you should interact with an ex. I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong. I just know I am coming to the end of my rope with her. Like many people have said, why should I keep giving when I am getting nothing in return. Someone else deserves that love and attention and I deserve it back. I deserve so much better. And even though you all have told me that this is how she feels “right now” may not be that way a week from now, or a month or a year. Which could very well be true but I don’t want to wait anymore.

Originally Posted by LovingIt
Originally Posted by Wolfman

...
Today I was eating lunch with some colleagues who happen to be female. One lost her husband to a heart attack 7 years ago and another to suicide 8 months ago. They were saying some real interesting things. How they love being alone, that they can come and go as the please, no one to answer to, they can eat what they want and when they want it, they will never get married again. Both these women are in their 40s. I asked you don’t want a companion? Both said no they don’t want to be tied down, they enjoy their freedom and their kids. Is this a new “bug” that a lot of women get? I have spoke to a few others who said they just love being single and not having to answer to anyone. Is it no one wants to work on anything? That we have become a culture of very selfish people? That we want what we want and no one else will tell us otherwise? What is going on today? Sorry for the ramble but I have a lot on my chest and I am just getting angry!!! Thanks for listening!!
...

2. Times are different today... in a lot of situations both spouses work with relatively equal paying jobs, so W don't necessarily need a bread earner anymore, where as back in the day, a lot of W may stay in bad abusive MR because they are financially dependent.

Today times are different. I’m sorry for what I am about to say but the whole idea of both parents working is what ruined families. Look I know today unfortunately both have to work most of the time because of how expensive everything is. But not having one parent around to raise their children has been horrible. And with social media it’s “killing” relationships. Many people think they are missing out on something because what other people post, or their life is not that exciting. I know social media is one of the ruination of my m. My w was constantly comparing out life to everyone else’s. That’s all I ever heard about. How so and so did this or so and so would do that. And I would tell her that is not always true what they post and we do have a great life. But she was blinded by FB. I wish I could sue them for ruining my m!!!


M:42 XW:41
T:19 M: 15
D:13 S:10
BD: 8/10/18
Moved out: 8/18
Moved in: 9/18/18
Moved out: 4/22/19
D papers signed 11/4/19
D final 3/18/20
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Originally Posted by Wolfman

...
And with social media it’s “killing” relationships. Many people think they are missing out on something because what other people post, or their life is not that exciting. I know social media is one of the ruination of my m. My w was constantly comparing out life to everyone else’s. That’s all I ever heard about. How so and so did this or so and so would do that. And I would tell her that is not always true what they post and we do have a great life. But she was blinded by FB. I wish I could sue them for ruining my m!!!
...


Smart phones have also impacted relationships - both good and bad. In one way it helps people connect digitally, but also people are more distracted in person. I know my WW and myself would often sit around and be on our phones browsing newsfeed / social media, or checking e-mail, instead of living in the moment with each other. Not to mention all the secure messaging makes it easier to start casually messaging OP.

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W,

So Facebook ruined your life WTF??? Based on the info you gave here over the last year IMO your relationship dynamic "ruined your life". You were together for 8 years before you had kids am I am guessing life was pretty good then you were probably doing things as a couple, you were playing softball going to the gym and she probably had her own things going on. Then you had kids and early on it was great your guys were new parents and you were doing family things and life was great. Kids start getting older and your W takes on the role as the main caretaker for the kids and most of her attention goes to the children. Suddenly Wolf is number 3 on the list and he's not getting his needs met. So he doubles down on the housework, grocery shopping, yard work, stops playing baseball and going to the gym. Now as for your W, she doesn't want a butler she wants a H who understands her, appreciates her, listens to her and treats her special. So now Wolf is getting bitter that he is doing all these things and he is still not getting his needs met so he tries even harder to make her happy and takes another job for 5 vacations a year. Guess what she's still not getting what she needs and Wolf is still not getting what he needs. W can't figure out how wolf can be so stupid to not know what she needs. He should know! So now the passive aggressive comments are thrown at wolf and he doesn't stand up for himself or argues with her to defend himself. W loses more respect for him because he allows the disrespect and guess what now his daughter is starting to take notice. Wolf gets reinforcements from his friends and friends wives "I don't get it you do everything around the house, yard, take her on all these vacations how can she not be happy?". So now Wolf is sure it's her or MLC or something. Outsiders never know what truly is going on inside. If that was the key to happiness rich people would never get divorced. So now youre two people who are angry, bitter about not getting your needs met and it came to a point that your W is done. IMO you're both equally unhappy it's just that you're identity is REALLY tied to being married and you're able to think logically about time with kids, finances and without working hard on yourself you will more then likely end up in the same dynamic again.

My story is the same in that my ex and I were two people who had no clue on how to communicate and meet each other's needs while on the outside seeming to have it all.

My advice to you is stop blaming, Facebook, MLC, the fact that your W can support herself and doesn't need you to take care of her financially and learn from your mistakes. Learn to listen, communicate, command respect and stay away from covert contracts.

The beauty of it all is those things will be what brings her back.

Lastly, if you can have zero expectations, be playful with your W if you want. You should be playful with all women and it's good practice for you.


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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Been saying this for months with the smartphone, the FB, The politics, news feeds, reality shows, tv media distractions, the fact that once they ain't feeling it, they are one click away from replacing you...Too many choices...They have 100's of dating apps at their disposal. My M started going to hell once the smartphones got into our home around 2015. Nothing but distraction and lack of connection. Add to that the two income trap in our society. Wolf the two "widows" in their 40's who are absolutely loving their freedom. It just goes to show you how we are utilitarians, for what we can provide. Children, life insurance, financial security, experiences, travel, being social, spending time with the only people they may ever love unconditionally, their kids. They get a whiff of what life "could be like" from influences like social media, reality shows, tv, Rom Coms, their friends, everything is a comparison to you and what you bring to the table. Its a deluded sense of reality to them on a hamster wheel of "the grass is greener" compartmentalized into check boxes.

Does he do this for me _✔ Does he make me feel this way about myself? ✔ Does he provide this experience ? ✔ Does he still make me laugh? ✔ Does he greet me everyday at the door with his tail wagging? ✔ Is he boring? ✔ Can I do better? ✔ Do I know my worth and does he provide it? ✔ What would life be like 5 years from now with him if I stayed based on current behavior and conditions? ✔ Are we still compatible? ✔ Why does he spend so much time on his own personal pursuits and doesn't pay attention to me? Does he fulfil my expectations? ✔ Is it me or is it him? ✔ Is he romantic? ✔ Does he spend money on me to have a good time? ✔ XYZ's husband does/feels this this and that for his wife. ✔ Can I do better? ✔ I'm not feeling emotions from or for him and not feeling sexual torwards him? ✔ Is it him or is it me? ✔ I don't feel romantical anymore. Maybe I should google articles on it, seek therapy, and talk with GF's and family about it?  (More validation justifying their viewpoint from a biased perspective) Do I trust him? Well he doesn't make me feel XYZ so it must mean I don't. Are his actions consistent? Is their another man out there or hobby/lifestyle/person that can fulfil my needs? What do I want to do with my life if this is all there is? ✔ How much responsibility does he handle in comparison to what I think I do? Why doesn't he put me first above his family, activities, and passions? Are we growing together? Does he fulfil my desires? Is he as thoughtful as I am with romantical gifts?

Its amazing when you look at bigger picture how they are completely smitten, always in the mood for sex when you first meet them, they think you are an independent go getter who is new and exciting, spontaneous, mysterious and interesting,  they want a relationship, they want marriage, they have been 8 are you expected to be an entertaining dancing monkey consistently? Either you are the steward of the relationship, or they are. And when they are. Expect the list if expectations to be never ending and never satisfied.

I'm only illustrating this to show a comparison and exaggeration botg Men's and Women's though processes, feelings, logic, emotions, and perspective can EASILY SABOTAGE A RELATIONSHIP. Im not saying we are all like that, that the generalizations are all the same, but it is a learning tool of how to relate to how they think much differently from us  In her mind, once the rings come off she has checked out. Once she removes her emotional attachment from you, she pulls away like a stranger. In your mind it isn't over until the D papers are signed. In your mind. This radical change in behavior makes you feel betrayed and you can't understand what is going on and for what reasons. In your mind logically you know with enough patience, skill set, active communication, and willingness to understand a future M could be great. In your mind, all this undesirable change and lifestyle change provokes an insecurity in you that you can't even begin to imagine, for you're future, your kids, your family and life.

Complacency, distractions, resentments, comparisons, money, difference of opinion, your self worth, theirs, expectations (realistic or unrealistic) trust, lack of follow through, provisions, considerations, attitude, etc. All are wants and needs and are relationship killers. We live in a microwave culture where it's right now, quick, entitled, disposable, unsatisfied, ungrateful, neglected, misunderstood, me, me, me. I want I want I want, I deserve I deserve I deserve.

Let me guess?  As a guy? The only thing that is probably going through your mind when you walk through that door every day is something like this?: Hi. Are the kids fed, Im hungry what's for dinner? Are the bills paid? Will I get few hours to relax to watch baseball and spend time with the kids? Peace quiet and freedom. Can I help with anything dear?  I have a report tomorrow I have to finish and papers and lesson plans to grade. I'm in the mood tonight. Am I going to get any? I have to clean/mow the lawn, fix the pool, attend PTA, come up with the plan vacation, etc. do do do go to go... If you had a bad day and it has nothing to do with them, They take it personally. (Your grumpy) If they have a bad day, you take it personally. Arguments, $hit tests, logic vs. reasoning, misunderstandings, nagging, criticalness, insensitivity, invalidating, desire to cheat, demands, continuous violation of boundaries, unsolicited advice, power struggles, all these things both sides are guilty of and we never see their side until its too late. So learn ftom it. I know this is hard to accept but she will never love you unconditionally for you and vice versa. Romantic relationships have performance conditions. Just the way it is.

Is it any wonder why we all feel neglected and think we can do, deserve better? Welcome to life in the 21st century. Its hard to make time to keep the spark going which they rely on to maintain feelings for you, and have appreciation and value.

You see? In the beginning the courtship was exciting, the newness was exciting, the thought that it would always remain the same when you got married was a prospect. They emotionally  wanted to marry you and you them. The honeymoon phase. But tgthenen the trials of life and test of commitment really reared its ugly head. I bet the first 3 to 5 years of being married were great. Then around the 6th or 7th year real life set in. Family issues health issues, self esteem issues, money issues, etc. This is where real commitment comes in. A lot of people today have been conditioned to quit and move on if something isn't serving them. To start over and rebuild if they're not feeling it. To question compatibility, etc. Its human nature to serve our own interests. I bet you felt as though around a certain time in the marriage you've got a bait and switch scenario. Men marry for personality, sex and children. Women marry for resources, children, and social status. One is practical the other is emotional. I think a lot of them don't want to be tied down in late 30's early 40's because they want to do more with their lives other than be a mother, wife, worker, etc. Hence the MLC. We are both losing our youth and questioning what we have done with our lives and where it is going? Its short sighted at best. That's why they change their minds much later if they ever do.

My advise. Get red pilled on relationships today. Watch for the red flags. Learn from your mistakes, correct them, and use them to better yourself, avoid the pitfalls you fell into, setup a new life for yourself (You can't wallow in negative change that is not benefiting you any longer.) detach, self differentiate, grow, move forward. Learn more about the opposite sex, current times and trends, try not to let it make you bitter, forgive them and yourself, give you and them time and space as feelings change. Realize just how different we all think individually and how the opposite think. There are generalizations to look for but there are also individual characteristics to that we are unique. Again learn learn learn and try and keep it balanced. Don't let it make you bitter. They validate abd justify their side, we validate and justify ours. Somewhere we have to learn to view the world through the other side's lense to really understand one another and why we do, act, feel, what we do.

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LH19 is right take accountability and responsibility for your own decisions and actions. Realize what got you here in the first place and change them. It's one thing to realize what outside influences can impact things it's another thing to realize how you play a role in things directly we can't shift the blame on to outside influences all the time. We are only responsible for our own choices thoughts and decisions

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Well I guess you guys are right. None of us should ever get in another relationship again because someone on FB is always going to have a better one.

Google: Abundance vs Lack mentality


M:51 W:46
T:22 M:16
S:15 D:11

�Happiness equals reality minus expectations�- Magliozzi
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Thanks LH,

I was going to type something out but that sums it up.

Wolfman, I think you might be well served to work on detachment from these things you mentioned that are bothering you. In time (several months) you may start to see things differently and you will be happier.


H 34
W 29
BD 3/12/18
Divorce Busted Spring 19

It is not things that bother us, but the stories we tell ourselves about things.
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